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Absonite

The Universal Mother

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Guest EEB aka AASB-AWSW

 

Just to be clear there is an individuality of the "whole" and that is not opinion and not only is it not an opinion but its one of the most vital distinctions to make in the entire revelation etleast that is written in this paragraph. 1227.7) 112:1.17"individuality of the whole" "This distinction is vital"

 

How could the individuality of the whole bond to an Infinite Spirit or a Eternal Son or other beings? I think the answer is harmony and unity. The universe has a harmony, our survival is going to be dependent on our ability to be in harmony with the harmony of the cosmos. These revelations IMO clearly show that there is a universe harmony and if we match that harmony, we can be held by the finite upholder who is this harmony. I don't exactly understand how this individuality can bond so strongly the Infinite Spirit or Eternal Son though, I know the u.b talks about a power-personality sythesis. If this type of synthesis can take place, where personality bonds to power I am sure its not the only synthesis in the Universe. There are some clues though in the paper entitled "Personalization of the Creative Spirit" of how this process can happen etleast for lower orders of beings.

 

I don't know how you associated "Mother" or "Infinite Spirit" with the "whole", specifically with the quote you took it from, which specifically identifies "personality as the meaning of the whole", which then makes your "individuality of the whole" translates to individuality of the personality.

 

(1227.7) 112:1.17 But the concept of the personality as the meaning of the whole of the living and functioning creature means much more than the integration of relationships; it signifies the unification of all factors of reality as well as co-ordination of relationships. Relationships exist between two objects, but three or more objects eventuate a system, and such a system is much more than just an enlarged or complex relationship. This distinction is vital, for in a cosmic system the individual members are not connected with each other except in relation to the whole and through the individuality of the whole.

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That's a great point! Personality unifies systems to make them a "whole". As that quote suggests. So shouldn't that quote say "individuality of the personality"? .... Hmmm unless the cosmos/whole/power some how synthesized with personlity... like a power-personality synthesis.... Maybe that is how there is an individuality of the whole. Because the whole and the personality are synthesizing... Now the question of why mother?? Well the u.b shares that the trinity can distribute different facets god. So we should ask ourselves what facet of god is this personality of the Supreme Being coming from.... Well the revelators share that the Supreme Being is "God the Mother". She is the individuality of the Supreme Being. She is the Supreme which synthesizes with the power. It's her individuality that we must have some relation to and this is "vital". She is what allows for us to be potentially spiritually unified, and experience a unity of mind as kindred minds.

Edited by -Scott-

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The vital distinction in that quote references the eventuated system talked about in the previous sentence.

 

The vital distinction to make is that an eventuated system is more than an enlarged or complex relationship.

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Guest EEB aka AASB-AWSW

That's a great point! Personality unifies systems to make them a "whole". As that quote suggests. So shouldn't that quote say "individuality of the personality"? .... Hmmm unless the cosmos/whole/power some how synthesized with personlity... like a power-personality synthesis.... Maybe that is how there is an individuality of the whole. Because the whole and the personality are synthesizing... Now the question of why mother?? Well the u.b shares that the trinity can distribute different facets god. So we should ask ourselves what facet of god is this personality of the Supreme Being coming from.... Well the revelators share that the Supreme Being is "God the Mother". She is the individuality of the Supreme Being. She is the Supreme which synthesizes with the power. It's her individuality that we must have some relation to and this is "vital". She is what allows for us to be potentially spiritually unified, and experience a unity of mind as kindred minds.

 

Yes and No. It would appear that the UB used the "whole" to indicate that personality is a component of many changing factors, as an individual/person changes throughout a given period. Would not a person change once they became fused, and thereby being fused, changeable, based on one or more domination factors. Therefore, personality must be a stable varient but within the aspect of the whole.

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The vital distinction in that quote references the eventuated system talked about in the previous sentence.

 

The vital distinction to make is that an eventuated system is more than an enlarged or complex relationship.

 

Okay but when you see that the authors say that this system is "more than an enlarged or complex relationship". Are you not left wondering what more there is??? "(more than)..an enlarged or complex relationships" Well they answer what the bigger picture is in the next sentence. That line is just a lead up to the climax. The "more" is this..." for in a cosmic system the individual members are not connected with each other except in relation to the whole and through the individuality of the whole."

 

The fact that individuals are not connected with each other except in relation to the individuality of the whole is the bigger picture. A cosmic system is not just a complex relationship. There is literally a "Whole" an that "whole" has an individuality. This is what the authors are trying to get us to understand. Its the bigger picture. This is what is so vital. Its not enough that we think of a cosmic system as a complex relationship, we should take that understanding one step further and the authors do that in the next sentence.

 

 

 

Yes and No. It would appear that the UB used the "whole" to indicate that personality is a component of many changing factors, as an individual/person changes throughout a given period. Would not a person change once they became fused, and thereby being fused, changeable, based on one or more domination factors. Therefore, personality must be a stable varient but within the aspect of the whole.

 

Right but what does the u.b reveal about personality? They reveal that it is changeless, and that personality can unify "whole" of our being. A personality will not change regardless if the being of a human changes. The being of the Supreme Being may change as it evolves, but the Personality of the Supreme Being will not change. It will always have that same "totality attitude" or "individuality" and it can unify all new facts with that personality. No matter how complex the facts are.

Edited by -Scott-

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In that specific case of that quote - the more is what we recognize and call the system of those three objects' relationships.

Edited by Absonite

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Absonite if you read this entire paragraph do you really think that the "more" is the "system"? Just look how the first sentence of this paragraph ties into the last sentence of a paragraph. A good writer always makes his introduction and conclusion tie into one another so as to put the entire story in context. A system is not as all inclusive as the "whole". A system is a part of the "whole".

 

(1227.7) 112:1.17 But the concept of the personality as the meaning of the whole of the living and functioning creature means much more than the integration of relationships; it signifies the unification of all factors of reality as well as co-ordination of relationships. Relationships exist between two objects, but three or more objects eventuate a system, and such a system is much more than just an enlarged or complex relationship. This distinction is vital, for in a cosmic system the individual members are not connected with each other except in relation to the whole and through the individuality of the whole.

 

If you can read that paragraph and say that the "more" is just a system I think you missed the entire motivation of the paragraph. The authors are trying to get us to think of these cosmic systems as more than just systems.

Edited by -Scott-

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No - they're trying to make sure that we don't just make the mistake of considering a cosmic system as merely an enlarged or complex relationship.

 

Yes - a cosmic system is an enlarged or complex relationship - but it's more than just that alone: it's a system that is eventuated.

 

That's why they say that making the distinction between an enlarged or complex relationship and a system is vital - because when we then move on to considering cosmic systems we can examine how individuals participating in the system connect in relation to, and through the individuality of, the whole.

Edited by Absonite

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Okay it may be that they are using that designation in reference of a cosmic system. Regardless I think it's safe to say the entire paragraph is an important revelation. I wouldn't want to ignore any aspect of it. I think we can agree that all these systems are all part of the "whole".

Edited by -Scott-

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I just found a quote that summarizes Havona, I am not going to try and make the argument that it is experiential again, but its not exactly devoid of experiential reality either, just as I suggested earlier.

 

105:7.2.That which is transcendental is not necessarily nondevelopmental, but it is superevolutional in the finite sense; neither is it nonexperiential, but it is superexperience as such is meaningful to creatures. Perhaps the best illustration of such a paradox is the central universe of perfection: It is hardly absolute—only the Paradise Isle is truly absolute in the "materialized" sense. Neither is it a finite evolutionary creation as are the seven superuniverses. Havona is eternal but not changeless in the sense of being a universe of nongrowth. It is inhabited by creatures (Havona natives) who never were actually created, for they are eternally existent. Havona thus illustrates something which is not exactly finite nor yet absolute. Havona further acts as a buffer between absolute Paradise and finite creations, still further illustrating the function of transcendentals. But Havona itself is not a transcendental—it is Havona.

 

So apparently it could be described as "superexperiential".

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Sometimes it's useful to read the quote within it's complete context.

 

112:1.16-19 Personality cannot very well perform in isolation. Man is innately a social creature; he is dominated by the craving of belongingness. It is literally true, "No man lives unto himself."

But the concept of the personality as the meaning of the whole of the living and functioning creature means much more than the integration of relationships; it signifies the unification of all factors of reality as well as co-ordination of relationships. Relationships exist between two objects, but three or more objects eventuate a system, and such a system is much more than just an enlarged or complex relationship. This distinction is vital, for in a cosmic system the individual members are not connected with each other except in relation to the whole and through the individuality of the whole.

In the human organism the summation of its parts constitutes selfhood—individuality—but such a process has nothing whatever to do with personality, which is the unifier of all these factors as related to cosmic realities.

In aggregations parts are added; in systems parts are arranged. Systems are significant because of organization—positional values. In a good system all factors are in cosmic position. In a bad system something is either missing or displaced—deranged. In the human system it is the personality which unifies all activities and in turn imparts the qualities of identity and creativity.

 

And in regards to a system, let's not forget for the angels' sake, a working group of three or more persons is a social problem. Oh how true, how true. Those poor, poor angels.

 

39:3.6 Two beings are regarded as operating on the mating, complemental, or partnership basis, but when three or more are grouped for service, they constitute a social problem and therefore fall within the jurisdiction of the social architects.

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Guest EEB aka AASB-AWSW

. . . .

And in regards to a system, let's not forget for the angels' sake, a working group of three or more persons is a social problem. Oh how true, how true. Those poor, poor angels.

. . . .

 

So true but I believe that there is some metabolic intake causing an angelic distortion not under their control fueling the angelic host.

(286.4) 26:1.16 Supernaphim are limited in “spirit polarity” regarding only one phase of action, that with the Universal Father. They can work singly except when directly employing the exclusive circuits of the Father. When they are in power reception on the Father’s direct ministry, supernaphim must voluntarily associate in pairs to be able to function. Seconaphim are likewise limited and in addition must work in pairs in order to synchronize with the circuits of the Eternal Son. Seraphim can work singly as discrete and localized personalities, but they are able to encircuit only when polarized as liaison pairs. When such spirit beings are associated as pairs, the one is spoken of as complemental to the other. Complemental relationships may be transient; they are not necessarily of a permanent nature.

 

(286.5) 26:1.17 These brilliant creatures of light are sustained directly by the intake of the spiritual energy of the primary circuits of the universe. Urantia mortals must obtain light-energy through the vegetative incarnation, but the angelic hosts are encircuited; they “have food that you know not.” They also partake of the circulating teachings of the marvelous Trinity Teacher Sons; they have a reception of knowledge and an intake of wisdom much resembling their technique of assimilating the life energies.

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I think the question people may have is how do they discover this "individuality of the whole"? And is this even important? I think its safe to say that it is important .how people go about discovering this "individuality of the whole" IMO is a bit more complicated of a question haha, etleast for me. I do know that regarding systems there is "total planet" and "total universe" etc. So that totality individuality is still here if we can discover it.

 

(115.4) 10:7.2 As things appear to the mortal on the finite level, the Paradise Trinity, like the Supreme Being, is concerned only with the total — total planet, total universe, total superuniverse, total grand universe. This totality attitude exists because the Trinity is the total of Deity and for many other reasons.

 

IMO "for many other reasons" include God the Mother.

 

 

I believe that when we discover the individuality of the whole, we are more easily engaged by the whole (God the Mother) as a finite upholder she can uphold us because we are not just living in a figmentary world. We are in unity with the whole. The finite upholder can uphold us because the form of our mind is the form of the cosmos. Of coarse there is also a chance that we always remain spiritual islands unto ourselves and refuse to unify ourselves with the cosmos.

 

(670.2) 58:6.8 Through almost endless cycles of gains and losses, adjustments and readjustments, all living organisms swing back and forth from age to age. Those that attain cosmic unity persist, while those that fall short of this goal cease to exist.

 

Though because there is a universal bestowal of adjusters, it would likely take a ton of effort to actually refuse this unity. I don't think ignorance alone could lead to our death.

Edited by -Scott-

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Personality is the meaning of the whole.

 

Individuality of the whole can be individuality of personality - however, it also can simply reference the indivisibility of wholeness.

 

 

 

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Personality is the meaning of the whole.

 

Individuality of the whole can be individuality of personality - however, it also can simply reference the indivisibility of wholeness.

 

This quote could mean many things but we know the Supreme has its own individuality (personality). So its not that mysterious of a quote. The Supreme is the individuality of the "whole" . She is also God the Mother. Our literal parent, in whom we literally have our being in. The Supreme Being is a power-personality synthesis. The "whole" and "personality" synthesize as one being.

 

1288.1) 117:6.2 If you truly desire to find God, you cannot help having born in your minds the consciousness of the Supreme. As God is your divine Father, so is the Supreme your divine Mother, in whom you are nurtured throughout your lives as universe creatures. “How universal is the Supreme — he is on all sides! The limitless things of creation depend on his presence for life, and none are refused.”

 

1288.4) 117:6.5 The morontia soul of an evolving mortal is really the son of the Adjuster action of the Universal Father and the child of the cosmic reaction of the Supreme Being, the Universal Mother. The mother influence dominates the human personality throughout the local universe childhood of the growing soul. The influence of the Deity parents becomes more equal after the Adjuster fusion and during the superuniverse career

 

(1240.1) 112:7.19 True it is, you mortals are of earthly, animal origin; your frame is indeed dust. But if you actually will, if you really desire, surely the heritage of the ages is yours, and you shall someday serve throughout the universes in your true characters — children of the Supreme God of experience and divine sons of the Paradise Father of all personalities.

 

(1281.5) 117:3.3 Said Jesus: “I am the living way,” and so he is the living way from the material level of self-consciousness to the spiritual level of God-consciousness. And even as he is this living way of ascension from the self to God, so is the Supreme the living way from finite consciousness to transcendence of consciousness, even to the insight of absonity.

 

The Supreme is the living way from finite consciousness to transcendent consciousness because its only through the individuality of the Supreme (the individuality of the whole) that we are connected to others. If we ignore this aspect of God we are island universes, we can never be kindred spirits let alone kindred minds with anyone, spiritual unity with other human beings would be impossible for us.

Edited by -Scott-

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Just as I have no trouble with The Absolute and The Ultimate, I have no trouble with The Supreme.

 

I do have trouble with the UB undeniably referencing both the Second Source-Center and The Supreme as the "Universal Mother" - when those two are not the same. This issue isn't resolved for me by pretending they're talking about different levels of motherhood. They're talking about one level: the *Universal* - which makes referencing both the SSC and Supreme as the "Universal Mother" a false equivalence and/or a contradiction to me.

 

The only way I can see to resolve this right now is to set aside the inconsistent familial analogy, and just run with The Supreme.

Edited by Absonite
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Personality is the meaning of the whole.

 

Which is why they say:

 

1:5.7 Without God and except for his great and central person, there would be no personality throughout all the vast universe of universes. God is personality.

 

5:6.4 There is no personality apart from God the Father, and no personality exists except for God the Father.

 

And TUB agrees that the terms mother and father are concessions used to help sex-creatures comprehend the nature of the type of love characteristic of certain personalities. The love of God is like the love of a father and the love of the Son is like the affection of a mother, which they call mercy. Mother and father are words meant to explain different types of love.

 

6:3.5 As love is comprehended on a sex planet, the love of God is more comparable to the love of a father, while the love of the Eternal Son is more like the affection of a mother. Crude, indeed, are such illustrations, but I employ them in the hope of conveying to the human mind the thought that there is a difference, not in divine content but in quality and technique of expression, between the love of the Father and the love of the Son.

 

So not only is God personality, but God is love, and mercy is the quality and technique he uses to express his love through his sons. Mercy implies affection, which is why the title of mother.

 

3:4.7 Therefore man's nearest and dearest approach to God is by and through love, for God is love. And all of such a unique relationship is an actual experience in cosmic sociology, the Creator-creature relationship - the Father-child affection.

 

6:3.5 God is love, the Son is mercy. Mercy is applied love, the Father's love in action in the person of his Eternal Son.

 

6:3.1 The Son shares the justice and righteousness of the Trinity but overshadows these divinity traits by the infinite personalization of the Father's love and mercy; the Son is the revelation of divine love to the universes. As God is love, so the Son is mercy. The Son cannot love more than the Father, but he can show mercy to creatures in one additional way, for he not only is a primal creator like the Father, but he is also the Eternal Son of that same Father, thereby sharing in the sonship experience of all other sons of the Universal Father.

 

I'm inclined to believe that whenever a Divine being exemplifies divine love in action, that being can be called Mother.

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Just as I have no trouble with The Absolute and The Ultimate, I have no trouble with The Supreme.

 

I do have trouble with the UB undeniably referencing both the Second Source-Center and The Supreme as the "Universal Mother" - when those two are not the same. This issue isn't resolved for me by pretending they're talking about different levels of motherhood. They're talking about one level: the *Universal* - which makes referencing both the SSC and Supreme as the "Universal Mother" a false equivalence and/or a contradiction to me.

 

The only way I can see to resolve this right now is to set aside the inconsistent familial analogy, and just run with The Supreme.

 

Havona is a (super-experiential) Universe(105:7.2). Experiential deity all comes from the I AM. All we have to do is follow the bread-crumbs of the Supreme back to the I AM and see that even experiential deity is connected to the source of all reality, the end connects back with the beginning. The Eternal Son as God the sevenfold experiences superexperiential reality in Havona. Hence he is also a existential-experiential being.

 

God the sevenfold in terms of the (Eternal Son, Infinite Spirit, Father) is a subinfinite expression of these Absolute individualities, and these deities are persent in Havona in this expression.

 

The experiential meets up with the existential, and we get a Mother-Son. Havona is a Universe so he is also a Universal Mother as he is expressed through god the sevenfold. Mother type diety is more than just experiential type diety it is a certain type of love as Bonita suggested. A mothers love is blanketing, it recognizes relationships and covers all. A Fathers love is fixed on individuals its like a laser beam directed at every being as though they literally are the only being in the Universe.

Edited by -Scott-

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6:5.5 The Eternal Son, as an Infinite and exclusively personal being, cannot fragmentize his nature, cannot distribute and bestow individualized portions of his selfhood upon other entities or personsas do the Universal Father and the Infinite Spirit. But the Son can and does bestow himself as an unlimited spirit to bathe all creation and unceasingly draw all spirit personalities and spiritual realities to himself.

 

34:2.1 To many universe types of being, even this representation of the Infinite Spirit may not appear to be wholly personal during the ages preceding the final Michael bestowal; but subsequent to the elevation of the Creator Son to the sovereign authority of a Master Son, the Creative Mother Spirit becomes so augmented in personal qualities as to be personally recognized by all contacting individuals.

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The word Universe is not used in just some poetic sense by the authors. If we break down the etymology of the word universe we can see how this relates to mother type diety. Uni literally means One. Verse means Turning. So the universe is (one turning). Mother type diety is concerned with the "whole". Hence the a cosmic system is part of the One or "whole". There is an individuality to that One, or a totality attitude as the authors restate it in another paragraph. Hence there is One turning. There is a "whole" that is fundamentally dynamic (turning) its not some static individuality its flowing. Mother type deity can engage the entire whole. Where as Father type deity is like a lazer beam its focused on the individual. The Father literally recognizes you as though you are on the only being in the universe. But the Mother recognizes you in relation to the whole. Of coarse that does not mean the Father is not aware of the whole, its just two different aspects of God. (God the Mother) and (God the Father). But all these aspects come from the Father Infinite. Father-Father is a designation IMO the authors use to bridge back mother type diety to the father. There is a finite upholder, absonite upholder which is God the Mother but at the Infinite functional level there is the Infinite Upholder which is the Father. Hence the Father-Father designation used by the authors. The Father is the Mother.

Edited by -Scott-

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Given that the Second Source-Center does not fragmentize and bestow - with what exactly did a Son-fused individual fuse?

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@ Absonite the authors say that the Son gives these mortals a gift.

 

449.6) 40:8.3 When it becomes apparent that some synchronizing difficulty is inhibiting Father fusion, the survival referees of the Creator Son are convened. And when this court of inquiry, sanctioned by a personal representative of the Ancients of Days, finally determines that the ascending mortal is not guilty of any discoverable cause for failure to attain fusion, they so certify on the records of the local universe and duly transmit this finding to the Ancients of Days. Thereupon does the indwelling Adjuster return forthwith to Divinington for confirmation by the Personalized Monitors, and upon this leave-taking the morontia mortal is immediately fused with an individualized gift of the spirit of the Creator Son.

 

God knows what that gift is.

Edited by -Scott-

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Given that the Second Source-Center does not fragmentize and bestow - with what exactly did a Son-fused individual fuse?

 

Another quote:

 

107:1.7 Son-fused creatures are united with individualized bestowals of the spirit of the Creator Sons of the Eternal Son.

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So - the SSC does not bestow Son Fragments - but a Michael's spirit bestows individuations that can (and apparently do) fuse with some mortals.

 

Interesting...

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