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Particle physics and the UB


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#41 -Scott-

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 11:11 PM

Hi Warren:

I will give you something to picture that is 3 dimensional; A brick. Now 6 dimensional; A spinning top. Now 7 dimensional; A tornado.

Regards, Louis


Hahah okay :). Now what about 0 dimensions? haha
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#42 Louis aka loucol

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:09 AM

Hahah okay :). Now what about 0 dimensions? haha



Yes Warren, I forgot zero dimensions. Zero dimensions means no extensions in space, having no space or motion (time). Examples are the point (at the center of the cube-sphere) , the void, the vacuum, Paradise. :D

Regards, Louis

Edited by loucol, 05 November 2012 - 07:12 AM.

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#43 Louis aka loucol

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:30 PM

One addition bit of explanation is warranted here, however. Of course all is in reality 7 dimensional, including the brick and spinning top mentioned above since these were used merely to illustrate a gross point. Those objects themselves are also seven dimensional in The fact that their Ulimatons are tint tornados (7 dim), the first units of measurable energy that have Paradise as its nucleus.

Regards, Louis
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#44 -Scott-

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:48 PM

Right but there is still matter on paradise so a vacuum is not really a good comparasion. I thinks its impossible to know.

Edited by Warren Scott, 05 November 2012 - 04:49 PM.

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#45 Louis aka loucol

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:25 PM

I see that I have not chosen my words carefully enough. Rather than vacuum lets call it a spaceless vacuum or a spaceless void. Either one I think should suffice for the purposes of this discussion. when there are no dimensions or zero dimension we are referring to that which has no space, not that which has no matter. BTW, can you site an example of matterless space? Perhaps unpervaded space. One cannot represent Paradise, that would be an impossibility, but there is something to be said for striving to understand the Infinite with all the symbols the finite mind has at its disposal. We can progress to Ultimacy, and strive for the absolute.

Regards, Louis

Edited by loucol, 05 November 2012 - 06:31 PM.

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#46 -Scott-

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 07:19 PM

How about a motionless pancake as Paradise? Hahaha
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#47 Louis aka loucol

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:25 PM

No Warren. Pancakes occupy space in my stomach and they are round, not elliptical!
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#48 -Scott-

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:46 AM

True but if it is motionless it is not interacting with or in space. IMO Anything in motion including space would be like a shadow trying to touch the true substance of motionless. Isn't the ellipse a philosophical construct? If shadows are any indication of whats true, perhaps since our galaxies are long and think like a pancake or a disc, that this model could have some higher representation. "As above so below"? It would also be more economical for the procession of matter from paradise to go out in a stream on lines that are coplanar. The 7 superuniverses seem to be all on the same level, one is not alot higher than the other. So if Paradise is the center of all things and all matter proceeds from it than it just seems logical that matter would proceed out from paradise not in a circle but out straight, so it would make sense to me anyway if it was a disc like shape. This is all just speculation, this is probably the topic I know the least about in all the u.b. The rotations of the universe in this model would be more like the rotations inside a clock. A disc shape seems to be such a perfect shape for many reasons IMO. But it would appear everybody who becomes a scientist in the world has some shape or theory that they love more than life itself hahah so I won't hold onto this one like its my baby.

Edited by Warren Scott, 06 November 2012 - 01:02 AM.

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#49 Louis aka loucol

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:51 PM

Warren: here are some quotes from TUB regarding the ellipse. Creation thickens as it proceeds further our from the Central creation. It is not a flat disc.


11:5.4 3. Occupying the outer margins of the under surface is a region having mainly to do with space potency and force-energy. The activities of this vast elliptical force center are not identifiable with the known functions of any triunity, but the primordial force-charge of space appears to be focalized in this area. This center consists of three concentric elliptical zones: The innermost is the focal point of the force-energy activities of Paradise itself; the outermost may possibly be identified with the functions of the Unqualified Absolute, but we are not certain concerning the space functions of the mid-zone.



11:5.7 The outer zone is the largest and most active of the three concentric and elliptical belts of unidentified space potential. This area is the site of unimagined activities, the central circuit point of emanations which proceed spaceward in every direction to the outermost borders of the seven superuniverses and on beyond to overspread the enormous and incomprehensible domains of all outer space. This space presence is entirely impersonal notwithstanding that in some undisclosed manner it seems to be indirectly responsive to the will and mandates of the infinite Deities when acting as the Trinity. This is believed to be the central focalization, the Paradise center, of the space presence of the Unqualified Absolute.



11:7.5 If you imagine a finite, but inconceivably large, V-shaped plane situated at right angles to both the upper and lower surfaces of Paradise, with its point nearly tangent to peripheral Paradise, and then visualize this plane in elliptical revolution about Paradise, its revolution would roughly outline the volume of pervaded space.



11:7.7 The relatively quiet zones between the space levels, such as the one separating the seven superuniverses from the first outer space level, are enormous elliptical regions of quiescent space activities. These zones separate the vast galaxies which race around Paradise in orderly procession. You may visualize the first outer space level, where untold universes are now in process of formation, as a vast procession of galaxies swinging around Paradise, bounded above and below by the midspace zones of quiescence and bounded on the inner and outer margins by relatively quiet space zones.



11:7.8 A space level thus functions as an elliptical region of motion surrounded on all sides by relative motionlessness. Such relationships of motion and quiescence constitute a curved space path of lessened resistance to motion which is universally followed by cosmic force and emergent energy as they circle forever around the Isle of Paradise.



11:8.2 The center and focal point of absolute material gravity is the Isle of Paradise, complemented by the dark gravity bodies encircling Havona and equilibrated by the upper and nether space reservoirs. All known emanations of nether Paradise invariably and unerringly respond to the central gravity pull operating upon the endless circuits of the elliptical space levels of the master universe. Every known form of cosmic reality has the bend of the ages, the trend of the circle, the swing of the great ellipse.



12:1.2 The successive space levels of the master universe constitute the major divisions of pervaded space — total creation, organized and partially inhabited or yet to be organized and inhabited. If the master universe were not a series of elliptical space levels of lessened resistance to motion, alternating with zones of relative quiescence, we conceive that some of the cosmic energies would be observed to shoot off on an infinite range, off on a straight-line path into trackless space; but we never find force, energy, or matter thus behaving; ever they whirl, always swinging onward in the tracks of the great space circuits.



12:1.3 Proceeding outward from Paradise through the horizontal extension of pervaded space, the master universe is existent in six concentricellipses, the space levels encircling the central Isle:



14:1.15 The great belt of dark gravity bodies is divided into two equal elliptical circuits by a unique space intrusion. The inner belt revolves counterclockwise; the outer revolves clockwise. These alternate directions of motion, coupled with the extraordinary mass of the dark bodies, so effectively equalize the lines of Havona gravity as to render the central universe a physically balanced and perfectly stabilized creation.



15:1.2 We have long since discovered that the seven superuniverses traverse a great ellipse, a gigantic and elongated circle. Your solar system and other worlds of time are not plunging headlong, without chart and compass, into unmapped space. The local universe to which your system belongs is pursuing a definite and well-understood counterclockwise course around the vast swing that encircles the central universe. This cosmic path is well charted and is just as thoroughly known to the superuniverse star observers as the orbits of the planets constituting your solar system are known to Urantia astronomers.



41:9.2 Atoms and electrons are subject to gravity. The ultimatons are not subject to local gravity, the interplay of material attraction, but they are fully obedient to absolute or Paradise gravity, to the trend, the swing, of the universal and eternal circle of the universe of universes. Ultimatonic energy does not obey the linear or direct gravity attraction of near-by or remote material masses, but it does ever swing true to the circuit of the great ellipse of the far-flung creation.



57:5.5 As Angona more closely approached the sun, at moments of maximum expansion during solar pulsations, streams of gaseous material were shot out into space as gigantic solar tongues. At first these flaming gas tongues would invariably fall back into the sun, but as Angona drew nearer and nearer, the gravity pull of the gigantic visitor became so great that these tongues of gas would break off at certain points, the roots falling back into the sun while the outer sections would become detached to form independent bodies of matter, solar meteorites, which immediately started to revolve about the sun in elliptical orbits of their own.



58:3.3 These eventualities in the origin of the space rays are determined by many cosmic occurrences as well as by the orbits of circulating matter, which vary from modified circles to extreme ellipses. Physical conditions may also be greatly altered because the electron spin is sometimes in the opposite direction from that of the grosser matter behavior, even in the same physical zone.



103:6.14 When the philosophy of man leans heavily toward the world of matter, it becomes rationalistic or naturalistic. When philosophy inclines particularly toward the spiritual level, it becomes idealistic or even mystical. When philosophy is so unfortunate as to lean upon metaphysics, it unfailingly becomes skeptical, confused. In past ages, most of man’s knowledge and intellectual evaluations have fallen into one of these three distortions of perception. Philosophy dare not project its interpretations of reality in the linear fashion of logic; it must never fail to reckon with theelliptic symmetry of reality and with the essential curvature of all relation concepts.



105:0.1 TO EVEN high orders of universe intelligences infinity is only partially comprehensible, and the finality of reality is only relatively understandable. The human mind, as it seeks to penetrate the eternity-mystery of the origin and destiny of all that is called real, may helpfully approach the problem by conceiving eternity-infinity as an almost limitless ellipse which is produced by one absolute cause, and which functions throughout this universal circle of endless diversification, ever seeking some absolute and infinite potential of destiny.



As you can see , the ellipse is not merely a "philosophical construct".



Regards, Louis


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#50 -Scott-

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:40 PM

hmmm maybe you are more correct than I was haha. It would appear it is an ellipsoid. I guess an oddly inflated pancake could be an ellipsoid? hahah

(119.3) 11:2.2 In form Paradise differs from the inhabited space bodies: it is not spherical. It is definitely ellipsoid, being one-sixth longer in the north-south diameter than in the east-west diameter. The central Isle is essentially flat, and the distance from the upper surface to the nether surface is one tenth that of the east-west diameter.

Edited by Warren Scott, 06 November 2012 - 06:41 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#51 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:12 AM

Dear Nelson G,

If the space between two points means something, does that same space have meaning when those points are removed?


What a splendid probe for focussing our attention, and for provoking questions!

What if we put such probes in different places, and at different times? Should we expect to measure differences in the nature and content of (absolutely ultimate) space? We could put a couple above and within the disc of our galaxy. We could drop others in the quiet places beyond Orvonton, but inside the rings of outer space. Even sprinkle some in the perpendicular places of unpervaded space. And why not slip a few into those all-enveloping quiescent zones?

Such variety of states of space. What might such a set of probes reveal?

Given that all these space-like components of the cosmos depend on Paradise, there may be some predictable, describable transition (in nature and content) as we move one of your attention-focusing probes from horizontal to vertical space, or simply within the different subspaces of the master universe.

But let's begin by exploring closer to home, and put a probe in what began as Andronover and became Nebadon. (651.3, 57:1.1) If we use the upgraded version of your probe (the one with both time-like and space-like functions) we can watch the fabric of Nebadon ripen.

Thanks to the 5th epochal revelation, what might we expect to see? In particular, with regard to ultimatons...

Nigel

#52 Louis aka loucol

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:53 PM

Hi Nigel and NelsonG:

Why not see the ultimaton as a tiny universe with all of the corresponding 'space-like components'?


104:4.43 The Conjoint Actor universally integrates the varying functional aspects of all actualized reality on all levels of manifestation, from finites through transcendentals and on to absolutes. The Universal Absolute perfectly compensates the differentials inherent in the varying aspects of all incomplete reality, from the limitless potentialities of active-volitional and causative Deity reality to the boundless possibilities of static, reactive, nondeity reality in the incomprehensible domains of the Unqualified Absolute.



105:2.10 6. The Infinite Capacity. I AM static-reactive. This is the endless matrix, the possibility for all future cosmic expansion. This phase of the I AM is perhaps best conceived as the supergravity presence of the Unqualified Absolute.



105:3.7 6. The Unqualified Absolute. Static, reactive, and abeyant; the unrevealed cosmic infinity of the I AM; totality of nondeified reality and finality of all nonpersonal potential. Space limits the function of the Unqualified, but the presence of the Unqualified is without limit, infinite. There is a concept periphery to the master universe, but the presence of the Unqualified is limitless; even eternity cannot exhaust the boundless quiescence of this nondeity Absolute.




Perhaps the points of space are static vs the reactive space between points? I do not know where this places the absonite level, however. What lies between the static and the reactive, or is this wrong thinking?



Regards, Louis


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#53 Nelson G

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:05 PM

But let's begin by exploring closer to home, and put a probe in what began as Andronover and became Nebadon. (651.3, 57:1.1) If we use the upgraded version of your probe (the one with both time-like and space-like functions) we can watch the fabric of Nebadon ripen.

Thanks to the 5th epochal revelation, what might we expect to see? In particular, with regard to ultimatons...


Unity would be my expectation. We have not yet dealt with one material probe. All have been mental. I find this to be facinating.
Ideas + reflective self + indwelling presence of a fragment of absolute unity - alive and working here and now.
Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#54 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:20 PM

Hi Louis,

Perhaps the points of space are static vs the reactive space between points? I do not know where this places the absonite level, however. What lies between the static and the reactive, or is this wrong thinking?


Nice work, pointing us to this static-reactive aspect of the infinite capacity of the I AM. This seems like the place to begin when considering relationships between Paradise and the Unqualified Absolute. And as you say, this may be the place to go hunting for material absonites.

With regard to static-reactive interaction, in (105:3.7) we get this: "Space limits the function of the Unqualified, but the presence of the Unqualified is without limit, infinite." When they say "the presence of the Unqualified", do you think they mean presence in space? PS: I like how they say the function of the Unqualified is qualified by space, but the presence of the Unqualified is not qualified. Clearly, this Melchizedek has a sense of humour :D

So how does this infinite, static-reactive aspect of the I AM trickle down to affect us? What bending over backwards was required to allow discreet ultimatons to exist in space? From what they can reveal, clearly the two orders of Master Force Organizers serve as part of the Paradise technique for interacting with the unqualified reactor. Think how this "tag-team" mediate a transition of space potency -- from its existence relative only to the "supergravity presence of the Unqualified Absolute" -- to responsiveness to the absolute gravity of Paradise. Given these antecedents, I have to wonder about the "linear gravity" operating between sequestered lepto-quarks. Is this local finite "force" some clever repackaging of Paradise gravity? What else could it be? Likewise the other forces modelled by current physics... are they too best thought of as some folding of Paradisiacal control into the finite? Is this how we can trace the fact that "Gravity is the sole control of energy-matter."? (10.3) 0:6.11

Next up some ideas about what happens when Nelson G's two objects are there, then not there.

Nigel

#55 Nelson G

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:56 PM

Next up some ideas about what happens when Nelson G's two objects are there, then not there. Nigel ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Thinking about this a bit more I will take a stab at it. If memory serves, was it Dirac?? that did some experiments with vacuum and found that once he achieved the best vacuum possible with the equipment available to him, he found that particles and their anti counterparts would pop in and out of existance within the vacuum. I will extrapolate this to mean that the space between two points will always have meaning because there will always be points. Remove them and more will appear to replace them. Does this idea removes the distance or coordiante measurements? If so, what remains?

Edited by Nelson G, 19 November 2012 - 01:11 AM.

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