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Federico Folchi

How were the Documents written?

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(IMO)I tend to disagree that you have to have had alot of religous experience in order to connect to the U.B or to be born of spirit. I think it's easy for anyone, no matter how dense you have been your whole life. Said Jesus

You have a saying that it is ‘easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for the heathen to inherit eternal life.’ And I declare that it is as easy for this camel to go through the needle’s eye as for these self-satisfied rich ones to enter the kingdom of heaven.”
1803.4
) 163:3.2 When Peter and the apostles heard these words, they were astonished exceedingly, so much so that Peter said: “Who then, Lord, can be saved? Shall all who have riches be kept out of the kingdom?” And Jesus replied: “No, Peter, but all who put their trust in riches shall hardly enter into the spiritual life that leads to eternal progress. But even then, much which is impossible to man is not beyond the reach of the Father in heaven; rather should we recognize that with God all things are possible.”

 

 

(IMO)I think if you study the science of U.B you will see it is a divine revelation, the only missunderstanding's are man made from scientist's who have made initial assumption's that completely differ from the U.B. But the evidence of truth in the u.b is mounting and slowly it is proving itself and one day it will win over the people. Said jesus

in an age to come the gospel which I declare to you will rule this very world

 

 

(IMO) You can know that the U.B is a revelation, it slowly re-shape's your mind but you to initially buy into it being what it say's it is for it to re-shape your thought's. haha I know that sounds bad -like you are being brainwashed- but essentially that is what I believe is happening. Perhaps I would call it more of a self-identification with the cosmo's and this self-identification helps the cosmic factor's that are working in your mind to experience a reality response to the 5th epochal revelation. Cosmic Mind as people have read in the book does take time though, spiritual advancement can be much quicker but mindal advancement seem's to require a steady progress. (IMO)

Edited by boomshuka

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(IMO) You can know that the U.B is a revelation, it slowly re-shape's your mind but you to initially buy into it being what it say's it is for it to re-shape your thought's. haha I know that sounds bad -like you are being brainwashed- but essentially that is what I believe is happening. Perhaps I would call it more of a self-identification with the cosmo's and this self-identification helps the cosmic factor's that are working in your mind to experience a reality response to the 5th epochal revelation. Cosmic Mind as people have read in the book does take time though, spiritual advancement can be much quicker but mindal advancement seem's to require a steady progress. (IMO)

 

I confess that my immediate draw towards TUB is that it confirmed something that I had already thought of and was wondering if it could be true. The idea was already in my mind. Since we all share mind, I believe that these ideas are in many minds, not just mine. If we believe that there is a superior intelligence out there operating at a higher level of mind, and that our minds (in general) are beginning to evolve to the point where we are impinging upon a new level of thought, it makes sense to me that those superior intellects would opt to guide human thought in that direction in a way that does not upset the cosmic order. Why they chose TUB, or even did they choose TUB as a mechanism of potential guidance, I really don't know for sure. All I can say is that much of the things I find revelatory in TUB had already begun to take root in my mind long before I read it.

 

I believe this is how it works. You recognize truth in TUB because you have already become aware of it in your own mind. You may not be able to put it into words or workable concepts, but the seeds are there none the less. TUB, at least for me, has given me the symbolic substrate on which that seed can grow and blossom into workable concepts within my mind. Are they 100% accurate and infallible? No, I don't think so because we each interpret what we read differently based upon our genetic and cultural heritage as well as personal experience which we apply to that germinating seed. Everyone's experience and personality brings something different to the table, which is what makes the study of the text with others so rewarding.

 

But that aside. I believe that we have reached a point where old symbols and myths no longer work. To me, TUB is an extension of the old symbols and myths adapted for the current level of human mind (at least in some), designed in such a way to gently foster evolution to the next level of collective mind functioning. Somewhere in the commission reports (quoted below), it says that it was decided to publish the book in order to make it available for "those who are ready". Meaning to me, those who are ready to evolve beyond the current level of human thought, those in whom the seeds have been planted, those who would recognize the ideas in TUB because they were already present in their minds and beginning to grow.

 

"The book belongs to the era immediately to follow the conclusion of the present ideological struggle. That will be the day when men will be willing to seek truth and righteousness. When the chaos of the present confusion has passed it will be more readily possible to formulate the cosmos of a new and improved era of human relationships. You are in association with a revelation of truth which is part of the natural evolution of religion on this world. ...Over-rapid growth would be suicidal. ...The book is being given to those who are ready for it long before the day of its world-wide mission. ...An early publication of the book has been provided so that it may be in hand for the training of leaders and teachers. Thousands of study groups must be brought into existence and the book must be translated into many tongues. Thus will the book be in readiness when the battle for man's liberty is finally won and the world is once more made safe for the religion of Jesus and the freedom of mankind."

 

It scares me to think that the final battle for man's liberty has yet to be won, but the above suggests that it is not far off on the horizon. My guess is, if the above is true and if you recognize truth and ideas with value in TUB, it's because you're part of the overall plan to evolve the human race towards the ideals that Jesus taught when he was here two thousand years ago. That's just a guess. So, if you're drawn to TUB, it must be because there is someone or something within your soul drawing you to it. The spirit can draw, but it cannot force you to partake of any of it. That is your choice altogether. Some are more easily accepting of this idea than others. I don't think that Jesus chose a doubting apostle for nothing. We are all influenced by our doubts to one degree or another.

 

146:3.4 And Jesus said to Thomas: “Your assurance that you have entered into the kingdom family of the Father, and that you will eternally survive with the children of the kingdom, is wholly a matter of personal experience — faith in the word of truth. Spiritual assurance is the equivalent of your personal religious experience in the eternal realities of divine truth and is otherwise equal to your intelligent understanding of truth realities plus your spiritual faith and minus your honest doubts.
Edited by Bonita

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146:3.4 And Jesus said to Thomas: “Your assurance that you have entered into the kingdom family of the Father, and that you will eternally survive with the children of the kingdom, is wholly a matter of personal experience — faith in the word of truth. Spiritual assurance is the equivalent of your personal religious experience in the eternal realities of divine truth and is otherwise equal to your intelligent understanding of truth realities plus your spiritual faith and minus your honest doubts.

 

As a reader, one who is reading from the sidelines of this conversation, I am fascinated to see how this topic is unfolding. I appreciate what each of you have added, but most especially I appreciate Todd and what he has added. I am always interested to read your comments, Todd. You are smart and articulate. You have knowledge and logic. You have persistence too, as evidenced by your continuing willingness to discuss various topics with us. I'm of the opinion that you're doing just fine with the point of view you have.

 

Todd

 

I don't see it as a problem at all to want evidence for one's beliefs. On the contrary, I think this is the responsible way to use the intellects that we are endowed with. I think all of us, myself included, are far too willing to believe all manner of things on the basis of scanty evidence.

 

And I'm glad you're willing to share your thoughts here, in spite of the fact that your're talking to believers. As a believer myself, I'm interested to know more about what makes you tick. To me it appears you are straddling the fence, so to speak, neither "believing", even if it is spiritually appealing, nor, having the "confidence of materialists" - my understanding of what you said below:

 

Todd

I don't know if that other world is there or not and I don't find it within myself to believe in it just because it's somehow spiritually appealing to me. It hasn't been revealed to me. It would be simple enough to pack it in and say enough's enough, but I'm not comfortable with that either. The confidence of materialists is just as perplexing to me as the confidence of the faithful.

 

I am really curious to know more about you in whatever manner you present yourself. As for the faithful? We tell our stories not to convince unbelievers, but for the mutual satisfaction of believers!

 

You can argue over opinions about God, but experience with him and in him exists above and beyond all human controversy and mere intellectual logic. The God-knowing man describes his spiritual experiences, not to convince unbelievers, but for the edification and mutual satisfaction of believers.
P. 30 - §5

 

Maybe you are interested to know what makes "believers" tick.

 

All the best to you,

Meredith

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Yea Todd you are an intellegent and thoughfull person, most new reader's I have been finding lately seem to be sort of like me a -little odd-. Hahaha so it's good to meet people on these forum's who are intellegent and knowledgeable. I don't pretend to know more or be more spiritually advanced than anyone else, I am just trying trying to make it into the kigndom of heaven and experience sonship with god, in a way I don't even really feel like I need to read the U.B for the rest of my life. I just like coming on these forums once in a while to hear new opinion's about the u.b.

 

As far as what makes me tick, I get irritable when I hear Uranta reader's fall into delusion's of grandure. Considering we are the "least of all creation" it seem's kind of silly. Either than that, I don't get annoyed by to much.

 

I don't mind that people don't believe in the Urantia Book though, if I did I would have no friends in life haha.

Edited by boomshuka

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And I'm glad you're willing to share your thoughts here, in spite of the fact that your're talking to believers. As a believer myself, I'm interested to know more about what makes you tick. To me it appears you are straddling the fence, so to speak, neither "believing", even if it is spiritually appealing, nor, having the "confidence of materialists" - my understanding of what you said below:

 

Sitting on the fence is not the most comfortable spot, but you get used to it. Not to turn this whole thread into a discussion of my spiritual development, or lack thereof, I can only say that the question "How were the documents written?" is one that I cannot ignore. I thought I was done with the UB some years back, yet here I am again. To answer the question "How were the documents written" is to answer the question of what they in fact are.

 

Who doesn't like a good mystery?

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Maybe you are interested to know what makes "believers" tick.

 

I know my share of believers--UB believers and others. I've witnessed conversions in people I knew well. I've also read many accounts of conversions, including this one, and this one, in order to hear it from people who think and talk the way I do.

 

So yes, I'm always interested!

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