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Symmetry Of Soul Broadcast on Blog Talk Radio, just did a great past 2 show's on "Cosmic Mind" and that section in the book. I highly recomend listening, I get a strong sense the speaker "chris halvorson" experience's the cosmic mind daily etleat "IMO". that doesnt make him a priest hahah, but I think he gives a good study session on this topic.

 

 

Anyway's just go to the Blog Talk Radio website, and type in "Symmetry of soul" and you will find the 2 episodes in "archive".

Edited by boomshuka

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I just don't get this, not even a little bit. Precisely what is "minimal" about this concept of truth?

Acknowledged! Your strong position got me looking for another angle:

 

Putting side by side that species of truth which makes a "truth table" work, with the species made available by the Spirit of Truth [(1111.8) 101:6.4], they seem distinct. Add in boomshuka’s "cosmic intuitions" and the plot began to thicken.

 

Recall how the authors describe reality as partitioned (absolutely*) into 4 domains, and how each domain is managed by a characteristic gravity (material, mindal, spiritual, personal). In the Foreword, they state that three of these domains are illuminated by characteristic lights: material light, intellectual insight and spirit luminosity [(9.10) 0:6.8]. (I like to think of love as the light of the other domain.)

 

From this perspective, it seems reasonable that, along with a characteristic gravity and characteristic illumination, each domain would come equipped with a characteristic mode of verification, resonant with an intuition appropriate for navigating that domain. If so, we might need to distinguish truth, truth* and truth** .

 

Are we using one word (truth) for three distinct things?

 

My current (highly adjustable!) view now seems something like this: As persons, truths of the material domain can get us to a base camp, from where truths of the intellectual world can take us to some "full philosophic limit". And there, at the pinnacle of where mind can go, must we stop? Well, that Melchizedek says "Nope", revealing that there's something about us (as persons) that can "dare to launch" [(1141.5) 103:9.7] from such a summit into an entirely other domain, in the sole company of [that third species of truth].

 

Ok, that's my best shot. Please be gentle :)

Nigel

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Putting side by side that species of truth which makes a "truth table" work, with the species made available by the Spirit of Truth [(1111.8) 101:6.4], they seem distinct.

 

I don't think there's a special kind of truth for truth tables. Truth tables, after all, are just a technique for representing logical relations among various kinds of atomic and compound propositions. They have nothing at all to say about what makes those propositions true or false (with the exception of tautologies and logical contradictions). To repeat a point that I've made several times already, it's reality that makes propositions true or false. The actual facts of the matter--that's just a way of considering this or that bit of reality.

 

The Spirit of Truth, as understand it, is supposed to give us a kind of intuitive ability to "home in" on the truth, a kind of "truth compass", at least for those who are receptive to its influence.

 

Recall how the authors describe reality as partitioned (absolutely*) into 4 domains, and how each domain is managed by a characteristic gravity (material, mindal, spiritual, personal). In the Foreword, they state that three of these domains are illuminated by characteristic lights: material light, intellectual insight and spirit luminosity [(9.10) 0:6.8]. (I like to think of love as the light of the other domain.)

 

From this perspective, it seems reasonable that, along with a characteristic gravity and characteristic illumination, each domain would come equipped with a characteristic mode of verification, resonant with an intuition appropriate for navigating that domain. If so, we might need to distinguish truth, truth* and truth** .

 

Are we using one word (truth) for three distinct things?

 

Seems to me we only need one word, since truth is distinct from verification. Incidentally, what you've described here is very, very similar to the views of Ken Wilber, who also talks about different levels of reality, each requiring different methods to find and verify truth.

 

Somewhere or other, in this thread or another, Bonita pointed out that knowledge entails validation. But what counts as validation is not the same in all domains. Truth itself, however, is constant. Truth is getting reality right. How we do so, and know that we've done so, is not constant.

 

My current (highly adjustable!) view now seems something like this: As persons, truths of the material domain can get us to a base camp, from where truths of the intellectual world can take us to some "full philosophic limit". And there, at the pinnacle of where mind can go, must we stop? Well, that Melchizedek says "Nope", revealing that there's something about us (as persons) that can "dare to launch" [(1141.5) 103:9.7] from such a summit into an entirely other domain, in the sole company of [that third species of truth].

 

Ok, that's my best shot. Please be gentle :)

Nigel

 

That doesn't sound too bad to me. This notion of a "full philosophic limit", or stopping point, sounds eerily like a...how to put it...critique of pure reason?

 

Wittgenstein famously said, "The limits of language are the limits of my world." In saying that, however, he certainly did not mean the limits of reality. By "my world" he meant the set of propositions that he (and we) can actually make sense of, but he did not pretend that those propositions actually exhaust reality. Reality overflows language. Of course, languages themselves vary in what they can represent. The limits of our language are not the limits of any possible language, so there can be and no doubt are truths that can only be stated in some higher language, with a richer set of concepts. But even in that language, truth would still be getting reality right.

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...The limits of our language are not the limits of any possible language, so there can be and no doubt are truths that can only be stated in some higher language, with a richer set of concepts. But even in that language, truth would still be getting reality right.

 

 

But, but Todd,

 

Reality is the tail, truth is the dog. "Reality" may or may not imply personal values, truth always does.

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But, but Todd,

 

Reality is the tail, truth is the dog. "Reality" may or may not imply personal values, truth always does.

 

'Tis the other way around, Rick. The truth depends upon what's real. What's real is what makes truth true. Moreover, some truth, such as mathematical truth, doesn't imply personal values. "There's no highest prime number" is truth, regardless of whether anyone thinks it's important.

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'Tis the other way around, Rick. The truth depends upon what's real. What's real is what makes truth true. Moreover, some truth, such as mathematical truth, doesn't imply personal values. "There's no highest prime number" is truth, regardless of whether anyone thinks it's important.

 

Herein lies the rub, an' that's the truth :)

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The Adjuster is man's compass.

 

107:0.6 The Adjuster is man’s infallible cosmic compass, always and unerringly pointing the soul Godward.

 

The Spirit of Truth is not an intuition. Intuition is a function of mind. There are multiple levels of intuition, beginning with the lower material level adjutant mind spirit of intuition all the way up to higher level of spiritual intuition. Spiritual intuition is a combined function of the cosmic mind and the Thought Adjuster. The Spirit of Truth is not a function of mind although he functions within the arena of mind, particularly the soul. The Spirit of Truth enables a believing person to grasp and understand, to know the reality of spiritual values within the context of that person's life, hence the meaning of living truth.

 

101:3.2 Faith-insight, or spiritual intuition, is the endowment of the cosmic mind in association with the Thought Adjuster, which is the Father’s gift to man. Spiritual reason, soul intelligence, is the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the Creative Spirit’s gift to man. Spiritual philosophy, the
wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of Truth
, the combined gift of the bestowal Sons to the children of men. And the co-ordination and interassociation of these spirit endowments constitute man a spirit personality in potential destiny.

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'Tis the other way around, Rick. The truth depends upon what's real. What's real is what makes truth true. Moreover, some truth, such as mathematical truth, doesn't imply personal values. "There's no highest prime number" is truth, regardless of whether anyone thinks it's important.

 

WRONG

 

Truth is the revelation of reality.

 

56:10.20 To finite man truth, beauty, and goodness embrace the full revelation of divinity reality. As this love-comprehension of Deity finds spiritual expression in the lives of God-knowing mortals, there are yielded the fruits of divinity: intellectual peace, social progress, moral satisfaction, spiritual joy, and cosmic wisdom. The advanced mortals on a world in the seventh stage of light and life have learned that love is the greatest thing in the universe — and they know that God is love.
Edited by Bonita

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WRONG

 

Truth is the revelation of reality.

 

Not wrong then. Because truth is the revelation of reality, to use your expression, truth depends upon reality, else there would be nothing to reveal.

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The Spirit of Truth is not an intuition. Intuition is a function of mind. There are multiple levels of intuition, beginning with the lower material level adjutant mind spirit of intuition all the way up to higher level of spiritual intuition. Spiritual intuition is a combined function of the cosmic mind and the Thought Adjuster. The Spirit of Truth is not a function of mind although he functions within the arena of mind, particularly the soul. The Spirit of Truth enables a believing person to grasp and understand, to know the reality of spiritual values within the context of that person's life, hence the meaning of living truth.

 

This sounds right to me, although "not a function of mind" but "functioning within the arena of mind" sounds like a distinction without a difference.

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Todd, you wrote: "The truth depends upon what's real."

 

Truth is not conditioned by reality. Truth is a spiritual reality. Truth reveals reality to us as we are capable of perceiving it. That's what makes it living.

 

195:5.2 Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed.
Living truth teaches the truth seeker aright only when it is embraced in wholeness and as a living spiritual reality, not as a fact of material science or an inspiration of intervening art.

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Todd, you wrote: "The truth depends upon what's real."

 

Truth is not conditioned by reality. Truth is a spiritual reality. Truth reveals reality to us as we are capable of perceiving it. That's what makes it living.

 

I'm not sure what it might mean to say that truth is "conditioned by" reality, nor why you chose to address that point. As you say, truth reveals reality, and not just spiritual reality. In order for truth to reveal anything at all, there must something there for it to reveal, and that's why truth is dependent upon reality.

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Not if truth is an actual element of reality itself. Reality is self-revelatory in the form of truth. Reality is expanding towards self-realization. Truth reveals the relation between reality and the self/personality allowing realization to take place. Truth is a manifestation of reality itself. The personality is becoming reality by embracing its/his revelation. It sounds circular, because it is.

 

196:3.2 There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and relation. The religious consciousness identifies these realities as science, philosophy, and truth. Philosophy would be inclined to view these activities as reason, wisdom, and faith — physical reality, intellectual reality, and spiritual reality. We are in the habit of designating these realities as thing, meaning, and value.

 

196:3.3 The progressive comprehension of reality is the equivalent of approaching God. The finding of God, the consciousness of identity with reality, is the equivalent of the experiencing of self-completion — self-entirety, self-totality. The experiencing of total reality is the full realization of God, the finality of the God-knowing experience.

 

16:6.10 Stated otherwise, the recognition of the reality of these three manifestations of the Infinite is by a cosmic technique of self-revelation.

 

56:10.20 To finite man truth, beauty, and goodness embrace the full revelation of divinity reality.

 

106:8.12 The association of these three Trinities in the Trinity of Trinities provides for a possible unlimited integration of reality. This grouping contains causes, intermediates, and finals; inceptors, realizers, and consummators; beginnings, existences, and destinies. The Father-Son partnership has become Son-Spirit and then Spirit-Supreme and on to Supreme-Ultimate and Ultimate-Absolute, even to Absolute and Father-Infinite — the completion of the
cycle of reality
. Likewise, in other phases not so immediately concerned with divinity and personality, does the First Great Source and Center
self-realize the limitlessness of reality around the circle of eternity, from the absoluteness of self-existence, through the endlessness of self-revelation, to the finality of self-realization
— from the absolute of existentials to the finality of experientials.

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Not if truth is an actual element of reality itself.

 

Yes, truth is an element of reality that is a revelation of all elements. That circularity is not vicious, merely recursive. But truth, though itself real, still depends upon the rest of reality. Truth can be self-revelatory only because it is other-revelatory.

 

But the passage you just quoted sheds some light on the matter...at least the first sentence does.

 

 

196:3.2 There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and relation. The religious consciousness identifies these realities as science, philosophy, and truth. Philosophy would be inclined to view these activities as reason, wisdom, and faith — physical reality, intellectual reality, and spiritual reality. We are in the habit of designating these realities as thing, meaning, and value.

 

That first sentence sets out the ontology of the UB. Three elements in universal reality. Just three. Truth is not in the list. Why not? Because truth is a relation between fact and idea! Science deals with causal relations among facts. Philosophy deals with logical relations among ideas.

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Todd, did you read the rest of the quote? The three elements of reality are fact, idea and relation, identified by the religious consciousness as science, philosophy and truth. Truth is on the list:

 

fact=science=reason=physical reality=THING

idea=philosophy=wisdom=intellectual reality=MEANING

relation=truth=faith=spiritual reality=VALUE

 

It all depends on what level you are viewing these elements of reality. I think it's necessary to view all levels as unified in order to truly experience reality. (at least the reality we are capable of experiencing on our level of existence)

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Todd, did you read the rest of the quote? The three elements of reality are fact, idea and relation, identified by the religious consciousness as science, philosophy and truth. Truth is on the list:

 

Yes, I read it all. The three elements are the ontology; the UB is, for once, crystal clear. How the religious consciousness identifies them doesn't add to the ontology. It only describes an interpretation of the ontology. In fact, three interpretations are offered, but the UB unambiguously specifies fact, idea, and relation as the ontology.

 

That the religious consciousness identifies the third element, relation, as truth, is interesting, since truth is indeed a relation (as I've pointed out a few times in this thread). But of course it's not the only relation there is.

 

fact=science=reason=physical reality=THING

idea=philosophy=wisdom=intellectual reality=MEANING

relation=truth=faith=spiritual reality=VALUE

 

I'm not sure what you're doing here. What are all these equal signs supposed to mean? They can't mean identity so what are they about?

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Ah Todd, you make a good case: "recognition of reality relationships" -- from relationships embedded in the material domain, all the way to that particular truth that makes us free: " [...] the believing recognition of the truth that you are his son." [(1590.5) 141:4.2]. As persons, this relationship Jesus revealed becomes the crucial personal truth, a relationship made accessible, and thus recognizable, by the TA and SoT:

 

[the crucial personal truth] is made accessible to the wisdom-endowed individual by the bestowal on such a mind

of the spirits of the Father and the Sons, the Thought Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth."

To Todd and Bonita: your discussion may be the most interesting exploration of truth this planet has seen for some time!

 

Splendid stuff,

Nigel

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I'm not sure what you're doing here. What are all these equal signs supposed to mean? They can't mean identity so what are they about?

 

If you read the quote, the revelators are equating relation with truth on the religious level, with faith or spiritual reality on the philosophical level, and with value on the revelatory (spiritual/morontial) level. The word "identifies" is used to mean "recognize".

 

196:3.2 There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and
relation
. The religious consciousness identifies these realities as science, philosophy, and
truth
. Philosophy would be inclined to view these activities as reason, wisdom, and
faith
— physical reality, intellectual reality, and s
piritual reality
. We are in the habit of designating these realities as thing, meaning, and
value
.

 

So, on the physical level one recognizes the element of reality "relation", on the religious level one recognizes "relation" as truth. Likewise, on the philosophical level one recognizes "relation" as faith/spiritual reality, while on the spiritual/morontia level one recognizes "relation" as value.

 

One recognizes reality according to the level of mind one is operating in. On each level reality is recognized differently but the goal is unification and elevation of thought to spirit levels. Here are other quotes about thing, meaning and value:

 

9:4.5 Cosmic force responds to mind even as cosmic mind responds to spirit. Spirit is divine purpose, and spirit mind is divine purpose in action.
Energy is thing, mind is meaning, spirit is value
. Even in time and space, mind establishes those relative relationships between energy and spirit which are suggestive of mutual kinship in eternity.

 

102:2.5 The mind perspective will not yield the existential unity of the source of reality, the First Source and Center, but it can and sometime will portray to man the experiential synthesis of energy, mind, and spirit in and as the Supreme Being. But mind can never succeed in this
unification of the diversity of reality
unless such
mind is firmly aware of material things, intellectual meanings, and spiritual values; only in the harmony of the triunity of functional reality is there unity,
and only in unity is there the personality satisfaction of the realization of cosmic constancy and consistency.

 

You might wonder why truth is so low on the list, at the religious level rather than the spiritual level of value. Truth is a value on the religious level, just as relation is a value on the physical (unspiritual intellect) level. The recognition of reality flows in both directions, spiritual to material, material to spiritual (God to man and man to God). The goal is unification of recognition of reality on all levels. Truth, therefore, is relation applied to life from a religious perspective. Once recognized, it functions as faith and evolves to a spiritual reality as one progresses in reality recognition (psychic circles).

 

5:4.2 Sooner or later, God is destined to be comprehended as the reality of values, the substance of meanings, and the life of truth.

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If you read the quote, the revelators are equating relation with truth on the religious level, with faith or spiritual reality on the philosophical level, and with value on the revelatory (spiritual/morontial) level. The word "identifies" is used to mean "recognize".

 

196:3.2 There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and
relation
. The religious consciousness identifies these realities as science, philosophy, and
truth
. Philosophy would be inclined to view these activities as reason, wisdom, and
faith
— physical reality, intellectual reality, and s
piritual reality
. We are in the habit of designating these realities as thing, meaning, and
value
.

 

I'm not sure just who is supposed to be in the habit of designating these realities in this way. Do you read this passage as saying that facts are physical things?

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Fact is a thing and thing is material.

 

103:9.6 Reason introduces man to the world of
facts, to things
; wisdom introduces him to a world of truth, to relationships; faith initiates him into a world of divinity, spiritual experience.

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Fact is a thing and thing is material.

 

103:9.6 Reason introduces man to the world of
facts, to things
; wisdom introduces him to a world of truth, to relationships; faith initiates him into a world of divinity, spiritual experience.

 

I'm not convinced that you're interpreting the UB correctly. I'm certain, however, that the view that facts are things and things are material is utterly muddled. I guess one way to begin to respond is to use some quotations that you've posted recently:

 

6.6.3 The
fact
of the cosmic mind explains the kinship of various types of human and superhuman minds.

 

If facts are things and things are material, then the cosmic mind is a material thing.

 

303:05 Worship is the highest privilege and the first duty of all created intelligences. Worship is the conscious and joyous act of recognizing and acknowledging the
truth and fact
of the intimate and personal relationships of the Creators with their creatures.

 

If facts are things and things are material, then the intimate and personal relationships of the Creators with their creatures are material things.

 

3:4.6 Mortal man cannot possibly know the infinitude of the heavenly Father. Finite mind cannot think through such an absolute
truth or fact
.

 

If facts are things and things are material, then the infinitude of the heavenly Father is a material thing.

 

Whatever the word "fact" might mean in the UB--and I hope it's not another hijacked word--I think these passages are sufficient to demonstrate that it does not mean material thing. I guess there's no point going any further if we can't agree on this much.

 

Edit: One more quotation:

 

3:1.11 The
fact
of God’s presence in creature minds is determined by whether or not they are indwelt by Father fragments, such as the Mystery Monitors, but his effective presence is determined by the degree of co-operation accorded these indwelling Adjusters by the minds of their sojourn.

 

Same inference: If facts are things and things are material, then God's presence in creature minds is a material thing.

Edited by Todd

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Well seeing as we are giving huge summary's of u.b concepts I figured I would throw a long winded sumary in the mix hahaha.

 

Mind dominates matter. Plants and animals are engaged by the lowest form of mind "mechanical mind" which regulates physical system's and is nonteachable energy. In addition to nonteachable mind animals also have "teachable mind" -Adjutant mind-. enricuitment with the first 5 is what animals are capable of. 6 is "Superanimal" or "subhuman". 7 is a human who is -minded-.

 

Spirit dominates mind and adds a new type of -potential- to the energy system "progressability". The foundation of a "progressive" spirit system in human beings is the "holly spirit". It is the direct personal ministry of the Creative mother spirit. "local universe of Nebadon". Direct encuircitment with the creative mother spirit is when a human mind gains direct acess to the 3 Cosmic Intuition's. This "reality response" takes over the mind adjutant's.

 

Personality can dominate spirit and mind.

 

All reality is mind made. And our world is under the control of diety. Jesus said " I admonish you that these scribes and phraisee's still sit in Mose's seat, and therefor, until the most high's who rule in the kingdoms of men shall finally overthrow this nation and destroy the place of these rulers I bid you co-operate with these elders in Israel." (175:1.8)

 

"The rule of the most high's, the overcontrolers of political evolution, is a rule disigned to foster the greatest good for the greatest number of men for the greatest length of time" (134:5.4)

 

Our world has been in the care of a Vorondadek. The father rules threw his son's. "he moves and sets up kings' "the Most Highs rule in the kingdoms of men" 3:5.2

Edited by boomshuka

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Same inference: If facts are things and things are material, then God's presence in creature minds is a material thing.

 

God is material. He is also is spiritual, mindal, personality and much, much more. I think he's everything, last I checked. I think you are overlooking the fact that we are talking about three elements of reality that are identified on three levels of realization. Facts are realization of reality on the material level (thing). But there is a higher realization of fact known as truth (meaning) and an even higher realization of truth recognized as relation to spiritual realities (value).

 

12:9.3 Mathematics, material science, is indispensable to the intelligent discussion of the material aspects of the universe, but such knowledge is not necessarily a part of
the higher realization of truth or of the personal appreciation of spiritual realities
. Not only in the realms of life but even in the world of physical energy, the sum of two or more things is very often something more than, or something different from, the predictable additive consequences of such unions. The entire science of mathematics, the whole domain of philosophy, the highest physics or chemistry, could not predict or know that the union of two gaseous hydrogen atoms with one gaseous oxygen atom would result in a new and qualitatively superadditive substance — liquid water. The understanding knowledge of this one physiochemical phenomenon should have prevented the development of materialistic philosophy and mechanistic cosmology.

 

The quote in question (see below) discusses recognition, consciousness, or viewpoint. The recognition of fact is a material phenomenon, viewed on the material level as science, physical reality or THING. Once you recognize God as an intellectual reality, he is more than a fact; he is identified or recognized as an idea which has MEANING. If an individual is able to recognize God as a relation, connected to himself, he becomes truth, a spiritual reality known as VALUE.

 

196:3.2 There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and relation. The religious consciousness identifies these realities as science, philosophy, and truth. Philosophy would be inclined to view these activities as reason, wisdom, and faith — physical reality, intellectual reality, and spiritual reality. We are in the habit of designating these realities as thing, meaning, and value.

 

5:5.11 God-consciousness, as it is experienced by an evolving mortal of the realms, must consist of three varying factors,
three differential levels of reality realization
. There is first the mind consciousness — the comprehension of the
idea
of God. Then follows the soul consciousness — the realization of the ideal of God. Last, dawns the spirit consciousness — the realization of the
spirit reality
of God. By the unification of these factors of the divine realization, no matter how incomplete, the mortal personality at all times overspreads all conscious levels with a realization of the personality of God. In those mortals who have attained the Corps of the Finality all this will in time lead to the realization of the supremacy of God and may subsequently eventuate in the realization of the ultimacy of God, some phase of the absonite superconsciousness of the Paradise Father.

 

When we ascertain fact with our material mind, it is a material event. The fact of the Father's presence is then merely a thing; it has no meaning. Once the Father's presence has meaning to the intellect, he is more than a fact, he becomes a philosophical idea. The recognition of the relation of the Father's presence as relevant to one's personal life as a matter of faith, is VALUE. It's a matter of higher recognition, realization and appreciation of the Father's presence, moving from mere fact to actual relation; from thing to value. The quote asks us to consider the triunity of all three elements of reality on all three levels of realization.

 

102:2.5
Even the discoveries of science are not truly real in the consciousness of human experience until they are unraveled and correlated, until their relevant facts actually become meaning through encircuitment in the thought streams of mind.
Mortal man views even his physical environment from the mind level, from the perspective of its psychological registry. It is not, therefore, strange that man should place a highly unified interpretation upon the universe and then seek to identify this energy unity of his science with the spirit unity of his religious experience. Mind is unity; mortal consciousness lives on the mind level and perceives the universal realities through the eyes of the mind endowment. The mind perspective will not yield the existential unity of the source of reality, the First Source and Center, but it can and sometime will portray to man the experiential synthesis of energy, mind, and spirit in and as the Supreme Being.
But mind can never succeed in this unification of the diversity of reality unless such mind is firmly aware of material things, intellectual meanings, and spiritual values; only in the harmony of the triunity of functional reality is there unity, and only in unity is there the personality satisfaction of the realization of cosmic constancy and consistency.

 

101:5.9
Scientists assemble facts, philosophers co-ordinate ideas
, while prophets exalt ideals. Feeling and emotion are invariable concomitants of religion, but they are not religion. Religion may be the feeling of experience, but it is hardly the experience of feeling. Neither logic (rationalization) nor emotion (feeling) is essentially a part of religious experience, although both may variously be associated with the exercise of faith in the furtherance of spiritual insight into reality, all according to the status and temperamental tendency of the individual mind.

 

102:3.11 Science indicates Deity as a fact; philosophy presents the idea of an Absolute; religion envisions God as a loving spiritual personality. Revelation affirms the unity of the fact of Deity, the idea of the Absolute, and the spiritual personality of God and, further, presents this concept as our Father —
the universal fact of existence, the eternal idea of mind, and the infinite spirit of life.

 

fact ⇄ science ⇄ reason ⇄ physical reality (energy) ⇄ thing

 

TAKING THE FACT OF GOD'S PRESENCE AND MOVING TO THE NEXT LEVEL OF RECOGNITION

 

idea ⇄ philosophy ⇄ wisdom ⇄ intellectual reality (mind) ⇄ meaning

 

TAKING THE IDEA OF GOD'S PRESENCE AND MOVING TO THE NEXT LEVEL OF RECOGNITION

 

relation ⇄ truth ⇄ faith ⇄ spiritual reality ⇄ value

 

AT EACH LEVEL AND WITHIN EACH GROUPING ARE ADDITIONAL WAYS OF VIEWING EACH ELEMENT OF REALITY: RELIGIOUSLY, PHILOSOPHICALLY AND REVELATORY.

 

9:4.5 Energy is thing, mind is meaning, spirit is value.

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I guess it's hopeless. It would take me hours to try to sort through what you have written and try to attach some semblance of meaning to it. And what would be accomplished? I can't tell whether the difficulty is in the UB itself or your interpretation of it,, or some combination of the two. What I've learned is that when the meaning of fairly simple terms like "fact" and "material thing" are lost in a semantic fog, further communication is impossible. Too much of the time, I simply have no idea what you're talking about. That's my problem, not yours. All I'm accomplishing is boring everybody to tears, and probably annoying them in the process. Since the rest of you seem to be able to understand each other, I'll conclude that it's my thinking that's defective.

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Bonita is hitting stride with whats in the U.B pretty accurately to be honest.

 

What is layed out in the u.b is Extremely complex and complicated. In the u.b's viewpoint the universe is extremely complex and at the same time it is all apart of the "whole" with god.

 

Mathematics, material science, is indispensable to the intelligent discussion of the material aspects of the universe, but such knowledge is not necessarily a part of the higher realization of truth or of the personal appreciation of spiritual realities. Not only in the realms of life but even in the world of physical energy, the sum of two or more things is very often something more than, or something different from, the predictable additive consequences of such unions. The entire science of mathematics, the whole domain of philosophy, the highest physics or chemistry, could not predict or know that the union of two gaseous hydrogen atoms with one gaseous oxygen atom would result in a new and qualitatively superadditive substance--liquid water. The understanding knowledge of this one physiochemical phenomenon should have prevented the development of materialistic philosophy and mechanistic cosmology. ~ The Urantia Book, (12:9.3)

 

 

Part of the difficulty is that once the reader understands that material matter is not inherent in the universe and that it comes from creative mind and that creative mind and all reality "physical as well" comes from god, you can begin to understand other parts of the book. Lucifer struggled to see this basic reality and this was one of the base points of his rebellion. Lucifer believed that matter just "was". These issue's though are fairly easy to get past though for mortals because of there material mind will place intertia on our error's so that we cannot go into the deep end to much, and the thought adjuster and spirit of truth can help make sense of all of this.

 

The trouble is even material matter is linked to creative mind and this mind is linked to personality, even on urantia. Simply put this is all extremely complex, even what we originaly thought was not complex.

Edited by boomshuka

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