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Federico Folchi

How were the Documents written?

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There are more than a few living philosophers of formidable ability who are Christians and/or believers in God. Probably none of them would assert that the existence of God can be proven, since philosophers have a pretty clear idea of what the requirements of proof are. But many have argued, and continue to argue, that the existence of God is indeed "plausible to philosophy". One of the best of these philosophers is Alvin Plantinga, a Christian of the Dutch Reformed school, currently at Notre Dame. I've met him, read many of his books, and attended papers given by him on a number of occasions. He is a superbly gifted philosopher.

 

Anyone who is interested in seeing what contemporary philosophy looks like, as practiced by one of the best in the contemporary world, who is also deeply Christian in outlook, might enjoy reading some of his papers Papers by Plantinga.

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Guest rich.sachs

75:1.1 The Adamic mission on experimental, rebellion-seared, and isolated Urantia was a formidable undertaking. And the Material Son and Daughter early became aware of the difficulty and complexity of their planetary assignment. Nevertheless, they courageously set about the task of solving their manifold problems. But when they addressed themselves to the all-important work of eliminating the defectives and degenerates from among the human strains, they were quite dismayed. They could see no way out of the dilemma, and they could not take counsel with their superiors on either Jerusem or Edentia. Here they were, isolated and day by day confronted with some new and complicated tangle, some problem that seemed to be unsolvable.

 

106:9.3 Time, space, and experience are man’s greatest aids to relative reality perception and yet his most formidable obstacles to complete reality perception. Mortals and many other universe creatures find it necessary to think of potentials as being actualized in space and evolving to fruition in time, but this entire process is a time-space phenomenon which does not actually take place on Paradise and in eternity. On the absolute level there is neither time nor space; all potentials may be there perceived as actuals.

 

i took a real brief look at alvin plantiga's writing, definitely not my bent in terms of reading material.

 

There are more than a few living philosophers of formidable ability who are Christians and/or believers in God. Probably none of them would assert that the existence of God can be proven, since philosophers have a pretty clear idea of what the requirements of proof are. But many have argued, and continue to argue, that the existence of God is indeed "plausible to philosophy". One of the best of these philosophers is Alvin Plantinga, a Christian of the Dutch Reformed school, currently at Notre Dame. I've met him, read many of his books, and attended papers given by him on a number of occasions. He is a superbly gifted philosopher.

 

Anyone who is interested in seeing what contemporary philosophy looks like, as practiced by one of the best in the contemporary world, who is also deeply Christian in outlook, might enjoy reading some of his papers Papers by Plantinga.

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i took a real brief look at alvin plantiga's writing, definitely not my bent in terms of reading material.

 

Yes, it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea. But I think that many people, when they hear the word "philosophy", think of a discipline that is mainly about scrutinizing the texts of guys who have been dead for centuries. And in fact there is a certain amount of that in academic philosophy, but many don't realize that philosophy is an ongoing, living discipline. Indeed, Plantinga's work is in the branch of philosophy called metaphysics, but that word, which has been in philosophical use since Aristotle, has also been corrupted a bit, so that the "metaphysics" section of a modern bookstore has books on healing crystals, reincarnation, astral travel, and so on, instead of books on metaphysics!

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Hey Todd I have been meaning to ask you since Philo was a philosopher what do you think of his writing's? Philo is very highly regarded by the U.B.

 

Also just food for thought, I don't know whether this is true or not, but I talk to a man in his 80's threw email who has been reading the u.b for over 50 year's and he knew someone "allegedly" hahah who was apart of the contact group. He said that first contact actually happened around 1905 and the paper's were slowly put together aftewards. Of coarse this is just talking to someone threw email's so for all I know he could be making that up hahah.

 

Also we are a expirimental world, so I am not sure what exactly human's are capable of, though I have researched alot of alleged channeling's and things of that nature and I found them all rather disturbing hahaha. But how was paul of tarsus able to view the mansion world substance???..and how was it that so many human's became aware of jesus arrival ie. the man who spoke to the 3 wise men. How was it that so many prophet's knew so precisley about lucifer....How is it that a divine being can make himself known to a human being?...

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Hey Todd I have been meaning to ask you since Philo was a philosopher what do you think of his writing's? Philo is very highly regarded by the U.B.

 

Also just food for thought, I don't know whether this is true or not, but I talk to a man in his 80's threw email who has been reading the u.b for over 50 year's and he knew someone "allegedly" hahah who was apart of the contact group. He said that first contact actually happened around 1905 and the paper's were slowly put together aftewards. Of coarse this is just talking to someone threw email's so for all I know he could be making that up hahah.

 

I don't know much about Philo. He's historically important as a commentator on the early Christian period but not regarded as an important philosopher. He blended elements of Plato and Stoicism.

 

As for the early Contact sessions...it's just a shame they didn't put them on YouTube...

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I don't know much about Philo. He's historically important as a commentator on the early Christian period but not regarded as an important philosopher. He blended elements of Plato and Stoicism.

 

As for the early Contact sessions...it's just a shame they didn't put them on YouTube...

 

Philo of Alexandria, and his brother; a few examples from the UBook:

 

UB (1010.1) 92:5.13 5. The first century after Christ. As a religious teacher, Jesus of Nazareth started out with the cult which had been established by John the Baptist and progressed as far as he could away from fasts and forms. Aside from Jesus, Paul of Tarsus and Philo of Alexandria were the greatest teachers of this era. Their concepts of religion have played a dominant part in the evolution of that faith which bears the name of Christ

 

UB (1338.6) 121:6.3 Though the Hellenized Jewish beliefs were very little influenced by the teachings of the Epicureans, they were very materially affected by the philosophy of Plato and the self-abnegation doctrines of the Stoics. The great inroad of Stoicism is exemplified by the Fourth Book of the Maccabees; the penetration of both Platonic philosophy and Stoic doctrines is exhibited in the Wisdom of Solomon. The Hellenized Jews brought to the Hebrew scriptures such an allegorical interpretation that they found no difficulty in conforming Hebrew theology with their revered Aristotelian philosophy. But this all led to disastrous confusion until these problems were taken in hand by Philo of Alexandria, who proceeded to harmonize and systemize Greek philosophy and Hebrew theology into a compact and fairly consistent system of religious belief and practice. And it was this later teaching of combined Greek philosophy and Hebrew theology that prevailed in Palestine when Jesus lived and taught, and which Paul utilized as the foundation on which to build his more advanced and enlightening cult of Christianity.

 

UB (1433.4) 130:3.9 Among the many men with whom Gonod transacted business was a certain Jewish banker, Alexander, whose brother, Philo, was a famous religious philosopher of that time. Philo was engaged in the laudable but exceedingly difficult task of harmonizing Greek philosophy and Hebrew theology. Ganid and Jesus talked much about Philo’s teachings and expected to attend some of his lectures, but throughout their stay at Alexandria this famous Hellenistic Jew lay sick abed.

 

I found a few good writings about Philo many years ago, but today a lot might be found about him!

The following link is a representative example:

 

http://www.iep.utm.edu/philo/

 

Thus Philo produced a synthesis of both traditions developing concepts for future Hellenistic interpretation of messianic Hebrew thought, especially by Clement of Alexandria, Christian Apologists like Athenagoras, Theophilus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, and by Origen. He may have influenced Paul, his contemporary, and perhaps the authors of the Gospel of John (C. H. Dodd) and the Epistle to the Hebrews (R. Williamson and H. W. Attridge). In the process, he laid the foundations for the development of Christianity in the West and in the East, as we know it today. Philo’s primary importance is in the development of the philosophical and theological foundations of Christianity. The church preserved the Philonic writings because Eusebius of Caesarea labeled the monastic ascetic group of Therapeutae and Therapeutrides, described in Philo’s The Contemplative Life, as Christians, which is highly unlikely. Eusebius also promoted the legend that Philo met Peter in Rome. Jerome (345-420 C.E.) even lists him as a church Father.

 

Philo’s brother, Alexander, was a wealthy, prominent Roman government official, a custom agent responsible for collecting dues on all goods imported into Egypt from the East. He donated money to plate the gates of the temple in Jerusalem with gold and silver. He also made a loan to Herod Agrippa I, grandson of Herod the Great. Alexander’s two sons, Marcus and Tiberius Julius Alexander were involved in Roman affairs. Marcus married Bernice, the daughter of Herod Agrippa I, who is mentioned in Acts (25:13, 23; 26:30).

 

I therefore find that the UB info about both Philo and his brother the Jewish banker, Alexander are both relevant and verified by modern research!

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Here is a few gem's from Philo's writing's...Melchizedek is mentioned by Philo, the first-century Jewish philosopher of Alexandria, in three writings (Legum Allegoriae 3.79-82; De Congressu 89; De Abrahamo 235).

 

"

Morever God made Melchizedeck the king of peace, that is, of Salem, for that is the interpretation of his name "his own high priest". xiv 18, without having previously mentioned any particular action of his, but merely because he made him a king, and a lover of peace and especially worthy of his priesthood. For he is a just king, and a king the opposite of a tyrant, because the one is the interprtaor of the law, and the other lawlessness".

 

"But Melchizedek shall bring forward wine instead of water, and shall give your souls a drink, and shall cheer them with unmixed wine in order that they be wholly occupied with a divine intoxication more sober than sobriety itself,. For reason is a priest having as its inheritance the true god, and entertaing lofty and sublime magnificant ideas about him, for he the priest of the Most High God".

 

Philo of Alexandria (Allegorical Interpretation, III.79–82)

 

79 Melchizedek, too, has God made both king of peace, for that is the meaning of “Salem,” and His own priest. He has not fashioned beforehand any deed of his, but produces him to begin with as such a king, peaceable and worthy of His own priesthood. For he is entitled “the righteous king,” and a “king” is a thing at enmity with a despot, the one being the author of laws, the other of lawlessness. 80 So mind, the despot, decrees for both soul and body harsh and hurtful decrees working grievous woes, conduct, I mean, such as wickedness prompts, and free indulgence of the passions. But the king in the first place resorts to persuasion rather than decrees, and in the next place issues directions such as to enable a vessel, the living being I mean, to make life’s journey successfully, piloted by the good pilot, who is right principle. 81 Let the despot’s title therefore be ruler of war, the king’s prince of peace, of Salem, and let him offer to the soul food full of joy and gladness; for he brings bread and wine, things which the Ammonites and Moabites refused to supply … 82 But let Melchizedek instead of water offer wine, and give to souls strong drink, that they may be seized by a divine intoxication, more sober than sobriety itself. For he is a priest, even Reason, having as his portion Him that is, and all his thoughts of God are high and vast and sublime: for he is priest of the Most High… [Loeb]

 

 

 

And the sacred, scripture which was written after the prayer's on occasion of victory, which mechizedek, who had recieved a self-instructed and self-taught priesthood, makes, say's " for he gave him a tenth of all things'.

 

Who then is the cheif buttler of god? The priest who offer's libations to him, the truly great high priest, who having recieved a draught of everlasting grace offers himself in return pouring an entire libation of unmixed wine. But the high priest we are speaking of is a perfect man, the husband of a virgin.

 

And when the great high priest of the mighty God beheld him returning".....

and the story goes on..hahaha Edited by boomshuka

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Here is a few gem's from Philo's writing's...Melchizedek is mentioned by Philo, the first-century Jewish philosopher of Alexandria, in three writings (Legum Allegoriae 3.79-82; De Congressu 89; De Abrahamo 235).

 

"and the story goes on..hahaha

 

I’m really interested in the cause of your laughter! Could you explain why you express this irony? The theme is interesting.

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I’m really interested in the cause of your laughter! Could you explain why you express this irony? The theme is interesting.

 

I am joyed to read those quote's from Philo about Melkezedeck, I find these 2 individual's extremely interesting and to see philo write about him make's me happy :D. Perhap's a big smiley face would have expressed my mood better :D. I definitely was not laughing out of irony , though I see how it would look like that :).

Edited by boomshuka

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Guest rich

let me try to bring up some philo search engine finds and make a comment on them if i can. from a perusal of them it's hard for me to comment on anything than higher beings thought in the ub.

 

121:6.4 philo was a great teacher; not since Moses had there lived a man who exerted such a profound influence on the ethical and religious thought of the Occidental world. In the matter of the combination of the better elements in contemporaneous systems of ethical and religious teachings, there have been seven outstanding human teachers: Sethard, Moses, Zoroaster, Lao-tse, Buddha, philo, and Paul.

 

sethard isn't mentioned anywhere else in the book, i've never heard of him like the rest of these well-known teachers.

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Todd;

 

Going back to early May where you entered a couple of postings on this thread regarding "validity" of information contained within the Urantia Book.

 

If we consider the words of Jesus, quoted below, it may well be impossible to ever receive divine information which is 100% absolute and perfectly pure.

 

Paper 159.4.8 Jesus speaking to Nathaniel

 

"Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it"

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let me try to bring up some philo search engine finds and make a comment on them if i can. from a perusal of them it's hard for me to comment on anything than higher beings thought in the ub.

 

121:6.4 philo was a great teacher; not since Moses had there lived a man who exerted such a profound influence on the ethical and religious thought of the Occidental world. In the matter of the combination of the better elements in contemporaneous systems of ethical and religious teachings, there have been seven outstanding human teachers: Sethard, Moses, Zoroaster, Lao-tse, Buddha, philo, and Paul.

 

sethard isn't mentioned anywhere else in the book, i've never heard of him like the rest of these well-known teachers.

 

 

 

Rich,

 

Perhaps they refer to the last great teacher of the Second Epoch, Seth?

 

P.849 - §7 The religious rulers, or priesthood, originated with Seth, the eldest surviving son of Adam and Eve born in the second garden. He was born one hundred and twenty-nine years after Adam's arrival on Urantia. Seth became absorbed in the work of improving the spiritual status of his father's people, becoming the head of the new priesthood of the second garden. His son, Enos, founded the new order of worship, and his grandson, Kenan, instituted the foreign missionary service to the surrounding tribes, near and far.

The Sethite priesthood was a threefold undertaking, embracing religion, health, and education. The priests of this order were trained to officiate at religious ceremonies, to serve as physicians and sanitary inspectors, and to act as teachers in the schools of the garden.

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Todd;

 

Going back to early May where you entered a couple of postings on this thread regarding "validity" of information contained within the Urantia Book.

 

If we consider the words of Jesus, quoted below, it may well be impossible to ever receive divine information which is 100% absolute and perfectly pure.

 

Paper 159.4.8 Jesus speaking to Nathaniel

 

"Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it"

 

The question, then, is whether the fallibility of the UB should be understood in terms of actual errors in content, or failure to express adequately the concepts being presented.

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probably, i know of no other famous seth's. i guess it would be interesting to know that his full name is sethard, of course why not use sethard back in this quote? eh, conjecture - the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

 

Rich,

 

Perhaps they refer to the last great teacher of the Second Epoch, Seth?

 

P.849 - §7 The religious rulers, or priesthood, originated with Seth, the eldest surviving son of Adam and Eve born in the second garden. He was born one hundred and twenty-nine years after Adam's arrival on Urantia. Seth became absorbed in the work of improving the spiritual status of his father's people, becoming the head of the new priesthood of the second garden. His son, Enos, founded the new order of worship, and his grandson, Kenan, instituted the foreign missionary service to the surrounding tribes, near and far.

The Sethite priesthood was a threefold undertaking, embracing religion, health, and education. The priests of this order were trained to officiate at religious ceremonies, to serve as physicians and sanitary inspectors, and to act as teachers in the schools of the garden.

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I was under the impression that the lure of TUB is the fact that it did not pass through a conscious human mind and therefore contains little or no of the aforementioned partiality or impurity which is caused by contamination with "animal-level mind".

 

In that quote, Jesus was explaining scripture to Nathaniel. Scripture is inspired and TUB is not inspired. Meaning . . . scripture is created by the inspired human mind as it attempts to express its partial consciousness of the divine which is inspiring it.

 

101:4.2 Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve.

 

88:2.10 To become fetishes, words had to be considered inspired, and the invocation of supposed divinely inspired writings led directly to the establishment of the authority of the church, while the evolution of civil forms led to the fruition of the authority of the state.

 

None of that happened with TUB, which makes it unique, and probably experimental, given our propensity to revere things we think are inspired. The fact that TUB is not inspired can actually make it seem less venerable. Human mind tends to recognize as valid only what is filtered through other human minds. In order to recognize and assimilate TUB truth, one must approach it with something other than the human mind.

 

0:12.13 We are fully cognizant of the difficulties of our assignment; we recognize the impossibility of fully translating the language of the concepts of divinity and eternity into the symbols of the language of the finite concepts of the mortal mind. But we know that there dwells within the human mind a fragment of God, and that there sojourns with the human soul the Spirit of Truth; and we further know that these spirit forces conspire to enable material man to grasp the reality of spiritual values and to comprehend the philosophy of universe meanings. But even more certainly we know that these spirits of the Divine Presence are able to assist man in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience — God-consciousness.

 

There is a difference between inspiration and revelation even though the two may overlap. I presume that revelation is nearly always inspirational whereas inspiration is not always revelatory.

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The question, then, is whether the fallibility of the UB should be understood in terms of actual errors in content, or failure to express adequately the concepts being presented.

 

Since I first became aware of the Urantia Book (in 1971) I have wrestled with finding the answer(s) to that very question, for many years.

What has brought me peace of mind has been the realization that the truths which I have discovered within the book, have greatly overshadowed the mysteries that it still failed to explain.

 

I love the UB for all of the understanding that it has given me; including the words spoken to Nathaniel, where Jesus is essentially saying that I, a human mortal, can not be given 100% of the whole truth. It is just part of the human condition

 

Maybe, one day in the future, a newer and greater revelation will appear, which will fill in many of the "missing pieces" in this great puzzle we call life here on Urantia. And yet, there will probably be some future readers of that great Book, who will discover that somehow there still seem to be things not fully explained.

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Bonita;

 

You sure are one tough cookie to tangle with. The mind of lawyer greatly tempered with a heart of gold.

 

In your last post on this thread, you state that the The Urantia Book did not pass through a "conscious human mind" (my quotations).

 

When Jesus spoke to Nathaniel, he did not mention "conscious" mind or "unconscious" mind. He just said "mind of man"

 

In Paper 110.4.7 it says "The Adjuster of the human being through whom this communication is being made..."

 

In Paper 114.7.7 it says words to the effect that it was through skillful penetration of the human mind, by the Secondary Midwayers in contact with the Thought Adjuster, that the UB was materialized in English on Urantia

 

No matter which way you want to slice it.....you are still left with the fact that the UB was transmitted through humans. Firstly through the mind of the sleeping subject, and then through the work of the human contact commission.

 

These are the facts as conveyed by the UB itself.....and by the fact that Dr. Sadler and the other members of the Contact Commission admitted that they "handled the material" that ultimately ended up as the Urantia Book

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You sure are one tough cookie to tangle with. The mind of lawyer greatly tempered with a heart of gold.

 

I'm not trying to tangle with anyone. I'm putting my ideas out in the public domain for those who are interested in reading them. But, they are certainly open to criticism, having come through a conscious human mind. (Incidentally, I'm not a lawyer, but I sure hope my heart is worthy.)

 

In your last post on this thread, you state that the The Urantia Book did not pass through a "conscious human mind" (my quotations).

 

When Jesus spoke to Nathaniel, he did not mention "conscious" mind or "unconscious" mind. He just said "mind of man"

 

I agree that Jesus did not mention conscious or unconscious. He was talking about scriptures and the scriptures were written by men who were conscious. Unconscious people don't write, unless the sleeping subject did actually write the Papers. And that is the point. The sleeping subject was unconscious. When he awakened and was questioned, he had no memory of the events. When he was hypnotized, there wasn't even unconscious memory of the events. His mind was empty, a clean slate.

 

Now, we know that the secondary midwayers penetrated the mind of this individual and presumably was able to use the vocal chords to speak, similar to the way that the rebel midwayers were able to enter certain minds and force them to do and say things prior to Pentecost.

 

p863:6 77:7.5 But before the days of Christ Michael on Urantia—before the universal coming of the Thought Adjusters and the pouring out of the Master's spirit upon all flesh—these rebel midwayers were actually able to influence the minds of certain inferior mortals and
somewhat to control their actions
.

 

Presumably, the words spoken through the physical mechanism of the sleeping subject were words spoken by the Midwayer, using the Midwayer mind, not the sleeping subject's mind.

 

Moving on to the next point, one has to believe that the Midwayer was saying what he was instructed to say and not that which he created in his own mind. This brings me to my point that the information that culminated in the Papers did not pass through the human mind, only the human body, more or less used as a transmitting machine.

 

If the information also bypassed the Midwayer mind, then it must be much purer and much less partial than anything an inspired human mind could ever create.

 

No matter which way you want to slice it.....you are still left with the fact that the UB was transmitted through humans. Firstly through the mind of the sleeping subject, and then through the work of the human contact commission.

 

These are the facts as conveyed by the UB itself.....and by the fact that Dr. Sadler and the other members of the Contact Commission admitted that they "handled the material" that ultimately ended up as the Urantia Book

 

Yes, transmitted through a human, but not a human mind, just the physical nervous system of a human. And, what I've read is that the contact commission did not alter the material, it only added punctuation. Even so, the revelators have said that TUB is relatively true . . . just like everything else. Only the Creators have infallibility and Jesus didn't write TUB, so yes, it's only relatively true, but a higher truth than anything we've seen so far.

 

And I'm truly sorry if you think I'm tangling with you. I call this a discussion, an exploration of information, a dialogue between interested students, an exchange of ideas . . . . I don't know . . . are you thinking that I'm trying to dictate law here? I don't get it.

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Bonita

I was trying to make a lighthearted remark about how this discussion was becoming such a legalistic type dialogue. I didn't think that you would take it so serious.

 

Actually I enjoy this exchange with you. I enjoy reading your comments.

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As I was saying; I enjoy this discussion about divine revelations and the human touch connected to them.

 

I would first like to repeat something that Jesus said in paper 159 "....nothing that human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible"

 

Now I shall add some facts uncovered by a friend of mine "Ernest P. Moyer" who has written a number of books; but in this case I shall refer to the one entitled "Birth of a Divine Revelation" The Origin of the Urantia Papers copyright year 2000

 

 

Anyways, I will not present all of his findings regarding the "human touches" involved with the UB presentation. Just a quick reference to what happened following the publication of the First Printing of the UB in 1955.

(quick note: I am fortunate to have a First Printing copy of UB once belonged to Timothy O' Leary's wife)

 

After the 1955 UB was published , serious scholars found 19 places where there were known errors and contradictions.

These were pointed out to W. S. Sadler and he had changes made to 8 of these before the second printing was done 12 years later.

 

A few examples of these errors and changes:

 

Paper 41 mentioned in, 1955 copy, reference to density of a nearby sun being sixty thousand times that of our sun.

Second printing had that number sixty changed to forty.

 

Paper 42 mentioned in 1955 copy; nuclear stability as more than 100 electrons are introduced artificially into one atomic system. The result is instantaneous disruption of the central "proton" with wild dispersion.

Second printing the word "well-nigh' was inserted before instantaneous .

 

Paper 123 1955 copy the word "east" changed to "west" regarding the "rocky hills of Moab" for the second printing.

 

Paper 179 1955 printing has Jesus addressing "the twelve" referring to his apostles (after Judas left the room.)

Second printing "twelve' is removed and replaced by "apostles"

 

I could go on with more but I believe that the point has been made. See opening remark about what Jesus said 2000 years ago to Nathaniel.

 

If we take every single word in the UB as being "exactly' as it was conveyed through the "unconscious mind" of the Sleeping Subject, we can be sadly mistaken.

 

It has been touched by human nature and as such it is to be approached with having the "Spirit of Truth" be the judge as to what is Truth for us and what is to be left alone.

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Well in all fariness your copy does not really matter, its the prior copy's and the supposed plated copy that matter's. I could see someone typing a few error's into the 1955 copy though, because of the technology used in those day's. Etleast I was told by sr. reader's of U.B that there is a Plated copy from 1945.

 

I can live with a few error's if that is the case, but I am curious to what the 1945 copy say's, it could be that they reprinted the original text wrong from the 1945 plated copy. The 1945 copy is still in existence so I have been told, not 100 percent if these sr reader's were B.S-ing me though haha.

 

The only real obvous error is this statement. "reference to density of a nearby sun being sixty thousand times that of our sun.

Second printing had that number sixty changed to forty." I have a skepticism about this one being in the 1945 plated copy.

Edited by boomshuka

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I wonder if your copy is the same copy made in 1945?, and I wonder if that is the same copy from 1934....I can live with a few error's if that is the case, but I am curious to what the 1945 copy say's, it could be that they reprinted the original text wrong from the 1945 copy. the 1945 copy is still in existence.

 

To my knowledge, 1955 was the year that the UB was first published. They printed 10,000 copies that year.

 

I have never heard of the UB being printed in 1945. Maybe you are confusing that date with the time that Mr. Kellogg first met with the printing company to arrange for the printing plates to be made. This happened in the 1940's

 

Regarding the errors; don't be concerned with them. Ernest Moyer, who wrote the book I mentioned before; is a firm believer in the Urantia Book, even though he discovered a lot of facts concerning the people involved with the process.

 

Another person, Harold Sherman who was involved with the Urantia Forum, back in the 1940's, also had concerns with the handling of the Urantia Papers in the early days; and yet he believed the information came from divine sources.

Note: Harold and his wife left the forum in 1947 after being members for 5 years (in fact they lived just across the street from the Urantia Book HQ in Chicago) And at that time, 1947, there was still no UB in printed/published form.

If you look at the back of his book "How to Know What to Believe" you will notice that he recommended the Urantia Book. I had the honor of meeting and then keeping in touch with him, before he passed away. He had no problem with me being a UB reader.

 

Bottom line is, even with the flaws, the Urantia Book is still the best source of Spiritual Knowledge on this planet.

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Well I did a quick google search and it appear's that the 5th epochal revelation was finished in 1945 and put on plates during this year and than stored in a vault........ I am curious how this document compares with the 1955 published version. Also there was the proof read paper manuscript before the plated version....

Urantia Foundation was established in 1950 "on the basis of" the plates, (which now constituted the original text). The plates were stored in the vaults of the R.R. Donnelley & Sons Crawfordsville, Indiana plant from approximately 1945 until 1955, when the book was printed. After the printing was completed, they were then returned to the vaults.

 

I wonder why they changed it, did they just recoppy the original plated documents?????...It doesn't make any sense...why would they change such unimportant things in the urantia revelation?!. Like "well-nigh".....

 

Either they messed up in typing during the 1955 version when they copied it from the 1945 plated copy/manuscript, or someone had their own "Revelation" and changed the text because something or someone told them to...

 

hmmm makes me believe that some rebellous midwayer at some point made contact with someone who is involved in the u.b foundation because if the 1945 version the 1955 version and the new version are all different than someone had a huge brainfart, or they had some psycotic episode and changed the text. Human's like to change thing's to their own style, but to change something like the density of a nearby sun implie's they either made a typo or they were told to by something or someone, no one would change that on their own because there is no way they would know if what they are saying is true or not....

 

The story I get was that midwayer's were overseing the entire process untill 1955."The Contact Commission operated under celestial direction, and ceased to function after the publication of the original text in 1955". ...So I am assuming the 1955 copy is right, and the new version is slightly adultered for some uknown reason....I can see comma's and apostrophy's, but what would motivate someone to add in the words "Well Nigh"?!>>. Who gave someone permission to add the words "Well Nigh"?!, and for what reason would they do this?!

 

http://www.divinitywithinus.org/study/AHis...rs/Epilogue.htm

 

The end of proprietorship

 

A History of The Urantia Papers

 

 

 

by Larry Mullins

with Dr. Meredith Justin Sprunger

 

 

 

Many of us who have the conviction that the Urantia Papers belong to the people also believe that, unknown to all of the Trustees at the time, the noble task of Urantia Foundation to preserve inviolate the original text of the Urantia Papers fell into default in 1967. Those responsible for this error were probably driven by the desire to have a "perfect book," as Carolyn Kendall explained. To achieve this human aspiration, these individuals elected to by-pass the Declaration of Trust and "correct" the original text by applying a "quick fix." There was no documentation, no paper trail, no unanimous vote by the Trustees. This impatient act of short-cutting of the appropriate processes eventually resulted in the 1967 default, and has been followed by increasing doubt and confusion among readers.

 

 

 

After Dr. Sadler's death, during the 1970's, the Foundation's original mission of preserving inviolate the original text of the Urantia Papers was supplanted by efforts to establish ownership of the text, ownership of the Banner of Michael, and ownership of the words "Urantia" and "Urantian." Secular enforcement of these claims was supported by alleged "secret mandates" that were never fully disclosed. Rumors surfaced that the last remaining "Contact Commissioner" reported that she was receiving "special messages" from Midwayers. Shortly after her death, Christy's heir-apparent, Vern Grimsley, also claimed to be in contact with celestial beings. More chaos and strife followed, and continues to divide the Urantia believers. And, in my judgment, nearly all of this cascading confusion has been the harvest of a single stupendous error: the taking of an expedient shortcut in an attempt to "correct" and make "perfect" The Urantia Book.

 

 

 

Most of us who believe the Urantia Papers belong to the people contend that there are no "secret messages" or special endowments to justify dishonoring the Declaration of Trust. We believe that the destruction of a substantial number of the plates in 1967 without the unanimous vote of the Trustees was a human error, and was not authorized by "Revelators" or "Midwayers." We do not believe the 92-year old Dr. Sadler had any part in or knowledge of the destruction of part of the Substantive Estate in 1967. We believe attempting to deny or cover-up the error has compounded it. In our judgment, the misguided actions of a few people have caused untold harm to the spiritual unity of the Urantia Movement. And we believe the fragmenting of the Urantia Movement stems, in large measure, from the false idea of ownership and the application of the unfounded proprietary and commercial "rights" of an entrenched few over a Revelation that in reality belongs to all of the people.

 

Distortion of a Divine Revelation

 

 

 

While the editing team and I were still researching and working on completing this history, yet another new history was published. Birth of a Divine Revelation by Ernest Moyer seeks to put forward several notions within its 600 pages that are so bizarre they need no comment. However, the book also postulates that the Urantia Papers were corrupted by Dr. Sadler, a charge that strikes at the heart of the integrity of the Urantia Revelation, and which cannot remain unanswered.

 

 

 

Each individual has a right to his or her own ideas. However, there is a discipline that is traditionally required of a historian who claims to be presenting reasonable notions to the reader. Like some other efforts by Urantians to write histories, in Birth of a Divine Revelation Moyer mixes pure speculation, undocumented claims, and established facts carelessly and without informing the reader which is which. It is these flaws that make Moyer's Birth of a Divine Revelation more of a collection of curious artifacts and theories than a serious historical work. Mr. Moyer attempts to degrade the personal experience and contributions of Dr. Meredith Sprunger -- and he seeks to cast doubt upon the personal integrity and professional competence of Dr. Sadler. To support his attacks, he uses sources such as Martin Gardner, Harold Sherman and H

Edited by boomshuka

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If anyone wishes to see what the original 1955 UB looks like; just go to the Urantia Book Fellowship Urantia Book Online Study Edition where you can access it online

 

To see something interesting go to Paper 119.7.6 in the original and then open up one of the newer printings since 1967. Compare what it says about the wise men visiting the baby Jesus. From the second printing onward, there are three words missing: "in the manger"

 

The author of paper 119 is a Mighty Messenger

 

Kind of curious as to why it took from 1935 to 1967 to correct something that, if it was so important to remove it, could have been removed anytime during the time period of 1935 to 1945 when the printing plates were made.

 

All in all, it brings us back to what Jesus told Nathaniel back in Paper 159

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I talk to a very private man in his 80's who had a friend in the forum and his story matches up with other published work from forum member's. For someone to change the material in 1967 they either would do so A) because they noticed a typo in the 1955 version via looking at the original manuscript and or Plates. Or B ) Where "allegedly" told by some external force by their Imaginition or percieved revelator's. To just whimsically add the word's "Well-Nigh" because it feel's right does not make any sense whatsoever. I cannot imagine any self motivated reason to do so in that sentence, someone must have been either decieved or reading the original manuscript/plates.

 

Since there is no documentation to give a rhyme or reason why they made change's in 1967 it would seem as though they did not use the plate's or original manuscript. Than they must have perceived that some divine force actually wanted them to make these changes in 1967, perhaps someone or some people had what they interpreted as divine contact at this point and used that as a motive.

 

Clearly though from what my friend told me and the published accounts from forum member's after the plates were plated in 1945 the midwayer's continued to monitor the revelation and the forum untill 1955 when it was finally published and than they finally "signed off". It would appear the revelator's made sure the revelation made its way threw as it was intended and that no bonehead could screw it up even if he tried to. Though of coarse 1967 is off limits.....

 

A side note my friend told me that the midwayer's were very interested in how the forum understood the material and were wanting them to understand the material before they released it in 1955. Though this could just be speculation I dont know.

 

Also I have read and was told that first contact happened in 1905, so for diety to be present from 1905 till 1955 it would appear as though they were taking all precaution's, unfortunetly they should have had someone stick around untill 1967 hahaha.

 

I think the reason it took from 1935 untill 1967 to correct a change was because human's had to wait untill after the first publication's to make change's to the revelation because the midwayer's were present with the forum untill the first published book's in 1955. The U.B's entire purpose is for the " authoritative elimination of error". This does not prove that there are any error's in the u.b, all this proves is that some bonehead changed the u.b in 1967 probably because he was hearing voice's that he interpreted as midwayer's.

 

The U.B is definitely incomplete, but so far there are no error's. Obviously though with the 1967 version we may encounter a few, but because the U.B has been adultered and admitidly so in 1967 than the argument of mistakes based on those change's is erronous. Untill someone proves errors in the 1955 version the book is still 100 percent accurate within the domain of what it is saying. Human's cannot get infallibility but we can achieve perfection "be you perfect even as your father is" and within the scope of what U.B is saying it is perfect.

Edited by boomshuka

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