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Urantia Book Forum, conversations with other readers

-Scott-

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Everything posted by -Scott-

  1. Yea you bring up a good point..Hmmm I just had a thought, what if our scientists instead of recognizing the outward expansion of the universe as evidence of a big bang are interpreting the counter-clockwise rotation of the 1st outer space level as evidence of the big bang? This 1st level of counter-clockwise rotation would probably be more obvious than the expansion of the universe. Especially considering we are moving in opposite direction of it. It could also explain why scientists are looking at a big chunk of universes in outer space as being closer to the center of the universe than we are. Those universes would probably also become less and less visible as they are viewing it at the edge of that massive black energy void around Havona. There would be only a tiny congregation of universes, because the rest would be cut off from view due to a massive black void that is surrounding Havona. That could also explain why the big bang appears to be speeding up as we look far out in the other direction towards where the rotation is heading, that expansion may be more apparent as these universes circle around away from view counter-clockwise. Also if you think about it if the entire universe is in an expanding phase, it may be much more difficult to detect than the obvious procession of 70 thousand plus universes moving counter-clockwise as we move clockwise.
  2. Regarding government IMO the authors seem to hint that this government on a neighbouring world is just slightly ahead of our government. IMO the urantia book itself is going to help solve much of these issues once people start reading it. I just hope that it is North America (Canada) included that gets a handle on this book before there is another major war. I don't see any economic system fixing our issues, at least not until the urantia book becomes widespread. IMO we are in for a bumpy ride until that happens, IMO the urantia book is here because our civilization has ceased growing in the past 100 years. IMO it really is an emergency revelation.
  3. Yea this quote was one I was trying to use to explain how a human being has two selves. The mortal self will die, and the soul-self will survive and luckily for most human beings we all have adjusters so we all have a higher self that will survive death. Jesus' human self died, but his acquired soul-self is now presumabley "residing in the bosom of the father".
  4. I don't think he is a "person" at least not how we understand that word. Even his presence on Paradise is just a small fraction of him IMO, the adventure to discover more of him will go on forever IMO we will never discover all of this amazing "person" and that will keep us excited forever. IMO. IMO it would be a huge mistake to imagine god as some stick man person standing in the center of paradise. That is just what I believe though. IMO God is a "person" in some incredible sense that is beyond anything we could possibly imagine, and IMO he is infinitely more than just this person of the Father in Paradise.
  5. Jesus talked about the pitfalls of other religions, so I am sure if he can have that conversation so can we. We have the u.b to help us differentiate between what is true and what is false at least generally speaking. I also think that is one of the benefits of study groups. That conversation can happen freely without worry amongst fellow readers. I have always payed extra attention to the parts in the u.b that may relate to new-age. I have always tried to understand how mysticism and new-age stuff fits with the u.b and at first I thought it was only those new-age people who were prone to falling into the pitfalls of mysticism but the more I have studied this topic the more I have came to realize that I actually have fallen into many of these pitfalls as well. After reading the u.b a bunch of times I figured that I was well on my way to experiencing "true religion" but I have come to found out that I haven't actually experienced that yet and my so-called religious experiences are actually more like mystic meditations. So some times we can eat some serious humble pie the more we dig into this stuff. I know I have. IMO the only way to experience True Religion is through the utilization of those 3 innate cosmic intuitions. Which it is sad to record that so few human beings are....(16:6.9) and I do not consider myself one of the "few" that are.
  6. An attempt to experience spirit. Spirit is unity. Our mind can run wild with imaginative thoughts of spirit, even when we are not actually experiencing it. We can confuse those daydreams of spirit as genuine religous experience IMO. It just makes sense IMO that if we get carried away with our imaginative thoughts of a unity substance that our tendancy to view reality will just be from a unity perspective where we blur everything together.
  7. What I find interesting though, is that many mystics seem to experience something in common and that is a profound sense of unity. They seem to blur reality together when they get a sense of unity IMO. We know that spirit is unity so I think what they are actually experiencing is just some mental illusion or mirage of what spiritual reality is. Though to say new-agers are the only mystics would be a lie. I have stated that I don't believe that I have had any many personal religious experiences so I am sure that I have had many of my own mystic illusions. Of coarse Jesus never had any mystic illusion or psychic delusion.
  8. BUMB BUMP---- Show is starting in 3 minutes. We are talking about Jesus today yet again, and covering some topics about morality and ethics as well.
  9. I think it is safe for us to evaluate other religions and in fact it is helpful in our discussion of the u.b. IMO there is actually a lot more danger in just accepting everything as spiritually useful information. The u.b often evaluates aspects of other religions, often times those evaluations are not positive so I think its safe to say we are supposed to use that information to help us. All the writings in the u.b that deal with mysticism and talk about the mystic state IMO are directly tied into the core of many new-age beliefs. I think the key is to be as wise as a serpent about this stuff and as harmful as a dove .
  10. There is some interesting simalirities between what Lucifer was doing and some new-age belief. The concept that you are god, and that you are a well-spring of divinity instead of God and the adjuster is something that comes up a lot, that is similar to what Lucifer was about IMO. There is a lot of mysticism involved with new age that the u.b seems to touch on as well. All in all though I have found a lot of new-agers open to reading the urantia book. I even was a new-ager before I read the urantia book.
  11. Yea I honestly do not believe even if a pre-adjuster childs fate is dependent on a parent surviving, that many parents fail to survive. To be iniqitous is incredibly difficult and someone would have to spend massive chunks of their life choosing something that they know is bad. I doubt there are many mothers at all like this. Fathers maybe is a slightly different story though haha, those male serial killers and some of those male murderers may have terminated their passport. A soul cannot be destroyed by ignorance . At least not in this life. I think slightly more is expected of us on the mansion worlds though.
  12. Yes . The u.b is a challenge to decipher and I think it is this way by design. Can't fault an honest effort on both our parts. Regarding one of your original questions of "personality identification" I will probably open up a thread on truthbook.org to continue that conversation later. I am going to leave the contraversial topics for later on this site.
  13. @Absonite the personality recorders, record our individual existence as individual beings at birth in the universe records and I provided a quote that explains that there are children who have not attained status as individuals on the universe records..... IMO that is as clear cut as the u.b gets. You are free to think about this how you like though.
  14. Yea its hard to believe that this could ever happen. But I do not personally believe that very many mothers fail to awake in the mansion world. IMO 99.999999999 percent of mothers survive this life. "The hand that rocks the cradle fraternizes with destiny". I believe that all those quotes about soul and personality survival are meant also for the mansion world as well. But yes I love kids , and so did Jesus. IMO it's because in truth they are personalities, even if factually that personality has not functioned yet.
  15. @Alina that process of caring for a pre-adjuster child is mentioned a few times in the u.b as happening only after etleast one parent has awakened on the mansion world. There is no mention in the book of these children surviving where no parent has awakened on mansion world. These pre-adjuster children in terms of survival "are considered still attached to their biological parents". There maybe some other record that keeps track of children who have not been "born" yet I am not aware of who these beings may be though. I also agree that many children appear to function at the same level as many adults. I think in truth all potentials have been actualized in eternity, so even if factually they don't have a personality in truth they do. If that makes any sense. From a time perspective we may not observe a personality, but in eternity because all potentials are actualized that child is the same as us in truth. IMO
  16. @Absonite, what do you think about this connection between 37.3.7 and 47.2.1? .Where it says that these infant-recieving worlds are home to children who have not yet acquired individual status on the universe records? IMO this shows that a probationary world takes in those children who have not yet been "born" yet as the authors mean "born" in 37.3.7. 37.3.7 IMO indicates that these personality recorders, record the individual status on the universe records of all children.. IMO this issue becomes more clear when the author states that at "material birth" a child gains physical entity but they don't mention anything else being gained...IMO material birth does not initiate some magical process where personality finds its way to infants. IMO once a child becomes a seperate being from its parents that personality can engage it because its an individual. IMO when a child is attached to its parent its survival is linked to those parents because it is not a seperate functioning reality apart from its parents. IMO personality can engage individual mind energy systems. 49.6.12 A child acquires physical entity at mortal birth, but in the matter of survival all Adjusterless children are reckoned as still attached to their parents.
  17. (1209.1) 110:6.1 The sum total of personality realization on a material world is contained within the successive conquest of the seven psychic circles of mortal potentiality. Entrance upon the seventh circle marks the beginning of true human personality function
  18. [Admin edit] I will just post these quotes, and people can make of them what they want... 409.4) 37:3.7 The Worlds of the Archangels. The seventh group of the encircling Salvington worlds, with their associated satellites, is assigned to the archangels. Sphere number one and all of its six tributary satellites are occupied by the personality record keepers. This enormous corps of recorders busy themselves with keeping straight the record of each mortal of time from the moment of birth up through the universe career until such an individual either leaves Salvington for the superuniverse regime or is “blotted out of recorded existence” by the mandate of the Ancients of Days. So we have personality record keepers, who record the birth of an individual. They literally record the beginning of that personal being. 531.5) 47:2.1 The infant-receiving schools of Satania are situated on the finaliter world, the first of the Jerusem transition-culture spheres. These infant-receiving schools are enterprises devoted to the nurture and training of the children of time, including those who have died on the evolutionary worlds of space before the acquirement of individual status on the universe records. (Before the acquirement of individual status on the universe records). Yet in (37.3.7) we are told that at the moment of our birth there is a record of us from one of these personality record keepers, who are universe record keepers. …..So either the urantia book is contradicting itself, or the authors don’t mean “birth” in the sense of “material birth”49.6.12. IMO what is really happening is that those children who died before getting an adjuster have not attained individual status on the universe records 47:2.1In the event of the survival of either or both of such a child’s parents, the guardian of destiny deputizes her associated cherubim as the custodian of the child’s potential identity.” (570.1) 49:6.12 Children who die when too young to have Thought Adjusters are repersonalized on the finaliter world of the local systems concomitant with the arrival of either parent on the mansion worlds. A child acquires physical entity at mortal birth, but in the matter of survival all Adjusterless children are reckoned as still attached to their parents.
  19. 409.4) 37:3.7 The Worlds of the Archangels. The seventh group of the encircling Salvington worlds, with their associated satellites, is assigned to the archangels. Sphere number one and all of its six tributary satellites are occupied by the personality record keepers. This enormous corps of recorders busy themselves with keeping straight the record of each mortal of time from the moment of birth up through the universe career until such an individual either leaves Salvington for the superuniverse regime or is “blotted out of recorded existence” by the mandate of the Ancients of Days. So we have personality record keepers, who record the birth of an individual. They literally record the beginning of that personal being. 531.5) 47:2.1 The infant-receiving schools of Satania are situated on the finaliter world, the first of the Jerusem transition-culture spheres. These infant-receiving schools are enterprises devoted to the nurture and training of the children of time, including those who have died on the evolutionary worlds of space before the acquirement of individual status on the universe records. (Before the acquirement of individual status on the universe records). Ie These pre-adjuster infants have not yet been recorded as individuals by these universe record keepers! Yet in (37.3.7) we are told that at the moment of our birth there is a record of us from one of these personality record keepers, who are universe record keepers. So either the urantia book is contradicting itself, or the authors don’t mean “birth” in the sense of “material birth”49.6.12. What is really happening is that the authors don't mean "born" in the same sense that they mean "material birth". This proves my point . 47:2.1In the event of the survival of either or both of such a child’s parents, the guardian of destiny deputizes her associated cherubim as the custodian of the child’s potential identity. That child who has not been born yet does not have an identity yet. Nor does it have a soul, or a thought adjuster or a personality. When the authors are using the word “born” in this instance they are not talking about “mortal birth”. The whole conundrum is that the probationary world is not just a world where born children go to, it is also a world where those children who are not born yet go to, etleast that is once one of their parents wake up. Assuming one does. (570.1) 49:6.12 Children who die when too young to have Thought Adjusters are repersonalized on the finaliter world of the local systems concomitant with the arrival of either parent on the mansion worlds. A child acquires physical entity at mortal birth, but in the matter of survival all Adjusterless children are reckoned as still attached to their parents. “In the matter of survival” ie. Their survival depends on one of their parents being there because they are still “attached” to them. They have not acquired individuality at yet. They are not an individual. Thus these angels are not even making a record of them as having even been born yet!
  20. Yea thats right Van! I think I proved in that quote above that when every child is born they are recorded on the universe records as an individual ......Now that I have everyone in agreement on that I can move on with the gist of it .
  21. Let me see if I can convince ya'll another way . Please be patient with me on this one, and (Van) thanks for your patience, honesty and kindness I appreciate you and what you have to say very much . I just want to make it clear I don't dislike anyone on here even Bonita, these forums are rough and tumble and maybe I should tone down my aggresive approach. I am planning on taking a break from these forums after I finish talking about this subject, to let myself and others cool down. Cooler heads always prevail . Anyways let me just introduce something different to this conversation. 409.4) 37:3.7 The Worlds of the Archangels. The seventh group of the encircling Salvington worlds, with their associated satellites, is assigned to the archangels. Sphere number one and all of its six tributary satellites are occupied by the personality record keepers. This enormous corps of recorders busy themselves with keeping straight the record of each mortal of time from the moment of birth up through the universe career until such an individual either leaves Salvington for the superuniverse regime or is “blotted out of recorded existence” by the mandate of the Ancients of Days. (409.5) 37:3.8 It is on these worlds that personality records and identification sureties are classified, filed, and preserved during that time which intervenes between mortal death and the hour of repersonalization, the resurrection from death. So can we etleast agree that these personality record keepers, keep the record of every mortal at the moment of birth? Also since these are personality record keepers clearly there is personality at the moment of "birth" right? Etleast that is what it looks like from reading these paragraphs. In fact it seems the moment that there is personality, we are recorded. Also we can safely say that we are encircuited by the holy spirit at our birth. We must also be considered individuals if we have a personality. Not just some entity or animal-origin temporal being, but a real bona-fide human personality that is recorded by the universe records. Some of you may know where I am going with this.....
  22. @Van, lets try and break down these paragraphs about children down slowly without an emotional attachment and try and figure out what they authors are meaning....It seems that both paragraphs I provided indicate that either one or the other parent needs to arrive on the mansion world before this child can awaken, the author even uses the word "concotimant"...The first few times I read these paragraphs I didn't want to believe it though. The more I looked into this issue the more apparent it became that a pre-adjuster child is severly dependent on its parent, to the point that it needs etleast one parent for survival. I haven't done a ton of research into just why this is, even though in my study group chris talked about a pre-adjuster child being dependent on the mindal energy system of their parents, but because I haven't researched this myself I won't get into it, but I think if we read these quotes without an emotional attachment it should be clear. Also the chances of both parents not making it to the mansion worlds is incredibly remote, so I doubt this rearly happens.
  23. Children who die when too young to have Thought Adjusters are repersonalized on the finaliter world of the local systems concomitant with the arrival of either parent on the mansion worlds. A child acquires physical entity at mortal birth, but in the matter of survival all Adjusterless children are reckoned as still attached to their parents. ~ The Urantia Book, (49:6.12) If we have talked about this paragraph before, why would you then write this? Clearly this paragraph and the other one show that a child who dies before getting an adjuster, where both parents fail to survive, that child will not live again. I move at my own speed. You are going to have to wait longer I have a busy day . But don't worry I will get around to talking more about this.
  24. You are making assumptions of how I view this situation. Also I find it ironic that you left out that whole new quote about a child not awakening on the mansion worlds....
  25. That is exactly what the quote says I am sure these celestial beings can recognize when it is an active and functional reality.
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