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#61 menno

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 11:27 AM

Todd;

Going back to early May where you entered a couple of postings on this thread regarding "validity" of information contained within the Urantia Book.

If we consider the words of Jesus, quoted below, it may well be impossible to ever receive divine information which is 100% absolute and perfectly pure.

Paper 159.4.8 Jesus speaking to Nathaniel

"Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it"

#62 Bill Martin

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 03:42 AM

let me try to bring up some philo search engine finds and make a comment on them if i can. from a perusal of them it's hard for me to comment on anything than higher beings thought in the ub.

121:6.4 philo was a great teacher; not since Moses had there lived a man who exerted such a profound influence on the ethical and religious thought of the Occidental world. In the matter of the combination of the better elements in contemporaneous systems of ethical and religious teachings, there have been seven outstanding human teachers: Sethard, Moses, Zoroaster, Lao-tse, Buddha, philo, and Paul.

sethard isn't mentioned anywhere else in the book, i've never heard of him like the rest of these well-known teachers.




Rich,

Perhaps they refer to the last great teacher of the Second Epoch, Seth?

P.849 - §7 The religious rulers, or priesthood, originated with Seth, the eldest surviving son of Adam and Eve born in the second garden. He was born one hundred and twenty-nine years after Adam's arrival on Urantia. Seth became absorbed in the work of improving the spiritual status of his father's people, becoming the head of the new priesthood of the second garden. His son, Enos, founded the new order of worship, and his grandson, Kenan, instituted the foreign missionary service to the surrounding tribes, near and far.
The Sethite priesthood was a threefold undertaking, embracing religion, health, and education. The priests of this order were trained to officiate at religious ceremonies, to serve as physicians and sanitary inspectors, and to act as teachers in the schools of the garden.

Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#63 ubizmo

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:13 AM

Todd;

Going back to early May where you entered a couple of postings on this thread regarding "validity" of information contained within the Urantia Book.

If we consider the words of Jesus, quoted below, it may well be impossible to ever receive divine information which is 100% absolute and perfectly pure.

Paper 159.4.8 Jesus speaking to Nathaniel

"Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it"


The question, then, is whether the fallibility of the UB should be understood in terms of actual errors in content, or failure to express adequately the concepts being presented.

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 10:02 AM

probably, i know of no other famous seth's. i guess it would be interesting to know that his full name is sethard, of course why not use sethard back in this quote? eh, conjecture - the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

Rich,

Perhaps they refer to the last great teacher of the Second Epoch, Seth?

P.849 - §7 The religious rulers, or priesthood, originated with Seth, the eldest surviving son of Adam and Eve born in the second garden. He was born one hundred and twenty-nine years after Adam's arrival on Urantia. Seth became absorbed in the work of improving the spiritual status of his father's people, becoming the head of the new priesthood of the second garden. His son, Enos, founded the new order of worship, and his grandson, Kenan, instituted the foreign missionary service to the surrounding tribes, near and far.
The Sethite priesthood was a threefold undertaking, embracing religion, health, and education. The priests of this order were trained to officiate at religious ceremonies, to serve as physicians and sanitary inspectors, and to act as teachers in the schools of the garden.



#65 Bonita

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 10:13 AM

I was under the impression that the lure of TUB is the fact that it did not pass through a conscious human mind and therefore contains little or no of the aforementioned partiality or impurity which is caused by contamination with "animal-level mind".

In that quote, Jesus was explaining scripture to Nathaniel. Scripture is inspired and TUB is not inspired. Meaning . . . scripture is created by the inspired human mind as it attempts to express its partial consciousness of the divine which is inspiring it.

101:4.2 Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve.

88:2.10 To become fetishes, words had to be considered inspired, and the invocation of supposed divinely inspired writings led directly to the establishment of the authority of the church, while the evolution of civil forms led to the fruition of the authority of the state.



None of that happened with TUB, which makes it unique, and probably experimental, given our propensity to revere things we think are inspired. The fact that TUB is not inspired can actually make it seem less venerable. Human mind tends to recognize as valid only what is filtered through other human minds. In order to recognize and assimilate TUB truth, one must approach it with something other than the human mind.

0:12.13 We are fully cognizant of the difficulties of our assignment; we recognize the impossibility of fully translating the language of the concepts of divinity and eternity into the symbols of the language of the finite concepts of the mortal mind. But we know that there dwells within the human mind a fragment of God, and that there sojourns with the human soul the Spirit of Truth; and we further know that these spirit forces conspire to enable material man to grasp the reality of spiritual values and to comprehend the philosophy of universe meanings. But even more certainly we know that these spirits of the Divine Presence are able to assist man in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience — God-consciousness.



There is a difference between inspiration and revelation even though the two may overlap. I presume that revelation is nearly always inspirational whereas inspiration is not always revelatory.

#66 menno

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 10:47 AM

The question, then, is whether the fallibility of the UB should be understood in terms of actual errors in content, or failure to express adequately the concepts being presented.


Since I first became aware of the Urantia Book (in 1971) I have wrestled with finding the answer(s) to that very question, for many years.
What has brought me peace of mind has been the realization that the truths which I have discovered within the book, have greatly overshadowed the mysteries that it still failed to explain.

I love the UB for all of the understanding that it has given me; including the words spoken to Nathaniel, where Jesus is essentially saying that I, a human mortal, can not be given 100% of the whole truth. It is just part of the human condition

Maybe, one day in the future, a newer and greater revelation will appear, which will fill in many of the "missing pieces" in this great puzzle we call life here on Urantia. And yet, there will probably be some future readers of that great Book, who will discover that somehow there still seem to be things not fully explained.

#67 menno

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 11:22 AM

Bonita;

You sure are one tough cookie to tangle with. The mind of lawyer greatly tempered with a heart of gold.

In your last post on this thread, you state that the The Urantia Book did not pass through a "conscious human mind" (my quotations).

When Jesus spoke to Nathaniel, he did not mention "conscious" mind or "unconscious" mind. He just said "mind of man"

In Paper 110.4.7 it says "The Adjuster of the human being through whom this communication is being made..."

In Paper 114.7.7 it says words to the effect that it was through skillful penetration of the human mind, by the Secondary Midwayers in contact with the Thought Adjuster, that the UB was materialized in English on Urantia

No matter which way you want to slice it.....you are still left with the fact that the UB was transmitted through humans. Firstly through the mind of the sleeping subject, and then through the work of the human contact commission.

These are the facts as conveyed by the UB itself.....and by the fact that Dr. Sadler and the other members of the Contact Commission admitted that they "handled the material" that ultimately ended up as the Urantia Book

#68 Bonita

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 11:54 AM

You sure are one tough cookie to tangle with. The mind of lawyer greatly tempered with a heart of gold.


I'm not trying to tangle with anyone. I'm putting my ideas out in the public domain for those who are interested in reading them. But, they are certainly open to criticism, having come through a conscious human mind. (Incidentally, I'm not a lawyer, but I sure hope my heart is worthy.)

In your last post on this thread, you state that the The Urantia Book did not pass through a "conscious human mind" (my quotations).

When Jesus spoke to Nathaniel, he did not mention "conscious" mind or "unconscious" mind. He just said "mind of man"


I agree that Jesus did not mention conscious or unconscious. He was talking about scriptures and the scriptures were written by men who were conscious. Unconscious people don't write, unless the sleeping subject did actually write the Papers. And that is the point. The sleeping subject was unconscious. When he awakened and was questioned, he had no memory of the events. When he was hypnotized, there wasn't even unconscious memory of the events. His mind was empty, a clean slate.

Now, we know that the secondary midwayers penetrated the mind of this individual and presumably was able to use the vocal chords to speak, similar to the way that the rebel midwayers were able to enter certain minds and force them to do and say things prior to Pentecost.

p863:6 77:7.5 But before the days of Christ Michael on Urantia—before the universal coming of the Thought Adjusters and the pouring out of the Master's spirit upon all flesh—these rebel midwayers were actually able to influence the minds of certain inferior mortals and somewhat to control their actions.



Presumably, the words spoken through the physical mechanism of the sleeping subject were words spoken by the Midwayer, using the Midwayer mind, not the sleeping subject's mind.

Moving on to the next point, one has to believe that the Midwayer was saying what he was instructed to say and not that which he created in his own mind. This brings me to my point that the information that culminated in the Papers did not pass through the human mind, only the human body, more or less used as a transmitting machine.

If the information also bypassed the Midwayer mind, then it must be much purer and much less partial than anything an inspired human mind could ever create.

No matter which way you want to slice it.....you are still left with the fact that the UB was transmitted through humans. Firstly through the mind of the sleeping subject, and then through the work of the human contact commission.

These are the facts as conveyed by the UB itself.....and by the fact that Dr. Sadler and the other members of the Contact Commission admitted that they "handled the material" that ultimately ended up as the Urantia Book


Yes, transmitted through a human, but not a human mind, just the physical nervous system of a human. And, what I've read is that the contact commission did not alter the material, it only added punctuation. Even so, the revelators have said that TUB is relatively true . . . just like everything else. Only the Creators have infallibility and Jesus didn't write TUB, so yes, it's only relatively true, but a higher truth than anything we've seen so far.

And I'm truly sorry if you think I'm tangling with you. I call this a discussion, an exploration of information, a dialogue between interested students, an exchange of ideas . . . . I don't know . . . are you thinking that I'm trying to dictate law here? I don't get it.

#69 menno

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 02:50 PM

Bonita
I was trying to make a lighthearted remark about how this discussion was becoming such a legalistic type dialogue. I didn't think that you would take it so serious.

Actually I enjoy this exchange with you. I enjoy reading your comments.

#70 menno

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 04:42 PM

As I was saying; I enjoy this discussion about divine revelations and the human touch connected to them.

I would first like to repeat something that Jesus said in paper 159 "....nothing that human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible"

Now I shall add some facts uncovered by a friend of mine "Ernest P. Moyer" who has written a number of books; but in this case I shall refer to the one entitled "Birth of a Divine Revelation" The Origin of the Urantia Papers copyright year 2000


Anyways, I will not present all of his findings regarding the "human touches" involved with the UB presentation. Just a quick reference to what happened following the publication of the First Printing of the UB in 1955.
(quick note: I am fortunate to have a First Printing copy of UB once belonged to Timothy O' Leary's wife)

After the 1955 UB was published , serious scholars found 19 places where there were known errors and contradictions.
These were pointed out to W. S. Sadler and he had changes made to 8 of these before the second printing was done 12 years later.

A few examples of these errors and changes:

Paper 41 mentioned in, 1955 copy, reference to density of a nearby sun being sixty thousand times that of our sun.
Second printing had that number sixty changed to forty.

Paper 42 mentioned in 1955 copy; nuclear stability as more than 100 electrons are introduced artificially into one atomic system. The result is instantaneous disruption of the central "proton" with wild dispersion.
Second printing the word "well-nigh' was inserted before instantaneous .

Paper 123 1955 copy the word "east" changed to "west" regarding the "rocky hills of Moab" for the second printing.

Paper 179 1955 printing has Jesus addressing "the twelve" referring to his apostles (after Judas left the room.)
Second printing "twelve' is removed and replaced by "apostles"

I could go on with more but I believe that the point has been made. See opening remark about what Jesus said 2000 years ago to Nathaniel.

If we take every single word in the UB as being "exactly' as it was conveyed through the "unconscious mind" of the Sleeping Subject, we can be sadly mistaken.

It has been touched by human nature and as such it is to be approached with having the "Spirit of Truth" be the judge as to what is Truth for us and what is to be left alone.

#71 -Scott-

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 05:34 PM

Well in all fariness your copy does not really matter, its the prior copy's and the supposed plated copy that matter's. I could see someone typing a few error's into the 1955 copy though, because of the technology used in those day's. Etleast I was told by sr. reader's of U.B that there is a Plated copy from 1945.

I can live with a few error's if that is the case, but I am curious to what the 1945 copy say's, it could be that they reprinted the original text wrong from the 1945 plated copy. The 1945 copy is still in existence so I have been told, not 100 percent if these sr reader's were B.S-ing me though haha.

The only real obvous error is this statement. "reference to density of a nearby sun being sixty thousand times that of our sun.
Second printing had that number sixty changed to forty." I have a skepticism about this one being in the 1945 plated copy.

Edited by boomshuka, 25 May 2011 - 05:53 PM.

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#72 menno

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 06:01 PM

I wonder if your copy is the same copy made in 1945?, and I wonder if that is the same copy from 1934....I can live with a few error's if that is the case, but I am curious to what the 1945 copy say's, it could be that they reprinted the original text wrong from the 1945 copy. the 1945 copy is still in existence.


To my knowledge, 1955 was the year that the UB was first published. They printed 10,000 copies that year.

I have never heard of the UB being printed in 1945. Maybe you are confusing that date with the time that Mr. Kellogg first met with the printing company to arrange for the printing plates to be made. This happened in the 1940's

Regarding the errors; don't be concerned with them. Ernest Moyer, who wrote the book I mentioned before; is a firm believer in the Urantia Book, even though he discovered a lot of facts concerning the people involved with the process.

Another person, Harold Sherman who was involved with the Urantia Forum, back in the 1940's, also had concerns with the handling of the Urantia Papers in the early days; and yet he believed the information came from divine sources.
Note: Harold and his wife left the forum in 1947 after being members for 5 years (in fact they lived just across the street from the Urantia Book HQ in Chicago) And at that time, 1947, there was still no UB in printed/published form.
If you look at the back of his book "How to Know What to Believe" you will notice that he recommended the Urantia Book. I had the honor of meeting and then keeping in touch with him, before he passed away. He had no problem with me being a UB reader.

Bottom line is, even with the flaws, the Urantia Book is still the best source of Spiritual Knowledge on this planet.

#73 -Scott-

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:18 PM

Well I did a quick google search and it appear's that the 5th epochal revelation was finished in 1945 and put on plates during this year and than stored in a vault........ I am curious how this document compares with the 1955 published version. Also there was the proof read paper manuscript before the plated version....

Urantia Foundation was established in 1950 "on the basis of" the plates, (which now constituted the original text). The plates were stored in the vaults of the R.R. Donnelley & Sons Crawfordsville, Indiana plant from approximately 1945 until 1955, when the book was printed. After the printing was completed, they were then returned to the vaults.


I wonder why they changed it, did they just recoppy the original plated documents?????...It doesn't make any sense...why would they change such unimportant things in the urantia revelation?!. Like "well-nigh".....

Either they messed up in typing during the 1955 version when they copied it from the 1945 plated copy/manuscript, or someone had their own "Revelation" and changed the text because something or someone told them to...

hmmm makes me believe that some rebellous midwayer at some point made contact with someone who is involved in the u.b foundation because if the 1945 version the 1955 version and the new version are all different than someone had a huge brainfart, or they had some psycotic episode and changed the text. Human's like to change thing's to their own style, but to change something like the density of a nearby sun implie's they either made a typo or they were told to by something or someone, no one would change that on their own because there is no way they would know if what they are saying is true or not....

The story I get was that midwayer's were overseing the entire process untill 1955."The Contact Commission operated under celestial direction, and ceased to function after the publication of the original text in 1955". ...So I am assuming the 1955 copy is right, and the new version is slightly adultered for some uknown reason....I can see comma's and apostrophy's, but what would motivate someone to add in the words "Well Nigh"?!>>. Who gave someone permission to add the words "Well Nigh"?!, and for what reason would they do this?!

http://www.divinityw...rs/Epilogue.htm

The end of proprietorship

A History of The Urantia Papers



by Larry Mullins
with Dr. Meredith Justin Sprunger



Many of us who have the conviction that the Urantia Papers belong to the people also believe that, unknown to all of the Trustees at the time, the noble task of Urantia Foundation to preserve inviolate the original text of the Urantia Papers fell into default in 1967. Those responsible for this error were probably driven by the desire to have a "perfect book," as Carolyn Kendall explained. To achieve this human aspiration, these individuals elected to by-pass the Declaration of Trust and "correct" the original text by applying a "quick fix." There was no documentation, no paper trail, no unanimous vote by the Trustees. This impatient act of short-cutting of the appropriate processes eventually resulted in the 1967 default, and has been followed by increasing doubt and confusion among readers.



After Dr. Sadler's death, during the 1970's, the Foundation's original mission of preserving inviolate the original text of the Urantia Papers was supplanted by efforts to establish ownership of the text, ownership of the Banner of Michael, and ownership of the words "Urantia" and "Urantian." Secular enforcement of these claims was supported by alleged "secret mandates" that were never fully disclosed. Rumors surfaced that the last remaining "Contact Commissioner" reported that she was receiving "special messages" from Midwayers. Shortly after her death, Christy's heir-apparent, Vern Grimsley, also claimed to be in contact with celestial beings. More chaos and strife followed, and continues to divide the Urantia believers. And, in my judgment, nearly all of this cascading confusion has been the harvest of a single stupendous error: the taking of an expedient shortcut in an attempt to "correct" and make "perfect" The Urantia Book.



Most of us who believe the Urantia Papers belong to the people contend that there are no "secret messages" or special endowments to justify dishonoring the Declaration of Trust. We believe that the destruction of a substantial number of the plates in 1967 without the unanimous vote of the Trustees was a human error, and was not authorized by "Revelators" or "Midwayers." We do not believe the 92-year old Dr. Sadler had any part in or knowledge of the destruction of part of the Substantive Estate in 1967. We believe attempting to deny or cover-up the error has compounded it. In our judgment, the misguided actions of a few people have caused untold harm to the spiritual unity of the Urantia Movement. And we believe the fragmenting of the Urantia Movement stems, in large measure, from the false idea of ownership and the application of the unfounded proprietary and commercial "rights" of an entrenched few over a Revelation that in reality belongs to all of the people.


Distortion of a Divine Revelation



While the editing team and I were still researching and working on completing this history, yet another new history was published. Birth of a Divine Revelation by Ernest Moyer seeks to put forward several notions within its 600 pages that are so bizarre they need no comment. However, the book also postulates that the Urantia Papers were corrupted by Dr. Sadler, a charge that strikes at the heart of the integrity of the Urantia Revelation, and which cannot remain unanswered.



Each individual has a right to his or her own ideas. However, there is a discipline that is traditionally required of a historian who claims to be presenting reasonable notions to the reader. Like some other efforts by Urantians to write histories, in Birth of a Divine Revelation Moyer mixes pure speculation, undocumented claims, and established facts carelessly and without informing the reader which is which. It is these flaws that make Moyer's Birth of a Divine Revelation more of a collection of curious artifacts and theories than a serious historical work. Mr. Moyer attempts to degrade the personal experience and contributions of Dr. Meredith Sprunger -- and he seeks to cast doubt upon the personal integrity and professional competence of Dr. Sadler. To support his attacks, he uses sources such as Martin Gardner, Harold Sherman and H


Edited by boomshuka, 25 May 2011 - 08:15 PM.

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#74 menno

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 11:12 PM

If anyone wishes to see what the original 1955 UB looks like; just go to the Urantia Book Fellowship Urantia Book Online Study Edition where you can access it online

To see something interesting go to Paper 119.7.6 in the original and then open up one of the newer printings since 1967. Compare what it says about the wise men visiting the baby Jesus. From the second printing onward, there are three words missing: "in the manger"

The author of paper 119 is a Mighty Messenger

Kind of curious as to why it took from 1935 to 1967 to correct something that, if it was so important to remove it, could have been removed anytime during the time period of 1935 to 1945 when the printing plates were made.

All in all, it brings us back to what Jesus told Nathaniel back in Paper 159

#75 -Scott-

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 11:53 PM

I talk to a very private man in his 80's who had a friend in the forum and his story matches up with other published work from forum member's. For someone to change the material in 1967 they either would do so A) because they noticed a typo in the 1955 version via looking at the original manuscript and or Plates. Or B ) Where "allegedly" told by some external force by their Imaginition or percieved revelator's. To just whimsically add the word's "Well-Nigh" because it feel's right does not make any sense whatsoever. I cannot imagine any self motivated reason to do so in that sentence, someone must have been either decieved or reading the original manuscript/plates.

Since there is no documentation to give a rhyme or reason why they made change's in 1967 it would seem as though they did not use the plate's or original manuscript. Than they must have perceived that some divine force actually wanted them to make these changes in 1967, perhaps someone or some people had what they interpreted as divine contact at this point and used that as a motive.

Clearly though from what my friend told me and the published accounts from forum member's after the plates were plated in 1945 the midwayer's continued to monitor the revelation and the forum untill 1955 when it was finally published and than they finally "signed off". It would appear the revelator's made sure the revelation made its way threw as it was intended and that no bonehead could screw it up even if he tried to. Though of coarse 1967 is off limits.....

A side note my friend told me that the midwayer's were very interested in how the forum understood the material and were wanting them to understand the material before they released it in 1955. Though this could just be speculation I dont know.

Also I have read and was told that first contact happened in 1905, so for diety to be present from 1905 till 1955 it would appear as though they were taking all precaution's, unfortunetly they should have had someone stick around untill 1967 hahaha.

I think the reason it took from 1935 untill 1967 to correct a change was because human's had to wait untill after the first publication's to make change's to the revelation because the midwayer's were present with the forum untill the first published book's in 1955. The U.B's entire purpose is for the " authoritative elimination of error". This does not prove that there are any error's in the u.b, all this proves is that some bonehead changed the u.b in 1967 probably because he was hearing voice's that he interpreted as midwayer's.

The U.B is definitely incomplete, but so far there are no error's. Obviously though with the 1967 version we may encounter a few, but because the U.B has been adultered and admitidly so in 1967 than the argument of mistakes based on those change's is erronous. Untill someone proves errors in the 1955 version the book is still 100 percent accurate within the domain of what it is saying. Human's cannot get infallibility but we can achieve perfection "be you perfect even as your father is" and within the scope of what U.B is saying it is perfect.

Edited by boomshuka, 26 May 2011 - 12:10 AM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#76 Rick Warren

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 04:19 AM

Standardized Text:

http://www.urantia.o...standardization

#77 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 05:54 AM

To see something interesting go to Paper 119.7.6 in the original and then open
up one of the newer printings since 1967. Compare what it says about the wise
men visiting the baby Jesus. From the second printing onward, there are three
words missing: "in the manger"

Hi menno,


"... who had a room at the inn, ... where they lived for almost three weeks
... These men of God visited the newborn child in the manger.
... The babe was almost three weeks old at the time of their visit."

As this visit happened three weeks after the birth, I've always assumed
the family was in the process of departing to those "lodgings in the home
of a distant relative of Joseph" when the three "men of God" rocked up.

Imagine the Hollywood version... "And Mary said to Joseph: just a moment,
I forgot to say farewell and thanks to that nice man!" While Joseph pondered
all that had happened, three Kings rounded the corner of the lane leading
up to the inn. The family, together with these "men of God", step back into
the place of His birth -- "in the manger" -- for their private adoration.

As an astrophysicist, I learn not to second guess that Orvonton commission.
Nigel

#78 ubizmo

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 08:28 AM

Regarding the errors; don't be concerned with them. Ernest Moyer, who wrote the book I mentioned before; is a firm believer in the Urantia Book, even though he discovered a lot of facts concerning the people involved with the process.


I had a lot of online discussion with Ernest Moyer some years back, and met him once and had an opportunity to chat. His book is available in PDF for free at his web site: World Destiny. His apocalyptic views are very unpopular in the UB reader community. He is, however, a very careful researcher. He takes the position that the papers, as delivered by the actual revelators, were finished when "completed and certified" in 1934 and 1935, with Part IV coming a year later. He takes "completed and certified" to mean that they were in final form.

All sources agree that there were changes made to the text after that point. The question is, were they authorized by the revelators or not? Moyer believes they were not. Although his book is worth reading, for anyone interested in origins issues, a summary of Moyer's main argument is also found on his web site, in the form of a letter to David Kantor, here. Note that he also discusses some apparent errors in the UB there (not the scientific kind).

Regardless of what one thinks of Moyer's theories, he raises many questions. Some of them could have been answered if it were not for the dubious policy of destroying all the original papers and notes.

#79 menno

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  • Interests:Lifetime pursuit: Searching for truth. Found the Urantia Book to be an excellent source. I feel fortunate to have an original 1955 copy of "Big Blue" given to me by a friend in the book selling Business. Hobbies: traveling through the mountains in my Yukon XL

Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:08 AM

Standardized Text:

http://www.urantia.o...standardization


Very concise, detailed document on that website. Explains the errors with commas, spellings, capitalizing, underlinings, etc. But yet leaves some unanswered questions.

79.5.6 "west" changed to "east"
Question: What did the author say originally?

89.4.9 "coin" changed to "corn"
Question: What did the author say originally?

119.7.6 "in the manger" removed. Then explained within the website referred to above.
Question: What did the author say originally ?

176.3.4 "he" changed to "him"
Question: What did the author say originally ?

179.5.9 "twelve" changed to "apostles" and then changed to "eleven"
Question: What did the author say originally ?

As Todd has already mentioned; the original hand written papers were destroyed after the information was transcribed onto typed pages, we will never know what the answers to the above questions are.

Which leaves us with the fact that word changes were made to what was supposed to be an original document, including the removal of three words.

#80 Guest_rich_*

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:29 AM

Changes Made to the Text in This Set of Urantia Book Files

they've made changes to the text? i hope they're just cosmetic, but fortunately i have my inner pilot, the thought adjuster to help me with truth. 113:6.2 The instant the pilot light in the human mind disappears, the spirit luminosity which seraphim associate with the presence of the Adjuster, the attending angel reports in person to the commanding angels, successively, of the group, company, battalion, unit, legion, and host

Standardized Text:

http://www.urantia.o...standardization






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