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Does the Urantia Book take sin seriously?

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My wife and I got into a discussion in which she asked what incentive the Urantia Book gives for not sinning if it has no doctrine of hell. Many people seem to come to the Urantia Book as an escape from the rigid moralism in which they were raised, but the book itself does seem to take sin seriously.

 

 

Jesus never displayed intolerance to any person, but he was, "intolerant of sin. He was often mightily moved to resist that which was inimical to the welfare of his children on earth. But his indignation against sin never led to anger at the sinner." (1103)

 

In a similar vein Jesus said, "Tell my children that I am ruthless with sin and intolerant of iniquity. I am indeed meek and humble in the presence of my Father, but I am equally and relentlessly inexorable where there is deliberate evildoing and sinful rebellion against the will of my Father in heaven." (1766)

http://urantiabook.org/archive/newsletters/innerface/vol4_5/page10.html

 

Is personality extinction enough incentive for people not to sin? People might say to themselves, "If I'm just going to die anyway, why does it matter what I do?"

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hello,

 

it is possible to reject the Father. it is part of a free will thing. there are also personalities who get and past through Mansion worlds and they are disapointed whit what they get (work, work and work) and they decide to quit.

but waiting to be released as they never existed is real 'hell'.

i can't imagine to wait and do nothing for thousands of years.

peace

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As Jesus so capably and repeatedly taught, the reward for righteousness is or should be the motive for right "choosing"....to avoid punishment is the way of the animal kingdom, not the kingdom of God...oh and the way of most religions whose priesthoods thrives on the fear of punishment instead of the rewards for good choices and better priorities. TUB's beauty is this truth....we are loved by God and given the most precious of all gifts, free will - our only gift to Him - to ascend into glorious adventure! You need a punishment for sin? You think God is about such punishment? TUB tells a far different story and one that makes far more sense.....for Jesus was not butchered by His Father for our sins but, rather, He lived and died to show us freedom from such fears and the rewards of right living. This truth is clearly presented within the christian bible even by the very words of Jesus therein and made far more grand and complete within TUB. Sin is its own punishment, clearly, and only by the consequences of our choices can we make better ones, eh? Is God our loving Father as Jesus proclaimed? Or is he the monster preached by the Judaic and Paulinian priests? One must choose their truth too and live accordingly. But as the Master said, "Fear Not", God's love will prevail. Peace.

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46:8.4 There will come an end for rebels and rebellion. The Supreme Rulers are merciful and patient, but the law of deliberately nourished evil is universally and unerringly executed. “The wages of sin is death” — eternal obliteration.

 

53:9.8 But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth “that the way of the transgressor is hard”; “that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”; that “the wages of sin is death.”

 

WHY , seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness ?

Edited by Coop
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Love is what dominates the universe and mercy is applied love. God cannot be anything less than love, therefore I don't think he has anything to do evil, nor does he punish it. God simply does not recognize it as a reality. A soul which has completely identified itself with sin is an unreality. The less spiritual a person becomes, the more isolated and less real is his existence. Personalities cannot exist in isolation.

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My wife and I got into a discussion in which she asked what incentive the Urantia Book gives for not sinning if it has no doctrine of hell. Many people seem to come to the Urantia Book as an escape from the rigid moralism in which they were raised, but the book itself does seem to take sin seriously.

 

Is personality extinction enough incentive for people not to sin? People might say to themselves, "If I'm just going to die anyway, why does it matter what I do?"

 

Hi,

 

A couple of thoughts came to my mind pertaining to your post Howard. My first thought is the all familiar "You can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink." Then I thought of hunger, spiritual hunger, and remembered this reference:

 

The world is filled with hungry souls who famish in the very presence of the bread of life; men die searching for the very God who lives within them. Men seek for the treasures of the kingdom with yearning hearts and weary feet when they are all within the immediate grasp of living faith. Faith is to religion what sails are to a ship; it is an addition of power, not an added burden of life. There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt--unbelief.
P.1766 - §4

 

 

There is another reference I don't have time to find right now that says, in effect, why worry about what you shouldn't be doing (sin), but rather go out and do what is right. I'm sure Bonita can find it quickly.

 

All the best,

Meredith

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There is another reference I don't have time to find right now that says, in effect, why worry about what you shouldn't be doing (sin), but rather go out and do what is right. I'm sure Bonita can find it quickly.

 

I don't remember that quote. But, Jesus always taught the positive approach to living:

 

127:4.2 By the beginning of this year Jesus had fully won his mother to the acceptance of his methods of child training — the positive injunction to do good in the place of the older Jewish method of forbidding to do evil. In his home and throughout his public-teaching career Jesus invariably employed the positive form of exhortation. Always and everywhere did he say, “You shall do this — you ought to do that.” Never did he employ the negative mode of teaching derived from the ancient taboos. He refrained from placing emphasis on evil by forbidding it, while he exalted the good by commanding its performance. Prayer time in this household was the occasion for discussing anything and everything relating to the welfare of the family.

 

140:10.5 The golden rule as restated by Jesus demands active social contact; the older negative rule could be obeyed in isolation. Jesus stripped morality of all rules and ceremonies and elevated it to majestic levels of spiritual thinking and truly righteous living.

 

159:5.8 Jesus put the spirit of positive action into the passive doctrines of the Jewish religion. In the place of negative compliance with ceremonial requirements, Jesus enjoined the positive doing of that which his new religion required of those who accepted it. Jesus’ religion consisted not merely in believing, but in actually doing, those things which the gospel required. He did not teach that the essence of his religion consisted in social service, but rather that social service was one of the certain effects of the possession of the spirit of true religion.

 

Punishment and Hell are human inventions.

 

89:2.4 The habitual violation of a taboo became a vice; primitive law made vice a crime; religion made it a sin. Among the early tribes the violation of a taboo was a combined crime and sin. Community calamity was always regarded as punishment for tribal sin. To those who believed that prosperity and righteousness went together, the apparent prosperity of the wicked occasioned so much worry that it was necessary to invent hells for the punishment of taboo violators; the numbers of these places of future punishment have varied from one to five.

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Hmmm . . . . perhaps this is the quote Meredith was referring to?

 

188:4.10 Neither do genuine believers trouble themselves so much about the future punishment of sin. The real believer is only concerned about present separation from God. True, wise fathers may chasten their sons, but they do all this in love and for corrective purposes. They do not punish in anger, neither do they chastise in retribution.

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Hi,

 

Thanks Bonita. Those are good. I found the one I thought of from "You are the salt of the earth. . . .", as follows:

 

 

Strong characters are not derived from
not
doing wrong but rather from actually doing right. Unselfishness is the badge of human greatness. The highest levels of self-realization are attained by worship and service. The happy and effective person is
motivated, not by fear of wrongdoing, but by love of right doing.

 

 

P.1572 - §6 ; PAPER 140

 

 

All the best,

Meredith

Edited by Meredith Van Woert
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I would imagine the fear of extinction can be motivation at first, but at some point that fear has to transform into something else. :) I wouldn't doubt though if many beginning on their spiritual journey were jolted awake by a fear of extinction and decided to make a new path towards God.

 

I think those quotes you put out show an attitude towards sin, but we should remember our sins are not our personalitys, Jesus is not actually personally mad at you. You are not you're sins.

Edited by boomshuka
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I think those quotes you put out show an attitude towards sin, but we should remember our sins are not our personalitys, Jesus is not actually personally mad at you. You are not you're sins.

 

Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father's will.

 

Sin is the conscious, knowing, and deliberate transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Sin is the measure of unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed.

 

Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father's loving plan of personality survival and the Sons' merciful ministry of salvation.

 

Once you become conscious of choosing evil, it becomes sin. The fact that sin is conscious means that the personality has identified with it; therefore you are very much your sins because you have chosen them. That being said, God will never identify your personality with sin until that point when it has annihilated its identity by becoming personally unreal. Even when identity ceases to exist, personality continues on as part of the Supreme devoid of identity.

 

2:6.8 God loves the sinner and hates the sin: such a statement is true philosophically, but God is a transcendent personality, and persons can only love and hate other persons. Sin is not a person. God loves the sinner because he is a personality reality (potentially eternal), while towards sin God strikes no personal attitude, for sin is not a spiritual reality; it is not personal; therefore does only the justice of God take cognizance of its existence. The love of God saves the sinner; the law of God destroys the sin. This attitude of the divine nature would apparently change if the sinner finally identified himself wholly with sin just as the same mortal mind may also fully identify itself with the indwelling spirit Adjuster. Such a sin-identified mortal would then become wholly unspiritual in nature (and therefore personally unreal) and would experience eventual extinction of being. Unreality, even incompleteness of creature nature, cannot exist forever in a progressingly real and increasingly spiritual universe.

 

And Jesus does get annoyed with people who refuse to be divinely led and spiritually directed. He certainly does chastise when chastisement is called for. He did so when he walked this earth and he continues to do so even today. He calls himself the "New Teacher". Teachers have a way of letting you know when you're performance is "off". However, if you're in love with evil, chances are you're totally unaware of it.

 

158:7.5 After they had recovered from the first shock of Jesus’ stinging rebuke, and before they resumed their journey, the Master spoke further: “If any man would come after me, let him disregard himself, take up his responsibilities daily, and follow me.

158:7.8 In all the association of the twelve with their Master, only a few times did they see that flashing eye and hear such swift words of rebuke as were administered to Peter and the rest of them on this occasion.

162:0.2 But when Jesus heard these words of vengeance, he turned upon the sons of Zebedee and severely rebuked them: “You know not what manner of attitude you manifest.

164:1.4 Jesus not only confounded the dishonest lawyer, but he told his hearers a story which was at the same time a beautiful admonition to all his followers and a stunning rebuke to all Jews regarding their attitude toward the Samaritans.

175:4.2 The multitude who heard Jesus swing from his merciful appeal to the Jewish leaders into that sudden and scathing rebuke which bordered on ruthless denunciation, were stunned and bewildered.

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Posted Yesterday, 09:52 PM

Oh, thank you Alina...there is that which is deserving of rebuke!! The notion that anything goes is total nonsense....that tolerance is the rule is fictional and that falsehoods are to be patiently accepted is a form of misinformation or misunderstanding is also bunk. Jesus was often annoyed and impatient with the egotism of the apostles and their blindness to "The Kingdom of Heaven" at hand. The last supper and the Master's servitude is a definitive example of this lesson for us all. The "anything goes" or anything is "possible" nonsense some propose or suppose is not supported in any way by TUB. Thank you. Peace.

Edited by fanofVan
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Hello FanofVan !

 

I did not write in this topic, :) I do not quite understand what you mean. Could it be that you must respond in "If the Urantia Papers were of human origin .. " ?

There I wrote about the confusion that often arises relating to the origin "supposedly human" of Revelations.In this issue, I told something about the misconceptions, even with good intentions or without them on the philosophical material that "heavenly beings" used to illustrate the point Mota.

I also take to clarify something important, We must know all the history of Revelation, not to ignore the criticism that circulate there.

But I wanted meant that when a person is that in tune with the teachings of UB, the criticisms and doubts of others pass us by side, although we must be informed, obviously.

 

I do not know, but maybe the Moderators should move these messages to another topic?

Thanks!

 

Love...

 

Alina

***

Edited by Alina

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Sorry Alina - meant for Bonita's post. I am confused too by the notion that the Revelation doesn't take sin seriously. For sin is that which keeps us from the Father and prevents or retards our ascendency and ability to transcend materialism by our mind endowment to receive His rewards for right choosing and righteous living. The UB takes sin far more seriously than any religion I know of.....all of which teach it is our "nature" and the consequences for sin cannot be escaped except by sacrifices of animals, people, or gods, or gods children - literally or figuratively. We must transcend error and reject sin by mind and will and turn away from it to progress. How serious can it get? Peace.

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It is human to err, because we are finite and imperfect mortal beings on the road to prefection. In the following reference several items pop out for me:

 

 

The possibility of mistaken judgment (evil) becomes sin only when the human will consciously endorses and knowingly embraces a deliberate immoral judgment.
P.52 - §1

 

 

evil - a mistaken judgement

 

sin - the conscious, deliberate embrace of an immoral judgement

 

the actor - the human will

 

 

What's the diffrence between a mistaken judgement and an immoral judgement?

 

 

Peace,

Meredith

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I would imagine the fear of extinction can be motivation at first, but at some point that fear has to transform into something else. :) I wouldn't doubt though if many beginning on their spiritual journey were jolted awake by a fear of extinction and decided to make a new path towards God.

 

I think those quotes you put out show an attitude towards sin, but we should remember our sins are not our personalitys, Jesus is not actually personally mad at you. You are not you're sins.

.

 

Do most non-believers in an afterlife have a fear of personality extinction or do they live comfortably with the thought that nothingness alone awaits after death? I think that personality extinction might be incentive for someone who believes in God and wants to see him after death, but maybe not for someone who doesn't believe in God in the first place.

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The fact is that fear of punishment does not stop criminal behavior and neither does it cause ethical or moral behavior. Fear of loss, unfortunately, is a far greater motivator for many human decisions than hope of gain.....fear of losing face or affection or employment or money or whatever. This is a primitive and destructive force and is used by the priesthood to gain power over others....but it has never been used by God or by Jesus or any other spiritual beings. So called salvation is a license to sin for sin is "forgiven" and yet it is not. Its judgement is instant and so is its penalty for the person who commits knowing acts of evil (error made into sin) is dimminished thereby and moves further away from the truth, beauty, and goodness that the spirit led person grows to discern and appreciate and share and be grateful for to Him who created all that is true, beautiful, and good. Fear Not is the watchword Jesus gave to us....for what is there to fear? Fear is itself evil and can be sinful....to generate fear in others is pure iniquity....and woe unto those who employ it for their own advantage! Peace.

Edited by fanofVan
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What's the diffrence between a mistaken judgement and an immoral judgement?

 

Mistaken judgment is the result of immature choosing, it is not sin because it is not conscious and deliberate, it is merely an error of judgment due to lack of insight or inadequacies of education, intellect and culture.

 

In order to make an immoral judgment, one must first be a moral person. An immoral choice by a moral person would necessarily be deliberate and conscious, therefore not a mere mistake due to a lack of understanding.

 

195:7.13 It is also true that one must first be a moral person before one can perform immoral acts.

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Howard seems to be mixing many different issues into a single one and begins with a premise I don't buy at all...."many people seem to come to the book as an escape from rigid moralism.." is a sweeping indictment I have not found to be true in the past 40 years at all. Heck of a way to begin and no substantiation offered. TUB attracts a wide spectrum of truth seekers to be sure, including some of the most devout and moral and socially activated of all Urantians. It would be far more accurate to claim most seekers have abandoned the fear based hypocracies of institutionalized religion, rather than morality, in search of a more personal, real, and active truth. And they must work hard to find it in the Revelation....one cannot be lazy or morally indifferent and embrace the truths within TUB or the Truth of TUB either one.

 

And he appears to believe that fear of punishment is a good thing somehow, a social uplifter and moral boundry necesarry to extract good choices....clearly against TUB teachings to the contrary. These presentations infer a dissatisfaction with the truths presented....and on another thread, he is concerned about the source of TUB as well, showing much doubt as to its authenticity. The good news is that there is little that must be believed to survive and little that must be done to receive God's gentle mercies. But truly there is much to gain by growing in faith and acting in love and the more truth realized thereby, the more truth we will discover in the relationships, meanings, and values discerned in those faith acts. God speaks to each of us and the more we listen, the more He speaks. And while survival of the mortal experience does not carry a heavy burden of eligibility, ascendency and finaliter status have very heavy burdens of transformation and mind discipline and transcendence on the eternal adventure to come after....if one waits for "after". Believers are not waiting....we are changing and growing and becoming...and we live in the Kingdom here and now because we believe it is the Way given to us over 2000 years ago.

 

TUB does not speak to anyone. It is not God's voice. It can only inspire the mind to "hear" God's voice and the heart to feel His love. Whatever brings that inspiration is valid and true...or valid and true enough....to bring ascendent progress and soul content. Best wishes Howard in your quest for truth, beauty, and goodness....Peace.

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I believe that the Urantia Book, regardless of its authorship, integrates the best concepts of religion, science and philosophy that mankind has ever known. I also believe that, at least for me, personality extinction is an incentive for living a more righteous life, even though loss of fellowship with God in the present is an incentive as well.

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Well then, there is nothing to fear....

 

(1096.4) Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.

 

(1096.5) After such spiritual attainment, whether secured by gradual growth or specific crisis, there occurs a new orientation of personality as well as the development of a new standard of values. Such spirit-born individuals are so remotivated in life that they can calmly stand by while their fondest ambitions perish and their keenest hopes crash; they positively know that such catastrophes are but the redirecting cataclysms which wreck one’s temporal creations preliminary to the rearing of the more noble and enduring realities of a new and more sublime level of universe attainment.

 

(1443.2) “The man who knows God looks upon all men as equal; they are his brethren. Those who are selfish, those who ignore their brothers in the flesh, have only weariness as their reward. Those who love their fellows and who have pure hearts shall see God. God never forgets sincerity. He will guide the honest of heart into the truth, for God is truth.

 

(1443.3) “In your lives overthrow error and overcome evil by the love of the living truth. In all your relations with men do good for evil. The Lord God is merciful and loving; he is forgiving. Let us love God, for he first loved us. By God’s love and through his mercy we shall be saved. Poor men and rich men are brothers. God is their Father. The evil you would not have done you, do not to others.

 

(1443.4) “At all times call upon his name, and as you believe in his name, so shall your prayer be heard. What a great honor it is to worship the Most High! All the worlds and the universes worship the Most High. And with all your prayers give thanks — ascend to worship. Prayerful worship shuns evil and forbids sin. At all times let us praise the name of the Most High. The man who takes shelter in the Most High conceals his defects from the universe. When you stand before God with a clean heart, you become fearless of all creation. The Most High is like a loving father and mother; he really loves us, his children on earth. Our God will forgive us and guide our footsteps into the ways of salvation. He will take us by the hand and lead us to himself. God saves those who trust him; he does not compel man to serve his name.

 

(1443.5) “If the faith of the Most High has entered your heart, then shall you abide free from fear throughout all the days of your life. Fret not yourself because of the prosperity of the ungodly; fear not those who plot evil; let the soul turn away from sin and put your whole trust in the God of salvation. The weary soul of the wandering mortal finds eternal rest in the arms of the Most High; the wise man hungers for the divine embrace; the earth child longs for the security of the arms of the Universal Father. The noble man seeks for that high estate wherein the soul of the mortal blends with the spirit of the Supreme. God is just: What fruit we receive not from our plantings in this world we shall receive in the next.

 

Welcome to the vineyard Howard. Peace.

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I think Howard that many people start their journey with god because they are afraid of death and nothingness. I think the thought of eternal extinction definitely can be a wake-up call for alot of people.

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86:7.6 Primitive religion prepared the soil of the human mind, by the powerful and awesome force of false fear, for the bestowal of a bona fide spiritual force of supernatural origin, the Thought Adjuster. And the divine Adjusters have ever since labored to transmute God-fear into God-love. Evolution may be slow, but it is unerringly effective.

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Fear, of any kind is evil (or error of the ignorant mortal mind) but sin in the mind of the believer:

 

(1572.6) Strong characters are not derived from not doing wrong but rather from actually doing right. Unselfishness is the badge of human greatness. The highest levels of self-realization are attained by worship and service. The happy and effective person is motivated, not by fear of wrongdoing, but by love of right doing.

 

(1572.7) “By their fruits you shall know them.” Personality is basically changeless; that which changes — grows — is the moral character. The major error of modern religions is negativism. The tree which bears no fruit is “hewn down and cast into the fire.” Moral worth cannot be derived from mere repression — obeying the injunction “Thou shalt not.” Fear and shame are unworthy motivations for religious living. Religion is valid only when it reveals the fatherhood of God and enhances the brotherhood of men.

 

The merchants and priests of fear are unholy and iniquitous. Fear not for yourself and fear not for others....for fear is itself a doubt of God Himself and His Power and His Love. Fear destroys the person and society and progress in the Spirit. Fearlessness IS the WAY as shown and lived by Michael, Jesus of Urantia. Behold, the "new" and better way. Any who preach fear are liars and thieves and enemies of truth, beauty, goodness, and God. Do not be swayed by such infantile primitivism. We have known better for a very long time, eh? As Mr. Churchill said a few decades ago in the face of extermination, the only thing TO fear is fear itself (or was that Roosevelt?). Our fears destroy our will and our courage and our faith....it is evil and sinful and iniquitous, all. What can we accomplish or change with fear in our hearts? Courage my loving brothers and sisters, for we have all that is needed.....Light to destroy the shadows of fear. Peace.

Edited by fanofVan
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Fear is a human instinct. It's part of the fight or flight mechanism and was given to us to serve a purpose . . . material survival. Fear is definitely useful on the material level. It's also useful on the spiritual level because it leads to awe. It's the phenomenon of awe that often gets tangled up in the human mind with various emotions which then gets translated into meanings and values, and it's the translation or interpretation of those meanings and values which allow a human to either transcend the material level with respect and admiration, or get mired with fear, dread and anxiety.

 

The human mind is destined to discover that the fearful power that controls the outer world is also present within the inner world. Once the human mind discovers the power that lies within, fear leading to awe is a natural evolution. It's all the trappings of awe that confound us as we work through recognition and interpretation.

 

Fear of the power of God is inevitable, but Jesus came to help us work through the process of recognizing this power as the power of love living within us. His famous line was, and still is, "Fear not!" His Spirit of Truth is the Great Interpreter of the meanings and values provided by our beloved Thought Adjuster and it's up to us to arrest our emotional response of fear and allow him to translate them into reverent awe and worship (the humble adoration of a child/son). We do this by the ever progressing evolution of our recognition and interpretation of, as well as choosing to live the meanings and values we discover have been lovingly provided within our very own minds.

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