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Can an evil life lead to death?

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I was wondering what you guy's though about this topic. It's my opinion that mankind is not naturally sinfull and that we just alot of the time succumb to different level's of evil. However I think there is a threshold at which point evil living can snowball into "indiluted evil" and become a death sentence. Of coarse someone who is good cannot produce bad fruit and someone who bad cannot produce good fruit so I guess maybe it is impossible to be incredibly evil and not embrace sin at some point hahah.

 

In relation to God I view mind as the "inner life" where man can share it with God and let god teach him threw the mind. I have heard some people say yea but how do we do this?!. I think the key to this is "sincerity". I believe that the mind is the doorway and sincerity is the key to open the door to god.

 

I was contemplating Jesus warning's about spending to much time indulging in immaturity. I think that Immaturity/evil is dangerous in the longer you spend time without being sincere you may eventually forget how to do be sincere thereby never actually opening the door to god to allow him into your mind. I think that in this instance when a man spends his entire life in immaturity though he is not nessarilly sinning he is losing his instinctual ability to be sincere and jeopardizing everything, because insecerity/immaturity can only lead to sin when it is fully embraced as a mode of living.

 

I think though people are not naturally sinfull, but that when they continually succumb to evil/immaturity they can potentially lose the creature desire for god. Obviously many human being's do not survive death ,ie the thought adjuster who has been in 15 humans I believe it was.I used to think were I used to think this was just murderer's and rapists and sociopath's I am inclinded to believe that many unwittingly lose their ability to ascend to the next world because they spend to much time in selfish immaturity. Anyway's I am just speculating I am not saying any of this is 100 percent, I just thought I would throw out some comment's hahaha. This is just something that has been rattling in my brain the past couple day's.

 

(IMO) Indiluted evil is probably the acme of immaturity/selfish thinking and that this state of being all though is not necessarily sinfull is exteremely hazerdous. Unless we become like children we shall not enter the kingdom of heaven just seem's like a statement that is saying that you don't have to be a sinfull s.o.b to not enter the kingdom of heaven, you can just live an extremely selfish/immature life and be shut out.

 

I just know Jesus gave warning's to men who were not necessarily sinfull, which lead's me to beleive that evil when multiplied in someone's life can lead to death, sin and destruction.

 

 

In the end though Survival is a choice to be led by the spirit/God, and some people just rather be led by their own desire's than the spiritual leadings of the mystery monitor that is alway's in contact with the universal father. People who reject to be led by the spirit (IMO) are not usually horrible people. They are alot of times (IMO) normal individual's they just flat out would rather listen to their own desire's and plan's and concept's and reject the spiritual plan's, desire's. It's sad to think that alot of people who choose this reality in mortal life are our neighbour's and friends and loved ones, I think we just badly wish they were those murderer's and rapist's who were the only one's choosing this. Etleast I do, I hate the notion of anyone dying.

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Guest rich

196:2.9 He saw most men as weak rather than wicked, more distraught than depraved. But no matter what their status, they were all God’s children and his brethren.

 

ignorance is bliss as most are not evil just ignorant in the sense of not knowing better. 39:4.14 The keys of the kingdom of heaven are: sincerity, more sincerity, and more sincerity.

 

109:4.5 I have observed a Thought Adjuster indwelling a mind on Urantia who has, according to the records on Uversa, indwelt fifteen minds previously in Orvonton. We do not know whether this Monitor has had similar experiences in other superuniverses, but I suspect so. This is a marvelous Adjuster and one of the most useful and potent forces on Urantia during this present age. What others have lost, in that they refused to survive, this human being (and your whole world) now gains. From him who has not survival qualities, shall be taken away even that experienced Adjuster which he now has, while to him who has survival prospects, shall be given even the pre-experienced Adjuster of a slothful deserter.

 

from this quote one in 105 on average survives in eternity. imho, No results found for Indiluted: Did you mean Undiluted? no, you have to deliberately choose evil, not doing the will of god to be eliminated, you can't just be a ridiculously selfish person. in the long run people can be eliminated simply because they don't want to go on with the eternal plan.

 

(IMO) Indiluted evil is probably the acme of immaturity/selfish thinking and that this state of being all though is not necessarily sinfull is exteremely hazerdous. Unless we become like children we shall not enter the kingdom of heaven just seem's like a statement that is saying that you don't have to be a sinfull s.o.b to not enter the kingdom of heaven, you can just live an extremely selfish/immature life and be shut out.

 

I just know Jesus gave warning's to men who were not necessarily sinfull, which lead's me to beleive that evil when multiplied in someone's life can lead to death, sin and destruction.

 

In the end though Survival is a choice to be led by the spirit/God, and some people just rather be led by their own desire's than the spiritual leadings of the mystery monitor that is alway's in contact with the universal father. People who reject to be led by the spirit (IMO) are not usually horrible people. They are alot of times (IMO) normal individual's they just flat out would rather listen to their own desire's and plan's and concept's and reject the spiritual plan's, desire's. It's sad to think that alot of people who choose this reality in mortal life are our neighbour's and friends and loved ones, I think we just badly wish they were those murderer's and rapist's who were the only one's choosing this. Etleast I do, I hate the notion of anyone dying.

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All mortal life leads to physical death....

 

After that, it is the free will choice of a personality to continue existence or not.

 

After all, Father is so merciful and loving that he forgives you and will wait with patience. Even the personality of Lucifer still exists...............

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All mortal life leads to physical death....

 

After that, it is the free will choice of a personality to continue existence or not.

 

After all, Father is so merciful and loving that he forgives you and will wait with patience. Even the personality of Lucifer still exists...............

 

I am pretty sure the U.B say's that it is the soul that choose's survival after death. A soul that self- identify's with the material world will not survive death. The personality and mind are not present during this descision as I interpret the event in U.B.

 

This quote say's to me that there are a few path's to death and destruction....

 

 

Only by selfishness, slothfulness, and sinfulness can the will of man reject the guidance of such a loving pilot and eventually wreck the mortal career upon the evil shoals of rejected mercy and upon the rocks of embraced sin

 

I like these quotes about justice.

 

Love always provides the time lag of mercy.

 

“Supreme justice can act instantly when not restrained by divine mercy. But the ministry of mercy to the children of time and space always provides for this time lag, this saving interval between seedtime and harvest. If the seed sowing is good, this interval provides for the testing and upbuilding of character; if the seed sowing is evil, this merciful delay provides time for repentance and rectification. This time delay in the adjudication and execution of evildoers is inherent in the mercy ministry of the seven superuniverses. This restraint of justice by mercy proves that God is love, and that such a God of love dominates the universes and in mercy controls the fate and judgment of all his creatures.” (616.5) 54:4.6

 

4. Exhaustion of mercy brings justice action.

 

“The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion. Subsequent to this event, that which cannot be sometime spiritualized will eventually be disorganized; that which cannot be sometime co-ordinated with cosmic reality will eventually be destroyed. When the provisions of endless mercy and nameless patience have been exhausted in an effort to win the loyalty and devotion of the will creatures of the realms, justice and righteousness will prevail. That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.” (241.1) 21:5.7

 

However its obvious that not everyone even gets to the point to "choose" survival.

 

(112:3.2) 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.

 

here is another quote about death.

 

(2:3.4) ...When the continued embrace of sin by the associated mind culminates in complete self-identification with iniquity, then upon the cessation of life, upon cosmic dissolution, such an isolated personality is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the evolving experience of the Supreme Being. Never again does it appear as a personality; its identity becomes as though it had never been. In the case of an Adjuster-indwelt personality, the experiential spirit values survive in the reality of the continuing Adjuster.

 

Yea Rich that quote about an adjuster being in 15 people is interesting.

Edited by boomshuka

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These words from Jesus, as conveyed in the KJV Bible Matthew 16 : 26 have stayed with me for many years

 

"For what to a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul"

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In this quote it seem's jesus is directly warning that if you live a evil life you will be shut out of the kingdom. Obviously selfishness and immaturity is not inherent sinfullness but it seem's that these two mode's of living are like sail's on a ship that drive the soul into the rock's of sin, where you will be stranded and pronounced dead. (IMO) in this quote Jesus is saying that if you "personality and mind" choose to enter the kingdom of heaven after living an evil life, you will be unable to because your Soul and Spirit have fully rejected Paradise. I imagine this would happen if a divine being were suddenly come up to a wicked man and announce the reality of God and Paradise and that person would say oh thank heaven's there is a Paradise!! I want to go to Paradise with you! But if his soul and spirit is full of evil and sin and has rejected God and the spiritual nature of paradise it will not be possible. If you have no soul to take to a spiritual realm than God cannot do anything for you. If you're soul has not self identified with spiritual substance than you will have no vehicle to take you to a spiritual kingdom.

 

Essentially Creature Personality cannot live in Paradise just because it choose's to. It must be willing to pay the price of admission and that is all done threw the soul.

 

 

"But herein is the danger to all who would postpone their entrance into the kingdom while they continue to pursue the pleasures of immaturity and indulge the satisfactions of selfishness: Having refused to enter the kingdom as a spiritual experience, they may subsequently seek entrance thereto when the glory of the better way becomes revealed in the age to come. And when, therefore, those who spurned the kingdom when I came in the likeness of humanity seek to find an entrance when it is revealed in the likeness of divinity, then will I say to all such selfish ones: I know not whence you are. You had your chance to prepare for this heavenly citizenship, but you refused all such proffers of mercy; you rejected all invitations to come while the door was open. Now, to you who have refused salvation, the door is shut. This door is not open to those who would enter the kingdom for selfish glory. Salvation is not for those who are unwilling to pay the price of wholehearted dedication to doing my Father's will. When in spirit and soul you have turned your backs upon the Father's kingdom, it is useless in mind and body to stand before this door and knock, saying, `Lord, open to us; we would also be great in the kingdom.' Then will I declare that you are not of my fold. I will not receive you to be among those who have fought the good fight of faith and won the reward of unselfish service in the kingdom on earth. And when you say, `Did we not eat and drink with you, and did you not teach in our streets?' then shall I again declare that you are spiritual strangers; that we were not fellow servants in the Father's ministry of mercy on earth; that I do not know you; and then shall the Judge of all the earth say to you: `Depart from us, all you who have taken delight in the works of iniquity.'

 

 

 

 

The Urantia Book, (34:6.4)

 

Those who have received and recognized the indwelling of God have been born of the Spirit. "You are the temple of God, and the spirit of God dwells in you." It is not enough that this spirit be poured out upon you; the divine Spirit must dominate and control every phase of human experience.

 

Faith sons work on intellectual levels and live on spiritual planes far above the conflicts produced by unrestrained or unnatural physical desires. The normal urges of animal beings and the natural appetites and impulses of the physical nature are not in conflict with even the highest spiritual attainment except in the minds of ignorant, mistaught, or unfortunately overconscientious persons

 

 

If, then, my children, you are born of the spirit, you are forever delivered from the self-conscious bondage of a life of self-denial and watchcare over the desires of the flesh, and you are translated into the joyous kingdom of the spirit, whence you spontaneously show forth the fruits of the spirit in your daily lives; and the fruits of the spirit are the essence of the highest type of enjoyable and ennobling self-control, even the heights of terrestrial mortal attainment—true self-mastery."

 

"Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father's will.

 

"Sin is the conscious, knowing, and deliberate transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Sin is the measure of unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed.

 

"Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father's loving plan of personality survival and the Sons' merciful ministry of salvation.

 

"By nature, before the rebirth of the spirit, mortal man is subject to inherent evil tendencies, but such natural imperfections of behavior are neither sin nor iniquity. Mortal man is just beginning his long ascent to the perfection of the Father in Paradise. To be imperfect or partial in natural endowment is not sinful. Man is indeed subject to evil, but he is in no sense the child of the evil one unless he has knowingly and deliberately chosen the paths of sin and the life of iniquity.

 

 

"Men are, indeed, by nature evil, but not necessarily sinful. The new birth—the baptism of the spirit—is essential to deliverance from evil and necessary for entrance into the kingdom of heaven, but none of this detracts from the fact that man is the son of God. Neither does this inherent presence of potential evil mean that man is in some mysterious way estranged from the Father in heaven so that, as an alien, foreigner, or stepchild, he must in some manner seek for legal adoption by the Father. All such notions are born, first, of your misunderstanding of the Father and, second, of your ignorance of the origin, nature, and destiny of man.

Edited by boomshuka

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There appears to be misuse of the words evil, sin and iniquity here. We ALL are evil in that we are not perfect. We are evolving and "mistake is our middle name." When we willfully and consciously do something we know is wrong then that is sin. After sinning for a while, you lose the ability to discern Truth and Beauty and Goodness and that is iniquity.Continue committing iniquity and you become unreal and there is nothing to resurrect upon death.

 

P.754 - §5 There are many ways of looking at sin, but from the universe philosophic viewpoint sin is the attitude of a personality who is knowingly resisting cosmic reality. Error might be regarded as a misconception or distortion of reality. Evil is a partial realization of, or maladjustment to, universe realities. But sin is a purposeful resistance to divine reality--a conscious choosing to oppose spiritual progress--while iniquity consists in an open and persistent defiance of recognized reality and signifies such a degree of personality disintegration as to border on cosmic insanity. Error suggests lack of intellectual keenness; evil, deficiency of wisdom; sin, abject spiritual poverty; but iniquity is indicative of vanishing personality control.

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All I am trying to say is that (IMO) if you are extremely slothfull and immature you are setting the condition's up in your mind where you will embrace sin more readily.

 

I am not saying Immaturity and slothfullness is Sin, or that Immaturity and laziness will get you destroyed. I am just taking that aspest of jesus teaching's and trying to understand the full danger of living a life like this.

 

"But herein is the danger to all who would postpone their entrance into the kingdom while they continue to pursue the pleasures of immaturity and indulge the satisfactions of selfishness
Edited by boomshuka

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In this quote it seem's jesus is directly warning that if you live a evil life you will be shut out of the kingdom. Obviously selfishness and immaturity is not inherent sinfullness but it seem's that these two mode's of living are like sail's on a ship that drive the soul into the rock's of sin, where you will be stranded and pronounced dead.

 

Boom, we all live evil lives. Evil simply means imperfect and as long as we are perfecting, potential evil will be present. Evil is inherent in the natural order of imperfect beings, which is why faith and being born of the spirit are so important.

 

148:4.6 By nature, before the rebirth of the spirit, mortal man is subject to
inherent evil
tendencies, but such natural imperfections of behavior are neither sin nor iniquity. Mortal man is just beginning his long ascent to the perfection of the Father in Paradise. To be imperfect or partial in natural endowment is not sinful. Man is indeed subject to evil, but he is in no sense the child of the evil one unless he has knowingly and deliberately chosen the paths of sin and the life of iniquity.
Evil is inherent in the natural order of this world
, but sin is an attitude of conscious rebellion which was brought to this world by those who fell from spiritual light into gross darkness.

 

In the quote you mention, Jesus is referring to those who refuse to enter the kingdom as a spiritual experience. He is talking about faith here, about being born of the spirit. Faith is the only criteria for entering the kingdom, not perfection.

 

138:8.8 Jesus made plain to his apostles the difference between the repentance of so-called good works as taught by the Jews and the
change of mind by faith — the new birth
— which he required as the price of admission to the kingdom. He taught his apostles that
faith was the only requisite to entering the Father’s kingdom
.

 

(IMO) in this quote Jesus is saying that if you "personality and mind" choose to enter the kingdom of heaven after living an evil life, you will be unable to because your Soul and Spirit have fully rejected Paradise.

 

It's more than personality and mind or soul and spirit. Extinction only comes when it is an undivided and fully understood decision of the whole personality. When an individual reaches this point, there is no soul; the soul is dead and the Adjuster (spirit) is gone. All that is left is personality acting with mind, and when personality wholly identifies with unreality, it becomes unreal. That's it. The personality essentially extinguishes itself through a form of cosmic suicide.

 

2:3.2 The final result of
wholehearted
sin is annihilation. In the last analysis, such sin-identified individuals have
destroyed themselves by becoming wholly unreal
through their embrace of iniquity. The factual disappearance of such a creature is, however, always delayed until the ordained order of justice current in that universe has been fully complied with.

 

112:3.2 1. Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this
release of the Adjuster
in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.

 

117:4.4 The human personality can truly destroy individuality of creaturehood, and though all that was worth while in the life of such a
cosmic suicide
will persist, these qualities will not persist as an individual creature. The Supreme will again find expression in the creatures of the universes but never again as that particular person; the unique personality of a nonascender returns to the Supreme as a drop of water returns to the sea.

 

In reality, after mortal death, these sin-identified folk still have to await the next resurrection roll call. And when the Adjuster doesn't return, then the judgment for annihilation is made. It is the return of the Adjuster that determines identity. (At least in our order of being).

 

113:6.8 The technique of justice demands that personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities.
The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence
. This roll call of justice always immediately follows the roll call of mercy, the resurrection of the sleeping survivors. But these are matters which are of concern to none but the supreme and all-knowing Judges of survival values. Such problems of adjudication do not really concern us.

 

I imagine this would happen if a divine being were suddenly come up to a wicked man and announce the reality of God and Paradise and that person would say oh thank heaven's there is a Paradise!! I want to go to Paradise with you! But if his soul and spirit is full of evil and sin and has rejected God and the spiritual nature of paradise it will not be possible. If you have no soul to take to a spiritual realm than God cannot do anything for you. If you're soul has not self identified with spiritual substance than you will have no vehicle to take you to a spiritual kingdom.

 

If there is any flicker of personality reality left in a person, a whisper of a soul still present, then there are enough mercy credits to assure survival until the final decision is made by the whole personality.

 

28:6.5 2. T
he Memory of Mercy
. These are the actual, full and replete, living records of the mercy which has been extended to individuals and races by the tender ministrations of the instrumentalities of the Infinite Spirit in the mission of adapting the justice of righteousness to the status of the realms, as disclosed by the portrayals of the Significance of Origins. The Memory of Mercy discloses the moral debt of the children of mercy — their spiritual liabilities — to be set down against their assets of the saving provision established by the Sons of God. In revealing the Father’s pre-existent mercy,
the Sons of God establish the necessary credit to insure the survival of all.
And then, in accordance with the findings of the Significance of Origins,
a mercy credit is established for the survival of each rational creature, a credit of lavish proportions and one of sufficient grace to insure the survival of every soul who really desires divine citizenship
.

 

155:6.17 Now, mistake not,
my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith
. He takes note of the physical and superstitious emotions of the primitive man. And with those honest but fearful souls whose faith is so weak that it amounts to little more than an intellectual conformity to a passive attitude of assent to religions of authority, the Father is ever
alert to honor and foster even all such feeble attempts to reach out for him
. But you who have been called out of darkness into the light are expected to believe with a whole heart; your faith shall dominate the combined attitudes of body, mind, and spirit.

 

All that notwithstanding, I think you are correct when you say that slothfulness of the spiritual life will find a reckoning day. Once one enters the kingdom by faith, actual work is required in order to stay there.

 

176:3.3 That you have once accepted sonship in the heavenly kingdom will not save you in the face of the knowing and persistent rejection of those truths which have to do with the progressive spiritual fruit-bearing of the sons of God in the flesh.

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Guest rich

more than that if that thought adjuster had similar experiences in the other six superuniverses like the quote says.

 

Yea Rich that quote about an adjuster being in 15 people is interesting.

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(1898.2) 174:1.2 After a short silence Jesus looked significantly at all four and answered: “My brethren, you err in your opinions because you do not comprehend the nature of those intimate and loving relations between the creature and the Creator, between man and God. You fail to grasp that understanding sympathy which the wise parent entertains for his immature and sometimes erring child. It is indeed doubtful whether intelligent and affectionate parents are ever called upon to forgive an average and normal child. Understanding relationships associated with attitudes of love effectively prevent all those estrangements which later necessitate the readjustment of repentance by the child with forgiveness by the parent.

 

(1898.3) 174:1.3 “A part of every father lives in the child. The father enjoys priority and superiority of understanding in all matters connected with the child-parent relationship. The parent is able to view the immaturity of the child in the light of the more advanced parental maturity, the riper experience of the older partner. With the earthly child and the heavenly Father, the divine parent possesses infinity and divinity of sympathy and capacity for loving understanding. Divine forgiveness is inevitable; it is inherent and inalienable in God’s infinite understanding, in his perfect knowledge of all that concerns the mistaken judgment and erroneous choosing of the child. Divine justice is so eternally fair that it unfailingly embodies understanding mercy.

 

(1898.4) 174:1.4 “When a wise man understands the inner impulses of his fellows, he will love them. And when you love your brother, you have already forgiven him. This capacity to understand man’s nature and forgive his apparent wrongdoing is Godlike. If you are wise parents, this is the way you will love and understand your children, even forgive them when transient misunderstanding has apparently separated you. The child, being immature and lacking in the fuller understanding of the depth of the child-father relationship, must frequently feel a sense of guilty separation from a father’s full approval, but the true father is never conscious of any such separation. Sin is an experience of creature consciousness; it is not a part of God’s consciousness.

 

(1898.5) 174:1.5 “Your inability or unwillingness to forgive your fellows is the measure of your immaturity, your failure to attain adult sympathy, understanding, and love. You hold grudges and nurse vengefulness in direct proportion to your ignorance of the inner nature and true longings of your children and your fellow beings. Love is the outworking of the divine and inner urge of life. It is founded on understanding, nurtured by unselfish service, and perfected in wisdom.”

 

(1903.4) 174:5.7 “He who believes this gospel, believes not merely in me but in Him who sent me. When you look upon me, you see not only the Son of Man but also Him who sent me. I am the light of the world, and whosoever will believe my teaching shall no longer abide in darkness. If you gentiles will hear me, you shall receive the words of life and shall enter forthwith into the joyous liberty of the truth of sonship with God. If my fellow countrymen, the Jews, choose to reject me and to refuse my teachings, I will not sit in judgment on them, for I came not to judge the world but to offer it salvation. Nevertheless, they who reject me and refuse to receive my teaching shall be brought to judgment in due season by my Father and those whom he has appointed to sit in judgment on such as reject the gift of mercy and the truths of salvation. Remember, all of you, that I speak not of myself, but that I have faithfully declared to you that which the Father commanded I should reveal to the children of men. And these words which the Father directed me to speak to the world are words of divine truth, everlasting mercy, and eternal life.

Edited by FTFSGRL

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Yea we can enter the kingdom of heaven as a child, but I guess we gota grow up into spiritual adulthood.

Edited by boomshuka

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Yea we can enter the kingdom of heaven as a child, but I guess we gota grow up into spiritual adulthood.

 

 

 

Yea Brother Boom!

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Guest one4all

Boomshuka:

 

I found your query Post, insightful. As have others to date. I hope that my afterthought to your query is taken in the sincerity which it is intended as my opinion.

 

“I was wondering what you guy's though about this topic. It's my opinion that mankind is not naturally sinfull and that we just alot of the time succumb to different level's of evil. However I think there is a threshold at which point evil living can snowball into "indiluted evil" and become a death sentence. Of coarse someone who is good cannot produce bad fruit and someone who bad cannot produce good fruit so I guess maybe it is impossible to be incredibly evil and not embrace sin at some point hahah.”

 

In my opinion humanity is not naturally sinful but, we just succumb to the temptations of life's evils. I think that there is a ceiling where life can threshold from the indulging/elusive thoughts of death. Therefore: someone who is neither dead nor alive (living-dead) may not be able to produce fruit, experience life, learn from making mistakes or observe other’s in default.

 

However; it is better to define living as a lack of perfection rather than evil doing. Jesus said: “Be ye perfect as my father in heaven is perfect.” “Only the Father [God] is good.” Which implies that Jesus also thought himself as not good but, striving to be perfect. When he (Jesus) said “When you see me, you see the Father”, he is probably inferring that the father is within him but he is still His individual personalized Son with his own personality and thoughts and opintions in regard to teaching.

 

 

“In relation to God I view mind as the "inner life" where man can share it with God and let god teach him threw the mind. I have heard some people say yea but how do we do this?!. I think the key to this is "sincerity". I believe that the mind is the doorway and sincerity is the key to open the door to god."

 

 

In relation to God, I view mind as multi-selves, like “Me, Myself and I. When with God the “I” becomes “I am with God”. “I think [i am w/t God] therefore I am”. We do this by trusting in God and playing out (experiencing) the hand that we are dealt. I believe that the key to the doorway of the mind (teaching through God) is sincerity in wanting to live life regardless of whether we can win in its game.

 

 

“I was contemplating Jesus warning's about spending to much time indulging in immaturity. I think that Immaturity/evil is dangerous in the longer you spend time without being sincere you may eventually forget how to do be sincere thereby never actually opening the door to god to allow him into your mind. I think that in this instance when a man spends his entire life in immaturity though he is not nessarilly sinning he is losing his instinctual ability to be sincere and jeopardizing everything, because insecerity/immaturity can only lead to sin when it is fully embraced as a mode of living.”

 

 

I think Jesus’ warning, contemplating about spending too much space/time indulging in whether the immaturity of trying to become mature is dangerous; I think the longer you spend thinking about what sincerity is to God, is also dangerous. You should rather be truthful to yourself, if you don’t you may eventually forget how to BE. Not “To be or not to be”, Just Be yourself, so you can find out who “You” are. Animals are born with an animal instinct Humans are not. The so called human instinct must be learned and experienced by using your given senses and hopefully one of those senses is common sense. Sincere immaturity can lead to fully embracing life as a mode that is comfortable to you and those who share it with you.

 

If received, well more later?

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Guest rich

at least the bible got this much right.

 

168:0.7 Then said Jesus, looking straight into the eyes of Martha: “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he dies, yet shall he live. In truth, whosoever lives and believes in me shall never really die. Martha, do you believe this?”

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Guest one4all
at least the bible got this much right.

 

168:0.7 Then said Jesus, looking straight into the eyes of Martha: "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he dies, yet shall he live. In truth, whosoever lives and believes in me shall never really die. Martha, do you believe this?"

 

 

wHoRaw

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Guest rich

what he didn't say that's in the bible but not in tub is no one comes to the father but by me. 40:7.3 These indwelling fragments of God are with your order of being from the early days of physical existence through all of the ascending career in Nebadon and Orvonton and on through Havona to Paradise itself.

 

since we have to personally meet the creator son, there's a line in the book about this i think, and then move on from salvington to the minor sector, i wish jesus had said no one comes to the father but by me, it would have been classically true.

 

wHoRaw

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what he didn't say that's in the bible but not in tub is no one comes to the father but by me. 40:7.3 These indwelling fragments of God are with your order of being from the early days of physical existence through all of the ascending career in Nebadon and Orvonton and on through Havona to Paradise itself.

 

since we have to personally meet the creator son, there's a line in the book about this i think, and then move on from salvington to the minor sector, i wish jesus had said no one comes to the father but by me, it would have been classically true.

 

But he did say that:

 

180:3.7 When Jesus heard Thomas, he answered: “Thomas, I am the way, the truth, and the life.
No man goes to the Father except through me
. All who find the Father, first find me. If you know me, you know the way to the Father. And you do know me, for you have lived with me and you now see me.”

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Guest rich

good, i thought it was in there somewhere, i was thinking of this one: 157:6.10 But if the Son be lifted up, he will draw all men to himself, and whosoever believes this truth of the combined nature of the Son shall be endowed with life that is more than age-abiding.” whatever that last part means about the combined nature.

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good, i thought it was in there somewhere, i was thinking of this one: 157:6.10 But if the Son be lifted up, he will draw all men to himself, and whosoever believes this truth of the combined nature of the Son shall be endowed with life that is more than age-abiding.” whatever that last part means about the combined nature.

 

Well, should we embark on a discussion about what the "combined nature of the Son" means and why those who believe in that truth will be "endowed with life that is more than age-abiding"? We already had a discussion on what it means by "lifted up", but I can't remember if it was this forum or elsewhere, so that might be an open topic too. Your decision.

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Love that qoute Rich, pure epicness haha. The Spirit of Truth lives :)

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Boom, we all live evil lives. Evil simply means imperfect and as long as we are perfecting, potential evil will be present. Evil is inherent in the natural order of imperfect beings, which is why faith and being born of the spirit are so important.

 

 

In the quote you mention, Jesus is referring to those who refuse to enter the kingdom as a spiritual experience. He is talking about faith here, about being born of the spirit. Faith is the only criteria for entering the kingdom, not perfection.

 

It's more than personality and mind or soul and spirit. Extinction only comes when it is an undivided and fully understood decision of the whole personality. When an individual reaches this point, there is no soul; the soul is dead and the Adjuster (spirit) is gone. All that is left is personality acting with mind, and when personality wholly identifies with unreality, it becomes unreal. That's it. The personality essentially extinguishes itself through a form of cosmic suicide.

 

In reality, after mortal death, these sin-identified folk still have to await the next resurrection roll call. And when the Adjuster doesn't return, then the judgment for annihilation is made. It is the return of the Adjuster that determines identity. (At least in our order of being).

 

If there is any flicker of personality reality left in a person, a whisper of a soul still present, then there are enough mercy credits to assure survival until the final decision is made by the whole personality.

 

All that notwithstanding, I think you are correct when you say that slothfulness of the spiritual life will find a reckoning day. Once one enters the kingdom by faith, actual work is required in order to stay there.

 

Hot diggity dawg Bonita! I totally agree! And to further by another quote that I came across while reading another topic is:

 

(1915.4)176:2.7 "Do you not perceive that, when each of you is called to lay down his life struggle and pass through the portal of death, you stand in the immediate presence of judgment, and that you are face to face with the facts of a new dispensation of service in the eternal plan of the infinite Father? What the whole world must face as a literal fact at the end of an age, you, as individuals, must each most certainly face as a personal experience when you reach the end of your natural life and thereby pass on to be confronted with the conditions and demands inherent in the next revelation of the eternal progression of the Father’s kingdom.”

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Yea see I guess I look at this all slightly differently. I look at it as though the soul choose's survival and that if someone's soul does not self identify with spiritual reality's their soul will chose material reality ie death. If they have lived longed lives "IMO" and never had much for human value's or morale's I cannot see them surviving because of their soul. Though they definitely would have to sin to not have any value's or morale's at the end of their life.

I mean I am sure every human being in their personality want's to go to the mansion world I just don't think that when you die you can just say "beam me up scotty", I think that your mind and personality are not there and your soul choose's survival. There is a quote about this I just dont' have time this mornign to find it.

 

The survival of mortal creatures is wholly predicated on the evolvement of an immortal soul within the mortal mind. (404.3) 36:6.5

 

The human mind does not well stand the conflict of double allegiance. It is a severe strain on the soul to undergo the experience of an effort to serve both good and evil.

 

A stagnant soul is a dying soul Jesus, (1478.4) 133:6.5

 

1234.1) 112:5.12 There is something real, something of human evolution, something additional to the Mystery Monitor, which survives death. This newly appearing entity is the soul, and it survives the death of both your physical body and your material mind. This entity is the conjoint child of the combined life and efforts of the human you in liaison with the divine you, the Adjuster. This child of human and divine parentage constitutes the surviving element of terrestrial origin; it is the morontia self, the immortal soul.

 

(1234.3) 112:5.14 At death the functional identity associated with the human personality is disrupted through the cessation of vital motion. Human personality, while transcending its constituent parts, is dependent on them for functional identity.

Edited by boomshuka

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Yea see I guess I look at this all slightly differently. I look at it as though the soul choose's survival and that if someone's soul does not self identify with spiritual reality's their soul will chose material reality ie death. If they have lived longed lives "IMO" and never had much for human value's or morale's I cannot see them surviving because of their soul. Though they definitely would have to sin to not have any value's or morale's at the end of their life.

I mean I am sure every human being in their personality want's to go to the mansion world I just don't think that when you die you can just say "beam me up scotty", I think that your mind and personality are not there and your soul choose's survival. There is a quote about this I just dont' have time this mornign to find it.

 

Hi Boom, all,

 

I think it is a mind choice. A person can choose to do the will of God or rescind it any time and reject survival at any time before fusion with the Adjuster.

 

P. 1218 - §9
The mistakes of mortal mind and the errors of human conduct may markedly delay the evolution of the soul, although they cannot inhibit such a morontia phenomenon when once it has been initiated by the indwelling Adjuster with the consent of the creature will. But at any time prior to mortal death this same material and human will is empowered to rescind such a choice and to reject survival. Even after survival the ascending mortal still retains this prerogative of choosing to reject eternal life; at any time before fusion with the Adjuster the evolving and ascending creature can choose to forsake the will of the Paradise Father. Fusion with the Adjuster signalizes the fact that the ascending mortal has eternally and unreservedly chosen to do the Father's will.

 

All the best,

Meredith

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Getting down to fundamentals, it is neither the soul nor the mind that chooses. Only the personality has free will. Only the personality can choose. Only the personality can make decisions.

 

Choices are made in the arena of mind and personality uses mind to implement its free will. Mind does not choose, personality chooses within mind. Personality is resident in the mind circuits. The soul is co-created from the mind and the Adjuster through the decisions made by the personality, but the soul does not have decision making powers of its own. The soul cannot be used to make decisions until after death when it becomes the basis for the new mind; all it can do during one's earthly life is reinforce the decisions made by personality. If the personality reaches a certain level of soul consciousness it can then choose to identify with the soul, the morontia mind, and delegate decision making to take place in the arena of soul rather than the arena of mind. Using the soul as an implement of decision making allows contact with Adjuster pre-will and pre-personality, augmented by the will and personality of the individual. (Also known as doing the will of God.)

 

111:3.2 During the life in the flesh the evolving soul is enabled to reinforce the supermaterial decisions of the mortal mind. The soul, being supermaterial, does not of itself function on the material level of human experience. Neither can this subspiritual soul, without the collaboration of some spirit of Deity, such as the Adjuster, function above the morontia level.
Neither does the soul make final decisions until death or translation divorces it from material association with the mortal mind except when and as this material mind delegates such authority freely and willingly to such a morontia soul of associated function.
During life the mortal will, the
personality power of decision-choice, is resident in the material mind circuits; as terrestrial mortal growth proceeds, this self, with its priceless powers of choice, becomes increasingly identified with the emerging morontia-soul entity
; after death and following the mansion world resurrection, the human personality is completely identified with the morontia self. The soul is thus the embryo of the future morontia vehicle of personality identity.

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