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Just trying to see where Positivism fits into the U.B. So far I see alot of similarities with it and the sophistry's of the lucifer rebellion. The notion that truth comes from the bottom (creature mind) and up as opposed from the top down (god) down seems to be the main sticking point of this philosophy. I also see alot of similarity between using the 2nd mind adjutant to uncover reality and this philosophy. The ability to just use the 2nd mind adjutant seem's to be just a superanimal ability though, and something that even a Sporangia (superanimal) would be able to do. This philosophy is in stark contrast with the Urantia Book. Where to uncover universe reality we must rely on the 3 cosmic intiution's that give us the ability to -Recognize-. And by using this 3 cosmic intuition's we can allow our thought adjuster to iniate insight into the highest level of thinking thereby actually discovering universe reality.

 

P2094:9, 196:3.10 The human mind does not create real values; human experience does not yield universe insight. Concerning insight, the recognition of moral values and the discernment of spiritual meanings, all that the human mind can do is to discover, recognize, interpret, and choose.

 

The huge missing peace in Positivism is that they replace "recognize" with the 2nd mind adjutant "quick reasoning". Positivism say's that it is impossible for human mind to "recognize". That we must rely on the priori assumption's and use the 2nd mind adjutant to make interpret and than choose.

 

Positivism asserts that the only authentic knowledge is that which is based on sense, experience and positive verification

 

402.4) 36:5.7 2. The spirit of understanding — the impulse of co-ordination, the spontaneous and apparently automatic association of ideas. This is the gift of the co-ordination of acquired knowledge, the phenomenon of quick reasoning, rapid judgment, and prompt decision.

 

"helpless victims of the implied a priori assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion"

 

Positivism refers to a set of epistemological perspectives and philosophies of science which hold that the scientific method is the best approach to uncovering the processes by which both physical and human events occur. Though the positivist approach has been a recurrent theme in the history of western thought from the Ancient Greeks to the present day,[1] the concept was developed in the early 19th century by the philosopher and founding sociologist, Auguste Comte.[2]

 

 

1.The unity of the scientific method – i.e., the logic of inquiry is the same across all sciences (social and natural).

2.The goal of inquiry is to explain and predict. Most positivists would also say that the ultimate goal is to develop the law of general understanding, by discovering necessary and sufficient conditions for any phenomenon (creating a perfect model of it). If the law is known, we can manipulate the conditions to produce the predicted result.

3.Scientific knowledge is testable. Research can be proved only by empirical means, not argumentations. Research should be mostly deductive, i.e. deductive logic is used to develop statements that can be tested (theory leads to hypothesis which in turn leads to discovery and/or study of evidence). Research should be observable with the human senses (arguments are not enough, sheer belief is out of the question). Positivists should prove their research using the logic of confirmation.

4.Science does not equal common sense. Researchers must be careful not to let common sense bias their research.

5.The relation of theory to practice – science should be as value-neutral as possible, and the ultimate goal of science is to produce knowledge, regardless of any politics, morals, or values held by those involved in the research. Science should be judged by logic, and ideally produce universal conditionals:

For all conditions of X, if X has property P and P=Q, then X has property Q.

Statements must be true for all times and places.

 

 

There is alot of similarity between these principles and sophistry's included in the rebellion.

Someone who is a strict follower of Positivism will say to you how can you KNOW?!, To almost anything. This is flying in the face of the fundamental truth that reality can be "self evident" the united states was founded on this "we hold these truths to be self evident". Recognition is something human's have been able to do for thousands of year's it is not untill lately that there has been a philosophical charge against this ability that humans have. Thankfully reality is going to win out :huh:. But this philosophical notion that mind must be limited to the Priori assumptions of science is hopefully not going to last long.

Edited by boomshuka

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Hi boomshuka,

 

Thanks for continuing to prompt us not to forget the cosmic intuitions.

 

Regarding that neat list of positivist goals (hehe, truth tables :huh: ), it looks like the sort of list a stamp collecting academic pre-1905 might invent. While such an approach/hope may be appropriate for the easy and measurable things, it falls flat in any of the more interesting {non-electromagnetic, non time-dependent} domains.

 

Regarding materialistic viewpoints, a wrench sneaks into the works when a "scientist" begins to believe that their logical assumptions are something more than a model of the reality being considered. When they develop faith in their beliefs, no matter how reasonable, they have stopped using the true scientific method, and become liable to settle for reasonable assumptions rather than actual facts.

 

Of course, all of us can slip into this comfortable mindset, not just materialists.

Nigel

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I think one thing I have slowly come to learn is that Even with material facts' this approach is useless. if we replace "recognition" with "quick reasoning" we will end up with false assumption's.

 

If we do not "recognize" than we are "victims of the implied a priori assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion".

 

It seems to me that without utilization of these 3 cosmic intuition's we are functioning on super animal level's. An animal is able to "quick reason". They do not become the "spirit of reason" untill we utilize these 3 cosmic intuition's. Etleast that is how I interpret the u.b's position on these.

 

192.6) 16:6.10 In the local universe mind bestowals, these three insights of the cosmic mind constitute the a priori assumptions which make it possible for man to function as a rational and self-conscious personality in the realms of science, philosophy, and religion. Stated otherwise, the recognition of the reality of these three manifestations of the Infinite is by a cosmic technique of self-revelation.

 

And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man’s experience in and with things, meanings, and values
.

 

 

 

it would seem as though we are actually not "minded personality's" in the view of Urantia untill we begin to utilize these 3 cosmic intuitions. Because personality "unify's" what the mind "recognize's" if we are not actually recognizing reality by utilizing the 3 cosmic intutiion's we are just using the 2nd mind adjutant for quick reasoning, than it would see we are not actually using our personality. Hence we are just superanimal's, untill we choose to use the free gift's bestowed to us.

 

193.4) 16:7.5 When man fails to discriminate the ends of his mortal striving, he finds himself functioning on the animal level of existence. He has failed to avail himself of the superior advantages of that material acumen, moral discrimination, and spiritual insight which are an integral part of his cosmic-mind endowment as a personal being.

 

If I am not mistaken that paragraph is saying that if we are not using the 3 cosmic intuition's we are functioning completly on the "animal level"....

 

 

I agree Nigel I think most of us are not using these 3 cosmic intuition's. I think for me I have just been mentally slothfull and I have not personally used these cosmic intuition's to much degree. Etleast not in my adult year's, I think as a teenager I used them somewhat.

 

however, that it is “sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of ........

 

The bestowal of the divine gift of personality upon such a mind-endowed mortal mechanism confers the dignity of cosmic citizenship and enables such a mortal creature forthwith to become reactive to the constitutive recognition of the three basic mind realities of the cosmos:

 

(195.3) 16:8.16 1. The mathematical or logical recognition of the uniformity of physical causation.

(195.4) 16:8.17 2. The reasoned recognition of the obligation of moral conduct.

(195.5) 16:8.18 3. The faith-grasp of the fellowship worship of Deity, associated with the loving service of humanity.

 

(195.6) 16:8.19 The full function of such a personality endowment is the beginning realization of Deity kinship. Such a selfhood, indwelt by a prepersonal fragment of God the Father, is in truth and in fact a spiritual son of God. Such a creature not only discloses capacity for the reception of the gift of the divine presence but also exhibits reactive response to the personality-gravity circuit of the Paradise Father of all personalities.

 

Again it would seem that these 3 cosmic intuition's are essential.

Edited by boomshuka

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You realize that positivism was a thesis about scientific knowledge, not all knowledge, right?

 

Truth doesn't "come from" anywhere. Truth is a relation between propositions and reality.

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God is primal reality in the spirit world; God is the source of truth in the mind spheres; God overshadows all throughout the material realms.

 

P.23 - §4

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Truth is a relation between propositions and reality.

 

Reality can be experienced objectively with a 3 fold objective conciousness "the 3 cosmic intuitions". A 3-fold cosmic intuitioned mind does not create proposition's it "discovers and recognizes" reality. True religion isn't a propisition that is experienced, it is actually experiencing universe reality and it is literlaly diety relationship.

 

To make an assumption and than associate reality with your preconcieved assumption is a superanimal ability. This level of living is hardly what human's are capable of.

 

Man can engage in True Worship where the thought adjuster is leading the mind to view cosmic reality.

 

 

To only experience reality as something between a proposition and reality, is the same as to be only subject to "priori assumptions of science, philosophy and religion". The ability to Recognize is much more powerfull than simple relative association of logic. Recognition using the 3 cosmic intuition's is an experience of objective reality recognition. The level of simple logic is comparitevely a low level of living in what is humanly possible within the U.B. We can move up many many levels beyond that mode of thinking.

 

Obviously though I am not a cosmic minded individual, but I can interpret what the book is saying about this. These 3 cosmic intuition's also appear as free gifts just waiting to be utilized.

Edited by boomshuka

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Truth is a living factor of reality. Since final, divine truth is not attainable by humans, truth then becomes a relationship between the current state of one's personality reality and universe reality. Truth is not a mind issue, it is a personality issue that takes place in mind and is acted out with other personalities. The source of Truth is a person. When humans pursue truth, they are pursuing that which is divinely real and divine reality is a person. Divine truth is known by its spiritual flavor which can be discovered, recognized, interpreted and acted upon by spirit-endowed humans who are capable of functioning on supermaterial levels of consciousness. Since this is a growth relationship between the truth seeker and the source of truth, truth as it is experienced by a human, is ever expanding; it is alive.

 

180.5.2  Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality. Truth exists only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God. You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. When you undertake the human formulation of divine truth, it speedily dies. The post-mortem salvage of imprisoned truth, even at best, can eventuate only in the realization of a peculiar form of intellectualized glorified wisdom. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind.

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Yea my intention was to just talk about what the Urantia say's is possible for Human's Discover and Recognize in contract with modern day philosophy which postulates how man cannot recognize what he discover's but must rely on priori assumption. I guess that truth is sort of a tangent of that though.

Edited by boomshuka

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Reality can be experienced objectively with a 3 fold objective conciousness "the 3 cosmic intuitions". A 3-fold cosmic intuitioned mind does not create proposition's it "discovers and recognizes" reality. True religion isn't a propisition that is experienced, it is actually experiencing universe reality and it is literlaly diety relationship.

 

(191.4) 16:6.1 The Master Spirits are the sevenfold source of the cosmic mind, the intellectual potential of the grand universe. This cosmic mind is a subabsolute manifestation of the mind of the Third Source and Center and, in certain ways, is functionally related to the mind of the evolving Supreme Being.

 

(191.5) 16:6.2 On a world like Urantia
we do not encounter the direct influence of the Seven Master Spirits in the affairs of the human races
. You live under the immediate influence of the Creative Spirit of Nebadon. Nevertheless these same Master Spirits dominate the basic reactions of all creature mind because they are the
actual sources
of the intellectual and spiritual potentials which have been specialized in the local universes for function in the lives of those individuals who inhabit the evolutionary worlds of time and space.

 

Keeping this in context, we are being told here that The Master Spirits are the source of the cosmic mind, and the source of intellectual and spiritual potentials.

 

(191.7) 16:6.4 There exists in all personality associations of the cosmic mind a quality which might be denominated the “reality response.” It is this universal cosmic endowment of will creatures which saves them from becoming helpless victims of the implied a priori assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion. This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity. It would be still more correct to say that these supermaterial realities so respond to the mind of the cosmos.

 

Reading this carefully, it does not say that the "reality response" endows will creatures with the ability to bypass the normal operations of the intellect in all things. It is a "sensitivity" to "certain phases of reality" only, namely the "supermaterial" ones. So, the general idea, as I understand it, is that the Reality Response enables us (will creatures) to be sensitive to supermaterial realities, and this response, when it operates, would tend to give us the sense that our usual assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion, are incomplete. That is, the Reality Response gives us an intuition that something more is going on.

 

Believe it or not, I find this to be entirely consistent with my experience too.

 

(192.1) 16:6.5 The cosmic mind unfailingly responds (recognizes response) on three levels of universe reality. These responses are self-evident to clear-reasoning and deep-thinking minds. These levels of reality are:

 

(192.2) 16:6.6 1. Causation — the reality domain of the physical senses, the scientific realms of logical uniformity, the differentiation of the factual and the nonfactual, reflective conclusions based on cosmic response. This is the mathematical form of the cosmic discrimination.

(192.3) 16:6.7 2. Duty — the reality domain of morals in the philosophic realm, the arena of reason, the recognition of relative right and wrong. This is the judicial form of the cosmic discrimination.

(192.4) 16:6.8 3. Worship — the spiritual domain of the reality of religious experience, the personal realization of divine fellowship, the recognition of spirit values, the assurance of eternal survival, the ascent from the status of servants of God to the joy and liberty of the sons of God. This is the highest insight of the cosmic mind, the reverential and worshipful form of the cosmic discrimination.

 

(192.5) 16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking. But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.

 

Here we are told that clear-reasoning and deep-thinking minds recognize the reality of causation, duty, and worship. This is very interesting, since causation and duty have been believed by many philosophers, for a long time, to be innate ideas. That is, the world itself doesn't disclose causation and duty to us; we are in some way "hardwired" to see causation and duty in the world. This line of thinking reached its peak in the philosophy of Immanuel Kant.

 

Concerning worship, Kant wrote ""Man is the creature of religious instincts and must worship something." He also famously said, ""I have found it necessary to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith". He didn't, of course, deny all knowledge, but he put faith into a separate category and regarded it as indispensable for making sense of the world.

 

In any event, I don't read the UB's "cosmic intuitions" as some sort of cognitive super powers that certain advanced people attain. Most people have intuitions of causation, duty, and worship. But most people don't think about where and how these intuitions originate.

 

To only experience reality as something between a proposition and reality, is the same as to be only subject to "priori assumptions of science, philosophy and religion". The ability to Recognize is much more powerfull than simple relative association of logic. Recognition using the 3 cosmic intuition's is an experience of objective reality recognition. The level of simple logic is comparitevely a low level of living in what is humanly possible within the U.B. We can move up many many levels beyond that mode of thinking.

 

To experience reality as something between a proposition and reality makes no sense. I said that truth is a relation between propositions and reality. That's not an assumption. Words mean what they mean.

 

"Paris is the capital of France."

 

"Pi cannot be expressed as a repeating decimal."

 

These are propositions. They are true. What makes them true is that they are related to the world in the right way. This isn't an assumption; it's just what "true" means.

 

Truth is a living factor of reality. Since final, divine truth is not attainable by humans, truth then becomes a relationship between the current state of one's personality reality and universe reality.

 

There's no special problem about saying that some truth is not attainable by humans. It doesn't have to be divine truth, either. It's simply a matter of there being propositions whose truth or falsity we can never be in a position to know. The claim that "truth is a living factor of reality" looks like a metaphor to me. At a literal level it makes no more sense to call truth living than it does to call long division living. If it means that one's ability to discern truth depends upon one's level of awareness, then I have no issue with it.

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130.4.10  Knowledge is the sphere of the material or fact-discerning mind. Truth is the domain of the spiritually endowed intellect that is conscious of knowing God. Knowledge is demonstrable; truth is experienced. Knowledge is a possession of the mind; truth an experience of the soul, the progressing self. Knowledge is a function of the nonspiritual level; truth is a phase of the mind-spirit level of the universes. The eye of the material mind perceives a world of factual knowledge; the eye of the spiritualized intellect discerns a world of true values. These two views, synchronized and harmonized, reveal the world of reality, wherein wisdom interprets the phenomena of the universe in terms of progressive personal experience.

 

Truth is part of intellect, but it is the part of intellect that is conscious of KNOWING God. It is not knowing ABOUT God, or entertaining the idea OF God, but actually knowing God. It is an experience of the soul and the soul is the supermaterial part of the intellect.

 

God is a person. God is living. Truth is living because it can only be experienced as a relationship, a relationship with God, who is a person. If you do not know God as a person, you cannot know truth; you can know facts. If you deny a relationship with God, you also deny truth. Without knowing the living God and his living truth, the best you can do is to know about the idea of truth. Truth is a reality, not an idea or theory about reality; it is an actual experience with an ideal, a spiritual value.

 

Long division is not an ideal or a spiritual value. Long division is a function of the material fact-discerning mind; it is not a function of the spiritually endowed intellect which is conscious of knowing God. Albeit, both functions of mind are necessary parts of progressive personal experience.

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You know, it's one thing to coin a word when there simply isn't an existing English word that conveys the right meaning. Sometimes doing so is the only way to convey that meaning. And sometimes it's necessary to take an existing word and make it more precise than it is in everyday usage. But I find it disturbing when a word is hijacked and used in a way that is so different as to be unrecognizable. This is what the UB does with the word "truth", and the more I encounter this, the more disturbing I find it.

 

Paris is the capital of France. True or false?

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True is not the same as truth.

 

True and false are not the same as truth and error.

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True is not the same as truth.

 

True and false are not the same as truth and error.

 

Indeed. True is to truth as high is to height. "True" is the adjective and "truth" is the noun, but they both apply to the same relation. The meaning doesn't change; only the grammatical role does. And of course "truth" may be used to refer to propositions that have the property of being true. So I'll rephrase the question:

 

"Paris is the capital of France." Truth or error?

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Indeed. True is to truth as high is to height. "True" is the adjective and "truth" is the noun, but they both apply to the same relation. The meaning doesn't change; only the grammatical role does. And of course "truth" may be used to refer to propositions that have the property of being true. So I'll rephrase the question:

 

"Paris is the capital of France." Truth or error?

 

It's a time conditioned fact, isn't it?

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It's a time conditioned fact, isn't it?

 

Facts are aspects of reality. Truths are about facts. More to the point, it's the fact that Paris is the capital of France that makes the proposition "Paris is the capital of France" true, or a truth if you prefer. Sure, that fact is subject to change in time, making the proposition "Paris is the capital of France" a time-conditioned truth. "There is no highest prime number" is a truth that isn't time-conditioned.

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You live under the immediate influence of the Creative Spirit of Nebadon.

 

I know for each universe there is one Master Spirit 7 in total. and with each Universe there exists this cosmic mind as it comes from the Master Spirit. But than we downstep that expression of the cosmic mind, to the local universe level (creative mother spirit). So while we are not directly connected to that superuniverse level of the cosmic mind, we can be directly connected to it threw the local downstepped expression. (creative mother spirit).

 

 

lol I deleted my last comment as I have been researching more and more of this.

 

It would seem as though this Cosmic mind starts off as the Absolute Mind "3rd source and center". Than is downstepped to the Supreme Being who is the highest expression of finite reality. Than we get it downstepped in each universe threw a master spirit. Than finally we come to the Loca mother lspirit, where it is accessible to Urantia Mortals.

 

Following the trail we know that everything comes from the top down, and I think this is the path of mind that Urantia Book is laying out. It would seem that each mind is held within a region of space by a specific being. So it would appear that we are actually using the Loaned mind of the local mother spirit.

 

(191.4) 16:6.1 The Master Spirits are the sevenfold source of the cosmic mind, the intellectual potential of the grand universe. This cosmic mind is a subabsolute manifestation of the mind of the Third Source and Center and, in certain ways, is functionally related to the mind of the evolving Supreme Being
.

 

Okay so right there they are explaining that Cosmic mind comes first from the Third source and center, and than I suppose it goes threw each Universe and is held in place by each Master Spirit. Also it goes threw the Supreme Being. Than on the next paragraph they give a bit of information of how it is than downstepped again threw the Local Spirit.

 

(191.5) 16:6.2 On a world like Urantia we do not encounter the direct influence of the Seven Master Spirits in the affairs of the human races. You live under the immediate influence of the Creative Spirit of Nebadon

 

It appears though that accessing the Cosmic mind does not happen very often etleast not yet to mortal's on our planet. But without Cosmic mind it also appears that human mind is unable to access the 3 cosmic intuition's. (IMO) this would lead me to believe that for the most part than mortals for the most part are incapable of using the master spirit's any differently than an animal would use the master spirits. I don't think they become the "spirit of wisdom" etc untill we are born of spirit, and to be born of spirit (IMO) seem's to be when mortals threw the creative local mother spirit access her mind the "cosmic mind."

 

(IMO) It seem's that most people (myself included) are all on the same plane of thinking hahaha the animal plane of existance....but it would seem at any time we are close to accessing this loaned mind threw the local mother spirit by "an exhibition of creature willingness".Thereby being born of spirit, and in reality son's of god, with the capability to not be subject to "priori assumption's".

 

(193.4) 16:7.5 When man fails to discriminate the ends of his mortal striving, he finds himself functioning on the animal level of existence.
(IMO) To discriminate mean's to actually Recognize. To recognize the end of our mortal strivings we will have to access the cosmic mind, which is literlaly capable of discriminating the ends of our mortal strivings. If we are not able to recognize the ends of our mortal striving's than it would appear we are acting out as just animal beings.

 

(193.3) 16:7.4 As a result of experience an animal becomes able to examine the different ways of attaining a goal and to select an approach based on accumulated experience.
---(IMO)-This is the plane of existance that most of us find ourselves partaking in. (IMO) very close to positivism and mainstream philosophical opinion. Edited by boomshuka

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132.3.2  Truth cannot be defined with words, only by living. Truth is always more than knowledge. Knowledge pertains to things observed, but truth transcends such purely material levels in that it consorts with wisdom and embraces such imponderables as human experience, even spiritual and living realities. Knowledge originates in science; wisdom, in true philosophy; truth, in the religious experience of spiritual living. Knowledge deals with facts; wisdom, with relationships; truth, with reality values.

 

The capital of France is a thing observed, a fact. Whether or not that fact consorts with wisdom such that it can be considered to be truth, I cannot say.

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132.3.2  Truth cannot be defined with words, only by living. Truth is always more than knowledge. Knowledge pertains to things observed, but truth transcends such purely material levels in that it consorts with wisdom and embraces such imponderables as human experience, even spiritual and living realities. Knowledge originates in science; wisdom, in true philosophy; truth, in the religious experience of spiritual living. Knowledge deals with facts; wisdom, with relationships; truth, with reality values.

 

The capital of France is a thing observed, a fact. Whether or not that fact consorts with wisdom such that it can be considered to be truth, I cannot say.

 

Good answer Bonita, and I would add that only personality consorts with wisdom and Paris is not a person, and therefore does not have personality. It is a non-person and naming it Paris or something else does not add to one's wisdom. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, though a rose is not a person either, and therefoe cannot get wisdom.

 

All the best,

Meredith

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The capital of France is a thing observed, a fact. Whether or not that fact consorts with wisdom such that it can be considered to be truth, I cannot say.

 

Paris is a thing observed indeed, a city. Paris certainly isn't a fact. You can visit a city, but you can't visit a fact. In any case, this doesn't answer the question, which wasn't "What is Paris?"

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Thanks Meredith. Here's another quote to consider:

 

118:3.3  Truth is inconcussible — forever exempt from all transient vicissitudes, albeit never dead and formal, always vibrant and adaptable — radiantly alive. But when truth becomes linked with fact, then both time and space condition its meanings and correlate its values. Such realities of truth wedded to fact become concepts and are accordingly relegated to the domain of relative cosmic realities.

 

Does the fact of the geographical location for the government of the people living in the part of Earth currently known as France qualify as a cosmic reality or is it a transient vicissitude?

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Thanks Meredith. Here's another quote to consider:

 

118:3.3  Truth is inconcussible — forever exempt from all transient vicissitudes, albeit never dead and formal, always vibrant and adaptable — radiantly alive. But when truth becomes linked with fact, then both time and space condition its meanings and correlate its values. Such realities of truth wedded to fact become concepts and are accordingly relegated to the domain of relative cosmic realities.

 

Does the fact of the geographical location for the government of the people living in the part of Earth currently known as France qualify as a cosmic reality or is it a transient vicissitude?

 

France is a transient geographic location, as is New York or any other physical location. Our world is evolving and changing - slowly. The bedrock of our history show the stone pages of change over time. The location for the government of the people is not going to remain unchanged indefinitely.

 

P.196 - §1
Civilizations are unstable because they are not cosmic; they are not innate in the individuals of the races. They must be nurtured by the combined contributions of the constitutive factors of man--science, morality, and religion. Civilizations come and go, but science, morality, and religion always survive the crash.

 

 

 

There is an inner world and an outer world. I would say France and its location of goverrnment for its people is of the outer world. The outer world has a different set of values than the inner world. I think these values pertain to differences in quantitative and qualitative observations.

 

P.1476 - §6
Scientists may some day measure the energy, or force manifestations, of gravitation, light, and electricity, but these same scientists can never (scientifically) tell you what these universe phenomena are. Science deals with physical-energy activities; religion deals with eternal values. True philosophy grows out of the wisdom which does its best to correlate these quantitative and qualitative observations. There always exists the danger that the purely physical scientist may become afflicted with mathematical pride and statistical egotism, not to mention spiritual blindness.

 

A geographic location does not love. Government does not love. A chemical formula does not love. A piano does not love. An organization does not love. An equation does not love. Love is a fruit of the divine spirit and is outgoing in all its satisfaction seeking and is a spiritual phenomena between and among persons.

 

P.141 - §3
Love is the secret of beneficial association between personalities. You cannot really know a person as the result of a single contact. You cannot appreciatingly know music through mathematical deduction, even though music is a form of mathematical rhythm. The number assigned to a telephone subscriber does not in any manner identify the personality of that subscriber or signify anything concerning his character.

 

 

Personalities know truth by its spiritual flavor.

 

All the best,

Meredith

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Anyway's lol. (IMO) born of spirit = being able to access the Cosmic Mind threw the Local Creative "Mother" spirit. Delivering us from "priori assumption" and making it so that we can engage the 7 mind adjutants on a level where we can truly say they are the "spirit of ...."...

 

In which case it seem's "its sad to record that few mortals"....lol in which case I probably am not born of spirit etleast not yet.. but thats alright :huh:.

 

If we attempt to use just our limited creature minds to grasp the universe and god, without this 3 fold approach where we are engaging the cosmic mind (IMO) the best that we can achieve is a faith-recognition. I think though if we take the 5th epochal revelation seriously we can threw this revelation and self-revelation access this cosmic mind by the simple faith,trust approach that Jesus taught his follower's to use. Afterall he advised his follower's to use the simple faith outlook of a child to show how man can come to discovery and recognition of God and the Cosmo's.

 

Of coarse the best approach is probably threw allowing this indwelling thought adjuster to connect to the local mother spirits Cosmic Mind, I am sure this can be done threw True Worship and True Religion.

Edited by boomshuka

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Excellent points Meredith. Here's another quote:

 

101:4.3  Truth is
always
a revelation: autorevelation when it emerges as a result of the work of the indwelling Adjuster; epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality.

 

Is the geographical position of the government of the people inhabiting the land currently known as France a revelation from God?

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