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Who Survives Death?

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I was trying to figure out why so many people feel fustrated when they do not believe they are born of the spirit. We shouldn't be afraid for ourselves or even those people who are living on the animal plane of existence who are not born of spirit. The urantia book says that all it takes is just a "flicker of faith" to enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

Yet people see quotes like how Jesus said if "you do not bear these fruits you are dead". I think what confuses people is that they do not realize that Jesus is not only talking about this life but he is also talking about the extension of this mortal life which is the life on the mansion worlds. Someone cannot go through life completely unaware of everything and die of their sins. They have to be given a choice, even if they are only living on the "animal plane of existance". So many of the quotes in the u.b and in the bible are referring to not only this life but life on the mansion worlds.

 

Anyways I hope those people who thought they were going to die in this life or that their freinds and family are going to die for being like animals can breathe easy. Nobody is going to die from ignorance. You have to be really really really selfish to die in this life time.

Edited by Warren Scott
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I was trying to figure out why so many people feel fustrated when they do not believe they are born of the spirit. We shouldn't be afraid for ourselves or even those people who are living on the animal plane of existence who are not born of spirit. The urantia book says that all it takes is just a "flicker of faith" to enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

Yet people see quotes like how Jesus said if "you do not bear these fruits you are dead". I think what confuses people is that they do not realize that Jesus is not only talking about this life but he is also talking about the extension of this mortal life which is the life on the mansion worlds. Someone cannot go through life completely unaware of everything and die of their sins. They have to be given a choice, even if they are only living on the "animal plane of existance". So many of the quotes in the u.b and in the bible are referring to not only this life but life on the mansion worlds.

 

Anyways I hope those people who thought they were going to die in this life or that their freinds and family are going to die for being like animals can breathe easy. Nobody is going to die from ignorance. You have to be really really really selfish to die in this life time.

 

I am listening to Chris speaking on this very topic right now. Real deep stuff!!!

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Hope . . .

Faith . . .

Certainty . . .

Challenge . . .

 

These are all words we know; but not enough people feel very much of the first two. That is where we come in. Each of us who have discovered The Urantia Book, and who have partaken of the bounty of God's love, must SHARE that love. We have a fountain of the Living Waters amidst us, which Living Water will quench the thirst of the fearful and irrigate parched souls with more hope than they have ever known. We who know our Heavenly Father are the vehicle through which He can rescue our brothers and sisters.

 

Will it be easy? No. Will we always know exactly what's next? No, again. Will the salvation of all God's children on Urantia take work? Yes, immense amounts of work! BUT. . . We know we have help, even celestial help, even God's personal help! All the Seraphim, Archangels, and other Daughters of God will join with all the Universe Sons of God, and all the Paradise Citizens who are joyfully engaged in the grand call to perfect the mortal children of time and space; and we don't need to do it all by ourself!

 

I agree that one must be wholly insane or completely unsalvable, or knowingly choosing NOT to survive. I also agree that far more people than most folks currently think will arrive on the shores of Mansonia; and there continue their eternal spiritual education. I say to all who read this, leave your fears and uncertainty and doubt by the road! Have an assurance of the continuing love of God, and do what you can to grow yourself, and do what you can to share with others. Don't worry about harsh or unfair judgement - that's just not the way God works!

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I think it just eases everyones nerves when they realize that even if you are not born of the spirit in this life you will survive. In order to sin against deity you have to be able to recognize deity in the first place. I do not know many people who have actually been able to see clear enough in the first place in order to go against deity. Clearly this is something that can happen on the mansion worlds though. In a way this life is a gift in that, we will all get so much mercy for our mistakes.

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Hello all,

 

That is why there are 7 mansion worlds. Some of us will land on world 7 and some on others.

Death is temporal and during our adventure to paradise we will have to go through it 7 times.

The only thing on this world we need a wish to know the Father.

With this wish we start our journey and in my case it is with light speed.

 

Godspeed and peace to all.

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Nice to meet you Warren and Hrvoje!

 

On the subject of who survives, I recall this reference and I'm comforted. What comforts me is the undying hope I have for my friends and family who do not yet have (at least it's not apparent to me) the unseen ingredient revealed below.

 

 

As to the chances of mortal survival, let it be made forever clear: All souls of every possible phase of mortal existence will survive provided they manifest willingness to co-operate with their indwelling Adjusters and exhibit a desire to find God and to attain divine perfection, even though these desires be but the first faint flickers of the primitive comprehension of that "true light which lights every man who comes into the world."
P.447 - §4

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Meredith

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Thanks Meredith,

 

This one also bears on the survival question, from 49:4:

 

...Survival is dependent on spiritualization by the ministry of the Adjuster--on the birth and evolution of the immortal soul; at least,
there must not have developed an antagonism towards the Adjuster's mission
of effecting the spiritual transformation of the material mind.... P.565 - 1

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Here's another good reference on the topic. In this one we find out that neither confusion, ignorance nor fearful uncertainty can prevent survival. Only conscious resistance to the Adjuster's leading can prevent it.

 

 

Confusion, being puzzled, even sometimes discouraged and distracted, does not necessarily signify resistance to the leadings of the indwelling Adjuster. Such attitudes may sometimes connote lack of active co-operation with the divine Monitor and may, therefore, somewhat delay spiritual progress, but such intellectual emotional difficulties do not in the least interfere with the certain survival of the God-knowing soul. Ignorance alone can never prevent survival; neither can confusional doubts nor fearful uncertainty. Only conscious resistance to the Adjuster's leading can prevent the survival of the evolving immortal soul.
P.1206 - §3

 

 

 

 

All the best,

Meredith

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I wonder which quotes are extensions of this life (the morontia life). So many of these quotes seem to talk not only about mortal life but about our morontia careers. The quote about spiritual fruit where jesus says we are dead if we do not have any fruit. I think that he is obviously talking about the morontia life as well. Few mortals ever display spiritual fruit in this life, yet we know most survive so it lends to reason that he is talking about that life as well.

 

Also we know that every 6 year old has a soul. If a 6 year old dies he still lives because that 1st morale choice gave birth to a soul. So that would mean on our planet everyone has a soul.

 

 

.Survival is dependent on spiritualization by the ministry of the Adjuster--on the birth and evolution of the immortal soul; at least, there must not have developed an antagonism towards the Adjuster's mission of effecting the spiritual transformation of the material mind.... P.565 - 1

 

To develop an antagonism towards the adjusters mission, would imply that someone is aggressively trying to sabotage themseleves. So laziness cannot get you destroyed. Someone cannot die because of ignorance. :)

 

IMO it looks like someone would have to actively seek to be a bad person all the time in order to actually unravel their own soul.

Edited by Warren Scott
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I wonder which quotes are extensions of this life (the morontia life). So many of these quotes seem to talk not only about mortal life but about our morontia careers. The quote about spiritual fruit where jesus says we are dead if we do not have any fruit. I think that he is obviously talking about the morontia life as well. Few mortals ever display spiritual fruit in this life, yet we know most survive so it lends to reason that he is talking about that life as well.

 

Here's what Jesus said (in part) at one of his morontia appearances to a group of believers.

 

 

Salvation is the free gift of God, but those who are born of the spirit will immediately begin to show forth the fruits of the spirit in loving service to their fellow creatures. And the fruits of the divine spirit which are yielded in the lives of spirit-born and God-knowing mortals are: loving service, unselfish devotion, courageous loyalty, sincere fairness, enlightened honesty, undying hope, confiding trust, merciful ministry, unfailing goodness, forgiving tolerance, and enduring peace. If professed believers bear not these fruits of the divine spirit in their lives, they are dead; the Spirit of Truth is not in them; they are useless branches on the living vine, and they soon will be taken away. My Father requires of the children of faith that they bear much spirit fruit. If, therefore, you are not fruitful, he will dig about your roots and cut away your unfruitful branches. Increasingly, must you yield the fruits of the spirit as you progress heavenward in the kingdom of God. You may enter the kingdom as a child, but the Father requires that you grow up, by grace, to the full stature of spiritual adulthood. And when you go abroad to tell all nations the good news of this gospel, I will go before you, and my Spirit of Truth shall abide in your hearts. My peace I leave with you."
P.2054 - §3

 

 

 

He's talking about and to professed believers. Growing up to spiritual adulthood means we have to progressively produce increasing measures of fruits of the divine spirit. If the Spirit of Truth, the living vine, is not in us, we are useless and dead branches on it. The good news is that Jesus is the vine. Here's a reference showing Jesus' teaching about the vine and the branches:

 

Then Jesus stood up again and continued teaching his apostles: "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. I am the vine, and you are the branches. And the Father requires of me only that you shall bear much fruit. The vine is pruned only to increase the fruitfulness of its branches. Every branch coming out of me which bears no fruit, the Father will take away. Every branch which bears fruit, the Father will cleanse that it may bear more fruit. Already are you clean through the word I have spoken, but you must continue to be clean. You must abide in me, and I in you; the branch will die if it is separated from the vine. As the branch cannot bear fruit except it abides in the vine, so neither can you yield the fruits of loving service except you abide in me. Remember: I am the real vine, and you are the living branches. He who lives in me, and I in him, will bear much fruit of the spirit and experience the supreme joy of yielding this spiritual harvest. If you will maintain this living spiritual connection with me, you will bear abundant fruit. If you abide in me and my words live in you, you will be able to commune freely with me, and then can my living spirit so infuse you that you may ask whatsoever my spirit wills and do all this with the assurance that the Father will grant us our petition. Herein is the Father glorified: that the vine has many living branches, and that every branch bears much fruit. And when the world sees these fruit-bearing branches--my friends who love one another, even as I have loved them--all men will know that you are truly my disciples.
P.1945 - §4

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

With undying hope,

Meredith

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Our dear Sister Meredith - I discern you have no further need for "hope", eh? Perhaps you hope others find your serenity and confidence? Your perspective never fails to illuminate and sweeten every discussion. Thanks. Brother Rick's OPAD brought forth a discussion of the parable of the Talents that is very salient to this topic.

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Nice to meet you Bradly!

 

 

Hope springs eternal. And the Eternal is the wellspring of hope. One can never get enough of it! And one can never get enough of Him!

 

 

 

All the best,

Meredith

Edited by Meredith Van Woert
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He's talking about and to professed believers. Growing up to spiritual adulthood means we have to progressively produce increasing measures of fruits of the divine spirit. If the Spirit of Truth, the living vine, is not in us, we are useless and dead branches on it. The good news is that Jesus is the vine. Here's a reference showing Jesus' teaching about the vine and the branches:

 

Yes Meredith I understand that is the quote I was thinking of. That quote IMO is meant though not just for followers in this life, but for them in the next life. Many people on our planet do not even know that Jesus exists, or that god exists so they cannot bear the fruit of the spirit. And the u.b says that it takes only a flicker of faith to enter the kingdom of heaven. So this quote must be referring to a period of time that extends from this life to the morontia life. Many believers and non-believers do not find this vine while on our planet. A small child certainly will not. So IMO this quote is referring to not only our life in the flesh but the morontia one as well.

Edited by Warren Scott
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Thewages of sin is death” — eternal obliteration.

 

 

46:8.4 There will come an end for rebels and rebellion. The Supreme Rulers are merciful and patient, but the law of deliberately nourished evil is universally and unerringly executed. “Thewages of sin is death” — eternal obliteration.

 

 

53:9.8 But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth “that theway of the transgressor is hard”; “that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”; that “the wages of sin is death.”

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Hi all!

 

Posted Today, 08:53 PM

Warren Scott said:Yes Meredith I understand that is the quote I was thinking of. That quote IMO is meant though not just for followers in this life, but for them in the next life. Many people on our planet do not even know that Jesus exists, or that god exists so they cannot bear the fruit of the spirit. And the u.b says that it takes only a flicker of faith to enter the kingdom of heaven. So this quote must be referring to a period of time that extends from this life to the morontia life. Many believers and non-believers do not find this vine while on our planet. A small child certainly will not. So IMO this quote is referring to not only our life in the flesh but the morontia one as well.

 

 

 

It seems to me that there must be people who have "some kind of faith" and do not know

It is the presence of the Adjuster, the adjutant mind who are always pushing to find, even from unconsciousness,overcoming one way or another pulled forward.

Thus were born and grew the primitive civilizations,Andon and Fonta, for example, knew nothing, but kicked humanity with all the potential that we know, and there was great joy in heaven! :)

For me, unconsciously also can produce spiritual fruit.Sometimes even a child does, with his/her love, his humility, his purity, even altruism, cooperation.

If they do not know about the existence of Jesus, I do not think that is a serious impediment, Jesus and the Father know them! :)

Sometimes, unknowingly, can be a good person, honest heart, and so do the Father's will.

Not saying it's ideal, but if they were born in a lower level of evolution, I think they have opportunity for survives death.

 

 

(1569.1) 140:1.4 “But for you, my children, and for all others who would follow you into this kingdom, there is set a severe test. Faith alone will pass you through its portals, but you must bring forth the fruits of my Father’s spirit if you would continue to ascend in the progressive life of the divine fellowship. Verily, verily, I say to you, not every one who says, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but rather he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 

Alina

***

Edited by Alina
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It seems to me that there must be people who have "some kind of faith" and do not know

 

Indeed our soul is born at the age of 6, and "nothing of value is ever lost". Someone would have to destroy their own soul in order to not make it to the mansion worlds. And that is not an easy task, you would have to be really really bad all the time.

 

Sometimes even a child does, with his/her love, his humility, his purity, even altruism, cooperation.
I agree all children start out pure and connected as normal children of god, we just grow up and forget our connection to spiritual forces and forget how to connect. Edited by Warren Scott
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Hello Warren,

 

Yes, I understand your assertion that this is not just for followers in this life, but also in the next life in the morontia. We do pick up over there where we leave off down here. Over there the vestigial animal traits finally will be eradicated. The Great Gardner will likely be doing much pruning and training of the branches over there.

 

One of the purposes of the morontia career is to effect the permanent eradication from the mortal survivors of such animal vestigial traits as procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking. The mansonia life early teaches the young morontia pupils that postponement is in no sense avoidance. After the life in the flesh, time is no longer available as a technique of dodging situations or of circumventing disagreeable obligations.
P.551 - §3

 

 

 

Great reference, Alina!

 

 

The watchword of the universe is progress - progress here and progress over there.

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Meredith

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It may turn out we are actually all truly lucky to come from this world :).

Edited by Warren Scott
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We're lucky to be the sons of God.

 

28:6.5 2. The Memory of Mercy. These are the actual, full and replete, living records of the mercy which has been extended to individuals and races by the tender ministrations of the instrumentalities of the Infinite Spirit in the mission of adapting the justice of righteousness to the status of the realms, as disclosed by the portrayals of the Significance of Origins. The Memory of Mercy discloses the moral debt of the children of mercy — their spiritual liabilities — to be set down against their assets of the saving provision established by the Sons of God. In revealing the Father’s pre-existent mercy, the Sons of God establish the necessary credit to insure the survival of all. And then, in accordance with the findings of the Significance of Origins, a mercy credit is established for the survival of each rational creature, a credit of lavish proportions and one of sufficient grace to insure the survival of every soul who really desires divine citizenship.

 

 

28:6.7 The Memory of Mercy must show that the saving credit established by the Sons of God has been fully and faithfully paid out in the loving ministry of the patient personalities of the Third Source and Center. But when mercy is exhausted, when the “memory” thereof testifies to its depletion, then does justice prevail and righteousness decree. For mercy is not to be thrust upon those who despise it; mercy is not a gift to be trampled under foot by the persistent rebels of time. Nevertheless, though mercy is thus precious and dearly bestowed, your individual drawing credits are always far in excess of your ability to exhaust the reserve if you are sincere of purpose and honest of heart.

 

It's merely a matter of being grateful, sincere and honest. Those who prefer to hold grudges instead of being grateful; those who prefer to deceive rather than be sincere; those who prefer to be disingenuous rather than honest, are in the process of using up their mercy credits. Yes, the soul can become darkened. The light can go out, but only after all the mercy credits are exhausted.

 

139:12.8 This is just the reason why Jesus permitted Judas to go on to the very end, always doing everything possible to transform and save this weak and confused apostle. But when light is not honestly received and lived up to, it tends to become darkness within the soul. Judas grew intellectually regarding Jesus' teachings about the kingdom, but he did not make progress in the acquirement of spiritual character as did the other apostles. He failed to make satisfactory personal progress in spiritual experience.

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It may turn out we are actually all truly lucky to come from this world :).

 

As you say, Warren! Bonita correctly explained about the lavish credit of Mercy each one of us Urantians have set aside for us. There are at least two other areas where we are truly lucky to be from Urantia...

 

#1 - The individual survivor from Urantia could have an almost unique status in the eternal tomorrows we will live.

 

[P.578 - 6 thru P.579 - 2] On first thought it might appear that Urantia and its associated isolated worlds are most unfortunate in being deprived of the beneficent presence and influence of such superhuman personalities as a Planetary Prince and a Material Son and Daughter. But isolation of these spheres affords their races a unique opportunity for the exercise of faith and for the development of a peculiar quality of confidence in cosmic reliability which is not dependent on sight or any other material consideration. It may turn out, eventually, that mortal creatures hailing from the worlds quarantined in consequence of rebellion are extremely fortunate. We have discovered that such ascenders are very early intrusted with numerous special assignments to cosmic undertakings where unquestioned faith and sublime confidence are essential to achievement. On Jerusem the ascenders from these isolated worlds occupy a residential sector by themselves and are known as the agondonters, meaning evolutionary will creatures who can believe without seeing, persevere when isolated, and triumph over insuperable difficulties even when alone. This functional grouping of the agondonters persists throughout the ascension of the local universe and the traversal of the superuniverse; it disappears during the sojourn in Havona but promptly reappears upon the attainment of Paradise and definitely persists in the Corps of the Mortal Finality. Tabamantia is an agondonter of finaliter status, having survived from one of the quarantined spheres involved in the first rebellion ever to take place in the universes of time and space. All through the Paradise career, reward follows effort as the result of causes. Such rewards set off the individual from the average, provide a differential of creature experience, and contribute to the versatility of ultimate performances in the collective body of the finaliters.

 

#2 - We are the children of a world whereupon our Universe Father, Michael of Nebadon, completed his final bestowal. Christ Michael chose this world because this is the place where the great Love of His Father for the children of time could best be displayed.

 

[P.853 - 1] Misfortune has not, however, been the sole lot of Urantia; this planet has also been the most fortunate in the local universe of Nebadon. Urantians should count it all gain if the blunders of their ancestors and the mistakes of their early world rulers so plunged the planet into such a hopeless state of confusion, all the more confounded by evil and sin, that this very background of darkness should so appeal to Michael of Nebadon that he selected this world as the arena wherein to reveal the loving personality of the Father in heaven. It is not that Urantia needed a Creator Son to set its tangled affairs in order; it is rather that the evil and sin on Urantia afforded the Creator Son a more striking background against which to reveal the matchless love, mercy, and patience of the Paradise Father.

 

[P.1316 - 5] The public announcement that Michael had selected Urantia as the theater for his final bestowal was made shortly after we learned about the default of Adam and Eve. And thus, for more than thirty-five thousand years, your world occupied a very conspicuous place in the councils of the entire universe. There was no secrecy (aside from the incarnation mystery) connected with any step in the Urantia bestowal. From first to last, up to the final and triumphant return of Michael to Salvington as supreme Universe Sovereign, there was the fullest universe publicity of all that transpired on your small but highly honored world.

 

[P.1316 - 6 thru P.1317 - 0] While we believed that this would be the method, we never knew, until the time of the event itself, that Michael would appear on earth as a helpless infant of the realm. Theretofore had he always appeared as a fully developed individual of the personality group of the bestowal selection, and it was a thrilling announcement which was broadcast from Salvington telling that the babe of Bethlehem had been born on Urantia. We then not only realized that our Creator and friend was taking the most precarious step in all his career, apparently risking his position and authority on this bestowal as a helpless infant, but we also understood that his experience in this final and mortal bestowal would eternally enthrone him as the undisputed and supreme sovereign of the universe of Nebadon. For a third of a century of earth time all eyes in all parts of this local universe were focused on Urantia. All intelligences realized that the last bestowal was in progress, and as we had long known of the Lucifer rebellion in Satania and of the Caligastia disaffection on Urantia, we well understood the intensity of the struggle which would ensue when our ruler condescended to incarnate on Urantia in the humble form and likeness of mortal flesh.

 

[P.1319 - 1] Urantia is the sentimental shrine of all Nebadon, the chief of ten million inhabited worlds, the mortal home of Christ Michael, sovereign of all Nebadon, a Melchizedek minister to the realms, a system savior, an Adamic redeemer, a seraphic fellow, an associate of ascending spirits, a morontia progressor, a Son of Man in the likeness of mortal flesh, and the Planetary Prince of Urantia. And your record tells the truth when it says that this same Jesus has promised some time to return to the world of his terminal bestowal, the World of the Cross.

 

 

There is an almost miraculous result of the experience of hardship, trial, and disaster; and that is that all such survivors are more merciful, more loving, more understanding, and so very much more able to lead and guide others through such experiences throughout the whole of Heavenly Father's cosmos. Our futures are incredibly bright, having had to live through what we did, transforming us into uniquely-qualified ministers of God to those in distress and turmoil. Such a future I could not have dreamed of, but I know now it is going to be so. Glory Hallelujah!

Edited by JR Sherrod
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