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Hi Team,

 

Have to admit these decisions are tough for me too Mario. But you asked for our thots.

 

If we use the past is an indicator, he will soon break the rules. That will no doubt cause another round of stink, hurt and more resentment as he's banned from the site.

 

This is probably one of those situations where the Master would say, work it out among yourselves...

 

....It sounds like you are leaning toward giving him one last chance, maybe it's best. At least that way he's put in the position of making the decision and we have only to enforce the site's established rules. Still it's painful to have to reject anyone. And now, the two Robs (Davis and Reno) will surely put admin is another tough spot.

 

No one really likes listops job, that I know of. Rick

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Hi,

 

I say no, no to allowing Claude back on. It is not our job to change Claude. He has his habits. I agree with Rick that his past is an indicator of his future conduct here on the forum. His repeated insistence on being allowed back indicates his tenaciousness, like a pleading, begging child. He is not clamoring to get into the kingdom of God. That's between him and God. We moderators are not judges of the kingdom of God. It is my opinion that Claude derives a sense of identity of himself as a person who gets thrown out of various venues. Claude is an immature brother with a broken wing. His restoration to good health and maturity is not our job. His restoration is between him and God. There are plenty of other places where he can prosecute his weirdness. I do not believe letting him back on will change him, but it will add to our grief in having to deal with his problems once again. I say no.

 

I think this forum is developing slowly, but solidly, and is generally characterized as a place to meet other UB readers who are stable and who are sincerely interested in studying the Urantia Book, not other material. I like this very much. In general I like the quality of people who show up here. I think we should strive for this, while respecting each other's personality and viewpoints.

 

It is hard for me to sort through robert's posts. I don't read them, because I can't stand obfuscation. I am glad U-rantian is willing, and apparently able, to take him on.

 

Meredith

 

Hi Team,

 

Have to admit these decisions are tough for me too Mario. But you asked for our thots.

 

If we use the past is an indicator, he will soon break the rules. That will no doubt cause another round of stink, hurt and more resentment as he's banned from the site.

 

This is probably one of those situations where the Master would say, work it out among yourselves...

 

....It sounds like you are leaning toward giving him one last chance, maybe it's best. At least that way he's put in the position of making the decision and we have only to enforce the site's established rules. Still it's painful to have to reject anyone. And now, the two Robs (Davis and Reno) will surely put admin is another tough spot.

 

No one really likes listops job, that I know of. Rick

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Claude just signed up again to subscribe, Nov 18th.

Subscribers who sign up are designated "validating members" until approved or deleted.

As validating members they cannot post.

 

I think he's trying to be irritating.

Will delete again his account after I finish this note.

 

Okay, done.

I not only deleted his account but also added a filter to his email address and IP address. That means he cannot subscribe from either. It also means that next time he subscribes it will be from another email address and I may let that through. We are familiar with his style and thinking... He'll reveal himself sooner or later.

 

admin

 

 

Then, who is "Claude" who is at this moment online as a member?

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Claude Martel trying to get back in for the nth time.

Jan 1, 2008.

 

His display name:

 

"peace"

 

new email address

claude.martel@caramail.com

 

Any comments?

Anyone want to write to him?

He is a validating member, meaning he cannot post.

 

admin

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I would send him a post that goes something like this:

 

Dear Claude,

 

The forum moderators are aware that you are trying to get back on the forum. We are in the process of discussing this. In the past, as a member of the forum, you did not change your ways when the moderators asked you to do so. We are very familiar with your habits. It is not our job to change you. Our job is to monitor the posts the members add to the forum to ensure that forum rules are followed and that forum discussions pertain to the book we read and study - The Urantia Book.

 

You are welcome to read the forum as a guest.

 

Sincerely,

Meredith Van Woert

 

Does anybody else want something else added? Let me know.

 

M.

 

 

Claude Martel trying to get back in for the nth time.

Jan 1, 2008.

 

His display name:

 

"peace"

 

new email address

claude.martel@caramail.com

 

Any comments?

Anyone want to write to him?

He is a validating member, meaning he cannot post.

 

admin

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Hi Meredith,

 

Claude or any non-subscriber or visitor can read the posts in the public forums. So your sentence

 

"You are welcome to read the forum as a guest."

 

is not really saying anything... is it?

 

I'd pose questions along these lines and you can quote me if you like:

 

"Why do you keep trying to subscribe? What do you want? And are you going to abide by the rules of the UB forum? Will you continue to promote your teaching mission slant on things? This is a Urantia Book forum not a teaching mission forum."

 

admin

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Okay. How about:

 

Dear Claude,

 

The forum moderators are aware that you are trying to get back on the forum. Why do you keep trying to subscribe? Are you going to abide by the rules of the UB forum? Will you continue to promote your teaching mission slant on things?

 

In the past, as a member of the forum, you did not change your ways when the moderators asked you to do so. We are very familiar with your habits. It is not our job to change you. Our job is to monitor the posts the members add to the forum to ensure that forum rules are followed and that forum discussions pertain to the book we read and study - The Urantia Book.

 

This is a Urantia Book forum not a teaching mission forum.

 

Sincerely,

Meredith Van Woert

 

Hi Meredith,

 

Claude or any non-subscriber or visitor can read the posts in the public forums. So your sentence

 

"You are welcome to read the forum as a guest."

 

is not really saying anything... is it?

 

I'd pose questions along these lines and you can quote me if you like:

 

"Why do you keep trying to subscribe? What do you want? And are you going to abide by the rules of the UB forum? Will you continue to promote your teaching mission slant on things? This is a Urantia Book forum not a teaching mission forum."

 

admin

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I just sent Claude this PM:

 

"Dear Claude,

 

"The forum moderators are aware that you are trying to get back on the UAI forum. Why do you keep trying to subscribe? Are you going to abide by the rules of the UB forum? Will you continue to promote your teaching mission slant on things?

 

"In the past, as a member of the forum, you did not change your ways when the moderators asked you to do so. We are very familiar with your habits. It is not our job to change you. Our job is to monitor the posts the members add to the forum to ensure that forum rules are followed and that forum discussions pertain to the book we read and study - The Urantia Book.

 

"This is a Urantia Book forum, not a teaching mission forum.

 

"Sincerely,

"Meredith Van Woert

"UAI Forum"

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Guest mod2

Dear Moderators,

 

I have read the past posts on Claude. Let's not keep beating our head against the wall because it feels so good when we stop.

 

Maybe people will get the idea we don't entertain provocotive issues just for their own sake, an example being PHIL who didn't post here , instead personally posted me that stuff about Matt Block/Sadlers. Let's start this Forum out right. Perhaps we can encourage peaceful and contemplative souls to take part here in the "wonder of it all" if we can lose the "noise" and lift the level to a spiritual acceptable fragrance.

 

Claude wants to fight then whine when it doesn't go well.

 

Billmartin

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This is Claude's reply to me today to my post:

 

Hello Meredith,

 

Thank you to answer me.

First my major problem at IUA and others english forum is that it is difficult for me to exprime clearly my thoughts because i am not good in english.

 

It is not better now. Remember how jen have treated me considering me from Teaching Mission.

I was not from teaching mission (only) Do you know that i was put out from the 11:11 Angels message Board? I had very hard problems especialy with Mr. Geoff and a little bit with George.

The UB say that we are all brothers and sisters...do you beleive this? realy. I have a christian back grund

without being in a specific chuch. I know two majors kind of christians. Pentecostals and Baptist.

Actualy there is those who beleive in the spirit things ™ and strictely UB readers(like the UAI forum)

Do you think that is ok that there is two kinds of true beleivers with the UB?

Do you remember how it was working in the first church two thousands years ago?

It talk about it in Corantian letter.Some had the spiritual gift of prophety (eceving and sharing messages from God...It is wy i am not close to messages from "God" .

 

More we are with the same goal more we are strong. We must not be separate in two parts but work all together. And not only those who know about TUB but everyone who want to know God and to do His will.

 

Decide what you want but it not my fault if i beleive like i bleive for now. Three years ago i was beleiving differently and in two months i am shure i will be different too.

 

Claude.

--------------------

I think he is still interested in other things, such as prophesy and other messages. That is fine. Many people are interested in that sort of stuff. I note that he was removed from the 11:11 Angels message board (whatever that is), so, again, his claim to fame is that he not acceptable wherever he goes (or something like that) - he gets thrown out, kicked out, etc. It's too much of a problem for us here on the forum to have him post. His interests are all over the map. But, he is on his way. He's a child of God. He's a believer, a faither, a brother in the kingdom. He has my blessings, but it is my opinion that his presence on the forum would be too difficult for us and for our guests and subscribers.

 

Anyone else want to comment?

 

Meredith

 

I just sent Claude this PM:

 

"Dear Claude,

 

"The forum moderators are aware that you are trying to get back on the UAI forum. Why do you keep trying to subscribe? Are you going to abide by the rules of the UB forum? Will you continue to promote your teaching mission slant on things?

 

"In the past, as a member of the forum, you did not change your ways when the moderators asked you to do so. We are very familiar with your habits. It is not our job to change you. Our job is to monitor the posts the members add to the forum to ensure that forum rules are followed and that forum discussions pertain to the book we read and study - The Urantia Book.

 

"This is a Urantia Book forum, not a teaching mission forum.

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Thanks Bill and Meredith.

 

I deleted Claude's new attempt at subscription.

We already have our hands full.

 

admin

 

 

This is Claude's reply to me today to my post:

 

Hello Meredith,

 

Thank you to answer me.

First my major problem at IUA and others english forum is that it is difficult for me to exprime clearly my thoughts because i am not good in english.

 

It is not better now. Remember how jen have treated me considering me from Teaching Mission.

I was not from teaching mission (only) Do you know that i was put out from the 11:11 Angels message Board? I had very hard

Decide what you want but it not my fault if i beleive like i bleive for now. Three years ago i was beleiving differently and in two months i am shure i will be different too.

 

Claude.

--------------------

I think he is still interested in other things, such as prophesy and other messages. That is fine. Many people are interested in that sort of stuff. I note that he was removed from the 11:11 Angels message board (whatever that is), so, again, his claim to fame is that he not acceptable wherever he goes (or something like that) - he gets thrown out, kicked out, etc. It's too much of a problem for us here on the forum to have him post. His interests are all over the map. But, he is on his way. He's a child of God. He's a believer, a faither, a brother in the kingdom. He has my blessings, but it is my opinion that his presence on the forum would be too difficult for us and for our guests and subscribers.

 

Anyone else want to comment?

 

Meredith

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Dear Admin,

 

Do you have time to delete some of Claude's posts? This is what he just sent me:

 

Hi again Meredith.

 

I want some of my old messages to be deleted.

 

Thank you.

 

Claude.

 

 

His email: claude.martel@caramail.com

 

Thanks

M

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I mistakenly moved the "God-tube" topic started by Rick Warren to the Problem Posts area. I only meant to move the post by Bill as mod2...

Can't remember which forum the topic was originally posted.

 

Two emails from Claude Martel to forum admin, referring to a post by Bill/mod2.

This spells trouble. We could be sued by Claude.

The subject of his emails: "Libellous onto me by mod2."

 

Mario

 

First email:

Hi admin,

I do a pledge against what mod2 have did and put and not taken off this post against me.

Full of lies. I have had totaly normaly subscribed on the form the last time and with my usual emaill adress. The post is here http://www.urantia-uai.org/forums/index.ph...40&start=40

In the forum rules it is not allowed to writte texts like that.

 

Thank you.

 

Claude Martel, my genuine full name.

 

2nd email:

 

In my last message i have wrotte a pledge i mean a plaint.

 

Claude Martel.

 

2. Personal attacks. Attacks upon the character, personality, heritage, beliefs, motives, or actions of any persons are unacceptable.

 

Claude was referring to the following post by Bill as mod2:

 

Claude Martel, (violet)

 

You were asked to leave this forum before for being a troublemaker and cross-posting non-Urantia Book related Teaching Mission propoganda from their website.

 

It seems you want to use this forum as a vehicle to promote TM. Membership on this forum is for people who believe and support the Urantia Book, The Urantia Foundation and the Declaration of Trust and its Principal and Concordant Objects. You will not be allowed free reign to promulgate your rebellious fantasies here. The Door of Sympathy shut here long ago for those seeking to destroy the Book and pervert its teachings.

 

Your "hidden agenda" to insinuate your sinful sophistries in the healthy dialogue here is pitifully obvious. We have a duty to new readers to protect them from the confusion caused by your sinful deceptions and an obligation to sincere religionists to protect them from distraction of your dilatory ramblings that impede the free exchange of ideas. It would be best if you did not attempt to register here anymore by lies and deciept, as you did, once again, this time.

 

Moderator TWO

 

 

 

Dear Admin,

 

Do you have time to delete some of Claude's posts? This is what he just sent me:

 

Hi again Meredith.

 

I want some of my old messages to be deleted.

 

Thank you.

 

Claude.

 

 

His email: claude.martel@caramail.com

 

Thanks

M

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Guest U-rantian
Claude Martel, (violet)

 

You were asked to leave this forum before for being a troublemaker and cross-posting non-Urantia Book related Teaching Mission propoganda from their website.

 

It seems you want to use this forum as a vehicle to promote TM. Membership on this forum is for people who believe and support the Urantia Book, The Urantia Foundation and the Declaration of Trust and its Principal and Concordant Objects. You will not be allowed free reign to promulgate your rebellious fantasies here. The Door of Sympathy shut here long ago for those seeking to destroy the Book and pervert its teachings.

 

Your "hidden agenda" to insinuate your sinful sophistries in the healthy dialogue here is pitifully obvious. We have a duty to new readers to protect them from the confusion caused by your sinful deceptions and an obligation to sincere religionists to protect them from distraction of your dilatory ramblings that impede the free exchange of ideas. It would be best if you did not attempt to register here anymore by lies and deciept, as you did, once again, this time.

 

 

 

Moderator TWO

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Guest U-rantian

Hello Mario and all :P

 

1.- The topic has been restored where it was (Dissemination section) and Bill/Mod2 post has been deleted.

2.- A copy of Bill/Mod2 post has been put it here if necessary.

3. Posts cannot be made invisible, just deleted.

4.- Whole threads can be made invisible and moved (you can leave a link to connect to the section where it was moved) sometimes it all right to leave the link, when you want other people to trace that thread, but if you want people not to trace that thread then don't leave a link.

5.- If you move or delete a post, topic, thread etc. or make invisible please report so the rest of us will know what happened, just a quick line is enough.

6.- If you have made a mistake that is just a reminder that our cosmic surname is imperfection, but not to worry those mistakes will be forgotten in eternity :P , ooops! although they might not be forgotten in time so be careful, someone may tell you I told you :P :P

7.- Can Claude really sue us? :P

 

U-rantian

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Thanks U-rantian.

 

My response to Claude Martel's emails with the subject "Libellous onto me by mod2."

 

Dear Claude,

The post by moderator 2 has been removed. Do you have posts from your previous accounts that you want to be deleted?

I am no longer the admin of the forum, but there are still some things I can do.

Mario Caoile

 

I also deleted his last 2 remaining posts as violet and deleted his violet account.

 

Mario

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Hello Mario and all :P

.....

5.- If you move or delete a post, topic, thread etc. or make invisible please report so the rest of us will know what happened, just a quick line is enough.

6.- If you have made a mistake that is just a reminder that our cosmic surname is imperfection, but not to worry those mistakes will be forgotten in eternity :P , ooops! although they might not be forgotten in time so be careful, someone may tell you I told you :P :P

7.- Can Claude really sue us? :P

 

U-rantian

 

Can Claude sue us? It is possible. I'd rather prevent it than wait to find out whether he would do it.

 

Mario

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New email from Claude just in:

 

Thank you Mario.

No i think that there are np other post to delete for now.

 

Thank you again.

 

Claude Martel.

 

Whew, I think we're safe for now.

Mario

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New email from Claude just in:

 

 

 

Whew, I think we're safe for now.

Mario

 

Mario,

 

Are you sincerely concerned Claude Martel will sue? For what? What are the damages? How could he have been harmed by my doing my job as a moderator? And telling the Facts in public.

 

I will admit it was ill-considered to reply in public (which we shall not do any more) but what i said is on the record.

 

That is why i do not want any post deleted. I stand by my words and actions. We all need to be more action-oriented when there is trouble. When people break the rules, we need to do our jobs and not debate interminably, like we did with Robert.

 

When we see spam or actionable behaviour or content please give your warnings, remove prohibited material prevent further rule violations. Err on the side of prudence using the "reasonable man doctrine"--BUT DO THE JOB! Please.

 

 

Bill Martin

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There's not enough to sue anyone,

 

It was Bill's opinion. But I'd like it deleted off my subforum because you condemned the man morally Cap't Bill. Maybe it was immoral what he did, but that is a step beyond what Mods should take. He broke the rules, more than once, he's out of here---should suffice, whether someone is sinning is between Father and Son, ya? Forum must a place of rules, not personal and public judgement as to whether a sibling is sinning. $.01

 

See ya after the conference here, love ya Rick

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You are unnecesarily prolonging this affair with violet nee star nee salvington nee Claude for your own purposes. Your attempt to keep this alive must stop as it resulted originally from your mistake on YOUR subforum.

 

Further:

 

It was not my opinion.

(Claude blatantly broke the rules)

 

It was not a moral issue.

(He lied to get in here)

 

There WAS condemnation. This never should have happened.

(It happened because you let it happen Rick)

 

Don't let it happen again.For the record, please let's not make job performance personal here. And keep the politics where they belong, elsewhere.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Bill Martin

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Aye Captain Bluster,:P

 

Will be away from the computter. so farewell until next week, live maybe!

 

Gonna be a great conference, wish you all could come.

 

Loveyas, Rick

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Dear Rick,

 

A long talk with Ellen has convinced me I have misjudged you. She has shown me the error of my ways and I humbly ask you to excuse the suspicious manner in which I questioned your motives. At the time of this post, I had just received a questioning email from my ultimate supervisor questioning whether we needed liability insurance for the activities of this forum. Then you posted your reply:

 

 

There's not enough to sue anyone,

 

It was Bill's opinion. But I'd like it deleted off my subforum because you condemned the man morally Cap't Bill. Maybe it was immoral what he did, but that is a step beyond what Mods should take. He broke the rules, more than once, he's out of here---should suffice, whether someone is sinning is between Father and Son, ya? Forum must a place of rules, not personal and public judgement as to whether a sibling is sinning. $.01

 

See ya after the conference here, love ya Rick

 

What I said should have been said in a PM, just before he was kicked off this Forum,not on your subforum.

 

 

My reason for originally blasting him on your subforum was that, despite several days warning about his deception in registering- nothing was being done. Impatience on my part is no excuse for being impolite.

 

There is a great danger in inaction when confronted by evil. Through neglect it can become sin. It would be better to do something about rule breakers, even if it is not perfect, than to let error continue.

 

 

 

 

Rick, you have been here from the beginning. You have been the Dissemination Chairperson and are a tireless toiler in this forum. Your contribution is appreciated. I am convinced by Ellen you had no political benefit to gain by prolonging the discussion of banned ex-member Claude Martel.

 

 

 

Respectfully,

 

Bill Martin

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are unnecesarily prolonging this affair with violet nee star nee salvington nee Claude for your own purposes. Your attempt to keep this alive must stop as it resulted originally from your mistake on YOUR subforum.

 

Further:

 

It was not my opinion.

(Claude blatantly broke the rules)

 

It was not a moral issue.

(He lied to get in here)

 

There WAS condemnation. This never should have happened.

(It happened because you let it happen Rick)

 

Don't let it happen again.For the record, please let's not make job performance personal here. And keep the politics where they belong, elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

Bill Martin

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