Jump to content
Urantia Book Forum, conversations with other readers
Howard509

Urantia Book sales figures

Recommended Posts

What do you think of the claim that the Urantia Book has sold over six hundred thousand copies worldwide and that the number of copies sold per year has steadily increased? I looked on Amazon to see how well it sells compared to other books of its genre, and it's ranked all the way down at #254 among new age books:

 

http://www.amazon.co...&qid=1363647445

 

Even the Satanic Bible is selling more copies on Amazon. Why is this?

Edited by Howard509

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The number of sales means next to nothing these days.

 

The number of people reading, contemplating, and enacting (living according to the essence of the UB teachings) is all that matters. And that number is NOT directly dependent upon sales of the book, as it was even as little as 10 years ago.

 

Just focussing on readers (I cannot speak for contemplating and enactors), I have turned more people onto the UB by suggesting the APP more than any of the books I've given away over the years. And that APP is totally free and available to be read on smartphones and tablets. Even more people browse the entire book for free at various sites online than buy it nowadays.. Again - whether it not they make the jump to becoming contemplations and enactors is another issue that really cannot be measured.

 

Yet.

 

In the end, the only consistent way I have found to encourage people to make the step from just reading to contemplating and enacting is by personal example.

 

And that has far less to do with how many people buy it and rank the book high on Amazon's bestsellers list.

Edited by Absonite
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The number of sales means next to nothing these days.

 

The number of people reading, contemplating, and enacting (living according to the essence of the UB teachings) is all that matters. And that number is NOT directly dependent upon sales of the book, as it was even as little as 10 years ago.

 

Just focussing on readers (I cannot speak for contemplating and enactors), I have turned more people onto the UB by suggesting the APP more than any of the books I've given away over the years. And that APP is totally free and available to be read on smartphones and tablets. Even more people browse the entire book for free at various sites online than buy it nowadays.. Again - whether it not they make the jump to becoming contemplations and enactors is another issue that really cannot be measured.

 

Yet.

 

In the end, the only consistent way I have found to encourage people to make the step from just reading to contemplating and enacting is by personal example.

 

And that has far less to do with how many people buy it and rank the book high on Amazon's bestsellers list.

 

Very well said Absonite. Book sales of every kind have gone down, especially where the book is available free digitally. Book stores are closing everywhere, the whole print industry is succumbing to the digital age. But interest in the text is still soaring, indicated by ever rising search engine numbers.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very well said Absonite. Book sales of every kind have gone down, especially where the book is available free digitally. Book stores are closing everywhere, the whole print industry is succumbing to the digital age. But interest in the text is still soaring, indicated by ever rising search engine numbers.

 

Where does the Urantia Book rank in terms of ebook sales?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me that exponentially more people today than ever before know about the UB - thanks to the Internet. Our conversations here and elsewhere are ONLINE, folks. They show up in searches. People interested in a spiritual perspective stumble across what we share as UB Readers with each other, and I don't doubt that such conversations (coupled with Google, etc...) encourage many to check into it all further once they obtain a sample.

 

The teachings of the UB are increasingly unobscure with each day.

 

And there is a big responsibility on all our parts to ensure that what we do put in here on the Internet reflects the quality of character one successfully develops from pursuing diligent study - as well as earnest praxis.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me that exponentially more people today than ever before know about the UB - thanks to the Internet. Our conversations here and elsewhere are ONLINE, folks. They show up in searches. People interested in a spiritual perspective stumble across what we share as UB Readers with each other, and I don't doubt that such conversations (coupled with Google, etc...) encourage many to check into it all further once they obtain a sample.

 

If average people mostly learn about the Urantia Book from internet forums, we're all doomed. :)

Edited by Howard509

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If average people mostly learn about the Urantia Book from internet forums, we're all doomed. :)

 

Please try not to fulfill that prophesy. :)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And there is a big responsibility on all our parts to ensure that what we do put in here on the Internet reflects the quality of character one successfully develops from pursuing diligent study - as well as earnest praxis.

 

Which is precisely why I sometimes spend hours developing a post. After all, the revelators admit to using over one thousand outstanding human ideas as a basis for the Papers. Undoubtedly, higher minds than ours pay attention to our ideas, even those presented here, so best to always put forward the best you can muster.

 

0:12.12 Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which is precisely why I sometimes spend hours developing a post.

 

Could that time be better used in other ways of being of services to others? Internet forums are mostly for preaching to the converted. I wonder if our time would be better used out in the real world, actually doing things to help people, or perhaps even at home, making life easier for the people you love by doing something as simple as washing the dishes or cleaning the bathroom when you'd rather be doing other things like posting on internet forums. I am not saying you don't do these things, but pretty much anyone who reads that post who doesn't already believe in the Urantia Book would think it's a little silly.

Edited by Howard509

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Conversation here can be a kind of service to others.

 

Like it or not, the Internet is part of the "real world". Many people are assisted, encouraged, motivated, etc... by the information and conversations that happen online.

 

If the implication is that people should not be assisting, encouraging, motivating, etc... - according to whatever degree of scholarship and expression they choose - then I disagree.

 

 

People who conclude that their efforts would be better spent offline assisting others certainly can do what they are urged to do ... and just as they don't have to devote more time online just because others do, others don't have to spend more time offline just because some people do.

 

 

This is NOT about trying to judge individuals' online contributions compared to their offline contributions.

Edited by Absonite
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Howard, you are welcome to follow your own path and have your own opinion. But allow me a different opinion if you will. Those who do not teach do not learn as the Revelation clearly states and one who does not teach does not progress. Teaching is critical to learning. Your critical dismissal of the teachers here, the format provided here, and the audience itself is misplaced and judgemental and incorrect....all. You can only determine what's best for you Brother and not any other. We cannot control who approaches the Revelation or how or why but the WWW has provided a new form of distribution of the text AND connectivity between students around the globe in powerful and effective ways unknowable or seeable by us in this life. Let us remember that The Most Highs rule in the kingdom of mortals and the angels and midwayers attend to us relentlessly and effectively. Why such despair? And why such demeaning sexism? Many who post here are homemakers and parents and children of the elderly but are also well trained and engaged professionals and community activists. Is laundry and cleaning the limit of service or importance or value or impact? I find your whole post demeaning and without merit for any worthy consideration. Just my opinion.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Howard I agree that posting on online forums is not "personal" hence it's not the service that Jesus instructed his followers to perform. This forum and others is more life a ink blot test. Where everyone reads a section in the book and shares what they see. The Spirit of Truth is activated by personal social service not writing on forums. But I post a lot online so I am hardly walking the 2nd mile myself.

 

The measure that we have to go out to people with our message is a reflection of our own failure to live the gospel.

Edited by -Scott-
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Could that time be better used in other ways of being of services to others? Internet forums are mostly for preaching to the converted. I wonder if our time would be better used out in the real world, actually doing things to help people, or perhaps even at home, making life easier for the people you love by doing something as simple as washing the dishes or cleaning the bathroom when you'd rather be doing other things like posting on internet forums. I am not saying you don't do these things, but pretty much anyone who reads that post who doesn't already believe in the Urantia Book would think it's a little silly.

 

How do you know the way I spend the other 18-20 hours of my day, Howard? Are you qualified to determine what the best use of my time is? I do what is in my heart to do, and I'm very sorry to inform you that you, nor anyone else for that matter, are qualified to be my judge. And as for your complaint about me being silly, I think this quote applies:

 

102:7.6 It requires no great depth of intellect to pick flaws, ask questions, or raise objections. But it does require brilliance of mind to answer these questions and solve these difficulties; faith certainty is the greatest technique for dealing with all such superficial contentions.

 

I have certain faith that I'm doing God's will. I guess you'll just have to prove that I'm not. Good luck with that.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Scott, let me (finally) disagree with you as well. Uplifting the 5th Epochal Revelation gifted to us here and now and personally and globally, makes the learning and the teaching and the sharing of its contents, meanings, applications, and results SERVICE. Loving, selfless, outward focused, tender, kind service. And those who make the time and commitment to teach me are REVERED by me and loved by me for their endless service. Do you not think those who have committed a decade of their life to make this site a reality a service to Father and His children?? How many souls have found a nurturing encouragement here? How much time do you think Bro Rick spends a day on OPAD and the TB&G, etc.? Every day for year after year. What an example of supreme devotion to others and the work of our Father. He is hardly alone. Does anyone know how many souls work how many hours every day of every year to bring the Revelation to its audience and do so sweetly, fraternally, expertly, with scholarship and comraderie?? I've been around awhile in many venues, including many UB venues and groups and efforts. This site and these folk are a bright beacon of light on a high hill. We cannot judge what path and task Father puts before any other. We each have our own way and contribution. I'm but a grunt in the foxhole or the man with shovel standing in ditch. We are called to build the Garden and the Temple to come. I wonder if we understand the foundation building and canal digging and work to come so we can see the work at hand to do now?? There are those who give books, or host study groups, or organize conferences, or write articles, or make beautiful artwork, or...or....or....or.....or....or. It is unbecoming to any believer to criticize another for their what, when, how, why, who of personal love and service. Pardon my irritation as it is certainly not triggered by you or anything you've said but I do disagree that there is not relationship here or service here as Jesus would describe it. Poppycock. But I do love your ink blot metaphor....for it is by this triangulation of perspective that I have learned far more here in the past year than decades before. Love you dude....hope you take this as friendly disagreement for it is nothing more than that. ;)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a valid question for each person to ask of themself whether the way they spend their time is best or not, it's hard not to do this day in day out, not just on the UB topic but on any given topic. I personally don't participate in forums that much because I think there are more fruitful ways for me to spend my time but that's just me. I'm glad others are avid posters and participants on forums like this, it's one of the few ways to get a sense of broader community among readers.

 

On the original point though of the thread, UB sales, and more generally, indicators of its popularity or obscurity, I think amazon sales rank can be one measure but there are deficiencies with that because of all the other avenues of obtaining the book (many for free).

 

There are some other interesting public indicators out there like using Google Trends in various ways and using the published page view statistics that wikipedia has.

 

For instance, take the word "dianetics". Like the word "urantia", it has only one specific meaning and context, is also for a book, and is also associated as a key indentifying word of a new religious movement. I find it interesting that for all the advertising, proselytizing, and very public pushing of the book by a dedicated well-funded organization with millions (billions?) of dollars, under the radar "urantia" quietly and steadily has become more and more searched out on google. For a long time it has been searched more than "dianetics" worldwide but a lot of this could be attributed to the strength of interest in Spanish speaking countries for the Urantia Book, most likely due to the JJ Benítez books:

 

http://www.google.co...ianetics&cmpt=q

 

What's pretty interesting is that even just in the U.S., where "dianetics" should be stronger, now for the past 4 years more people on the internet have searched for "urantia" than "dianetics" on google:

 

http://www.google.co...09%2049m&cmpt=q

 

Google Trends shows an overall gradually lowering volume of searches for both but you can also see that trend with other words like "Koran". Who knows, maybe it's from people shifting toward Bing, Facebook or other places for searches.

 

Meanwhile people looking for info go to wikipedia, these are the number of page views for the Urantia article each January for the past few years (to show the general year-over-year trend) --

 

Jan 2010: ~8,360 page views (2 days of data missing, so normalized it to be for 31-month day)

Jan 2011: 11,049

Jan 2012: 13,399

Jan 2013: 16,257

 

Doubling in 4 years seems to be heading in a good direction. :)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a valid question for each person to ask of themself whether the way they spend their time is best or not, it's hard not to do this day in day out, not just on the UB topic but on any given topic. I personally don't participate in forums that much because I think there are more fruitful ways for me to spend my time but that's just me. I'm glad others are avid posters and participants on forums like this, it's one of the few ways to get a sense of broader community among readers.

 

On the original point though of the thread, UB sales, and more generally, indicators of its popularity or obscurity, I think amazon sales rank can be one measure but there are deficiencies with that because of all the other avenues of obtaining the book (many for free).

 

There are some other interesting public indicators out there like using Google Trends in various ways and using the published page view statistics that wikipedia has.

 

For instance, take the word "dianetics". Like the word "urantia", it has only one specific meaning and context, is also for a book, and is also associated as a key indentifying word of a new religious movement. I find it interesting that for all the advertising, proselytizing, and very public pushing of the book by a dedicated well-funded organization with millions (billions?) of dollars, under the radar "urantia" quietly and steadily has become more and more searched out on google. For a long time it has been searched more than "dianetics" worldwide but a lot of this could be attributed to the strength of interest in Spanish speaking countries for the Urantia Book, most likely due to the JJ Benítez books:

 

http://www.google.co...ianetics&cmpt=q

 

What's pretty interesting is that even just in the U.S., where "dianetics" should be stronger, now for the past 4 years more people on the internet have searched for "urantia" than "dianetics" on google:

 

http://www.google.co...09%2049m&cmpt=q

 

Google Trends shows an overall gradually lowering volume of searches for both but you can also see that trend with other words like "Koran". Who knows, maybe it's from people shifting toward Bing, Facebook or other places for searches.

 

Meanwhile people looking for info go to wikipedia, these are the number of page views for the Urantia article each January for the past few years (to show the general year-over-year trend) --

 

Jan 2010: ~8,360 page views (2 days of data missing, so normalized it to be for 31-month day)

Jan 2011: 11,049

Jan 2012: 13,399

Jan 2013: 16,257

 

Doubling in 4 years seems to be heading in a good direction. :)

 

Fascinating, thanks for breaking silence. Google Trends, what a great service, as is Wikipedia.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Scott, let me (finally) disagree with you as well. Uplifting the 5th Epochal Revelation gifted to us here and now and personally and globally, makes the learning and the teaching and the sharing of its contents, meanings, applications, and results SERVICE. Loving, selfless, outward focused, tender, kind service. And those who make the time and commitment to teach me are REVERED by me and loved by me for their endless service. Do you not think those who have committed a decade of their life to make this site a reality a service to Father and His children?? How many souls have found a nurturing encouragement here? How much time do you think Bro Rick spends a day on OPAD and the TB&G, etc.? Every day for year after year. What an example of supreme devotion to others and the work of our Father. He is hardly alone. Does anyone know how many souls work how many hours every day of every year to bring the Revelation to its audience and do so sweetly, fraternally, expertly, with scholarship and comraderie?? I've been around awhile in many venues, including many UB venues and groups and efforts. This site and these folk are a bright beacon of light on a high hill. We cannot judge what path and task Father puts before any other. We each have our own way and contribution. I'm but a grunt in the foxhole or the man with shovel standing in ditch. We are called to build the Garden and the Temple to come. I wonder if we understand the foundation building and canal digging and work to come so we can see the work at hand to do now?? There are those who give books, or host study groups, or organize conferences, or write articles, or make beautiful artwork, or...or....or....or.....or....or. It is unbecoming to any believer to criticize another for their what, when, how, why, who of personal love and service. Pardon my irritation as it is certainly not triggered by you or anything you've said but I do disagree that there is not relationship here or service here as Jesus would describe it. Poppycock. But I do love your ink blot metaphor....for it is by this triangulation of perspective that I have learned far more here in the past year than decades before. Love you dude....hope you take this as friendly disagreement for it is nothing more than that. ;)

 

I am just saying there is a difference between service, and personal service. I do not not see posting on these forums as personal service which IMO is essential. I agree that participating in these forums is still doing some sort of service and that doing something of service is usefull. I just don't think its possible to perform personal loving service over the interwebs. Its nothing personal against anyone, its just how I feel about the internet in general, its a great tool but to a degree it seperates us personally. I think I speak for most people in saying it would be great to actually go out and take these concepts and use them in real life situations instead of just posting them on the interweb. Which I am sure most people here are doing anyways. No offence taken :). I think me and you are both grunts here haha. I just hope one day I can take my shovel and use it to effect people in the world of the living haha.

Edited by -Scott-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-Scott- do you realize that admitting you don't think it's possible to perform personal loving service over the "interwebs" reflects you and whatever you share here?

 

You've just affirmed that you feel separated from us personally, and affirmed that whatever you share here (although something of a service) is not done to offer personal loving service, because you think doing so (offering personal loving service) here is impossible - for you.

 

Yes.

For you.

 

Regardless of why you might think that no one else can do it just because you cannot do it - just focusing on the fact of what you think is not possible with regard to performing personal loving right here and now - why you are here engaging all these conversations?

 

 

Very seriously:

 

 

Since you realize this for yourself -

 

Since you cannot fathom how it's possible to perform personal loving service here online - and

 

Since you know that we're all supposed to be striving to do that (performing personal loving service to the best of our abilities in whatever way(s) we can) -

 

 

- then why exactly are you not totally devoting your efforts in the realm (offline) where you feel that you actually can fulfill the mandate of offering personally loving service to others?

Edited by Absonite
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
-Scott- do you realize that admitting you don't think it's possible to perform personal loving service over the "interwebs" reflects you and whatever you share here?

 

You've just affirmed that you feel separated from us personally, and affirmed that whatever you share here (although something of a service) is not done to offer personal loving service, because you think doing so (offering personal loving service) here is impossible - for you.

 

Yes.

For you.

 

Regardless of why you might think that no one else can do it just because you cannot do it - just focusing on the fact of what you think is not possible with regard to performing personal loving right here and now - why you are here engaging all these conversations?

 

 

Very seriously:

 

 

Since you realize this for yourself -

 

Since you cannot fathom how it's possible to perform personal loving service here online - and

 

Since you know that we're all supposed to be striving to do that (performing personal loving service to the best of our abilities in whatever way(s) we can) -

 

 

- then why exactly are you not totally devoting your efforts in the realm (offline) where you feel that you actually can fulfill the mandate of offering personally loving service to others?

 

Yes it does reflect who I am as well. I am not devoting all my efforts offline to offering loving service to people because I am not a very loving person. Nor do I have self-mastery. I care about people but I don't really love anyone. I would love to be a second miler and I cannot wait until the day I am.

Edited by -Scott-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so now wait a minute here...

 

 

You're not a very loving person??

What??

 

 

 

How can you not be a loving person?!

 

 

 

Since you are a person, and

 

Since you care about people, and thus desire (in any way) to enact that care for the good of those people - and

 

Since the UB explicitly tells us that love is the desire to do good to others (56:10.21)

 

 

- then you are loving (you love) those people.

 

 

 

Therefore, you are a loving person.

Right?

Edited by Absonite

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so now wait a minute here...

 

 

You're not a very loving person??

What??

 

 

 

How can you not be a loving person?!

 

 

 

Since you are a person, and

 

Since you care about people, and thus desire (in any way) to enact that care for the good of those people - and

 

Since the UB explicitly tells us that love is the desire to do good to others (56:10.21)

 

 

- then you are loving (you love) those people.

 

 

 

Therefore, you are a loving person.

Right?

 

I don't think what we commonly associate with love is even close to love at all, and yes the u.b calls it a desire but it must be a whole-hearted desire. There is a huuuge difference IMO. The adjuster resides in the heart of our being, which is essentially our the core of our mind. IMO this entire mindal core needs to be utilized in order to make any whole-hearted descisions. IMO when we become whole-hearted beings Sin becomes a real possibility and so does love.

 

At times I am almost pained to be compelled to portray the divine affection of the heavenly Father for his universe children by the employment of the human word symbol love. This term, even though it does connote man's highest concept of the mortal relations of respect and devotion, is so frequently designative of so much of human relationship that is wholly ignoble and utterly unfit to be known by any word which is also used to indicate the matchless affection of the living God for his universe creatures! How unfortunate that I cannot make use of some supernal and exclusive term which would convey to the mind of man the true nature and exquisitely beautiful significance of the divine affection of the Paradise Father. ~ The Urantia Book, (2:5.10)

 

 

IMO Jesus mission was and still is to lead mankind to love, and IMO the full experience of recongition,realization, appreaciation and love is whole-hearted.

 

 

(1675.4) 149:6.3 “The ‘fear of the Lord’ has had different meanings in the successive ages, coming up from fear, through anguish and dread, to awe and reverence. And now from reverence I would lead you up, through recognition, realization, and appreciation, to love. When man recognizes only the works of God, he is led to fear the Supreme; but when man begins to understand and experience the personality and character of the living God, he is led increasingly to love such a good and perfect, universal and eternal Father. And it is just this changing of the relation of man to God that constitutes the mission of the Son of Man on earth.

 

If I had to gauge how I treat human beings I would probably place myself on the level of the brotherly love. IMO the full experience of all levels is akin to whole-heartedness. IMO we are just partially devoted to man, if we don't go all the way to the top and IMO partial devotion is not love.

 

Let me now teach you concerning the differing levels of meaning attached to the interpretation of this rule of living, this admonition to ‘do to others that which you desire others to do to you’:

 

 

 

 

(1650.5)
147:4.4
“1. The level of the flesh. Such a purely selfish and lustful interpretation would be well exemplified by the supposition of your question.

(1650.6)
147:4.5
“2. The level of the feelings. This plane is one level higher than that of the flesh and implies that sympathy and pity would enhance one’s interpretation of this rule of living.

(1650.7)
147:4.6
“3. The level of mind. Now come into action the reason of mind and the intelligence of experience. Good judgment dictates that such a rule of living should be interpreted in consonance with the highest idealism embodied in the nobility of profound self-respect.

(1651.1)
147:4.7
“4. The level of brotherly love. Still higher is discovered the level of unselfish devotion to the welfare of one’s fellows. On this higher plane of wholehearted social service growing out of the consciousness of the fatherhood of God and the consequent recognition of the brotherhood of man, there is discovered a new and far more beautiful interpretation of this basic rule of life.

(1651.2)
147:4.8
“5. The moral level. And then when you attain true philosophic levels of interpretation, when you have real insight into the rightness and wrongness of things, when you perceive the eternal fitness of human relationships, you will begin to view such a problem of interpretation as you would imagine a high-minded, idealistic, wise, and impartial third person would so view and interpret such an injunction as applied to your personal problems of adjustment to your life situations.

(1651.3)
147:4.9
“6. The spiritual level. And then last, but greatest of all, we attain the level of spirit insight and spiritual interpretation which impels us to recognize in this rule of life the divine command to treat all men as we conceive God would treat them. That is the universe ideal of human relationships. And this is your attitude toward all such problems when your supreme desire is ever to do the Father’s will. I would, therefore, that you should do to all men that which you know I would do to them in like circumstances.”

 

117:6.10 All true love is from God, and man receives the divine affection as he himself bestows this love upon his fellows. Love is dynamic. It can never be captured; it is alive, free, thrilling, and always moving. Man can never take the love of the Father and imprison it within his heart. The Father’s love can become real to mortal man only by passing through that man’s personality as he in turn bestows this love upon his fellows. The great circuit of love is from the Father, through sons to brothers, and hence to the Supreme. The love of the Father appears in the mortal personality by the ministry of the indwelling Adjuster. Such a God-knowing son reveals this love to his universe brethren, and this fraternal affection is the essence of the love of the Supreme.

 

I don't personally believe that any human being can truly receive the Fathers Love with half-hearted devotion. IMO we have to get our self up to a certain point where gods ministry and love can directly flow through us. IMO love that comes from a full heart is the love flowing through the adjuster, and IMO very few people are actually experiencing love. Each one of those levels also appear to be directly related to each cosmic intuition. Obviously its easy to see that with the 2nd intuition being "moral discrimination" and the 3rd being "spirit insight".

 

Mortal man cannot possibly know the infinitude of the heavenly Father. Finite mind cannot think through such an absolute truth or fact. But this same finite human being can actually feel--literally experience--the full and undiminished impact of such an infinite Father's LOVE. Such a love can be truly experienced, albeit while quality of experience is unlimited, quantity of such an experience is strictly limited by the human capacity for spiritual receptivity and by the associated capacity to love the Father in return. ~ The Urantia Book, (3:4.6)

 

The authors state only a god-knowing man/women can love. This just re-iterates that all love gods from god. It does not come from mushy feelings, or warm fuzzies, even though those are included in the experience of love. I am not a god-knowing person.

 

Only a God-knowing individual can love another person as he loves himself. ~ The Urantia Book, (16:9.8)

 

And finally here the authors just flat out state that there are not many human beings going beyond convention and duty, and not really living and not really loving.

 

 

195:10.5.In winning souls for the Master, it is not the first mile of compulsion, duty, or convention that will transform man and his world, but rather the second mile of free service and liberty-loving devotion that betokens the Jesusonian reaching forth to grasp his brother in love and sweep him on under spiritual guidance toward the higher and divine goal of mortal existence. Christianity even now willingly goes the first mile, but mankind languishes and stumbles along in moral darkness because there are so few genuine second-milers—so few professed followers of Jesus who really live and love as he taught his disciples to live and love and serve.

 

 

1:6.5.

Some degree of moral affinity and spiritual harmony is essential to friendship between two persons; a loving personality can hardly reveal himself to a loveless person. Even to approach the knowing of a divine personality, all of man's personality endowments must be wholly consecrated to the effort; halfhearted, partial devotion will be unavailing.

 

- (154:4.6) This world has never seriously tried to carry out the teachings of Jesus on a large scale, notwithstanding that halfhearted attempts have often been made to follow the doctrines of so-called Christianity.

 

So yes I have a desire to do good to others, but it is a half-hearted desire.

Edited by -Scott-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

p1097:03 You cannot truly love your fellows by a mere act of the will. Love is only born of thoroughgoing understanding of your neighbor's motives and sentiments. It is not so important to love all men today as it is that each day you learn to love one more human being. If each day or each week you achieve an understanding of one more of your fellows, and if this is the limit of your ability, then you are certainly socializing and truly spiritualizing your personality. Love is infectious, and when human devotion is intelligent and wise, love is more catching than hate. But only genuine and unselfish love is truly contagious. If each mortal could only become a focus of dynamic affection, this benign virus of love would soon pervade the sentimental emotion-stream of humanity to such an extent that all civilization would be encompassed by love, and that would be the realization of the brotherhood of man.

 

We progress one imperfection at a time. We learn to love one person at a time by overcoming selfish, thus isolating, attitudes toward others. We move forward by allowing spirit dominance over one deficiency at a time and by socializing our personality, learning to overcome frictions, feelings of animosity, anger, resentment and all the other spirit poisons which get in the way of spirit dominance of loving relationships, which is the province of the Spirit of Truth.

 

p1950 Love, unselfishness, must undergo a constant and living readaptative interpretation of relationships in accordance with the leading of the Spirit of Truth.

 

It's the desire that must be wholehearted. God will work with desire if you allow him, one opportunity at a time, one relationship at a time, one decision at a time.

 

100:2.1 Spiritual progress is predicated on intellectual recognition of spiritual poverty coupled with the self-consciousness of perfection-hunger, the desire to know God and be like him, the wholehearted purpose to do the will of the Father in heaven.

 

It's all about socialization of the personality; that is the purpose of the ascension career. There will never be a point when you are suddenly zapped with a permanent wholehearted love for all of mankind. You must earn that, one step at a time by eliminating your imperfections of love with a wholehearted dedication of desire and purpose. Feelings of wholehearted love may come in waves of rapture, but true goodness, which is part of love, is not a feeling; true goodness is unconscious. And if you're selflessly loving, you should not be conscious of yourself either.

 

100:2.1 Spiritual development is determined by capacity therefor and is directly proportional to the elimination of the selfish qualities of love.

 

We are told to take the self out of love, which makes love a service, a desire to give back, a purer purpose for living. God is continuously giving his love to us even though we may be unaware of it. But it's not possible to take so much without developing the desire to give back. If the desire is lacking, the soul is lacking; desire is the heart of the soul calling you forward.

 

5:5.14 A human mind discerning right and wrong and possessing the capacity to worship God, in union with a divine Adjuster, is all that is required in that mortal to initiate and foster the production of his immortal soul of survival qualities if such a spirit-endowed individual seeks God and sincerely desires to become like him, honestly elects to do the will of the Father in heaven.

 

God works with our desire for righteousness and coaxes us closer and closer to divinity of desire and perfection of purpose. If you sit around waiting for a blinding light of righteousness to come, then you'll be like the steward who buried the money and had it taken away; given instead, to the ones who desired and tried to give back to the best of their abilities.

 

26:4.13 When, through and by the ministry of all the helper hosts of the universal scheme of survival, you are finally deposited on the receiving world of Havona, you arrive with only one sort of perfection - perfection of purpose. Your purpose has been thoroughly proved; your faith has been tested. You are known to be disappointment proof. Not even the failure to discern the Universal Father can shake the faith or seriously disturb the trust of an ascendant mortal who has passed through the experience that all must traverse in order to attain the perfect spheres of Havona. By the time you reach Havona, your sincerity has become sublime. Perfection of purpose and divinity of desire, with steadfastness of faith, have secured your entrance to the settled abodes of eternity; your deliverance from the uncertainties of time is full and complete; and now must you come face to face with the problems of Havona and the immensities of Paradise, to meet which you have so long been in training in the experiential epochs of time on the world schools of space.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, -Scott- the Revelator bemoans the shortcomings of language about this. Meaning cannot be put in a box. And words are not boxes. Instead of being boxes, words simply are arrows that point at - that indicate, reference, etc... - meanings. The Revelator knows that, and longs to be able to do what cannot be done (otherwise the Revelator simply would have done it!) using language.

 

And we've been given a very clear explanation that simply points at the meaning for the word love: love is the desire to do good to others ((56:10.21) Notice that the phrase whole hearted is not part of that explicit explanation. When one desires to do good to others, one is loving. That's what love simply is. If you desire to do good to others, then you are loving. That's the basic bottom line. Period.

 

Since you know that you're on the level of brotherly love, then that means that you do indeed know that you are a loving person on that level. Loving as a brother means that you desire to do good to others as a brother.

 

 

I am not a god-knowing person.

 

 

That's a pile of horsepucky, -Scott-

You already know God - and you already know where God exactly and intimately is - with specific reference to your Fragment.

 

And I'm not making any sort of rarefied use of the word know here. Getting what I simply mean does not require gyrating through any sort of semantic gymnastics while hanging up on the rings of esoteric and arcane metaphysics. This is just simple basic affirmation of what you have learned from basically reading the UB, and what you are currently experiencing as a personality with a Fragment of God.

 

 

The quote from (195:10.5) clearly says that going the second mile is grasping your brother in love and sweeping him on under spiritual guidance toward the higher and divine goal of mortal existence. You have already affirmed that you are on the level of brotherly love. Therefore, you are already walking the "second mile".

 

Whether or not anyone else chooses to run with popular notions about love - whether or not anyone else goes beyond convention and duty - and whether or not you have only a half-hearted desire does not matter because of what you have affirmed yourself as already doing and what the Revelator has said such doing means (loving) by simple definition.

 

 

You are a person. You know God. You already are engaged in performing personally loving service - because you already desire (as caring) to do good to others as a brother. Therefore you already are a "second-miler".

 

And you can continue progressively working with your Fragment to deepen that desire to whole heartedness, thereby deepening the personally loving service.

Edited by Absonite
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...