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Is it even true?

 

We're back to defining truth, no? I say it's fact, you ask if it's true. What is truth, and what is true? All I can gather in the UPs declares that REAL truth is always relative to, and associated with, the First Source and Center. It suffers dilution, even concretization and death as descent is made from Paradise levels of divine and living truth, to the lowest level of possible recognition--humanity. Genuine TRUTH is a value level apparently.

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Excellent points Meredith. Here's another quote:

 

101:4.3  Truth is
always
a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.

 

Is the geographical position of the government of the people inhabiting the land currently known as France a revelation from God?

 

No. It's a human construction of people who are growing and moving forward by the increase of scientific pursuits leading to more knowledge; they are growing in their wisdom of true philosophy; and they are growing in their realization of reality values - truth - as people come to have the religious experience of spiritual living.

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We're back to defining truth, no? I say it's fact, you ask if it's true. What is truth, and what is true? All I can gather in the UPs declares that REAL truth is always relative to, and associated with, the First Source and Center. It suffers dilution, even concretization and death as descent is made from Paradise levels of divine and living truth, to the lowest level of possible recognition--humanity. Genuine TRUTH is a value level apparently.

 

You see, I find all of this pretty disturbing. Truth isn't, or shouldn't be, an obscure concept. Granted, in casual speech we often use words, well, casually, but a little reflection ought to be adequate to sort things out. The words "true" and "truth" have been around a long time. They carry a pretty definite meaning. The UB's way of using "truth" generates obscurity, for no good reason that I can make out.

 

"Paris is the capital of France."

 

That's a proposition, yes? Propositions may be true or false.

 

Facts are states of affairs, or ways the world is. It's a fact that Paris is the capital of France. That fact makes the proposition true. That is, the proposition (a linguistic entity) is true because it's a fact that Paris is the capital of France. The proposition isn't the fact; it states the fact.

 

I don't think I've said anything here that is even remotely difficult, or deep, or tricky.

 

But because the UB wants to do other things with the word "truth", we now have perfectly intelligent people saying bizarre things. To say that the proposition "Paris is the capital of France" is a fact but not a truth is bizarre. Or to say, as Bonita did, that "true" and "truth" aren't the same, is apparently to be committed to the equally bizarre view that "Paris is the capital of France" is true but not a truth! Or that it's neither truth nor error!

 

This is just about the point where somebody chimes in and says, "This is all just semantics." Well, indeed it is, but words are the tools that we have for expressing meanings, and when words are hijacked, as the UB does with "truth", the result is obscurity. I find that disturbing.

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Anyway's these quotes should clarify.....

 

 

130:4.9 Only in degree does man possess mind above the animal level aside from the higher and quasi-spiritual ministrations of intellect. Therefore animals (not having worship and wisdom) cannot experience superconsciousness, consciousness of consciousness. The animal mind is only conscious of the objective universe
.

 

130:4.10 Knowledge is the sphere of the material or fact-discerning mind. Truth is the domain of the spiritually endowed intellect that is conscious of knowing God. Knowledge is demonstrable; truth is experienced. Knowledge is a possession of the mind; truth an experience of the soul, the progressing self. Knowledge is a function of the nonspiritual level; truth is a phase of the mind-spirit level of the universes. The eye of the material mind perceives a world of factual knowledge; the eye of the spiritualized intellect discerns a world of true values. These two views, synchronized and harmonized, reveal the world of reality, wherein wisdom interprets the phenomena of the universe in terms of progressive personal experience.
130:4.11 Error (evil) is the penalty of imperfection. The qualities of imperfection or facts of misadaptation are disclosed on the material level by critical observation and by scientific analysis; on the moral level, by human experience. The presence of evil constitutes proof of the inaccuracies of mind and the immaturity of the evolving self. Evil is, therefore, also a measure of imperfection in universe interpretation. The possibility of making mistakes is inherent in the acquisition of wisdom, the scheme of progressing from the partial and temporal to the complete and eternal, from the relative and imperfect to the final and perfected. Error is the shadow of relative incompleteness which must of necessity fall across man’s ascending universe path to Paradise perfection. Error (evil) is not an actual universe quality; it is simply the observation of a relativity in the relatedness of the imperfection of the incomplete finite to the ascending levels of the Supreme and Ultimate.

 

130:4.2 The source of universe reality is the Infinite. The material things of finite creation are the time-space repercussions of the Paradise Pattern and the Universal Mind of the eternal God. Causation in the physical world, self-consciousness in the intellectual world, and progressing selfhood in the spirit world—these realities, projected on a universal scale, combined in eternal relatedness, and experienced with perfection of quality and divinity of value—constitute the reality of the Supreme. But in an ever-changing universe the Original Personality of causation, intelligence, and spirit experience is changeless, absolute. All things, even in an eternal universe of limitless values and divine qualities, may, and oftentimes do, change except the Absolutes and that which has attained the physical status, intellectual embrace, or spiritual identity which is absolute.

 

130:4.7 Life is an adaptation of the original cosmic causation to the demands and possibilities of universe situations, and it comes into being by the action of the Universal Mind and the activation of the spirit spark of the God who is spirit. The meaning of life is its adaptability; the value of life is its progressability—even to the heights of God-consciousness.
Edited by boomshuka

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All I can say is that to a person without spiritual insight, truth most certainly would appear to have been hijacked.

 

The God-knowing individual is constantly elevating wisdom to the living-truth levels of divine attainment; the spiritually unprogressive soul is all the while dragging the living truth down to the dead levels of wisdom and to the domain of mere exalted knowledge. p1949

 

I don't think it's possible to have spiritual insight if one believes that nothing is or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena (definition of agnosticism per Oxford American Dictionary).

 

The cosmic intuition of worship, the reality response of recognition of personal fellowship with divinity, is necessary for the comprehension of the value of truth. Otherwise, functioning with only the ability for mathematical and judicial cosmic discrimination, things and meanings are all that a person can comprehend as being real. The full meaning of the word "truth" would certainly seem to be obscure under those circumstances.

 

1. Causation—the reality domain of the physical senses, the scientific realms of logical uniformity, the differentiation of the factual and the nonfactual, reflective conclusions based on cosmic response. This is the mathematical form of the cosmic discrimination.

2. Duty—the reality domain of morals in the philosophic realm, the arena of reason, the recognition of relative right and wrong. This is the judicial form of the cosmic discrimination.

3. Worship—the spiritual domain of the reality of religious experience, the personal realization of divine fellowship, the recognition of spirit values, the assurance of eternal survival, the ascent from the status of servants of God to the joy and liberty of the sons of God. This is the highest insight of the cosmic mind, the reverential and worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination. (p192:2-4 16:6.6-8)

 

I've always assumed that spiritual insight can develop in everyone unless they are specifically recalcitrant. TUB tells us that the experience of living never fails to develop the three cosmic intuitions, but it also says that they are manifested by a technique of self-revelation. That means that I can never convince another person of the spiritual reality of truth that exists in addition to the mathematical and judicial forms of truth. This must be done via self-revelation. For some, epochal revelation is a springboard to personal revelation in that it encourages creative, spiritualized thinking.

 

16:6.10 Stated otherwise, the recognition of the reality of these three manifestations of the Infinite is by a cosmic technique of self-revelation. Matter-energy is recognized by the mathematical logic of the senses; mind-reason intuitively knows its moral duty; spirit-faith (worship) is the religion of the reality of spiritual experience. These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions.

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Facts are aspects of reality. Truths are about facts.

[...]

You see, I find all of this pretty disturbing. Truth isn't, or shouldn't be, an obscure concept. Granted, in casual speech we often use words, well, casually, but a little reflection ought to be adequate to sort things out. The words "true" and "truth" have been around a long time. They carry a pretty definite meaning. The UB's way of using "truth" generates obscurity, for no good reason that I can make out.

Instead of introducing a term with no cultural momentum, it looks like the authors choose to amplify one of our most powerful existing concepts. Love gets a similar makeover: while some (mainly retarded males) confuse love with sex, the UB amplifies our word love to imply the gravity of the First Source and Center, or even the energy of the personality circuit. This nicely distinguishes it from the biochemistry of sex. Which brings us back to Truth*.

 

Finding truth tables juxtaposed with the Spirit of Truth prompts me to look more closely at those three "cosmic intuitions". Immediately I bump into the most radical revelation in these papers: that when viewed from any sub-absolute frame, reality is partitioned into four absolutely distinct domains. Something called Paradise* manages something we can recognize as the finite parts of a more than finite "material" domain. Something called the "Third Source and Center" manages something utterly and absolutely distinct, a part of which what we might recognize as mindal. Something they call the "Second Source and Center" manages what they call a spiritual domain, which we can either experience within or apply the technique of faith. Then there is one to rule them all: a "First Source and Center" ruling a universe of universes by the compelling power of something they call Love*.

 

The authors of the Urantia papers bring Love* and Truth* center stage. Reflect for a moment about even our colloquial conceptions of these. Is there anything else a person would consider dying for? Or living for? Love* and Truth*, however they are defined, are the two things that parents, martyrs and heroes famously live and die for.

 

But parents, martyrs and heroes are all persons. Science and philosophy like to have motivation too. So it's understandable that both science and philosophy have incorporated (hijacked?) the concept of truth. All well and good: they introduce a notion of verification, veracity, verifiability, a flavour of truth to their enterprise.

 

Reading this carefully, it does not say that the "reality response" endows will creatures with the ability to bypass the normal operations of the intellect in all things. It is a "sensitivity" to "certain phases of reality" only, namely the "supermaterial" ones. So, the general idea, as I understand it, is that the Reality Response enables us (will creatures) to be sensitive to supermaterial realities, and this response, when it operates, would tend to give us the sense that our usual assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion, are incomplete. That is, the Reality Response gives us an intuition that something more is going on.

 

Believe it or not, I find this to be entirely consistent with my experience too.

Me too. And thanks to you and boomshuka, I can enjoy (for now) seeing this as recognizing an echo of those cosmic discriminations in each of their absolutely distinct domains of applicability. That sentient agents can access compass-like intuitions enabling appropriate operations in each domain seems, well, a good thing.

 

Nigel

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TUB tells us that the experience of living never fails to develop the three cosmic intuitions, but it also says that they are manifested by a technique of self-revelation"

 

The "experience of living" is given its own interpretation in TUB as well .

"there are so few professed follower's of jesus who really live."

 

Those who are really "living" the U.B attributes to them as 2nd miler's....."there are so few second milers"...So it would seem you have to be a 2nd miler to be considered "LIVING" and hence you have to be "living" to have the 3 cosmic intuitions.

 

TUB is literlaly saying there are few people who actually live, and that these people who are living are experiencing "free service and liberty love devotion". It would also seem that this mode of living is impossible to actually attain without the 3 cosmic intuition's "

and it is these 3 cosmic intuition's that give objective validity, reality, to man's experience in and with things, meanings and value's
.

 

It would appear that there are few mortals who "really live" and there are few mortals who really "think". hahahah. For the most part it seem's like most of us "me included" are just functioning on the animal plane of existance. Of coarse it would also appear that if I take the revelation of these cosmic intuition's seriously that I will have a self-revelation where I will discover these intuition's and be able to uitilize them. One startling thing I noticed in that one senctence is that it say's these 3 cosmic intuition's give REALITY to mans experience. hahahah thats a pretty BOLD statement!!!

 

 

(IMO) The question is are you really "ALIVE" hahahah and are you actually "REAL", someone who is a 2nd miler using the 3 cosmic intuition's is apparently the begining human form of someone who is "ALIVE" and "REAL".....Or are you like me a person functioning on the animal plane with Faith that he can discover the 3 cosmic intuition's and spiritualize his mind threw being a 2nd miler....(IMO) It would seem that this is the potential mortal path that is open to everyone. B

Edited by boomshuka

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All I can say is that to a person without spiritual insight, truth most certainly would appear to have been hijacked.

 

I don't think this has anything to do with spiritual insight, or the lack of it. It's about not sacrificing the expressive power of language by pointlessly distorting the meanings of key words.

 

I don't think it's possible to have spiritual insight if one believes that nothing is or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena (definition of agnosticism per Oxford American Dictionary).

 

Get a better dictionary. Agnosticism isn't the same as materialism, but you'd never know it by that definition.

 

The cosmic intuition of worship, the reality response of recognition of personal fellowship with divinity, is necessary for the comprehension of the value of truth. Otherwise, functioning with only the ability for mathematical and judicial cosmic discrimination, things and meanings are all that a person can comprehend as being real. The full meaning of the word "truth" would certainly seem to be obscure under those circumstances.

 

Mathematical and judicial? What do they have to do with it? Truth is truth, regardless of subject matter. There isn't one truth for talking about God and another for talking about Paris.

 

 

I've always assumed that spiritual insight can develop in everyone unless they are specifically recalcitrant. TUB tells us that the experience of living never fails to develop the three cosmic intuitions, but it also says that they are manifested by a technique of self-revelation. That means that I can never convince another person of the spiritual reality of truth that exists in addition to the mathematical and judicial forms of truth. This must be done via self-revelation. For some, epochal revelation is a springboard to personal revelation in that it encourages creative, spiritualized thinking.

 

I had the intuition of worship as a child, I think, but it's hard to remember. But that was a long time ago. In any case, I don't doubt the reality of truth. I just don't accept the arbitrary distortion of its meaning.

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Knowledge is the sphere of the material or fact-discerning mind.Truth is the domain of the spiritually endowed intellect that is conscious of knowing God.

 

It would seem as though Knowledge gained from experience is the highest a animal or human functioning on animal levels can achieve in terms of quality of thought. Truth in the UB's eyes seems to only be experienced threw a spiritualized intellect. While the combination of these 2 viewpoint's constitute the viewing of Reality.

These two views, synchronized and harmonized, reveal the world of reality

 

Again it seem's that for humans to experience truth we have to be functioning with the 3 cosmic intuition's or else we will only be using the mind adjutants in the same exact way a animal use's them. They won't actually be "the spirit of..."

 

(IMO) A mind does not become "spiritually endowed" untill it is utilizing the 3 cosmic intuitions.

Edited by boomshuka

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(IMO) A mind does not become "spiritually endowed" untill it is utilizing the 3 cosmic intuitions.

 

TUB says that spiritually endowed means having a Thought Adjuster. A mind does not become spiritually endowed until it has a Thought Adjuster bestowed on it. It is the Thought Adjuster who augments the higher functioning of the cosmic mind.

 

101:3.2 Faith-insight, or spiritual intuition, is the endowment of the cosmic mind in association with the Thought Adjuster, which is the Father’s gift to man. Spiritual reason, soul intelligence, is the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the Creative Spirit’s gift to man. Spiritual philosophy, the wisdom of spirit realities, is the endowment of the Spirit of Truth, the combined gift of the bestowal Sons to the children of men. And the co-ordination and interassociation of these spirit endowments constitute man a spirit personality in potential destiny.

 

5:1.6 If mortal man is wholeheartedly spiritually motivated, unreservedly consecrated to the doing of the Father’s will, then, since he is so certainly and so effectively spiritually endowed by the indwelling and divine Adjuster, there cannot fail to materialize in that individual’s experience the sublime consciousness of knowing God and the supernal assurance of surviving for the purpose of finding God by the progressive experience of becoming more and more like him.

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That isn't the context though that I took those 2 words from. I took them from the paragraph above which included this sentence.

the eye of the spiritualized intellect discerns a world of true values.

 

Here is the actual sentence. I should have said "spiritually indowed intellect".

 

Truth is the domain of the spiritually endowed intellect that is conscious of knowing God.

 

To re-phrase. A spiritualized intellect IMO does not happen without the 3 cosmic intuition's.lol while an endowment of the spiritual thought adjuster happens to everyone..hahah..there that should clear that up.

Edited by boomshuka

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....I just don't accept the arbitrary distortion of its meaning.

 

 

The authors are correcting a distortion is a better interpretation imo. Truth had a vague and amorphous meaning before the clarification of revelation. Man can now begin to grasp the crucial difference between facts and truth. Cosmic truth, divine truth, meaningful truth, needed an updated definition in order to allow the human mind more room to expand beyond the limited, arbitrary and sloppy meaning that word/symbol has always confined us to. What you call distortion I think of as an improvement, a noetic nudge toward the greatest reality--God, who is unqualified, unbound and living Truth.

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Thank you so much, Rick, for valiantly defending truth. There is nothing arbitrary at all about the love involved in producing over two thousand pages in an attempt to reveal the value of truth to the lowly human mind. Only blinding pride, a complete lack of humility, can prevent a man from appreciating such generosity; for it is the comprehension of truth that sets a man free from himself. I pity the man imprisoned by his own unspiritual intellect.

 

194.2.2  The first mission of this spirit is, of course, to foster and personalize truth, for it is the comprehension of truth that constitutes the highest form of human liberty.

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The authors are correcting a distortion is a better interpretation imo. Truth had a vague and amorphous meaning before the clarification of revelation. Man can now begin to grasp the crucial difference between facts and truth. Cosmic truth, divine truth, meaningful truth, needed an updated definition in order to allow the human mind more room to expand beyond the limited, arbitrary and sloppy meaning that word/symbol has always confined us to.

 

The distinction between truth and fact has been clear for centuries. It's simply not the distinction that the UB makes. It's not nebulous or materialistic or anti-spiritual or any such canard. The UB, in contrast, generates obscurity around it.

 

"Water boils at 100* C." That's a true proposition, a truth. What makes it true? The way the world is, the physical fact that water is the way it is.

 

"God indwells the minds of mortal will-creatures on Urantia." Setting aside my doubts, let's say that's true. What makes it true? The way God is, the spiritual facts about God.

 

Facts aren't limited to the physical, unless the physical is all there is, which I don't believe and I doubt anyone else here does either. Facts are simply aspects of what is real, at any and all levels of reality. Truth is the expression of any of those facts from the most mundane to the most spiritual. To "distinguish" btw truth and fact the way the UB does is damage both concepts, making them obscure and far less useful.

 

What you call distortion I think of as an improvement, a noetic nudge toward the greatest reality--God, who is unqualified, unbound and living Truth.

 

Living reality is a far, far better way to express it, using the resources of the language as it is. It doesn't need to be "reformed" for this.

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Thank you so much, Rick, for valiantly defending truth. There is nothing arbitrary at all about the love involved in producing over two thousand pages in an attempt to reveal the value of truth to the lowly human mind. Only blinding pride, a complete lack of humility, can prevent a man from appreciating such generosity; for it is the comprehension of truth that sets a man free from himself. I pity the man imprisoned by his own unspiritual intellect.

 

194.2.2  The first mission of this spirit is, of course, to foster and personalize truth, for it is the comprehension of truth that constitutes the highest form of human liberty.

 

I think some people who have trouble with certain words in the UB are not unlike some of the people who had trouble with the words of Jesus. Remember the frustration of Jesus when his apostles misinterpreted him by their propensity to understand Jesus' words literally? For example:

 

P. 1605 - §2
"Thomas, Thomas, how long before you will acquire the ability to listen with the ear of the spirit? How long will it be before you discern that this kingdom is a spiritual kingdom, and that my Father is also a spiritual being? Do you not understand that I am teaching you as spiritual children in the spirit family of heaven, of which the fatherhead is an infinite and eternal spirit? Will you not allow me to use the earth family as an illustration of divine relationships without so literally applying my teaching to material affairs? In your minds cannot you separate the spiritual realities of the kingdom from the material, social, economic, and political problems of the age? When I speak the language of the spirit, why do you insist on translating my meaning into the language of the flesh just because I presume to employ commonplace and literal relationships for purposes of illustration? My children, I implore that you cease to apply the teaching of the kingdom of the spirit to the sordid affairs of slavery, poverty, houses, and lands, and to the material problems of human equity and justice. These temporal matters are the concern of the men of this world, and while in a way they affect all men, you have been called to represent me in the world, even as I represent my Father. You are spiritual ambassadors of a spiritual kingdom, special representatives of the spirit Father. By this time it should be possible for me to instruct you as full-grown men of the spirit kingdom. Must I ever address you only as children? Will you never grow up in spirit perception? Nevertheless, I love you and will bear with you, even to the very end of our association in the flesh. And even then shall my spirit go before you into all the world."

 

 

 

And:

 

P. 1949 - §7
The golden rule, when divested of the superhuman insight of the Spirit of Truth, becomes nothing more than a rule of high ethical conduct. The golden rule, when literally interpreted, may become the instrument of great offense to one's fellows. Without a spiritual discernment of the golden rule of wisdom you might reason that, since you are desirous that all men speak the full and frank truth of their minds to you, you should therefore fully and frankly speak the full thought of your mind to your fellow beings. Such an unspiritual interpretation of the golden rule might result in untold unhappiness and no end of sorrow.

 

All the best,

Meredith

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Todd: Truth is the expression of any of those facts from the most mundane to the most spiritual.

 

Is that what truth is??...hmmm that seems more like theory. Nobody actually know's what truth is even in the philosophical world they debate about it all the time. The Truth is very few people actually claim's to know what truth mean's. lol.

 

The expression of facts is knowledge.

 

Knowledge is the sphere of the material or fact-discerning mind.

The eye of the material mind perceives a world of factual knowledge; the eye of the spiritualized intellect discerns a world

of true values. These two views, synchronized and harmonized, reveal the world of reality,

wherein wisdom interprets the phenomena of the universe in terms of progressive personal experience.

 

The Fact of Human Experience.

102:4.2 What is human experience? It is simply any interplay between an active and questioning self and any other active and external reality. The mass of experience is determined by depth of concept plus totality of recognition of the reality of the external. The motion of experience equals the force of expectant imagination plus the keenness of the sensory discovery of the external qualities of contacted reality. The fact of experience is found in self-consciousness plus other-existences—other-thingness, other-mindness, and other-spiritness.

102:4.3 Man very early becomes conscious that he is not alone in the world or the universe. There develops a natural spontaneous self-consciousness of other-mindness in the environment of selfhood. Faith translates this natural experience into religion, the recognition of God as the reality—source, nature, and destiny—of other-mindness. But such a knowledge of God is ever and always a reality of personal experience. If God were not a personality, he could not become a living part of the real religious experience of a human personality.

 

 

 

102:3.5 Science, knowledge, leads to fact consciousness; religion, experience, leads to value consciousness; philosophy, wisdom, leads to co-ordinate consciousness; revelation (the substitute for morontia mota) leads to the consciousness of true reality; while the co-ordination of the consciousness of fact, value, and true reality constitutes awareness of personality reality, maximum of being, together with the belief in the possibility of the survival of that very personality.

102:3.6 Knowledge leads to placing men, to originating social strata and castes. Religion leads to serving men, thus creating ethics and altruism. Wisdom leads to the higher and better fellowship of both ideas and one's fellows. Revelation liberates men and starts them out on the eternal adventure.

102:3.7 Science sorts men; religion loves men, even as yourself; wisdom does justice to differing men; but revelation glorifies man and discloses his capacity for partnership with God.

102:3.8 Science vainly strives to create the brotherhood of culture; religion brings into being the brotherhood of the spirit. Philosophy strives for the brotherhood of wisdom; revelation portrays the eternal brotherhood, the Paradise Corps of the Finality.

102:3.9 Knowledge yields pride in the fact of personality; wisdom is the consciousness of the meaning of personality; religion is the experience of cognizance of the value of personality; revelation is the assurance of personality survival.

102:3.10 Science seeks to identify, analyze, and classify the segmented parts of the limitless cosmos. Religion grasps the idea-of-the-whole, the entire cosmos. Philosophy attempts the identification of the material segments of science with the spiritual-insight concept of the whole. Wherein philosophy fails in this attempt, revelation succeeds, affirming that the cosmic circle is universal, eternal, absolute, and infinite. This cosmos of the Infinite I AM is therefore endless, limitless, and all-inclusive—timeless, spaceless, and unqualified. And we bear testimony that the Infinite I AM is also the Father of Michael of Nebadon and the God of human salvation.

102:3.11 Science indicates Deity as a fact; philosophy presents the idea of an Absolute; religion envisions God as a loving spiritual personality. Revelation affirms the unity of the fact of Deity, the idea of the Absolute, and the spiritual personality of God and, further, presents this concept as our Father—the universal fact of existence, the eternal idea of mind, and the infinite spirit of life.

102:3.12 The pursuit of knowledge constitutes science; the search for wisdom is philosophy; the love for God is religion; the hunger for truth is a revelation. But it is the indwelling Thought Adjuster that attaches the feeling of reality to man's spiritual insight into the cosmos.

102:3.13 In science, the idea precedes the expression of its realization; in religion, the experience of realization precedes the expression of the idea. There is a vast difference between the evolutionary will-to-believe and the product of enlightened reason, religious insight, and revelation—the will that believes. 102:3.14 In evolution, religion often leads to man's creating his concepts of God; revelation exhibits the phenomenon of God's evolving man himself, while in the earth life of Christ Michael we behold the phenomenon of God's revealing himself to man. Evolution tends to make God manlike; revelation tends to make man Godlike.

102:3.15 Science is only satisfied with first causes, religion with supreme personality, and philosophy with unity. Revelation affirms that these three are one, and that all are good. The eternal real is the good of the universe and not the time illusions of space evil. In the spiritual experience of all personalities, always is it true that the real is the good and the good is the real.

Edited by boomshuka

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Thanks Boom. This is what I've attempted to explain about the personal religious experience of truth so many times. Of course, the revelators always do a much, much better job.

 

In science, the idea precedes the expression of its realization; in religion, the experience of realization precedes the expression of the idea.

 

And that's precisely why it can't be explained or described without introducing an element of mystery; human words do not necessarily apply. It also means that the experience of realization comes from some "other-mindedness" than one's own. The inability to experience that "other-mindedness" within one's own mind-arena is definitely a handicap when attempting to understand the description of things divine. Words used to describe it will not suffice unless the other person has had a similar experience. To demand that the description of a religious experience conform to the dictates of common human language is ridiculous when it is clear that it comes from another place altogether. This fact should create a state of humility in a human mind rather than presumptuous criticism about something one knows nothing of.

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Yea |Bonita paper 102 is a goldmind. I use it all the time.

 

The Fact of Human Experience is a paper that I think would blow alot of people away if they took the revelation seriously.

 

102:4.2 What is human experience? It is simply any interplay between an active and questioning self and any other active and external reality. The mass of experience is determined by depth of concept plus totality of recognition of the reality of the external. The motion of experience equals the force of expectant imagination plus the keenness of the sensory discovery of the external qualities of contacted reality. The fact of experience is found in self-consciousness plus other-existences—other-thingness, other-mindness, and other-spiritness.

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I think some people who have trouble with certain words in the UB are not unlike some of the people who had trouble with the words of Jesus. Remember the frustration of Jesus when his apostles misinterpreted him by their propensity to understand Jesus' words literally?

 

Absolutely, I remember. I don't know how he tolerated it. It's no wonder he went to the hills and mountains so often. The man must have been exhausted by it all.

 

But don't you think it absolutely ugly to claim you want to study truth and then go about saying the most disrespectful and denigrating things about it? It shows a total lack of honesty, in my opinion. The apostles said some really stupid things and asked a lot of dumb questions, but they were honest of heart; they never vilified Jesus' teachings even though they didn't understand them. How utterly rude and ungracious that kind of behavior is. I think it is tolerable to be ignorant but intolerable to be arrogant.

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Yea |Bonita paper 102 is a goldmind.

 

HaHa. That is a nifty made up word: "goldmind". I like it. I think I might use it instead of "pure mind" or "spiritual mind".

 

So, instead of this quote: "But the mind that really discerns God, hears the indwelling Adjuster, is the pure mind."

 

It will read: "But the mind that really discerns God, hears the indwelling Adjuster, is the goldmind."

 

It works! Doncha think? Maybe we'll put it in the new revelatory dictionary. smilie_brett.gif

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Truth cannot be defined with words, only by living. Truth is always more than knowledge. Knowledge pertains to things observed, but truth transcends such purely material levels in that it consorts with wisdom and embraces such imponderables as human experience, even spiritual and living realities. Knowledge originates in science; wisdom, in true philosophy; truth, in the religious experience of spiritual living. Knowledge deals with facts; wisdom, with relationships; truth, with reality values. ~ The Urantia Book, (132:3.2)

 

 

2:7.4The false science of materialism would sentence mortal man to become an outcast in the universe. Such partial knowledge is potentially evil; it is knowledge composed of both good and evil. Truth is beautiful because it is both replete and symmetrical. When man searches for truth, he pursues the divinely real.

 

P2:7.5 Philosophers commit their gravest error when they are misled into the fallacy of abstraction, the practice of focusing the attention upon one aspect of reality and then of pronouncing such an isolated aspect to be the whole truth. The wise philosopher will always look for the creative design which is behind, and pre-existent to, all universe phenomena.The creator thought invariably precedes creative action.

 

2:7.6 Intellectual self-consciousness can discover the beauty of truth, its spiritual quality, not only by the philosophic consistency of its concepts, but more certainly and surely by the unerring response of the ever-present Spirit of Truth. Happiness ensues from the recognition of truth because it can be acted out; it can be lived. Disappointment and sorrow attend upon error because, not being a reality, it cannot be realized in experience. Divine truth is best known by its spiritual flavor.

 

 

Yea Bonita, originally I meant to put -Goldmine- but after posting I realized -Goldmind- is just as great of a word hahaha. Another point I wanna say is that I am sure everyone notice's that all of these concept's are always in 3's. Science, Philosophy, Religion. Hence IMO the need for the combined use of the 3 cosmic intuition's so that we can actually see -REALITY- by the co-ordination of these 3. It would seem if we are not using the 3 together we are just "focusing the attention upon one aspect of reality and then pronouncing such an isolated aspect to be the whole truth." Of coarse if we are not using any of them than it would seem we are just seing the world in the same way an animal see's the world hahaha.

 

IMO an animal is using the 2nd mind adjutant all the time, and this approach in place of -recognition- of universe reality is a common approach that most people use.

Edited by boomshuka

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Hence IMO the need for the combined use of the 3 cosmic intuition's so that we can actually see -REALITY- by the co-ordination of these 3. It would seem if we are not using the 3 together we are just "focusing the attention upon one aspect of reality and then pronouncing such an isolated aspect to be the whole truth."

 

Well, isn't that the meaning of the quote I gave several posts back when I was talking about imbalance, lack of unity?

 

16:6.10  These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions.

 

Everyone has access to all three cosmic intuitions, but not everyone uses them proportionately. When the three cosmic intuitions are functioning as unrelated factors, a person's mental landscape is divided and confused. The human mind does not do well under those circumstances because the cosmic mind is the means by which the material and the spiritual can work in harmony. If the cosmic mind is not functioning as a unified whole with the personality, if one aspect is overactive and another underdeveloped, there is a lack of harmony in that mind.

 

12.8.13  The goal of existence of all personalities is spirit; material manifestations are relative, and the cosmic mind intervenes between these universal opposites.

 

And if man fails to unify these cosmic intuitions, (1. material acumen or causation, 2. moral discrimination or duty, 3. spiritual insight or worship) then you are right, he is functioning on an animal level.

 

16.7.5  When man fails to discriminate the ends of his mortal striving, he finds himself functioning on the animal level of existence. He has failed to avail himself of the superior advantages of that
material acumen
,
moral discrimination
, and
spiritual insight
which are an integral part of his cosmic-mind endowment as a personal being.

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The real question is who is using these 3 cosmic intuitions....?????....Who is seing "reality" hahaha. Apparently it makes the angel's "SAD TO RECORD"..that.. "VERY FEW MORTALS" are....So it would seem that "VERY FEW MORTAL"S" have ANY concept of reality...lol..that is a bold statement in the urantia book.

 

Apparently the human race is making ALOT of angel's SAD...lol.

 

Personally I place myself as someone who is not using these 3 cosmic intuition's. lol I feel at some points in my life I have utilized bits and pieces of them though.

 

TUB tells us that the experience of living never fails to develop the three cosmic intuitions, but it also says that they are manifested by a technique of self-revelation"

 

QUOTE

"there are so few professed follower's of jesus who really live."

 

And as we are instructed in TUB those who are really living are the 2nd miler's.....oh to be a 2nd miler...hahahahh...

 

102:2.5 But mind can never succeed in this unification of the diversity of reality unless such mind is firmly aware of material things, intellectual meanings, and spiritual values; only in the harmony of the triunity of functional reality is there unity, and only in unity is there the personality satisfaction of the realization of cosmic constancy and consistency.

 

Again it seems that the U.B reiterates this 3 fold approach, that seem's to be possible threw the 3 cosmic intuition's. I am not trying to lecture anyone hahaha I post these u.b quotes for my own learning as well hahaha. I think of these forums as Case Study's on Urantia material, so I am just trying to add to the pot of information for this case study.

 

I have a feeling of humility when I try and post these and give my opinion because I know, I am not experiencing the cosmic mind yet hahaha. Also I know that when our thoughts become authorative we are engaging in "False Liberty". False liberty seem's to be the most widespread repercussion of the Lucifer Rebellion that exists on our planet.

 

(

613.3) 54:1.1 Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.
Edited by boomshuka

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Absolutely, I remember. I don't know how he tolerated it. It's no wonder he went to the hills and mountains so often. The man must have been exhausted by it all.

 

But don't you think it absolutely ugly to claim you want to study truth and then go about saying the most disrespectful and denigrating things about it? It shows a total lack of honesty, in my opinion. The apostles said some really stupid things and asked a lot of dumb questions, but they were honest of heart; they never vilified Jesus' teachings even though they didn't understand them. How utterly rude and ungracious that kind of behavior is. I think it is tolerable to be ignorant but intolerable to be arrogant.

 

 

 

He went to the hills to take in spiritual energy. He might also have been taking care of other business while wandering the hills.

 

I'm not so much bothered about the things you are bothered about, as you have stated above. I appreciate the ongoing conversations, because they are mentally stimulating to me. I have a positive outlook. I would rather have a conversation, than no conversation. Like you, I am interested in what people think regarding the UB material. Even if I disagree at times. What I am really interested in is a person's motivation. Is there sincerity? Is there hope? Is there unselfishness? Is there the love of truth and the willingness to go where it leads? Is there honesty? Is there faith? But I am not able to know the answers to these question, because it is not for me to really know. Only God knows the truth of a person's motivation. The weight of logic or shrewd eloquence can at times squelch a conversaton about spiritual matters.

 

 

 

P. 1765 - §4
Always respect the personality of man. Never should a righteous cause be promoted by force; spiritual victories can be won only by spiritual power. This injunction against the employment of material influences refers to psychic force as well as to physical force. Overpowering arguments and mental superiority are not to be employed to coerce men and women into the kingdom. Man's mind is not to be crushed by the mere weight of logic or overawed by shrewd eloquence. While emotion as a factor in human decisions cannot be wholly eliminated, it should not be directly appealed to in the teachings of those who would advance the cause of the kingdom. Make your appeals directly to the divine spirit that dwells within the minds of men. Do not appeal to fear, pity, or mere sentiment. In appealing to men, be fair; exercise self-control and exhibit due restraint; show proper respect for the personalities of your pupils. Remember that I have said: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock, and if any man will open, I will come in."

 

 

Sorry boomshuka. I've taken a side trip on your topic. Please forgive me :huh:

 

All the best,

Meredith

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