Jump to content
Urantia Book Forum, conversations with other readers
-Scott-

A Purely Spiritual Experience VS Religous Experience

Recommended Posts

I have noticed a bit of a pattern popping up in the u.b with regards to having just a purely spiritual experience vs a religous experience. It seems that it is possible for most human beings to have some sort of spiritual experience or experience their spiritual spiritual consciousness, but this experience alone is not really religous IMO. The u.b seems to indicate that a religous experience is spiritual but the major addition to it being spiritual is it being personal. I think many of the new-age mystic religions out there are just basically the believer attempting to have some profound spiritual experience. IMO this is not religious because its not personal, and it can be potentially evil because its often selfish. People who sit around wishing to experience some transcendent consciousness IMO just for the sake of having this experience are being selfish because they are not really doing it for anyone but themselves. Of coarse saying all of this, I have to admit with some humility that I don't believe I have personal religious experiences very often (if at all). So part of writing this is to challenge myself to go higher and devote myself more earnestly to a personal faith that Jesus had. So I am not just some island universe of spirituality cut off from the rest of world.

 

Anyways here are some quotes about purely spiritual experiences IMO.

 

87.4) 196:0.4 In the Master’s life on Urantia, this and all other worlds of the local creation discover a new and higher type of religion, religion based on personal spiritual relations with the Universal Father and wholly validated by the supreme authority of genuine personal experience. This living faith of Jesus was more than an intellectual reflection, and it was not a mystic meditation.

 

Interesting that they seem to acknowledge that these mystic meditations can even happen. IMO a "mystic meditation" is nothing more than nonpersonal spiritual meditation.

 

(1137.4) 103:6.14 When the philosophy of man leans heavily toward the world of matter, it becomes rationalistic or naturalistic. When philosophy inclines particularly toward the spiritual level, it becomes idealistic or even mystical.

 

 

 

 

91:2.5.When religion is divested of a personal God, its prayers translate to the levels of theology and philosophy. When the highest God concept of a religion is that of an impersonal Deity, such as in pantheistic idealism, although affording the basis for certain forms of mystic communion, it proves fatal to the potency of true prayer, which always stands for man's communion with a personal and superior being.

 

91:7.1.Mysticism, as the technique of the cultivation of the consciousness of the presence of God, is altogether praiseworthy, but when such practices lead to social isolation and culminate in religious fanaticism, they are all but reprehensible. Altogether too frequently that which the overwrought mystic evaluates as divine inspiration is the uprisings of his own deep mind. The contact of the mortal mind with its indwelling Adjuster, while often favored by devoted meditation, is more frequently facilitated by wholehearted and loving service in unselfish ministry to one's fellow creatures

 

1:7.2.The great religious teachers and the prophets of past ages were not extreme mystics. They were God-knowing men and women who best served their God by unselfish ministry to their fellow mortals. Jesus often took his apostles away by themselves for short periods to engage in meditation and prayer, but for the most part he kept them in service-contact with the multitudes. The soul of man requires spiritual exercise as well as spiritual nourishment.

 

 

8 - (100:5.10) The more healthful attitude of spiritual meditation is to be found in reflective worship and in the prayer of thanksgiving. The direct communion with one's Thought Adjuster, such as occurred in the later years of Jesus' life in the flesh, should not be confused with these so-called mystical experiences. The factors which contribute to the initiation of mystic communion are indicative of the danger of such psychic states. The mystic status is favored by such things as: physical fatigue, fasting, psychic dissociation, profound aesthetic experiences, vivid sex impulses, fear, anxiety, rage, and wild dancing. Much of the material arising as a result of such preliminary preparation has its origin in the subconscious mind.

 

9 - (100:5.11) However favorable may have been the conditions for mystic phenomena, it should be clearly understood that Jesus of Nazareth never resorted to such methods for communion with the Paradise Father. Jesus had no subconscious delusions or superconscious illusions.

Edited by -Scott-
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have noticed a bit of a pattern popping up in the u.b with regards to having just a purely spiritual experience vs a religous experience. It seems that it is possible for most human beings to have some sort of spiritual experience or experience their spiritual spiritual consciousness, but this experience alone is not really religous IMO. The u.b seems to indicate that a religous experience is spiritual but the major addition to it being spiritual is it being personal. I think many of the new-age mystic religions out there are just basically the believer attempting to have some profound spiritual experience. IMO this is not religious because its not personal, and it can be potentially evil because its often selfish. People who sit around wishing to experience some transcendent consciousness IMO just for the sake of having this experience are being selfish because they are not really doing it for anyone but themselves. Of coarse saying all of this, I have to admit with some humility that I don't believe I have personal religious experiences very often (if at all). So part of writing this is to challenge myself to go higher and devote myself more earnestly to a personal faith that Jesus had. So I am not just some island universe of spirituality cut off from the rest of world.

 

 

Hat's off to your thinking around this, best of luck in that challenge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Rick I get the impression that I am in good company though. IMO there are probably very few mortals who are experiencing true religion.

Edited by -Scott-
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Rick I get the impression that I am in good company though. IMO there are probably very few mortals who are experiencing true religion.

 

Indeed, Scott! In fact you are probably part of redefining and upgrading the term: true religion. People never thought to define what religion truly is before now. The authors coined new phrases that we might latch onto, personal religious experience, and genuine religious experience. In total those two phrases appear in 71 paragraphs. The words "religious experience" are directly coupled in 91 paragraphs, two are Paper or Section titles, both are from a Melchizedek:

 

PAPER 103 - THE REALITY OF RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE

PAPER 101 6. PROGRESSIVE RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE

 

PS. You've tapped into a great new well of fresh revelatory water! If it might help shed light, there is an older thread about this topic here: http://urantia.invis...us-experiences/

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Rick thanks for the links. Indeed this is a topic that probably many study groups are asking, as I see this thread has talked about. Personality is a bit of a tricky thing IMO, what humans call personality is IMO just the self, or the tempermant of the self. To actually get to that level where we are experiencing our own personality seems to take some serious effort on our part. Of coarse, luckily we have Jesus to help us with that, both in the urantia book and within ourselves. :)

Edited by -Scott-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Religious experience and/or spiritual experience, whatever you want to call it, is not the experience of one's own personality; it's experience of God as an other-than-self person living within you. It's a personal experience of the relationship between yourself and the living God, between your personality and God's personality, one being imperfect, the other perfect. It's a all about the relationship.

 

 

 

16:9.4 Human self-consciousness implies the recognition of the reality of selves other than the conscious self and further implies that such awareness is mutual; that the self is known as it knows. This is shown in a purely human manner in man's social life. But you cannot become so absolutely certain of a fellow being's reality as you can of the reality of the presence of God that lives within you.

 

101:0.1 Religion, as a human experience, ranges from the primitive fear slavery of the evolving savage up to the sublime and magnificent faith liberty of those civilized mortals who are superbly conscious of sonship with the eternal God.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Spiritual growth is first an awakening to needs, next a discernment of meanings, and then a discovery of values. "

 

The Urantia Book, (1095.6) 100:2.2

 

I find this to be another confusing issue where within all the redundancy are many terms that are interchanged and have significant intersection as well. I always thought of religion and religious experience as a group thing, an organized event and discipline within creed, dogma, ceremony, symbols, ritual, etc. But not so according to TUB. ALL religious experience and religion is truly and only a personal experience....even when and if it is experienced in a group and/or a church.

 

As to separating religious experience and spiritual experience, I am confused about any such differentiation. Can we have one without the other? Isn't spirit progress the result of religious experience? Or, isn't religious experience the result of spirit progress? Awakening, discernment, discovery = spirit progress = religious experience. And it's all personal or it's not anything but human or mortal experience and won't make the trip off this rock. Looking forward to more from many on this interesting topic. (sorry about bold...can't get it off)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are some good quotes that address the difference and correlation between true religion and socialized religion:

 

p1616:4 143:7.2 True religion is the act of an individual soul in its self-conscious relations with the Creator; organized religion is man's attempt to socialize the worship of individual religionists.

 

 

p1090:10 99:5.1 While religion is exclusively a personal spiritual experience—knowing God as a Father—the corollary of this experience—knowing man as a brother—entails the adjustment of the self to other selves, and that involves the social or group aspect of religious life. Religion is first an inner or personal adjustment, and then it becomes a matter of social service or group adjustment.

 

Jesus didn't come to teach us about socialized religion because socialized religion is meant for man to evolve.

 

146:3.10 The special instruction given by Jesus during their stay at Zebulun had chiefly to do with further discussions of the mutual obligations of the kingdom and embraced teaching designed to make clear the differences between personal religious experience and the amities of social religious obligations. This was one of the few times the Master ever discussed the social aspects of religion. Throughout his entire earth life Jesus gave his followers very little instruction regarding the socialization of religion.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Religious experience and/or spiritual experience, whatever you want to call it, is not the experience of one's own personality; it's experience of God as an other-than-self person living within you. It's a personal experience of the relationship between yourself and the living God, between your personality and God's personality, one being imperfect, the other perfect. It's a all about the relationship.

 

You always seem to twist my words and ignore any truth I am presenting which is not surprising. I never said a religous experience is the experience of ones own personality. I am saying we have to utilize our own personal nature in order to have a personal religous experience.

 

In order to have a personal religous experience you have to be functioning as a personal being. Ie. personality. If someone is functioning completely impersonal they are just going to experience some mystic spiritual state at best. There are many human beings who are functioning just as their animal origin mortal "self". If you don't think so you are extremely nieve. Very few human beings even consider that they have a higher self.

Edited by -Scott-
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scott, maybe you should be more careful about your writing. Here's what you wrote:

 

To actually get to that level where we are experiencing our own personality seems to take some serious effort on our part.

 

A "level where we are experiencing our own personality" are your exact words. Maybe you didn't mean what you wrote, but I don't know that. I only know what you wrote and it doesn't take any twisting to come up with my conclusion.

 

We've been down this road before, you and me. You use words differently than I do so things you say make no sense to me. For instance, you wrote, "There are many human beings who are functioning just as their mortal 'self'." That sentence makes no sense. It needs elaboration. Everyone functions as their mortal self; who else are they going to function as? So obviously, you mean something else by this, but no one has a clue what it is you mean because of the words you chose. By your words, you're implying that the "mortal self" is impersonal, which makes no sense at all. Perhaps what you think you are saying is correct, but no one would know it because you are not communicating it in a language using TUB terms, and when you do use TUB terms, you assign different meanings to them than the rest of us.

 

So . . . . what I'm saying is, "what we've got here is a failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You crack me up Bonita!! :lol: My wife has the same opinion about the way I think and express myself....so I get the "man" thing. It is surprising how we can be so much more complete by man and woman in teamwork, for their collaborations are superior (when in harmony) than whatever each of them might accomplish alone. My wife and I agree on the central issues (from whence all comes) and on the biggest ones (to whence all returns) but we see very little in the same light or angle of perspective and we are each better by depending one on the other for our conjoint perspective which contains both views. I write a lot, professionally, but nothing is read by others until her valiant editing process brings "sense" and structure to my thoughts.....sorry for y'all but I don't have her edit anything here so I can blame my apparent density and confusion on bad writing skills - haha!

 

Some more on the topic...........

 

(69.1) 5:5.6 Religious experience, being essentially spiritual, can never be fully understood by the material mind; hence the function of theology, the psychology of religion. The essential doctrine of the human realization of God creates a paradox in finite comprehension. It is well-nigh impossible for human logic and finite reason to harmonize the concept of divine immanence, God within and a part of every individual, with the idea of God’s transcendence, the divine domination of the universe of universes. These two essential concepts of Deity must be unified in the faith-grasp of the concept of the transcendence of a personal God and in the realization of the indwelling presence of a fragment of that God in order to justify intelligent worship and validate the hope of personality survival. The difficulties and paradoxes of religion are inherent in the fact that the realities of religion are utterly beyond the mortal capacity for intellectual comprehension.

 

(69.2) 5:5.7 Mortal man secures three great satisfactions from religious experience, even in the days of his temporal sojourn on earth:

(69.3)
5:5.8
1.
Intellectually
he acquires the satisfactions of a more unified human consciousness.

(69.4)
5:5.9
2.
Philosophically
he enjoys the substantiation of his ideals of moral values.

(69.5)
5:5.10
3.
Spiritually
he thrives in the experience of divine companionship, in the spiritual satisfactions of true worship.

 

(69.6) 5:5.11 God-consciousness, as it is experienced by an evolving mortal of the realms, must consist of three varying factors, three differential levels of reality realization. There is first the mind consciousness — the comprehension of the idea of God. Then follows the soul consciousness — the realization of the ideal of God. Last, dawns the spirit consciousness — the realization of the spirit reality of God. By the unification of these factors of the divine realization, no matter how incomplete, the mortal personality at all times overspreads all conscious levels with a realization of the personality of God. In those mortals who have attained the Corps of the Finality all this will in time lead to the realization of the supremacy of God and may subsequently eventuate in the realization of the ultimacy of God, some phase of the absonite superconsciousness of the Paradise Father.

 

(69.7) 5:5.12 The experience of God-consciousness remains the same from generation to generation, but with each advancing epoch in human knowledge the philosophic concept and the theologic definitions of God must change. God-knowingness, religious consciousness, is a universe reality, but no matter how valid (real) religious experience is, it must be willing to subject itself to intelligent criticism and reasonable philosophic interpretation; it must not seek to be a thing apart in the totality of human experience.

 

(69.8) 5:5.13 Eternal survival of personality is wholly dependent on the choosing of the mortal mind, whose decisions determine the survival potential of the immortal soul. When the mind believes God and the soul knows God, and when, with the fostering Adjuster, they all desire God, then is survival assured. Limitations of intellect, curtailment of education, deprivation of culture, impoverishment of social status, even inferiority of the human standards of morality resulting from the unfortunate lack of educational, cultural, and social advantages, cannot invalidate the presence of the divine spirit in such unfortunate and humanly handicapped but believing individuals. The indwelling of the Mystery Monitor constitutes the inception and insures the possibility of the potential of growth and survival of the immortal soul.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A "level where we are experiencing our own personality" are your exact words. Maybe you didn't mean what you wrote, but I don't know that. I only know what you wrote and it doesn't take any twisting to come up with my conclusion.

 

We've been down this road before, you and me. You use words differently than I do so things you say make no sense to me. For instance, you wrote, "There are many human beings who are functioning just as their mortal 'self'." That sentence makes no sense. It needs elaboration. Everyone functions as their mortal self; who else are they going to function as? So obviously, you mean something else by this, but no one has a clue what it is you mean because of the words you chose. By your words, you're implying that the "mortal self" is impersonal, which makes no sense at all. Perhaps what you think you are saying is correct, but no one would know it because you are not communicating it in a language using TUB terms, and when you do use TUB terms, you assign different meanings to them than the rest of us.

 

So . . . . what I'm saying is, "what we've got here is a failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach."

 

 

Yes the adjuster makes a copy of our Higher self. This self is what survives. The animal origin self dies. There is a higher and a lower self. Its not rocket science. Our animal origin mindal origin self, which is linked to matter is just scaffolding to our higher self.

 

By your words, you're implying that the "mortal self" is impersonal

 

Read it again I am saying our "animal-origin self" is not personal. Which is our lower self.

Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above

 

Human beings can choose to dwell in the area of their consiousness that directly rests upon the electrochemical mechanism below. Or they can choose to dwell in the area of their consciousness which delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system. Someone can literally have their head in the gutter their whole life if they choose.

 

The following quotes show that a human being can function soley as animal like being if they choose to. Which is a being who is refusing to be personal.

 

193.1) 16:7.2 The selective response of an animal is limited to the motor level of behavior. The supposed insight of the higher animals is on a motor level and usually appears only after the experience of motor trial and error. Man is able to exercise scientific, moral, and spiritual insight prior to all exploration or experimentation.

(193.2) 16:7.3 Only a personality can know what it is doing before it does it; only personalities possess insight in advance of experience. A personality can look before it leaps and can therefore learn from looking as well as from leaping. A nonpersonal animal ordinarily learns only by leaping.

(193.3) 16:7.4 As a result of experience an animal becomes able to examine the different ways of attaining a goal and to select an approach based on accumulated experience. But a personality can also examine the goal itself and pass judgment on its worth-whileness, its value. Intelligence alone can discriminate as to the best means of attaining indiscriminate ends, but a moral being possesses an insight which enables him to discriminate between ends as well as between means. And a moral being in choosing virtue is nonetheless intelligent. He knows what he is doing, why he is doing it, where he is going, and how he will get there.

(193.4) 16:7.5 When man fails to discriminate the ends of his mortal striving, he finds himself functioning on the animal level of existence. He has failed to avail himself of the superior advantages of that material acumen, moral discrimination, and spiritual insight which are an integral part of his cosmic-mind endowment as a personal being.

 

A personality can look before it leaps. But not all human beings are functioning as personal beings (by their own choice). I think this paragraph as well as others in the book can confirm this.

Edited by -Scott-
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest EEB aka AASB-AWSW

You always seem to twist my words and ignore any truth I am presenting which is not surprising. I never said a religous experience is the experience of ones own personality. I am saying we have to utilize our own personal nature in order to have a personal religous experience.

 

In order to have a personal religous experience you have to be functioning as a personal being. Ie. personality. If someone is functioning completely impersonal they are just going to experience some mystic spiritual state at best. There are many human beings who are functioning just as their animal origin mortal "self". If you don't think so you are extremely nieve. Very few human beings even consider that they have a higher self.

 

“A Purely Spiritual Experience VS Religous Experience”

 

Scott, within the last week or so, I have noticed that your literal coherence has appeared to be detached from, a more linier, train of thought which you had seemed to acquire a little over a month ago, when you and I had, on another forum, interaction regarding your opinion, verses your definitive persistence to oppose general posters understanding of UB expressions or interpretations. Nevertheless, this topic, as you titled it above, would seem to be taking on a similar tone.

 

Your last statement, above “Very few human beings even consider that they have a higher self” would seem to imply that you have risen above “human beings” by some resent event(s) which you may have become aware of “self”, “personality”, “own personal nature”, or “you have to be functioning as a personal being.” Much of what you have expressed seems to be incoherent thought or you are just attempting to be abstinent. If I were talking to you face to face, I’d be asking you, what are you smoking? But, rather, what are you attempting to project, in these rather bizarre statements?

 

Have you had some personal experience recently that has changed your otherwise, interesting personable-personality? What’s-up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your last statement, above “Very few human beings even consider that they have a higher self” would seem to imply that you have risen above “human beings” by some resent event(s) which you may have become aware of “self”, “personality”, “own personal nature”, or “you have to be functioning as a personal being.” Much of what you have expressed seems to be incoherent thought or you are just attempting to be abstinent. If I were talking to you face to face, I’d be asking you, what are you smoking? But, rather, what are you attempting to project, in these rather bizarre statements?

 

Have you had some personal experience recently that has changed your otherwise, interesting personable-personality? What’s-up?

 

Its called a urantia study group. We talk about the higher "self" and a lower "self" all the time in a study group who is headed by Chris Halvorson. He is a well respected and sought after teacher of the u.b maybe you have heard of him? He is not some crack-pot giving his own theories. He helps the u.b community decipher what is in the book, if you go onto many of the urantia websites you will notice that he is the one who deciphered most of the etymologies of words in the urantia book. And it is not that I just am taking Chris' word for it I have quotes to back up what I am saying and I can see that I will be needing those for this topic.

 

Also I stated that I don't believe I have had many personal religous experiences so clearly I am not putting myself ahead of other human beings.

Edited by -Scott-
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So...

 

How does the "higher self" translate over to something taught in the UB?

 

What is the exact and concise connection here?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi!

 

Sorry Scott, I did not quite understand what you mean here:

 

Also I stated that I don't believe I have had many personal religous experiences so clearly I am not putting myself ahead of other human beings.

 

You could expand the idea a little more, please?

 

 

Thanks in advance! :)

 

 

Alina

***

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest EEB aka AASB-AWSW

Its called a urantia study group. We talk about the higher "self" and a lower "self" all the time in a study group who is headed by Chris Halvorson. He is a well respected and sought after teacher of the u.b maybe you have heard of him? He is not some crack-pot giving his own theories. He helps the u.b community decipher what is in the book, if you go onto many of the urantia websites you will notice that he is the one who deciphered most of the etymologies of words in the urantia book. And it is not that I just am taking Chris' word for it I have quotes to back up what I am saying and I can see that I will be needing those for this topic.

 

Also I stated that I don't believe I have had many personal religous experiences so clearly I am not putting myself ahead of other human beings.

 

Scott, I'm assuming that you are getting most of your material from Chris Halvorson's web site, "Perfecting Horizons Website"? If so, much of the material is outdated, and if I'm not mistaken, I believe I met Chris at one of the three conferences I attended, his picture is familiar, but I'm not sure because of the smile? Although, I have had a chance to examine some of his work on the Website, specifically "Etymology of Coined Words in the Urantia Book" and I assure you, there is no way that he can stand by those definitions.

 

Not to mention his writing "My Passion" is somewhat self projection in the first person.

 

Have you personally, meet Chris or spoken with him? If so, why would he not wish to partake of this forum, or any other forum for that matter? I have sampled some of his video presentations, and am not that impressed with the format.

 

But I must admit, I now know where you are getting your thoughts from if not verbatim from what I have sampled from this Website? I would suggest that you allow Chris to speak for himself, because I am not sure that you are doing any justice to him by cloning what he does or does not seem to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't get no soul-satisfaction! Identification with soul. Transfer of material self-identity to soul-identity. Used to be a time I experienced more frequent religious experience. More open to 'feelings' - more desireous of learning, more open to receptivity - looked forward to it. Believe ego gets in the way of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you personally, meet Chris or spoken with him? If so, why would he not wish to partake of this forum, or any other forum for that matter? I have sampled some of his video presentations, and am not that impressed with the format.

 

But I must admit, I now know where you are getting your thoughts from if not verbatim from what I have sampled from this Website? I would suggest that you allow Chris to speak for himself, because I am not sure that you are doing any justice to him by cloning what he does or does not seem to know.

 

 

I am in a study session of his every tuesday afternoon, if you haven't notice I invite everyone on this forum to join in almost every week. I did not get this info from his website and his deciphering of the u.b is not outdated. It is well respected in the U.B community. His websites material is meant as a study aid, I am not cloning him. He doesn't have a copyright on the truths of the u.b I am not stealing his material. Also he has a free online study group for you or anyone on this forum to show up to and ask him personally about any of this. He isn't in hiding. Feel free to ask him yourself on our study group every tuesday. Any reader can call in and ask about anything.

 

 

Raymond: I can't get no soul-satisfaction! Identification with soul. Transfer of material self-identity to soul-identity. Used to be a time I experienced more frequent religious experience. More open to 'feelings' - more desireous of learning, more open to receptivity - looked forward to it. Believe ego gets in the way of this.

 

Hahah you got it man!!! I am going to spend some time formulating well thought out responses to this topic instead of doing my usual rush job. But just to start things off I totally agree in regards to human beings having an identity or stated in other words a "self", and I don't think its a stretch for us to consider that we have a better or "higher self"/Identity and a lower self. I will just leave on this quote for now, but I have a lot to say on this topic.

 

(1613.3) 143:5.5 By this time Nalda was sobered, and her better self was awakened. She was not an immoral woman wholly by choice. She had been ruthlessly and unjustly cast aside by her husband and in dire straits had consented to live with a certain Greek as his wife, but without marriage. Nalda now felt greatly ashamed that she had so unthinkingly spoken to Jesus, and she most penitently addressed the Master, saying: “My Lord, I repent of my manner of speaking to you, for I perceive that you are a holy man or maybe a prophet.” And she was just about to seek direct and personal help from the Master when she did what so many have done before and since — dodged the issue of personal salvation by turning to the discussion of theology and philosophy. She quickly turned the conversation from her own needs to a theological controversy. Pointing over to Mount Gerizim, she continued: “Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and yet you would say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship; which, then, is the right place to worship God?”

Edited by -Scott-
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really curious about what folks here have as the seat of identity.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So...

 

How does the "higher self" translate over to something taught in the UB?

 

 

p381:03 In every mortal there exists a dual nature: the inheritance of animal tendencies and the high urge of spirit endowment. During the short life you live on Urantia, these two diverse and opposing urges can seldom be fully reconciled; they can hardly be harmonized and unified; but throughout your lifetime the combined Spirit ever ministers to assist you in subjecting the flesh more and more to the leading of the Spirit.

 

p1134:03 Human happiness is achieved only when the ego desire of the self and the altruistic urge of the higher self (divine spirit) are co-ordinated and reconciled by the unified will of the integrating and supervising personality. The mind of evolutionary man is ever confronted with the intricate problem of refereeing the contest between the natural expansion of emotional impulses and the moral growth of unselfish urges predicated on spiritual insight-genuine religious reflection.

 

The higher self is the "high urge of spirit endowment", the divine spirit, a.k.a. Adjuster guided soul.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Transferring the seat of identity is the evolution of dominance that TUB talks about. We evolve our identity from the material mind to the soul, and by so doing, increase spirit dominance.

 

 

112.5.4 But mortal personality, through its own choosing, possesses the power of transferring its seat of identity from the passing material-intellect system to the higher morontia-soul system which, in association with the Thought Adjuster, is created as a new vehicle for personality manifestation.

 

 

p1229:2 112:2.11 The purpose of cosmic evolution is to achieve unity of personality through increasing spirit dominance, volitional response to the teaching and leading of the Thought Adjuster. Personality, both human and superhuman, is characterized by an inherent cosmic quality which may be called "the evolution of dominance," the expansion of the control of both itself and its environment.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Absonite - I must admit that I truly have a minded material identity. Although I recognize a 'soul-consciousness'; I even consciously requested identity with my soul - but perhaps not spiritually mature enough for this to occur - or translation might occur? Subconsciously perhaps changes have taken place. I don't know for sure. But after service was what I considered cold-blooded and would not attach intimately with anyone - wives included. Saw it as rediculous. Now I can cry even watching a Disney movie. Especially movies depicting dead GIs. So after many years a change has taken place within me. I was at first embarassed by this - now it doesn't matter - am happy that I can 'feel'. As far as personality goes - I see mind as co-ordinating and harmonizing our inner constituent parts and personality as a unifying function of these co-ordinated constituent parts - period. Personality mirrors you as a whole unified person, a 'oneness' - an individual. Character can be displayed by material acts or spiritual acts or both. Identity is a choice and gift of our unique personality.Choice is perogative of personality not mind. I have mindal identity from birth with my material self, ego - and my material environment. Takes maturation to progress spiritually. Takes effort. Takes choice.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest EEB aka AASB-AWSW

p381:03 In every mortal there exists a dual nature: the inheritance of animal tendencies and the high urge of spirit endowment. During the short life you live on Urantia, these two diverse and opposing urges can seldom be fully reconciled; they can hardly be harmonized and unified; but throughout your lifetime the combined Spirit ever ministers to assist you in subjecting the flesh more and more to the leading of the Spirit.

 

p1134:03 Human happiness is achieved only when the ego desire of the self and the altruistic urge of the higher self (divine spirit) are co-ordinated and reconciled by the unified will of the integrating and supervising personality. The mind of evolutionary man is ever confronted with the intricate problem of refereeing the contest between the natural expansion of emotional impulses and the moral growth of unselfish urges predicated on spiritual insight-genuine religious reflection.

 

The higher self is the "high urge of spirit endowment", the divine spirit, a.k.a. Adjuster guided soul.

 

Transferring the seat of identity is the evolution of dominance that TUB talks about. We evolve our identity from the material mind to the soul, and by so doing, increase spirit dominance.

 

 

112.5.4 But mortal personality, through its own choosing, possesses the power of transferring its seat of identity from the passing material-intellect system to the higher morontia-soul system which, in association with the Thought Adjuster, is created as a new vehicle for personality manifestation.

 

 

p1229:2 112:2.11 The purpose of cosmic evolution is to achieve unity of personality through increasing spirit dominance, volitional response to the teaching and leading of the Thought Adjuster. Personality, both human and superhuman, is characterized by an inherent cosmic quality which may be called "the evolution of dominance," the expansion of the control of both itself and its environment.

 

This behavior is not that uncommon, in that I had made contact with the following group http://www.daynal.org/ and Emailed back and forth with one of the editors of the site. After going through a lengthy identification process was allowed to peruse the site. Many recorded transcripts of just such individuals who are having a bi-level conversation with them-self. For the most part I have seen evidence of this type of behavior on this forum and likens multiple personality disorder. The quotes above fit this to a tee, but there is more here than meets the eye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...