Jump to content
Urantia Book Forum, conversations with other readers

Bradly aka/fanofVan

Members
  • Content Count

    770
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    72

Posts posted by Bradly aka/fanofVan


  1. Bravo All!! Wonderful. Scott - I too seek the "group wisdom" of others in both the religious and secular worlds which I differentiate from the "majority view"...the group is not often aware of its own wisdom. The group dynamic effect is fascinating....take any group in relationship and then add and subtract new members and watch the dynamic change. Seek the leadership which appears...also in rotation. This dynamic relationship is illustrative of ever larger groups....right up to the planetary. I think our discernment is always challenged and our choices always unique when we become thusly aware.

     

    What I mean is that as the definition of insanity is giving the same response (wrong) to the same choice over and over, that when we "learn" the lesson and move forward progressively, that we will learn that each choice is also within a different circumstance and with different persons and is thusly always found within a new dynamic for us to discern how to "approach" each the same but not that the response choice is always the same to the mature mind. Jesus gave a different response in many similar situations and gave truth differently to each....even his parables and lessons for the large group audience was masterfully given to appeal to each set of "ears". We have much to learn as tadpoles.

     

    But believers learn in confidence and we do not fear our errors. And we seek out diverse situations, experiences, and minds to test our perspective and to enlarge it by the experience and wisdom of other minds. Prejudice is the death of progress except by consequential brutalities which change our prejudice. What Scott describes is the concious destruction or demolition or deconstruction of prejudice....which opens the mind to learning and growing. We must learn when and how to assert self for the benefit of another or all others but without the self as the object or even the source of our contributions....then we are in spirit assertion and not self assertion or ego gratification in our offerings in the dynamic at hand....personal or group.

     

    Thanks to all. Such a lovely group dynamic here....and so much group wisdom to learn from.

    • Like 5

  2. Brother Pike and Friends - to discern there is a problem is half the solution as they say!! Many primitives still think life is a series of good and bad luck events or personal blessings or curses....what a pity. The problems in life - the viccisitudes - ARE the purpose of life. To "learn" to discover opportunity, to see the response result and then to adapt or correct or at least change our response for a different outcome is why time, choice, and reason are given to us. Problem solving brings mind into focus. Once able to discern, we are challenged to find the superior from the inferior....and then to know the difference between patience and procrastination - timing is everything for effect....ask any comic, field commander, parent....or revelator!!

     

    I am reminded of an old Chinese proverb that someone else first posted here or truthbook:

     

     

    A farmer and his son had a beloved stallion who helped the family earn a living. One day, the horse ran away and their neighbors exclaimed, “Your horse ran away, what terrible luck!” The farmer replied, “Maybe so, maybe not. We’ll see.”

     

    A few days later, the horse returned home, leading a few wild mares back to the farm as well. The neighbors shouted out, “Your horse has returned, and brought several horses home with him. What great luck!” The farmer replied, “Maybe so, maybe not. We’ll see.”

     

    Later that week, the farmer’s son was trying to break one of the mares and she threw him to the ground, breaking his leg. The villagers cried, “Your son broke his leg, what terrible luck!” The farmer replied, “Maybe so, maybe not. We’ll see.”

     

    A few weeks later, soldiers from the national army marched through town, recruiting all the able-bodied boys for the army. They did not take the farmer’s son, still recovering from his injury. Friends shouted, “Your boy is spared, what tremendous luck!” To which the farmer replied, “Maybe so, maybe not. We’ll see.”

    • Like 3

  3. Bonita, to clarify - I think the quote does not say "evil gravity" but that evil is gravity resisting....a drag or weight interfering with the force of spirit gravity. And I agree with all that evil includes the mind poisens...anxiety, fear, impatience, and prejudice are all similar in their resistance to the pull of the spirit.

    • Like 2

  4. The moment I read of the midwayers and the rebel midwayers, my mind flashed AH HA!! I'm Gaelic and my wife is Norse (if you go back far enough in multiple family lines) and our traditions abound with the faere folk. The king of the elves in norse fables is Van. And these midway creatures are just that in folklore. These are ancient traditions or fables to be sure. But it was only 2000 years ago the mischief making rebels no longer walked among us. To be sprited is to become lost by following such a mischief maker into the wood.

    • Like 4

  5. Howard - The Revelation was not written by divinely inspired mortals but by celestials themselves in the first 3 parts (Part IV is authored by the midwayer commission as I recall). None of the authors were inspired either but witness and participant and/or as instructed and informed by those who were. Inspired writing comes through the mortal mind to be influenced and distorted by the experience, memories, symbols, etc. within mortal mind. In other words what the mind thusly receives is often more inspired than what that mind then communicates in writing or voice or picture, etc.

     

    There are many wonderful works that are inspired and we are to be inspired and aspire truth, beauty, and goodness. The UB purports to contain over 1000 of humankind's greatest achievements in such inspirations. But herein lies the difference between personal revelation and epochal revelation. The epochal speaks to all and is for the all but is learned and experienced by the each as must personal revelation be so as well. But the epochal does not come through a mortal's mind making the message/revelation clearer. Still constrained by language to be sure but without the distortions and incompleteness and inexperience and ignorance inherent in any mortal mind.

     

    You may believe what you will Friend. But those who believe the Revelation is a revelation do not believe it is inspired....or written by or through an inspired mortal mind in any regard, piece, or parcel. Peace.

    • Like 3

  6. Hey JR....good stuff. It is my understanding there is another interpretation to the scripture you posted that is even more interesting to UBers.....that creation process involves ascenders too in the eternities of the outer universes....that we have such destiny as believers. Another of my favorites is we all go to heaven (albeit one of three levels) and while Mormons are chosen for and can attain the highest heaven, the rest of the world is not condemned. Both pretty unusual beliefs for christians anyway (and yes Mormons are christian IMO).

     

    I have always surmised that Joe was given vision to see or get a peek of Heaven like John and Paul. And this personal revelation inspired Joe's words. There was a great deal of heady and exciting religious outpouring of the spirit in Joe's time, especially in New York it seems but elsewhere, individualism and expressionism of religious revelations seemed to be growing up and dropping seed in fertile soil. Mormons are taught they have the same circuitry as Joe and all the apostles to follow and the same obligation to Father to stand on holy ground and speak with the voice of truth for themselves.

     

    Personally, I always enjoyed Joe's writing as more engaging and illuminating than the Book of Mormon, which he did not write or claim as revelation at all.....it was a translation of the plates.

    • Like 4

  7. Lot of hats flying into this ring....might as well toss mine. I will not criticize or dispute any other's perspective....and think group wisdom is greater than mine (at least). Pike - I know you registered at the new site. This costs nothing and we need you and your wisdom and poetry over there....please come. I plan to donate a little for I believe in the work - even if I don't agree full spectrum on every choice and design...it is an evolutionary work in progress. The work is greater than ever with more and more newer and newer readers....and we are teachers as well as students with a positive group dynamic....which will change no doubt but the change will be better by the solid core working here. I don't plan to use the networking and links any....or not until I have compelling reasons to.....I'm too busy for all the fooferaw of social media. But the discussion site is the core for now. We should offer a waiver of the $20 upon any request knowing it will only be so requested by those who need it as cost should not preclude participation. And UAI members should be able to offer a seperate donation entitling them/us to participate on multiple levels perhaps.....membership benefits.

     

    It would be adviseable for the UAI to post costs, budgets, and money raised by Forum fees for transparency issues.....apparently. I know that UAI is underfunded for the many great works they tackle and support salaries, and they are understaffed with volunteers. I encourage anyone to consider the needs they can discern and lift this boat over the next shoal and the next one to come after. May we exhibit the best of unity and fraternity in this transition. I need you all and so do many others. Thanks to all. May Father bring the light to your face and the wind to your back on this noble path we tread together. Peace. :D

    • Like 6

  8. Carolyn and Alina and all.......I am happy to report that the Open Forum discussion site is easy to use and navigate....it is very familiar in many ways. Like Rick suggests, just find that one place to begin and then do some poking around. I'll bet I will use some of those tools....eventually. But for now, I made my first reply post to Absonite's new thread on how the UB helps me to get closer to God in mind as a living, religious experience. I think this is going to be fun....eventually. Hate tech learning curves too. Got our first smart phones for Christmas last. Oh dear. Will never use 1% of its capabilities. But I'd like to know how to operate that harp of God when I get my hands on one....hope the Lord is more intuitive than most geeks and more sympathetic to tech challenged geezers like me. Don't let the new site intimidate you, we can do this thing. Imagine potential...and grab a shovel....there's work to be done in the Kingdom.

     

    :rolleyes:

    • Like 3

  9. Howard - here we are again discussing the "about" rather than that within...text or mind. Where is such unknowable speculation directed? Where the target of your aim? The UB is not a miracle and neither was its delivery and none claim it so. The actual papers were simply "materialized" by morontial angels and midwayers by some normal ability of their's to interact with the material, morontial, and spiritual levels of reality. The sleeping subjects only role was to remain calm (deep sleep) and engaged over a long period of time to allow his TA to provide some communication mechanism for the Contact Commission that were but instructional and informational for their assigned project....receive, print, and publish the Revelation. I have no idea what these normal processes were but there are no miracles. All that happens, happens within Father's laws of universe organization and function and purpose and plan....yes even evil by the gift of free will....but miracles? No. That which we call or claim as miracles is simply that which we cannot explain but Father can.

     

    It would appear the angels were closely tied into this process for working with the subject, his TA, and the midwayers in this nonmiraculous process:

     

    (1244.2) 113:3.1 One of the most important things a destiny guardian does for her mortal subject is to effect a personal co-ordination of the numerous impersonal spirit influences which indwell, surround, and impinge upon the mind and soul of the evolving material creature. Human beings are personalities, and it is exceedingly difficult for nonpersonal spirits and prepersonal entities to make direct contact with such highly material and discretely personal minds. In the ministry of the guarding angel all of these influences are more or less unified and made more nearly appreciable by the expanding moral nature of the evolving human personality.

     

    (1244.3) 113:3.2 More especially can and does this seraphic guardian correlate the manifold agencies and influences of the Infinite Spirit, ranging from the domains of the physical controllers and the adjutant mind-spirits up to the Holy Spirit of the Divine Minister and to the Omnipresent Spirit presence of the Paradise Third Source and Center. Having thus unified and made more personal these vast ministries of the Infinite Spirit, the seraphim then undertakes to correlate this integrated influence of the Conjoint Actor with the spirit

    presences of the Father and the Son.

     

    (1244.6) 113:3.5 On the spiritual level, seraphim make personal many otherwise impersonal and prepersonal ministries of the universe; they are co-ordinators. On the intellectual level they are the correlators of mind and morontia; they are interpreters. And on the physical level they manipulate terrestrial environment through their liaison with the Master Physical Controllers and through the co-operative ministry of the midway creatures.

     

    (1244.7) 113:3.6 This is a recital of the manifold and intricate function of an attending seraphim; but how does such a subordinate angelic personality, created but a little above the universe level of humanity, do such difficult and complex things? We do not really know, but we conjecture that this phenomenal ministry is in some undisclosed manner facilitated by the unrecognized and unrevealed working of the Supreme Being, the actualizing Deity of the evolving universes of time and space. Throughout the entire realm of progressive survival in and through the Supreme Being, seraphim are an essential part of continuing mortal progression.

     

     

    The mechanism is not the point....but that which is revealed, explained, unified, expanded, and written for our personal religious experience in spirit and mind to find Father and come to know Him and ourself to better grow into mighty tadpoles and playful children in a friendly family with endless fun and adventure to come!! But then, all that must be read within that discussed here and lived daily for the transformative power of Revelation to be unleashed upon the life of us children. But I am so glad that it was Eddie Gore that did it, such a better story than Kellogg who seems so unlikely a suspect given the stories told by them who were actually there. But, as is so often true in rank speculation and unfounded rumors, so what?? Does the identity matter? Does the process of delivery matter? I think I will cling to my indifference on this one and hold fast to my personal knowledge of and time with some forumites and their children who shared a very consistant story of those times with me and many others, much of which has been written by their hand as well. I believe them.....and still, it does not matter.

    • Like 1

  10. Looks pretty cool everybody!! The discussions are distinct from the networking and social connectivity. Will try my best to embrace the change. Kudos to UAI and Foundation to modernize access and utilization for all the growth to come. May the valiant carry on and bring their wisdom to those to come. Thank you everyone. This has been a wonderful and rewarding year for this tadpole. I have learned much here and have come to love many I did not even know before. See you on the other side...... ;) .....of the Forum.

    • Like 4

  11. Rick - it worked!! I recommend such instructions and help buttons on each step too. Not all geeks are created equal....and I don't even speak geek!! I empathize with all who are distressed about the changes to come and I agree that the historical record of these discusions and instructions is an invaluable resource. I have read less than 10% with great effort over an entire year. It also lets me get to know different contributors and their developing experience in text. But change is the only constant. May we find the superior way forward. Thanks to all. (Bonita - fake your bday and then "privacy" it and come over...eventually. I'll be here as long as there is a here while I try to learn navigation and functionality on the new one.) :unsure: :( <_< ;) B)

    • Like 3

  12. I am of the opinion that all parties and opinions here are in some measure true. Merely posting text or an opinion or reading may not be an act of service or a relationship builder or interaction. These forums can also be abused by bullies and radicals and doubters and stone casters and have a very self centered function for some. But those realities do not preclude nor prevent actual service and true relationship by those who are dedicated to present the sites and those who present the Revelation to new readers and eager students and nurture the Revelation's circle of believers and activists. And I assure you, I have new friends and friendly teachers, found and nurtured here and only here and I think true relationship and sharing and caring is demonstrated here daily. But it takes more time and attention. For, as has been said already, there's no vocal tone, no facial elasticity or expression, no body language, no eye ball to eye ball. I think though this is part of the future. In my professional life, I have very close relationships with many people I have never met in person but we work together and project together by phone and internet. I'm skyping more now and love it and hate it at the same time.

     

    Interesting issue.


  13. Thanks Menno but...my wife is not so certain as you that I am not one of the riff raff. haha. I think the problem is the verification at the bottom is locked and I'll bet it's supposed to be one of those squiggly, blurry series of numbers and letters only human eyeballs can see and you have to type it into a box (that is not on). Don't know. Kinda wish this forum could remain operational, especially if it will be archived anyway, but that requires a moderator and maintenence etc. - ok, unreasonable. I'm not gonna become social mediaized I don't think. Appreciate its purpose and potential value, especially to the younger generations which seem so intuitive with digital tech....I need big fonts and big buttons and a slow mouse and not so elaborate. Geezer Whine. But I'll be there eventually....debugging is not unusual and I am confident in the intentions and efforts of our hosts here...they may have too much confidence in my digital skills though.

    • Like 1

  14. (1228.3) 112:2.8 All mortal concepts of reality are based on the assumption of the actuality of human personality; all concepts of superhuman realities are based on the experience of the human personality with and in the cosmic realities of certain associated spiritual entities and divine personalities. Everything nonspiritual in human experience, excepting personality, is a means to an end. Every true relationship of mortal man with other persons — human or divine — is an end in itself. And such fellowship with the personality of Deity is the eternal goal of universe ascension.

    • Like 1

  15. You are right of course....bored was the wrong word. For I am always seeking a way to understand or find commonality and move deeper in such "boring" "conversations" about sports, politics, movies, yadayada. In my professional life, I must have deep, meaningful, and difficult discussions on very heavy and personal issues with people who need help and understanding. I use so much of my experience as religionist to make people comfortable, confidential, expressive, hopeful, pragmatic, and soothe fears and anxieties. It is powerful, rewarding, and....exhausting frankly. But the reward is great....appreciation, loyalty, reputation, resolution, life changing, and yes, even love. So I did not mean the world is boring or irrelevant off line to be sure. It is thrilling and surprising and delightful to the children of Father who seek always to discover the truth, beauty, and goodness in every relationship and encounter. Thanks again Absonite. B)


  16. Howard, you are being very declarative again....and wrong, again. How can you speak for or diagnose the perspective of the "outside" world? Your subjectivity is glaringly unobjective. Perhaps you are right but then I imagine most of the "outside" world (whatever that means) does not know about nor have any opinion at all. But to your point, it is my belief that the need to work through and work out some material, ego, and mortal mind at mischief obstacles that are normal and predictable behavioral issues is the reason for the specific timing of the Revelation and its publication. I've been in the thick of the mess from Grimsley's fall into darkness of self importance to Hamm and the legalistic struggles between Foundation and Brotherhood/Fellowship and Marty's egomaniacal end of printing the UB to "protect" it to people being sued for indexes and digital books, etc., etc. But from those ashes arose a more mature and focused readership and many devoted foot soldiers tried and true, emerging wiser and stronger for the construction of the super-structure and foundation work accomplished these past 10 years or so. From your perspective it may appear horrific and ugly and embarrasing (and it was all of those things...I'm no apologist) but from my perspective, it is a marvelous example of Father taking lemons and making lemonade. The sincere efforts and intentions of righteous souls (and there have been many) over the past 50+ years was not wasted and delivered us unto this time and place. I'm glad you like the forums. I love them myself. So much access to so much experience and so many perspectives is truly the most exciting development in the movement.....except for its very survival. There have been many valiant and enlightened souls that gave much for a long time for us to enjoy this here and now. I share your enthusiasm.

     

    I would say though that I have attended over 25 distinct study groups over the years (acted as study group coordinator for awhile so traveling visitations were just part of the job) and each was a gem of an experience. You may also consider starting one. I recommend the Study Group Guide available here or at the UAI for some great ways to organize and run one. And many groups do meet in places besides a home....including libraries, campuses, churches, etc. I believe you would make a wonderful host myself. Please consider it....for the sake of the Revelation and those seeking souls that will find you as they need you. I also highly recommend regional, national, or international conferences as these larger gathering bring together some amazing scholars and teachers and artists. I have always found them great fun with great people learning great things. I fear that the forums may exaggerate disagreement or dispute in your and other minds as it is quite unstructured and there is a full spectrum of preconception, misconception, prejudices, and truth experiences in-play....which I love but I'm pretty grounded in the text and in the spectrum of preconception both. I am learning much here about the Revelation but even more about myself and how to interact without stinking up the place....much of that struggle and learning curve I can thank you for. And I do. Sincerely, even reverantly. For I am here to learn how to teach too. I can't do that if I do not learn better how to engage and interact with grace and poise (yes, I know...still much for me to learn there). Thank you Brother. :rolleyes:

     

     

    Absonite. I know what you mean. I get so bored by most conversation due to its shallowness if not in-family or with other religionists. We are blessed to have your mind and voice and experience and perspective here. You're a great teacher to me and others. If I were to give advice to you it would only be to try a conference and socialize some with fellow students and believers. All would benefit thereby. Other than that, just please continue to share your fruit at this table. You give quite a feast Brother. I love it here as you do.

     

    Finally, would like to take up Brother Boom/Scott's issue; are we relating here? Are there relationships here which have meaning and value in that regard? Are we not within a group dynamic of learning and teaching and growing and discovering that fits within the definitions of friendship, relationship, intersection, pattern, love, understanding, etc.? I have always thought so. I may be misunderstanding but Scott seems to be saying this is not "real" or personal since it is not in person and face to face. I think it interesting to consider the reality and unreality of "on-line" interactions since I certainly think that all the texting, tweeting, and FB posting dimminishes relationship. How can I be so contradictory in my own position? Anywho, thought I'd ask other's opinion of this issue.

     

    See you on the new Forum!! :wub: :lol: :P ^_^ B) :ph34r:

    • Like 2

  17. Nelson - some text on our joint destiny with The Supreme. I think that our Finaliter adventure will be a completely unique "experience" for us and God. The Father descends to experience the ascension of we created ones unto the cocreated fusion of two into the potential of one. But that creative and experiential process results in the completed experiential Supreme which will be the face/hand/voice of God to come in cocreation experience with the Corps of Finality in that time to come and in that place now being prepared for that experiential adventure to come. So, Father has also embarked on an eternal experiential destiny of His own through this process in play here in this time and space place. There is text speculation as to who all might journey out in this mighty host or in service to us once the superuniverses are settled in L&L. God has a complex and interesting relationship with Himself as well as all others. I am blessed to have others here who can diagram these complexities as I am unable to fathom the differentiations of the I Am.

     

    (1239.4) 112:7.15 The present known destiny of surviving mortals is the Paradise Corps of the Finality; this is also the goal of destiny for all Thought Adjusters who become joined in eternal union with their mortal companions. At present the Paradise finaliters are working throughout the grand universe in many undertakings, but we all conjecture that they will have other and even more supernal tasks to perform in the distant future after the seven superuniverses have become settled in light and life, and when the finite God has finally emerged from the mystery which now surrounds this Supreme Deity.

     

    (1239.5) 112:7.16 You have been instructed to a certain extent about the organization and personnel of the central universe, the superuniverses, and the local universes; you have been told something about the character and origin of some of the various personalities who now rule these far-flung creations. You have also been informed that there are in process of organization vast galaxies of universes far out beyond the periphery of the grand universe, in the first outer space level. It has also been intimated in the course of these narratives that the Supreme Being is to disclose his unrevealed tertiary function in these now uncharted regions of outer space; and you have also been told that the finaliters of the Paradise corps are the experiential children of the Supreme.

     

    (1239.6) 112:7.17 We believe that the mortals of Adjuster fusion, together with their finaliter associates, are destined to function in some manner in the administration of the universes of the first outer space level. We have not the slightest doubt that in due time these enormous galaxies will become inhabited universes. And we are equally convinced that among the administrators thereof will be found the Paradise finaliters whose natures are the cosmic consequence of the blending of creature and Creator.

     

    (1239.7) 112:7.18 What an adventure! What a romance! A gigantic creation to be administered by the children of the Supreme, these personalized and humanized Adjusters, these Adjusterized and eternalized mortals, these mysterious combinations and eternal associations of the highest known manifestation of the essence of the First Source and Center and the lowest form of intelligent life capable of comprehending and attaining the Universal Father. We conceive that such amalgamated beings, such partnerships of Creator and creature, will become superb rulers, matchless administrators, and understanding and sympathetic directors of any and all forms of intelligent life which may come into existence throughout these future universes of the first outer space level.

     

    (1240.1) 112:7.19 True it is, you mortals are of earthly, animal origin; your frame is indeed dust. But if you actually will, if you really desire, surely the heritage of the ages is yours, and you shall someday serve throughout the universes in your true characters — children of the Supreme God of experience and divine sons of the Paradise Father of all personalities.

     

     

    From the sons of Father to the children of the Supreme. I think that's a promotion? :wacko: <_< :ph34r:

    • Like 2

  18. Great read BB!! Thanks. Read a year ago or so that this same genetic tracking had theorized that no 2 people on Urantia are more than 50th cousins. I know some redneck crackers that ain't too happy with that!! :rolleyes: Be careful who you hate....a comedian once said....cause your kids will be that or marry that sure as shootin'. I hope and believe such science will work to break down barriers of hostility and build bridges of understanding and tolerance. But I'm radically optimistic. If you find more, bring it here to share. So good to hear your voice again. B)

    • Like 2
×
×
  • Create New...