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Federico Folchi

How were the Documents written?

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Hi sisters and brothers!

I would like to ask if anyone knows the right place to get the information of all the process which took I think 20 years in total. I would like to know if there is an official story of how Dr. Sadler and his team accomplished their mission.

Thanks

Hugs

Fede

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Hi sisters and brothers!

I would like to ask if anyone knows the right place to get the information of all the process which took I think 20 years in total. I would like to know if there is an official story of how Dr. Sadler and his team accomplished their mission.

Thanks

Hugs

Fede

 

Hi Fede, I looked up "Dr. Sadler" in my "Google-my-own-gmail" feature,

and found this sent from www.urantia.org by our good friend, Rick, who said,

 

"Below is an article from Urantia Foundation's website on the movement's

early days. It was composed by the humans who midwived the revelation.

It is a supreme irony that the central known character in the reception

of the revelation was himself a debunker of such phenomenon. On the

other hand, it made him an expert in the articulation of its history." -Rick

 

"We never realized how much our religious thinking had been expanded

until the Papers began to arrive. As the Revelation progressed we came

more fully to appreciate how we had been prepared for the vast

alteration of our religious beliefs by these preliminary contacts

extending over a period of twenty years of pre-education."

 

The whole article covers history up to approximately 1960. I want to point

out that there were 20 years of "pre-history" before the actual work of

imparting the URANTIA Papers began. The entire article is too long

to put here, unfortunately, but here is the beginning :

-Ellen ( 1st portion of __ parts )

 

 

A History of the Urantia Movement By Dr. William S. Sadler

 

Several members of this group who participated in the preliminary

"contacts" which led up to the appearance of the Urantia Papers, had

had considerable experience in the investigation of psychic phenomena.

This group early arrived at the conclusion that the phenomena

connected with the personality, who was later associated with the

Urantia Papers, was in no way similar to any other well-known type of

psychic performance - such as hypnosis, automatic writing,

clairvoyance, trances, spirit mediumship, telepathy, or double

personality.

 

It should be made clear that the antecedents of the Urantia Papers

were in no way associated with so-called spiritualism -- with its

seances and supposed communication with spirits

of departed human beings.

 

Contact Activities Preceding The Urantia Papers

 

It would seem that, during these early years, our unseen friends were

engaged in a thoroughgoing testing of the contact personality,

rehearsing the technique of communication, selecting the Contact

Commissioners -- in fact, in a general way -- setting the stage for

the subsequent initiation of the presentation of the "Urantia Papers."

 

During these early years we were introduced to many new and, to us,

somewhat strange concepts of the universe of universes and as

concerned man and his life on earth.

 

Among these numerous new ideas of cosmology and philosophy, the

following may be mentioned:

 

New concept of a far-flung cosmos Millions of other inhabited planets

Introduction to scores of different and varied echelons of celestial

personalities. Confirmation of evolutionary origin of humankind --

even of an evolutionary cosmos. Intimation of multiple Creator

Deities. Tentative testing of our theologic concepts. Patient

determination of how far we might possibly go in the direction of

modifying our theologic beliefs and philosophical opinions. Without

realizing it, over a period of twenty years, our fundamental religious

views and attitudes had been considerably changed. We had been

familiarized with such terms as "The First Source and Center",

"Havona", "superuniverses", and the "Supreme Being" -- but we had but

meager ideas as to the real meaning of these names. We also heard such

words as "Master Spirits", "outer space", and "Power Directors". But,

again, we understood little as to their meaning. We also learned about

numerous orders of angels. We heard about "Thought Adjusters", but our

concept of the meaning of the term was vague and indefinite. We had

acquired a fuzzy concept of the morontia level of existence -- but we

never heard the word "morontia" used until the Papers started. The

midwayers were very real to us -- we frequently talked with them

during our varied "contacts." We quite fully understood that the

secondary midwayers supervised the contacts. We heard some things

about the Lucifer rebellion, but got little information about Adam and

Eve. We gained the impression that there were special reasons for

Jesus' bestowal on Urantia, but we had little or no idea as to the

nature of these unrevealed reasons. We listened to occasional

references to Jesus' life and teachings -- but they were very cautious

about the introduction of any new concepts regarding Michael's Urantia

bestowal. Of all the Urantia Revelation the Jesus Papers were the

biggest surprise. While we did not hear the term "Corps of The

Finality", we did pick up a hazy idea that Paradise might be the

destination of surviving mortals. Our superhuman friends thus spent

upward of two decades in extending our cosmic horizons, enlarging our

theologic concepts, and expanding our over-all philosophy.

 

We never realized how much our religious thinking had been expanded

until the Papers began to arrive. As the Revelation progressed we came

more fully to appreciate how we had been prepared for the vast

alteration of our religious beliefs by these preliminary contacts

extending over a period of twenty years of pre-education.

Our apprenticeship training for subsequent service in association with

the presentation of the Urantia Papers was facilitated by the fact

that, except for contacts with the midwayers, no two contacts were

alike. Seldom did we meet the visiting personalities more than once.

Every contact was entirely different from any and all that had gone

before. And all of this experience was an extensive and liberal

preparatory educational training in the expansion of our cosmology,

theology and philosophy -- not to mention our introduction to new

ideas and concepts concerning a vast array of more mundane objects.

 

The limited discussion of Jesus' life and teachings during these pre-

revelatory contacts might be explained by the fact that the midwayers

were a bit dubious as to how much authority they had in such matters -

- as shown later on when a whole year was consumed in the

clarification of their right to retell the story of the Michael bestowal.

 

Those of us who early attended upon these nocturnal vigils never

suspected that we were in contact with anything supernatural.

 

During these early years, all of our observations and investigations

utterly failed to reveal the technique of reducing messages to writing.

 

(..to be continued..)

 

~ ~ ~ (1st of __ portions of this article -Ellen) ~ ~ ~

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Here is the 2nd portion of the article (see www.urantia.org)

re: Dr. Sadler/history written in approximately 1960:

 

How The Urantia Papers Started

 

After about twenty years of contact experience, an alleged student

visitor, speaking through this sleeping subject during one of these

nocturnal vigils, in answer to one of our questions, said: "If you

only knew what you are in contact with you would not ask such trivial

questions. You would rather ask such questions as might elicit answers

of supreme value to the human race."

 

This was something of a shock, as well as a mild rebuke, and caused

all of us to look upon this unique experience in a new and different

way. Later on that night, one of our number said: "Now they have asked

for it -- let us give them questions that no human being can answer."

 

Now it is best to let matters rest here while we shift this narrative

to a new and different setting.

 

How The Forum Started

 

Dr. William S. Sadler, a member of this early group of observers and

investigators, tells the following story regarding the origin of that

group of interested individuals which later on became known as the

"Forum." He says: "On my way to the University of Kansas to deliver

some lectures on Gestalt psychology, I wrote a letter to my son saying

that I thought doctors should try to maintain some contact with their

old patients. I suggested that he talk with his mother about the

feasibility of inviting some of our old friends to meet with us on Sunday

afternoons for an hour or two of informal discussion and social exchange.

 

When I returned to Chicago one Sunday morning I found that my wife had

invited a group of our old patients to meet at our house that

afternoon at three o'clock. It was the plan to conduct these Sunday

afternoon gatherings somewhat as follows: First have a talk on some

health topic -- such as the treatment of common colds, the cause and

cure of worry, and then, after a cup of tea, engage in informal

discussions -- asking and answering questions.

 

As time passed, this group became a cosmopolitan gathering consisting

of professional men and women -- doctors, lawyers, dentists,

ministers, teachers -- together with individuals from all walks of life.

Farmers, housewives, secretaries, office workers, and common laborers.

 

Introduction Of The Forum To the "Contacts"

 

Presently, I was asked to give a series of talks on "Mental Hygiene,"

or "Psychic Phenomena." At the beginning of my first talk, I said:

"With only or two exceptions, all of the psychic phenomena which I

have investigated have turned out to be either conscious or

unconscious frauds. Some were deliberate frauds -- others were those

peculiar cases in which the performer was a victim of the deceptions

of his own subconscious mind."

 

I had no more than said this when one of the group spoke up, saying,

"Doctor, if you have contacted something which you have been unable to

solve -- it would be interesting -- tell us more about it."

 

I asked Dr. Lena to get some notes she had taken at a recent "contact"

and read them to the group. It should be understood that up to this

time there was no secrecy connected with this case. The Urantia Papers

had not begun to appear.

 

It was at about this time that this group meeting at our house on

Sunday afternoons began to be called the "Forum."

 

The group manifested such a great interest in this case that I never

did get around to giving any of the health talks such as had been planned.

 

It was while these informal discussions were going on from week to

week that the challenge came to us suggesting that if we would ask

more serious questions we might get information of value to all mankind.

 

NEXT: The Forum Begins To Ask Questions

~ ~ ~ ( 2nd of __ portions ) ~ ~ ~

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This is the 3rd portion of __ total, (see www.urantia.org)

re: Dr. Sadler/history written in approximately 1960:

 

(...) The Forum Begins To Ask Questions

 

We told the Forum all about this and invited them to join us

in the preparation of question. We decided to start out with

questions pertaining to the origin of the cosmos, Deity, creation,

and such other subjects as were far beyond the present-day

knowledge of all humankind.

 

The following Sunday several hundred questions were brought in.

We sorted out these questions, discarding duplicates, and in a

general way, classifying them. Shortly thereafter, the first Urantia

Paper appeared in answer to these questions. From first to last,

when the Papers appeared, the questions disappeared.

 

This was the procedure followed throughout the many years of the

reception of the Urantia Papers. No questions -- no Papers.

 

The Forum Becomes a Closed Group

 

About this time, the Forum, as it were, was taken away from us.

We were instructed to form a "closed group" -- requiring each

member to sign a pledge of secrecy and to discuss the Papers

and all matters pertaining thereto with only those persons

who were members of the Forum.

 

Membership tickets were issued and the Charter membership

numbered Thirty. The date of this organization was September,

1925. Seventeen of these Charter Members are still living.

 

The individuals charged with the responsibility of gathering up

the questions and comparing the typewritten text with the

original handwritten manuscript, came to be know as the

"Contact Commissioners." From that date forward

only these Contact Commissioners attended "contacts" and

received written communications through the contact personality.

 

From time to time new members were received into the Forum,

after being interviewed by the officers and after signing the same

pledge that was signed by the original Charter Members.

This pledge read: "We acknowledge our pledge of secrecy,

renewing our promise not to discuss the Urantia Revelations

or their subject matter with any one save active Forum members,

and to take no notes of such matter as is read or discussed

at the public sessions, or make copies or notes

of what we personally read."

 

The last meeting of the Forum as a genetic assembly

was held on May 31st, 1942. During the 17 years of official

existence the Forum attained a total membership of 486.

 

During the period of the reception of the Urantia Papers, upward of

300 different persons participated in asking these genetic questions.

With but few exceptions, all of the Urantia Papers were given in

response to such questions.

 

NEXT: How We Got The Urantia Papers (...)

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Portion 4 of __ portions (see www.urantia.org)

re: Dr. Sadler/history written in approximately 1960:

(bold/color emphasis, mine -Ellen)

 

(...) How We Got The Urantia Papers

 

Just about all that is known or could be told

about the origin of the Urantia Papers is to be found,

here and there, in The Urantia Book. A list of such references

is to be found on the back of the dust jacket of the Book.

 

Let us take a brief look at these citations.

 

Page 1, par. 2.

This passage refers to the difficulty of presenting

expanded spiritual concepts when restricted to circumscribed

human language, such as English.

 

Page 1, par. 4.

An Orvonton Commission participated in

the revelation and prepared this Foreword.

 

Page 17,par. 1.

In presenting this revelation of augmented spiritual values

and universe meanings, more than one thousand human concepts

weredrawn from the minds of human beings of the present and the past.

 

Page 16, par.8 & Page 1343, par. 1.

In all revelation of truth, preference is given to the highest

existing human concepts of ideality and reality. Only in the

absence of the human concept is superhuman knowledge revealed.

 

Page 1109, par. 4.

Revelators are seldom at liberty to anticipate scientific discoveries.

Truth is timeless, but the teachings respecting the physical sciences

and certain phases of cosmology will become partially obsolescent

as a result of the new discoveries of advancing scientific investigations.

The cosmology of the Urantia Revelation is not inspired.

Human wisdom must evolve.

 

Page 215, par. 2-9

Human pedagogy proceeds from the simple to the complex.

The Urantia Revelation begins with the more complex

and goes on to the consideration of the more simple.

Instead of beginning with man reaching up for God, the

Urantia Papers begin with God -- reaching down and finding man.

 

Page 865. par. 6, 7

The narrative of the midwayers function in initiating

and carrying forward to completion the Urantia Revelation.

 

Page 865, par. 2, & Page 1208, par. 7.

Midway creatures are always employed in the phenomenon

of communication with material beings through the technique

of "Contact Personalities." The "subject" through whom the

Urantia Papers were bestowed had a highly experienced

Thought Adjuster. The "subject's" relative indifference and

unconcern regarding the work of his indwelling Adjuster was

in every way favorable to the execution and

completion of this revelatory project.

 

Page 1256, par. 1.

The contact personality was a member of

the Urantia Reserve Corps of Destiny.

This was just one of several conditions favoring

the impartation of the Urantia Revelation.

 

Page 1008, par. 3.

The Urantia Revelation is unique

in that it is presented by multiple authors.

The Urantia Revelation, like its predecessors, is not inspired.

 

Page 32, par.2.

A Divine Counselor "portrays the reality and nature

of the Father with unchallengeable authority."

 

Page 17, par. 2.

The Revelators depend upon the indwelling Adjusters

and the Spirit of Truth to help us in the

appropriation of the truth in the Urantia Revelation.

 

Page 1007, par. 1.

Revelation keeps in touch with evolution. Revelation

is adapted to the age of its bestowal. New revelation maintains

contact with preceding revelations.

 

How We Did Not Get The Urantia Book

 

Recently, a group of ministers from northern Indiana, who were

engaged in studying The Urantia Book, spent the day with us

and, during the evening, Dr. Sadler led a discussion on

"How We Did Not Get The Urantia Book."

 

The following is a gist of that presentation:

 

Several members of this group who participated in the

preliminary "contacts" which led up to the appearance

of the Urantia Papers had considerable experience

in the investigation of psychic phenomena.

 

This group early arrived at the conclusion

that the phenomena connected with the personality

who was later associated with the Urantia Papers,

was in no way similar to any other well- known type

of psychic performance -- such as hypnotism, automatic

writing, clairvoyance, trances, spirit mediumship,

telepathy, or double personality.

 

It should be made clear that the antecedents of

the Urantia Papers were in no way associated

with so-called spiritualism -- with its seances and supposed

communication with the spirits of departed human beings.

 

Psychic Phenomena: Unusual Activities

Of The Marginal Consciousness

The Subconscious Mind

 

1. Automatic Writing

 

2. Automatic Talking

 

a. Speaking in "Tongues"

b. Trance Mediums

c. Spirit Mediums

d. Catalepsy

 

3. Automatic Hearing - Clairaudience

 

a. Hearing "Voices"

 

4. Automatic Seeing

a. Dream States - Twilight Mentation

b. Visions - Automatic Dramatization

c. Hallucinations (Shifty "Reality" Feelings)

 

5. Automatic Thinking

a. Automatic Fearing -- Anxiety Neurosis

b. Automatic Ideation - Mental Compulsions

c. Automatic Judgements - Intuition, "Hunches"

d. Automatic Association of Ideas - Premonitions

e. Automatic Guessing - E.S.P. - Extra-Sensory Perception

f. Automatic Deductions - Delusions - Dreams and Hypnosis

 

6. Automatic Remembering

a. Clairvoyance - Automatic Memory Associations

b. Telepathy - Mind Reading (?) [question mark in original]

c. Fortune Telling (Largely Fraudulent)

d. Musical and Mathematical Marvels

 

7. Automatic Acting

a. Automatic Behavior - (Major Hysteria, Witchcraft.)

b. Automatic Motion - Motor Compulsions

c. Automatic Overdrives - Manic Episodes

d. Automatic Walking - somnambulism

 

8. Automatic Personalization

a. Automatic Forgetting - Amnesia

b. Automatic Dissociation - Double and Multiple Personality

c. Schizophrenia - Split Personality

 

9. Combined and Associated Psychic States

 

Note: The technique of the reception of The Urantia Book in English

in no way parallels or impinges upon any

of the above phenomena of the marginal consciousness. (...)

 

(..TO BE CONTINUED..)

NEXT: Reason For Silence Respecting Details

Of The Origin Of The Urantia Book

 

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Portion 5 of __ portions (see www.urantia.org)

re: Dr. Sadler/history written in approximately 1960:

(bold/color emphasis, mine -Ellen)

 

 

(...)Reason For Silence Respecting Details

Of The Origin Of The Urantia Book

 

Among the several reasons given us

at the time we were requested not to discuss

the details of our personal experiences

associated with the origin of The Urantia Book,

the two major reasons were the following:

 

1. Unknown Features.

There is much connected

with the appearance of the Urantia Papers

which no human being fully understands.

None of us really knows

just how this phenomenon was executed.

There are numerous missing links

in our understanding of how this revelation

came to appear in written English.

 

If any one of us should tell any one

all he really knows about the technique and methods

employed throughout the years of our getting this Revelation,

such a narration would satisfy no one -- there are

too many missing links.

 

2. The main reason for not revealing

the identity of the "Contact Personality" is that

the Celestial Revelators do not want any human

being -- any human name -- ever to be associated

with The Urantia Book. They want this revelation

to stand on its own declarations and teachings.

 

They are determined

that future generations shall have the book

wholly free from all mortal connections -- they

do not want a Saint Peter,

Saint Paul, Luther, Calvin or Wesley.

The book does not even bear the

imprint of the printer who brought the book into being.

 

Remember: You could appreciate a good poem -- even if

you did not know the author. Likewise, you could

enjoy a symphony even if you were

ignorant of the composer. (...)

 

(TO BE CONTINUED)

NEXT: The First Urantia Papers

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Ellen

Thank you very much for all the info you are giving us. I knew some of this things which are in the spanish forum. But I woul like to ask you: The documents were delivered during those 20 years? I mean, were they delivered at the begining or at the end of those 20 years?

Thanks and hugs.

Fede

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Ellen

Thank you very much for all the info you are giving us. I knew some of this things which are in the spanish forum. But I woul like to ask you: The documents were delivered during those 20 years? I mean, were they delivered at the begining or at the end of those 20 years?

Thanks and hugs.

Fede

 

 

Hi Fede,

 

Here is reliable info.

 

From "The Birth of a Divine Revelation" (2000) by Ernest P. Moyer:

 

(p.100) "Here I wish to concentrate on the episode which caused

Sadler to describe his first contact with the Sleeping Subject.

[Harold Marrow] Sherman published this account in his 1976 book he

called "How to Know What To Believe."

 

This was Sadler's account, as recorded by Sherman [excerpts]:

 

"About thirty-five years ago [1911] when Lena and I were young physicians

together, we decided to move, but the place we had in mind was not

yet available. We were direceted to a furnished apartment in the

neighborhood., which we took for several months until our place was

ready.

We had been there about two weeks, and some of the tenants had

apparently learned we were physicians, because one of them, a woman

living directly below, rapped on our door about 11:00 PM as we were

in the act of retiring. She said: 'Will you please come downstairs

with me? Something has happened to my husband. He's gone asleep; he

is breathing very stargely; I can't wake him up.'

We slipped into our bathrobes and went down to her apartment, where I

saw a medioum-sized man, approaching middle age, asleep in bed,

breathing very fitfully,. He would take couple of short, quick

breaths, for a time, and then he would hold his breath for a long

time, long enough for any normal human to have gotten black in the

face, but nothing happened. I took his pulse and was surprised to

find it normal. I then tried to arouse him with every known method,

even to sticking pins in him - but failed. ...

We sat around and waited for him to return to consciousness, during

which time his body gave several violent jumps and starts. Finally,

after about an hour he looked around and saw us. We had propped him

up on pillows, and he now turned to his wife and asked, pointing at

us, 'Who are these people?' She explained that we were doctors she

had called in when she found she couldn't awaken him, and he

said, 'What's wrong? What happened?

I asked him, 'How do you feel?' He said, 'Fine.' I said, 'What have

you been dreaming about?' He said, 'I haven't been dreaming at all.'

I said, 'You have been jumping about on the bed.' He said, 'I don't

know anything about that. I can't understand it.' I told him I would

keep him under observation, to which he readily agreed.

....

Nothing happened for several weeks, and then, one night, about the

same time, his wife called us and said he was having one of those

spells again. We went down, and gave him some more tests and tried

to rouse him - all to no effect. His labored breathing; his sudden

breathing off and then no breathing at all would have been alarming

had not his pulse reamined strong and even throughout. The whole

affair wqas baffling. When he awakened, he was, as before,

unconscious of anything having transpired.

(p.101)This sort of experience was repeated at different times at

night, until the fall fall of the year, when we were able to move to

the residence of our choice. This man's lease expeired the same

fall, and he moved into an apartment house in the same block so he

could be near us(1).

One night, when we were called to his new address, as we sat by the

bedside, Dr. Lena noticed that he was moistening his lips as though

he was preparing to speak. She said, 'Perhaps he want to talk to us.

maybe if we ask him a question we will get answer.'

(p.236) She did so, and to our great astonishment he did reply; but

it was not his voice. It was that of what we later learned was

astudent visitor on an observation trip here from a distant planet!

This being apparently conversed with us through thsi sleeping

subject and expressed ideas and philosophies which struck us as

entirely new."

(p.237)"I had been led to believe, through previous study and

research, that all such manifestations, however phenomenal, were the

work of the subconscious. I therefore got this man into my office

several days later, since other entities were apparently coming

through him, and secured his premission to submit to hypnotism that

I might explore his subconscious. It was diffcult to get him under,

but when I finally did so, I was amazed to find no consciousness

whatsoever of the subjects discussed by these purported beings,

which we had all, by this time, started to record in long hand and

later combined.

I now felt that I needed help in solving the causes of this

mysterious phenomenon, and I called on other doctors and scientists,

friends of mine, as well as Houdini and Thurston. They were equally

unable to furnish any explanation. Finding by now that we could

communicate by direct voice with different student visitors and

other beings, we began to look forward to each 'contact,' as we came

to call them, and enjoy the opportunity of asking questions, which

always brought the most stimulating and unexpected answers.

We took to writing questions in advance about the universe and

asking them verbally whenever given a chance. Finally, as a test, I

worked out fifty-two questions privately and had them in my own

mind, deciding to wait and see whether those so-called student

visitors might be able to divine what was in my own consciousness.

(p.238) One night, a particularly electrifying personality seemed

to be present from a distant planet and had greatly excited us by

his comments. As he was about to go, I addressed him saying, 'How

can you prove that you are who you say you are?' He replied, 'I

cannot prove it - but you cannot prove that I am not.' He then

stunned me by continuing, 'However, I have just received permission

to answer forty-six of the fifty-two questions you have been holding

in your mind.'

Dr. Ruth [Lena Sadler] spoke up and said, 'Why Henry, [William Sadler] you

haven't had such questions, have you?' And I had to admit, " Yes,

Ruth, the exact number.'

This personality then proceeded to give me the answers to the

forty-six questions as promised. When he had finally finished he

said, 'If you people really knew what you had here, you would not

take up our time asking silly, trivial questions like this. You

would ask something really significant and important.'

We got home around one-thirty that night, but thare was no

sleep... We stayed up the rest of the night discussing and

formulating questions so that we might be prepared for the next

contact.

At this point I must go back and tell you that a few months

previously I had made a lecture trip to the University of Kansas;

and while there, I wrote a letter to my son, Henry, suggesting that

since we seldom went to church, though I often talked in churches, I

thought it would be a good idea if he and his mother would consider

inviting others in regularly for Sunday afternoon tea, about twenty

or thirty friends with whom we might discuss religion or any other

subject of mutual interest, and perhaps I would give them a little

talk to stimulate these discussions. When I returned home the

following Sunday noon, I found Dr. Ruth and Henry had already acted

upon my suggestion and were having about thirty people that

afternoon. This was about October, 1923, as I recall.

(p.239) It was in November that I was asked by some memebers of

this little social group, which we had come to call the Forum, if I

woudn't tell some of my experiences in abnormal psychology. And

since we had not been prohibited from talking about the phenomena we

had been witnessing, I related to them my encounter with the

sleeping subject and the strange communications we were receiving

through him, and told of our being challenged to ask real questions.

It suddenly occurred to me as I got to this point - why not

enlist the service of this group in the asking of such questions,

and I called upon them to help me. I said, 'Come back next Sunday

with all the profound questions you can think of, having to do with

God and the Universe, and we'll see if these intelligences can

answer them.'

The following Sunday the group arrived with over four thousand

questions! Dr. Ruth and I spent several days sorting and classifying

them. Then we held them in readiness, hoping for the opportunity

of 'calling the bluff' of the higher intelligences. We were, as we

thought, 'loaded for bear.'

Some weeks went by and nothing happened. We thought we had them

stumped, and then one morning at 6:00 A.M., the phone rang. It was

the man's wife calling, 'Come over quick!' she said. 'What

happened?' I asked. 'Is he still asleep?' 'Yes, but that's not it,'

she replied. 'Please get over here - hurry!'

We dressed like volunteer firemen and arrived out of breath. She

led us to the desk in his study and picked up a voluminous

manuscript of 472 pages, written in his own hand. I said, 'Where did

this come from?' She said, 'I don't know. He made some strange

noises in his sleep and woke me up, and I saw it there on the desk.'

I asked, 'Has he been out of bed?' She said, 'Not to my knowledge. I

don't see how he could have gotten out without waking me - and he is

not awake yet.' I said, 'Is this his handwriting?' She said, 'It's

his handwriting all right - but I don't see how he could have done

it.'

(p.240) I took a look at the manuscript and saw to great

astonishment that it was in answer to all of the questions that had

been formulated by ourselves in the Forum group.

I couldn't wait any longer. I took this bulky manuscript into the

bedroom and wakened up the subject. I said, 'Do you know what you

have been doing in your sleep?' He said, 'I haven't been doing

anything.' I said, 'Oh, yes, you have - and look at this! Isn't this

your handwriting?' He stared at the manuscript. 'Yes, it's my

hadwriting, but I didn't do it.'

I estimated it would take a normal individual seven to eight

hours, writing at top speed, and the subject matter was so profound

and yet so intelligently set down that I knew it was beyond human

capacity to achieve. I phoned Cindy and told her to bnring over at

one a 'grip device' for testing muscular fatigue. I reasoned, if he

had physically written all this, his right arm would give evidence

of it - but the device registered no fatigue what-so-ever.

We took the papers home and had them typed. They concerned the

Universal Father, the Supreme being, the Central and Super

Universes, and the Isle of Paradise. It was an unforgettable

occasion when I appeared before the Forum group and

announced, 'Well, we got the answers to our questions all right,'

and they were awestruck and speechless as we read the papers to

them. This was all we needed. Reading these papers led to hundreds

and thousands of more questions, and more papers commenced coming

through.

We found there seemed to be an organized group of high

intelligences on 'the other side,' prepared to present us the whole

astounding story of the universe, leading from God, the Universal

Father, down to the origin of the human creature, man, and his

ultimate glorious destiny beyond the reaches of time and space.

This continued for perhaps seven or eight years when what we

considered the first edition of papers was finished. At that time,

the Forum received its first direct message, and its members were

advised that now, since their knowledge had been expanded, they

should be able to ask more intelligent questions and if they would

do so, as they commenced a rereading of each paper, these

intelligences would completely revise the entire, tremendous manuscript."

 

 

Part I, II. and III were given to the Contact Commission in their final form in 1934;

Part IV in 1935.

 

Un abrazo,

 

Sandor

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Sandor;

 

Actually Part I and Part II were completed in 1934 and Part III was completed in 1935; but mysteriously Part IV has no completion date in UB published copies. There are some accounts, that try to present the history of the Ub material , that state that the Part IV papers showed up in Feb 1935. But for some reason, there is no date given at the end of Part IV like there is for the three other Parts.

 

Maybe the spiritual team was trying to say "To Be Continued "

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Guest rich.sachs

i've never read much on it from the foundation, i like to read the book and not much else when it comes to the urantia book, there's a belief that the book was materialized in or on a desk. also that the person spoke the words and someone recorded them, this is my belief. there's a paragraph in the book about the mortal through whom the book was written.

 

Hi sisters and brothers!

I would like to ask if anyone knows the right place to get the information of all the process which took I think 20 years in total. I would like to know if there is an official story of how Dr. Sadler and his team accomplished their mission.

Thanks

Hugs

Fede

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Rich;

 

Actually there are two places where the authors mention the mortal through whom the UB information was communicated.

 

Paper 110.5.7 "....human being through whom this communication was made....."

 

Paper 114.7.6 mention is made about the mortal mind used to materialize " these revelations"

 

 

And if you go to http://urantiabook.org/archive/history/wssjr1.htm

 

you can read the transcript of an interview with William Sadler Jr in which he spoke about the anonymous human contact person who was connected with the Urantia Papers coming into being. He said Pencil and paper was used but the contact person was never observed actually writing anything on the paper. It appeared like the pencil was moving with no visible means of motion. But yet, the writing on the paper was in the handwriting of the anonymous human being.

 

I have had the good fortune of meeting the grandson of one of the original forum members. We met in the library of the Urantia Foundation building at 533 Diversey Parkway, Chicago in 1978

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He said Pencil and paper was used but the contact person was never observed actually writing anything on the paper. It appeared like the pencil was moving with no visible means of motion. But yet, the writing on the paper was in the handwriting of the anonymous human being.

 

I'd add that according to the very few pieces of testimony we have, that "moving pencil" was never observed at all. Paper was set out and later found to have writing on it. At no point was the Sleeping Subject observed to do any writing. Moreover, Dr. Sadler reports testing the Sleeping Subject's forearm muscles for signs of fatigue, and there were none. On at least one occasion, the blank paper was left in a locked safe, and the writing reportedly still appeared.

 

Concerning the handwriting, Dr. Sadler and son give conflicting reports. The elder Sadler claimed that the writing was examined by an expert and compared with the actual handwriting of the Sleeping Subject, and found not to match. But Bill Sadler claims they did match. Odd to have disagreement on such a key detail.

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Yes. I agree that it does seem odd that William Sadler Jr's version seems to be at odds with his father's account. But if everyone agrees that the original UB information was first found to be handwritten in pencil on sheets of paper..... and the UB mentions in those two places (mentioned in my previous post) that the communications were made through the human being (contact personality) then wouldn't it follow that the handwriting may well have matched that of that particular human. The style of handwriting could have been conveyed from the human mind and onto the paper by the work of the secondary midwayer who was involved with the materialization process (see Paper 114.7.6) Otherwise, it would have been the handwriting of the secondary midwayer.

 

Regarding the original handwritten papers; I heard that all of them disappeared, after being transcribed by Christy onto type-written pages and then placed into a locked safe. Makes sense if the Celestial Beings wanted to destroy the link back to a human being who was to remain anonymous. If this is part of the reason for their disappearance, then it again points to the possibilty of the hand writing matching that of the sleeping subject.

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A Short addendum to my previous post: I just had a look at Mark Kulieke's book "Birth of a Revelation" (how the UB came about) and he mentions that the original "Contact Commission Group" speculated on the possibilty that the writing was that of a secondary midwayer

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Some more interesting pieces of the puzzle of how the UB came into existence;

 

Most of the original Contact Commission people who were interviewed, said that Part I, II and III were completed in 1934. Then why do the published copies of the Urantia Book state that Part I and Part II were completed in 1934 and that Part III was completed in 1935.

 

And Part IV does not mention any completion date on the last page.

 

Another interesting thing about Part IV is that it was discovered, the complete set of papers; in a vacant office (at 533 Diversey) type written, next to the typewriter on which it had been produced. It was typewritten, justified, punctuated, and capitalized..... in February 1935

The first 3 parts were all produced in hand written form.

 

A very Special Book with a very mysterious entry into our 3 dimensional world here on Urantia (Earth to all non-believers)

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Yes. I agree that it does seem odd that William Sadler Jr's version seems to be at odds with his father's account. But if everyone agrees that the original UB information was first found to be handwritten in pencil on sheets of paper..... and the UB mentions in those two places (mentioned in my previous post) that the communications were made through the human being (contact personality) then wouldn't it follow that the handwriting may well have matched that of that particular human. The style of handwriting could have been conveyed from the human mind and onto the paper by the work of the secondary midwayer who was involved with the materialization process (see Paper 114.7.6) Otherwise, it would have been the handwriting of the secondary midwayer.

 

Assuming for the moment that the story we have is close to the truth and not a delusion or fabrication, I'm inclined to believe Dr. Sadler's statements about the handwriting, rather than Bill's. My reasons are:

 

1. Dr. Sadler was present and continuously involved during the period when the papers were "reduced to writing". Bill was away in the military during at least part of this period. No one was in a better position than Dr. Sadler to comment with authority on this.

 

2. Dr. Sadler adds the point that the Sleeping Subject's hand showed no sign of having done massive amounts of writing during the night, at least on that first night that written pages appeared. The purpose of making this point can only be that Dr. Sadler didn't believe that the Sleeping Subject actually wielded the pencil.

 

3. Dr. Sadler eventually said that although he wasn't allowed to say all that he knew about how the papers were "materialized", he could say how they weren't. So he did so, and in that list he included the fact that the manner in which the papers were written "in no way parallels or impinges upon" automatic writing (among other things). This phrase, "in no way parallels or impinges upon" is very strong, and it entails that the actual process wasn't even similar to automatic writing. But if the Sleeping Subject's hand actually held and operated the pencil, Dr. Sadler could not in all honesty deny that the process at least paralleled automatic writing. A sleeping man who holds a pencil and writes out large amounts of text is doing something that may not be "classic" automatic writing, but certainly parallels it.

 

4. Both Dr. Sadler and Bill Sadler confess that they really didn't know how the papers came to be written. If the Sleeping Subject did the actual wielding of the pencil, then that aspect of the process wouldn't be so mysterious.

 

5. It would make no sense for Dr. Sadler to fabricate the bit about getting the opinion of a handwriting expert if the handwriting was the Sleeping Subject's. After all, anyone would expect it to be the Sleeping Subject's handwriting. But if, as Dr. Sadler asserted, the handwriting appeared not to be the Sleeping Subject's, that would call for expert verification.

 

So, to me the more puzzling question is: Why did Bill Sadler state that the handwriting was the Sleeping Subject's? Not only that, but the way in which he says it is more than a little odd. He said, "We tried everything we could think of to see how this was being done, but were

baffled. The text was entirely written in pencil -- all in the handwriting of this individual who remarked that if they ever wanted to draw on his bank account he'd be a dead duck because the bank would pay on their signature." Signature? Why would the signature of the Sleeping Subject appear anywhere on the Urantia papers? I have no explanation of this comment by Bill Sadler, but it seems to me not to fit with everything else, so I'm inclined to think that Bill Sadler was confused on this point.

 

Regarding the original handwritten papers; I heard that all of them disappeared, after being transcribed by Christy onto type-written pages and then placed into a locked safe. Makes sense if the Celestial Beings wanted to destroy the link back to a human being who was to remain anonymous. If this is part of the reason for their disappearance, then it again points to the possibilty of the hand writing matching that of the sleeping subject.

 

But do we know that the Celestial Beings wanted to destroy all links to a human being? I think we know that the members of the Contact Commission promised that individual to keep his name a secret. In any case, I had the impression that the handwritten pages were eventually destroyed by the Contact Commission, either after transcription or after the plates were cast.

 

I've heard the story about the pages for Part IV being typed and justified, which seems like a very odd thing to do, especially if those pages were meant to be destroyed. I don't know the source of that bit of lore.

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Guest rich.sachs

my belief is that it was automatic writing through this person, not spoken and transcribed by another. i have no belief in the pencil moving by itself.

 

110:5.7 The Adjuster of the human being through whom this communication is being made enjoys such a wide scope of activity chiefly because of this human's almost complete indifference to any outward manifestations of the Adjuster's inner presence; it is indeed fortunate that he remains consciously quite unconcerned about the entire procedure. He holds one of the highly experienced Adjusters of his day and generation, and yet his passive reaction to, and inactive concern toward, the phenomena associated with the presence in his mind of this versatile Adjuster is pronounced by the guardian of destiny to be a rare and fortuitous reaction. And all this constitutes a favorable co-ordination of influences, favorable both to the Adjuster in the higher sphere of action and to the human partner from the standpoints of health, efficiency, and tranquillity.

 

114:7.15 On many worlds the better adapted secondary midway creatures are able to attain varying degrees of contact with the Thought Adjusters of certain favorably constituted mortals through the skillful penetration of the minds of the latters' indwelling. (And it was by just such a fortuitous combination of cosmic adjustments that these revelations were materialized in the English language on Urantia.)

 

Rich;

 

Actually there are two places where the authors mention the mortal through whom the UB information was communicated.

 

Paper 110.5.7 "....human being through whom this communication was made....."

 

Paper 114.7.6 mention is made about the mortal mind used to materialize " these revelations"

 

 

And if you go to http://urantiabook.org/archive/history/wssjr1.htm

 

you can read the transcript of an interview with William Sadler Jr in which he spoke about the anonymous human contact person who was connected with the Urantia Papers coming into being. He said Pencil and paper was used but the contact person was never observed actually writing anything on the paper. It appeared like the pencil was moving with no visible means of motion. But yet, the writing on the paper was in the handwriting of the anonymous human being.

 

I have had the good fortune of meeting the grandson of one of the original forum members. We met in the library of the Urantia Foundation building at 533 Diversey Parkway, Chicago in 1978

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When you get right down to it, it doesn't really matter how the handwriting got onto the paper. The important fact is; that the mind of the human being, the "sleeping subject' was used to convey the material in the Urantia Book, Otherwise we wouldn't be told the following:

 

So we go to the Urantia Book and what are we told?.... See what the author of Paper 110 "a Solitary Messenger of Orvonton" tells us in the

first line of 110.5.7 "The Adjuster of the human being through whom this communication is being made.........."

 

And in Paper 114.7.15 we have The Chief of Seraphim stationed on Urantia telling the readers that "....secondary midway creatures are able to attain varying degrees of contact with the Thought Adjusters of favorably constituted mortals through the skillful penetration of the minds of the latters' indwelling [meaning the sleeping subject] (And it was just by such a fortuitous combination of cosmic adjustments that these revelations were materialized in the English language on Urantia)

 

So it was the mind of the anonymous sleeping subject that was the conduit or connection to make it possible for information within the UB to come to us and help us better understand our Heavenly Father and his wonderful Creator Sons

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my belief is that it was automatic writing through this person, not spoken and transcribed by another. i have no belief in the pencil moving by itself.

 

Then it's your belief that Dr. Sadler was an unabashed liar, since he declared in no uncertain terms that the process was nothing like automatic writing. This matters, because it undermines the credibility and trustworthiness of Dr. Sadler in general, which would make it impossible to trust his word concerning other details, or to trust that he didn't write or edit portions of the text himself. A great deal of the credibility of the UB rests on Dr. Sadler's integrity.

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When you get right down to it, it doesn't really matter how the handwriting got onto the paper. The important fact is; that the mind of the human being, the "sleeping subject' was used to convey the material in the Urantia Book, Otherwise we wouldn't be told the following:

 

I think it matters, for reasons stated in reply to rich.sachs. If Dr. Sadler's integrity is in question, so is the UB's.

 

It's not clear that the mind of the Sleeping Subject, as opposed to his Thought Adjuster, played much of a role, other than by being indifferent to what was going on.

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Todd;

 

I have never said that Dr William Sadler was a liar. I did say that I agreed with you that there seems to be two different versions; one from Dr. William Sadler and one from his son. Both of them were members of the Contact Commission.

 

Regarding the mind of the sleeping subject; It appears to be a fact that one way or another, this individual was used to convey, transmit, etc the material which makes up the UB. Again i refer to Paper 110.5.7 Wherein it says that the human through whom this communication is being made

and Paper 114.7.15 where it says that the mind was used.

 

Okay; some more interesting pieces relating to how the UB material came about:

 

There were six people who made up the Contact Commission. These were the people who had direct contact with the sleeping subject and with a number of Celestial Beings who were working from the higher dimensions to deliver the information that was to end up as what we know as the UB.

 

these six people were; Dr. William Sadler, his wife Dr. Lena Sadler, her sister Anna Kellogg, Anna's husband Wilfred Kellogg (related to the Kellogg's Corn Flakes family) William Sadler Jr. and Emma Christensen (more commonly known as "Christie") Christie was also the adopted daughter of Dr. Sadler and his wife.

Religious background of Dr. William Sadler, Dr. Lena Sadler, and Wilfred and Anna Kellogg; was Seventh Day Adventist. In fact these four were close friends of Ellen G. White one of the original founders of the Seventh Day Adventist movement. Dr. William Sadler was also a minister in that faith/belief.

 

So it was quite amazing that these folks (especially Dr. William Sadler) to become involved with something so different, and so advanced as the UB.

 

The Spirit of Truth must have been very busy within the minds and hearts of the members of the Contact Commission for them to have been able to let go of the old dogma of the fundamental Christian belief system and be open minded to this very advanced level of Spiritual truth.

 

Jesus talked about this type of open mindedness See Paper 155.6.12 where Jesus is quoted as saying:

 

"You must cease to seek for the word of God only on the pages of the olden records of theologic authority. Those who are born of the spirit of God shall henceforth discern the word of God regardless of whence it appears to take origin. Divine truth must not be discounted because the channel of its bestowal is apparently human. Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to feel the presence of God."

 

To me, this paragraph really explains what goes on within a person when they are part of a Spiritual Trail Blazing Team. They have to be able to let go of the old established order, the old way of believing..and forge out into the unknown....guided by the Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of the Father the Divine Thought Adjuster.

 

Note: I hope I didn't offend anyone by posting material which contains the " C word" but it is part of a direct quote from the UB

 

Just maybe, one day in the future, there will be some people (within the UB reading/study groups) who receive revelations and insights that take them beyond that which the UB has revealed. And hopefully they will be able to withstand the attacks from the then current established theologic authority of the day.

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Guest rich.sachs

you make rather strong statements there todd, about what i believe, like i'm saying something, i'm not saying anything.

 

Then it's your belief that Dr. Sadler was an unabashed liar

 

i haven't researched sadler's quotes, i think the book is well written and the book itself is my only interest. from decades ago who's to say what sadler said. did you meet him? did you hear him personally? decades ago was a little different than things today as far as the spiritual climate and beliefs. is there a video of sadler saying these things? is sadler still alive? and stop with your caustic, ridiculous accusations about me all the time in all of your posts addressed to me. i'm not calling sadler a liar, keep your understanding to yourself. stop your accusations completely, now, i'm tired of it.

 

", since he declared in no uncertain terms that the process was nothing like automatic writing.

This matters, because it undermines the credibility and trustworthiness of Dr. Sadler in general, which would make it impossible to trust his word concerning other details, or to trust that he didn't write or edit portions of the text himself. A great deal of the credibility of the UB rests on Dr. Sadler's integrity."

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Todd;

 

I have never said that Dr William Sadler was a liar. I did say that I agreed with you that there seems to be two different versions; one from Dr. William Sadler and one from his son. Both of them were members of the Contact Commission.

 

Indeed you didn't say that Dr. Sadler was a liar. I didn't claim otherwise. As far as I can tell, the two versions of the story from Sadler Sr., and Sadler Jr. are harmonious in most details, except for the handwriting detail. But on that detail, one of them was necessarily wrong. As you say, both were members of the Contact Commission, and both were in a position to know the facts. But they cannot both be right. For reasons I've already stated, I'm inclined to believe Sadler Sr.'s version on this detail. I don't claim that Bill Sadler lied, although he might have. It's possible that he was confused, since the "signature" comment is itself rather confusing.

 

Regarding the mind of the sleeping subject; It appears to be a fact that one way or another, this individual was used to convey, transmit, etc the material which makes up the UB. Again i refer to Paper 110.5.7 Wherein it says that the human through whom this communication is being made and Paper 114.7.15 where it says that the mind was used.

 

Agreed. The Sleeping Subject's mind and/or Thought Adjuster was used in some way. I'd add that there's nothing to indicate that there was only one sort of Contact phenomenon. There was apparently spoken contact as well, also involving the mind of the Sleeping Subject, and apparently his body as well. But there's nothing to indicate that the Sleeping Subject's body was involved in "the technique of the reception of the Urantia Book in English." Ever notice how carefully Dr. Sadler phrased that, avoiding the verb "writing"?

 

Religious background of Dr. William Sadler, Dr. Lena Sadler, and Wilfred and Anna Kellogg; was Seventh Day Adventist. In fact these four were close friends of Ellen G. White one of the original founders of the Seventh Day Adventist movement. Dr. William Sadler was also a minister in that faith/belief.

 

So it was quite amazing that these folks (especially Dr. William Sadler) to become involved with something so different, and so advanced as the UB.

 

Dr. Sadler was a minister in the SDA, but became estranged from both Sister White and the SDA religion, over various controversies. As far as I know, he was no longer connected to the SDA in any way when the Contact phenomena started. Dr. Sadler attended McCormick Theological Seminary, which was Presbyterian, and after his break with SDA he and his wife attended a Presbyterian church. But I agree that the whole thing was more than amazing, especially given Sadler's reputation as a debunker.

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you make rather strong statements there todd, about what i believe, like i'm saying something, i'm not saying anything.

 

i haven't researched sadler's quotes, i think the book is well written and the book itself is my only interest. from decades ago who's to say what sadler said. did you meet him? did you hear him personally?

 

He put it in writing for all to read. The text is here on this web site, as well as on many others, and in every book about UB origins. You can find it here, if you scroll down to the section "How We Did Not Get The Urantia Book". He unequivocally denies that automatic writing was involved.

 

and stop with your caustic, ridiculous accusations about me all the time in all of your posts addressed to me. i'm not calling sadler a liar, keep your understanding to yourself. stop your accusations completely, now, i'm tired of it.

 

I've accused you of nothing. You stated that you believe the UB was the product of automatic writing. Dr. Sadler went on record to deny that very thing. Dr. Sadler knew very well what automatic writing was, having researched and written about that and similar phenomena for years. If you nevertheless believe that the UB was the product of automatic writing, as you've asserted, then it is inescapable that you also believe Dr. Sadler was a liar. I'm not calling you a liar or making any other accusation, in this or any other post.

 

Asserting that the UB was the product of automatic writing is saying something.

 

As I see it, the purpose of these forums is precisely to share our understandings, so I'll continue to do so as I see fit.

 

The book is my interest too, but since no book is self-authenticating, matters concerning origins are relevant. If the UB had a human author, we would still no doubt be impressed with the breadth and depth of it, but we would ask "Why should I believe what this person is saying about these things?" And we would be right to do so. To answer that question, we must turn to the sources of information that we have, and they include the things that Dr. and Bill Sadler said. Their integrity matters.

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Referring to one of the early posts from Ellen RG in 2007 where she laid out the History of the Urantia Movement by Dr. William S. Sadler ; my attention was drawn to the section entitled "Contact Activities Preceding the Urantia Papers"

Dr. Sadler explained what happened over a span of twenty years during which time he and members of the Contact Group had experience communicating with various Celestial Beings...mainly the Midwayers. Quote: " The midwayers were very real to us....we frequently talked with them during our varied 'contacts'. We quite fully understood that the secondary midwayers supervised the contacts."

 

Then I scroll down to the section entitled "How The Urantia Papers Started"

Dr. Sadler said after about twenty years of contact experience an alleged student visiter, speaking through this sleeping subject during one of these nocturnal vigils....in answer to one of our questions, said " If only you knew what you are in contact with you would not ask such trivial questions. You would rather ask such questions as might elicit answers of supreme value to the human race"

 

So if I understand correctly, for twenty years before the real solid deep information began to come through, Dr. Sadler and other members of the Contact Group had numerous night time visits to the place where the sleeping subject was sleeping. And during these visits they were having conversations with a number of Celestial Beings, ( many with the midwayers) Getting used to the process...like a training session.

 

I wonder just how these conversations were being carried out. It sounds as if the Contact Group members asked questions out loud and then the invisible Celestial Spirit Beings spoke through the sleeping subject.

 

Does this sound about right ?

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