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New post by Robert

 

1. url of post

 

http://www.urantia-uai.org/forums/index.ph...dpost&p=770

 

2 I find the bolded phrases inflammatory. Even if his use of the words may be in quotes or technically not in violation of forum rules, his TONE leaves much to be desired.

 

hi phil, and u_rantian--and the game-theory groover who maintains you can sell a product and we are supposed to be "priviliged" that its for sale--ie

before such material twaddle became in vogue--all readers had a home

at the Foundations far longer existing sites.

As for adults--they must only employ eunuchs--seeing the same Foundation "hasnt actually changed hands"...anyway--what fun hey...and lets continue as we had planned:

 

Phil--there really isnt a need for "lynching the moderator"--although the call to arms--was appreciated--

 

I think he just violated the first 3 rules:

 

1. Civility. Dialogue is expected to be civil and respectful. Profanity is not permitted. Since we are communicating with diverse people of different cultural backgrounds, civility can be subjective and a common standard for civility may be difficult to define. However, if each forum member acts as a son or daughter of God, he/she will not present a problem to the forum moderators.

 

2. Personal attacks. Attacks upon the character, personality, heritage, beliefs, motives, or actions of any persons are unacceptable.

 

Although it was said in jest I feel it is an attack on the moderator.

 

3. Group attacks. Attacks upon the purposes, policies, plans or procedures of any group or organization are unacceptable.

 

"Seeing the same Foundation hasn't actually changed hands"

 

 

3. Recommendations:

 

He gets either a 60-day suspension or banned from forum. I don't wish to spend my time trying to interpret and police this guy. I got better things to do. I've only met a few people that suck in my energy and time. Robert is getting to be one of these people. We can either decide to tolerate him disrupting the forum, using up our time or let him go.

 

admin

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I just got this PM from Robert

after mentioning it takes me considerable time to respond to PMs

 

My interpretation is he does not want us to be supervising people. He comes to our house and tells us we should let all visitors do as they please. That is his attitude. I was working on updating the Charter and Bylaws in the UAI site. I had to set that aside and now have spent 5.5 hours in the forum dealing with a problem initiated by one person. I don't have the time nor do I want to spend my time dealing with this guy. What say you, moderators? He may be a genius but his condescending and confrontational attitude is something else.

 

I going to stay away from the forum for a while. With Robert's reappearance I feel the atmosphere in the forum has changed again to: less peace and more strife. When you have come to a decision about Robert please email me at admin@urantia-uai.org or send me a PM.

Whatever your decision may be, give me a good reason. One of you has to break the tie if there is one.

 

Remember that I could be 100% wrong in my assessment of Robert. Think for yourselves.

 

thanks.

admin

 

as much as teething problems must exist--it appears we--ie "the priviliged" are supposedly

to offer our efforts gratis--and supposedly that equals STUDY--[ie urantians understanding, and also my own and others that have already posted and/or recently joined]..

 

INSTEAD--we now seem to be undergoing--interruption and redefining of "protocols"--ie no mention in FORUM rules--has "censor" or "editting" MENTIONED.

 

So if you want to SHOWCASE others work--why not request their permission--or at least sort out--that individuals DONT REQUIRE SUPERVISION.

 

ie the crowds only arrive because of the umpire--seems to be what youre attempting to state.

 

We wanted the staff to have the option of participating in the forum personally as themselves or officially as a moderator or admin. Sorry if that does not appeal to you.

 

reply: can you name one forum--where the request is "dumb it down"--

ie

WHATS THE GAME--getting a free-ride from others efforts???

 

Lastly I repeat what I said in another post (one of the casualties in Mod4's clean up job) that we are new at this forum business and I ask for people to bear with us as we try to learn how to run a forum smoothly.

 

reply: there is no need to expand on the above--learnings cool--but supervision is retrograde--ie

havent you worked out the difference between adult and mature???

 

 

If the discussions were going well you would not be reading my post here which is way off-topic.

Appreciate much your contribution, Woody.

admin

 

reply: CARE PROVIDING the guidelines for "going well"...I'M SURE MEMBERS would readily assist...

 

Only with the advent of Revelation did theological arrogance begin...one-size fits all is exactly the same---ie not even life-similar....

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Was just reading the recent exchange between U-rantian & Robert. :P

Robert sure likes to debate. Nothing wrong with that I guess. I can live with it.

Actually I like his sense of humor--somewhat edgy, but that's the way he is.

Letting him stay in the forum gives us the opportunity to get to know him better,

and we also learn how to deal with difficult personalities, or at least U-rantian is.

The best thing I can do is to leave him alone. Not to interfere.

So, forget what I said yesterday. And forgive me for being wishy-washy.

 

:P

admin

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Was just reading the recent exchange between U-rantian & Robert. :P

Robert sure likes to debate. Nothing wrong with that I guess. I can live with it.

Actually I like his sense of humor--somewhat edgy, but that's the way he is.

Letting him stay in the forum gives us the opportunity to get to know him better,

and we also learn how to deal with difficult personalities, or at least U-rantian is.

The best thing I can do is to leave him alone. Not to interfere.

So, forget what I said yesterday. And forgive me for being wishy-washy.

 

:P

admin

Good news, Admin!

YOU made me laugh, too! I haven't had time enough to read all

the thread Robert is making those comments on, but as I read it

I have felt the need to write him personally as myself to point

out to him where I, myself think he's being insulting. In short,

I want to speak with him about how he comes across to me.

I can sense his prejudice about "the Foundation" and don't

want to stimulate ONE MORE GO-ROUND about THAT issue,

AND he really is funny, and has good comprehesion of the

UB. His points are mis-interpretted (through his own lack

of sensitivity, jumping topics and employing references

not previously introduced in the thread) BUT HE HAS

IMPROVED HUGELY SINCE I MET HIM ON THE OTHER

FOUDATION EMAIL LISTS YEARS AGO.

Thanks, Admin!!! -mod1Ellen

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Hello moderators,

 

robert is pushing his crap. See "Progress of civilization". I wrote a PM last night to U-rantian asking for his help with robert, since U-rantian thinks there is some hope for robert. I have just issued robert a warning. Here's the text of what I wrote just now:

 

The moderators have given robert far too much leeway in my opinion. My study group would tolerate this sort of person for about a month. We would see if he/she would be able to moderate tone and temper to fit in with the actual sharing of the reasonable back and forth discussion of the Urantia Book teachings and concepts. We would soon come to a group consensus based on the evidence of better behavior from the individual. We would hope such an individual would develop a respect for the trend within the group which is calm and reasonable discussion. (Actually there is quite a lot of laughing going on in our study group. Some of our members have a fabulous sense of humor!) The moderating team in this forum has been tolerant with robert for a very, very long time. They have been patient. I confess that I skip over his posts for the most part. It's hard for me to make sense of his shouting. In fact I can't make much sense of them at all. I am not attracted to his sort of expressions. He always want to fight, fight, fight. Isn't it easy to find fault everywhere you look in the world, everywhere you turn? Yes, it's easy. But the hard work is in the problem solving. This forum is not going to solve problems, neither personally nor in the arenas of politics or society. It's easy to point fingers. Some people just love to point fingers and have no other way of interacting with people. I don't know what motivates robert. We are intelligent people. Imperfect people.

 

I am asking the moderating team to begin a discussion about this issue concerning robert.

 

To robert: I am warning to you to curb your shouting and be mindful of the forum rules, or you will be suspended from this forum.

 

"FORUM RULES

 

"1. Civility. Dialogue is expected to be civil and respectful. Profanity is not permitted. Since we are communicating with diverse people of different cultural backgrounds, civility can be subjective and a common standard for civility may be difficult to define. However, if each forum member acts as a son or daughter of God, he/she will not present a problem to the forum moderators.

 

"2. Personal attacks. Attacks upon the character, personality, heritage, beliefs, motives, or actions of any persons are unacceptable.

 

"3. Group attacks. Attacks upon the purposes, policies, plans or procedures of any group or organization are unacceptable. . . .

>>>>snipped>>>> I copied all the rules for everyone to read.

 

So, I've given robert a warning. Any comments?

 

Meredith

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I have not had time lately to read the posts of Robert from Australia... always have had a hard time understanding them. He is a difficult person to deal with.

 

I received two Personal Messages from Rob Reno today, actually 3, the second he sent twice. What do you think?

Wondering whether we should call a vote on whether to suspend or ban Robert of Australia?

 

admin

 

 

 

PM 1

Dear Admin,

 

I had hoped that this would a place were intelligent discussion of the teachings of the Urantia Book could be carried out without the harassing of those who don't believe the book is what it claims to be or don't understand it but think they have all the answers, such as Robert continually shows in is arrogant and insulting posts.

 

For some reason, which I cannot understand, you have chosen to put aside the rules of civility when it comes to this individual. He continual distorts the meaning of questions and statements, interjecting and twisting the post to suit his need to dominate the thread, interjecting his pet political ax which he seeks to grind regardless of how it has no relation to the post in question.

 

In time, if you continue to allow him to do this, he will drive away more informed and intelligent posters that could make many positive contributions. You, and those who administer this forum have already tolerated his harassment of U-rantian to such an extent that I notice he no longer posts.

 

The science of Evolutionary Developmental Biology is a new field, and the science of biology is now in the middle of a scientific revolution that is going to rewrite our understanding of biology on a scale comporable to the discovery of the heliocentric universe or of Darwin himself. I know this because I have spent the last 15 years studying the field observing science coming around to information the revelators revealed in 1935. The field has finally reached the point where scientists in the field are openly stating that there is a deeper pattern to be found, that this new information is a direct challenge to the idea that evolution is not progressive and that it is directed soley by "random and chance" mutations. They are now discovering the deeper pattern that directs evolution and is not random.

 

This is not an easy thing to share, but I believe I have the ability to distill it so the average reader of the UB can grasp it and appreciate what is happening in the field today. And that is what I was going to attempt to do in the thread on biology. But if I must be harassed by this ignorant fool (and only a fool is as arrogant and rude as I have observed him on this forum) who is introducing pseudoscience and calling real science non-science than I would just as well delete the whole thread and simply publish the paper in another venue not subject to such debasing harassment.

 

Let me know which course I should take; I see you have already allowed him to silence the intelligent and thoughtful posts of fellow U-rantian, I wonder how many more will follow as he is continued to be allowed to dominate, and harass, and insult, and arrogantly posts rude rambling posts on this forum in disregard for its rules.

 

PM2

I have spent years and thousands of dollars to achieve an advanced degree of understanding of biology, molecular biology, genetics, evolutionary developmental biology, history of biology, philosophy of biology, all because the revelators have fortold were the field is going. And now, today, what they fortold is coming to fruit.

 

I thought this might be forum that would be a safe place to share this information. Clearly, if Robert is allowed to post as he does it is not.

 

It is information though that is relevant to the topic title under which it was posted, and which will be of interest to sincere readers who understand the book, as well as sincere scientists who can appreciate what the Urantia Book has said about these finds, much like McMenamin:

 

ftp://ftp.bizmota.com/bizmota.com/wegener...n/mcmenamin.pdf

 

Hello moderators,

 

robert is pushing his crap. See "Progress of civilization". I wrote a PM last night to U-rantian asking for his help with robert, since U-rantian thinks there is some hope for robert. I have just issued robert a warning. Here's the text of what I wrote just now:

 

The moderators have given robert far too much leeway in my opinion. My study group would tolerate this sort of person for about a month. We would see if he/she would be able to moderate tone and temper to fit in with the actual sharing of the reasonable back and forth discussion of the Urantia Book teachings and concepts. We would soon come to a group consensus based on the evidence of better behavior from the individual. We would hope such an individual would develop a respect for the trend within the group which is calm and reasonable discussion. (Actually there is quite a lot of laughing going on in our study group. Some of our members have a fabulous sense of humor!) The moderating team in this forum has been tolerant with robert for a very, very long time.

So, I've given robert a warning. Any comments?

 

Meredith

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My response to Rob Reno's PM's

 

Rob,

 

The forum staff is discussing this issue.

Thanks for your concern.

 

Are you a member of Urantia Association International? We are understaffed and are beginning to look for additional moderators.

 

admin

 

I have not had time lately to read the posts of Robert from Australia... always have had a hard time understanding them. He is a difficult person to deal with.

 

I received two Personal Messages from Rob Reno today, actually 3, the second he sent twice. What do you think?

Wondering whether we should call a vote on whether to suspend or ban Robert of Australia?

 

admin

 

 

 

PM 1

Dear Admin,

 

I had hoped that this would a place were intelligent discussion of the teachings of the Urantia Book could be carried out without the harassing of those who don't believe the book is what it claims to be or don't understand it but think they have all the answers, such as Robert continually shows in is arrogant and insulting posts.

 

For some reason, which I cannot understand, you have chosen to put aside the rules of civility when it comes to this individual. He continual distorts the meaning of questions and statements, interjecting and twisting the post to suit his need to dominate the thread, interjecting his pet political ax which he seeks to grind regardless of how it has no relation to the post in question.

 

In time, if you continue to allow him to do this, he will drive away more informed and intelligent posters that could make many positive contributions. You, and those who administer this forum have already tolerated his harassment of U-rantian to such an extent that I notice he no longer posts.

 

The science of Evolutionary Developmental Biology is a new field, and the science of biology is now in the middle of a scientific revolution that is going to rewrite our understanding of biology on a scale comporable to the discovery of the heliocentric universe or of Darwin himself. I know this because I have spent the last 15 years studying the field observing science coming around to information the revelators revealed in 1935. The field has finally reached the point where scientists in the field are openly stating that there is a deeper pattern to be found, that this new information is a direct challenge to the idea that evolution is not progressive and that it is directed soley by "random and chance" mutations. They are now discovering the deeper pattern that directs evolution and is not random.

 

This is not an easy thing to share, but I believe I have the ability to distill it so the average reader of the UB can grasp it and appreciate what is happening in the field today. And that is what I was going to attempt to do in the thread on biology. But if I must be harassed by this ignorant fool (and only a fool is as arrogant and rude as I have observed him on this forum) who is introducing pseudoscience and calling real science non-science than I would just as well delete the whole thread and simply publish the paper in another venue not subject to such debasing harassment.

 

Let me know which course I should take; I see you have already allowed him to silence the intelligent and thoughtful posts of fellow U-rantian, I wonder how many more will follow as he is continued to be allowed to dominate, and harass, and insult, and arrogantly posts rude rambling posts on this forum in disregard for its rules.

 

PM2

I have spent years and thousands of dollars to achieve an advanced degree of understanding of biology, molecular biology, genetics, evolutionary developmental biology, history of biology, philosophy of biology, all because the revelators have fortold were the field is going. And now, today, what they fortold is coming to fruit.

 

I thought this might be forum that would be a safe place to share this information. Clearly, if Robert is allowed to post as he does it is not.

 

It is information though that is relevant to the topic title under which it was posted, and which will be of interest to sincere readers who understand the book, as well as sincere scientists who can appreciate what the Urantia Book has said about these finds, much like McMenamin:

 

ftp://ftp.bizmota.com/bizmota.com/wegener...n/mcmenamin.pdf

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I see that robert has been suspended in the past. Was it 60 days? If so, I would vote to suspend him for 120 days, or something like that. Even terminate him permanently. He's out of control! He is spewing is venom again today, ignoring my warning to him. I don't think he cares. So maybe he's asking for this.

 

But some people (readers) are attracted to the adrenalin of reading highly charged and inflammatory remarks. It's like the attraction of driving slowly by a train wreck to see some gore. The rush of seeing the awfulness.

 

Yes. Terminate or suspend. Maybe he thinks we are powerless before him. I do not think he will self-correct. I say terminate!

 

Meredith

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admin,

 

I have a problem with Rob Reno being a moderator. He has some of his own agendas going on, and that thing with posting stuff from ubron about Ellen's posts there was weird and very improper, inappropriate to this forum. I question his judgment. And doesn't he have some problem with Rick from the past? Having all kinds of degrees does not impress me, if he does not have people skills. I question his people skills? I think Bill Martin is a better choice.

 

That's my 2 cents.

 

Meredith

 

My response to Rob Reno's PM's

 

Rob,

 

The forum staff is discussing this issue.

Thanks for your concern.

 

Are you a member of Urantia Association International? We are understaffed and are beginning to look for additional moderators.

 

admin

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I sent that PM to Rob Reno in a rush... probably to shut him up. I was getting ready for work--he is actually getting on my nerves.

 

We've had this problem before with the two of them... they took so much of our time that we thought of getting rid of them both. R Reno has this thing about him that likes to control and Robert of Australia does not like to be controlled. The two of them do not mix well in the same space. I would not mind it if he leaves the forum--Rob Reno. One less Rob to deal with. He is not a member of UAI anyway so he's not eligible to be a moderator.

 

Robert of Australia-- I don't usually read his posts (they are hard to understand) so I'm not too bothered by them.

So do any of you have any suggestions who to ask to be moderator? Bill Martin, who else? How about we try and shoot for 3 additional moderators?

 

Mario

 

 

admin,

 

I have a problem with Rob Reno being a moderator. He has some of his own agendas going on, and that thing with posting stuff from ubron about Ellen's posts there was weird and very improper, inappropriate to this forum. I question his judgment. And doesn't he have some problem with Rick from the past? Having all kinds of degrees does not impress me, if he does not have people skills. I question his people skills? I think Bill Martin is a better choice.

 

That's my 2 cents.

 

Meredith

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I just sent a PM to Bill Martin

 

Hi Bill,

 

We're looking for 1 to 3 additional moderators for the forum.

One of our moderators has to care for her mother who is ill.

Would you be interested in helping out?

 

admin/Mario

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Hi admin,

 

Sorry abut your nerves. Other than Rick who adds a post each day, I don't know who of the other moderators has been following along, regarding robert. Surely Rick is following along on the robert thread. I did see that mod-3 looked in when I wrote a PM to U-rantian about this issue previously. Anyhow, lines are being drawn in the sand regarding robert. Wow! He's getting a lot of attention today - PHIL approves of him and his style, Rob R. and Joe Dimaggio: No. And robert is just sitting back and watching the action. Maybe that's his gig. Attention. I say terminate him post haste. He is nothing but trouble. Rob R. has verbalized some well written arguments why we should remove robert, and possibly PHIL too! He's gotten a bit rabid!

 

Yes, let's find 2 or 3 additional moderators.

 

Meredith

 

I sent that PM to Rob Reno in a rush... probably to shut him up. I was getting ready for work--he is actually getting on my nerves.

 

We've had this problem before with the two of them... they took so much of our time that we thought of getting rid of them both. R Reno has this thing about him that likes to control and Robert of Australia does not like to be controlled. The two of them do not mix well in the same space. I would not mind it if he leaves the forum--Rob Reno. One less Rob to deal with. He is not a member of UAI anyway so he's not eligible to be a moderator.

 

Robert of Australia-- I don't usually read his posts (they are hard to understand) so I'm not too bothered by them.

So do any of you have any suggestions who to ask to be moderator? Bill Martin, who else? How about we try and shoot for 3 additional moderators?

 

Mario

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Guest U-rantian

Dear all

 

Meredith I saw your message. Very sorry guys, I hadn't log on for a couple of days I had sent my laptop to be repaired and I just got it today. Personally I thought that it was going to be quiet, I guess I was mistaken.

 

If Robert is causing so much trouble, let us suspend him even permanently if that is the case, I would go along with any decision, and I would ask to be into place immediately to bring order again.

 

Regarding to ask for more moderators, let us ask for more volunteers and see if they accept.

 

I will check that thread and see what I can do, but as I said for me let us suspend him immediately we can later discuss if it is permanently.

 

Regards

U-rantian

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Hi U-rantian, Fellow Mods,

 

Since Rob has left, shouldn't we now simply announce his departure, give an admonition about following Forum rules so we won't HAVE to enforce them, then wait and see?

 

Love, Rick

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Guest mod4

Dear Admin and all

 

I have checked the thread and Robert's posts, he started it all. As a moderator my vote is to suspend him immediately, even permanently.

 

If there was some willingness to babysit him that one is gone. Abuse to one is very different to abuse to everyone and everytime.

 

As for me Admin just proceed.

 

Happy Christmas to all ;)

M04

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Hi Rick, admin, U-rantian, mod-4,

 

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts. When admin has time, he can now proceed with an action re: robert.

 

About Rob R.: He has a short time span in his mind (I think) about the time the moderators should take in coming to decisions here. I got the feeling from his posts yesterday that he wanted to see us remove robert immediately!. To me his demand for immediate action is an annoying habit of his. He's impatient. So now, today, he has asked to be removed as a forum member. Now, he is taking all his toys and going back home. But Rob R. will be back again someday, because in spite of the fact that we are understaffed, the forum is a sane place to tap into.

 

Happy holidays,

Meredith

 

Hi U-rantian, Fellow Mods,

 

Since Rob has left, shouldn't we now simply announce his departure, give an admonition about following Forum rules so we won't HAVE to enforce them, then wait and see?

 

Love, Rick

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Hi to you all, Admin and Mods,

 

Mom is doing pretty well and i am home for a morning grappling with my

fussy weird computer enough to read up on the posts about Robert, Rob,

Phil, and found the topic "Progressive Civilization" that apparently is the

latest platform for controversy.

 

I read through it and conclude that while Robert is difficult to understand,

and he raises points people don't like, plus he writes too long...

 

whatever he said and does pales i-is nothing- n comparison to

the "ad hominum" diatribe launched by Rob Reno against him.

 

I agree with much of Phil's observations about the developments on the

thread, and i think it worth all moderator's time and energy to personally

ascertain what it is about Robert and Rob you like and dislike.

 

I find Rob Reno dictatorial, presumptuous, and would NEVER think of

him as a good moderator. I think Robert NEEDS to be told that he is

NOT being a good communicator when he alienates people and writes

too much material to follow.

 

I don't see and have the time to look whether Robert is spreading his comments

around the board or confining himself to one topic basically.

 

I am in favor of suspending him for 3 months due to the problems he

presents simply by being so hard to read that he causes confusion and

is read wrong by those who don't follow him. I do follow most of his logic

and agree with him on many points that seem to be going over people's

heads who can't understand him.

 

I think Phil is reading him right and his points about how to conduct

discussions on a forum dispassionately for their content rather than

focusing on style and delivery are valid.

 

By the way, while we are not here to discuss politics, the title and

focus of "progressive civilization" can not be separated from the

realities we deal with everyday.

 

Some how or another, we are in need of a section where people can

"have at it" to apply what they've learned from "The Urantia Book" to

daily life which includes politics, war, economics, etc. that we live with

all the time. How can we talk about practical application without using

realistic problems we face?

 

I suggest we call it

 

"World Affairs: enter at your own risk -- no whiners allowed"

 

mod1 -- Ellen

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Here is a note i just now sent to Robert:

 

"please beware", Today (WED-Dec 19th'07), 02:17 PM

 

Hi Robert,

 

I have been unable to participate lately due to illness in the

family, but looked in enough to see more controversy surrounding

you and Rob Reno again.

 

I happen to follow your logic and understand you, but MOST do NOT.

 

You write too long and cover too many thoughts to encourage people to

want to read your posts. I think they now are skimming looking for

objectionable material, and, you are in trouble -- I think they will

suspend you again ((even though I wrote in support of only a 3 month

suspension (rather than longer)) because there simply aren't enough

moderators to spend hours A DAY on you and Rob. People want

the participants of long standing to be thoughtful, considerate LEADERS

of decent discussions MINUS barbs and accusations.

 

(In my opinion your attacks on the Urantia Fouindation and the material

written by the Sadlers is ONE BIG FAT ugly CONTROVERSY that is TOO MUCH

for this fledgling place to handle in the midst of the HOLIDAY SEASON.)

 

Please! Give some thought to us, your family, and be a friend to us all.

If you are suspended, then, see you later on .... meanwhile try

www.ubron.org

for a place to have lots of arguments with people who enjoy it.

 

Have a warm wonderful holiday!

-mod1

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Re: Robert of Australia

Let's see...

 

mod4 and Meredith -- permanent suspension

Ellen/mod1-- let him stay, if to be suspended... for 3 months

Rick -- wait and see

 

 

We have a tie here.

I'm leaning towards Rick and Ellen's view, but my vote does not count. Phil presented what I thought is a good assessment of Robert's character. Most people find Robert of Australia difficult to understand and to deal with. If one can comprehend only a fraction of what he's saying, there is something there. He exhibits a crusty exterior-- underneath all that is a fellow human being. He contributes to the discussions. He's got a strange sense of humor. He is an outcast. He does not fit well in polite society. These are my impressions. I'd like to meet this guy in person. Several face to face meetings and conversations would be helpful. Although Robert's presence in the forum does not bother me, it bothers a number of people, and that (people's reactions) becomes a concern.

 

What we have here is a Urantia Book forum. We are not psychologists. Our, the forum staff's job is to provide a space where people can discuss the UB teachings. We can learn and grow and live the teachings hopefully as we perform our duties and participate in the discussions. The thing we don't have the luxury of is time, free time. We have eternity ahead of us but not on planet Earth.

 

I was gonna do a temporary suspension for one month, just to give us a breather, but because we have a tie, I'm sleeping on it for now.

Maybe Jorge or Nigel will break the tie for us...

 

Rob Reno who has been spearheading for Robert's removal is gone. That should help ease the tension.

The nagging, the pressure for us to act was coming principally from his corner. His departure is a relief.

The thing I liked about him was he could spot a TM'er a mile away.

 

This forum is a work in progress as we all are. I'm glad we do not all agree sometimes. Makes life a little more interesting.

 

admin

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Guest mod4

Dear Ellen

I hope your mom gets better also have a nice holiday.

 

Dear All

 

To the public post warning Robert he sent me the following.

 

democracy--or make it up as we go.., Yesterday, 08:31 AM

 

 

poster

 

 

Group: Members

Posts: 91

Member No.: 267

Joined: 2-March 07

 

 

 

must assume that 275 other votes may still have to be counted--or--hopefully as Mod4 there may be another three persons--who could overview that your observation--is greatly exaggerated.

 

suggest carolyn--if she is in the right frame of mind--will vouch for the invalidity of:

 

(i) the religionist/theological groups flimsy-- as of March approximately this year-- attempts at smeer, and baseless cases of ad hominem--surely the fact they wouldnt reply---as is the reno game-- WAKES YOU UP TO THOSE HERO TYPES.

 

(ii) NOTE your r.reno is attempting the exact same as the March gent--i disagreed with a post of his--[which i will cite 200 professors for my position]--and immediately his next post--is the ad hominem of personal sleight has taken place...

 

The same with the theological-agenda advocate from March--the question was "how may a comment" about a topic--be an ad hominem attack--reno as the earlier person--ALSO CANNOT PROVIDE the answer...

 

GREAT RULE that one:

The revelation and all its planning is about--theological science and/or r.renos MASTER TEACHINGS.

Mature readers cant indulge in such blatant FALSITY.

 

ALLOW ME to illustrate:--the Introduction[yes??] gives the aim of the mandate and revelators charter:

 

"within the human mind... and with the human soul the Spirit of Truth-- we... know that these spirit forces of the Divine Presence enable material man to grasp... AND [they] assist in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience--God-consciousness."

 

IS THERE ANYWHERE in that vast panorama--the mention of JESUS CHRIST??

 

but that is exactly what the religionists and the r.reno's type USURP as "fact"...[ie a re-instatment is 'continued fragrant abuse' in their lingo]--that is CORRUPT.

 

LET alone the REVELATORS intent--or at least-- that is how i might imagine Divine Presence might imply.

 

 

If you are a keen reader--and from memory you are learning along with others--AND THAT in itself--is the

INTRODUCTORY'S EXACT MEANING--there is no other--"enable material man" to enhance his or her personal religious experience.

 

 

DO you recall the worship quote:

 

 

QUOTE

When it is not possible to worship God in the tabernacles of nature, men should do their best to provide houses of beauty, sanctuaries of appealing simplicity and artistic embellishment, so that the highest of human emotions may be aroused in association with the intellectual approach to spiritual communion with God.

 

Truth, beauty, and holiness are powerful and effective aids to true worship.

 

But spirit communion is not promoted by mere massive ornateness and overmuch embellishment with man's elaborate and ostentatious art.

 

Beauty is most religious when it is most simple and naturelike.

 

How unfortunate that little children should have their first introduction to concepts of public worship in cold and barren rooms so devoid of the beauty appeal and so empty of all suggestion of good cheer and inspiring holiness!

 

The child should be introduced to worship in nature's outdoors and later accompany his parents to public houses of religious assembly which are at least as materially attractive and artistically beautiful as the home in which he is daily domiciled.

 

 

THE FORUM--with its Master Teacher 'gurus'--has become that cold and barren place--IT IS UNNATURAL--to be that convoluted and in UB usages mistaken about GOD...

 

If you care to note--Adelfo--may appear--at first reading to favour also the 'teachings' attitude--but if you follow his ideas--he then states very clearly--such is not the implied meaning of allow your own inner kingdom exploration--to guide you.

 

 

i was going on a xmas break--there are topics i would like to continue--but "why should we care if all earthly things collapse"--the UB never closes-- if my understanding of Spirit is remotely relatable.

 

You may be aware that SECTION 4--was published separately--if you care to consider how strong the forces for regression may be--then consider that offering as equalling GODHEAD.

 

You should of seen the crap they offloaded--on guess who of all persons-- THE TRUSTEE-- who just happened to also be Dr.Sadlers adopted daughter.

 

Great religions arent they...

mod1, Yesterday, 08:47 AM

 

 

poster

 

 

Group: Members

Posts: 91

Member No.: 267

Joined: 2-March 07

 

 

 

 

this[below] occurred quite soon [24 hours] after a so-called violation.

 

r.reno proposes it was evidence of continued poor behaviour.

 

mod 1 could read--

 

yours and r.reno's study would be what ??

 

 

 

You are RE-INSTATED!, Mar 25 2007, 06:13 AM

 

 

poster

**

 

Group: Moderators

Posts: 18

Member No.: 273

Joined: 17-March 07

 

 

 

 

Dear Robert,

 

As you may know, Urantia Book Forum is just beginning as

a resource for readers & scholars of The URANTIA Book

world-wide.

 

Your participation, while stimulating scrutiny

and communication among Moderators and Administration,

has resulted in the decision to re-instate you as ACTIVE.

 

We recommend that all participants read our guidelines,

and understand that violation will result in INactive status.

 

Welcome back!

 

Urantia Book Forum Staff

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Guest mod4

Dear Admin and all

 

I re-read the thread, since I suspected that I am biased against Robert ;) , hence I noticed that Robert is the usual self and that Rob Reno came openly to get him out using the rules stuff. Not a very nice move from Rob.

 

So, I changed my mind and I will ask you just to suspend him, not to delete him. Having read Phil's input and thinking over it, he is quite right in many points and that has helped me to change my mind towards Robert deletion.

 

I hope no more tensions to arise this Christmas I want to rest and get ready for the new year.

 

Happy Christmas to all

 

M04

(Regarding the time, that I leave up to you, three months is too long though)

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Hi Bill,

 

Welcome!

Your account has been temporarily upgraded to moderator. The Moderator Area and the Problem Posts section should now be visible to you as you log in. These areas are invisible to general members as well as UAI members.

 

I asked you if you would like to help us out as a moderator and the best way I thought you'd find out how the forum staff works is for you to have temporary access to the Moderator Area and Problem Posts section. You are not obliged to stay on.

 

The problem with the two Roberts, Robert of Oz and Rob Reno, goes a long way back. If you read the threads here you'll find that the forum staff have spent so many hours discussing these two. At this time I don't really feel like going into it. I am so tired of the whole thing, but let me try.

 

You have been closely following and participating in the discussions in the public forums. Rob Reno wanted for the forum staff to remove Robert of Oz. This is not the first time. He tried to do this another time long before you came into the forum. Robert was suspended temporarily at some point. Things quieted down for a long time until Rob's recent campaign for Robert's removal. Rob Reno asked for his account to be deleted, I suppose because we were too slow in doing what he wanted.

 

The Moderators are divided on this issue. Some are bothered more by Robert and others by Rob R. At some point I asked the Moderators to vote on whether to suspend Robert or not and I would execute their majority decision. The latest vote was 3 to 1 not to suspend him permanently. He is on temporary suspension until January 1, 2008.

 

You say "I am interested in the quality of intellectual and spiritual intercourse that takes place here, not quantity." So am I. My question is who gets to decide what is quality? Who gets to decide what is evil, what is wrong and what is right? I am hoping that the forum staff through discussion and their collective wisdom would find the best solution to problems that come up.

 

If you decide to become moderator, it is possible that the next time Robert of Oz becomes a problem from another one of his posts he will be permanently suspended. I would not mind that either. If he still cannot learn from his current temporary suspension, from Ellen's note to him, so be it.

I hope I answered some of your questions. I don't have all the answers-- that is for sure.

 

If you become officially a moderator the mod2 position is open-- used to be taken by Carlos Rubinsky... then Gary Powless who has not participated at all. My impression is you care about what happens in the forum. That is the main reason why I asked for your help to be a moderator. I hope you stay on.

 

admin/Mario

 

 

Dear Mario,

 

It appears that one of the most brilliant and active members on this board was just lost. I fear he left because he was upset that the moderators allowed consistently aggressive and abusive invective to go unchallenged and unchecked. Rob Reno awed me with his knowledge interlinking evolutionary and revelatory wisdom. His absence leaves a big void.

 

My question to you is what power to censor does a moderator have? Since justice is a function of the group, how does it work to suspend or remove someone? What is the process?

 

You said you were going to enable moderator functions so that I could have an overview of what's happening. As of this time that has not taken place, or I am too simple to understand.

 

 

As you have seen, I have tried to confront evil (error) head on as a participating member of the forum "from the trenches" as it were. I am not sure I will be able to speak out quite so freely as a moderator. I am interested in the quality of intellectual and spiritual intercourse that takes place here, not quantity.

 

Mario, mean people suck. I have been trying to enlighten them or fight their ignorance most of my life. It seems to me that Robert from OZ has some strange agenda ,as do so many. Is Robert somehow protected from the consequences of rude, agressive behaviour? Personally, I do not care to respond to him. If everyone refused to respond to his diatribes would the forum be a better place? I think the universal law of karma should have free play. Evil should be allowed free rein (as I believe we are still in rebellion down here) so that the potential for more good is allowed to develop. Yet the virus of prurient and unrestrained nationalism should not be allowed. Language designed to inflame, excite and offend needs to be curtailed.

 

Establish a section of the forum where politics is allowed if you must. Jesus had nothing to much to say about politics ,after his baptism especially. (Maybe establish a place for those souls who go crazy for the Urmia lectures.) Jesus definitely had "bigger fish to fry" (as we say here in the midwest.)

and was much more concerned with man's relationship with God than with the relations between groups and nations.

 

Please Mario answer my questions.

 

Yo soy un hombre sincero

 

Memo-Guillermo-bill

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Hello U-rantian,

 

i've been reading up (on my weird and funny looking computer screen)

and noticed your suggestion about filling positions of "moderator".

 

It occurred to me that we could all RECOMMEND to Admin and moderators,

names of people we know to have competence and experience of group

functioning (reference: Supreme Being) which demands

some tolerance and ability to appreciate each other, too.

 

I have a sister who can have a biting tongue, but has a heart of Goodness.

..quite a few sisters and brothers are such. But i KNOW she is FAIR! ..and

i know she is HONEST! ..with HERSELF and WITH ME and PEOPLE!

 

LISTENS as well as speak.

 

The other big consideration is INTERNET COMPETENCE.

 

use of our

resources from keyboard to Internet Update Possibilities.. -now

THERE'S an interesting FUNCTION for one of our areas here in the

Urantia Forum.. a place simply to post sources of the new tools, and

accessories for world communication at this time in history:

Communicator's Tool Kit

 

..beginning with rudimentary coaching to navigate this

website, utilize it's possibilities.

 

U-rantian! We talked about that last year, and you posted

some very good coaching. Since i never got around to consolidating

your insigthful posts into a cohesive "How to?" segment here under it's own topic,

maybe we could "aim" at doing that over the next while before

the Easter Season? At this time i don't remember which thread your posts were under,

and don't know how to leave this window to look around for it.

 

I hope you, and all of our family of Admin and Mods enjoy this holiDAY of our world!

 

-mod1Ellen

 

 

 

(edited -out- ~e)

 

... more moderators, let us ask for more volunteers and see if they accept ...

 

(edited -out- ~e)

 

Regards

U-rantian

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Guest U-rantian

Dear Ellen and all

I hope you had a good time in Christmas.

Regarding to the other moderator I see that Bill has entered to see how it works.

Welcome Bill I hope you like it and give us a hand.

 

About the "How to" I am afraid I haven't continued since that thread has been quiet. The new year is coming and we may put our priorities(potentials) in order so we can concentrate in actualizing them.

 

Happy New Year

U-rantian

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