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Rick Warren

Personality in the Revelation

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p71.1 5:6.6 The material self is truly and unqualifiedly personal.

 

5.6.3
Personality is potential in all creatures who possess a mind endowment
ranging from the minimum of self-consciousness to the maximum of God-consciousness.

 

Personality may be material or spiritual,
but there either is personality or there is no personality
. The other-than-personal never attains the level of the personal except by the direct act of the Paradise Father.

 

 

Yes, it's true that Michael disappeared before conception!!! He didn't wait until the fetus was in the first trimester to have the goodbye party and vanish. If the fetus was just a lump of flesh, Michael could have waited the whole nine months to leave Salvington and appear as a newborn. I'm going with personality at conception. Yay! I never even thought about that before you mentioned it. Michael was actually inside Mary's body, missing from Salvington the whole pregnancy. It's so true.

 

These quotes are really helpful here. Good work. It would seem from this quote that a personality would require a brain, but everything the brain needs to form is already genetically encoded in the conception. And from this quote it would seem that there can't be both personality and no personality. It's definitely super-animal. It is a material self.

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5.6.3 Personality is potential in all creatures who possess a mind endowment ranging from the minimum of self-consciousness to the maximum of God-consciousness.

 

This quote can be misleading, at least it appears to be contradictory, but I don't think it is. It says that personality is potential in creatures with a minimum of self-consciousness. Yet, we know from TUB that self-consciousness is a feature of personality. Self-consciousness does not appear without personality being present, as far as I know, so how can it be potential in a mind that displays self-consciousness? TUB tells us that self-consciousness means awareness of one's own personality, which would seem to mean that they co-exist.

 

16.8.5 Creature personality is distinguished by two self-manifesting and characteristic phenomena of mortal reactive behavior: self-consciousness and associated relative free will.

 

Or, can the child simply be an animal mind without personality until the child's mind contacts higher spirit-adjutants and receives the Adjuster?

 

133.7.6 My son, I have already told you much about the mind of man and the divine spirit that lives therein, but now let me emphasize that self-consciousness is a reality.
When any animal becomes self-conscious, it becomes a primitive man.
Such an attainment results from a co-ordination of function between impersonal energy and spirit-conceiving mind, and it is this phenomenon which warrants the bestowal of an absolute focal point for the human personality, the spirit of the Father in heaven.

 

It would seem to me that if the child were without personality he/she would not be able to lovingly interact with other personalities, and we know that they do prior to the age of 5.

 

16.9.7 Man’s own
personality awareness, self-consciousness,
is also directly dependent on this very fact of innate other-awareness, this innate ability to
recognize and grasp the reality of other personality
, ranging from the human to the divine.

 

I think what they mean is divine personality is potential in the human personality beginning with self-consciousness and eventually arriving at God-consciousness. But what do they mean by God-consciousness? It appears that spirit-consciousness and God-consciousness mean the same thing.

 

p2097:2 196:3.31 The great challenge to modern man is to achieve better communication with the divine Monitor that dwells within the human mind. Man's greatest adventure in the flesh consists in the well-balanced and sane effort to advance the borders of self-consciousness out through the dim realms of embryonic soul-consciousness in a wholehearted effort to reach the borderland of
spirit-consciousness—contact with the divine presence. Such an experience constitutes God-consciousness, an experience mightily confirmative of the pre-existent truth of the religious experience of knowing God.
Such spirit-consciousness is the equivalent of the knowledge of the actuality of sonship with God. Otherwise, the assurance of sonship is the experience of faith.

 

Yet, TUB tells us that there are three levels of God-consciousness culminating in the realization of the personality of God. It appears that our human personalities get acquainted with themselves first, known as self-consciousness; then with the other-than-self TUB calls the alter ego (other-mindedness of self-hood), or mind-consciousness, or the idea of God; then goes on to realize soul consciousness, or the ideal of God; and finally actual spirit-consciousness, or the reality of God.

 

102.4.3 Man very early becomes conscious that he is not alone in the world or the universe. There develops a natural spontaneous self-consciousness of other-mindness in the environment of selfhood. Faith translates this natural experience into religion, the recognition of God as the reality — source, nature, and destiny — of other-mindness.

 

p69:6 5:5.11 God-consciousness, as it is experienced by an evolving mortal of the realms, must consist of three varying factors, three differential levels of reality realization. There is first the mind consciousness—the comprehension of the
idea
of God. Then follows the soul consciousness—the realization of the
ideal
of God. Last, dawns the spirit consciousness—the realization of the
spirit reality
of God. By the unification of these factors of the divine realization, no matter how incomplete, the mortal personality at all times overspreads all conscious levels with a realization of the personality of God.

 

To me, it sounds as though spirit-consciousness is the highest level of God-consciousness. It also appears that personality is essential for all of this beginning with self-consciousness all the way up to spirit-consciousness, actual contact with God (Adjuster). And the great news is that all of this can potentially happen while still in the flesh. So, potential personality starts with self-consciousness and becomes actual personality, or real personality, or personality realization when it attains spirit-consciousness and realizes what was once potential in the personality of God. It seems to me though, that to actually realize the personality of God would require the fusion of the personality with the pre-personality of God. But, I speculate.

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[...] But, I speculate.

And I, for one, am very glad you do :lol: But seriously, thanks to all you guys for what may be the most interesting discussion of Personality ever conducted on this beautiful backward world. I can't help but imagine "student observers" enjoying (and learning much about us from) this discussion too!

 

Another twist to the plot comes to mind: personality is actual stuff. It is the one stuff which gravitates towards it's unique source and center. But both the stuff and it's source are not finite. They both exist in a state and a realm where reality is not sliced up in a sequence. So how on earth do we begin to locate such an unchanging seed of the absolute in a finite and transient space moving through time?

 

This (for me) raises another two-pipe problem: how on earth do Adjusters and we personalized ascenders find each other? I think this may be the problem that Michael is solving for his Father. Think about Michael teaching his Life-Carrier babies how to evolve life forms like us. Imagine then for Michael to see his Father's plan begin to work, to see such minded bodies as ours serve as womb in which two absolute components of His father can first find, then fertilize each other.

 

That Adjusters and personalized ascenders can find each other, and have their moment of opportunity to become one, says a lot about the nature and purpose of the local universe our Michael has been able to create. When we take a moment from our personal fellowship with Michael, notice how cool he is: the guy actually built Nebadon! Then he filled it with literally billions of his personal non-mortal children, and enjoyed this epitome of family life for a hundred billion years! Then came that universe changing moment:

 

"And then, when such a universe has been so completely organized and so repletely manned, does

the Creator Son enter into the Father’s proposal to create mortal man in their divine image." [32:2.8]

To go to such trouble to raise us up, to make possible our subinfinite penetration of the absolute, says a lot about us, as persons.

Nigel

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Another twist to the plot comes to mind: personality is actual stuff. It is the one stuff which gravitates towards it's unique source and center. But both the stuff and it's source are not finite. They both exist in a state and a realm where reality is not sliced up in a sequence. So how on earth do we begin to locate such an unchanging seed of the absolute in a finite and transient space moving through time?

 

Personality gravity, as we know it, appears when there is an association of material gravity, spiritual gravity and mind gravity.

 

9.6.3 Mind gravity can operate independently of material and spiritual gravity, but wherever and whenever the latter two impinge, mind gravity always functions.
When all three are associated, personality gravity may embrace the material creature — physical or morontial, finite or absonite.
But irrespective of this, the endowment of mind even in impersonal beings qualifies them to think and endows them with consciousness despite the total absence of personality.

 

But then we are told that this association is not necessarily a prerequisite to personality gravity. In other words, being responsive to some form of gravity is not necessary for personality gravity to function. But, it appears that mind gravity is usually present. [As an aside, I'm acutely interested in knowing what would constitute a mind-material being with personality who is unresponsive to spirit-gravity. Is that a human person who is functioning with only the lower adjutants, like a baby?]

 

9.6.4 Selfhood of personality dignity, human or divine, immortal or potentially immortal, does not however originate in either spirit, mind, or matter; it is the bestowal of the Universal Father.
Neither is the interaction of spirit, mind, and material gravity a prerequisite to the appearance of personality gravity
. The Father’s circuit may embrace a
mind-material
being who is unresponsive to spirit gravity, or it may include a
mind-spirit
being who is unresponsive to material gravity. The operation of personality gravity is always a volitional act of the Universal Father.

 

We are told that mind is the arena in which personality gravity functions. It seems to me that mind is the mechanism by which: "we begin to locate such an unchanging seed of the absolute in a finite and transient space moving through time".

 

p1216.4 111:1.3 Material mind is the arena in which human personalities live, are self-conscious, make decisions, choose God or forsake him, eternalize or destroy themselves.

 

This (for me) raises another two-pipe problem: how on earth do Adjusters and we personalized ascenders find each other? I think this may be the problem that Michael is solving for his Father. . . That Adjusters and personalized ascenders can find each other, and have their moment of opportunity to become one, says a lot about the nature and purpose of the local universe our Michael has been able to create. . . . To go to such trouble to raise us up, to make possible our subinfinite penetration of the absolute, says a lot about us, as persons.

 

I think this quote addresses your two-pipe question. I don't think that it is Michael's creation as much as it is Michael's incarnation and bestowal that enables Adjusters and humans to find each other. It was the successful completion of Michael's bestowal that allowed Adjusters to flock to this planet to indwell all normal-minded individuals.

 

p30.2 1:6.3 Never lose sight of the antipodal viewpoints of personality as it is conceived by God and man. Man views and comprehends personality, looking from the finite to the infinite; God looks from the infinite to the finite. Man possesses the lowest type of personality; God, the highest, even supreme, ultimate, and absolute.
Therefore did the better concepts of the divine personality have patiently to await the appearance of improved ideas of human personality, especially the enhanced revelation of both human and divine personality in the Urantian bestowal life of Michael, the Creator Son
.

 

34.5.4 When mind is thus endowed with the ministry of the Holy Spirit, it possesses the capacity for (consciously or unconsciously) choosing the spiritual presence of the Universal Father — the Thought Adjuster.
But it is not until a bestowal Son has liberated the Spirit of Truth for planetary ministry to all mortals that all normal minds are automatically prepared for the reception of the Thought Adjusters
.

 

108.6.2 No matter what the previous status of the inhabitants of a world, subsequent to the bestowal of a divine Son and
after the bestowal of the Spirit of Truth upon all humans, the Adjusters flock to such a world to indwell the minds of all normal will creatures
.

 

194.2.3
This bestowal of the Son’s spirit effectively prepared all normal men’s minds for the subsequent universal bestowal of the Father’s spirit (the Adjuster) upon all mankind
. In a certain sense, this Spirit of Truth is the spirit of both the Universal Father and the Creator Son.

 

There's another thing that I'd like to point out, and that is the proper use of the term "ascender". We cannot call ourselves ascenders until after fusion. Prior to fusion we are called faith-sons.

 

40.6.1 You will be
reckoned as ascending sons the instant fusion takes place
, but the status of the mortals of time and space is that of
faith sons prior to the event
of the final amalgamation of the surviving mortal soul with some type of eternal and immortal spirit.

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