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tripageous

End Times/Apocolypse ect.

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Hello all,

In the biblical books of daniel and revelation, and certain gospels, it explaines that urantia will eventually be destroyed by god and all humans will go through a "final judgement". i have searched through the urantia book somewhat and am unable to find any information regarding these end time prophecies. Does the uranta book mention the end times at all or at least explain the human mis conceptions of the prophets that recieved these revalations?

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Welcome tripageous.

 

God came to earth and told us and showed us the way to become like God and by following him to progress to the stautus of an eternal growing spiritual being from our present lowly estate. Immediately he died his followers ignored just about everything he attempted to teach them and went out and deranged the simple message of The Fatherhood of God and The Brotherhood of Man- the ONLY thing that Jesus ever taught.

 

From seeing the empty tomb, we get the bodily resurrection of the dead ( and the modern day american funeral industry.)

 

From Jesus' promise that he will "come again," we get this idea that the kingdom is something that will come in the future when Jesus returns, not here already in our hearts.

 

So many literal interpretations ABOUT Jesus

 

or

 

concentrating on the personality of the Man

 

 

and

 

so little about the truths he lived and taught.

 

THIS IS A FORUM FOR THE STUDY OF THE URANTIA BOOK

 

The Urantia book will change the world because it has what man needs most to know right now-The life of Jesus and HOW HE LIVED IT!

Written by permanent residents of Urantia, the United Midwayers, who were there at His birth in the manger and were there at his death on Golgotha and marvelled when he raised himself up on Easter Morning. When you read the book from front to back sincerely, youcan not help but experience character growth and develop more spiritual insight. The Fifth Epochal Revelation cannot be crucified (although some are trying) and because it is a book, it's message is there for all to read and understand if they take the effort. It could be burned, but before that can happen, it should effect so much positive change that it is unlikely.

 

Lets look at what the book has to say...

 

 

P.1120 - §4 Evolutionary man does not naturally relish hard work. To keep pace in his life experience with the impelling demands and the compelling urges of a growing religious experience means incessant activity in spiritual growth, intellectual expansion, factual enlargement, and social service. There is no real religion apart from a highly active personality. Therefore do the more indolent of men often seek to escape the rigors of truly religious activities by a species of ingenious self-deception through resorting to a retreat to the false shelter of stereotyped religious doctrines and dogmas. But true religion is alive. Intellectual crystallization of religious concepts is the equivalent of spiritual death. You cannot conceive of religion without ideas, but when religion once becomes

P.1121 - §0 reduced only to an idea, it is no longer religion; it has become merely a species of human philosophy.

 

 

The religions of authority make it easy, too easy, to get your "religious fix" every week and feel you are right with the universe. The religions of revelation challenge the believer to make something of himself.

 

P.66 - §5 The morality of the religions of evolution drives men forward in the God quest by the motive power of fear. The religions of revelation allure men to seek for a God of love because they crave to become like him. But religion is not merely a passive feeling of "absolute dependence" and "surety of survival"; it is a living and dynamic experience of divinity attainment predicated on humanity service.

 

 

 

 

P.381 - §5 The Spirit never drives, only leads.

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i under stand that. but my question was does the UB make reference at all to the very descriptive prophecys of the end times in the books of daniel and revelation? daniel was written before jesus' time. were his dreams divine visions? if so is the end of earth and its inhabitants just some sort of misinterpretation of them?

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Yes Trip,

 

It was a misinterpretation, or a mangled reproduction of a personal revelation by successors.

 

The 'end times' in the UB are only the beginning---of light and life, thank God.

 

$.02 Rick

 

 

i under stand that. but my question was does the UB make reference at all to the very descriptive prophecys of the end times in the books of daniel and revelation? daniel was written before jesus' time. were his dreams divine visions? if so is the end of earth and its inhabitants just some sort of misinterpretation of them?

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Hi All;

 

I find it ironic that the Christian end times Jesus is what the Jews were expecting from the Messiah.

 

[Kill all the bad guys and save only all the good guys ]

 

Good guys were Jews now Christians bet if you asked Muslims you get another answer(:

 

as to intial question;

 

P.41 - §5 God is never wrathful, vengeful, or angry. It is true that wisdom does often restrain his love, while justice conditions his rejected mercy. His love of righteousness cannot help being exhibited as equal hatred for sin.

 

The Father is not an inconsistent personality; the divine unity is perfect. In the Paradise Trinity there is absolute unity despite the eternal identities of the co-ordinates of God.

 

 

P.1675 - §3 "My children, I am not surprised that you ask such questions. In the beginning it was only through fear that man could learn reverence, but I have come to reveal the Father's love so that you will be attracted to the worship of the Eternal by the drawing of a son's affectionate recognition and reciprocation of the Father's profound and perfect love.

 

I would deliver you from the bondage of driving yourselves through slavish fear to the irksome service of a jealous and wrathful King-God. I would instruct you in the Father-son relationship of God and man so that you may be joyfully led into that sublime and supernal free worship of a loving, just, and merciful Father-God.

 

P.1555 - §7 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John's writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.

 

P.1500 - §2 About one hundred years before the days of Jesus and John a new school of religious teachers arose in Palestine, the apocalyptists. These new teachers evolved a system of belief that accounted for the sufferings and humiliation of the Jews on the ground that they were paying the penalty for the nation's sins.

 

They fell back onto the well-known reasons assigned to explain the Babylonian and other captivities of former times. But, so taught the apocalyptists, Israel should take heart; the days of their affliction were almost over; the discipline of God's chosen people was about finished;

 

God's patience with the gentile foreigners was about exhausted. The end of Roman rule was synonymous with the end of the age and, in a certain sense, with the end of the world. These new teachers leaned heavily on the predictions of Daniel, and they consistently taught that creation was about to pass into its final stage;

 

the kingdoms of this world were about to become the kingdom of God. To the Jewish mind of that day this was the meaning of that phrase--the kingdom of heaven--which runs throughout the teachings of both John and Jesus. To the Jews of Palestine the phrase "kingdom of heaven" had but one meaning: an absolutely righteous state in which God (the Messiah) would rule the nations of earth in perfection of power just as he ruled in heaven--"Your will be done on earth as in heaven."

 

P.1913 - §5 Even after this explicit warning, many of Jesus' followers interpreted these predictions as referring to the changes which would obviously occur in Jerusalem when the reappearing of the Messiah would result in the establishment of the New Jerusalem and in the enlargement of the city to become the world's capital.

 

In their minds these Jews were determined to connect the destruction of the temple with the "end of the world." They believed this New Jerusalem would fill all Palestine; that the end of the world would be followed by the immediate

 

P.1918 - §5 Jesus did, on numerous occasions and to many individuals, declare his intention of returning to this world. As his followers awakened to the fact that their Master was not going to function as a temporal deliverer, and as they listened to his predictions of the overthrow of Jerusalem and the downfall of the Jewish nation, they most naturally began to associate his promised return with these catastrophic events.

 

But when the Roman armies leveled the walls of Jerusalem, destroyed the temple, and dispersed the Judean Jews, and still the Master did not reveal himself in power and glory, his followers began the formulation of that belief which eventually associated the second coming of Christ with the end of the age, even with the end of the world.

 

BUT THIS IS A LITTLE AMBIGIOUS;

 

P.1932 - §2 Throughout the vicissitudes of life, remember always to love one another. Do not strive with men, even with unbelievers. Show mercy even to those who despitefully abuse you. Show yourselves to be loyal citizens, upright artisans, praiseworthy neighbors, devoted kinsmen, understanding parents, and sincere believers in the brotherhood of the Father's kingdom. And my spirit shall be upon you, now and even to the end of the world.

 

 

AND IF YOUR WORRIED;

 

P.1916 - §2 "And even you, Thomas, fail to comprehend what I have been saying. Have I not all this time taught you that your connection with the kingdom is spiritual and individual, wholly a matter of personal experience in the spirit by the faith-realization that you are a son of God? What more shall I say?

 

The downfall of nations, the crash of empires, the destruction of the unbelieving Jews, the end of an age, even the end of the world, what have these things to do with one who believes this gospel, and who has hid his life in the surety of the eternal kingdom?

 

You who are God-knowing and gospel-believing have already received the assurances of eternal life. Since your lives have been lived in the spirit and for the Father, nothing can be of serious concern to you. Kingdom builders, the accredited citizens of the heavenly worlds, are not to be disturbed by temporal upheavals or perturbed by terrestrial cataclysms.

 

What does it matter to you who believe this gospel of the kingdom if nations overturn, the age ends, or all things visible crash, since you know that your life is the gift of the Son, and that it is eternally secure in the Father? Having lived the temporal life by faith and having yielded the fruits of the spirit as the righteousness of loving service for your fellows, you can confidently look forward to the next step in the eternal career with the same survival faith that has carried you through your first and earthly adventure in sonship with God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes Trip,

 

It was a misinterpretation, or a mangled reproduction of a personal revelation by successors.

 

The 'end times' in the UB are only the beginning---of light and life, thank God.

 

$.02 Rick

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what about the possibility of us humans destroying the earth or life on it ourselves via nuclear war, global warming, consumption of natural resources, ect.. do u think celestial beings would step in to prevent this, or would they let nature take its course? and considering the vastness of the universe im willing to guess this likely would of happened to other species on other planets too maybe?

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P.1253 - §7 A Most High observer is empowered, at his discretion, to seize the planetary government in times of grave planetary crises, and it is of record that this has happened thirty-three times in the history of Urantia. At such times the Most High observer functions as the Most High regent, exercising unquestioned authority over all ministers and administrators resident on the planet excepting only the divisional organization of the archangels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi All;

 

I find it ironic that the Christian end times Jesus is what the Jews were expecting from the Messiah.

 

[Kill all the bad guys and save only all the good guys ]

 

Good guys were Jews now Christians bet if you asked Muslims you get another answer(:

 

as to intial question;

 

P.41 - §5 God is never wrathful, vengeful, or angry. It is true that wisdom does often restrain his love, while justice conditions his rejected mercy. His love of righteousness cannot help being exhibited as equal hatred for sin.

 

The Father is not an inconsistent personality; the divine unity is perfect. In the Paradise Trinity there is absolute unity despite the eternal identities of the co-ordinates of God.

 

 

P.1675 - §3 "My children, I am not surprised that you ask such questions. In the beginning it was only through fear that man could learn reverence, but I have come to reveal the Father's love so that you will be attracted to the worship of the Eternal by the drawing of a son's affectionate recognition and reciprocation of the Father's profound and perfect love.

 

I would deliver you from the bondage of driving yourselves through slavish fear to the irksome service of a jealous and wrathful King-God. I would instruct you in the Father-son relationship of God and man so that you may be joyfully led into that sublime and supernal free worship of a loving, just, and merciful Father-God.

 

P.1555 - §7 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John's writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.

 

P.1500 - §2 About one hundred years before the days of Jesus and John a new school of religious teachers arose in Palestine, the apocalyptists. These new teachers evolved a system of belief that accounted for the sufferings and humiliation of the Jews on the ground that they were paying the penalty for the nation's sins.

 

They fell back onto the well-known reasons assigned to explain the Babylonian and other captivities of former times. But, so taught the apocalyptists, Israel should take heart; the days of their affliction were almost over; the discipline of God's chosen people was about finished;

 

God's patience with the gentile foreigners was about exhausted. The end of Roman rule was synonymous with the end of the age and, in a certain sense, with the end of the world. These new teachers leaned heavily on the predictions of Daniel, and they consistently taught that creation was about to pass into its final stage;

 

the kingdoms of this world were about to become the kingdom of God. To the Jewish mind of that day this was the meaning of that phrase--the kingdom of heaven--which runs throughout the teachings of both John and Jesus. To the Jews of Palestine the phrase "kingdom of heaven" had but one meaning: an absolutely righteous state in which God (the Messiah) would rule the nations of earth in perfection of power just as he ruled in heaven--"Your will be done on earth as in heaven."

 

P.1913 - §5 Even after this explicit warning, many of Jesus' followers interpreted these predictions as referring to the changes which would obviously occur in Jerusalem when the reappearing of the Messiah would result in the establishment of the New Jerusalem and in the enlargement of the city to become the world's capital.

 

In their minds these Jews were determined to connect the destruction of the temple with the "end of the world." They believed this New Jerusalem would fill all Palestine; that the end of the world would be followed by the immediate

 

P.1918 - §5 Jesus did, on numerous occasions and to many individuals, declare his intention of returning to this world. As his followers awakened to the fact that their Master was not going to function as a temporal deliverer, and as they listened to his predictions of the overthrow of Jerusalem and the downfall of the Jewish nation, they most naturally began to associate his promised return with these catastrophic events.

 

But when the Roman armies leveled the walls of Jerusalem, destroyed the temple, and dispersed the Judean Jews, and still the Master did not reveal himself in power and glory, his followers began the formulation of that belief which eventually associated the second coming of Christ with the end of the age, even with the end of the world.

 

BUT THIS IS A LITTLE AMBIGIOUS;

 

P.1932 - §2 Throughout the vicissitudes of life, remember always to love one another. Do not strive with men, even with unbelievers. Show mercy even to those who despitefully abuse you. Show yourselves to be loyal citizens, upright artisans, praiseworthy neighbors, devoted kinsmen, understanding parents, and sincere believers in the brotherhood of the Father's kingdom. And my spirit shall be upon you, now and even to the end of the world.

 

 

AND IF YOUR WORRIED;

 

P.1916 - §2 "And even you, Thomas, fail to comprehend what I have been saying. Have I not all this time taught you that your connection with the kingdom is spiritual and individual, wholly a matter of personal experience in the spirit by the faith-realization that you are a son of God? What more shall I say?

 

The downfall of nations, the crash of empires, the destruction of the unbelieving Jews, the end of an age, even the end of the world, what have these things to do with one who believes this gospel, and who has hid his life in the surety of the eternal kingdom?

 

You who are God-knowing and gospel-believing have already received the assurances of eternal life. Since your lives have been lived in the spirit and for the Father, nothing can be of serious concern to you. Kingdom builders, the accredited citizens of the heavenly worlds, are not to be disturbed by temporal upheavals or perturbed by terrestrial cataclysms.

 

What does it matter to you who believe this gospel of the kingdom if nations overturn, the age ends, or all things visible crash, since you know that your life is the gift of the Son, and that it is eternally secure in the Father? Having lived the temporal life by faith and having yielded the fruits of the spirit as the righteousness of loving service for your fellows, you can confidently look forward to the next step in the eternal career with the same survival faith that has carried you through your first and earthly adventure in sonship with God.

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"At such times the Most High observer functions as the Most High regent, exercising unquestioned authority over all ministers and administrators resident on the planet" Do any of these beings have the ability to physically step into human affairs? as what would be needed in the case of a nuclear war, or exaustion of natural resources? or does "all ministers and administrators" include the living human ones?

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Hi Tripageous:

 

you wrote;

 

" Do any of these beings have the ability to physically step into human affairs?

 

reply;

 

I believe so in fact many Celestials were itchin to step in[and kick some ignorant human butt] during the Humiliation and Crucifiction I'll bet.

 

Even us humans get some attention;

 

The seraphim guard you; they do not seek directly to influence you; you must chart your own course, but these angels then act to make the best possible use of the course you have chosen.

 

They do not (ordinarily) arbitrarily intervene in the routine affairs of human life.

 

But when they receive instructions from their superiors to perform some unusual exploit, you may rest assured that these guardians will find some means of carrying out these mandates.

 

They do not, therefore, intrude into the picture of human drama except in emergencies and then usually on the direct orders of their superiors.

 

They are the beings who are going to follow you for many an age, and they are thus receiving an introduction to their future work and personality association.

 

 

PHIL

 

 

PS;

 

How they would interfere I don't know but I would hope it would be something

 

awe inspiring like in the movie Abyss.(:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"At such times the Most High observer functions as the Most High regent, exercising unquestioned authority over all ministers and administrators resident on the planet" Do any of these beings have the ability to physically step into human affairs? as what would be needed in the case of a nuclear war, or exaustion of natural resources? or does "all ministers and administrators" include the living human ones?

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This is pretty "awe inspiring":

 

While there is this dematerializing technique for preparing the Adams for transit from Jerusem to the evolutionary worlds, there is no equivalent method for taking them away from such worlds unless the entire planet is to be emptied, in which event emergency installation of the dematerialization technique is made for the entire salvable population. If some physical catastrophe should doom the planetary residence of an evolving race, the Melchizedeks and the Life Carriers would install the technique of dematerialization for all survivors, and by seraphic transport these beings would be carried away to the new world prepared for their continuing existence. The evolution of a human race, once initiated on a world of space, must proceed quite independently of the physical survival of that planet, but during the evolutionary ages it is not otherwise intended that a Planetary Adam or Eve shall leave their chosen world.

 

Sort of negates that whole concept of "destroying ourselves".

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What does it matter if the whole world crashes?

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[quotIe name=Bill Martin' date='Apr 5 2008, 02:03 PM' post='3363]

What does it matter if the whole world crashes?

 

Exactly! If it is the fathers will, let it happen. I think that if Urantia is to end, it is just part of the natural order of the universe AKA Evolution. All things Boil down to the fathers will. I personally am ready to start my Ascendant Career.

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While a world-wide "evacuation" is a wonderful event, indeed, I feel that the odds of that being necessary in our case (due to an impending asteroid collision, etc.) are, frankly, astronomical and we are still left with the awesome task of trying to fix what's wrong on our planet ourselves. It's definitely a job that will continue long after this generation has moved on to the mansion worlds.

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Hi All;

 

I am at a lack of understanding why we as Humans always look to

 

and excite ourselves about Armageddon[end of days].

 

[the UB tells us we will evolve into light and life]

 

We seem to prefer and get pumped up about destruction[i fight this in myself]

 

I was in a Restaurant bar about noon right after the First Iraq war

 

a customer was going through the channels with the remote on the TV

 

and after passing them all he looked to everyone in the Club and said;

 

THERE IS NOTHING TO WATCH SINCE THE WAR IS OVER.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While a world-wide "evacuation" is a wonderful event, indeed, I feel that the odds of that being necessary in our case (due to an impending asteroid collision, etc.) are, frankly, astronomical and we are still left with the awesome task of trying to fix what's wrong on our planet ourselves. It's definitely a job that will continue long after this generation has moved on to the mansion worlds.

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Hello all,

In the biblical books of daniel and revelation, and certain gospels, it explaines that urantia will eventually be destroyed by god and all humans will go through a "final judgement". i have searched through the urantia book somewhat and am unable to find any information regarding these end time prophecies. Does the uranta book mention the end times at all or at least explain the human mis conceptions of the prophets that recieved these revalations?

 

Hello Tripageous and other readers;

In regards to your comment/question; in my opinion, I would say that the Urantia Book has alluded to end time prophecies in a number of different ways such as:

P 2082 pg6 "The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can only lead to disaster. During the first half of the twentieth century Urantians killed more human beings than were killed during the whole of the Christian dispensation up to that time. And this is only the beginning of the dire harvest of materialism and secularism: still more terrible destruction is yet to come." (my underlining this)

And if you read about "The Reserve Corps of Destiny" starting on Page 1257 you'll find that there is a plan especially designed to ensure that all of the positive spiritual, mental and physical advancements will not be wiped out in the event of "worst case scenerio" short of the planet being destroyed...and as someone else has already noted..if that were to occur...page 582 spells out what steps would kick in at that time.

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There appears to be two types of people in this world. There are those who think the world is broken and needs desperately to be fixed, and there are those who think the world is a wonderfully beautiful place. Those who think the world is broken spend their lives trying to fix it or hoping someone will come along to magically fix it. Those who think the world is a beautiful place spend their lives trying to convince the fixer-uppers to leave them alone so they can be free to enjoy the world as it is.

 

The idea of end times is an immature outlook on the world based on linear, sequential thinking. In a world where everything seems to have a beginning, it is only logical to think that everything must also have an end. But faith and logic are strange bedfellows. TUB teaches us that with maturity we learn to think elliptically. When we learn to do that, the idea of an end is absurd.

 

There is a direct relationship between maturity and the unit of time consciousness in any given intellect. The time unit may be a day, a year, or a longer period, but inevitably it is the criterion by which the conscious self evaluates the circumstances of life, and by which the conceiving intellect measures and evaluates the facts of temporal existence. 1295:03

 

Experience, wisdom, and judgment are the concomitants of the lengthening of the time unit in mortal experience. As the human mind reckons backward into the past, it is evaluating past experience for the purpose of bringing it to bear on a present situation. As mind reaches out into the future, it is attempting to evaluate the future significance of possible action. And having thus reckoned with both experience and wisdom, the human will exercises judgment-decision in the present, and the plan of action thus born of the past and the future becomes existent. 1295:04

 

In the maturity of the developing self, the past and future are brought together to illuminate the true meaning of the present. As the self matures, it reaches further and further back into the past for experience, while its wisdom forecasts seek to penetrate deeper and deeper into the unknown future. And as the conceiving self extends this reach ever further into both past and future, so does judgment become less and less dependent on the momentary present. In this way does decision-action begin to escape from the fetters of the moving present, while it begins to take on the aspects of past-future significance. 1295:05

 

And, even if everything material should come to an end by some magical act, what should it matter to spirit-born believers?

 

p1096:4 100:2.7 Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: "To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?"

 

Those of us who love the world as it is find comfort in TUB's predictions:

 

p2076:6 195:6.1 Scientists have unintentionally precipitated mankind into a materialistic panic; they have started an unthinking run on the moral bank of the ages, but this bank of human experience has vast spiritual resources; it can stand the demands being made upon it. Only unthinking men become panicky about the spiritual assets of the human race. When the materialistic-secular panic is over, the religion of Jesus will not be found bankrupt. The spiritual bank of the kingdom of heaven will be paying out faith, hope, and moral security to all who draw upon it "in his name."

p2076:9 195:6.4 At the time of this writing the worst of the materialistic age is over; the day of a better understanding is already beginning to dawn. The higher minds of the scientific world are no longer wholly materialistic in their philosophy, but the rank and file of the people still lean in that direction as a result of former teachings. But this age of physical realism is only a passing episode in man's life on earth. Modern science has left true religion—the teachings of Jesus as translated in the lives of his believers—untouched. All science has done is to destroy the childlike illusions of the misinterpretations of life.

 

I can't wait for people to stop screaming the end is near. The end of what?

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There appears to be two types of people in this world. There are those who think the world is broken and needs desperately to be fixed, and there are those who think the world is a wonderfully beautiful place. Those who think the world is broken spend their lives trying to fix it or hoping someone will come along to magically fix it. Those who think the world is a beautiful place spend their lives trying to convince the fixer-uppers to leave them alone so they can be free to enjoy the world as it is.

 

The idea of end times is an immature outlook on the world based on linear, sequential thinking. In a world where everything seems to have a beginning, it is only logical to think that everything must also have an end. But faith and logic are strange bedfellows. TUB teaches us that with maturity we learn to think elliptically. When we learn to do that, the idea of an end is absurd.

 

And, even if everything material should come to an end by some magical act, what should it matter to spirit-born believers?

Those of us who love the world as it is find comfort in TUB's predictions:

I can't wait for people to stop screaming the end is near. The end of what?

There is also another type of person in this world: a person who believes that this world is a beatiful place to be...and also a world which is always changing...shifting from one epoch to another..from one age to another. The end of one phase is also the beginning of a new phase.,a better age

In Part III The History of Urantia the word end appears on the following pages: P 678 P682 P684 "ended" on p685 end two times on P 691 and on P692 "ends" And the "suddenly" appears 15 times as something New comes into being

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There is also another type of person in this world: a person who believes that this world is a beatiful place to be...and also a world which is always changing...shifting from one epoch to another..from one age to another. The end of one phase is also the beginning of a new phase.,a better age

In Part III The History of Urantia the word end appears on the following pages: P 678 P682 P684 "ended" on p685 end two times on P 691 and on P692 "ends" And the "suddenly" appears 15 times as something New comes into being

 

Menno,

 

Let me apologize for thinking that you might be one of those who believes in "end times". You appear to mean "end of an age". I agree that ages end and begin, but what age is ending? The revelators have not indicated what stage of light and life we are currently in and also give almost no hints as to when we will move from one stage to another. Since, as you say, phases evolve, we may not know when one ends and another begins unless it is accompanied by a visitation of some sort.

 

Since you say that the world is a beautiful place to "be", I'm guessing you mean it will be a beautiful place to be in the future, but not now. Or, do you mean it is a beautiful place to "be" in, now in the present? Yes, the world is always changing but there is no "end" to change.

 

I looked on page 678 and found two references to the word "end" in regards to geology and vegetation. Are you suggesting that in the "end times" the world will change physically, that land masses and landscape will change?

 

59.4.2 As the land emerges from the last Silurian inundation, an important period in world development and life evolution comes to an end. It is the dawn of a new age on earth. The naked and unattractive landscape of former times is becoming clothed with luxuriant verdure, and the first magnificent forests will soon appear.

 

59.4.6 260,000,000 years ago, toward the end of this land-depression epoch, North America was partially overspread by seas having simultaneous connection with the Pacific, Atlantic, Arctic, and Gulf waters. The deposits of these later stages of the first Devonian flood average about one thousand feet in thickness. The coral reefs characterizing these times indicate that the inland seas were clear and shallow. Such coral deposits are exposed in the banks of the Ohio River near Louisville, Kentucky, and are about one hundred feet thick, embracing more than two hundred varieties. These coral formations extend through Canada and northern Europe to the arctic regions.

 

Page 682 addresses climatic change and the development of the transition period leading to the appearance of land animals. Are you suggesting that the "end times" have something to do with climate change?

 

Here's the quote on page 684, another geological era:

 

59:6.11 The ending of this period of biologic tribulation, known to your students as the Permian, also marks the end of the long Paleozoic era, which covers one quarter of the planetary history, two hundred and fifty million years.

 

And page 685:

The era of exclusive marine life has ended. Land elevation, cooling crust and cooling oceans, sea restriction and consequent deepening, together with a great increase of land in northern latitudes, all conspired greatly to change the world's climate in all regions far removed from the equatorial zone.

 

Pages 691 and 692 discusses the end of the chalk period and continental drift. That sounds like a good thing. All of these quotes about "the end" of physical eras as well as the sudden appearance of mutations has to do with material things, none of which should concern you at all if you are secure in your faith. There is no lasting spiritual significance to physical phenomenon; it is the spirit that really matters.

 

Menno, here is a quote with the word "end" in it that deserves some thought:

 

195.6.5 Science is a quantitative experience, religion a qualitative experience, as regards man’s life on earth. Science deals with phenomena; religion, with origins, values, and goals. To assign causes as an explanation of physical phenomena is to confess ignorance of ultimates and in the end only leads the scientist straight back to the first great cause — the Universal Father of Paradise.
Edited by Bonita

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Hey!!

 

The planet and the cosmic consciousness of its more awake (informed) citizens is in transition from the Fourth Epoch into the Fifth. Many wear the symbol of a cross with three concentric circles at the apex to remind them of this truth. Yet there are many sincere religionists who are living out their lives at the level of the Third Epoch, as introduced by Machiventia Melchizedek, who sojurned with the patriarch Abraham three thousand short years ago.

 

The reality is that :).1294 - §13 Each successive universe age is the antechamber of the following era of cosmic growth, and each universe epoch provides immediate destiny for all preceding stages.

 

We must lead through example, teach what we have learned to our fellows or we truly haven't learned anything.

 

If the world does get hit with another asteroid, such as the Chuxlub of 65 million years ago, life would end. But the experiment that was begun here is much too valuable to toss out like that.We have been given revelation up to the level of destinies and absolutes at the nativity level. There is no telling what the "payoff" will be for such an audacious attempt.

 

The Most Highs rule in the kingdoms of men and we are lovingly nurtured. There is a very real possibility that the power of love will begin to eclipse the love of power. (No, not now, but soon.) By our love, by our real and loving actions, we are helping to actualize the finite God-God the Supreme.

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Bonita; Please allow me to clarify and expand what I was trying to convey previously. I believe that we are very near to the end of an age. just which age is or epoch is anyones guess.

Paper 52 page589 Planetary Mortal Epochs lists the normal world epochs 1 through 7. Note that page 597 pg 3 line 5 " urantia is not proceeding in the normal order" It appears that # 2 and # 3 didn't occur as planned. Then # 4 and # 5 seem to have been combined in Michaels's Bestowal.

# 6 "Urantia's Post Bestowal Age hasn't really materialized as yet..and yet it , if you read Page 599 pg 8 refering to John's vision of " seeing a new heaven and a new earth...." Then on Page 600 pg 4 again the reference to a new heaven and a new earth.

I believe that there is a very real possibility that we are very near to the beginning of # 7 "Post-Teacher Son Man

 

We are very near the end of the "Physical-minded age" the era of being absorbed with surface stuff..material stuff, etc. The entire solar system is starting to transform...from something that it has been..to something that it will be. Global Warming is just one effect of this emerging transformation. The idea that Global Warming is manmade..caused by our usage of carbon is so much nonsense. Human scientists and leaders are totally overlooking the fact that Mars is heating up, Jupitor is heating up. Why ? Because the Sun is heating up and has been for the past 20 years. Question is: Why is the Sun heating Up ? Most likely because whatever it is connected to is changing also.

 

Back to endings and "Sudden" arrivals of New Life, etc.. Remember that Urantia is an Experimental World. And that many, many unusual things have occurred here. And we are not on the "Regular Normal Timetable" that the UB spells out. Ages that normally take many thousands of years to occur have been "Fast-forwarded" here

Just read paper 52 and you'll see what I mean.

I am very positive about being here on Urantia at this time...it is an exciting time to be here. There is so much more that I could share ...but it would be byond the Forum Rules so I will endeaver to stay between the "lines"

 

If it seems as if I am way out of line...then I will shut up and stay off the keyboard.

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Hi Menno,

 

I agree that Urantia is an exciting place to be and I am very happy to be here too.

 

I think we need to back up a bit though. It seems to me that you are combining physical, geological world changes with non-physical, moral and religious world changes. Remember that each mortal epoch receives an enlarged presentation of spiritual truth and religious ethics. The epochs are not about the physical planet, only about man on the planet. TUB is pretty clear that the two are not necessarily connected. The book admits that a world "crisis" might precipitate a new phase of the kingdom (170.4.5 ), but there is nothing to indicate what this "crisis"is or that it is impending or that it concerns the physical planet or solar system at all. Also, when TUB states that more destruction will occur, you have to remember that it was written 10 years before WWII. Does that mean that WWII is the end of terrible destruction? I don't know, but it doesn't really matter because life will go on.

 

The seven planetary mortal epochs on Urantia are indeed mixed up and very much overlapping. But remember, these are mortal epochs. Nothing is said in these epochs about the sun, the planets or the weather, nothing at all. Here is a review of the 7 epochs:

 

1. Pre-Planetary Prince Man.

2. Post-Planetary Prince Man.

3. Post-Adamic Man.

4. Post-Magisterial Son Man.

5. Postbestowal Son Man.

6. Post-Teacher Son Man.

7. The Era of Light and Life.

 

Now, let's examine our mortal progression for each epoch:

 

1. Pre-Planetary Prince Man: We have yet to rid ourselves of the fear-base of religion.

 

2. Post-Planetary Prince Man: TUB tells us, "In some respects Urantians do not seem to have wholly emerged from this stage of planetary evolution." (52:2.4) Also, this is the epoch when family life and sexual equality emerges along with the dual concept of national life and family life. Our governments still continue to usurp the role of the family and continue to strive for the "nanny state". Likewise, families have suffered because women, in general, have had to trade their families in exchange for their equality. During this epoch the races are purified; the mental defectives and social degenerates are eliminated. We have not even begun to do this; we continue to be swayed by false sentiment.

 

3. Post-Adamic Man: Again TUB tells us that "This age usually witnesses the completion of the elimination of the unfit and the still further purification of the racial strains; on normal worlds the defective bestial tendencies are very nearly eliminated from the reproducing stocks of the realm." (52:3.4) It also states: "Much of the material progress of a world occurs during this time of the inauguration of the development of the physical sciences, just such an epoch as Urantia is now experiencing. Your world is a full dispensation and more behind the average planetary schedule." (52:3.6) TUB is essentially telling us that we are still in EPOCH NUMBER THREE, despite the appearance of a bestowal Son. We have not emerged from nationalism nor have we made much progress in lessening racial animosity despite recent events, which have in some regards served merely to reopen old wounds, forcing them to now heal by third intention, which takes much more time.

 

4. Post-Magisterial Son Man: This age opens without race problems and without war. (52:4.1) Need I say anymore? We are several millennia from this point. My guess is that when we do arrive at this epoch, our Creator Son will return with the Magisterial Son to inaugurate it. But it is just a guess and if everyone on the planet has to be able to see him with their spiritual eyes, then it will definitely be many millennia. Don't forget that most NORMAL worlds require several Magisterial Sons before a bestowal Son comes. (52:4.9) We're likely to need fewer having had our Creator Son here along with his Spirit of Truth and fusion-Adjusters; but remember, a NORMAL world takes 25-50,000 years to complete this epoch.

 

5. Post-Bestowal Son Man: This epoch occurs when the world is ripe for spiritualization. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no evidence of ripeness. Jesus said "concerning the times of the coming again of the Son of Man, no one in heaven or on earth may presume to speak. But you should be wise regarding the ripening of an age; you should be alert to discern the signs of the times. You know when the fig tree shows its tender branches and puts forth its leaves that summer is near. Likewise, when the world has passed through the long winter of material-mindedness and you discern the coming of the spiritual springtime of a new dispensation, should you know that the summertime of a new visitation draws near. "(176.2.6) Although fruits ripen in summer, the spiritual springtime is no where near. Where do you see the tender branches and leaves that auger the ripening of an age? The springtime of a new dispensation would be EPOCH NUMBER FOUR.

 

This epoch begins with a race, spiritually trained and receptive to advanced spiritual truth. Our world is not uniformly receptive to any kind of truth as of yet. The Spirit of Truth is still confused with the Holy Spirit within the church that professes to know all there is to know about him; and because of that, most peoples of the world haven't even heard of him yet. Also, this age is supposed to last from 10,000-100,000 years. We've only gone 2,000 years and are already impatient. Heck, we're supposed to be living for 300 years by the end of this epoch; at the rate we're going, that will definitely take another 10,000 years, unless we start to progress exponentially. Not to even begin to mention the idea of self-government. Please! we're going backwards concerning that phenomenon, regressing towards totalitarianism. Maybe we'll get to one language; but one religion? not in a long shot. Sunni and Shia are still slaughtering each other, and they are essentially the same religion!

 

6. Post-Teacher Son Man: Menno, you say that we are currently in this epoch. Where is your evidence? Where do you see the kingdom of heaven appearing on earth? This is meant to be the era of the "New Jerusalem" of John's vision. The new heaven and new earth is a metaphor for the splendid changes occurring in mankind and their natural effects upon the earth. The "New Jerusalem" means that all will worship the One God, newly revealed by these Teacher Sons. I'm sorry to say that we are still stuck in the Old Jerusalem where there are three different religions and three different "One Gods".

Edited by Bonita

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Hi Menno,

 

I agree that Urantia is an exciting place to be and I am very happy to be here too.

 

Hi Bonita,

I really enjoy having this discussion with you. You are very thorough and knowledgeable in the UB material and I respect your replies/comments.

The points touched on; are so numerous that I would like to respond in installments:

 

I think we need to back up a bit though. It seems to me that you are combining physical, geological world changes with non-physical, moral and religious world changes. Remember that each mortal epoch receives an enlarged presentation of spiritual truth and religious ethics. The epochs are not about the physical planet, only about man on the planet. TUB is pretty clear that the two are not necessarily connected. The book admits that a world "crisis" might precipitate a new phase of the kingdom (170.4.5 )

I believe that this is exactly what were are on the brink of.

 

, but there is nothing to indicate what this "crisis"is or that it is impending or that it concerns the physical planet or solar system at all.

 

We will not have to wait long to see the evidence of just what this "crisis is"

 

Also, when TUB states that more destruction will occur, you have to remember that it was written 10 years before WWII. Does that mean that WWII is the end of terrible destruction?

 

Actually the UB material was conveyed as follows: Part I, Part II, and Part III were conveyed from 1911 to 1935 via hand written pages in handwriting matching that of a sleeping subject. Part IV appeared, completely typewritten, beside a typewriter in Urantia Foundation HQ in Chicago on Feb 11, 1953...very intersting date as it was the anniversary of the arrival of Jesus' Thought Adjuster (see P 1357 para 5)

Anyways the original Urantia Forum Members were told by the Celestial Beings to hold off on the publication of the material. In 1954 The Celestial Revelators said to go ahead (printing plates had been made in 1940)

the point being that the Celestial Beings already knew that the UB wouldn't be published until after WW II. Another interesting part about Part IV the "Jesus Papers" see page 866 wherein an Archangel of Nebadon gives strong indications that the Midwayers of Urantia delivered the typed material (see above

)

I don't know, but it doesn't really matter because life will go on.

 

You are right. Life will go on, but not as it has been. The Changes, just before mankind, will be the biggest changes since civilization began. And the Biggest Change will be on the Spiritual Level. excuse me by jumping ahead to a comment in Epoch No. 6 page 598 para 2 line 4 "...The only technique for accelerating the natural trend of social evolution is that of applying spiritual pressure from above, thus augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacityof every mortal to understand and love every other mortal..."

What I was trying to say in my previous comments, was that I believe that ; in the case of Urantia..being such an unusual world...that these Epochs have been and still are being compressed. Michael's bestowal in Epoch No. 5 without Epoch No. 4 occurring and without Epochs 1 - 3 being completed; is prime evidence for my belief. I also said that Epoch 6 hadn't really materialized and yet it felt like we were on the brink of no. 7

Time will tell what is really going to occurr and just how quickly it will happen.

 

The seven planetary mortal epochs on Urantia are indeed mixed up and very much overlapping. But remember, these are mortal epochs. Nothing is said in these epochs about the sun, the planets or the weather, nothing at all. Here is a review of the 7 epochs:

 

1. Pre-Planetary Prince Man.

2. Post-Planetary Prince Man.

3. Post-Adamic Man.

4. Post-Magisterial Son Man.

5. Postbestowal Son Man.

6. Post-Teacher Son Man.

7. The Era of Light and Life.

 

Now, let's examine our mortal progression for each epoch:

 

1. Pre-Planetary Prince Man: We have yet to rid ourselves of the fear-base of religion.

 

2. Post-Planetary Prince Man: TUB tells us, "In some respects Urantians do not seem to have wholly emerged from this stage of planetary evolution." (52:2.4) Also, this is the epoch when family life and sexual equality emerges along with the dual concept of national life and family life. Our governments still continue to usurp the role of the family and continue to strive for the "nanny state". Likewise, families have suffered because women, in general, have had to trade their families in exchange for their equality. During this epoch the races are purified; the mental defectives and social degenerates are eliminated. We have not even begun to do this; we continue to be swayed by false sentiment.

 

3. Post-Adamic Man: Again TUB tells us that "This age usually witnesses the completion of the elimination of the unfit and the still further purification of the racial strains; on normal worlds the defective bestial tendencies are very nearly eliminated from the reproducing stocks of the realm." (52:3.4) It also states: "Much of the material progress of a world occurs during this time of the inauguration of the development of the physical sciences, just such an epoch as Urantia is now experiencing. Your world is a full dispensation and more behind the average planetary schedule." (52:3.6) TUB is essentially telling us that we are still in EPOCH NUMBER THREE, despite the appearance of a bestowal Son. We have not emerged from nationalism nor have we made much progress in lessening racial animosity despite recent events, which have in some regards served merely to reopen old wounds, forcing them to now heal by third intention, which takes much more time.

 

4. Post-Magisterial Son Man: This age opens without race problems and without war. (52:4.1) Need I say anymore? We are several millennia from this point. My guess is that when we do arrive at this epoch, our Creator Son will return with the Magisterial Son to inaugurate it. But it is just a guess and if everyone on the planet has to be able to see him with their spiritual eyes, then it will definitely be many millennia. Don't forget that most NORMAL worlds require several Magisterial Sons before a bestowal Son comes. (52:4.9) We're likely to need fewer having had our Creator Son here along with his Spirit of Truth and fusion-Adjusters; but remember, a NORMAL world takes 25-50,000 years to complete this epoch.

 

5. Post-Bestowal Son Man: This epoch occurs when the world is ripe for spiritualization. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no evidence of ripeness. Jesus said "concerning the times of the coming again of the Son of Man, no one in heaven or on earth may presume to speak. But you should be wise regarding the ripening of an age; you should be alert to discern the signs of the times. You know when the fig tree shows its tender branches and puts forth its leaves that summer is near. Likewise, when the world has passed through the long winter of material-mindedness and you discern the coming of the spiritual springtime of a new dispensation, should you know that the summertime of a new visitation draws near. "(176.2.6) Although fruits ripen in summer, the spiritual springtime is no where near. Where do you see the tender branches and leaves that auger the ripening of an age? The springtime of a new dispensation would be EPOCH NUMBER FOUR.

 

This epoch begins with a race, spiritually trained and receptive to advanced spiritual truth. Our world is not uniformly receptive to any kind of truth as of yet. The Spirit of Truth is still confused with the Holy Spirit within the church that professes to know all there is to know about him; and because of that, most peoples of the world haven't even heard of him yet. Also, this age is supposed to last from 10,000-100,000 years. We've only gone 2,000 years and are already impatient. Heck, we're supposed to be living for 300 years by the end of this epoch; at the rate we're going, that will definitely take another 10,000 years, unless we start to progress exponentially. Not to even begin to mention the idea of self-government. Please! we're going backwards concerning that phenomenon, regressing towards totalitarianism. Maybe we'll get to one language; but one religion? not in a long shot. Sunni and Shia are still slaughtering each other, and they are essentially the same religion!

 

6. Post-Teacher Son Man: Menno, you say that we are currently in this epoch. Where is your evidence? Where do you see the kingdom of heaven appearing on earth? This is meant to be the era of the "New Jerusalem" of John's vision. The new heaven and new earth is a metaphor for the splendid changes occurring in mankind and their natural effects upon the earth. The "New Jerusalem" means that all will worship the One God, newly revealed by these Teacher Sons. I'm sorry to say that we are still stuck in the Old Jerusalem where there are three different religions and three different "One Gods".

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Hi Menno,

 

I really admire your enthusiastic optimism. So you think the crisis is a positive one? One which will result in pressure from above that will enhance our soul capacity to love one another on a higher level? And I also assume that you believe that this will occur suddenly?

 

Could be, I don't know. But, I think we can study those few paragraphs a little closer and ask some questions about them. Here's the quote from the Post-Bestowal Age in context:

 

Even on normal evolutionary worlds the realization of the world-wide brotherhood of man is not an easy accomplishment. On a confused and disordered planet like Urantia such an achievement requires a much longer time and necessitates far greater effort. Unaided social evolution can hardly achieve such happy results on a spiritually isolated sphere. Religious revelation is essential to the realization of brotherhood on Urantia. While Jesus has shown the way to the immediate attainment of spiritual brotherhood, the realization of social brotherhood on your world depends much on the achievement of the following personal transformations and planetary adjustments:

 

1. Social fraternity. Multiplication of international and interracial social contacts and fraternal associations through travel, commerce, and competitive play. Development of a common language and the multiplication of multilinguists. The racial and national interchange of students, teachers, industrialists, and religious philosophers.

2. Intellectual cross-fertilization. Brotherhood is impossible on a world whose inhabitants are so primitive that they fail to recognize the folly of unmitigated selfishness. There must occur an exchange of national and racial literature. Each race must become familiar with the thought of all races; each nation must know the feelings of all nations. Ignorance breeds suspicion, and suspicion is incompatible with the essential attitude of sympathy and love.

3. Ethical awakening. Only ethical consciousness can unmask the immorality of human intolerance and the sinfulness of fratricidal strife. Only a moral conscience can condemn the evils of national envy and racial jealousy. Only moral beings will ever seek for that spiritual insight which is essential to living the golden rule.

4. Political wisdom. Emotional maturity is essential to self-control. Only emotional maturity will insure the substitution of international techniques of civilized adjudication for the barbarous arbitrament of war. Wise statesmen will sometime work for the welfare of humanity even while they strive to promote the interest of their national or racial groups. Selfish political sagacity is ultimately suicidal—destructive of all those enduring qualities which insure planetary group survival.

5. Spiritual insight. The brotherhood of man is, after all, predicated on the recognition of the fatherhood of God. The quickest way to realize the brotherhood of man on Urantia is to effect the spiritual transformation of present-day humanity. The only technique for accelerating the natural trend of social evolution is that of applying spiritual pressure from above, thus augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacity of every mortal to understand and love every other mortal. Mutual understanding and fraternal love are transcendent civilizers and mighty factors in the world-wide realization of the brotherhood of man. 52:6.2-7

 

There are several things that pop out at me while reading this quote. First, it says that on Urantia a world-wide brotherhood "requires a much longer time and necessitates far greater effort." The revelators are suggesting that the effort is not only ours, but theirs as well. Meaning, we have to work hard at it and they apply the pressure from above, in the form of revelation, over a long period of time. Then they list the areas where effort must be applied. Looking at each one:

 

1. Social fraternity: I believe that we have found the door to social fraternity as described here and many are actually walking through it.

2. Intellectual cross-fertilization: Here we are still fumbling with the keys to this door, getting it open occasionally but unable to keep it open long enough to let anyone pass through. There is still way too much racial and national ignorance.

3. Ethical awakening: Living the Golden Rule . . . hmmm . . . there are 7 levels to living the Golden Rule (see pages 1650-1651). We're still on levels 1-3. The keys to this door are still being made, the awakening has not occurred yet.

4. Political wisdom: We haven't even found this door yet, let alone made keys for it. But, at least I think we're looking for it.

5. Spiritual insight: This door is inside of us. So far almost no one is even aware that they should be looking for this door; few even know that it exists.

 

Menno, the sudden appearance of light and life may occur, but it is more likely to occur within you than in the world at large. There are many people functioning at epoch number seven levels who are alive today. They are the enlightened ones whose inner lives are filled with light and life. They are the ones living at a personal epoch level seven. They are the ones who allow light to spill over into their life in the world. They are the ones who already see the world as light and life and assume that everyone else will get there too. They are the ones who have put out the effort, who have accepted the pressure from above, who have allowed their souls to be augmented with light and who have brought that light to life in the form of love. The more of these people we have the faster the world will move through the epochs. The pressure from above occurs within. The pressure is on our natures to recognize the love coming from our Creator, to heed the shepherd's call. It is spirit-gravity drawing us to him so we all may be one. In this way we can then practice the Golden Rule on level seven; we will love the way God loves us; our fraternal love will become a transcendent civilizer and the world-wide brotherhood will socially evolve more rapidly.

 

The less of love in any creature's nature, the greater the love need, and the more does divine love seek to satisfy such need. Love is never self-seeking, and it cannot be self-bestowed. Divine love cannot be self-contained; it must be unselfishly bestowed. p1739:06

 

This new teacher is the Spirit of Truth who will live with each one of you, in your hearts, and so will all the children of light be made one and be drawn toward one another. And in this very manner will my Father and I be able to live in the souls of each one of you and also in the hearts of all other men who love us and make that love real in their experiences by loving one another, even as I am now loving you. p1949:00

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"... but it is more likely to occur within you than in the world at large. There are many people functioning at epoch number seven levels who are alive today. They are the enlightened ones whose inner lives are filled with light and life. They are the ones living at a personal epoch level seven. They are the ones who allow light to spill over into their life in the world. They are the ones who already see the world as light and life and assume that everyone else will get there too. They are the ones who have put out the effort, who have accepted the pressure from above, who have allowed their souls to be augmented with light and who have brought that light to life in the form of love. ... "

Bonita, for me your little paragraph above touches why this world is so special. Like lilies from

unimpressive mud, agondonters -- first contact with light and life -- are coming into bloom.

Michael's priceless harvest? The sort of thing that "takes their breath away" in Paradise?

Nice!

Nigel

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