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Pentecost ~ May 18 ~ Bestowal of The Spirit of Truth


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#21 Bonita

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 02:08 PM

My plan was to use the notion of material light wiggling through a material ether as a non-personal analogy of Love (analog of light in the Personality
domain) wiggling through Truth (a Personality-responsive medium).


So, is there such a thing as a nonpersonal analogy of love? In order to satisfy the purpose of analogy, one must show that two seemingly dissimilar items or ideas are in some way similar to one another by comparison. How are light and love dissimilar and how can you can compare them in such a way to make them similar? Are you talking strictly about material light or are you including spiritual light? Material light is nonpersonal energy, but love is not referred to as an energy and it is always personal. Spiritual light may be personal or impersonal but not nonpersonal (as far as I know).

TUB tells us that divinity is comprehensible as truth, beauty and goodness. Consider the following quote:

0.1.17 Divinity is creature comprehensible as truth, beauty, and goodness; correlated in personality as love, mercy, and ministry; disclosed on impersonal levels as justice, power, and sovereignty.



I read this to mean that truth, love and justice are analogous terms in that they are dissimilar but by comparison can be shown to have similarities. Truth is comprehensible divinity, love is truth correlated in personality, which means that it depends upon personality for comprehension. Justice is truth on an impersonal level, meaning it functions as nonpersonal, subpersonal or prepersonal, yet all are responsive to personality. There is a difference between impersonal and nonpersonal. Which one do you mean? TUB tells us that nonpersonal is a subset of impersonal.

107.7.4 Human will functions on the personality level of universe reality, and throughout the cosmos the impersonal — the nonpersonal, the subpersonal, and the prepersonal — is ever responsive to the will and acts of existent personality.



Nigel, I really am having difficulty following the logic, honestly I am. I don't mean to put you on the defensive though. You may be entirely correct about all of this, while I may be entirely dense, so please don't feel like I'm putting you on the spot or attempting to engage in an argument over what might seem to be trivialities. I'm just trying to see it with your eyes, and so far I can't, even with the pictures.

Incidentally, have you ever wondered why they call it "light and life" rather than "light and love" or "life and love"?

#22 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 02:25 PM

Dear Bonita,

Thank you for probing! Those illustrations are simply my feeble attempt to draw a long bow: to differentiate 1. Personality from {2. spirit, 3. mind, 4. matter}; to illustrate how {spirit, mind, matter} serve by eventuating a "master universe" (absonite womb?) within which all seven dimensions of we fragments of the substance of our Father can unfold; to imply that we are wilful personalizations of an Adjuster-fragment of the I AM; that, as finalized personalized fragments of the I AM, the only stage on which we can truly spread our wings is "the absolute", in collaboration with "God the Absolute". And that our evolution and ascension through Dad's finite and absonite nurseries sets us up for "subinfinite penetration" of that realm our Father calls home.

"The type of personality bestowed upon Urantia mortals has a potentiality of seven dimensions of self-expression or person-realization. These dimensional phenomena are realizable as three on the finite level, three on the absonite level, and one on the absolute level. On subabsolute levels this seventh or totality dimension is experiencible as the fact of personality. This supreme dimension is an associable absolute and, while not infinite, is dimensionally potential for subinfinite penetration of the absolute." (1226.13) 112:1.9

Regarding the three familiar illuminations:

" [...]; therefore is the universe illuminated by three kinds of light: material light, intellectual insight, and spirit luminosity." (9.10) 0:6.8

I was hoping to suggest that, as each of the delegated domains (matter, mind, spirit) have their characteristic -- and measurable -- "light", the primary domain, that aspect of reality which the Father did not delegate, that domain gripped by the grasp of the one un-measureable gravity, is illuminated by an un-measureable illumination, Love.

PS: when you describe difficulties "following the logic", relax... I doubt there is logic to find! Please forgive the clumsiness of expression and illustration, and (like a seasoned sister) simply enjoy the sincere struggle of a happily floundering brother :o

As always, with thanks!
Nigel

#23 Bonita

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 01:53 PM

Thank you for probing! Those illustrations are simply my feeble attempt to draw a long bow: to differentiate 1. Personality from {2. spirit, 3. mind, 4. matter}; to illustrate how {spirit, mind, matter} serve by eventuating a "master universe" (absonite womb?) within which all seven dimensions of we fragments of the substance of our Father can unfold; to imply that we are wilful personalizations of an Adjuster-fragment of the I AM; that, as finalized personalized fragments of the I AM, the only stage on which we can truly spread our wings is "the absolute", in collaboration with "God the Absolute". And that our evolution and ascension through Dad's finite and absonite nurseries sets us up for "subinfinite penetration" of that realm our Father calls home.


Greetings Nigel,

I've read the above paragraph over and over again for the past week. I think I'm beginning to see what you see but I'm not sure. I'm asking for permission to "pick apart" what you wrote above with the intention of learning more. For instance, I notice that you frequently use the term "absonite womb". I'm wondering what you mean by that. I also am interested to know if you perceive the master universe as a means by which the Father reveals his personality or a medium in which to explore his personality, or both. Lastly, I'm intrigued by your statement, "that we are willful personalizations of an Adjuster-fragment of the I AM." I believe we are persons even without Adjuster-fragments of the I AM, so am I misunderstanding what you wrote?

Edited by Bonita, 05 January 2011 - 01:53 PM.


#24 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 01:40 PM

Dear Bonita,

I'm asking for permission to "pick apart" what you wrote above with the intention of learning more. For instance, I notice that you frequently use the term "absonite womb". I'm wondering what you mean by that. I also am interested to know if you perceive the master universe as a means by which the Father reveals his personality or a medium in which to explore his personality, or both. Lastly, I'm intrigued by your statement, "that we are willful personalizations of an Adjuster-fragment of the I AM." I believe we are persons even without Adjuster-fragments of the I AM, so am I misunderstanding what you wrote?

Great questions -- please, do "pick apart" so we can all explore this deepest of themes together!

As I see it, one of our Father's purposes is to establish an absolute family, a family of persons,
each able to interact with him in a nontrivial way. (As humans, we do tend to "come apart at the
seams" at the lightest touch of his love... )

Ok, first things first: to be able to endure and enjoy an eternal infinity with our Dad, we need an
absolute foundation. This is perfectly provided by his prepersonal fragments (Thought Adjusters).
Upon such a foundation he can build something wonderful... us! Of course as we know, our only
'claim to fame' is that unique point of personality our Father bestows on us. By wilful choice, we
are free to align this personality, our only gift, with his Will -- his "love incarnate in our souls"
[(107:0.2) 1176:2]

In this sense I see each of us as a "wilful personalization of an Adjuster". As I understand it, Dad
can achieve this personalization in one of two ways: either by fiat (direct personalization e.g. as
at Jesus' baptism, p.1511:2) or by the human technique. The first way only he can accomplish.
The second way requires the best efforts of his team of Creator Sons. They become the Way
by which he achieves his most personal of purposes.

In this sense, the universe is very much a family affair. Or as we say down.under,
"Love is the business of persons."

Bonita, fire at will :)
Nigel

"The Adjusters are the actuality of the Father's love incarnate in the souls of men;
they are the veritable promise of man's eternal career imprisoned within the mortal
mind; they are the essence of man's perfected finaliter personality, which he can
foretaste in time as he progressively masters the divine technique of achieving the
living of the Father's will, step by step, through the ascension of universe upon
universe until he actually attains the divine presence of his Paradise Father."
[(107:0.2) 1176:2]

This paragraph sums it up nicely!

#25 Bonita

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 02:47 PM

". . . we are willful personalizations of an Adjuster-fragment of the I AM."


Although I think I grasp your meaning of the above (more or less), let me tell you what bothers me about it. It may be simply a difference in interpreting the vocabulary. Probably.

I don't see myself as a personalization of the Adjuster. I rather see myself as a person striving to become personalized in attunement to the true essence of personality within me, the Adjuster. Yes, I'm willful; yes, I'm a person; yes, I'm indwelt by a fragment of the I AM; but no, I am not yet fully personalized. I am not yet real. I am seeking personality realization and am in the process of becoming a perfected finaliter personality in partnership with the Adjuster fragment incarnate in my soul.

The sentence you wrote reminds me of many of the New Age religions which claim that we are already perfect and only need to remember our perfection, our Source, in order for it to be realized in our lives . . . that our imperfection is due to our inability to perceive ourselves as we truly are and all we need to do is raise our consciousness to that perfect level. Bull. It's simply not true . . . completely bass ackwards.

So, I don't think we are personalizations of the Adjuster-fragment of the I AM until we become finaliters, and even then I'm not sure.

Is that what you were saying?

Were you going to explain the absonite womb thingy?

#26 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 06:04 PM

Hi Bonita,

I don't see myself as a personalization of the Adjuster. I rather see myself as a person striving to become personalized in attunement to the true essence of personality within me, the Adjuster. Yes, I'm willful; yes, I'm a person; yes, I'm indwelt by a fragment of the I AM; but no, I am not yet fully personalized. I am not yet real. I am seeking personality realization and am in the process of becoming a perfected finaliter personality in partnership with the Adjuster fragment incarnate in my soul.

Yes, thanks for helping to clarify. What I have in mind is that when we (finally) emerge from that absonite womb thingy our personality will have (finally and wilfully) fertilized that absolute adjuster foundation. In those crude glyphs above ( post 17 ) , all of this priceless preliminary experiential growth occurs within what I call the momentary slice of the master universe age. This commits all sorts of philosophical blunders, but allows me as a mathematician to juggle n-dimensional geometries :)

It is that momentary slice of the master universe age that I see as an absonite womb. In our Father's (absolute) frame of reference, the master universe age is just setting the stage for eternity. The qualified "absonite" and twice-qualified "finite" serve as places wherein all manner of seeds grow. As the most interesting of these "seeds" are personalized, womb seems an appropriate metaphor.

The issue of the non-time sequence experienced by our Father, and as viewed from Paradise, makes for interesting semantics. Thank you for helping to flesh this out. I blame the following paragraphs for my inadequate shorthand:

(1169.6) 106:7.7 To finite creatures of the grand universe the concept of the master universe seems to be well-nigh infinite, but doubtless the absonite architects thereof perceive its relatedness to future and unimagined developments within the unending I AM. Even space itself is but an ultimate condition, a condition of qualification within the relative absoluteness of the quiet zones of midspace.

(1170.1) 106:7.8 At the inconceivably distant future eternity moment of the final completion of the entire master universe, no doubt we will all look back upon its entire history as only the beginning, simply the creation of certain finite and transcendental foundations for even greater and more enthralling metamorphoses in uncharted infinity. At such a future eternity moment the master universe will still seem youthful; indeed, it will be always young in the face of the limitless possibilities of never-ending eternity.


This thread really requires access to the middling planes of morontia mota :D
Can anyone else help us out?
Nigel

#27 Bonita

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 09:25 PM

I'm defining absonite as a level without beginning or end, a level that is not created but eventuated. As far as I understand it, we are meant to live and grow within a level that has beginnings and ends. We are created beings therefore I'm not comfortable with an absonite womb. The womb in which I am developing has time and space, beginnings and ends. It is not absonite. No where near it. I can't relate at all to the absonite womb thingy. Tell me where I'm going wrong.

#28 FTFSGRL

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 02:59 AM

What's wrong with opinion? It's my opinion that none of us can post divine truth. Everything we write or say has gone through our human filter and must then be truth according to our personal experience with it/him. Truth is highly personal and always relative, at least on this level of existence.

Opinion is wonderful. Type in the word "opinion" on a TUB search engine and you will see how often the authors themselves use it. The entire book is written based upon fact and opinion according to the authors. It is not an inspired text.

101.4.2 Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired.

101.4.5 Truth may be but relatively inspired, even though revelation is invariably a spiritual phenomenon. While statements with reference to cosmology are never inspired, such revelations are of immense value . . .



I suppose what you're really hoping is that you are posting personal revelation, which may be relatively inspired, and therefore a useful insight worth sharing with other truth-seekers. Now, just so you know, I got into a heap of trouble claiming that once. In fact I was booted off a forum because the administration thought I was claiming to channel divine truth directly from God. How absurd! Can't be done! Not by us, anyhow . . . just sayin'



Good morning Bonita, et al.

The difference between perspectives, opinions and truth....

Personal experience leads to learning which forms our perspective and opinions. Why cannot divine truth be shared? Divine truth is the basis of all perpetual thought. Divine truth leads all spirits to the same truth. When it is the same truth, no matter how one has gotten there, the truth is still the same.

What are some divine truths you can think of? The gifts to humanity, love and mercy are some.... :)

#29 FTFSGRL

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 03:43 AM

Bonita, Nigel, et al.

I hope to not interfere with your wonderful exploration of this topic, but I feel compelled to join as well.

To begin with, once one has gained an understanding of truth, one also starts to evolve in experience... in personality... in wisdom... all spiritual of course... not only is the spiritual panoramic view wanted, it is essential in seeing absolute truth in all aspects of all life from Father descending down to lower species like us. On this realm/plane, and on others.

Faith assurance.... it is the basic belief without any proof that Father exists. A faith of belief... hence us all being faith sons.

Personality assurance... this can be achieved when one has had a communion of complete will, full belief in faith, a higher understanding and wisdom of the cosmos and its workings (such as Jesus had)

When one achieves this assurance, the personality circuit, by way of Master Michael to all his children, is... to best describe it... unconsciously understood. Each personality has devoted their life in eternity to Father. We all share this quality, if we have willed to do so. We all share the same gift of Spirit of Truth, which leads us all to the same divine truths, if we have chosen to will it. Higher personalities are similar to us, have gotten to truth, some in the same way, others may have come to be with a gift of pre-knowledge(which are already connected). We all will to be devoted to Father and one must understand that Father has willed to each of us the truth and experience of what one can most benefit from at that time to grow in Father. Understanding that all personalities are connected via Master Michael and realizing that when one truly communes within as one with the Son, we are also a part of the personality circuit. It is this communion that has given reassurance of personality salvation through mercy and love.

There is always more that can be explained, but when there are other many details involved, keeping it short is hard.
I have a hard time to "condense" explanations @ times. Forgive me if my response seems staggered. I hope you can include my thoughts in your personal internal debates. :)

#30 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 05:08 AM

Thanks for joining in, FTFSGRL -- and oh my, "Personality assurance"... you hit a high note, there :)

But first, back to that absonite womb thingy. Bonita, my fascination with wombs and the more-than-finite began when I had to come up with a short skit for one of our conferences. This may help set the stage:

Immanuel's Bar & the Parable of the Womb.

Three guys walk into a bar, a Life Carrier, a Lanonandek and a Melchizedek. Immanuel, as usual, is behind the bar polishing glasses.
"Welcome lads!" he says as they enter. "What’ll it be?" "The usual, thanks." they reply.
"Righto -- a pint of material light for our Life Carrier friend, a snifter of intellectual insight for our young Lanonandek, and two fingers of spirit luminosity for the Professor."
The three thank him, and settle back. It's been a long day. Now Life carriers are always animated, but Immanuel notices that this particular chap is beaming. "Things going well, are they?" prompts Immanuel.

[ Life Carrier ] "Oh yes!" enthuses the Life Carrier. "Breakthrough in womb technology! You know how, on some inhabited worlds, the native populations are not smoothly blended with their Adamic uplifters, like on Michael's Urantia? Well we finally got it sorted. No more morning sickness, easier births. For millions of such mothers, a much better process in every way." He takes a deep draft from his pint of light and beams brighter still. "You know, I never tire of the idea, that Finaliters begin their ascent as mere fragments in a mortal mother's womb. "

All three sit quietly for a moment, reflecting upon the Finaliters, those made in the image of the Father, fostered by the efforts of the Life Carriers on the material worlds.

[ Lanonandek ] The Lanonandek, considering his glass, adds "Indeed, the womb is a powerful metaphor. Consider how the entire human life serves as womb for the soul, that first-stage morontia form we use to launch their ascendant careers." He sips from his snifter of insight and reflects on the millions of such souls that he and his team have helped foster.

[ Melchizedek ] The Melchizedek, professor at the Local Universe U., furrows his brow. "The womb is indeed a deep concept. We actually run a course, exploring how the entire local universe career serves as gestation for those first-stage spirit ascenders -- those chips off the old block -- whom we help Michael launch toward Paradise and the Father. In this sense we might even say that all of Nebadon serves as a vast magnificent womb."

These three local universe sons, quietly reflecting upon the phenomenon of Man, his cycles of embryonic assembly in this variety of wombs, and what it might all mean.
Immanuel, polishing glasses still, glances and winks at One sitting over in the corner, quietly alone; a Solitary Messenger. "Anything to add, Solo?"
In that uncanny way in which Solitary Messengers move, he is no longer [in the corner, on the Far Side], but behind and leaning on the bar, beside Immanuel.

[ Solo ] "Well yes. From our frame it looks like this: the Father desired a full family, of Ones like the Son but in splendid variation. So he had his Architects make a "master universe", to serve as womb for fragments of himself. Such fragment-seeds become "adjusters within humans", aligning with their seven dimensions of personality. Such "embryonic man" becomes "ascending Son", able and intended to grow all the way.

We see that HUMAN is part of a technique used by the Father to zip together two fragments of himself, adjuster and person.

And my, what a scheme! Just qualify a little space, add a touch of time, and voila! -- seven dimensional Sons emerging from their absonite womb -- a family of "associable absolutes", just right and ready for sub-infinite penetration of the Father's actualizing absolute domain." [(112:1:9) 1226:13]
- - - - -

The point of the story? What may seem like a career can still serve as gestation ?
Nigel

#31 Bonita

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:13 AM

Nigel, Nigel,

Everything in the parable was fine until you got to fragment seeds (what the hell is that?), the zipper and the absonite thingy.

I don't know about you but I'm not getting zipped with my Adjuster and my Adjuster was never a seed. My soul might be metaphorically considered to be a seed, but never my Adjuster . . . . never. But hold that thought for a moment and let's deal with the absonite thingy.

I, myself, do not live in an absonite womb. I live in a finite womb, (even though the idea of a womb gives me the creeps). I was created and the level of reality I function in is finite and will remain finite all the way to the Supreme.

0:1.11 The finite level of reality is characterized by creature life and time-space limitations. Finite realities may not have endings, but they always have beginnings—they are created. The Deity level of Supremacy may be conceived as a function in relation to finite existences.

0:1.12 The absonite level of reality is characterized by things and beings without beginnings or endings and by the transcendence of time and space. Absoniters are not created; they are eventuated—they simply are

.

Even as finaliter, I won't be able to fully grasp absonite reality.

10:8.7 The Corps of the Finality embrace, among others, those mortals of time and space who have attained perfection in all that pertains to the will of God. As creatures and within the limits of creature capacity they fully and truly know God. Having thus found God as the Father of all creatures, these finaliters must sometime begin the quest for the superfinite Father. But this quest involves a grasp of the absonite nature of the ultimate attributes and character of the Paradise Father. Eternity will disclose whether such an attainment is possible, but we are convinced, even if the finaliters do grasp this ultimate of divinity, they will probably be unable to attain the superultimate levels of absolute Deity.



Therefore, in no way could I ever consider myself to be in an absonite womb and the whole thing smacks of Eastern philosophy to me. A little too woo woo for my taste. In fact, the whole womb metaphor makes me feel slimy, wet and a bit irritated . . . probably a remnant of my hospital days where I spent way too much time putting epidurals in women who were feeling a bit hostile towards their wombs in a very finite way.

So you did say, "fire at will," right? . . . . . Yeah? . . . . Ok . . . . So go on then, what the hell is a fragment seed? And how does this zipper thingy work again? I'm stubborn, convince me.

#32 Bonita

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:21 AM

Hi FTFSGRL,

You wrote, "I have a hard time to "condense" explanations @ times." I confess that I'm having a little trouble following you. I think that I'm on board with what you're saying, but I need to clarify a few points. Perhaps I will be just reiterating what you already said but in a different way, I don't know for sure, so please don't be offended. Here goes, it's long-winded unfortunately.

To begin with, once one has gained an understanding of truth, one also starts to evolve in experience... in personality... in wisdom... all spiritual of course... not only is the spiritual panoramic view wanted, it is essential in seeing absolute truth in all aspects of all life from Father descending down to lower species like us. On this realm/plane, and on others.


We never attain a full understanding of truth. We attain a full relationship with truth. There is a big difference there. Truth is a relationship and the Spirit of Truth is the living spirit of relationships of things and persons.

56:10.13 The recognition of true relations implies a mind competent to discriminate between truth and error. The bestowal Spirit of Truth which invests the human minds of Urantia is unerringly responsive to truth — the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are co-ordinated in the eternal ascent Godward.



It does not matter how far you advance in the ascension career, your experience with truth will always be relative to the relationships you form with people and things.

2:7.2 Evolving personalities are only partially wise and relatively true in their communications. They can be certain only as far as their personal experience extends. That which apparently may be wholly true in one place may be only relatively true in another segment of creation.



Divine truth, or absolute truth as you call it, is not completely attainable.

42:03-04 Divine truth, final truth, is uniform and universal, but the story of things spiritual, as it is told by numerous individuals hailing from various spheres, may sometimes vary in details owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience.



As for faith assurance, much has to do with the difference between truth and fact. We can be assured that we have an experience, a relationship with God, but we can never fully understand the fact of God. Truth is a living relationship with God and the term "living" means adaptable and relative. Whereas the fact of God is an absolute, all else in regards to God is relative. We take the fact by faith, but the truth we experience now within the relationship, which is always changing.

102:6.6 Though reason can always question faith, faith can always supplement both reason and logic. Reason creates the probability which faith can transform into a moral certainty, even a spiritual experience. God is the first truth and the last fact; therefore does all truth take origin in him, while all facts exist relative to him. God is absolute truth. As truth one may know God, but to understand — to explain — God, one must explore the fact of the universe of universes. The vast gulf between the experience of the truth of God and ignorance as to the fact of God can be bridged only by living faith. Reason alone cannot achieve harmony between infinite truth and universal fact.

102:7.2 God is the one and only self-caused fact in the universe. He is the secret of the order, plan, and purpose of the whole creation of things and beings. The everywhere-changing universe is regulated and stabilized by absolutely unchanging laws, the habits of an unchanging God. The fact of God, the divine law, is changeless; the truth of God, his relation to the universe, is a relative revelation which is ever adaptable to the constantly evolving universe.



Personality assurance... this can be achieved when one has had a communion of complete will, full belief in faith, a higher understanding and wisdom of the cosmos and its workings (such as Jesus had)


I beg to differ. Personality assurance is personality survival. It means that we are guaranteed to survive if we have faith. The way toward assurance is salvation and salvation is the process of progressing God-consciousness, Adjuster attunement, circle conquest and personality realization, all of which are attained with faith as the foundation or cornerstone.

101:2.14 Your deepest nature — the divine Adjuster — creates within you a hunger and thirst for righteousness, a certain craving for divine perfection. Religion is the faith act of the recognition of this inner urge to divine attainment; and thus is brought about that soul trust and assurance of which you become conscious as the way of salvation, the technique of the survival of personality and all those values which you have come to look upon as being true and good.



When one achieves this assurance, the personality circuit, by way of Master Michael to all his children, is... to best describe it... unconsciously understood.


I'm not certain that I've read anywhere that Michael has anything at all to do with the Father's personality circuit. Michael is involved with the spirit gravity circuit of the Eternal Son. The Father's personality circuit is entirely different and under his own jurisdiction. The Master Son is always coordinate with the Father's personality circuit; and, the Master Son has his own access to the personality circuit. Is that what you mean?

Each personality has devoted their life in eternity to Father. We all share this quality, if we have willed to do so. We all share the same gift of Spirit of Truth, which leads us all to the same divine truths, if we have chosen to will it.


Contrary to popular belief, not everyone has accessed him/herself to the Spirit of Truth. His presence within the soul is not automatic. He must be invited, or as you say, "chosen to will it." So yes, we share the same gift, but not everyone avails themselves of it. Furthermore, his function within the soul is entirely limited by the individual's willingness to accept the Gospel.

34:5.5 Though the Spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man's personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son.



Understanding that all personalities are connected via Master Michael and realizing that when one truly communes within as one with the Son, we are also a part of the personality circuit. It is this communion that has given reassurance of personality salvation through mercy and love.



Communion with the Son is different from communion with the Father. Communion with the Son is over the spirit-gravity circuit. Once we attain communion over the personality circuit, we are entering into worship and this is an experience involving only the soul and the Adjuster, not the Son. True worship is initiated by the soul but carried out by the Adjuster. All other matters of communion with spirit remain in the realm of spirit-gravity.

5:3.2 Supplications of all kinds belong to the realm of the Eternal Son and the Son’s spiritual organization. Prayers, all formal communications, everything except adoration and worship of the Universal Father, are matters that concern a local universe; they do not ordinarily proceed out of the realm of the jurisdiction of a Creator Son. But worship is undoubtedly encircuited and dispatched to the person of the Creator by the function of the Father’s personality circuit. We further believe that such registry of the homage of an Adjuster-indwelt creature is facilitated by the Father’s spirit presence. There exists a tremendous amount of evidence to substantiate such a belief, and I know that all orders of Father fragments are empowered to register the bona fide adoration of their subjects acceptably in the presence of the Universal Father. The Adjusters undoubtedly also utilize direct prepersonal channels of communication with God, and they are likewise able to utilize the spirit-gravity circuits of the Eternal Son.

5:6.11 As all gravity is circuited in the Isle of Paradise, as all mind is circuited in the Conjoint Actor and all spirit in the Eternal Son, so is all personality circuited in the personal presence of the Universal Father, and this circuit unerringly transmits the worship of all personalities to the Original and Eternal Personality.

5:3.8 The mortal mind consents to worship; the immortal soul craves and initiates worship; the divine Adjuster presence conducts such worship in behalf of the mortal mind and the evolving immortal soul.



I think what you mean when you say, " . . . all personalities are connected via Master Michael" is that the Spirit of Truth draws all believing personalities to himself; he connects all of us as members of a spiritual family, which he called the kingdom of God. This drawing power of the Spirit of Truth is in addition to the Adjuster. The personality circuit of the Father does not draw personalities together as a family; it draws a single personality to the Father in worship. That is notwithstanding the fact that the Father is capable of drawing all personalities at the same time within that circuit; however, it is not meant to be a circuit within which we fellowship with one another. We fellowship only with the Father in the personality circuit. The Spirit of Truth, on the other hand, does unite the fellowship of personalities together, one with the other. We are all drawn first to him and then to the Father via the ascension plan, not the personality circuit. The personality circuit is strictly between God and the soul and can be had anywhere at anytime, without the Spirit of Truth necessarily being involved.

174:5.13 And now I declare to you that I, if I be lifted up on earth and in your lives, will draw all men to myself and into the fellowship of my Father.

180:5.11 . . . the Spirit of Truth, who directs the loving contact of one human being with another.

195.10.1 And when Jesus becomes thus lifted up, he will draw all men to himself.

34:4.5 This bestowed Comforter is the spiritual force which ever draws all truth seekers towards Him who is the personification of truth in the local universe.

157:6.10 No man in this world now sees the Father except the Son who came forth from the Father. But if the Son be lifted up, he will draw all men to himself, and whosoever believes this truth of the combined nature of the Son shall be endowed with life that is more than age-abiding.

40:6.6 3. You are sons because the spirit of a Son has been poured out upon you, has been freely and certainly bestowed upon all Urantia races. This spirit ever draws you toward the divine Son, who is its source, and toward the Paradise Father, who is the source of that divine Son.

1.4.2  The physical bodies of mortals are “the temples of God.” Notwithstanding that the Sovereign Creator Sons come near the creatures of their inhabited worlds and “draw all men to themselves”; though they “stand at the door” of consciousness “and knock” and delight to come in to all who will “open the doors of their hearts”; although there does exist this intimate personal communion between the Creator Sons and their mortal creatures, nevertheless, mortal men have something from God himself which actually dwells within them; their bodies are the temples thereof.

108:4.1 Said your Paradise bestowal Son when yet on Urantia, “I, if I am lifted up, will draw all men.” This spiritual drawing power of the Paradise Sons and their creative associates we recognize and understand, but we do not so fully comprehend the methods of the all-wise Father’s functioning in and through these Mystery Monitors that live and work so valiantly within the human mind.



#33 FTFSGRL

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:15 AM

Bonita,

Can I ask a favor of you?

Can I ask you to try a different way to perceive things by offering a different way to try?

I ask you not to read too much into each individual "topic", and not to quote TUB. Take all you know, through thought and experience, reference and entwine that in along with your thoughts. Use your heart to guide you to what is truth, without physical words. Take your time in doing so to ensure the proper guidance, revelation and eventual answer.

I will ask you to remember that all personalities have different experiences, not to mention the previous experience of the thought adjuster(if any). One has to remember that thought adjusters may have a much higher knowledge of all with the more experience it has had. While, no, not all truths can be formulated in physical words, divine truth is universal to all. The basis for life for all. It is relative to the extent that each personality may not comprehend a higher level of truth from a more experienced personality (*based on capacity remember*) The truths from experiences are occurrences that help guide our personality to divine truth(universal).

I will ask that you open your mind, and not allow yourself to be guarded and too focused on any particular thought or "written" guide. Use them as a basis, but always follow your heart to the truth within EVERYTHING.

The difference between faith and personality assurance.... faith assurance.... is based on faith only. One can have a solid belief that Father exists, which is the only entrance requirement to the next plane of existence if one agrees to will it. No proof what-so-ever that it will occur. It is the blind belief of salvation. That is it, nothing more.
Again, personality assurance... it is the spiritual proof by way of my relationship within the One that assures personality survival. It cannot, and is not the same as personality survival. It is assurance that by following Father's will, personality salvation is given if both personalities will it. It is not by any means an absolute ending, like personality survival implies.

In this thought, one also needs to be aware and include the history of Urantia as well. Due to the rebellion, communication circuits were severed with Urantia until the gracious gift of the bestowal of Michael and his consequent gift of the spirit of truth. Through Michael, and his gift of spirit, we are on a personality circuit, if we choose to will it with understanding, of course.

The Trinity is also involved in these things. One is to remember that the Father and Son are one(by Trinity). When one has communion with Michael, in essence, one also indirectly is in communion with Father because they are one. Master Michael speaks to the Father on behalf of a personality if it is indeed the will of the Father and that personality. This also pertains to the drawing of the personality to them. Since Father and Son are one, by drawing to the Son, one, in turn, is drawn to the Father since they are in one, the same....

#34 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 12:17 PM

Hi FTFSGRL, all,

I appreciate your comments and the comments of others. Perhaps what you are getting at is one of my favorite reminders from the book and I occasionally bring this forward:

There are many spiritual influences, and they are all as one. Even the work of the Thought Adjusters, though independent of all other influences, unvaryingly coincides with the spirit ministry of the combined influences of the Infinite Spirit and a local universe Mother Spirit. As these spiritual presences operate in the lives of Urantians, they cannot be segregated. In your minds and upon your souls they function as one spirit, notwithstanding their diverse origins. And as this united spiritual ministration is experienced, it becomes to you the influence of the Supreme, "who is ever able to keep you from failing and to present you blameless before your Father on high." P. 95 - §7


You are correct about the history of Urantia and the significance of unseen influences upon our history. Our assignment is to do the will of God. Each one of us speak and write in a particular style of expression. And this is the way it is and should be. Certain posters are verbose. Others, who may be primary speakers in a non-English language, may provide short comments. Others who are English language speakers might also provide short and succinct comments. My question is: Are the posts comprehensibe? Does anything in a post inspire me to comment or ask a question? I admit the long posts are hard for me to get through. I can see how you might want Bonita to write a different way, but this is how she expresses herself. I have a different way of expressing myself and so do you. I'm glad to be talking to you for a change. I think it takes tremendous courage to post on this forum. My hope is that the flavor of friendliness emanates from what people write here. As for myself, a working person, I do not have the luxury of time to discuss with others some things I would like to discuss. Oh well. That's the way it is for me. And when I do write, I do use many quotes from the book. I am of the opinion that references to the book are what people should read for the main reason that each person will get something out of the references for himself/herself. But not in giant doses. After all, moderation eventuates in charm.

All the best,
Meredith

#35 Bonita

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:02 PM

Bonita,

Can I ask a favor of you?

Can I ask you to try a different way to perceive things by offering a different way to try?

I ask you not to read too much into each individual "topic", and not to quote TUB. Take all you know, through thought and experience, reference and entwine that in along with your thoughts. Use your heart to guide you to what is truth, without physical words. Take your time in doing so to ensure the proper guidance, revelation and eventual answer.


This is a TUB forum and on this forum we study TUB, therefore I will continue to offer quotes as they pertain to the topic I am discussing. And my posts, by the way, are based upon my own personal thought and experience and are from the heart. Absolutely genuine and real.

I'm getting the impression that people are tired of reading my posts, so I'll post a whole lot of very short statements instead. See how that goes.

#36 Bonita

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:03 PM

I will ask you to remember that all personalities have different experiences, not to mention the previous experience of the thought adjuster(if any).


What do you mean by the "previous experience of the thought adjuster"? Are you suggesting reincarnation or the gnostic belief in pre-existence of the soul?

That is not a teaching of this revelation.

#37 Bonita

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 01:05 PM

The truths from experiences are occurrences that help guide our personality to divine truth(universal).


Interesting idea. How does one get guided to the "truth from experience" in the first place?

Personal religious experience is the same as personal revelation. Revelation reveals the truths of divinity, not necessarily divine universal or absolute truth. No one can claim to know absolute truth.

#38 FTFSGRL

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 02:31 PM

This is a TUB forum and on this forum we study TUB, therefore I will continue to offer quotes as they pertain to the topic I am discussing. And my posts, by the way, are based upon my own personal thought and experience and are from the heart. Absolutely genuine and real.

I'm getting the impression that people are tired of reading my posts, so I'll post a whole lot of very short statements instead. See how that goes.


Forgive me, but I am not asking you to change expression...it is to try to refrain from using quotes to express your thoughts/beliefs. You are not the book. I ask this to truly see what YOUR perspective is as an individual personality. I am by no way saying that you do not post your expression from the heart at all.... I want to know you as a personality...

I have offered another way to process the information, of patience, to help guide you. It isn't about any of these things we post about individually, but how the totality of it all comes together to shape spiritual truths for all of us, leading us all back to Father, but also aiding in brotherhood of man. :)

I'm sorry if I offended you as this is not, and was not my intent. :D

#39 FTFSGRL

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 02:38 PM

What do you mean by the "previous experience of the thought adjuster"? Are you suggesting reincarnation or the gnostic belief in pre-existence of the soul?

That is not a teaching of this revelation.



No, please read up on Thought Adjusters....

"Supreme Adjusters - have served in the adventure of time on the evolutionary worlds, but whose human partners for some reason declined eternal survival and have subsequently assigned to other mortal adventures..... a supreme Adjuster can do things in the human mind which a less experienced Adjusted could not do." pg 1178

#40 Bonita

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:57 PM

No, please read up on Thought Adjusters....

"Supreme Adjusters - have served in the adventure of time on the evolutionary worlds, but whose human partners for some reason declined eternal survival and have subsequently assigned to other mortal adventures..... a supreme Adjuster can do things in the human mind which a less experienced Adjusted could not do." pg 1178


So what is your point exactly? Are you saying that Adjusters with previous experience are better able to impart divine truth to their hosts whereas inexperienced Adjusters have more difficulty? There is some validity to that. But what does that have to do with the topic of the relativity of truth. It doesn't matter how much experience an Adjuster has, truth is still relative, here, there and everywhere where there happens to be the phenomenon called experience. Maybe you can explain why this point you make is relevant?




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