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#41 Alina

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:08 PM

Hi Bonita.

Here,two quotes of interest in the UB.


Love is the desire to do good to others.p.64


This idea-ideal of doing good to others--the impulse to deny the ego something for the benefit of one's neighbor--is very circumscribed at first. Primitive man regards as neighbor only those very close to him, those who treat him neighborly; as religious civilization advances, one's neighbor expands in concept to embrace the clan, the tribe, the nation.

And then Jesus enlarged the neighbor scope to embrace the whole of humanity, even that we should love our enemies. And there is something inside of every normal human being that tells him this teaching is moral--right. Even those who practice this ideal least, admit that it is right in theory.p 1133/4


Greetings,
Alina.
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#42 Bonita

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:22 PM

Yes, and love is the "greatest relationship in the world". Have you ever wondered why TUB says "relationship"?

Jesus said that he wanted all of us to view God as a Father-friend, just as he is a brother-friend. Shouldn't we get to know God as a friend first? It is the heart of the message of the gospel.

159.3.9 In preaching the gospel of the kingdom, you are simply teaching friendship with God. And this fellowship will appeal alike to men and women in that both will find that which most truly satisfies their characteristic longings and ideals. Tell my children that I am not only tender of their feelings and patient with their frailties, but that I am also ruthless with sin and intolerant of iniquity. I am indeed meek and humble in the presence of my Father, but I am equally and relentlessly inexorable where there is deliberate evildoing and sinful rebellion against the will of my Father in heaven.


And doing the will of God, is simply the willingness to share the inner life with him, as a friend.

p1221:2  111:5.1  The doing of the will of God is nothing more or less than an exhibition of creature willingness to share the inner life with God—with the very God who has made such a creature life of inner meaning-value possible. Sharing is Godlike—divine.



#43 Alina

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 07:31 PM

I think everyone should do their own experience, some people recognize God as friend, sometimes as Father. Or both.

Quote Bonita
" Have you ever wondered why TUB says "relationship"?"

The following quotes "speak" better than me. B)

There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and relation. The religious consciousness identifies these realities as science, philosophy, and truth. Philosophy would be inclined to view these activities as reason, wisdom, and faith--physical reality, intellectual reality, and spiritual reality. We are in the habit of designating these realities as thing, meaning, and value.

The progressive comprehension of reality is the equivalent of approaching God. The finding of God, the consciousness of identity with reality, is the equivalent of the experiencing of self-completion--self-entirety, self-totality. The experiencing of total reality is the full realization of God, the finality of the God-knowing experience.

The full summation of human life is the knowledge that man is educated by fact, ennobled by wisdom, and saved--justified--by religious faith.

Physical certainty consists in the logic of science; moral certainty, in the wisdom of philosophy; spiritual certainty, in the truth of genuine religious experience.

The mind of man can attain high levels of spiritual insight and corresponding spheres of divinity of values because it is not wholly material. There is a spirit nucleus in the mind of man--the Adjuster of the divine presence. There are three separate evidences of this spirit indwelling of the human mind:
1. Humanitarian fellowship--love. The purely animal mind may be gregarious for self-protection, but only the spirit-indwelt intellect is unselfishly altruistic and unconditionally loving.

2. Interpretation of the universe--wisdom. Only the spirit-indwelt mind can comprehend that the universe is friendly to the individual.

3. Spiritual evaluation of life--worship. Only the spirit-indwelt man can realize the divine presence and seek to attain a fuller experience in and with this foretaste of divinity.

The human mind does not create real values; human experience does not yield universe insight. Concerning insight, the recognition of moral values and the discernment of spiritual meanings, all that the human mind can do is to discover, recognize, interpret, and choose. p2094


Thanks,
Alina.
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#44 Bonita

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 11:11 PM

Actually, this is the quote I was thinking of:

The recognition of true relations implies a mind competent to discriminate between truth and error. The bestowal Spirit of Truth which invests the human minds of Urantia is unerringly responsive to truth--the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are co-ordinated in the eternal ascent Godward. (647:04)

#45 Rick Warren

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 04:45 AM

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...Notwithstanding that God is an eternal power, a majestic presence, a transcendent ideal, and a glorious spirit, though he is all these and infinitely more, nonetheless, he is truly and everlastingly a perfect Creator personality, a person who can "know and be known," who can "love and be loved," and one who can befriend us; while you can be known, as other humans have been known, as the friend of God. He is a real spirit and a spiritual reality....


A Divine Counselor in Paper One of The Urantia Book - p28




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#46 Alina

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 01:19 PM

God is primal reality in the spirit world; God is the source of truth in the mind spheres; God overshadows all throughout the material realms. To all created intelligences God is a personality, and to the universe of universes he is the First Source and Center of eternal reality. God is neither manlike nor machinelike. The First Father is universal spirit, eternal truth, infinite reality, and father personality.

The eternal God is infinitely more than reality idealized or the universe personalized. God is not simply the supreme desire of man, the mortal quest objectified. Neither is God merely a concept, the power-potential of righteousness. The Universal Father is not a synonym for nature, neither is he natural law personified. God is a transcendent reality, not merely man's traditional concept of supreme values. God is not a psychological focalization of spiritual meanings, neither is he "the noblest work of man." God may be any or all of these concepts in the minds of men, but he is more. He is a saving person and a loving Father to all who enjoy spiritual peace on earth, and who crave to experience personality survival in death.

The actuality of the existence of God is demonstrated in human experience by the indwelling of the divine presence, the spirit Monitor sent from Paradise to live in the mortal mind of man and there to assist in evolving the immortal soul of eternal surviva
l P.24





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...Notwithstanding that God is an eternal power, a majestic presence, a transcendent ideal, and a glorious spirit, though he is all these and infinitely more, nonetheless, he is truly and everlastingly a perfect Creator personality, a person who can "know and be known," who can "love and be loved," and one who can befriend us; while you can be known, as other humans have been known, as the friend of God. He is a real spirit and a spiritual reality....


A Divine Counselor in The Paper One of The Urantia Book - p28



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#47 Rick Warren

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 04:55 AM

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...Some degree of moral affinity and spiritual harmony is essential to friendship between two persons; a loving personality can hardly reveal himself to a loveless person. Even to approach the knowing of a divine personality, all of man's personality endowments must be wholly consecrated to the effort; halfhearted, partial devotion will be unavailing....


A Divine Counselor in The Paper One of The Urantia Book - p30




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#48 Alina

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 06:27 PM

Thanks Rick!

With some frequency, it is difficult to find true friends.
The cause is explained in the quote.It is necessary affinity.
But sometimes it is difficult to find such affinity.
But of course we must adapt.
Is difficult when we are making an attempt to find new values in everything, in this case achieving a true friendship.
Perhaps one gets too pretentious sometimes. B)

Here's a valuable lesson about how Jesus did, to keep in mind when we are frustrated or do not know how to act.


His life association with us exemplifies the ideal of human friendship; only a divine being could possibly be such a human friend. He is the most truly unselfish person we have ever known. He is the friend even of sinners; he dares to love his enemies. He is very loyal to us. While he does not hesitate to reprove us, it is plain to all that he truly loves us. The better you know him, the more you will love him. You will be charmed by his unswerving devotion. Through all these years of our failure to comprehend his mission, he has been a faithful friend. While he makes no use of flattery, he does treat us all with equal kindness; he is invariably tender and compassionate. He has shared his life and everything else with us. We are a happy community; we share all things in common. We do not believe that a mere human could live such a blameless life under such trying circumstances.p.1785

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p221-And how deep is that friendship which grows up between the lowest personal creature from the worlds of space and these high personal beings native to the perfect spheres of the central universe!


Edited by Alina, 15 December 2009 - 06:42 PM.


#49 Rick Warren

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 05:04 AM

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...The concept of truth might possibly be entertained apart from personality, the concept of beauty may exist without personality, but the concept of divine goodness is understandable only in relation to personality. Only a person can love and be loved. Even beauty and truth would be divorced from survival hope if they were not attributes of a personal God, a loving Father....


A Divine Counselor in The Paper One of The Urantia Book - p31




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#50 Rick Warren

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:58 AM

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Goodness and love are certainly and intimately related, right? I understood so much more about the depth of the quality of goodness by holding this quote (From Paper 171, Sect 7, "As Jesus Passed By").

...Goodness always compels respect, but when it is devoid of grace, it often repels affection. Goodness is universally attractive only when it is gracious. Goodness is effective only when it is attractive.... P.1874 - §5

I'm lucky to be in a family that has a streak of goodness running down thru the generations. I'm doubly fortunate to live in a city that is known for its good-heartedness. But I must note that it always manifests in just one way---as a warm family feeling that wants nothing but to enjoy personal association in friendship, service, and maybe even worship, regardless of diversity of age, being or status.


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#51 Bonita

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 10:28 AM

.Goodness and love are certainly and intimately related, right? I understood so much more about the depth of the quality of goodness by holding this quote (From Paper 171, Sect 7, "As Jesus Passed By").

...Goodness always compels respect, but when it is devoid of grace, it often repels affection. Goodness is universally attractive only when it is gracious. Goodness is effective only when it is attractive.... P.1874 - §5

I'm lucky to be in a family that has a streak of goodness running down thru the generations. I'm doubly fortunate to live in a city that is known for its good-heartedness. But I must note that it always manifests in just one way---as a warm family feeling that wants nothing but to enjoy personal association in friendship, service, and maybe even worship, regardless of diversity of age, being or status..


But let us not forget that:

The idealization and attempted service of truth, beauty, and goodness is not a substitute for genuine religious experience--spiritual reality. p2095:06

In the physical universe we may see the divine beauty, in the intellectual world we may discern eternal truth, but the goodness of God is found only in the spiritual world of personal religious experience. In its true essence, religion is a faith-trust in the goodness of God. God could be great and absolute, somehow even intelligent and personal, in philosophy, but in religion God must also be moral; he must be good. Man might fear a great God, but he trusts and loves only a good God. This goodness of God is a part of the personality of God, and its full revelation appears only in the personal religious experience of the believing sons of God. 40:05


Likewise, Jesus taught:

Jesus always insisted that true goodness must be unconscious, in bestowing charity not allowing the left hand to know what the right hand does. 140.8.26

The righteousness of any act must be measured by the motive; the highest forms of good are therefore unconscious. Jesus was never concerned with morals or ethics as such. He was wholly concerned with that inward and spiritual fellowship with God the Father which so certainly and directly manifests itself as outward and loving service for man. He taught that the religion of the kingdom is a genuine personal experience which no man can contain within himself; that the consciousness of being a member of the family of believers leads inevitably to the practice of the precepts of the family conduct, the service of one’s brothers and sisters in the effort to enhance and enlarge the brotherhood. 170.3.9



#52 Rick Warren

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 04:28 AM

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...God is inherently kind, naturally compassionate, and everlastingly merciful. And never is it necessary that any influence be brought to bear upon the Father to call forth his loving-kindness. The creature's need is wholly sufficient to insure the full flow of the Father's tender mercies and his saving grace. Since God knows all about his children, it is easy for him to forgive. The better man understands his neighbor, the easier it will be to forgive him, even to love him....


A Divine Counselor in Paper Two of The Urantia Book - p38




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#53 Bonita

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:29 PM

Rick and All,

This topic on spiritual affection is a multifaceted one. For the most part, we've been discussing God's love for us, but what about the love experienced within the relationship between ourselves and our loving God? We are told God's love is a fatherly affection, yet one cannot deny that there exists a certain degree of passion between the creature and the Creator especially when the soul becomes aware of the depths of divine love.

It is true what TUB tells us, that our human understanding of love is completely inadequate and often embarrassing. In his teachings about spiritual love, Jesus never condemned any form of human love, not even illicit sex. I've spent years wondering about this and have made some observations about religion and love as it transitions between finite human love to transcendental divine love then back again to a transformed understanding of an elevated form of human love called "fatherly love". Consider the following quote:

156.5.5 “But let me warn you against the folly of undertaking to surmount temptation by the effort of supplanting one desire by another and supposedly superior desire through the mere force of the human will. If you would be truly triumphant over the temptations of the lesser and lower nature, you must come to that place of spiritual advantage where you have really and truly developed an actual interest in, and love for, those higher and more idealistic forms of conduct which your mind is desirous of substituting for these lower and less idealistic habits of behavior that you recognize as temptation. You will in this way be delivered through spiritual transformation rather than be increasingly overburdened with the deceptive suppression of mortal desires. The old and the inferior will be forgotten in the love for the new and the superior. Beauty is always triumphant over ugliness in the hearts of all who are illuminated by the love of truth. There is mighty power in the expulsive energy of a new and sincere spiritual affection. And again I say to you, be not overcome by evil but rather overcome evil with good.”


It is rare that the expression of one's intimate relationship with God does not involve some kind of passion. The inherent fact that the human psyche reacts on multiple levels to passion often complicates the human understanding of God's love and the human response to it. People who function on levels of mind which do not include soul consciousness, including primitive evolutionary religion, would seem to have a more difficult time idealistically dealing with the emotional impact of such an experience.

The Greeks had several different words for love: eros, agape, philia and storge. Most modern day Christians consider agape to be the love Jesus was referring to, but I'm not convinced. The word eros gets a bad rap because it is affiliated with romantic, passionate and sensual love and our puritanical heritage frowns on connecting this type of love with God. Yet, primitive religions often focused primarily on this feature of fertility, beauty and pleasure. The gods mated with each other and with humans in most of the ancient religions. Although Jesus never condoned these ancient beliefs, he never condemned them either, knowing that they are merely stepping stones used by the human psyche when filled with a desire for a higher and more satisfying form of love. (Let's face it, the sons of gods actually did mate with humans and the Material Son and Daughter were designed to procreate. We can't escape the facts.)

Mystics of all religions and through every age come up against this perplexing dilemma of eros when experiencing a personal and intimate devotion to God. History reveals the full gamut of human response to this problem from complete denial of the physical as in asceticism, to the complete embrace of the physical as seen in the Kama Sutra and by some medieval female mystics who claimed their desires were consummated by Christ himself. It appears that neither extreme is laudable. Jesus teaches that we must come to a place of spiritual advantage where we develop an interest and love for the "ideal".

People have spent their entire lives attempting to come to that very place of spiritual advantage and on the way have encountered eros as well as agape, philia and storge, none of which are "ideal". But are they too, stepping stones toward ideal fatherly love? I can't help but notice how this correlates to Jesus' talk on the six levels of the Golden Rule. Do we humans need to learn love by degrees? As we progress, the expulsive power which comes from living a new level of truth and love transforms our primitive understanding. Which is why TUB tells us that as we ascend the personality scale, make our circles, we first learn to be loyal, then to love, then to be filial. I believe that true loyalty begins with eros, in the Platonic sense, the involvement in a spiritual passion of the whole person. There is a certain romantic beauty in the loyal devotion experienced between the Creator and the creature.

#54 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 07:04 PM

Rick and All,

This topic on spiritual affection is a multifaceted one. For the most part, we've been discussing God's love for us, but what about the love experienced within the relationship between ourselves and our loving God? We are told God's love is a fatherly affection, yet one cannot deny that there exists a certain degree of passion between the creature and the Creator especially when the soul becomes aware of the depths of divine love.

It is true what TUB tells us, that our human understanding of love is completely inadequate and often embarrassing. In his teachings about spiritual love, Jesus never condemned any form of human love, not even illicit sex. I've spent years wondering about this and have made some observations about religion and love as it transitions between finite human love to transcendental divine love then back again to a transformed understanding of an elevated form of human love called "fatherly love". Consider the following quote:



It is rare that the expression of one's intimate relationship with God does not involve some kind of passion. The inherent fact that the human psyche reacts on multiple levels to passion often complicates the human understanding of God's love and the human response to it. People who function on levels of mind which do not include soul consciousness, including primitive evolutionary religion, would seem to have a more difficult time idealistically dealing with the emotional impact of such an experience.

The Greeks had several different words for love: eros, agape, philia and storge. Most modern day Christians consider agape to be the love Jesus was referring to, but I'm not convinced. The word eros gets a bad rap because it is affiliated with romantic, passionate and sensual love and our puritanical heritage frowns on connecting this type of love with God. Yet, primitive religions often focused primarily on this feature of fertility, beauty and pleasure. The gods mated with each other and with humans in most of the ancient religions. Although Jesus never condoned these ancient beliefs, he never condemned them either, knowing that they are merely stepping stones used by the human psyche when filled with a desire for a higher and more satisfying form of love. (Let's face it, the sons of gods actually did mate with humans and the Material Son and Daughter were designed to procreate. We can't escape the facts.)

Mystics of all religions and through every age come up against this perplexing dilemma of eros when experiencing a personal and intimate devotion to God. History reveals the full gamut of human response to this problem from complete denial of the physical as in asceticism, to the complete embrace of the physical as seen in the Kama Sutra and by some medieval female mystics who claimed their desires were consummated by Christ himself. It appears that neither extreme is laudable. Jesus teaches that we must come to a place of spiritual advantage where we develop an interest and love for the "ideal".

People have spent their entire lives attempting to come to that very place of spiritual advantage and on the way have encountered eros as well as agape, philia and storge, none of which are "ideal". But are they too, stepping stones toward ideal fatherly love? I can't help but notice how this correlates to Jesus' talk on the six levels of the Golden Rule. Do we humans need to learn love by degrees? As we progress, the expulsive power which comes from living a new level of truth and love transforms our primitive understanding. Which is why TUB tells us that as we ascend the personality scale, make our circles, we first learn to be loyal, then to love, then to be filial. I believe that true loyalty begins with eros, in the Platonic sense, the involvement in a spiritual passion of the whole person. There is a certain romantic beauty in the loyal devotion experienced between the Creator and the creature.




But Bonita, illicit sex is not a form of love. Sex means nothing to men, illicit or otherwise. I hate to see you fall for men’s lies at your age. Chick flicks are not reality. Jesus may not have said anything about sex, but it is implied in his teaching and way of life that he doesn’t approve of promiscuity. Page 1461 says, “He refused to accompany his friends to the public baths because of the promiscuity which there prevailed.” On page 1042 it says, “Never did the Salem teachers fully overcome the worship of Ishtar, the mother of Gods and the spirit of sex fertility. They did much to refine the worship of this goddess, but the Babylonians and their neighbors had never completely outgrown their disguised forms of sex worship. It had become a universal practice for all women to submit, at least once in early life, to the embrace of strangers; this was thought to be a devotion required by Ishtar and it was believed that fertility was largely dependant on this sex sacrifice.” This is exactly what is happening in our society today. We worship the Gods of Hollywood who promote sex worship. Young boys truly and sincerely believe that their manhood depends on them getting laid. And when boys get laid they worship the experience and hold it up as a role model for all boys to follow. Virginity is considered weird in our society today. So you see we are just like ancient Babylon before the Salem missionaries. Yes, I love the quote about supplanting one lesser desire with a higher. I would really love to know precisely how I am to go about loving a new way of living that goes opposite to my current desire. I just love how they never actually solve the problem for us. They just tell us that it can be done, but it’s up to us to figure it out how. Must be part of Paradise ascent problem solving. Although I will share with the forum that I have had evil desires removed when I sincerely prayed to my Father in Heaven to remove them. And when the desire was removed I was thrilled with the new found love for this new way of living. This prayer has saved me from falling victim to the Tiger Woods trap many times. The first time the Lord saved me from evil desire was when I was in Iraq and all the guys were separated from their wives and looking to hook up. There was an extremely hot married man whose wife had just had a baby at home and he was trying to start something with me. Everything in the Urantia Book flashed before my eyes. I really felt like there was no way out and that prayer was useless. But I prayed anyway. I asked God to save me from this married man. And the next thing I remember I had met a single guy who I ended up dating and this guy protected me from all the married men in Iraq. It was very miraculous. But I just remember how little faith I had in my prayers being answered.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#55 Rick Warren

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 04:29 AM

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...Mercy is the natural and inevitable offspring of goodness and love. The good nature of a loving Father could not possibly withhold the wise ministry of mercy to each member of every group of his universe children. Eternal justice and divine mercy together constitute what in human experience would be called fairness....


A Divine Counselor in Paper Two of The Urantia Book - p38




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#56 Bonita

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 03:51 PM

Thanks Jessica for sharing your concerns and your story. But. I say but! What you are talking about has nothing at all, nothing what so ever, to do with the topic of my post. Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well. I don't know. Sorry.

I'm talking about a love affair between God and a human being, not the love between two human beings, physical or otherwise.

And by the way, Jesus did not pass judgment on any kind of human love, physical or otherwise. Consider the woman taken in adultery who was to be stoned. Consider the the harlots he saved in Rome. Consider all the loose women he encountered and his attitude of forgiveness. Jesus did not go to the baths because he himself was uninterested in fulfilling his sexual desires, and I'm quite sure he had some, particularly during adolescence. But, he never condemned those who did fall victim to their sexual desires, not even EVE.

127.0.2 No adolescent youth who has lived or ever will live on this world or any other world has had or ever will have more weighty problems to resolve or more intricate difficulties to untangle. No youth of Urantia will ever be called upon to pass through more testing conflicts or more trying situations than Jesus himself endured during those strenuous years from fifteen to twenty.

127.0.3 Having thus tasted the actual experience of living these adolescent years on a world beset by evil and distraught by sin, the Son of Man became possessed of full knowledge about the life experience of the youth of all the realms of Nebadon, and thus forever he became the understanding refuge for the distressed and perplexed adolescents of all ages and on all worlds throughout the local universe.


Edited by Bonita, 22 December 2009 - 04:01 PM.


#57 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 07:21 PM

Thanks Jessica for sharing your concerns and your story. But. I say but! What you are talking about has nothing at all, nothing what so ever, to do with the topic of my post. Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well. I don't know. Sorry.

I'm talking about a love affair between God and a human being, not the love between two human beings, physical or otherwise.

And by the way, Jesus did not pass judgment on any kind of human love, physical or otherwise. Consider the woman taken in adultery who was to be stoned. Consider the the harlots he saved in Rome. Consider all the loose women he encountered and his attitude of forgiveness. Jesus did not go to the baths because he himself was uninterested in fulfilling his sexual desires, and I'm quite sure he had some, particularly during adolescence. But, he never condemned those who did fall victim to their sexual desires, not even EVE.




But if Jesus didn’t pass judgment on harlots then what was he forgiving them for? Ho Ho Ho Merry Christmas my Bonita!!! Maybe we are having a semantics issue with the idea of passing judgment and condemnation. We UB readers don’t believe in Hell so, of course, no one can be condemned in the Biblical definition. Also, as mortals we are not held to such high standards as that of an Eve. I’m sure you are right about us mortals having a lot more leeway than what the Bible says. You and I are engaged in speculation about what is right and what is wrong, but Eves actually know and are therefore held more strictly responsible.

“Eve’s disillusionment was truly pathetic (843).”

“What they had done was indeed evil, but they were never guilty of contempt for truth, neither did they knowingly enlist in rebellion against the righteous rule of the Universal Father (845).”

It’s just my personal opinion that the angel appeared to Jesus when he was 12 for a reason. Because that is the age when boys start becoming interested in the opposite sex. So for Jesus, the focus of his adolescence was on the angelic appearance and not on girls.

Edited by Midsoniter woman, 23 December 2009 - 07:24 PM.

"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#58 Bonita

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 12:15 AM

It may be as you say Jessica, but one thing is for sure, Creators do not pass judgment on their creatures. Jesus did not judge.

Creators never sit in judgment on their creatures; that is the exclusive function of creatures of high training and actual creature experience. p372:06


Perhaps we need to define forgiveness and its relationship to judgment?

Forgiveness is an act of God which accepts faith as the sole requirement for admission into the kingdom of heaven. (170.3.3) It is the love of God, whereas judgment is the law of God. Judgment "is vested in those who fully know the antecedents of all wrongdoing as well as its motivation." (133.1.2)

Forgiveness is nothing more than the consciousness of re-establishment of loyalty relations between the creature and the Creator. (89.10.6) No judgments are given. The idea of a judgmental God is primitive and the idea that forgiveness requires a judgment is also primitive. Jesus taught, "Judge not, that you be not judged." I doubt with my whole heart that he would do something he specifically told us not to do.

You judge only by the appearances of the flesh; you do not perceive the realities of the spirit. I judge no man, not even my archenemy. But if I should choose to judge, my judgment would be true and righteous, for I would judge not alone but in association with my Father, who sent me into the world, and who is the source of all true judgment. p1795:1 162:5.2


Edited by Bonita, 24 December 2009 - 12:23 AM.


#59 Rick Warren

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 05:02 AM

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"...God is love"; therefore his only personal attitude towards the affairs of the universe is always a reaction of divine affection. The Father loves us sufficiently to bestow his life upon us. "He makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust...."


A Divine Counselor in Paper Two of The Urantia Book - p38




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#60 Bonita

Bonita

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 10:43 AM

I've been doing some more thinking about what Jessica suggested, that God has to judge us before he can forgive us. And I'll be honest in saying that it distresses me to realize how deeply ingrained this attitude has become in our collective psyches. Even the physical presence of God himself on our little planet was insufficient to shake loose the hold this primitive fear based image of our loving Father has on mankind.

God's love overshadows his law. God the Father transcends God the Judge.(2.6.6) The mercy bank is well endowed such that every person has adequate credit to ensure God's love. The ascension plan requires that we learn to not take mercy for granted just as a human child needs to learn not to take the love of his/her parents for granted, but to love in return. What would a child learn from a judgmental parent? He/she would learn to judge. The child must learn to love and that can only be accomplished if love is the dominating attitude from the parent.

What so many fail to comprehend is the need to separate persons from their behavior. Behavior may be judged, but persons should not be judged. Persons are forgiven, not necessarily their behavior.

This same primitive attitude toward God is revealed in the new version of the old religion of nature worship, which transfers the power of judgment to the planet, Mother Earth. She, the Goddess, has become the new Judge who will punish us for our evil doing. If only the adherents of this religion would accept that even Mother Earth forgives, we might be a just a teeny, tiny bit further from spiritual regression on this world. It would be a step, albeit a tenuous one, towards the real truth.




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