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Rick Warren

Global Warming and the Urantia Papers

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Forum Friends,

 

 

A reader on another network pointed this out:

 

P702 “100,000 years ago, during the retreat of the last glacier, the vast polar ice sheets began to form, and the center of ice accumulation moved considerably northward. And as long as the polar regions continue to be covered with ice, it is hardly possible for another glacial age to occur, regardless of future land elevations or modification of ocean currents.”

 

Do you think this info bears on the global warming debate?

 

All comments welcome, Rick

Edited by Rick Warren

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Rick,

 

I read a book co-authored by Art Bell, the former late-nite radio guy that led me to ponder things I had read in the Book. A premise in that book was that as fresh water melt diluted the salinity of the oceans, it would disrupt the deep, cold water return stream from polar to equatorial regions. This is much slower and higher salinity than the surface warm water gulfstream/Japan current type flow.

 

The point is that when the water stops flowing to equalize tempurature, boundary layer storms begin in the atmosphere with a permanent snowstorm that never ends. This is how glaciers form.

 

On 655, the Book talks about the Sun's variability. If it was truly variable, life as we know it would be impossible. The sunspot cycle reveals the lack of our sun's stability. While not explicitly stating so, it remains a question as to whether or not our sun's output of energy changes significantly over time. I believe it does. Just as i am confident that greenhouse gases are a significant component of the warming equation.

 

Many, many people depend on glacial melt for water, especially in South America. It looks like the Earth and mankind are in for some tough times soon. Especialy the more industriaized parts of the earth which are so dependent on the transportation infrastructure. Centralization of food manufacture has changed the way man lives in the last four or five decades.

 

 

what do you think, Rick?

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Thanks for the reply Bill,

 

Not sure where exactly you come down on this issue tho...The Revelators APPEAR to be saying global warming will lead to another iceage, no? Without referring to all that the media and science are saying, what do you make of this quote?

 

 

“100,000 years ago, during the retreat of the last glacier, the vast polar ice sheets began to form, and the center of ice accumulation moved considerably northward. And as long as the polar regions continue to be covered with ice, it is hardly possible for another glacial age to occur, regardless of future land elevations or modification of ocean currents.” P702

 

Havagudun, Rick

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Hi all

...as long as the polar regions continue to be covered with ice....

 

well global warming would take how long to melt that?

 

then...?

 

Reed

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Good questions Reed,

 

Science seems to think they will melt this century. The UB seems to be saying another ice age will ensue when they have melted, not the opposite! So much for presumed logic.

 

At least global warming is slow moving phemon, the cities by the sea may be inundated, but they have time to hike up their pantlegs.

 

Havadryone, Rick

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Hi Rick and all...

I don't meen to be off base here, but what does TUB say as to nucular energy?

A newbe that I am...I think I read somewhere about it.

In what depth is it covered?

 

I t seems that this warming/ocean rising[how much],might mean a complete restructuring of

the population's planitery life.Social migration vs. country's boundrys.

The senerios could be very interesting.

 

Reed

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Morning Reed,

 

Not off base at all, our tremendous energy needs tie into 'global warming', according to current scientific theory.

 

The authors talk some about the inner structure of the atom, but I don't recall any material on nuclear energy per se. It's development came after the Urantia revelation. Interestingly, they do talk about 'undiscovered' energy sources.

 

 

P.471 - §8 Matter in all universes, excepting in the central universe, is identical. Matter in its physical properties depends on the revolutionary rates of its component members, the number and size of the revolving members, their distance from the nuclear body or the space content of matter, as well as on the presence of certain forces as yet undiscovered on Urantia.

 

P.472 - §12 Light, heat, electricity, magnetism, chemism, energy, and matter are--in origin, nature, and destiny--one and the same thing, together with other material realities as yet undiscovered on Urantia.

 

P.479 - §4 The mesotron explains certain cohesive properties of the atomic nucleus, but it does not account for the cohesion of proton to proton nor for the adhesion of neutron to neutron. The paradoxical and powerful force of atomic cohesive integrity is a form of energy as yet undiscovered on Urantia.

 

These appear to be hints to us about the manner and use of certain energies.

 

Yes, rising oceans will create some situations, not all happy (some say oceans will rise 10 meters if both icecaps melt). Coastal cities, of which there are thousands, will have to decide whether to move inland a bit or build dams like Holland did. Some islands will simply disappear. Fortunately this disaster is slow moving.

 

But the awesome thing is the authors apparent prediction that global warming will lead to global freezing, no?

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Sorry Rick about my late reply,

 

Obviously the Arctic polar region is losing ice at a rather astounding rate in current time, not scoped out to the geological time frame. Within our lifetimes, cargo will be shipped from Japan to Europe bypassing the Panama canal through the Northwest Passage (at least in the Summer months).

 

For whatever reason, the Antarctic seems to be faring better.

 

My personal view is that once a "tipping point" is reached, changes will occur suddenly. and with vigor. Witness the processes that formed the strata that give us the petroleum we use now. Do you think those carboniferous flora and the fauna in them were covered over slowly. Surely millions of years were needed to transform their essence into crude. But do you think maybe giant waves (water and land) washed to and fro encapsulating them?

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Sorry Rick about my late reply, Obviously the Arctic polar region is losing ice at a rather astounding rate in current time, not scoped out to the geological time frame. Within our lifetimes, cargo will be shipped from Japan to Europe bypassing the Panama canal through the Northwest Passage (at least in the Summer months). For whatever reason, the Antarctic seems to be faring better. My personal view is that once a "tipping point" is reached, changes will occur suddenly. and with vigor. Witness the processes that formed the strata that give us the petroleum we use now. Do you think those carboniferous flora and the fauna in them were covered over slowly. Surely millions of years were needed to transform their essence into crude. But do you think maybe giant waves (water and land) washed to and fro encapsulating them?

 

Hello all...

My first post here. I've studied climate change science quite a bit so maybe I can shed some light... at least from the science angle. UB is sketchy on much of this.

 

First... the Arctic is melting faster than the Antarctic because the bulk of the southern ice sheet (the East Antarctic) is "grounded"... ice sitting on rock that is above sea level. It can only absorb heat by direct radiation and from the atmosphere. The northern ice is floating, so it can absorb heat from both above and below. The West Antarctic ice sheet is currently grounded, but sitting on rock that is below sea level. It is quite vulnerable to being lifted and broken up by rising sea levels. Fortunately it is relatively small compared to the East sheet.... but still as large as Greenland.

 

Second... the large scale glacial cycles are well known to be caused by permutations in the earth's orbital parameters. A Serbian named Milutin Milankovic first did the difficult calculations and they correlate well with the geologic record. The obliquity of the earth's axis, the precession of the equinox, and the ellipticity of the orbit all vary over time, such that glacial epochs occur with a period of something like 110,000 years. The glaciated periods last much longer than the interglacials. We are currently in a relatively brief interglacial warm period and another glacial should be starting in a few thousand years. This is entirely independant of any conceivable atmospheric disturbance or global warming we might be able to effect on short time scales (tens or hundreds of years).

 

Third... the processes that formed the hydrocarbon reserves that we are exploiting today are NOT continuing! Very little organic material is being stored now for future use. The carboniferous was unique in geologic history and characterized by anoxic basins where this material could accumulate slowly in a reducing environment without being oxidized (as it would be today). The processes of burial are quite well understood... giant waves were not part of that scenario. Yes there have been catastrophic events on the earth, but we know what the deposits from those events look like and they are NOT commonly seen in association with hydrocarbon deposits.

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Thank You Doubting Thomas for you elucidation,

 

Here is what Rick posted back in Nov. 2007 about glaciation from the Urantia Book. It is historical AND predictive.\

 

P.702 - §1 100,000 years ago, during the retreat of the last glacier, the vast polar ice sheets began to form, and the center of ice accumulation moved considerably northward. And as long as the polar regions continue to be covered with ice, it is hardly possible for another glacial age to occur, regardless of future land elevations or modification of ocean currents.

P.702 - §2 This last glacier was one hundred thousand years advancing, and it required a like span of time to complete its northern retreat. The temperate regions have been free from the ice for a little over fifty thousand years.

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Thank You Doubting Thomas for you elucidation,

Here is what Rick posted back in Nov. 2007 about glaciation from the Urantia Book. It is historical AND predictive.\

P.702 - §1 100,000 years ago, during the retreat of the last glacier, the vast polar ice sheets began to form, and the center of ice accumulation moved considerably northward. And as long as the polar regions continue to be covered with ice, it is hardly possible for another glacial age to occur, regardless of future land elevations or modification of ocean currents.

P.702 - §2 This last glacier was one hundred thousand years advancing, and it required a like span of time to complete its northern retreat. The temperate regions have been free from the ice for a little over fifty thousand years.

 

...but rather weakly written and not quite accurate. The Urantia Book also mentions that if we REALLY want to know the history of the planet, we should learn to read the "vast stone book". (page 671 last paragraph). You cannot base your understanding of science on The Urantia Book any more than you can base it on The Bible. People have done that for centuries and have thereby entered into great errors... the consequences of which are still with us. Science is about information... where and how you get it. Observation of the real world and hypotheses seeking to explain observation must ALWAYS trump revelation.

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Hello DT

You cannot base your understanding of science on The Urantia Book any more than you can base it on The Bible. People have done that for centuries and have thereby entered into great errors... the consequences of which are still with us.

A bit unfair the comparison between the scientific facts in the Bible and the scientific facts in the UB, is it not?The Bible is not cosmic the Urantia Papers is. The UB teaches you not only planetary facts and the like but above else cosmic facts, cosmic facts, and that is beyond the observational capacity of any human in these planet, only a finaliter could really understand those cosmic facts, of a cosmic science.... also consider that the accuracy of the observer being imperfect will also be just an aproximation, so we still need to keep adjusting, don't we?

 

We will have to wait centuries, 10 centuries?, to jugde fairly how the human mind made use of the facts that the UB has, so time will tell again. The scientist as well the religionist must learn first to differenciate between fact and truth, then see them from the cosmic viewpoint (page 215) then to achieve an unified and better understanding of finite reality.

 

Bye

U-rantian

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..... A bit unfair the comparison between the scientific facts in the Bible and the scientific facts in the UB, is it not?The Bible is not cosmic the Urantia Papers is....

Ten years ago I would have agreed. I would have said that earthly science would eventually agree with and support UB science. Since that time science has gone particularly far in the matter of DNA analysis, and the results not only refute the UB story of the Sangik races, but with every new discovery they trend further and further from the UB story. At the present time conclusive evidence can be shown that the story of the Sangik races is a complete fabrication. Now admittedly, the UB itself says that the science of the book is not revelatory in nature... and one can understand the reasons for the limitations of revelatory mandates. But why... why include patently false information? Why would the revelators purposely lead us towards a dead-end in terms of understanding organic evolution? What possible revelatory mandate could be satisfied by that?

 

So this is why I do not think it unfair to equate the Bible with the Urantia Book when it comes to the matter of understanding science. The UB tells us that humans have a "truth response" to tell us when something is real. But judging from the many bizarre cults and religions with perverted teachings that proliferate on our planet, this truth response must be rather undeveloped or unreliable. Many people believe wholeheartedly in the facts presented in the Bible... so wholeheartedly that they will deny the observations of their own eyes and intellects when faced by refutation of the book. Are we to be just another such group among the many? Therefore I am saying as plainly as I can, that we must always look to science first rather than to the Urantia Book when it comes to understanding the nature of physical reality. The only way-of-knowing that is truly valid is through the METHOD of scientific inquiry.

 

In service of Truth: Doubting Thomas

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Since that time science has gone particularly far in the matter of DNA analysis, and the results not only refute the UB story of the Sangik races, but with every new discovery they trend further and further from the UB story. At the present time conclusive evidence can be shown that the story of the Sangik races is a complete fabrication.

 

DT can you elaborate on this...what do you have to refute TUB...

thanks

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DT can you elaborate on this...what do you have to refute TUB... thanks

There is a lot of information around, here's one site: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/2/13

 

The basics of the accumulating evidence is that:

1. All humans were originally black. Light skin is an adaptation to low light levels in high latitudes.

2. There is no such thing as "race", there are simply populations sharing more or less common ancenstry with superficial anatomical variances. The concept of "race" is a culturally derived one, not supported by evidence.

3. All modern humans have ancestry in a single African population no more than 150,000 years ago.

 

If the Sangik story were true, there would be certain unmistakeable tracers in the mitochondrial DNA... but there are not. It is not a matter of "race blending". There is simply no DNA support for such an origin.

 

You see, as a geologist and an educator I have had to confront Bible believers many times, including Bible believers who happened to have administrative authority over me in my profesional position. In one case I was told that I should never mention the word "evolution" to students, and must in no case give the age of rocks in years unless the number is less than six thousand. I have been asked to explain the fossil record in terms of Noah's flood. All such is of course impossible... and I have often had the experience of confronting such believers with irrefutable evidence contradicting their beliefs... but they always seem able to refuse to see. Eventually, having worked to remove this beam from my brother's eye, I looked to see the mote in my own. I found that I too had been able to look the other way conveniently and hold onto my belief in the veracity of the Urantia Book even in the face of mounting evidence refuting certain parts. In my quest for intellectual honesty, I could not continue to fool myself as I had seen so many others do. And so, while I still read the book, I do not regard it in the same way that I once did, but in a rather similar way to the Bible. I feel as if I had listened in during the "Talk with Nathaniel"... only this time the topic was the Urantia Book and not the Hebrew scriptures. There may be many great truths embedded in these pages, but I no longer look to it for facts.

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The wise investigator waits until all the evidence is in before declaring a verdict, especially when it comes to evolved vs revealed science. Evidence is still 'accumulating', and will be far beyond our lives. You are being hasty and presumptous imo (maybe that's how you got that doubting moniker?)

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree if that's your final stance dt. It is quite saddening to hear one who claims the title educator make such rash, disputable and unsupportable declarations. Wait til all the coins have been counted before announcing the total, eh? rw

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.. Wait til all the coins have been counted before announcing the total, eh?

...but you can weigh the coins and know that even if they're all the highest denomination the total will still be short. Disputable... yes... you can dispute anything, even a parking ticket. Rash? Unsupportable? No... I think you need to start reading some scientific literature. You're reacting in precisely the same way that a Bible believer reacts when told that Noah's flood did not and could not have covered the whole world. THAT is what's sad here.

 

The issue here is not really whether the Urantia Book is wrong on factual scientific points. I believe that it is, others believe differently. The evidence accumulates and will eventually be clear to all who are willing to honestly look at it. The issue is, how does our relationship to the book and its teachings change when we come to this realization? People like assurances and dislike uncertainty... it is unsettling to have the scaffolding of your universe view crumble out from under your feet. Imagine being present when Jesus had his Talk With Nathaniel... only this time he's talking about the UB.

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Imagine being present when Jesus had his Talk With Nathaniel... only this time he's talking about the UB.

 

Hi DT,

The diference i see, is that Jesus was talking about men...humans...and their falibility in perceiving the vision of God.

The papers were not writen by humans, higher beings wrote them.

In the case of the races of color...a Life Carrier wrote this paper.

Life Carriers should know of what they speak!

If any part of this revelation is wrong, then the whole may well be wrong!

No greater than other inspired works of .....man.

 

DT if you beleive DNA, above the Life Carriers account of the races of color;

what do you think of TUB?

I'm just a simple man, a worker with arthuritic hands [lol]

but as a Urantian scientist i would darn well re evaluate the findings of your

DNA supositions.

....very important...i would thimk

Reed

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Your thinking sounds right Reed.

 

 

Hi Thomas,

 

The science so far has holes in it. They are forming conclusions based on incomplete, partial evidence. The non-rash researcher waits until all the data has been collected before arriving at and assuming a factual result that will bear up in time. Science evolves, and terrestrial science is a far throw from perfection, or anything approaching exhaustive research, it's only truly begun.

 

There's another highly variable factor at play, one the researchers can't easily overcome: The assumption that there are also no holes in their methods. Science is still coming about, and it cannot make absolute assertions about the history of the human race as you have attempted to do, not enough is known. Not until the scientists have found all the pieces, and then put them in the proper time sequence and location. When they've done that, we'll then know the whole pedigree of the several races, and whether this verifies revelation, or contradicts.

 

The science is not all in. And what of the extinct races? Will science find them too?

 

We'll see, but first let all the science come to the fore. $.02 rw

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Hello DT

You have a point here.

Therefore I am saying as plainly as I can, that we must always look to science first rather than to the Urantia Book when it comes to understanding the nature of physical reality.

 

However, physical reality(a part) is not finite reality(total), there is a big difference between a scientist with cosmic consciousness and a scientific with material consciousness only, Bible readers do not have cosmic consciousness and respond with loyalty rather than reason, you seriously think that a Urantia Book reader (with cosmic consciousness) respond in the same way, then my conclusion is that you have not got the faintest idea about cosmic levels of understanding finite reality (material, intellectual and spiritual reality) something that a Urantia Book reader will eventually acquire (you will need more than one read to get that).

 

Religion and science go hand in hand, but they are of different nature.

P.1110 - §5 Science deals with facts; religion is concerned only with values.

Facts is not values, facts is not truth. P.68 - §5 Religion is not grounded in the facts of science... To let science, materialistic science, affect your religion is not that reasonable.

 

Yes, we got defensive for the simple reason that your statement about the discoveries of the origin of the races tends to be absolute as if your science deals with finals, not even cosmic science deals with finals, only with relatives.

P.42 - §2 All finite knowledge and creature understanding are relative.

 

The only way your materialistic science could change my mind about the origin of the races would be that that science could travel in time and take me to the actual moment of the happening and then by direct observation of the happenings could say this and that, so for the time being I will stick to the life carrier statement (also a scientific by the way) who actually participated in the happenings, besides if we apply what you are saying about the origin of the races in the UB the whole consistency of the uplifting of the races and amalgamation simple crumble and that would mean that the ascencion plan designed by the First Source and Center is flawed and that is just not possible, remember the Fisrt Source and Center is Perfect so it's his plan.

 

Read you soon

U-rantian

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In the case of the races of color...a Life Carrier wrote this paper. Life Carriers should know of what they speak! If any part of this revelation is wrong, then the whole may well be wrong! No greater than other inspired works of .....man.

DT if you beleive DNA, above the Life Carriers account of the races of color; what do you think of TUB? Reed

 

A valid question, and one that I have asked myself many times. This is the crux of the matter, and again I make comparison to my conflicts over curriculum with Bible Believers. I can show without a shadow of a doubt that Noah's Flood never covered the whole world. Any one of a large number of lines of argument and geological evidence would suffice to prove once and for all that this is so, and thus show that the Bible story is a fabrication. It is NOT necessary to rely on the TUB to refute the Noah story, though the fact that it does refute and explain the story is one of the things that first attracted me to TUB. But Bible believers will continue to rely on skewed interpretations of science from their own publications, and fall back on saying that science doesn't know everything, and someday science will prove the Bible is right. First natural philosophy... then science... has fought this battle with biblical interpretation for centuries, but dogmatically rigid believers continue to hold to false beliefs which colors their ability to function in the world and make rational decisions at the voting booth.

 

Will believers in TUB be just more of the same? Are we unable to recognize that information in our book may be erroneous? Again I mention the Talk With Nathaniel... in which Jesus explains to Nathaniel that great truths may still be found in the scriptural records even if Jonah was never swallowed by a whale. In this same way we must be able to fluidize our thinking, to break free from this self-same rigidity of thought that so confounds our Bible believing brethren. Else there may well arise fundamentalist sects within the TUB movement, which will proclaim such things as I am saying heresies and form inquisitions to pronounce judgements.

 

I am the doubting Thomas. I must be shown. Observation and the scientific are (IMO) the ONLY valid tools for the interpretation of physical facts and phenomena. How do I know that a Life Carrier wrote those papers? Did Gabriel appear in my dining room to tell me so? If the story in TUB was strongly supported by the gathering of new data, then I would seriously consider the possibility of the story being real. But science is moving further and further away from any interpretation that could possibly be tweaked to match the Sangik story. Science may not get everything right all at once... but like a golfer, it tends to move closer and closer to the final answer with every fit and start. But science is not moving closer to TUB, but further away.

 

So today, some fifty years after this 5th epochal revelation, we are in a situation analagous to that of the natural philosophers of the renaissance times, who had to deal with the rigidity of Christian thought while pursuing studies of astronomy and chemistry and physics. The church slowly and begrudgingly gave way to science... delaying and causing great confusion and suffering in the process.

 

If only the church could have stuck to their spiritual message and left history and science to the historians and scientists. We understand as readers of TUB that the Bible is nothing more than a compilation of the works of men. I suggest... and label me a heretic if you must... that we have the courage to look at The Urantia Book in the same way... there to glean what spiritual truths we may, but not to take seriously the stories meant for childlike minds of a scientifically unsophisticated age.

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Hello DT

The issue is, how does our relationship to the book and its teachings change when we come to this realization? People like assurances and dislike uncertainty... it is unsettling to have the scaffolding of your universe view crumble out from under your feet. Imagine being present when Jesus had his Talk With Nathaniel... only this time he's talking about the UB.

P.1223 - §3 Uncertainty with security is the essence of the Paradise adventure--uncertainty in time and in mind, uncertainty as to the events of the unfolding Paradise ascent; security in spirit and in eternity, security in the unqualified trust of the creature son in the divine compassion and infinite love of the Universal Father; uncertainty as an inexperienced citizen of the universe; security as an ascending son in the universe mansions of an all-powerful, all-wise, and all-loving Father.

A religionist, with cosmic levels of understanding, does not look security in time his security lies in the existential level, eternity , Havona, that is stable it has been for eternity. What is stable in time and space? What is stable in the evolutionary universes?

 

The issue about our relationship with revelation (not necessarily with the Book) should not be one of desillusion, in a growing universe change is happening everyday, besides if you manage to contact the Thouht Adjuster he will clarify any misunderstanding or innacuraccy of any book, what the Urantia Book teaches us among other things is to talk to God and God knows everything, in that everything is also physical reality, so if anyone let their religion be affected by the discoveries of facts then his religion is not real, his personal religion is not growing symmetrically.

 

Urantia Book readers have their securities in Eternity even though we maybe uncertain in time.

 

U-rantian

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...... something that a Urantia Book reader will eventually acquire (you will need more than one read to get that)........ besides if we apply what you are saying about the origin of the races in the UB the whole consistency of the uplifting of the races and amalgamation simple crumble and that would mean that the ascencion plan designed by the First Source and Center is flawed and that is just not possible, remember the Fisrt Source and Center is Perfect so it's his plan.

Dear U:

I assure you that I've spent a lot of time reading The Urantia Book... at least ten times through over a thirty year span... aside from intensive studies of specific papers. I don't know about cosmic consciousness though. My entire first reading was spent in a state of interestedness. I did not find myself believing until after the second full read. But after coming into conflict with Bible believers over their irrational beliefs I began to question my own belief in the Urantia Book, and how much of that faith was irrational. I looked hard at the Sangik story and compared it to the latest finding of mitochondrial DNA research... and found TUB to be wanting. For a time I held onto my belief, struggling to say to myself that the "life carriers know best"... but in the end this Doubting Thomas had to stand up for TRUTH. For wherever truth leads, there we must follow, no matter how difficult, no matter how uncomfortable.

 

And so yes, in my heart the entire consistency of TUB has crumbled, the endless ages of eternity have collapsed to the NOW, the infinte reaches of the outer space levels have collapsed to the HERE, and the ascension plan of becoming has narrowed simply to BE.

 

BE HERE NOW

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Hello DT :rolleyes:

My comments in this colour

Will believers in TUB be just more of the same?

I do hope NOT.

Are we unable to recognize that information in our book may be erroneous?

Not really, the revelators did say that will happen so not problem about that.

Again I mention the Talk With Nathaniel... in which Jesus explains to Nathaniel that great truths may still be found in the scriptural records even if Jonah was never swallowed by a whale. In this same way we must be able to fluidize our thinking, to break free from this self-same rigidity of thought that so confounds our Bible believing brethren.

Urantia Book readers are not Bible readers there is a big difference.

Else there may well arise fundamentalist sects within the TUB movement, which will proclaim such things as I am saying heresies and form inquisitions to pronounce judgements.

 

P.1109 - §2 Because your world is generally ignorant of origins, even of physical origins, it has appeared to be wise from time to time to provide instruction in cosmology. And always has this made trouble for the future. The laws of revelation hamper us greatly by their proscription of the impartation of unearned or premature knowledge. Any cosmology presented as a part of revealed religion is destined to be outgrown in a very short time. Accordingly, future students of such a revelation are tempted to discard any element of genuine religious truth it may contain because they discover errors on the face of the associated cosmologies therein presented.

 

I am sure you are correct about some things, and you also have the right to express your doubts about the Urantia Book, no problem with that. I think that the difference between Bible readers and Urantia Book readers is that we don't believe that the Urantia Book is the perfect word of God, as the Bible readers do, so even though I may feel uncomfortable when someone attacks the Urantia Book doesn't mean that you will be called a heretic, personally I think that more trouble and intolerance we, urantia book, readers will have with the Channalers rather than the scientists.

 

So, I thank you for being here expressing you doubts and at least we can have a good debate about it, that is all. When we get to the morontia worlds probably we both may have to correct many things :P

U-rantian

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Dear DT

And so yes, in my heart the entire consistency of TUB has crumbled, the endless ages of eternity have collapsed to the NOW, the infinte reaches of the outer space levels have collapsed to the HERE, and the ascension plan of becoming has narrowed simply to BE.

P.1118 - §4 But honest doubts and sincere questionings are not sin; such attitudes merely spell delay in the progressive journey toward perfection attainment. Childlike trust secures man's entrance into the kingdom of heavenly ascent, but progress is wholly dependent on the vigorous exercise of the robust and confident faith of the full-grown man.

 

I don't have any problem with people doubting about the UB, and I am not calling you heretic or anything like that either, you are a son of God and you are my brother in the end that is what really matters, besides the keys of the kingdom is sincerity, sincerity and sincerity plus decisions, decisions and more decisions, the keys are not to believe blindly in any book.

:rolleyes:

U-rantian

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