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Uncle Vinny

Near-Death Experiences: References

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I'm looking for quotations from the UB on aspects of the Near-Death Experience.

 

My favorite so far is in paper 167, The Talk on Angels, which describes their role in transporting the soul

of man to the "spiritual abodes."

 

I'm wondering if there are other sections that might shed light on the mechanics of the NDE.

The most prominent events that might be referred to in the UB relating to NDEs:

 

1. Seeing a light

2. Having an out-of-body experience

3. Strong emotional tone

4. Expanded knowledge

5. Landscape or City

6 Presence of deceased persons

 

For example, the description of the Mansion Worlds tie in to #5.

Thanks in advance.

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Vinny,

 

I suggest going to the Foundation's web sight and making several searches using "death" along with the seven NDE mentions, however, I don't believe you'll find much as far as NDE. You will find much on the ascension plan or after death experience. Also type in "resurrection" and see what pops up before part 4. In part four read up on Lazarus. Enjoy.

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There is a reference to what might be construed to be an out of body experience, without actually calling it that. TUB comments on the apostle Paul's description of being caught up into the third heaven.

 

48.6.12 You should consider the statement about “heaven” and the “heaven of heavens.” The heaven conceived by most of your prophets was the first of the mansion worlds of the local system. When the apostle spoke of being “caught up to the third heaven,” he referred to that experience in which his Adjuster was detached during sleep and in this unusual state made a projection to the third of the seven mansion worlds. Some of your wise men saw the vision of the greater heaven, “the heaven of heavens,” of which the sevenfold mansion world experience was but the first; the second being Jerusem; the third, Edentia and its satellites; the fourth, Salvington and the surrounding educational spheres; the fifth, Uversa; the sixth, Havona; and the seventh, Paradise.

 

The few out of body experiences I've had have occurred during an odd stage of sleep. They were nothing I was trying to conjure, they just happened and were bona fide because I turned around and saw my sleeping body on the bed and was struck by how odd it looks from the outside. It doesn't look like it does in the mirror; it's slightly different. Both occurrences were accompanied by significant religious experiences. So, I guess it can happen if the Adjuster detaches during sleep in "this unusual state". Just guessing though. Only self-acting Adjusters can do this apparently.

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All good suggestions. Thanks.

 

One other thing - I think the symbolic nature of "light" probably has a lot of references too.

 

Bonita, I hope you weren't drooling when you looked at yourself sleeping, ha ha!

Seriously, I think it happens to spiritually advanced people, and helps in their advancement.

Hate to think the Adjuster was "caught napping!" :)

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Hi Vinny,

 

Actually, my face had an expression on it that exactly mirrored what I was experiencing out of body but less intense, very muted, so we were clearly connected in some way. I think it was my soul that was with the Adjuster and my material mind somehow shared what I was experiencing. A true death would not include the material mind which does not go on with the soul.

 

117.5.7 The great circuits of energy, mind, and spirit are never the permanent possessions of ascending personality; these ministries remain forever a part of Supremacy. In the mortal experience the human intellect resides in the rhythmic pulsations of the adjutant mind-spirits and effects its decisions within the arena produced by encircuitment within this ministry. Upon mortal death the human self is everlastingly divorced from the adjutant circuit.

 

So in near death experiences the material mind and soul must still be connected somehow. A really dead person would be unconscious and enseraphed on its way to the next life. Near death experiences must be some sort of limbo where the mind-soul is babysat until the body returns to full life. When we really die, there is no memory from the material mind; only the soul with the character traits it inherited from the material life, and those memories with spiritual significance survive, but for the most part, material memory has to be reconstructed.

 

112.6.7 Mortal mind, prior to death, is self-consciously independent of the Adjuster presence; adjutant mind needs only the associated material-energy pattern to enable it to operate. But the morontia soul, being superadjutant, does not retain self-consciousness without the Adjuster when deprived of the material-mind mechanism. This evolving soul does, however, possess a continuing character derived from the decisions of its former associated adjutant mind, and this character becomes active memory when the patterns thereof are energized by the returning Adjuster.

 

40:9.7 Even with Adjuster-fusion candidates, only those human experiences which were of spiritual value are common possessions of the surviving mortal and the returning Adjuster and hence are immediately remembered subsequent to mortal survival. Concerning those happenings which were not of spiritual significance, even these Adjuster-fusers must depend upon the attribute of recognition-response in the surviving soul. And since any one event may have a spiritual connotation to one mortal but not to another, it becomes possible for a group of contemporary ascenders from the same planet to pool their store of Adjuster-remembered events and thus to reconstruct any experience which they had in common, and which was of spiritual value in the life of any one of them.

 

Most folks have experiential awareness of their souls but do not have actual soul consciousness (ability to think with their souls), so these near death experiences either include both mind and soul, or are entirely soul related. If they don't include the adjutant mind, then these folks must suddenly become soul conscious (which includes Adjuster consciousness) and retain the memory of this, which would be a profound experience for someone who hadn't been soul or Adjuster conscious before. Hope you get what I'm trying to say.

 

Incidentally, in my own experiences, thinking with my soul while out of body, was an entirely different experience which I can't fully describe. I didn't know exactly what was going on in my physical mind because in one episode, I actually asked if I could re-enter my body to know what "she" was thinking. I actually referred to my body as if it were another person that I happen to know and love, which is why I believe what it says in TUB that the soul is not conscious of the material mind until it evolves to a certain point. The soul has a separate consciousness. It was kinda creepy, but I went in, felt it and then went out again to go back to the lesson I was being taught. My soul felt responsible for my material self, material mind included; but, I had clearly transferred the seat of my identity to my soul. (This was a profound experience, really too deep for words, accompanied by that great light which others have described. Nevertheless, it felt natural and did not create fanaticism in me, only supreme joy.)

 

p1219:3  111:3.4 Both the human mind and the divine Adjuster are conscious of the presence and differential nature of the evolving soul—the Adjuster fully, the mind partially. The soul becomes increasingly conscious of both the mind and the Adjuster as associated identities, proportional to its own evolutionary growth. The soul partakes of the qualities of both the human mind and the divine spirit but persistently evolves toward augmentation of spirit control and divine dominance through the fostering of a mind function whose meanings seek to co-ordinate with true spirit value.

 

112:5.4    Human beings possess identity only in the material sense. Such qualities of the self are expressed by the material mind as it functions in the energy system of the intellect. When it is said that man has identity, it is recognized that he is in possession of a mind circuit which has been placed in subordination to the acts and choosing of the will of the human personality. But this is a material and purely temporary manifestation, just as the human embryo is a transient parasitic stage of human life. Human beings, from a cosmic perspective, are born, live, and die in a relative instant of time; they are not enduring. But mortal personality, through its own choosing, possesses the power of transferring its seat of identity from the passing material-intellect system to the higher morontia-soul system which, in association with the thought adjuster, is created as a new vehicle for personality manifestation.

 

Thinking with my soul wasn't that much different from thinking with my material mind, just extra-dimensional, much lighter with remarkably more freeom and more intense joy and determination to be part of the divine adventure. I still had concerns and spiritual puzzlements though; I was keenly aware that I was being taught and had a lot to learn. I was struck with my own ignorance, but felt tremendous love and support. There were problems to solve and I knew that eventually I would solve them; I was really pumped about it. In one episode, I met someone I know, and in two others I met strangers, but none of them were mortals I've met on earth or dead people; all of them were divine beings. I'm afraid to tell you any more for fear that I'll sound like a nut case, but those experiences were genuine, which is why I believe people who talk about their near death experiences. If they are just illusions, they are illusions which change peoples' lives for the better, and that's hard to explain without including the divine. I've never heard of anyone coming back from a near death experience to go on and live a deliberately sinful life.

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I've never heard of anyone coming back from a near death experience to go on and live a deliberately sinful life.

very good point :)

Nigel

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That last quote

 

But mortal personality, through its own choosing, possesses the power of transferring its seat of identity from the passing material-intellect system to the higher morontia-soul system which, in association with the thought adjuster, is created as a new vehicle for personality manifestation.

 

seems to sum it up nicely.

The NDEs often speak as you described of ineffability, unable to put in words the wondrous feeling.

 

They also often say things like "The REAL me was looking down on my body" so I do agree

somehow the intellect is transferred to the morontia soul system.

That would explain why people in flat-line EEGs are able to think so clearly

and report back the events taking place in the operating room.

 

"Through its own choosing" is another matter. MANY are sent back to the earth plane with the instruction

"It's not your time" sometimes against their will - which seems to indicated either a higher power is making

that choice, or some higher aspect of the soul decides.

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I had a non NDE experience 34 years ago where when praying in a Chapel when earlier many times contemplating suicide. I asked God for help, and found myself being transported away from the Earth (which I could see becoming smaller ) by a big bronze angel (no wings), very bright colors, and found myself in a room with Jesus on a neon like throne. I couldn't see his hands, feet or face, but I could see His form and arms resting on the arm rests. The angel asked me if I knew who it was and I said I knew it was Jesus (in thought talk). Long story short the angel then showed me around, and I saw 2 story residential buildings with people outside, I could tell male and female by their hair, and all dressed in white dress type garments, but I could sort of see they were made of a different substance than we are. I then saw a large maybe 6 story building which he said was a Center of Learning with all of the knowledge of the universe and that anyone could go there and learn whatever they wanted to. I then saw we were returning, and I found myself back in the chapel.

 

So, from that day to this I think about it every day. It was a long road from the Bible to TUB, where I finally have some idea of what happened. I have also concluded that it probably happens when a person is under a great deal of stress, and can actually "hold" or "experience" such an event, but that's just an opinion. It was an event I'll forever be thankful for.

 

It has however made me realize that living in this finite world and praying/worshiping in the spirit are vastly different states. I thus always read TUB before sleep, and even though the dream state is very convoluted (as Jesus taught it's about issues not worked out), when I awaken my mind is on the Holy Family in some form, which stays with me until finite troubles/issues set in every day.

 

I realize we are all uniquely different personalities, but we all have many common needs as well. I couldn't live my own life without the knowledge that the Lord is there and loves us.

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I know that the UB community in general pooh-poohs this type of experience citing the following reference about the religious life of Jesus:

 

The secret of his unparalleled religious life was this consciousness of the presence of God; and he attained it by intelligent prayer and sincere worship -- unbroken communion with God -- and not by leadings, voices, visions, or extraordinary religious practices." P2088:5, 196:0.10

 

But what happens when a vision occurs when no effort is expended to obtain one? TUB tells us that they do happen and that they are legitimate despite the fact that the symbolism of the vision often becomes confused. We know that there are also illegitimate ways of obtaining visions through trances and other altered psychic states; but of note, when one of these so called false prophets was causing a stir at one of Jesus' encampments, Jesus chose to tolerate him knowing that the difference between a true prophet and his visions and a false prophet and his visions will become evident to all but a few "unstable and erratic souls".

 

In the following quote, TUB tells us that John's visions took him to the universe headquarters and the system capital but he was unable to see everything and his depictions were somewhat confused.

 

34.4.8 These are the “seven spirits of God,” “like lamps burning before the throne,” which the prophet saw in the symbols of vision. But he did not see the seats of the four and twenty sentinels about these seven adjutant mind-spirits. This record represents the confusion of two presentations, one pertaining to the universe headquarters and the other to the system capital. The seats of the four and twenty elders are on Jerusem, the headquarters of your local system of inhabited worlds.

 

Here again, John had a bona fide vision of our system headquarters using symbolic language which TUB ordains.

 

47.10.2 John the Revelator saw a vision of the arrival of a class of advancing mortals from the seventh mansion world to their first heaven, the glories of Jerusem. He recorded: “And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and those who had gained the victory over the beast that was originally in them and over the image that persisted through the mansion worlds and finally over the last mark and trace, standing on the sea of glass, having the harps of God, and singing the song of deliverance from mortal fear and death.”

 

TUB tells us that many of our prophets have visited the first mansion world and Paul tells of a vision of the third mansion world which we are informed was made possible by the Thought Adjuster. We are also told that Jesus' Personalized Adjuster provided him with a vision at his baptism of his prior existence as a Son of God.

 

48.6.12 You should consider the statement about “heaven” and the “heaven of heavens.” The heaven conceived by most of your prophets was the first of the mansion worlds of the local system. When the apostle spoke of being “caught up to the third heaven,” he referred to that experience in which his Adjuster was detached during sleep and in this unusual state made a projection to the third of the seven mansion worlds. Some of your wise men saw the vision of the greater heaven, “the heaven of heavens,” of which the sevenfold mansion world experience was but the first; the second being Jerusem; the third, Edentia and its satellites; the fourth, Salvington and the surrounding educational spheres; the fifth, Uversa; the sixth, Havona; and the seventh, Paradise.

 

Likewise, TUB tells us that there is such a thing as true prophetic vision and it is described as a superpsychologic visitation. It also warns that psychic speculation is dangerous which is why superpsychic experiences have such a profound affect on one's life; they supersede and function to unseat the more concrete lower psychic levels.

 

If Adjusters are responsible for providing genuine visions, and if Adjusters reside in the superconscious, the result would necessarily be superpsychic. All of this provides the "other worldliness" impression made on normal consciousness requiring symbolic thought and language due to the absence of prior experience. Those who attempt to create these visions by conjuring up altered states of consciousness are not accessing the superconsciousness. The superconscious is accessed by intelligent prayer and sincere worship. In fact, when reading TUB, visions are often described as being presented rather than conjured.

 

91.7.3 Genuine spiritual ecstasy is usually associated with great outward calmness and almost perfect emotional control. But true prophetic vision is a superpsychologic presentiment. Such visitations are not pseudo hallucinations, neither are they trancelike ecstasies.

 

We also know that visions can be a reality because TUB tells us that Mary and Elizabeth both had a genuine vision of Gabriel and heard his voice. TUB also calls Peter's dream about Jesus walking on the water a "night vision" which had a profound affect on him. We also know that the vision of the Transfiguration was a reality.

 

So what's my point? These genuine religious experiences do occur but we have a paucity of symbolism with which to relate the experience; therefore, just as many visions will become confused and jumbled, many visions will share similar images and metaphors and add to the collective archetype of God and his heaven. Teobeck's vision of a God-figure on a throne goes all the way back to Ma’asei Merkavah of ancient Jewish mysticism and probably further. People have been "seeing" these things for thousands and thousands of years and will continue to "see" them for thousands more years. Likewise, nay sayers have been around for thousands and thousands of years and will continue to question the validity of these visions well into the future.

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If Adjusters are responsible for providing genuine visions, and if Adjusters reside in the superconscious, the result would necessarily be superpsychic. All of this provides the "other worldliness" impression made on normal consciousness requiring symbolic thought and language due to the absence of prior experience.

 

Bonita, as usual, you make a well reasoned observation, and posting that took some time. Thanks for that. The "other worldliness impression requiring symbolic thought and language" sounds really reasonable. and

"The superconscious is accessed by intelligent prayer and sincere worship. In fact, when reading TUB, visions are often described as being presented rather than conjured."

 

And, sincere prayer and worship is what I was doing at that time, for sure. However mine happened, I will always be forever thankful.

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It was on another thread, I think, that I tried to explain that there are common features to these events whom those who have experienced them, will readily recognize. I was surprised to find that scholars have studied this, written and currently teach about it. It is a phenomenon that is part of human religious experience which goes back as far as recorded history.

 

I am completely convinced of the reality of these events, despite the overwhelming number of skeptics, because of the uncanny similarity in the way experiencers describe what they see. For instance, I have been to that place you call a university many times, sometimes as a student, sometimes as a teacher and sometimes just as a visitor. There are Melchizedeks there and other creatures just like you and me. And I'll tell you something really weird, I've met one person who is still alive today during what I call a night vision. I do believe we are taught by our TA's during sleep and if we are so fortunate as to have some consciousness of our souls, it is possible to recall these events where the TA and the soul visit places of higher learning. And what I have experienced is that higher learning often involves sharing what you know.

 

I've also seen the residences and the sea of glass. The sea of glass was a complete surprise and very confusing; I lingered there for a while. At first I thought it was a giant lake of absolutely still and perfectly clear water nestled in a bucolic valley. In fact, I was so convinced it was water that I was completely shaken when I saw that a few people were walking around on top of it near the perimeter. I recall going up to them and staring intently at their feet while they amusingly watched me until I realized that I was standing on it too. In all of these experiences I had a companion with me at all times. I'm not sure if that companion is my TA or someone else, but after reading TUB, I'm inclined to think that it is my TA. Likewise, there are always many other persons present, some I am fortunate to be introduced to, others seem to be just watching.

 

These experiences have convinced me that I can only describe things with words I have actual experience with. When something comes up that I've never experienced, then old words need to be adapted in an attempt to give meaning to something that otherwise has no meaning. If I had not read about the sea of glass in TUB, I would never have been able to describe this adequately. When the prophets of old attempted to describe what they saw, they were forced to use language of their culture, hence the references to thrones, chariots, beasts, etc..

 

Sometimes I wonder if TUB was given to us to help us stretch our ability to put words to these morontia experiences. As we progress, more and more people will be discovering these places and the ability to put them into a cosmic perspective will be very helpful in preventing fanatical interpretations. If people know about the mansion worlds intellectually, when they experience them with their soul, their minds will have something other than pure fantasy and myth to draw upon in order to describe and explain the experience, whether it is just for themselves or to edify others. If we truly believe these places exist, and since TUB tells us that our forefathers have been there while still walking in mortal vesture, we have no choice but to accept the fact that people today are experiencing the morontia life as well.

 

p551:7 48:6.2 You should understand that the morontia life of an ascending mortal is really initiated on the inhabited worlds at the conception of the soul, at that moment when the creature mind of moral status is indwelt by the spirit Adjuster. And from that moment on, the mortal soul has potential capacity for supermortal function, even for recognition on the higher levels of the morontia spheres of the local universe.

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Hello Teobeck, bonita, all,

 

I want to remind readers that Thought Adjusters are pre- personal. They are not persons, and they are not visible:

 

Nonpersonalized Adjusters are visible only to Personalized Adjusters. My order, the Solitary Messengers, together with Inspired Trinity Spirits, can detect the presence of Adjusters by means of spiritual reactive phenomena; and even seraphim can sometimes discern the spirit luminosity of supposed association with the presence of Monitors in the material minds of men; but none of us are able actually to discern the real presence of Adjusters, not unless they have been personalized, albeit their natures are perceivable in union with the fused personalities of the ascending mortals from the evolutionary worlds.
(p. 1180)

 

No one, myself included, dare dash one's personal experience. On the other hand I wonder how these types of experiences advance the teachings of Jesus on our world. Do these varied experiences make one a better person? A better righteousness recommender?

 

As the days pass, every true believer becomes more skillful in alluring his fellows into the love of eternal truth. Are you more resourceful in revealing goodness to humanity today than you were yesterday? Are you a better righteousness recommender this year than you were last year? Are you becoming increasingly artistic in your technique of leading hungry souls into the spiritual kingdom?
(p. 1740)

 

Whatever your personal experience is, the UB reminds readers that altogether too much of the uprush of the memories of the unconscious levels of the human mind has been mistaken for divine revelations and spirit leadings. Jesus had no subconscious delusions or superconscious illusions.

 

If one is disposed to recognize a theoretical subconscious mind as a practical working hypothesis in the otherwise unified intellectual life, then, to be consistent, one should postulate a similar and corresponding realm of ascending intellectual activity as the superconscious level, the zone of immediate contact with the indwelling spirit entity, the Thought Adjuster. The great danger in all these psychic speculations is that visions and other so-called mystic experiences, along with extraordinary dreams, may be regarded as divine communications to the human mind. In times past, divine beings have revealed themselves to certain God-knowing persons, not because of their mystic trances or morbid visions, but in spite of all these phenomena.
(p. 1099)

 

In contrast with conversion-seeking, the better approach to the morontia zones of possible contact with the Thought Adjuster would be through living faith and sincere worship, wholehearted and unselfish prayer. Altogether too much of the uprush of the memories of the unconscious levels of the human mind has been mistaken for divine revelations and spirit leadings.
(p. 1099)

 

There is great danger associated with the habitual practice of religious daydreaming; mysticism may become a technique of reality avoidance, albeit it has sometimes been a means of genuine spiritual communion. Short seasons of retreat from the busy scenes of life may not be seriously dangerous, but prolonged isolation of personality is most undesirable. Under no circumstances should the trancelike state of visionary consciousness be cultivated as a religious experience.
(p. 1099)

 

The characteristics of the mystical state are diffusion of consciousness with vivid islands of focal attention operating on a comparatively passive intellect.
(p. 1099)

 

All of this gravitates consciousness toward the subconscious rather than in the direction of the zone of spiritual contact, the superconscious. Many mystics have carried their mental dissociation to the level of abnormal mental manifestations.
(p. 1100)

 

The more healthful attitude of spiritual meditation is to be found in reflective worship and in the prayer of thanksgiving. The direct communion with one's Thought Adjuster, such as occurred in the later years of Jesus' life in the flesh, should not be confused with these so-called mystical experiences. The factors which contribute to the initiation of mystic communion are indicative of the danger of such psychic states. The mystic status is favored by such things as: physical fatigue, fasting, psychic dissociation, profound aesthetic experiences, vivid sex impulses, fear, anxiety, rage, and wild dancing. Much of the material arising as a result of such preliminary preparation has its origin in the subconscious mind.
(p. 1100)

 

However favorable may have been the conditions for mystic phenomena, it should be clearly understood that Jesus of Nazareth never resorted to such methods for communion with the Paradise Father. Jesus had no subconscious delusions or superconscious illusions.
(p. 1100)

 

Back in the olden days and even today people are looking for signs. I'm of the opinion that a few UB readers continue to look for signs in the form of visions, voices and religious phenomena and experiences, as though such signs are an end in themselves. But then, I am a very conservative person and stay away from the seeking of signs.

 

All the best,

Meredith

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Hi Meredith, I knew you would be the first nay-sayer. It's no surprise.

 

You ask, "Do these experiences make one a better person, a better righteous recommender?" I guess you'll have to judge according to the fruits. But if these experiences are real, there is a list of things in TUB which, if true, vindicate them. In my personal experience, everything on the list checks out. You'll have to take my word for it since you cannot truly judge my fruit on the internet.

 

These events are not signs, they are genuine religious experiences. If you've never had one, then you will not understand regardless of how well they are explained and described. If God chooses to allow them, it is his business. And clearly he does allow it since TUB clearly states so along with many examples.

 

We know that Jesus had an unbroken consciousness of the presence of God and this is what our goal is. Jesus did have visions and he did hear voices, TUB relates several incidents where this happened. The following quote is referring to self-induced leadings, voices, visions and extraordinary religious practices which result in altered psychic states. If while practicing the presence of God, God chooses to offer a vision, then who are we to stop him, ridicule him or demand that he stay within a confined religious interpretation? True visions are presented, not conjured up, and are the result of spiritual simplicity, trust and faith in one's ability to commune with God himself as a faith-son, just like Jesus.

 

p2088:5 196:0.10 The secret of his unparalleled religious life was this consciousness of the presence of God; and he attained it by intelligent prayer and sincere worship—unbroken communion with God—and not by leadings, voices, visions, or extraordinary religious practices.

 

And no one has said that the TA is "seen". One "feels" the presence of God and knows of him, not by means of ordinary senses, intellect or emotion. Again, if you have never experienced the presence of God, you would not know what I'm talking about. Such a gift comes from spiritual simplicity and not from a life dictated by man-made rules regardless of which record of theologic authority they are deemed. The practice of the presence of God is the prelude to true worship; in other words, it is necessary for true worship.

 

p1732:5 155:6.12 You must cease to seek for the word of God only on the pages of the olden records of theologic authority. Those who are born of the spirit of God shall henceforth discern the word of God regardless of whence it appears to take origin. Divine truth must not be discounted because the channel of its bestowal is apparently human. Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they spiritually fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the
spiritual simplicity
of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not so important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to
feel the presence of God
.

 

p2083:4 195:9.8 Descriptive words of things beautiful cannot thrill like the sight thereof, neither can creedal words inspire men's souls like the experience of knowing the presence of God.

 

16:9.4 Human self-consciousness implies the recognition of the reality of selves other than the conscious self and further implies that such awareness is mutual; that the self is known as it knows. This is shown in a purely human manner in man's social life. But you cannot become so absolutely certain of a fellow being's reality as you can of the reality of the presence of God that lives within you.

 

p1133:01 The atmosphere of the communion provides a refreshing and comforting period of truce in the conflict of the self-seeking ego with the altruistic urge of the indwelling spirit Monitor. And this is the prelude to true worship--the practice of the presence of God which eventuates in the emergence of the brotherhood of man.

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Hi Bonita, all,

 

Here are more great remarks about Jesus:

 

Jesus did not live his life on earth in order to set an example for all other human beings to copy. He lived this life in the flesh by the same mercy ministry that you all may live your lives on earth; and as he lived his mortal life in his day and
as he was
, so did he thereby set the example for all of us thus to live our lives in our day and
as we are
. You may not aspire to live his life, but you can resolve to
live your lives
even as, and by the same means that, he lived his. Jesus may not be the technical and detailed example for all the mortals of all ages on all the realms of this local universe, but he is everlastingly the inspiration and guide of all Paradise pilgrims from the worlds of initial ascension up through a universe of universes and on through Havona to Paradise. Jesus is the new and living wa
y from man to God, from the partial to the perfect, from the earthly to the heavenly, from time to eternity.
(p. 1426)

 

I am overjoyed to be inspired by Jesus, relieved to know his life does not set an example for me to copy. He is my inspiration from the earthly to the heavenly. That's for sure! His life, symbolized by the cross, inspires me to want "to go and do likewise," as the commission of Urantia midwayers tell us:

 

The cross is that high symbol of sacred service, the devotion of one's life to the welfare and salvation of one's fellows. The cross is not the symbol of the sacrifice of the innocent Son of God in the place of guilty sinners and in order to appease the wrath of an offended God, but it does stand forever, on earth and throughout a vast universe, as a sacred symbol of the good bestowing themselves upon the evil and thereby saving them by this very devotion of love. The cross does stand as the token of the highest form of unselfish service, the supreme devotion of the full bestowal of a righteous life in the service of wholehearted ministry, even in death, the death of the cross. And the very sight of this great symbol of the bestowal life of Jesus truly inspires all of us to want to go and do likewise.
(p. 2019)

 

All the best,

Meredith

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And the inspiration of such selfless service results in the wholehearted desire do the Father's will.

 

196:04 Unselfish social consciousness must be, at bottom, a religious consciousness; that is, if it is objective; otherwise it is a purely subjective philosophic abstraction and therefore devoid of love. Only a God-knowing individual can love another person as he loves himself.

 

p.1121:06 Religious desire is the hunger quest for divine reality. Religious experience is the realization of the consciousness of having found God. And when a human being does find God, there is experienced within the soul of that being such an indescribable restlessness of triumph in discovery that he is impelled to seek loving service-contact with his less illuminated fellows, not to disclose that he has found God, but rather to allow the overflow of the welling-up of eternal goodness within his own soul to refresh and ennoble his fellows. Real religion leads to increased social service.

 

p.1096 - §1 Spirituality becomes at once the indicator of one's nearness to God and the measure of one's usefulness to fellow beings. Spirituality enhances the ability to discover beauty in things, recognize truth in meanings, and discover goodness in values. Spiritual development is determined by capacity therefor and is directly proportional to the elimination of the selfish qualities of love.

 

Social service is the result of religious consciousness, the realization of having found God and one's nearness to him. Social service is not the means by which one gains religious consciousness and nearness to God, it is the other way around.

 

p.1769:10 Jesus' religion consisted not merely in believing, but in actually doing, those things which the gospel required. He did not teach that the essence of his religion consisted in social service, but rather that social service was one of the certain effects of the possession of the spirit of true religion.

 

143.2.6  Salvation is by the regeneration of the spirit and not by the self-righteous deeds of the flesh.

 

Jesus said that in him the way is open wider for all of us to see God. What do you suppose he meant by the words "in me"? He did not say with me, for me, by me, because of me, after me . . . he specifically said in me.

 

142:7.13  The Son of Man is prepared to ascend to the right hand of the Father, so that in me is the way now open still wider for all of you to see God and, ere you have finished the glorious progression, to become perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

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I have never heard anyone confirm for me that which Bonita so carefully explained. That was wonderful to read. Uniquely, more Pentecostals years ago said they believed I saw what I saw, whereas most others over the years either patronize me or just act neutral. No matter.

 

The exchange between the ladies above show they are in agreement as to TUB teachings, and only differ as to visions. That is really normal if one hasn't had one, and no one needs to have one to believe. I wasn't expecting one when I had it, and it has never happened again. To relate it is more to affirm than to deter. As TUB states somewhere, there are 24 types of personalities here, and each one is uniquely different.

 

We all have the Family of God, and Jesus came to teach us about it, and about the Father, and about Father God's will, which is also explained by Jesus as God's ways.

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Jesus said that in him the way is open wider for all of us to see God. What do you suppose he meant by the words "in me"? He did not say with me, for me, by me, because of me, after me . . . he specifically said in me.

 

142:7.13  The Son of Man is prepared to ascend to the right hand of the Father, so that in me is the way now open still wider for all of you to see God and, ere you have finished the glorious progression, to become perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

 

Hi Bonita, Teobeck, all,

 

Thanks Teobeck for your comments about your experience. Perhaps more people have such experiences, than care to share them.

 

Regarding Bonita's "in me" question: We go to the Father by way of the local universe sovereign, the God-man of Nebadon, Jesus of Nazareth and Michael of Salvington. That's the ordainded ascension route. We go to the Father through Jesus. He's the Creator Son of Nebadon, the one whose creative plan is proceeding ". . . along the path of gradual evolvement and progressive development of the physical, intellectual and spiritual natures and capacities of the manifold creatures who inhabit the varied orders of spheres comprising such a local universe." (p. 357) He lived as a human and completed his 7th bestowal, not only for us, but for all of Nebadon. Perhaps the completion of his bestowals confers upon all subsequent ascension candidates a wider way to see God, once the ascension candidates have finished the glorious progression to become perfect, even as our Father in heaven is perfect.

 

And he who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Father. That's what we're told in many places in the book, as in this paragraph for example:

 

Jesus never gave his apostles a systematic lesson concerning the personality and attributes of the Father in heaven. He never asked men to believe in his Father; he took it for granted they did. Jesus never belittled himself by offering arguments in proof of the reality of the Father. His teaching regarding the Father all centered in the declaration that he and the Father are one; that he who has seen the Son has seen the Father; that the Father, like the Son, knows all things; that only the Son really knows the Father, and he to whom the Son will reveal him; that he who knows the Son knows also the Father; and that the Father sent him into the world to reveal their combined natures and to show forth their conjoint work.
(p. 1855)

 

It is of interest to note that our Creator son has many sheep not of this fold and they. too, will gain entrance to the sheepfold only through the door:

 

"The true shepherd gathers his flock into the fold for the night in times of danger. And when the morning has come, he enters into the fold by the door, and when he calls, the sheep know his voice. Every shepherd who gains entrance to the sheepfold by any other means than by the door is a thief and a robber. The true shepherd enters the fold after the porter has opened the door for him, and his sheep, knowing his voice, come out at his word; and when they that are his are thus brought forth, the true shepherd goes before them; he leads the way and the sheep follow him. His sheep follow him because they know his voice; they will not follow a stranger. They will flee from the stranger because they know not his voice. This multitude which is gathered about us here are like sheep without a shepherd, but when we speak to them, they know the shepherd's voice, and they follow after us; at least, those who hunger for truth and thirst for righteousness do. Some of you are not of my fold; you know not my voice, and you do not follow me. And because you are false shepherds, the sheep know not your voice and will not follow you."

 

And when Jesus had spoken this parable, no one asked him a question. After a time he began again to speak and went on to discuss the parable:

 

"You who would be the undershepherds of my Father's flocks must not only be worthy leaders, but you must also feed the flock with good food; you are not true shepherds unless you lead your flocks into green pastures and beside still waters.

 

"And now, lest some of you too easily comprehend this parable, I will declare that I am both the door to the Father's sheepfold and at the same time the true shepherd of my Father's flocks. Every shepherd who seeks to enter the fold without me shall fail, and the sheep will not hear his voice. I, with those who minister with me, am the door. Every soul who enters upon the eternal way by the means I have created and ordained shall be saved and will be able to go on to the attainment of the eternal pastures of Paradise.

 

"But I also am the true shepherd who is willing even to lay down his life for the sheep. The thief breaks into the fold only to steal, and to kill, and to destroy; but I have come that you all may have life and have it more abundantly. He who is a hireling, when danger arises, will flee and allow the sheep to be scattered and destroyed; but the true shepherd will not flee when the wolf comes; he will protect his flock and, if necessary, lay down his life for his sheep. Verily, verily, I say to you, friends and enemies, I am the true shepherd; I know my own and my own know me. I will not flee in the face of danger. I will finish this service of the completion of my Father's will, and I will not forsake the flock which the Father has intrusted to my keeping.

 

"But I have many other sheep not of this fold, and these words are true not only of this world. These other sheep also hear and know my voice, and I have promised the Father that they shall all be brought into one fold, one brotherhood of the sons of God. And then shall you all know the voice of one shepherd, the true shepherd, and shall all acknowledge the fatherhood of God.

 

"And so shall you know why the Father loves me and has put all of his flocks in this domain in my hands for keeping; it is because the Father knows that I will not falter in the safeguarding of the sheepfold, that I will not desert my sheep, and that, if it shall be required, I will not hesitate to lay down my life in the service of his manifold flocks. But, mind you, if I lay down my life, I will take it up again. No man nor any other creature can take away my life. I have the right and the power to lay down my life, and I have the same power and right to take it up again. You cannot understand this, but I received such authority from my Father even before this world was."
(p. 1819)

 

Jesus declares, ". . . I am both the door to the Father's sheepfold and at the same time the true shepherd of my Father's flocks." Perhaps this is part of what "in me" means.

 

All the best,

Meredith

Edited by Meredith Van Woert

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And he who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Father.

Jesus declares, ". . . I am both the door to the Father's sheepfold and at the same time the true shepherd of my Father's flocks." Perhaps this is part of what "in me" means.

 

Both of these ideas are part of the answer as I see it, but I think there is even more to it than that. Jesus said "in me". These words, along with his words at the last supper, help to explain Jesus' teaching on the Way.

 

179:5.1 As they brought Jesus the third cup of wine, the "cup of blessing," he arose from the couch and, taking the cup in his hands, blessed it, saying: "Take this cup, all of you, and drink of it. This shall be the cup of my remembrance. This is the cup of the blessing of a new dispensation of grace and truth. This shall be to you the emblem of the bestowal and ministry of the divine Spirit of Truth. And I will not again drink this cup with you until I drink in new form with you in the Father's eternal kingdom."

 

Here he is announcing a new dispensation with the coming of the Spirit of Truth. He tells us that he will drink the cup again when he is with us in this new form. For years I thought it meant sometime in the future, in eternity. But now I know that he meant any time we enter the Father's kingdom and accept the Spirit of Truth as a living entity where we live in him and he lives in us. The cup is the emblem of our relationship with him and in him. As we drink up his ministry of grace and truth and give it life, we allow Jesus to live his life anew. We cannot live his life as it was, but we can live it as it is now.

 

179:5.3 When they had finished drinking this new cup of remembrance, the Master took up the bread and, after giving thanks, broke it in pieces and, directing them to pass it around, said: "Take this bread of remembrance and eat it. I have told you that I am the bread of life. And this bread of life is the united life of the Father and the Son in one gift. The word of the Father, as revealed in the Son, is indeed the bread of life." When they had partaken of the bread of remembrance, the symbol of the living word of truth incarnated in the likeness of mortal flesh, they all sat down.

 

Here we are made to understand that Jesus is our sustenance because he is the fullness of the Father revealed. Our spiritual lives depend on this nourishment as if it were the actual Tree of Life. We are told to partake of the living word of truth. Not just the word of truth, but the living word. The whole idea of living truth implies a relationship with truth, and as personalities, we can only have living relationships with other personalities. We need to know Jesus as a person and keep our hearts and minds open to the gospel of his bestowal at all times in order to live the Way he lived it then and continues to live it now. We have to actually get into his mind, or in other words, allow his mind to be in us.

 

p2092:02 Paul's Christianity made sure of the adoration of the divine Christ, but it almost wholly lost sight of the struggling and valiant human Jesus of Galilee, who, by the valor of his personal religious faith and the heroism of his indwelling Adjuster, ascended from the lowly levels of humanity to become one with divinity,
thus becoming the new and living way whereby all mortals may so ascend from humanity to divinity.
Mortals in all stages of spirituality and on all worlds may find in the personal life of Jesus that which will strengthen and inspire them as they progress from the lowest spirit levels up to the highest divine values, from the beginning to the end of all personal religious experience.

 

This quote above clearly says that the Way is new and living, based upon the personal religious life of the human Jesus. We cannot live that specific life, but we can live our lives today in him and thereby partake of that same faith, regardless of whatever spiritual level we are living, because he has experienced each and every one of those levels and will share his experience with us if we allow it. We must live in him and share his faith. Jesus also said that we make daily progress along this new and living way by faith. The Way he offers is deliverance from the bondage of evil, which is the opposite of truth. Hence, he sent his Spirit of Truth to minister to us and deliver us from evil, and this Way is opened up through faith. (And I would also add, living faith.)

 

p.1792:01 I offer you the liberty of life and the joy of salvation. I proclaim
the new and living way, the deliverance from evil
and the breaking of the bondage of sin. I have come that you might have life, and have it eternally.

 

p.1653:02 Some of you may not stand high in actual levels of soul and spirit, but you are making daily progress on
the living way opened up, through faith, to God
. There are tremendous possibilities in each of you for the future.

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"At first I thought it was a giant lake of absolutely still and perfectly clear water nestled in a bucolic valley. In fact, I was so convinced it was water that I was completely shaken when I saw that a few people were walking around on top of it near the perimeter. I recall going up to them and staring intently at their feet while they amusingly watched me until I realized that I was standing on it too. In all of these experiences I had a companion with me at all times."

 

 

Hi, Bonita. You know what's really weird. I just had a dream the other night that a group of us were on a helicopter that landed on the sea and we got out and walked around on the water. I didn't think it was the sea of glass or anything. In fact I forgot about that dream until your post.

 

I dream things that happen in the future. That's really the only thing in my life that is remotely supernatural. That and there was a man in my bedroom when I was 17 years old who appeared and vanished right before my eyes, but other than that unnatural event, nothing.

 

"For instance, I have been to that place you call a university many times, sometimes as a student, sometimes as a teacher and sometimes just as a visitor. There are Melchizedeks there and other creatures just like you and me. And I'll tell you something really weird, I've met one person who is still alive today during what I call a night vision."

 

I would like to hear the whole story of your trips to the university. Maybe we could put it in its own thread or something.

 

 

"You should understand that the morontia life of an ascending mortal is really initiated on the inhabited worlds at the conception of the soul, at that moment when the creature mind of moral status is indwelt by the spirit Adjuster. And from that moment on, the mortal soul has potential capacity for supermortal function, even for recognition on the higher levels of the morontia spheres of the local universe (551)."

 

I never noticed this before. I just never put two and two together to get four on this one. But I believe you are right IF our soul has a body made for it. Remember our discussion a year ago about the soul not having a body fabricated until resurrection? I thought the soul was a body and you said the soul has no body and that's when I realized the impossibility of ghosts hanging around here on the planet. Soul has no body yet. How could it wander around? The bodiless soul has to be carried by a seraphim. You were the one who helped me realize that the newly resurrected Jesus hanging around outside Joseph's tomb talking to Mary Magdelene was the morontia form made for Jesus' soul, not Jesus' soul alone.

Edited by Midsoniter woman

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Hi, Bonita. You know what's really weird. I just had a dream the other night that a group of us were on a helicopter that landed on the sea and we got out and walked around on the water. I didn't think it was the sea of glass or anything. In fact I forgot about that dream until your post.

 

We are told not to read too much into dreams because they are distorted by our material minds, which lacking appropriate filters, allow the muddied subconscious to flow unregulated into the Adjuster's pure stream. There are some dreams like Peter's night vision that have symbolism rich in spiritual significance for the one having the vision. If you recall, the other apostles were not as impressed with Peter's "dream" as he was, but it had great spiritual importance for him and has inspired other religionists throughout the centuries since.

 

Much, very much, depends on the impact of the dream on your waking mind. Did it have a feeling of being real? Did it leave you pondering higher thoughts? Did you feel as though there was something important there that needs further elucidation? I'm not saying that anyone should dwell on their dreams and their meaning, not at all. I am saying from experience that there are some dreams or night visions that impact us spiritually and we should simply be grateful for them and allow them to remain in God's safekeeping for further enlightenment when the time is appropriate.

 

I dream things that happen in the future. That's really the only thing in my life that is remotely supernatural. That and there was a man in my bedroom when I was 17 years old who appeared and vanished right before my eyes, but other than that unnatural event, nothing.

 

You're not alone. Many of my dreams are prophetic, even those which are highly tainted with crazy subconscious symbolism. For example: If you recall, I mentioned that I, and my husband, had a "guru" back in the late "60's early '70's when Eastern religions were all the rage. This person had a great deal of money and lived on a large estate where many of the cult lived and/or worked. There were several meetings every week which were only for the men, women being told that they were meant to spiritually serve in other ways than learning the higher and more difficult lessons which were being taught to the men. This never sat well with me, plus this individual psychologically battered me by repeatedly telling me that I was spiritually inept and would never, ever see enlightenment. He made me clean his house and iron his clothes so that I could learn to master myself.

 

One night I had a vivid dream of him walking about with a giant mushroom growing out of his back. He was very much burdened by it and somewhat ashamed. I told him about the dream and was surprised to see a look of horror on his face. He refused to talk about it. Weeks later it was disclosed that he was having sex with my husband and many of the men that went to those closed meetings. Worse yet, he never studied with a guru himself and his so called PhD in religion was phony. My dream was insight into the mushrooming shame he was burdened with. I see my dream as the result of an astute subconscious reading of his soul revealed in symbolic language. I don't think it came from my superconscious, but my decision to reveal the dream probably did since he then realized the transparency of his facade and allowed it to fall opening his soul to salvation. I, of course, had no conscious idea of what was happening and only fully understood it in hind sight.

 

I would like to hear the whole story of your trips to the university. Maybe we could put it in its own thread or something.

 

I'm worried that I'm going to get my account deleted if I tell much more, but I'll take a slight chance in telling this one story. I think it was 7-8 years ago I was having an e-mail conversation with someone in the para-Urantia movement, attempting to learn more about what was "out there" concerning the book. I mentioned to this person about a dream, actually a night vision, concerning the university. He was rather excited and sent an emissary to visit me in order to get more information. Turns out, it was the group awaiting the Magisterial Mission (I didn't much understand it then) and they were wanting to establish universities for the Mission, or in preparation for the Mission, I don't really know for sure. Anyway, this person left very unhappy about what I told him.

 

The university I visited is all about life and living. It is a school of life; a practical school of thinking, feeling and doing where priorities are set according to the ability to perceive value and then learning to apply it right within one's everyday life with all its warts and impurities. Every time I've visited, the visit had something to do with my life and how I'm living it, lived it, want to live it or need to live it. It was about sharing and growing, seeing with new eyes, understanding mistakes, feeling with a bigger heart and gaining in conviction and courage to keep moving forward. I don't know how you establish a brick and mortar school on earth like that . . . (other stories along that line, but they're probably not appropriate for this venue.)

 

"You should understand that the morontia life of an ascending mortal is really initiated on the inhabited worlds at the conception of the soul, at that moment when the creature mind of moral status is indwelt by the spirit Adjuster. And from that moment on, the mortal soul has potential capacity for supermortal function, even for recognition on the higher levels of the morontia spheres of the local universe (551)."

 

I never noticed this before. I just never put two and two together to get four on this one. But I believe you are right IF our soul has a body made for it. Remember our discussion a year ago about the soul not having a body fabricated until resurrection? I thought the soul was a body and you said the soul has no body and that's when I realized the impossibility of ghosts hanging around here on the planet. Soul has no body yet. How could it wander around? The bodiless soul has to be carried by a seraphim. You were the one who helped me realize that the newly resurrected Jesus hanging around outside Joseph's tomb talking to Mary Magdelene was the morontia form made for Jesus' soul, not Jesus' soul alone.

 

Just a few thoughts for you here, but first I'm glad to hear that I did something helpful with all my jabbering on this site. First, TUB tells us that they have no idea what happened to Jesus' soul after the resurrection. Some believe it was resurrected with him in his morontia form, other believe that it lies in the "bosom of the Father".

 

188:3.4 We heard him say, "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit." We do not fully understand the meaning of such a statement inasmuch as his Thought Adjuster had long since been personalized and so maintained an existence apart from Jesus' mortal being. The Master's Personalized Adjuster could in no sense be affected by his physical death on the cross. That which Jesus put in the Father's hands for the time being must have been the spirit counterpart of the Adjuster's early work in spiritizing the mortal mind so as to provide for the transfer of the transcript of the human experience to the mansion worlds.
There must have been some spiritual reality in the experience of Jesus which was analogous to the spirit nature, or soul, of the faith-growing mortals of the spheres. But this is merely our opinion—we do not really know what Jesus commended to his Father.

 

188:3.8 The acquired spirit identity of the man of Nazareth which was built up during his lifetime in the flesh, first, by the direct efforts of his Thought Adjuster, and later, by his own perfect adjustment between the physical necessities and the spiritual requirements of the ideal mortal existence, as it was effected by his never-ceasing choice of the Father's will, must have been consigned to the custody of the Paradise Father.
Whether or not this spirit reality returned to become a part of the resurrected personality, we do not know, but we believe it did. But there are those in the universe who hold that this soul-identity of Jesus now reposes in the "bosom of the Father," to be subsequently released for leadership of the Nebadon Corps of the Finality
in their undisclosed destiny in connection with the uncreated universes of the unorganized realms of outer space.

 

In terms of the soul having the " . . . capacity for supermortal function, even for recognition on the higher levels of the morontia spheres of the local universe", I think the quote I gave earlier about the Thought Adjuster disengaging during sleep gives us a clue about how this happens. I admit that there is an element of speculation here and I could be wrong. Here's the quote again and another one:

 

48.6.12 When the apostle spoke of being “caught up to the third heaven,” he referred to that experience in which his Adjuster was detached during sleep and in this unusual state made a projection to the third of the seven mansion worlds.

 

77.7.5 This was accomplished in much the same way as the loyal midway creatures function when they serve as efficient contact guardians of the human minds of the Urantia reserve corps of destiny at those times when the Adjuster is, in effect, detached from the personality during a season of contact with superhuman intelligences.

 

I don't think it is possible for the soul to have supermortal function or to be recognized on the morontia spheres without the Thought Adjuster being present. I believe that the soul must be accompanied by the Adjuster who reveals these things to "spiritual eyes". It is a matter of soul-consciousness which permits the awareness of such events by the anointing of our "spiritual eyes". We are told that we are all destined to be able to see with "spiritual eyes" someday and that this is actually necessary in order for Michael to return. I'm guessing that everyone will have to have soul-consciousness and be functioning on higher psychic circles in order for this to happen. I also believe that Thought Adjusters are capable of making the mind aware of these spiritual sojourns even if there is only rudimentary soul-consciousness.

 

167.7.4 “And do you not remember that I said to you once before that, if you had your spiritual eyes anointed, you would then see the heavens opened and behold the angels of God ascending and descending?

 

176.4.5 Only one thing we are certain of, that is, when he does return, all the world will likely know about it, for he must come as the supreme ruler of a universe and not as the obscure babe of Bethlehem. But if every eye is to behold him, and if only spiritual eyes are to discern his presence, then must his advent be long deferred.

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Hello Teobeck, bonita, all,

 

I want to remind readers that Thought Adjusters are pre- personal. They are not persons, and they are not visible:

 

No one, myself included, dare dash one's personal experience. On the other hand I wonder how these types of experiences advance the teachings of Jesus on our world. Do these varied experiences make one a better person? A better righteousness recommender?

 

All the best,

Meredith

 

  • 110:1.2 I wish it were possible for me to help evolving mortals to achieve a better understanding and attain a fuller appreciation of the unselfish and superb work of the Adjusters living within them, who are so devoutly faithful to the task of fostering man's spiritual welfare. These Monitors are efficient ministers to the higher phases of men's minds; they are wise and experienced manipulators of the spiritual potential of the human intellect. These heavenly helpers are dedicated to the stupendous task of guiding you safely inward and upward to the celestial haven of happiness. These tireless toilers are consecrated to the future personification of the triumph of divine truth in your life everlasting. They are the watchful workers who pilot the God-conscious human mind away from the shoals of evil while expertly guiding the evolving soul of man toward the divine harbors of perfection on far-distant and eternal shores. The Adjusters are loving leaders, your safe and sure guides through the dark and uncertain mazes of your short earthly career; they are the patient teachers who so constantly urge their subjects forward in the paths of progressive perfection. They are the careful custodians of the sublime values of creature character. I wish you could love them more, co-operate with them more fully, and cherish them more affectionately.

  • 5:2.4 It is because of this God fragment that indwells you that you can hope, as you progress in harmonizing with the Adjuster's spiritual leadings, more fully to discern the presence and transforming power of those other spiritual influences that surround you and impinge upon you but do not function as an integral part of you. The fact that you are not intellectually conscious of close and intimate contact with the indwelling Adjuster does not in the least disprove such an exalted experience. The proof of fraternity with the divine Adjuster consists wholly in the nature and extent of the fruits of the spirit which are yielded in the life experience of the individual believer. "By their fruits you shall know them."

 

  • 5:2.5 It is exceedingly difficult for the meagerly spiritualized, material mind of mortal man to experience marked consciousness of the spirit activities of such divine entities as the Paradise Adjusters. As the soul of joint mind and Adjuster creation becomes increasingly existent, there also evolves a new phase of soul consciousness which is capable of experiencing the presence, and of recognizing the spirit leadings and other supermaterial activities, of the Mystery Monitors.
  • 5:1.5 However Urantia mortals may differ in their intellectual, social, economic, and even moral opportunities and endowments, forget not that their spiritual endowment is uniform and unique. They all enjoy the same divine presence of the gift from the Father, and they are all equally privileged to seek intimate personal communion with this indwelling spirit of divine origin, while they may all equally choose to accept the uniform spiritual leading of these Mystery Monitors.

I think there is something to be said about the Thought Adjusters being the "impersonal presence of the Universal Father," yet they are always being spoken of as being "loving leaders", "delighted to contribute to your health, happiness, and true prosperity," and in 110:0.1 "As far as I am conversant with the affairs of a universe, I regard the love and devotion of a Thought Adjuster as the most truly divine affection in all creation." That doesn't sound "impersonal" to me.

 

There are many other instances throughout The Urantia Book that speak of the Adjuster in this way and makes me reconsider what "pre-personal" and "impersonal" might have meant to the revelators that we might not be understanding correctly.

 

The dictionary says: impersonal is "not engaging the human personality or emotions", and " not existing as a person : not having human qualities or characteristics"

 

If this is so, and The Urantia Book asks us to love them more, says we can have an intimate, personal relationship with them and realize their love for us, then somewhere we have not understood the reality of who and what the Thought Adjuster is, nor have we understood the true meaning of "pre-personal" and "impersonal."

 

The Urantia Book also says that only a person can love another person and yet we are asked to love and to realize the love of our Adjusters. How can this be?

 

I think the more our souls evolve and the more soul conscious we become of our Thought Adjuster the more "personal" he becomes. I also think "pre-personal" may mean "having the potential of becoming personal."

 

Any thoughts?

 

Old Soul

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I also think "pre-personal" may mean "having the potential of becoming personal." [/size]

 

Any thoughts?[/size][/font][/size][/font][/sup][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font]

 

Old Soul

 

Hello Old Soul, all,

 

I think you are on the money with this: a TA has "the potential of becoming personal", as well as an opportunity.

 

All the best,

Meredith

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Actually, what is meant by pre-personal is simply the withholding of will in deference to the will of the host personality. Personality and freewill are a package; the Adjuster's will is prewill rather than freewill which makes him also pre-personal. When the human and divine will fuse as one, so do the personalities. At least that is as simple as I can explain it. TUB does a better job, but sometimes you can read the same quote over and over and become numb to what it really means.

 

p.1205:03 You as a personal creature have mind and will. The Adjuster as a prepersonal creature has premind and prewill. If you so fully conform to the Adjuster's mind that you see eye to eye, then your minds become one, and you receive the reinforcement of the Adjuster's mind. Subsequently, if your will orders and enforces the execution of the decisions of this new or combined mind, the Adjuster's prepersonal will attains to personality expression through your decision, and as far as that particular project is concerned, you and the Adjuster are one. Your mind has attained to divinity attunement, and the Adjuster's will has achieved personality expression.

To the extent that this identity is realized, you are mentally approaching the morontia order of existence.
Morontia mind is a term signifying the substance and sum total of the co-operating minds of diversely material and spiritual natures. Morontia intellect, therefore, connotes a dual mind in the local universe dominated by one will. And with mortals this is a will, human in origin, which is becoming divine through man's identification of the human mind with the mindedness of God.

 

Now, what is also interesting in this quote is the presentation of the idea of premind and the ability to be reinforced by the Adjuster's mind which allows one to experience the function of the morontia mind. In my opinion, this happens at the soul level and is another reason why some people are able to recall visions of the heavens and experience the morontia life while living a mortal life in the flesh. Another thing to note is that if we are not able to be reinforced by the Adjuster's mind for some reason, then we are most certainly able to be reinforced by the Master's mind who more clearly understands the handicaps of the material mind.

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Morontia intellect, therefore, connotes a dual mind in the local universe dominated by one will

 

So, by logical deduction, as well as spiritual insight, it is purposed that spirit "intellect" would connote not only one mind, but one will dominating that mind and that is what we are meant to achieve in our ascension careers.

Edited by Old Soul

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