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Urantia Book Forum, conversations with other readers

Midsoniter woman

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About Midsoniter woman

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  • Birthday 12/05/1971

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  1. I just remembered that the Book of Mormon is also blue. And I met a guy tonight carrying a Narcotics Anonymous, also blue. Weird coincidence.
  2. I always thought that it was just a coincidence that the Urantia Book and the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous are both big and blue, but now there's another blue book also nick named "the blue book." It's called "Schizophrenics Anonymous". No kidding.
  3. Right. Most of us on this forum agree that there is an appropriate time and place for introducing the UB.
  4. I logged onto LDS.org and got an online chat session with a missionary. I anonymously asked him if I would be disfellowshipped for reading The Urantia Book. He said no. His exact words were,"In order to be disfellowshipped, you have to do something really bad." He said I could read whatever I want including the Koran and the Satanic Bible.
  5. Thanks. I put in chickens into YouVersion and a quote came up in Matthew. This is the first Bible search engine that actually worked for me. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
  6. SO there is a difference between popular psychology and the UB! The UB equates self-esteem with John's conceit. So all the psychology obsession with self-love and self-esteem is actually a bad thing. LOL.
  7. Bill said, " I have seen that over-weaning pride, self-assertion and a general lack of self-respect (care for one's own well-being) often go "hand-in-hand" down the road to self-destruction. It starts when one is confronted by the unfair vicissitudes of life's "slings and arrows."" So now I suppose Judas lost his self-respect and self-admiration at Golgotha. So FIRST he had pride and then later, much later on he developed LOW self-respect, BUT he didn't have BOTH at the same time is the point I was trying to make. He had them at two separate times. What I was looking for in the UB is the concept of reverse pride (the tendency to wallow in one's shortcomings) that the 12x12 talks about combined with or causing self-admiration (conceit) and vice versa. And I am right that there's nothing in the UB about those two extremes being combined or causing each other. But I thank Bill for teaching me that a person CAN have both low self-respect and pridefulness. They just don't have them both in the same instant. UNLESS of course, the arrogant pridefulness of Judas to BEGIN WITH caused him to commit such heinous acts which in the end caused the loss of his self-respect entirely, which I'm not convinced of. Because that would make self-esteem like blood sugar of a diabetic. And even if we compare self-esteem to blood sugar, people still either have diabetes or hypoglycemia. They don't have both in the same person at the same time, even though one is often a precurser to the other at different times their life.
  8. Amos too drastic to be bipolar? Perhaps you are right. I am only making up my own diagnosis and I'm not a psychiatrist. But I know bipolars who stay awake for three days at a time walking the streets when they skip their lithium. You are also correct to point out that the topic of self-respect is unrelated to the topic of mental illness. I was telling a story in chronological order. My boyfriend's bipolar disorder caused me to start attending recovery meetings and that is when I was exposed to some popular psychology about self-esteem that I believe to be uncorroborated by the UB. I am not self-diagnosed. I was first diagnosed at age 19, which I disregarded as a bad luck misunderstanding. When I returned from overseas military service I applied for a claim of PTSD and was granted that as well as being told for a second time that I was also schizophrenic. Again I disregarded it an attempt to discredit me. I was very offended. Then I threw my neck out in 2010 and had to apply for 100% disability and during the routine psyche exam was given the same diagnosis for the third time. Again I disregarded it and took it as an attempt to discredit me. That was years ago. Now I'm dating this bipolar guy and have become a believer in psychology for the first time in my life. I've seen this guy get manic where he suddenly talks faster than a normal human. He talks so fast when he's manic you can barely believe he's the same person. Then he crashes and becomes overly negative. I've seen this guy get delusional. I've seen him realize he's been delusional and the embarrassment he goes through. He's the real reason I finally decided to believe in psychology. I also wonder why Kirmeth and the erratic ones did not get the healing from Jesus that Amos did. I believe that Kimeth and the crazy woman would have gotten healing from Jesus if they would have asked for it. Amos asked for help. Amos knew he was afflicted. Amos was humble. So I guess you have to ask for help. Maybe Kirmeth was too self-satisfied. Maybe Kirmeth and the others weren't ready to admit they needed help?
  9. Well, I now understand that I am attracting the mentally ill because I am myself mentally ill. LOL. And I will continue to attract the untreated mentally ill until I myself get treated for my own mental illness. But our dating was a coincidence as we just met in church. He's a Sunday school teacher and his son served a mission and is going to BYU Idaho. My abnormal brain is simply attracting other abnormal brains in the crowd like a magnet. So anyway I'm taking a two month long class that is put on by NAMI and it educates the public about all the mental illnesses and what the brain scans show and so forth. Schizophrenics and bipolars actually have abnormal brain scans. But when they get the proper help, they can be very successful in life. My cousin has the schizophrenia and she is a CEO of her own company. And at least this guy is willing to attend recovery meetings with me.
  10. It is difficult for someone with low self-respect to resist the urge to put others down. There is an urge to disrespect others in order to relieve the pain of one's own low self-respect. Good point.
  11. Hi, Alina. Your opinion is that popular psychology is valid when it says that pride is really low self-esteem as a defense mechanism. I just didn't see where the pride of Lucifer or Caligastia came from low self-esteem. But I guess it's like you said about not everyone being equal and the same. Perhaps when you're not too busy you could post an example of a person you know very well who could illustrate low self-esteem and pride taking place in the same person. I know I've heard guys say they are an ego maniac with an inferiority complex, but I think it's just for laughs. Although they may really believe it.
  12. The problem is when I hear people in modern recovery programs saying that they have both low self-esteem and pride at the same time. They say they are ego maniacs with inferiority complexes. Does the Urantia Book say that you can have both low self-respect and over much self-respect at the same time? No, it doesn't. According to the Urantia Book, you either have too much self-respect and it needs to be restrained OR you have lost your self-respect and it needs to be restored. You don't have both situations in the same person at different times of the day. (1765.5) 159:3.3 In bringing men into the kingdom, do not lessen or destroy their self-respect. While overmuch self-respect may destroy proper humility and end in pride, conceit, and arrogance, the loss of self-respect often ends in paralysis of the will. It is the purpose of this gospel to restore self-respect to those who have lost it and to restrainit in those who have it. I am presuming that self-respect and self-esteem are the same thing. But I believe that modern psychology uses many different words that mean the same thing, self-esteem, self-love, self-confidence, self-respect, etc. Another problem with psychology is the belief that low self-esteem is the true cause of pride and vice versa. The Urantia Book clearly outlines many cases of pride and not once does it say that low self-esteem was the cause. According to the UB, pride is pride. It doesn't stem from low self-esteem. When reading the pride of Lucifer, Caligastia and even John, it doesn't say that they had underlying low self-esteem inferiority complexes causing their pride. And when the UB talks about people who have lost their self-respect, it doesn't say that their hurt pride caused it. Modern psychology would also assign fear as the underlying cause of both pride and low self-esteem. Again, there's nothing in the UB that says fear had anything to do with Lucifer's pride or anyone else's pride. I believe that fear is also very different thing from low self-respect. What started me going to recovery meetings recently was my boyfriend's bipolar disorder. Before dating him, I frankly didn't believe in psychology at all. I thought psychology was just government conspiracy to get everyone medicated. But after spending almost two years observing his untreated manic depression, I have become a true believer in modern psychology after all. I've seen this guy get manic and I've seen his depression. And this was definitely not an act. I've since met other bipolars. And after trying to get him help for his mental illness, I remembered that I had a diagnosis of my own from childhood, which was schizophrenia. As most people on the forum know, my parents were hippie pot heads who smoked pot in the house, which no doubt contributed to my symptoms. But schizophrenia is genetic as well. My cousin has it as well as my great grandfather. He and I are going to support groups together now. The Urantia Book talks a lot about depression and anxiety. They don't say manic depression or schizophrenia exactly, but this lunatic in this quote would fit the description of a bipolar guy having a manic episode. So that means that so called "lunatics" ate not subnormals because Jesus wouldn't have told a subnormal that they are a son of God and neither would a subnormal be able to come to his right mind occassionally. (1696.1) 151:6.3 This man, whose name was Amos, was afflicted with a periodic form of insanity. There were considerable spells when he would find some clothing and deport himself fairly well among his fellows. During one of these lucid intervals he had gone over to Bethsaida, where he heard the preaching of Jesus and the apostles, and at that time had become a halfhearted believer in the gospel of the kingdom. But soon a stormy phase of his trouble appeared, and he fled to the tombs, where he moaned, cried out aloud, and so conducted himself as to terrorize all who chanced to meet him. (1696.3) 151:6.5 Jesus, looking down upon the man crouching like an animal at his feet, reached down and, taking him by the hand, stood him up and said to him: “Amos, you are not possessed of a devil; you have already heard the good news that you are a son of God. I command you to come out of this spell.” And when Amos heard Jesus speak these words, there occurred such a transformation in his intellect that he was immediately restored to hisright mind and the normal control of his emotions. By this time a considerable crowd had assembled from the near-by village, and these people, augmented by the swine herders from the highland above them, were astonished to see the lunatic sitting with Jesus and his followers, in possession of his right mind and freely conversing with them. And in these two quotes I believe we see examples of schizophrenia. (1666.2) 148:8.3 About this time there arrived at the Bethsaida encampment a trance prophet from Bagdad, one Kirmeth. This supposed prophet had peculiar visions when in trance and dreamed fantastic dreams when his sleep was disturbed. He created a considerable disturbance at the camp, and Simon Zelotes was in favor of dealing rather roughly with the self-deceived pretender, but Jesus intervened and allowed him entire freedom of action for a few days. All who heard his preaching soon recognized that his teaching was not sound as judged by the gospel of the kingdom. He shortly returned to Bagdad, taking with him only a half dozen unstable and erratic souls. But before Jesus interceded for the Bagdad prophet, David Zebedee, with the assistance of a self-appointed committee, had taken Kirmeth out into the lake and, after repeatedly plunging him into the water, had advised him to depart hence — to organize and build a camp of his own. (1666.3) 148:8.4 On this same day, Beth-Marion, a Phoenician woman, became so fanatical that she went out of her head and, after almost drowning from trying to walk on the water, was sent away by her friends.
  13. I did a Bible search for the quote about a hen gathering her chickens under her wings and nothing came up for any of those words. You know what? Let's not do any more Bible searches. If I can't do it right then we just won't. But I think they did a good job setting up the Relief Society much resembling the Women's Corp. And the resurrected Jesus appeared to the people in America using almost the same language as the UB morontia appearances. We know that the UB might not have been able to recount the hundreds of morontia appearances made by Jesus at the time of his resurrection. We really don't know how many appearances there were. The concept of the millenium always struck me as eerily similar to the UB description of the age of Light and Life. Where else have we heard of vegetarian animals except on Jerusem?
  14. Yes, the world equates inferior with mistreatment. If someone is an inferior then it must mean they are mistreated. But how many people treat their dogs like royalty? Just because the dog is not equal doesn't mean it will be mistreated. It always amazed me when I learned that back in Jesus' day, women like Mary were treated so well by men. I mean, these women had no rights whatsoever and yet they were happier than me and most modern women I know. I thought women with no rights would get smacked around constantly.
  15. I think that the presence of inequalities presents opportunity for chivalry. The way the white race of today puts the former slave race on a pedestal is also a form of chivalry. But like women, some enjoy it and some don't. My brother was a genius I.Q. and I kept failing math so my mother took me to a psychologist to bring up my math grade. All these years later I asked her why she just didn't spend her money on a math tutor for me. She has no answer. It was easier for her to accept her child had some kind of mental illness then to accept that her child had a low I.Q. in certain areas. She would really have preferred to introduce her daughter as a psych disorder of some kind rather than tell people her daughter was kind of dumb. Mental illness is seen as more equal and politically correct than stupidity. And it makes me wonder how many children are so mislabeled because their I.Q. level. The UB doesn't describe people in psychological terms, but it does discuss their I.Q.'s. Wonder when the world will be brave enough to follow suit.
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