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Louis aka loucol

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Louis aka loucol last won the day on February 13 2013

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About Louis aka loucol

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  • Birthday 06/06/1959

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    Science Philosophy and Religion as they relate to The Urantia Book
  1. I agree that Jesus and Michael coexisted. But maybe not at the level of the physical. Perhaps at the level of the mind and spirit? We have a TA that coexists with us but at the level of mind. The source is the light projector, Paradise; the spirit reality is the film; the projected image is the physical. Orthogonal relationships coexist but one is a projection of the other. Projective geometry illustrates this fact. They are not on the same coordinate axis (space) but they are in the same 'room'. This is what I mean about a phase shift.
  2. I think you misunderstand my post, Scott. The reference to 'imaginary' is a mathematical one that concerns complex number systems. Of course spirit is REAL. But the idea is whether spirit can coexist with our reality by a phase shift relationship. I will officially rename the 'imaginary axes' the 'Super Ultra Real Axes' (aka the Super Ultra Real Plane).
  3. Spirit patterns exist in relation to space. Now, mathematically, what relationship to space exists that is not space? The only one that comes to mind is the relationship of orthogonality. This is what mathematicians refer to imaginary axes, i,j and k. Could it be possible that the spiritual world exists in a domain 90 degrees out of phase with our material world? This is the domain that Einstein and Minkowski had placed time. This was an error, IMO, since TUB clearly states that time and space are inseparable and the two must remain in the same domain. Can we place the spirit domain in what we have invented (discovered) as the 'imaginary planes'?
  4. Here it is: 118:3.7 All patterns of reality occupy space on the material levels, but spirit patterns only exist in relation to space; they do not occupy or displacespace, neither do they contain it. But to us the master riddle of space pertains to the pattern of an idea. When we enter the mind domain, we encounter many a puzzle. Does the pattern — the reality — of an idea occupy space? We really do not know, albeit we are sure that an idea pattern does not contain space. But it would hardly be safe to postulate that the immaterial is always nonspatial.
  5. I seem to remember reading in TUB something about spirit beings not occupying space but existing in relation to space. I'll look for that reference.
  6. Hi All: IMHO, since time and space are inseparable, then... time-height time-length time-breadth Space respiration 2 plus 2 plus 2 plus 1 = 7 The zero dimension of spaceless, timeless, Paradise is the source of the seven above. What do you think? Regards, Louis
  7. Hi All: Just imagine how complicated it all gets when one considers space respirations. The 2 billion year cycles really does destroy much of our ability to calculate distances considering the finite speed of light and time distortions inherent in cycles of time. Consider that 1.5 billion years ago everything was much farther apart. And 2.5 billion years ago we were all very close together, relatively. 12:5.1 Like space, time is a bestowal of Paradise, but not in the same sense, only indirectly. Time comes by virtue of motion and because mind is inherently aware of sequentiality. From a practical viewpoint, motion is essential to time, but there is no universal time unit based on motion except in so far as the Paradise-Havona standard day is arbitrarily so recognized. The totality of space respiration destroys its local value as a time source. IMO,this tells us that motion is not exactly reliable as a local time source. So, does this mean that our clocks are of limited use? All data is local. We must rely on transforms to convert local data to actual data. Can we even rely on our transforms? Perhaps Nigel can chime in on this one and lend some expertise. Regards, Louis
  8. Hi Bonita: I think that the dimensions to be considered are infinite. That space is currently respiring out, expanding, is clear from TUB. This primary motion is toward all directions; infinite directions. When in half a billion years the inspiratory cycle begins, the primary motion of space will be from all directions and focusing on Paradise. All the while space and all of its contents are in elliptical motion about Paradise. This is my definition of spiral motion. Thus, spiral motion is absolute motion because is has a center of motion, not only mathematically, but in actuality, Paradise. If you motion your finger in the air in a circular fashion and go in larger and larger circles then wind in your circles and do this rhythmically, in and out, you are moving your finger in a continuos spiral. One can do this in the opposite direction the same. These are the concentric motions of the Master Universe levels. 41:5.6 Energy, whether as light or in other forms, in its flight through space moves straight forward. The actual particles of material existence traverse space like a fusillade. They go in a straight and unbroken line or procession except as they are acted on by superior forces, and except as they ever obey the linear-gravity pull inherent in material mass and the circular-gravity presence of the Isle of Paradise. The strange thing about this quote is that there is never a circumstance when the circular-gravity presence of the Isle of Paradise is not in effect. So, in essence, what these statements are saying is that all particles traverse space in the curve of the pull of Paradise gravity. Regards, Louis
  9. Hi Bonita: I may not be able to convince you that a whirl or spiral or ellipse are of the same dynamic structures but my conclusion follows from the description of the motions of space. 12:4.8 1. Primary motion — space respiration, the motion of space itself. 12:4.9 2. Secondary motion — the alternate directional swings of the successive space levels. This pattern of motion is repeated throughout physical creation. 58:2.7 Auroral phenomena are directly related to sunspots, those solar cyclones which whirl in opposite directions above and below the solar equator, even as do the terrestrial tropical hurricanes. Such atmospheric disturbances whirl in opposite directions when occurring above or below the equator. Since TUB describes cyclonic motion as whirl, I can make a connection to not only to the secondary motion of space but also to the concomitant primary motion of respiration. It is more than interesting to note that cyclones not only rotate but they breathe. There are noted updrafts at the center of motion of hurricanes that alternate with downdrafts that are dangerous to planes that venture into the storm to measure barometric pressures. hurricanes can be seen to expand and contract as they rotate and move over the surface of the Earth. 12:1.2 The successive space levels of the master universe constitute the major divisions of pervaded space — total creation, organized and partially inhabited or yet to be organized and inhabited. If the master universe were not a series of elliptical space levels of lessened resistance to motion, alternating with zones of relative quiescence, we conceive that some of the cosmic energies would be observed to shoot off on an infinite range, off on a straight-line path into trackless space; but we never find force, energy, or matter thus behaving;ever they whirl, always swinging onward in the tracks of the great space circuits. Since the primary and secondary motions of space are Absolute, the motion is in relation to unmoving Paradise. The motions of a spiral, and ellipse, are also Absolute motions for the same reason. 12:4.10 3. Relative motions — relative in the sense that they are not evaluated with Paradise as a base point. Primary and secondary motions areabsolute, motion in relation to unmoving Paradise. 12:4.12 The present relationship of your sun and its associated planets, while disclosing many relative and absolute motions in space, tends to convey the impression to astronomic observers that you are comparatively stationary in space, and that the surrounding starry clusters and streams are engaged in outward flight at ever-increasing velocities as your calculations proceed outward in space. But such is not the case. You fail to recognize the present outward and uniform expansion of the physical creations of all pervaded space. Your own local creation (Nebadon) participates in this movement of universal outward expansion. The entire seven superuniverses participate in the two-billion-year cycles of space respiration along with the outer regions of the master universe. Regards, Louis
  10. Hi All: I would like to add something to my response to Bonita's question about the reference to spiral motion. IMO, TUB the term whirl or whirling to refer to cyclonic, spiral motion and can be considered interchangeable. 3:0.1 GOD is everywhere present; the Universal Father rules the circle of eternity. But he rules in the local universes in the persons of his Paradise Creator Sons, even as he bestows life through these Sons. “God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Sons.” These Creator Sons of God are the personal expression of himself in the sectors of time and to the children of the whirling planets of the evolving universes of space. 3:6.1 With divine selflessness, consummate generosity, the Universal Father relinquishes authority and delegates power, but he is still primal; his hand is on the mighty lever of the circumstances of the universal realms; he has reserved all final decisions and unerringly wields the all-powerful veto scepter of his eternal purpose with unchallengeable authority over the welfare and destiny of the outstretched, whirling, and ever-circling creation. 11:8.1 The inescapable pull of gravity effectively grips all the worlds of all the universes of all space. Gravity is the all-powerful grasp of the physical presence of Paradise. Gravity is the omnipotent strand on which are strung the gleaming stars, blazing suns, and whirling spheres which constitute the universal physical adornment of the eternal God, who is all things, fills all things, and in whom all things consist. 12:1.2 The successive space levels of the master universe constitute the major divisions of pervaded space — total creation, organized and partially inhabited or yet to be organized and inhabited. If the master universe were not a series of elliptical space levels of lessened resistance to motion, alternating with zones of relative quiescence, we conceive that some of the cosmic energies would be observed to shoot off on an infinite range, off on a straight-line path into trackless space; but we never find force, energy, or matter thus behaving; ever they whirl, always swinging onward in the tracks of the great space circuits. 14:1.10 The Havona planetary circuits are not superimposed; their worlds follow each other in an orderly linear procession. The central universewhirls around the stationary Isle of Paradise in one vast plane, consisting of ten concentric stabilized units — the three circuits of Paradise spheres and the seven circuits of Havona worlds. Physically regarded, the Havona and the Paradise circuits are all one and the same system; their separation is in recognition of functional and administrative segregation. 15:3.13 6. The whirl of the ten major sectors, the so-called star drifts, about the Uversa headquarters of Orvonton. 15:5.4 2. The Whirled Stars embrace those suns which are thrown off the great mother wheels of highly heated gases. They are not thrown off as rings but in right- and left-handed processions. Whirled stars are also of origin in other-than-spiral nebulae. 21:2.12 The personal presence of a Creator Son in his local universe is not necessary to the smooth running of an established material creation. Such Sons may journey to Paradise, and still their universes swing on through space. They may lay down their lines of power to incarnate as the children of time; still their realms whirl on about their respective centers. No material organization is independent of the absolute-gravity grasp of Paradise or of the cosmic overcontrol inherent in the space presence of the Unqualified Absolute. 41:4.2 Gaseous, liquid, and solid states are matters of atomic-molecular relationships, but density is a relationship of space and mass. Density varies directly with the quantity of mass in space and inversely with the amount of space in mass, the space between the central cores of matter and the particles which whirl around these centers as well as the space within such material particles. 42:4.3 The power centers and their associates are much concerned in the work of transmuting the ultimaton into the circuits and revolutions of the electron. These unique beings control and compound power by their skillful manipulation of the basic units of materialized energy, the ultimatons. They are masters of energy as it circulates in this primitive state. In liaison with the physical controllers they are able to effectively control and direct energy even after it has transmuted to the electrical level, the so-called electronic stage. But their range of action is enormously curtailed when electronically organized energy swings into the whirls of the atomic systems. Upon such materialization, these energies fall under the complete grasp of the drawing power of linear gravity. 42:5.16 Primordial-force behavior does give rise to phenomena which are in many ways analogous to your postulated ether. Space is not empty; the spheres of all space whirl and plunge on through a vast ocean of outspread force-energy; neither is the space content of an atom empty. Nevertheless there is no ether, and the very absence of this hypothetical ether enables the inhabited planet to escape falling into the sun and the encircling electron to resist falling into the nucleus. 42:6.6 Ultimatons do not describe orbits or whirl about in circuits within the electrons, but they do spread or cluster in accordance with their axial revolutionary velocities, thus determining the differential electronic dimensions. This same ultimatonic velocity of axial revolution also determines the negative or positive reactions of the several types of electronic units. The entire segregation and grouping of electronic matter, together with the electric differentiation of negative and positive bodies of energy-matter, result from these various functions of the component ultimatonic interassociation. 42:7.1 The formation of all matter is on the order of the solar system. There is at the center of every minute universe of energy a relatively stable, comparatively stationary, nuclear portion of material existence. This central unit is endowed with a threefold possibility of manifestation. Surrounding this energy center there whirl, in endless profusion but in fluctuating circuits, the energy units which are faintly comparable to the planets encircling the sun of some starry group like your own solar system. 57:1.6 875,000,000,000 years ago the enormous Andronover nebula number 876,926 was duly initiated. Only the presence of the force organizer and the liaison staff was required to inaugurate the energy whirl which eventually grew into this vast cyclone of space. Subsequent to the initiation of such nebular revolutions, the living force organizers simply withdraw at right angles to the plane of the revolutionary disk, and from that time forward, the inherent qualities of energy insure the progressive and orderly evolution of such a new physical system. 57:2.3 700,000,000,000 years ago the Andronover system was assuming gigantic proportions, and additional physical controllers were dispatched to nine surrounding material creations to afford support and supply co-operation to the power centers of this new material system which was so rapidly evolving. At this distant date all of the material bequeathed to the subsequent creations was held within the confines of this gigantic space wheel, which continued ever to whirl and, after reaching its maximum of diameter, to whirl faster and faster as it continued to condense and contract. 57:3.3 About the time of the attainment of the maximum of mass, the gravity control of the gaseous content commenced to weaken, and there ensued the stage of gas escapement, the gas streaming forth as two gigantic and distinct arms, which took origin on opposite sides of the mother mass. The rapid revolutions of this enormous central core soon imparted a spiral appearance to these two projecting gas streams. The cooling and subsequent condensation of portions of these protruding arms eventually produced their knotted appearance. These denser portions were vast systems and subsystems of physical matter whirling through space in the midst of the gaseous cloud of the nebula while being held securely within the gravity grasp of the mother wheel. 57:3.4 But the nebula had begun to contract, and the increase in the rate of revolution further lessened gravity control; and erelong, the outer gaseous regions began actually to escape from the immediate embrace of the nebular nucleus, passing out into space on circuits of irregular outline, returning to the nuclear regions to complete their circuits, and so on. But this was only a temporary stage of nebular progression. The ever-increasing rate of whirling was soon to throw enormous suns off into space on independent circuits. 57:3.5 And this is what happened in Andronover ages upon ages ago. The energy wheel grew and grew until it attained its maximum of expansion, and then, when contraction set in, it whirled on faster and faster until, eventually, the critical centrifugal stage was reached and the great breakup began. 58:2.7 Auroral phenomena are directly related to sunspots, those solar cyclones which whirl in opposite directions above and below the solar equator, even as do the terrestrial tropical hurricanes. Such atmospheric disturbances whirl in opposite directions when occurring above or below the equator. 98:7.12 And this is the long story of the teachings of Machiventa Melchizedek on Urantia. It is nearly four thousand years since this emergency Son of Nebadon bestowed himself on Urantia, and in that time the teachings of the “priest of El Elyon, the Most High God,” have penetrated to all races and peoples. And Machiventa was successful in achieving the purpose of his unusual bestowal; when Michael made ready to appear on Urantia, the God concept was existent in the hearts of men and women, the same God concept that still flames anew in the living spiritual experience of the manifold children of the Universal Father as they live their intriguing temporal lives on the whirling planets of space. 104:4.9 The Second Triunity — the power-pattern triunity. Whether it be a tiny ultimaton, a blazing star, or a whirling nebula, even the central or superuniverses, from the smallest to the largest material organizations, always is the physical pattern — the cosmic configuration — derived from the function of this triunity. This association consists of: 106:2.1 As God the Sevenfold functionally co-ordinates finite evolution, so does the Supreme Being eventually synthesize destiny attainment. The Supreme Being is the deity culmination of grand universe evolution — physical evolution around a spirit nucleus and eventual dominance of the spirit nucleus over the encircling and whirling domains of physical evolution. And all of this takes place in accordance with the mandates of personality: Paradise personality in the highest sense, Creator personality in the universe sense, mortal personality in the human sense, Supreme personality in the culminating or experiential totaling sense. Regards, Louis
  11. Yes Alina, I quess one could consider zero as the 'other' infinite; the infinite small as opposed the the other pole of infinity, the infinitely large. Paradise being absolute, I would think encompasses both infinities. Regards, Louis
  12. Hi Alina: The dimensionality of Paradise is confusing to me and that is why I uses a confused and perplexed yellow face. I am inclined to agree with you that if there is a dimensionality to Paradise that it must be either zero or infinite. But my finite mind cannot place either of those into my conceptual box. I guess that we will have to wait patiently the eons and ages of the ascension till we arrive. I too have plans for a room with a view. Regards, Louis
  13. Yes Bonita, it is true that TUB does not use the word spiral specifically, but the primary and secondary motions of space combine to form a spiral motion. The primary motion is space respiration and the secondary motion is circular elliptical. The two motion are simultaneous and form a spiral that cycles, spiraling in and spiraling out, as space respires. Spirals can of course spiral in counter directions as does the space levels of the Master Universe. Incidentally, the spiral and the ellipse are related structures although not readily apparent. There is a continuous change in curvature as one courses an ellipse just as a cycling spiral continuously increases and decrease its curvature as it cycles. Regards, Louis
  14. Space begins just below Paradise and time just above, no? Why this would be I can't understand since time and space are inseparable yet Paradise separates them. They must join at in the semi quiescent space zones, I don't know.
  15. I think Alina has brought up an very important attribute of Paradise, its gigantic non dimensional dimensionality. Paradise is exclusive. Gigantic Paradise fits quite nicely in the nucleus of the tiny ultimation. Space is not an issue. Being exclusive, Paradise is everywhere and anywhere time-space is excluded. IMO, this is at the center of motion, which is stationary. Paradise is the center of gravity. Paradise has a pulsating heart. Gravity, energies, forces, IMO, must pulsate from Paradise. Gravity must fluctuate. This gravitational fluctuation is what can explain the eternal ellipse. We do not have to search for any other force at the 'ghost' foci of the elliptical orbit. Only a single fluctuating force can explain the ellipse. Thus far science believes gravity is a function of mass and that mass curves space. TUB tells us that gravity is a function of the source of mass, Paradise. Gravity is the sole control of energy-matter. TUB describes space as moving in a spiral fashion. TUB also states that time and space are not separable. This leads me to think that time must also be spiral, circular, elliptical. Our current theory proposes that space is curved and time is linear. TUB is telling us that space is orthogonal but moves in a curve and that time is nonlinear. Curved time is analogous to linear time dilation, no? Is TUB correcting some fundamental errors for us? Regards, Louis
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