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Carolyn

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Dear Phil and Jose,

 

It was interesting to me to find out that when I wrote about wolves and sheep I was referring to Robert, (Iwas not). I recall the last post (chronologically) I made in reference to him was one that expressed forgiveness.

 

Phil,Please don't be a victim of your own presuppositions. I am sorry that you might not like me or disagree with what I put forth. Like you I will not hide and have zero secrets, am also a long-time member of AA and help out alot of people just by sitting around tables and talking.

 

It is beyond me how you arrived at "righteous indignation' from what I wrote about Robert. He is brusque and unnecessarily abrupt, sometimes rude, tangental and verbose. Yet he has as much right to be here as do I providing he follows the rules and isn't being disruptive for the sake of his own entertainment. When personal feuds disrupt peace and harmony, it time to tell the fighters to "take it outside."

 

Finally, I had nothing to do with Robert being removed from this forum. I look forward to his return. I will disagree with his tone and content directly.

 

Bill

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Hi Bill;

 

you wrote;

 

It was interesting to me to find out that when I wrote about wolves and sheep I was referring to Robert, (Iwas not).

 

reply;

 

I made the mistake of ASSUMING since Roberts suspension was the Topic

 

never mind ;)

 

you wrote;

 

I am sorry that you don't like me or disagree with what I put forth.

 

reply;

 

I may disagree with some of your input

 

as many disagree with my input sometimes

 

but I did quote in a recent post;

 

"Most of Bills nastiness[self told righteous Indignation] is forgettable and off the mark.

 

But Bill is a brother and does post sincere and thoughtful information when not consumed

with trying to Judge then control those who he personally dislikes or disagrees with.

 

Hey I give myself that same privilege[self imposed righteous Indignation] not my best trait but part of me none the less."

 

COMMENT;

 

ok the first sentence was unnecessary and maybe slightly rude ;)

 

But it doesn't mean I don't like you as a person

 

If your an AA member and UB reader you can't be but so Bad ;)

 

Ok enough of the sarcastic Humor.

 

How about some AA humor;

 

This is a true story;[short version]

 

I went to a Detox meeting;

 

A man came out of the Detox room looking well traveled so to speak

 

And was insistent on sharing first.

 

He explained how he called home and when his brother answered

 

he could tell his brother was drunk at the time.

 

This man turned and looked us all in the face and said;

 

Doesn't he know I'm trying to go on the wagon

 

Why cant my family just stop drinking.

 

phil

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Phil and Jose,

 

It was interesting to me to find out that when I wrote about wolves and sheep I was referring to Robert, (Iwas not). I recall the last post (chronologically) I made in reference to him was one that expressed forgiveness.

 

Please don't be a victim of your own presuppositions. I am sorry that you don't like me or disagree with what I put forth. Like you I will not hide and have zero secrets, am also a long-time member of AA and help out alot of people just by sitting around tables and talking.

 

Finally, I had nothing to do with Robert being removed from this forum. I look forward to his return. I will disagree with his tone and content directly.

 

Bill

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Guest Seraphic_Park

Hi everyone,

 

There have been some interesting observations made in this thread and I would like to toss a few of my own if that's okay ;)

 

 

Traffic on the site: I wouldn't worry about it. It takes time for UB readers who also are on the internet and who are inclined to participate on discussion forums like these to find them in the first place and then find or initiate subjects on which they have something to say. Also as to member numbers, I would be in favor of suggesting time limits with posting-membership. Some people come by and register and never post anything. It is as if they are not here at all. It is not necessary to register to simply read the forums so maybe member registrations should be deleted after a certain passage of time with no posts? Some sites don't care about this. They are happy to have a large number of "members" showing on their statistics even though the members aren't participating. I don't see the point of tolerating this. Members who ARE here and who do participate can see for themselves how many persons actually seem to be around and participating.

 

There was an earlier comment berating discussions concerning the so called Teaching Mission. This too is unnecessary. Any suggestion that the teaching mission is harmful of the 5th ER is equivalent to saying that Mormonism is harmful to the 5th ER, or Methodists, or Islams, or Catholics , or name the group here > {.......} Such suggestions are poppycock and balderdash notions of certain persons wanting to attack the differing beliefs of other.....believers.

 

Jesus instructed that we should have NO concerns over our neighbor's religious attitude. If we are sure of what we believe....what difference does it make what anyone else believes? Said Jesus, " Have you religion? Then have it to yourself." Wise words

 

Religion is PURELY a matter of personal experience.

 

That said, it remains fine and dandy if this site or any other UB site wishes or not to entertain discussions involving any other movement whether or not the movement is related to the UB.

 

Thank you and enjoy ;)

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The group decision are very important. If was my case I unconditional accept that decision because effect in group. The more variable that group more better. Sometimes, like a individual persons, it is difficult to us accept some decisions that is the problem, but when can make a group decision, help us to consider our personal intentions. How many cultures are here… And all cultures must be respect. Sometimes like a individual persons can’t know the context, the intentions that go in the events. For me, the group decisions are very important.

 

I remember the wonderful recommendation from the Master. He said:

 

2146833192_08e50ae9e0_o.jpg

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Guest Seraphic_Park

Hello Jose,

 

Well maybe and sometimes ;)

 

 

The fact remains that religion is a matter of personal experience.

 

Groups are needed to decide upon SECULAR issues like group conduct and the making of civil laws and group business decisions ect...

 

However the UB points out the ever-potential problem with this democratic procedure. The majority of a group may vote or decide to do a thing....but the thing decided upon may be the WRONG thing to do lined up against God's law and/or cosmic reality.

 

Spiritual things must be considered separately from secular and material things.

 

Food for thought!

 

Thanks friend

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Guest U-rantian

Dear Seraphic Park

 

1.-

There was an earlier comment berating discussions concerning the so called Teaching Mission. This too is unnecessary. Any suggestion that the teaching mission is harmful of the 5th ER is equivalent to saying that Mormonism is harmful to the 5th ER, or Methodists, or Islams, or Catholics , or name the group here > {.......} Such suggestions are poppycock and balderdash notions of certain persons wanting to attack the differing beliefs of other.....believers.

That is not exactly so. Some Christians say that the Urantia Book has been written by the devil. Guess what they would do with the Book and the readers, if this belief is spread.

 

Also, we, in this forum, are not willing to give place to so called "revelations" that come through channelling. There is a great difference between studying chanelling material and the Urantia Papers.

 

2.-

Jesus instructed that we should have NO concerns over our neighbor's religious attitude. If we are sure of what we believe....what difference does it make what anyone else believes? Said Jesus, " Have you religion? Then have it to yourself."

Everything is relative, Jesus was talking in the relative. Jesus also said.

P.1730 - §0 The appeal of all such religions is largely to the mind. And now are we about to enter upon a deadly conflict with such a religion since we will so shortly begin the bold proclamation of a new religion--a religion which is not a religion in the present-day meaning of that word, a religion that makes its chief appeal to the divine spirit of my Father which resides in the mind of man;

 

P.1728 - §7 3. True religion--the religion of revelation. The revelation of supernatural values, a partial insight into eternal realities, a glimpse of the goodness and beauty of the infinite character of the Father in heaven--the religion of the spirit as demonstrated in human experience.

 

3.-

Religion is PURELY a matter of personal experience.

Yes, it is. But not everyone is with the religion of the revelation based on experience. Many are with the following.

P.1728 - §5 1. Primitive religion.

P.1728 - §6 2. The religion of civilization.

What kind of civilization do you think they are going to have with these beliefs?

 

Many times to balance idealism with the reality of evolutionary universes is necessary.

 

Thanks

U-rantian

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Dear Seraphic Park,

 

I have to second the post of U-rantian. TM'rs are saprophitic in nature subsisting upon the living energies of those Urantia Book readers who choose to give them credence and attention.

 

I attended all of the early Brotherhood Conferences and led a workshop at Snowmass 1980 with my fellow presenter Matthew Block on the "FINITE GOD." Over the years, the urantia Book remained the center of focus of all these affairs. After the "breakup" of the Brotherhood, the Fellowship held conferences that increasingly became "BIG TENT" extravaganzas allowing everyone from UFO enthusiasts, crystal energy nuts, yoga devotees etc,etc,etc an equal share. This led to the minimalization of the Fifth Epochal Revelation, in my estimation, a carnival-like atmosphere unbecoming what a Urantia Book conference should be.

 

Discontent among FEF members who were tired of the attacks on the Urantia Foundation by rebels and the growing desire of all to hold conferences and support an organization that were about studying the Urantia Book, led to the solid growth of

the UAI (formerly IUA) and directly to this forum.

 

This Forum is about studying the Urantia Book and ONLY the Urantia Book and what directly relates to that study. It will not be a bandstand for the promotion of people who get all their credibility from saying " almost everything you read in the Urantia Book is true, except for______________________ (fill in the blank), which now changes everything. Here, listen. We'll channel Ham or Gog or Shem or Magog, they'll tell you."

 

I will fight these kinds of parasites to my dying breath and sleep easy every night.

 

 

I could not have made such an eloquent, pointed and relevant reply to Seraphic Park as you did U-rantian. I am proud to have a brother who could.

 

 

Bill Martin

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Guest Seraphic_Park

Hi Bill and U-rantian,

 

Well I will disagree with you and stand by what I said previously. Perhaps a new thread should be started in one of the other forums. It would be disrespectful to continue to take this thread off topic.

 

Thanks

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Hello,

 

I looked up the line you say Jesus said. But he actually said, "Have you faith?"

 

Jesus instructed that we should have NO concerns over our neighbor's religious attitude. If we are sure of what we believe....what difference does it make what anyone else believes? Said Jesus, " Have you religion? Then have it to yourself." Wise words

 

Religion is PURELY a matter of personal experience.

 

Thank you and enjoy ;)

 

And this is the context in which "Have you faith?" appears (Paper 99, page 1090):

 

"5. SOCIAL ASPECTS OF RELIGION

 

"While religion is exclusively a personal spiritual experience--knowing God as a Father--the corollary of this experience--knowing man as a brother--entails the adjustment of the self to other selves, and that involves the social or group aspect of religious life. Religion is first an inner or personal adjustment, and then it becomes a matter of social service or group adjustment. The fact of man's gregariousness perforce determines that religious groups will come into existence. What happens to these religious groups depends very much on intelligent leadership. In primitive society the religious group is not always very

Page 1091 different from economic or political groups. Religion has always been a conservator of morals and a stabilizer of society. And this is still true, notwithstanding the contrary teaching of many modern socialists and humanists.

 

"Always keep in mind: True religion is to know God as your Father and man as your brother. Religion is not a slavish belief in threats of punishment or magical promises of future mystical rewards.

 

"The religion of Jesus is the most dynamic influence ever to activate the human race. Jesus shattered tradition, destroyed dogma, and called mankind to the achievement of its highest ideals in time and eternity--to be perfect, even as the Father in heaven is perfect.

 

"Religion has little chance to function until the religious group becomes separated from all other groups--the social association of the spiritual membership of the kingdom of heaven.

 

"The doctrine of the total depravity of man destroyed much of the potential of religion for effecting social repercussions of an uplifting nature and of inspirational value. Jesus sought to restore man's dignity when he declared that all men are the children of God.

 

"Any religious belief which is effective in spiritualizing the believer is certain to have powerful repercussions in the social life of such a religionist. Religious experience unfailingly yields the "fruits of the spirit" in the daily life of the spirit-led mortal.

 

"Just as certainly as men share their religious beliefs, they create a religious group of some sort which eventually creates common goals. Someday religionists will get together and actually effect co-operation on the basis of unity of ideals and purposes rather than attempting to do so on the basis of psychological opinions and theological beliefs. Goals rather than creeds should unify religionists. Since true religion is a matter of personal spiritual experience, it is inevitable that each individual religionist must have his own and personal interpretation of the realization of that spiritual experience. Let the term "faith" stand for the individual's relation to God rather than for the creedal formulation of what some group of mortals have been able to agree upon as a common religious attitude. "Have you faith? Then have it to yourself."

 

"That faith is concerned only with the grasp of ideal values is shown by the New Testament definition which declares that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

 

"Primitive man made little effort to put his religious convictions into words. His religion was danced out rather than thought out. Modern men have thought out many creeds and created many tests of religious faith. Future religionists must live out their religion, dedicate themselves to the wholehearted service of the brotherhood of man. It is high time that man had a religious experience so personal and so sublime that it could be realized and expressed only by "feelings that lie too deep for words."

 

"Jesus did not require of his followers that they should periodically assemble and recite a form of words indicative of their common beliefs. He only ordained that they should gather together to actually do something--partake of the communal supper of the remembrance of his bestowal life on Urantia.

 

"What a mistake for Christians to make when, in presenting Christ as the supreme ideal of spiritual leadership, they dare to require God-conscious men and women to reject the historic leadership of the God-knowing men who have contributed to their particular national or racial illumination during past ages."

 

Good reading,

Meredith

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Hi Bill;

 

You wrote;[edited]

 

I attended all of the early Brotherhood Conferences and led a workshop at Snowmass 1980 with my fellow presenter Matthew Block on the "FINITE GOD." Over the years, the urantia Book remained the center of focus of all these affairs. After the "breakup" of the Brotherhood, the Fellowship held conferences that increasingly became "BIG TENT" extravaganzas allowing everyone from UFO enthusiasts, crystal energy nuts, yoga devotees etc,etc,etc an equal share. This led to the minimalization of the Fifth Epochal Revelation, in my estimation, a carnival-like atmosphere unbecoming what a Urantia Book conference should be.

 

AND;

 

I will fight these kinds of parasites to my dying breath and sleep easy every night.

 

REPLY;

 

Here we agree totally amazing huh ;)

 

I was disheartened when first being confronted with all you describe above.

 

The first time I saw the UB mentioned in the public media was in a UFO

program.

 

Then when I joined Ubron it was loaded with New Agers and Teamers.

 

The UB I READ never supported the big three Mortal alien UFO,CHANNELING,New Age fluff

 

I fought hard[carnival] using the UB but it started hurting me spiritually

 

I was holding Anger and resentment and you being familiar with AA

 

You know that is dangerous to my health.

 

I need my spiritual gas tank full to get by day to day and

dealing with Carnival eats up a lot of gas.

 

I am learning to deal with it in a more efficient manner but

every once in a while I empty my tank.

 

And it feels right in a guilty pleasure sort of way ;)

 

PHIL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Seraphic Park,

 

I have to second the post of U-rantian. TM'rs are saprophitic in nature subsisting upon the living energies of those Urantia Book readers who choose to give them credence and attention.

 

I attended all of the early Brotherhood Conferences and led a workshop at Snowmass 1980 with my fellow presenter Matthew Block on the "FINITE GOD." Over the years, the urantia Book remained the center of focus of all these affairs. After the "breakup" of the Brotherhood, the Fellowship held conferences that increasingly became "BIG TENT" extravaganzas allowing everyone from UFO enthusiasts, crystal energy nuts, yoga devotees etc,etc,etc an equal share. This led to the minimalization of the Fifth Epochal Revelation, in my estimation, a carnival-like atmosphere unbecoming what a Urantia Book conference should be.

 

Discontent among FEF members who were tired of the attacks on the Urantia Foundation by rebels and the growing desire of all to hold conferences and support an organization that were about studying the Urantia Book, led to the solid growth of

the UAI (formerly IUA) and directly to this forum.

 

This Forum is about studying the Urantia Book and ONLY the Urantia Book and what directly relates to that study. It will not be a bandstand for the promotion of people who get all their credibility from saying " almost everything you read in the Urantia Book is true, except for______________________ (fill in the blank), which now changes everything. Here, listen. We'll channel Ham or Gog or Shem or Magog, they'll tell you."

 

I will fight these kinds of parasites to my dying breath and sleep easy every night.

 

 

I could not have made such an eloquent, pointed and relevant reply to Seraphic Park as you did U-rantian. I am proud to have a brother who could.

 

 

Bill Martin

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Yeah, brother!

 

Resentment is powerfully dangerous stuff.(the number one reason why people slip and "go back out") It is always better, easier in the long-run, to forgive someone. That way you can look them directly in the soul with sincere caring in your heart instead of negativity. If they come around, you are available and there for them. If evil clouds their vision,and self-assertion subverts their will, then you can always pray for them.

 

God's will be done

 

will-i-am

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Guest rich.sachs

not sure of the jcl connection to carolyn but it's the same. if you love the book, like me, then just post away and if you get some comments, great, if not, then i always learn something myself when i dig into the ub with a query of some kind by some poster. it's all for one's own edification seemingly. intelligent, intellectual, enthusiasum is all a judgement call, and what one person thinks is such another person won't.

 

Dear Admin,

 

When I look at the Forum it looks like the jcl Showand I find this embarassing.

 

So my question is; to post or not to post?

 

By reading far back into the history of the Forum, I found far more enthusiam and more intellectual (as relates to TUB) dialogue than today. Not a judgement meant, but a concern. Am I being too critical of jcl? Are we all on the logical road at this point in time and space?

 

Thank you for your advice in advance.

 

Regards,

 

jcl

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