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Posts posted by -Scott-

  1. I find coming on here and going on study groups helps me because I am more interested in what others think. I don't form my viewpoints based just on what I think, I feel that others opinions are just as valid as mine. I think there is a trap that we can fall into where we may read the u.b and think to ourself well all that matters is "how I feel about this". I don't feel like creating my own authority over the u.b so I try and keep myself as open as possible to seeing the u.b from other viewpoints as much as possible, and if someone else has made a creative thought that matches up with the u.b I will take that truth wherever it may come from, I don't feel like this is a bad thing. If the universe IS, than whatever truth exists pertaining to the universe is not just true to someone else but all people IMO. If someone provides some insight into error,evil and sin that matches up with the urantia book I won't ignore it because "its not my truth" or because I didn't discover it. I think that is silly/selfish even a act of "self-assertion" to think that way.

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  2. It can not be forced or in us, because that would use violence against ourselves! and obviously, on the others persons.There is much to discover here.Because, too often, the mistake of giving other thing we know is we want one product of personal brilliance, to show others how much we know! and actually that's no good.

    If anything we have, of course it is to share, but with the sincere hope that it will be useful to someone, and there is no danger of forcing, because if not the time, the words go long or are as a blank paper, when we write. is different to be together with someone, and we insist... insist ... :D for convince of our ideas. Error :)

    It's like spreading of UB.



    Yeap I agree no one should be forced to believe in anything. No doubt the desire to sound smart can hurt us, thats why I admit that a lot of my understandings come from study sessions and I am not responsible for picking out all these connections in the u.b :). Apparently there was a message given to the original contact group to form study groups as well.

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  3. @Alina those are great quotes especially for this topic. They definitely deal with this.


    The authors suggest that we can misuse, distort and perverse the finite. Not all evil and sin is the classical physical act of evil that is often portrayed in movies. The authors are suggesting IMO that the distortion of reality is where we can begin to develop evil. The type of sin that Lucifer was committing IMO was way above the level of typical forms of evil and sin that we are used to thinking about as a world. The urantia book states that evolution is creativity in time.



    (105:6.5) 4. The divinity response to the imperfection inherent in the time lag of evolution is disclosed in the compensating presence of God the Sevenfold, by whose activities that which is perfecting is integrated with both the perfect and the perfected. This time lag is inseparable from evolution, which is creativity in time.


    The recognition of the time element of finite reality is paramount to our safety IMO, recognizing how reality relates to time will to keep us safe from sin IMO. I think some first time readers may look at this quote below and think well what is the real danger in being both a perfecting creature of time and having this spiritual consciousness that can set us free.


    (1222.1) 111:6.2 The courage required to effect the conquest of nature and to transcend one’s self is a courage that might succumb to the temptations of self-pride. The mortal dilemma consists in the double fact that man is in bondage to nature while at the same time he possesses a unique liberty — freedom of spiritual choice and action. On material levels man finds himself subservient to nature, while on spiritual levels he is triumphant over nature and over all things temporal and finite. Such a paradox is inseparable from temptation, potential evil, decisional errors, and when self becomes proud and arrogant, sin may evolve.


    The major dilemma IMO of having these two perspectives of the spiritual and material is that spiritual consciousness by itself has no recognition of time. Its fundamentally idealistic and when it see's some ideal it desires it right now. Our material consciousness is fundamentally aware of time, IMO its up to us to weave the two viewpoints together so that we have a true relationship to reality. An atheist will never be in peril of falling for some of the sophistries of the Lucifer rebellion because he/she has never used his/her spiritual consciousness. A lot of these sophistries that could result in our death await peoples recognition as they become more spiritual in their thinking. Its when we start becoming more spiritually aware that some of these nasty sophistries of the rebellion can potentially be acted on IMO. If we are attempting to get rid of the time element from reality by way of idealistic thinking, or attempting to rid someone else's relationship to time because our own ideals compel us to, we are acting disloyal to our relationship to Deity IMO. At first our impatience and desire to short circuit time may be just "disloyalty to deity" and we are not really fully aware of what we are doing, but at some point we will really slip up and be face to face with a decision in which we make a deliberate choice to be disloyal to deity by deliberately purposing that evil in our minds.


    What I mean by confuse though is that I picture sort of a flow of truth which is liquid mixed/confused with another liquid (falsehood) and this liquid flows through time because we are creatures of time and space. And then as that mixture of both truth and falsehood is given form in our minds we create literal space in our minds or literal disruption/ a breaking apart in our consciousness. Then finally as we purpose that evil and deliberate on it we weigh it against truth and choose to disrupt our relationship to finite reality on purpose, at which point we are sinning. The u.b seems to indicate that one of the quickest ways to sin is through the real nasty sophistry brought to our world called false liberty. With false liberty it does not necessarily have to be that we are overly in love with our self. It can be much simpler than that, it can just start with pure impatience. A spiritually aware person can become impatient and want liberty right now. At that point that person has to catch themselves and be really careful that they don't try and liberate their self or others from the over-control of Deity by trying to short circuit time.


    - (54:1.4) Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships


    The others usually don't call anything suicidal. They seem to be suggesting IMO literal suicide or self-destruction. All someone has to be barren of is some of these attributes of material justice, intellctual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty and spiritual values to come suicide through false liberty.


    54:1.2.True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress.

    False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space.

    Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity


    A human being can just as easily attempt to short-circuit time for their self or others, we don't have to be a high spiritual being to commit this sophistry.


    54:2.3.Lucifer's folly was the attempt to do the nondoable, to short-circuit time in an experiential universe


    Of coarse at the same time we don't want to go to slow.


    - (39:4.12) These seraphim teach the fruitfulness of patience: That stagnation is certain death, but that overrapid growth is equally suicidal; that as a drop of water from a higher level falls to a lower and, flowing onward, passes ever downward through a succession of short falls, so ever upward is progress in the morontia and spirit worlds—and just as slowly and by just such gradual stages.


    These are just some of the ideas I have regarding this topic, a lot of my understanding of this situation has come via study groups on tuesday afternoons from this show (symmetryofsoul.org). There is a archive on their website and they have a lot of shows dedicated to talking about the rebellion and this topic. So no I haven't made all these connections on my own in case anyone is wondering lol. But I am using my own words to describe how I feel about this.

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  4. I think there is a correlation between this paragraph and error, evil, sin and iniquity.


    1 - (118:7.7) Subpersonal living things indicate mind activating energy-matter, first as physical controllers, and then as adjutant mind-spirits. Personality endowment comes from the Father and imparts unique prerogatives of choice to the living system. But if personality has the prerogative of exercising volitional choice of reality identification, and if this is a true and free choice, then must evolving personality also have the possible choice of becoming self-confusing, self-disrupting, and self-destroying. The possibility of cosmic self-destruction cannot be avoided if the evolving personality is to be truly free in the exercise of finite will.


    I take this as: error (self-confusing), evil (self-disrupting) sin (self-destroying) and Iniquity (self-destruction).


    So on one hand in regards to error and evil. Error is both (self-confusing) and (the error of time) and with evil there is the evil of space and the fact that its self-disrupting.


    54:1.2.True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress.

    False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space.

    Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity


    Just trying to make sense of how we could perhaps visualize just what the error of time and the evil of space would look like, the u.b describes time as succession of instants or moments (118:3.1)for time is a succession of instants while space is a system of associated points.


    "The error of time" seems to suggests to me IMO that if truth is flowing through time that if it were to be mixed or (confused) with falsehood that this would be error, even the word confuse is related to a pouring together. IMO If we were then to try and give that error form in our minds we would probably end up with (self-disruption) which is the creation of space or the (evil of space). Dis is literally related to breaking apart or creating space. Than IMO if we were to take that evil even further and deliberate on it and than choose it after deliberation we begin to purpose that evil, than we would be committing sin or "self-destroying" IMO. Deliberate is related to weighing, in this case it probably relates to choosing to purpose good or purpose that evil disrupting form in our mind. IMO with committing sin it would involve the adjuster literally tearing down our soul as we choose destruction. Finally when there is nothing left of the soul we have self-destruction/iniquity, a empty vessel where the soul used to be.

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  5. @Alina Yea the impatience of Eve definitely hurt and it would seem that impatience greatly influenced Lucifer as well. Patience is definitely the key I think to at least having a good and safe foundation. I think from our purely spiritual viewpoint we see something ideal and we want it now and we can tend to forget about time.


    54:4.4.Most of the liberties which Lucifer sought he already had; others he was to receive in the future. All these precious endowments were lost by giving way to impatience and yielding to a desire to possess what one craves now and to possess it in defiance of all obligation to respect the rights and liberties of all other beings composing the universe of universes. Ethical obligations are innate, divine, and universal.


    What is also interesting to me at least is that the Divine Minister (Local Mother Spirit) made it as easy and even provided "unlimited opportunity" for sin expression as a means of curing it. Luckily or unluckily in our society there is ample opportunity for sin expression hahah. At least we have that part accomplished.


    54:5.11.10. The Divine Minister of Salvington issued as her third independent proclamation a mandate directing that nothing be done to half cure, cowardly suppress, or otherwise hide the hideous visage of rebels and rebellion. The angelic hosts were directed to work for full disclosure and unlimited opportunity for sin-expression as the quickest technique of achieving the perfect and final cure of the plague of evil and sin.

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  6. Dear Alina,


    Wars have always been hard on the individual. For women war is terrible. This has been so since civilizations has come into being.

    Unfortunately, there will always be mortals, who like Lucifer, want to rule with a heavy hand. We defeat one and another appears. The battle against tyranny is perhaps endless until TUB finds its way into more hearts. We fight a different kind of war. We carry the message of the Father of Love. Love removes hate and hate is the father of war. Dictators are selfish and egotistical. They rise up from deformed ideas of "liberty." Every generation has its rulers who want to "hurry" the process of governing with policies that eventually always lead to wars. Whether to take land form others, push their religious beliefs, or just to be powerful over others, evil dictates their purposes. Love is not. I love the 5th Epochal Revelation, TUB, because it teaches us that we are each and everyone known and loved. We are special and no matter who says not, we KNOW what we KNOW.


    Faith sister,




    Physical war, slavery and communism actually as confusing as it is to our ideals and spiritual consciousness, really has nothing to do with the lucifer rebellion. In fact war, slavery and communism are indispensable to advancing civilization. They are necessary experiential roadblocks put there for us to overcome. It would "false liberty" to actually go to other tribal nations and try and "Liberate" them from their freedom to overcome these indispensables. As confusing as it is, barbaric countries have the right to war, dictatorship and slavery because they need to learn to overcome that stuff on their own. We can't short circuit time and force our own more advanced way of life on them. Its really not our battle to police the world, in fact it would be a sin to try and liberate these barbaric

    Nations from these indispensables. The irony is that we would be falling for a sophistry of the lucifer rebellion if we thought our job was to liberate all these other nations from their evolutional challenges that were put in place by deity. We should not attempt to short curcuit their evolution. That is the alure of sophistry, from a purely spiritual idealistic stand point it seems so tempting. Obviously we can still use war as a means of defence against these barbaric nations though.


    - (69:9.2) Primitive communism did not especially level men down, nor did it exalt mediocrity, but it did put a premium on inactivity and idleness, and it did stifle industry and destroy ambition. Communism was indispensable scaffolding in the growth of primitive society, but it gave way to the evolution of a higher social order because it ran counter to four strong human proclivities:


    45 - (69:8.6) Slavery was an indispensable link in the chain of human civilization. It was the bridge over which society passed from chaos and indolence to order and civilized activities; it compelled backward and lazy peoples to work and thus provide wealth and leisure for the social advancement of their superiors.


    (70:2.9)War has served many valuable purposes in the past, it has been an indispensable scaffolding in the building of civilization, but it is rapidly becoming culturally bankrupt—incapable of producing dividends of social gain in any way commensurate with the terrible losses attendant upon its invocation.


    - (70:2.9)War has had a certain evolutionary and selective value, but like slavery, it must sometime be abandoned as civilization slowly advances.

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  7. I think one of the benefits of the u.b is that we know we can be patient, and live as patient persons. If people knew that civilization evolves in due time I am sure that would help stop some of the desire for dramatic false liberation. They could realize that all the gifts they desire will come to them when the time is right. Jesus said "my time has not yet come" or something to that effect, he was the perfect example of a human who was in harmony with the Supreme.


    Of course our spiritual consciousness in and of itself is not aware of time it takes a cosmic approach to be able to perceive the flow of truth in time. A person who just thinks with ideals will want change now and right now.

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  8. Scott, please explain to me, do not know what is Liberation Theology? :o


    It is a movement that started in South America that seeks to Liberate people from all forms of "perceived injustice" whether it be social inequality/ bad social conditions, financial inequality/conditions, political inequality etc. Its really a similar sort of idea that Lucifer had, Lucifer wanted to "liberate" all the men and angels from perceived inequality, and he also wanted to liberate beings from going through the experiential process of overcoming their trials and tribulations. The similarities between the ideas of Liberation Theology and the Lucifer Rebellion is really interesting IMO. The advocates of Liberation Theology want to take away all the stimulating challenges that "perceived victims" face. Obviously it doesn't include all of Lucifer's ideas but I think its fascinating the ones that are there.


    The exact quote from wikipedia on Liberation Theology is that it seeks "liberation from unjust economic, political, or social conditions". The thing is that those "conditions" are part of the evolutionary indispensables that where put into plan by Deity, and are meant to be there so that we can experientially overcome them in time. Our angelic care-takers could intervene and make our world paradise and liberate us from all our challenges but that would be sin, that is one of the ideas that Lucifer put forward. This Liberation Theology like Lucifer completely ignore time. Its very a very inviting notion to want to be liberated RIGHT NOW, and not await the natural experiential flow of truth through time.

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  9. Alina: Could we fall into the void, without even realizing it?It seems to me that to know ourselves, (lower part of yo "egocentrism") to get degrees higher would be like " separate the tares (defects, errors) of the wheat (truth) "

    Our Spirit Thought Adjuster can not guide us if our hearts and minds are not "reasonably" harmonized,that is, within our current possibilities.


    Hey Alina, the path to Lucifer is open to all of us as well. We live on a sin stricken world (55:5.1) Mortal creatures living on a sin-stricken, evil-dominated, self-seeking, isolated world, such as Urantia So clearly there is a lot of sinning going on and on our planet we have the added benefit of having thought adjusters and the spirit of truth so we can really grab a hold of these same sophistries that lucifer did.


    I believe the authors give an example here in the paragraph below of just what they mean by self-assertion. It would seem that self-assertion in Lucifers case was really as simple as asserting his so called "liberty", but here is my take on this: Lucifer wanted to make a confederation, which is what will happen when we are in light and life (all systems will be equal and together in one confederation) right now we have federations and a heirarchy. He wanted all the benefits of light and life right now, he also believed that all beings are equal, and even all universes equal. He didn't believe in a hierarchy. He wanted every being to stand on equal footing and he wanted mortals to be allowed to forgo the evolutionary experience. Really he was like a fat kid in a candy store wanting all the treats at this very instant with no effort required. When all the Universes are settled in life and light, we will basically be at the point at which Lucifer craved. He really foolishly believed that his mind was just as divine as any of the other universe rulers haha, he thought that all beings could self-govern and be equal. This is why so many spiritual beings were attracted to his sophistry is because he took a truth such as what will happen at light and life and sought to "liberate" everyone to that point in an instant, and he even foolishly believed that his mind and other spiritual beings had innate divinity, he even thought beings like the ancient of days were his equal. The Ancient of Days in the u.b is described as the most powerful finite beings, they even over ride Michael in terms of authority, the fact that Lucifer actually thought he was equal to one of these beings just shows how delusional he was.


    That is just part of it though, obviously there is much more...


    (53:4.2)Self-assertion was the battle cry of the Lucifer rebellion. One of his chief arguments was that, if self-government was good and right for the Melchizedeks and other groups, it was equally good for all orders of intelligence. He was bold and persistent in the advocacy of the "equality of mind" and "the brotherhood of intelligence." He maintained that all government should be limited to the local planets and their voluntary confederation into the local systems. All other supervision he disallowed. He promised the Planetary Princes that they should rule the worlds as supreme executives. He denounced the location of legislative activities on the constellation headquarters and the conduct of judicial affairs on the universe capital. He contended that all these functions of government should be concentrated on the system capitals and proceeded to set up his own legislative assembly and organized his own tribunals under the jurisdiction of Satan. And he directed that the princes on the apostate worlds do the same.



    So the question is how is self-assertion sin? or "delibrate disloyalty to deity". The fact is that evolution is the right of every being in our universe. Obstacles are there because of the divine overcontrol of God, and in our universe God the sevenfold. Lucifer sought to take away the exciting adventure of evolving through experience. We see this on our world all the time, this is why we live on a sin stricken world. Liberty is one of the most dangerous things in the hands of an impatient and immature person. There are many countries who are evolving through the tribal state it would be a sin to attempt to take away their evolutional experience of evolving past this. This would be an attempt to "short-circuit" time and it would be "false-liberty".


    54:1.3.Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled.

    True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity,

    and divine obligations.


    54:1.2.True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress.

    False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space.

    Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity.


    The author mentions false liberty as the error of time and the evil of space. Evolution is creativity in time, Lucifer sought to short-circuit time for all beings therefore he was committing maximum disloyalty. Time and space is there for a reason, its through time and space that we connect to Deity. That is why if we attempt to short-circuit it we are being disloyal.


    (54:2.3) Lucifer's folly was the attempt to do the nondoable, to short-circuit time in an experiential universe. Lucifer's crime was the attempted creative disenfranchisement of every personality in Satania, the unrecognized abridgment of the creature's personal participation—freewill participation—in the long evolutionary struggle to attain the status of light and life both individually and collectively. In so doing this onetime Sovereign of your system set the temporal purpose of his own will directly athwart the eternal purpose of God's will as it is revealed in the bestowal of free will upon all personal creatures. The Lucifer rebellion thus threatened the maximum possible infringement of the freewill choice of the ascenders and servers of the system of Satania—a threat forevermore to deprive every one of these beings of the thrilling experience of contributing something personal and unique to the slowly erecting monument to experiential wisdom which will sometime exist as the perfected system of Satania. Thus does the Lucifer manifesto, masquerading in the habiliments of liberty, stand forth in the clear light of reason as a monumental threat to consummate the theft of personal liberty and to do it on a scale that has been approached only twice in all the history of Nebadon.


    Here are a couple more quotes regarding this topic.


    118:7.4.Sin in time-conditioned space clearly proves the temporal liberty—even license—of the finite will.

    Sin depicts immaturity dazzled by the freedom of the relatively sovereign will of personality while failing to perceive

    the supreme obligations and duties of cosmic citizenship.


    54:1.5.Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness.

    Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination.

    Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the

    forerunner of abject bondage.

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  10. Spirit patterns exist in relation to space. Now, mathematically, what relationship to space exists that is not space? The only one that comes to mind is the relationship of orthogonality. This is what mathematicians refer to imaginary axes, i,j and k. Could it be possible that the spiritual world exists in a domain 90 degrees out of phase with our material world? This is the domain that Einstein and Minkowski had placed time. This was an error, IMO, since TUB clearly states that time and space are inseparable and the two must remain in the same domain. Can we place the spirit domain in what we have invented (discovered) as the 'imaginary planes'?


    There are also a large midway between spirit and matter. I don't think we could place spirit in an imaginary plane in any sense because spirit is substance, its not ether but a real literal substance. A Melchizedeck is a spiritual being, with a spiritual body and spirit consciousness that is very real. The word "material" is kind of a mysterious word IMO because even paradise is "material" there is still matter, and spiritual beings can still walk on matter. Even Paradise beings with spiritual bodies walk on matter.

  11. Just few days ago I was telling my friend a story about little green man of Ireland, and he was astonished :)


    Yea its such a neat story, if we just substitute Adam for Adamson and Eve for Ratta it looks even better :). They had it so close though. Interesting how stories can get passed down thousands of years while still having a large thread of truth.

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  12. LOL I spelled Iceland wrong in the title of this thread, anyways here is an Icelandic Fairy Tale about how Elves came into being. There are a lot of similarities with this story and the actual story of secondary midwayers These "hidden people" are one of the more popular superstitious beliefs in Iceland.



    "Once upon a time, God Almighty came to visit Adam and Eve. They received him with joy, and showed him everything they had in the house. They also brought their children to him which he found promising and full of hope. Then He asked Eve whether she had no other children than these whom she had showed him. She said "None." But it so happened that she had not finished washing them all, and being ashamed to let God see them dirty, she had hidden the unwashed ones. Of course God knew, and there for said angrily to her, "What man hides from God, God will hide from man."


    These unwashed children became invisible, and later found a home in mounds, hills, and rocks. From these are the elves descended, but we men from those of Eve's children whom she had openly and frankly shown to God. And it is only by the will and desire of the elves themselves if humans can ever see them.



    The hidden people can be either friendly or hostile towards humans."

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  13. This seems to be the human source of this quote in the urantia book. Its interesting that the revelators change the word "gods" to a upper case G "Gods". They seem to want to emphasize that it was literally the Gods who blessed mankind and not some superhuman God.


    The Cambridge Ancient History

    THE CAMBRIDGE ANCIENT HISTORY VOL 1---Published 1923 originally--1st volume--chapter 10--

    Stephen H.Langdon


    Sumerian legends locate the land of Paradise, where the gods first blessed mankind with manners of civilized life, in Dilmun on the shore of the Persian Gulf.





    77:4.8.The elaborate records left by the Sumerians describe the site of a remarkable settlement which was located on the Persian Gulf near the earlier city of Dilmun. The Egyptians called this city of ancient glory Dilmat, while the later Adamized Sumerians confused both the first and second Nodite cities with Dalamatia and called all three Dilmun. And already have archaeologists found these ancient Sumerian clay tablets which tell of this earthly paradise "where the Gods first blessed mankind with the example of civilized and cultured life." And these tablets, descriptive of Dilmun, the paradise of men and God, are now silently resting on the dusty shelves of many museums.

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  14. Isn't the unity of the Supreme a future occurrence of evolutionary growth? How can you disrupt something that hasn't happened yet? I would rather say that we have a responsibility to contribute to power-personality synthesis which will one day grow into the unity of the Supreme Being.


    116:1.1 The experience of every evolving creature personality is a phase of the experience of the Almighty Supreme. The intelligent subjugation of every physical segment of the superuniverses is a part of the growing control of the Almighty Supreme. The creative synthesis of power and personality is a part of the creative urge of the Supreme Mind and is the very essence of the evolutionary growth of unity in the Supreme Being.


    This quote seems to indicate that there is still unity, but that it is growing. It would seem that we are contributing to the growth of unity.


    This is a side topic but it would seem that this unification of power and personality has already taken place in Havona. The Supreme is probably the trickiest aspect of the whole book IMO.


    14:6.23.4. The Supreme Being—the evolutionary unification of experiential Deity. The Havona creation is the eternal and perfect proof of the spiritual reality of the Supreme Being. This perfect creation is a revelation of the perfect and symmetrical spirit nature of God the Supreme before the beginnings of the power-personality synthesis of the finite reflections of the Paradise Deities in the experiential universes of time and space.

    14:6.24.In Havona the power potentials of the Almighty are unified with the spiritual nature of the Supreme. This central creation is an exemplification of the future-eternal unity of the Supreme.

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  15. The u.b seems to give a new definition of what this word really means. Here is one quote about it. I am just going to throw out some of my initial thoughts on this subject, this is not meant to be gospel or anything like that.


    (2.2) 0:1.2 DEITY is personalizable as God, is prepersonal and superpersonal in ways not altogether comprehensible by man. Deity is characterized by the quality of unity — actual or potential — on all supermaterial levels of reality; and this unifying quality is best comprehended by creatures as divinity.


    So there is Deity that is personalizable as God. That almost makes it sound like Deity is antecedent to personalized God??


    The Supreme seems to be the finite personalization of Deity.


    (2.11) 0:1.11 The finite level of reality is characterized by creature life and time-space limitations. Finite realities may not have endings, but they always have beginnings — they are created. The Deity level of Supremacy may be conceived as a function in relation to finite existences.


    Interesting that they call it the "Deity level of Supremacy". This paragraph seems to suggest that the finite level is the Deity level of Supremacy. So than perhaps because the fundamental characteristic of Deity is unity this would mean that unity in the finite level of reality is the Deity of Supremacy? So if the finite unity of our planet and of our world is related to the Deity level of the Supreme, than do we not have a responsibility to not disrupt that unity? Hmmm


    (2.9) 0:1.9 6. Supreme — self-experiential and creature-Creator-unifying Deity. Deity functioning on the first creature-identificational level as time-space overcontrollers of the grand universe, sometimes designated the Supremacy of Deity.


    (3.2) 0:1.15 Deity is the source of all that which is divine. Deity is characteristically and invariably divine, but all that which is divine is not necessarily Deity, though it will be co-ordinated with Deity and will tend towards some phase of unity with Deity — spiritual, mindal, or personal.

    (3.3) 0:1.16 DIVINITY is the characteristic, unifying, and co-ordinating quality of Deity.


    It seems that the goal for all organism is to attain cosmic unity, and for us perhaps we attain unity with the Supreme and each other?


    15 - (58:6.8) Through almost endless cycles of gains and losses, adjustments and readjustments, all living organisms swing back and forth from age to age. Those that attain cosmic unity persist, while those that fall short of this goal cease to exist.

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  16. Why is it that the teachings common to the Urantia Book and Hinduism are not found in Christianity and Judaism except in their esoteric forms?


    Well there is sort of a concept of the 3 persons of God as One god in Christianity (Father,Son Spirit). So there is that concept of multiple personalizations of God in Christianity.

  17. And the question becomes: Is the fact of Jesus divinity more important to the human race than his life and teachings?



    1 - (196:1.3) To "follow Jesus" means to personally share his religious faith and to enter into the spirit of the Master's life of unselfish service for man. One of the most important things in human living is to find out what Jesus believed, to discover his ideals, and to strive for the achievement of his exalted life purpose. Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it.

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  18. "A human being is a part of the whole, called by us Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest-a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty."


    Interesting that he thinks of the Universe as a whole, and humans as part of the whole, and he seems to have recognised the harmony of the whole.




    They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres.

    In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise



    I think he views true religion is as wholehearted living.


    "True religion is real living; living with all one’s soul, with all one’s goodness and righteousness."




    do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth.


    That line seems to relate to these quotes.


    (2081.7) 195:8.7 To the secularistic revolt you owe the amazing creativity of American industrialism and the unprecedented material progress of Western civilization. And because the secularistic revolt went too far and lost sight of God and true religion, there also followed the unlooked-for harvest of world wars and international unsettledness.



    (2081.4) 195:8.4 It required a great power, a mighty influence, to free the thinking and living of the Western peoples from the withering grasp of a totalitarian ecclesiastical domination. Secularism did break the bonds of church control, and now in turn it threatens to establish a new and godless type of mastery over the hearts and minds of modern man. The tyrannical and dictatorial political state is the direct offspring of scientific materialism and philosophic secularism. Secularism no sooner frees man from the domination of the institutionalized church than it sells him into slavish bondage to the totalitarian state. Secularism frees man from ecclesiastical slavery only to betray him into the tyranny of political and economic slavery.

  19. Just thought this speech on religion from Einstein was interesting.



    "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details.

    Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.

    My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.

    The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.

    Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.

    The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.

    There is no logical way to the discovery of elemental laws. There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance.

    The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.

    The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.

    We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.

    Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.

    When the solution is simple, God is answering.

    God does not play dice with the universe.

    God is subtle but he is not malicious.

    A human being is a part of the whole, called by us Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest-a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

    Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.

    The man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unfortunate but almost disqualified for life.

    Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.

    Only a life lived for others is a life worth while.

    The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.

    The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.

    What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.

    The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties – this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sentiment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself among profoundly religious men.

    The real problem is in the hearts and minds of men. It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man.

    True religion is real living; living with all one’s soul, with all one’s goodness and righteousness.

    Intelligence makes clear to us the interrelationship of means and ends. But mere thinking cannot give us a sense of the ultimate and fundamental ends. To make clear these fundamental ends and valuations and to set them fast in the emotional life of the individual, seems to me precisely the most important function which religion has to form in the social life of man."


    Here is one more. I like the little bit about "harmony in the cosmos". I wonder if he had some religious experience involving the "individuality of the whole"/harmony of the cosmos.


    "I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth.

    Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source . . . They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres.

    In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support for such views."

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