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Urantia Book Forum, conversations with other readers


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About Pa'demnims

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    God, Urantia Book, yoga, philosophy of the psychological acitivity, ascention, natural medicine, Spanish, ecology.
  1. Pa'demnims


    Intelligent people have a hard time letting go of what they believe in. Especially when what they believe in is constructed from abstracts such as those in all areas of life including the religious and scientific and all the material that is available out there to any interested seeker. And then tp give all that up to concentrate on the meanings of the Urantia Book and then to withstand the dimension where tolerance and concessions and finally something like this and hopefully an effort will be made on Stars part to concentrate on this. Much can be learned but more can be missed. Why go to class without having studied the proper material.
  2. I am around many drug addicts. Especially heroin addicts. One day I entered a small store and encountered a person I know well in a converstation with the store owner about how he is trying and does make some hard efforts to quit and all the verbally prosthetic rituals of the heroin addict in general. And then he tried to include me in this you know too dontcha thing. It is a lot easier to cut right to the quick and not allow this fellow to play me into this agree with him in his constant ritual of Im gonna quit thing. I become a bit indignant at this nowhere type of thing. The guy will quit only when he decides to quit and no sooner. Why play the game. It is a thing they are so in love with and the sooner they realize it and admit it the sooner they know what they have really got themselves into and it saves me this stupid game with someone who knows how to get up the mountain and he knows how and when to come back down. All the rest is a childish game and should be met with rightous indignation which requires some smart and quick awareness of the games people play on the part of anyone who works with addicts of any sort. Of course the Urantia Book gets the credit for coining the phrase. It gave me a language that adequatly matched the term with the reality. Rightous Indignation. I never really had a good or clear definition of how I felt. Thanks.
  3. Nice Claude: Looks like with this you said more and came to a better point of getting your reasoning forward and into our heads quite well. I clearly understood and see this as a nice way of expressing what you have been trying to say all along. I too read many other books. It is not that I read only the Urantia Book. I go up and down the ladder all the time. I will read some book and after a little while return to read the Urantia Book. I do read more of the Urantia Book now that I am in this forum and another in Spanish. These folks are astute and smart and know well the material they lay their eyes on so I too have to read up and stay up on the current affairs of the Book and the forum. So when I do come here I can relate and share and read what others have to say and how they think and all in all here we come to share the Urantia Papers with each other and how we understand them in light of all our other teachings that have pertinents activities but each in its proper place. Of course if one has some pertinent relativities to share on other levels that somehow brings us back to the UB fine but up to the point where the point has been made. Anyways. I hope you enjoy reading more and sharing more of this with us. There is the point of interest in that some say we are only human all of us and that we should be in conformity with that. And there are others who let their imaginations fly and putting all the possible erroneous conclusions one can come to this way... Some are artists, dreamers and some of us are arithmeticians and scientists. No two humans see the same thing the same way. It may be the same thing but not in our heads where we must each come to an objective understanding and that is why it takes so many of us. Each and every one of us has a viewpoint that is valuable and needs to collaborate with others to find out what and how they think and are we all on the same channel when it comes to a solution. I have noticed quite a few different ways of relating that perhaps I would not go along with but to judge what is another individuals specific level and qualitatively original form of being is really only showing my own shortsightedness. Gracias Pa'demnims
  4. Hi Star, There are lots of examples out there to use and verify or back ones form of thinking. We can and do defend ourselves many times with these sources and to an extent they are true. But now that we have done that, where in the Urantia Book do you find interest? Is there anywhere that broils your thoughts to the extent that the language and concepts depicted can attain full attention and leave behind in faith and trust the other definitions and relations that semantically pertain to other fountains of knowledge? Or are they still needed to build faith that the Urantia Book has a semantic quality and a particular way of looking at reality. Would you study sociology to learn psychology? Yes to an extent. But when it comes time to pass the examine for a psychology degree and you only have knowledge of the sociological relationships what is going to happen? You wont know the language that psychology uses. The same here. The Urantia Book is its own definition and language and to understand it one has to have read it and accepted or learned that its definitions are replete and unique and a bit more complex in some ways.
  5. That is right. It is only an example of the idea. All the cells in the human body have to accept the will of the personality they make up in order to maintain a homeostatic relationship and that means giving up their voluntary liberty. But in doing so gain a far more important relationship with a whole that only can function with that sort of cooperation. We too are individual units that in order to function as a whole must give up to an extent and let the supreme order run our show. Not mine but yours is that way to becoming one with that higher order. Sometime we too will be full parts of that order. Thanks for the understanding and help. Pa'demnims
  6. Hi Tim, For a long time I too, even though I could not refute the Urantia Book still studied other material mostly related to the activities of the individual. The definitions already in effect amongst civilization related to what individual means in its most general sense, the same with personality and so forth. I could and still do not find much contradiction between the abstract explication and the reality. So in trying to apply these most scientifically excellent explications in a vinculation with the Urantia Book I found this... The Urantia Book is so much more precise that if I were to continue insisting on my understanding I would miss totally something very educational related to the Urantia Book definition. I used to insist that in general anything has a personality... Scientifically correct. Your car has its own personality and if someone else drives it he will notice the traits that make up the vehicles particular way which is in general its personality. A used car dealer will sell the personally attractive traits of the vehicle and not even mention the other traits that may cost him the sale. Forget it... So limited and incorrect if applied to the Urantia Book... A personality is life, a individual social being is the only thing that can have personality of this order and if not respected on this level and if one keeps trying to apply the more general and well earned knowledge of other sources one will miss the meanings of the Urantia Book and her penetration into the very trust and faith needed to delve and get out of her some of the more intricate benefits. That is ok too because that is a free will choice. I chose to put all else aside and learn but that is because I trust that it is me and not the Urantia Book that is in need of comprehension. I can give you a well elucidated explication of the psychological activity and its relation to the objective activities within which it functions. These are from known and accessible researches done at the human level by humans who were in the field professionally. Fine. Perfect. The Bible and all other material too including the Book of Mormon. No argument there. The battle is personal and intrinsic in that the explications within the Urantia Book too are absolutely wonderful and not in much need of support with other material like I used to try. It was necessary only in that I thought it was necessary. What it did was cause consternation amongst those who were into the book deeply and had applied trust enough to put aside all their other crutches. Finally I realized that even though they loved and accepted me it was me who was short and at times totally off the object. It can be embarrassing to think one knows and is right in there with the others and then find the dimension one is in is not anywhere close to the one the others are in. I think that what the others were trying to say was that yes they understand that but the language to that understanding is Urantian and to compliment that one needs to trust that the explications mean pretty much an ability to carry that meaning further and some want to run up the trail and dont like stumbling over other explications.
  7. Hi Bill, I imagine it must take some pretty sensitive understanding to divine such a thing from me. My hats off to you in your capacity to interpret deeply such intrinsic matters when it comes to personalities and how they are. And who is to say that someone else is not able to perceive things of others, in your case, some sadness and wistfulness in me over what is but a simple curiosity. Just strengthens my argument that there are close to us spirits hiding deep within us and around us externally and they can see how we are. Good point. I hope my sadness and wistfulness does not disturb you too much. In the mean time I will look into it and perhaps try to put on a better face. Thanks. The pleasure derived from reading the Urantia Book is what has me sticking like a fly on sugar. Seems there is always some nice new inclusion which means expansion of some concept or other. Sometimes, like lately many of the expanded concepts come together like cells that come together to form an organ. Many ideas scattered all over the place fall subject to the gravitational pull of a concept that is evolving through grace into being a somewhat substantial and fortuitous avenue that determines the eventual ascent onto higher and more complex levels of activity.
  8. Hi Rossco, What if it was one of those like Lucifer said. When it came down to the final blows who won? So even if it was as such things would still be the same. Our Father still has His children and the Ancients of Days are still the Top Guns around here. There have been other mistakes this isn't the first one. Im sure the creative adventurist and explorational nature of the Creator Sons has led to a long line where not always were things going smoothly. As they too have so socially distributed the different creative responsibilities amongst the many personalities and even amongst us to a degree, and since we never make mistakes it is hard for us to understand how such things could pass even at some of the most high levels.
  9. This is sort of the way some of the older sects and cults got started. At first a bunch of people got together who applied the same trade. Lets take the masons. They all started out just fine a small conglomerate bunch of men who built things. They all agreed and now look. A thousand or so years later and the vie for power is so extreme. Benito Juarez was a Mason and he had Maximilian shot, who was a brother Mason. At this rate what makes this any different? Now instead of understanding how a person can be trying to objectify reality with the help of others who chastise him and say things supposedly perceived by them that I sensed also but find no misunderstanding nor refute in the words or way he pronounced them. What I perceived was a simple searching and exploring soul trying to understand his way out of his own hole just like we are. This is how people intercommunicate and share knowledge and certainly we must go beyond the mere wordage and try to understand that the dinosaur he is trying to slay is the same dinosaur you or him or me is trying to slay. Thank God someone came to the hunt at all even if his weapons are not the same, neither are yours nor mine. We are all different arms and with different calibers and different positions in this canyon and if we are to come out together we must come together in one way... That may be to acknowledge that each contribution is valuable. And if Tim needs some more conversation time to express his thoughts, and does so no way threatens or conjoles or works toward undermining those who believe in the Urantia Book or who are trying to understand it at least. I too have had many a conversation with Mormons and I enjoy to an extent hearing what they have to say although I make it clear that Im quite happy as I am and that with Christ within me I feel no need to join a church of any type nor want to. The same with the Jehovas witnesses who have some real good nonpartial studies and are able to rationalize when you let them into accepting that with Jesus inside is the whole of the question. And with that I let them express themselves which is what they wanted to do in the first place. Another thing. The appliance of the word reincarnation as representative of a theory and concept about the personality coming back to re-occupy his old body is null and void and not possible unless some divine act makes it possible. At one point you make it clear that Jesus says it isn't possible and then you rectify by stating that amongst humans at least. So it is possible then, just not amongst humans who are of the order of the electrical chemical Nebadon series of two brained creatures on Urantia. What about the "incarnation" of Melchizedec. Of course now there must be some difference. Reincarnation can only mean the human element cant but those on high and who are here with us in the Seraphic Planetary Government and to say the least the Reserve Corps of Destiny can incarnate through some special technique. It sounds to me to be more of a self stroking game more than a sane conversation open and ready to expand.
  10. And remember, the universe as sensed and interpreted scientifically is a material place. Most of the light that is now passing this sector and entering our sense units has taken millions of light years to reach here. What is there now we may never know. The light that we live by has taken eight minutes to arrive. Is the God we perceive as the ultimate personality here now or are we the belated receptors of information from some source long since gone? Just a handful, several billion of celestial personalities are here in our space, just beyond our perceptive range. The Seraphic Planetary Government and the few finaliters who may pop into our dimension every now and then to see that things are kept straightened up. Yet for some of us they may as well be as far as those stars and their message may be just as hard reaching to us and in fact, may have left long ago and all we have now are some remnants and ideas that slowly percolate and eventually rise to some conscious level to let us know that although on the path, we are far behind and still need to play games of dominance over nature before we begin to understand.
  11. Hi Michaelsister, Perhaps what you could use is a human example of how this free will and His Will thing works. At one time I was adamant and unflinching when it came to changing my mind about something that was extremely harmful and had been done to me. I left and refused to return for many years. In fact I had never planned to return because I knew that the equilibrium I had left would never change and would always try to hurt me. Then I read a part about respecting our mothers and fathers and something came over me that was almost in its own way a sort of passion in that something kept urging me to change and give in. This was no light or easy thing. I knew I would be hurt and I had engaged in much work and was deeply embedded in some very important work that, although had been completed, I felt responsible to continue out of a sort of fitting in where I had found my niche, far away in a foreign land and in truth was quite well as I was, in peace and moving on in life. But there was that statement and deep down I knew that this is what my Creator was letting me know would be better for me. I knew this from faith in other times and situations where I let His will run my show for awhile. I was never let down nor bad off for having done so even though usually I never saw any results that would make my efforts worth it. After a long soul searching and naturally wanting to continue and not return to a place that would harm me to give my respects to some people, just let them see me and know I was well. But I decided to chance it. I have never been defrauded this way before. But I knew I was going to get hurt. I'm no idiot, a fool yes, but idiot, perhaps somewhat. So I gave in and within me let, what I figured, was His Will in the matter. I got delayed, accused falsely and jailed. In jail the authorities harmed me in such a manner that there is still one that has to be cleared up with an apology, even though it will never come. The judge was quite upset that such a thing could happen and since there had been no crime in the first place, let me go. I crawled back to the foreign land I lived in and have been there ever since. What and why did I do such a thing? For many years I didn't know but after awhile I realized that what really happened is I opened a door that has led me back to communicating many times with my father. And in that I thank God because I have no regrets for having done so. Whereas if I had not done so the door would have stayed closed and I may not ever have gotten to know how great and special my earthly father really is, now more precious than ever in his old age. This was a divine thing that worked in me and it all had to do with just that what you asked about... His Will or yours, what will it be. Each and every time I have taken or made such a choice, although broke and penniless, I do not regret having put my faith in Him. If you try it He will start you out on simple things so that eventually something very important to you even though you don't know what it is, will ask only that you have faith in Him and you will give it a try but with the knowledge that He has never let you down.
  12. Hi, Interesting theme... themes. For many of us I'm sure it was curiosity about the more intrinsic side of thinking related to what our imaginations depicted and our intuitions urged at that we stumbled through the libraries seeking amongst the plethoras of pertinent material. I did not have such a privilege. The only thing I had was the Bible that included such things as contradictions such as Jesus being the one and only Son of God and then encountering statements such as in Job where the sons of god came together and amongst them was Satan etc. And then of course Melchesidec at Salem and the mentioning of Jesus in Hebrews about Him being a High Priest in the order of Melchesidek etc. Sort of left me on my own when it came to figuring it all out which of course I never did. What I did get was mention of a silver cord going back to whence it came and several other things like Daniels vision and things I've only seen taking lots of acid. What it did do was tell me a lot of things about eternal life and how faith was the key... I think it worked quite well. Not too long after I encountered the Urantia Book. Then I realized I am only one pea in a pod, perhaps a grain of sand that got pushed in when He walked by. Now am I more than just a mere ant crawling across His arm while he patiently puts me back in my ant hole here on this ball of coagulated atoms spinning around in circles. Was I even a genome when Adam and Eve were here? And am I more than a bacteria in a petri dish in His laboratory being enabled for some bacterial duty like penicillin ready to strike out and take out those bad infections that sprout like weeds in His perfect Garden? Yet, as small and insignificant I consider myself in the overall picture... I know that at that intrinsic level where I sought for more understanding, the faith in me although weak and feeble as it really is, can swim the currents and hold my own in there where all this takes place. Where I find in need of some well being, when the river is swollen and pouring over the edges and me in the middle hanging on, there is that rock, solid and firm and standing strong. As the years go on I find new and interesting things, ways to express these more modern concepts of ours, through the Urantia Book that is up to date linguistically. Maybe a little ahead still in most cases. These experiences that we have, these eurika moments and so little language available that adequately expresses our true inner selves, advanced and sophisticatedly complex and here we were still entangled in language concepts so inadequate that there was no way to really express ourselves verbally and that caused problems. Sometimes we would just nod at each other in understanding for we knew of no way to verbally share the moment. The Urantia Book has revealed to us a linguistic form of putting together this intrinsic reality. In a way a revelation that has brought together and touched upon our very beings and has aided us in giving us a way to communicate our most passionate experiences. Take the forward, how many times have we heard people using the word symbol God; read this to them and if they accept it there can be a continuation of the conversation whereas many people I encounter let it go in one ear and out the other and continue on discussing their point of view that is still a bit antiquated and totally useless accept to brush and stroke each other in some old ritual that really has nothing to do with the words they are using. And on page 10, The Supreme Being, concerning eternity relationships. For the cells that make up our body, we are the supreme being for them, a cosmic micro center of the bigger picture. We are that personality that for them is supreme and eternal, for after our personalities leave this universe of cells they no longer continue to exist as such. Perhaps a feeble example but what else is there for us who really have no other means available to relate such profound depths. Thanks Pa'demnims
  13. Thanks Rick... The info is great for me. It saves me a lot of research and time. My spanish is horrible and on top of that I must try to work my way through concepts that are not understood and explained literally utilizing concepts with proper nouns where the mental picture associates formally within the mind of the recipiant. To understand this and be able to transmit this encounters some difficulty linguistically. Not that the Spanish forum isnt already extremely intelligent and tolerant of my sloppy endeavors. I find the Love emitted strong, comfortable and enticingly attractive. So as I said, etymological interest is very helpful and truthfull even if only with the intelligent theories of how and why things were done as they are in the Urantia Book.
  14. Hi... Rick, I thank you very much for the informative essay and if you come up with more I will be glad to read it. Thanks Pa'demnims.
  15. Incredibally ingeinious I might add. Very hard to disqualify and reduce into a critical account. As was the Bible, done by the Stundents For Christ in the early 70's which renders an amazingly wonderful and more down to earth understanding of many of the enigmatic pasages, all of which were traced back to human origins. Of course spiritual inspiration being totally valid there. Here in the Urantia Papers the contents lead inward or, if one is already there... to the understanding and verbalization of what one has experienced in a language pattern accesible and transferable on a transactional level. Thanks Pa'demnims
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