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Raising Children on Urantia


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#1 Rick Warren

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Posted 17 June 2009 - 07:10 AM

Dear Forum Friends,

Putting extreme love into children produces the most remarkable adults. Imagine what Urantia would be if every parent were wise, able and proficient at doing the most important job on the planet.

Ever notice the difference in children (even pets!) who are brought up by deeply loving people? They seem to have an extra dimension of warmth, confidence, trust and fearlessness. It's beautiful. It is accomplished by the loving parent(s) spending much, much time nurturing the young child in the ways of living love. All this intensive time investment pays gigantic dividends as the child ages. The proper application of creative love reflects both the parent and the source of all love and social goodness---our Creator.

If parenting were to be viewed as the most important thing we can do, there might evolve schools of parenting, even a requirement for schooling and minimum standards of child rearing. If civilization is to progress during the coming times of population pressure, resource scarcity and territorial disputes, wise parenting has to become a greater factor for the basic unit of society--the family--to be healthy.

Raising children wisely and lovingly is not the only challenge for 21st century Urantia. Whether to have children, and how many, is now a relevant question for prospective parents and social leaders. For now, it appears, freedom of human reproduction is sacrosanct, save for China which decreed that one couple shall have only one child. A few years ago China's leadership said, "we are too many".

...You are sometimes shocked at the ravages of war, but you should recognize the necessity for producing large numbers of mortals so as to afford ample opportunity for social and moral development; with such planetary fertility there soon occurs the serious problem of overpopulation. Most of the inhabited worlds are small. Urantia is average, perhaps a trifle undersized. The optimum stabilization of national population enhances culture and prevents war. And it is a wise nation which knows when to cease growing.... P.908 - §1


Does all Urantia need a parenting badge, a rite of passage for procreation, a maximum number, to establish a land/man ratio? If so, how to go about creating these standards and regulations with minimum risk to the whole human family?

Good families are the key to a good and stable civilization. But laws alone cannot a good society make. The society must be made up of a majority of individuals who can be trusted, and with a minimum of regulation, or it fails. Good parents raise good, moral, responsible children, and it helps immeasurably if the environment in which they raise these children is supported by wise philosophical underpinnings and intelligent policies.

Do you see a way there?

Love to all, Rick

Edited by Rick Warren, 17 June 2009 - 07:14 AM.


#2 Michael

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 03:45 AM

Hi Rick,

Long time no see :-)
You’ve touched one of my favorite topics. Here are some thoughts, in short.

***

Every generation is given a chance to radically improve the state and future of civilization. This chance is called CHILDREN.

We are always just one step away from a paradise on Earth. We can make this step, if we rear, bring up, and educate our children in a radically new way.

Here are the guidelines:


PRESCHOOL

- Mothers-and-kids “pools”, or clubs, where children feel secure: socialization with family-figure support. This requires legislation to free interested moms to participate.

- Musical submersion: inner peace, exposure to beauty, assimilation of music as a universal language.

- Rhythmic poetry: development of the sense of rhythm, exposure to the beauty of language.

- Beauty meditations: creating of aesthetical environments and enjoying them.

- Early skills development: early detection of skills and their development.

- Proper nourishment: ban on soft drinks (artificial chemicals), colas (acidity), concentrated sugars (sugar attack), fast foods (saturated fat), red meet (hormones, antibiotics, other toxins). Vegetarian/see food diet as a health issue, a moral issue, and a spiritual issue.


SCHOOL

Follow-up from preschool: music, poetry, meditations, skills, diet.

Spirituality: development from day one. Spirit as the top level of the body-mind-spirit system.

Religion: natural development instead of impositions. Religion as a search for ideals.

Learning methods of acquiring data, not data itself.

Curiosity stimulation instead of ready answers. A motive is a tool of progress on the road of personal development.

Philosophy discussion clubs for teens. Teens really need to discuss their long-standing problems. Philosophy club design would offer a pattern of a self-governing body where teens could establish their own rules not conflicting with the “outer” society.

***
I would love to form a discussion group with those interested in the subject.
Michael Hanian

#3 Rick Warren

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 04:49 AM

Hey Michael,

Yes, long, long time. Did we first connect on urantiaT, around the turn of the century?

Godspeed on enlightening all Urantians, spiritually and nutritionally. Looks like it will take a while and many a love-saturated field worker to accomplish in full. But, to my amazement the local schools (in Texas!) are taking out junkfood machines!

Here's an open invitation to anyone interested in joining Michael's discussion group. You can contact him privately by Forum email. Or continue the conversation here if you like, as long as it relates to the UB.

But, please to anyone tempted to jump into the always passionate vegevoire/omnivoire debate, on this Forum, attack the issues as they relate to the teachings, and not each other, pleeease! :)

Welcome to the Forum, Rick

Edited by Rick Warren, 10 September 2009 - 04:50 AM.


#4 Michael

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 06:06 AM

I should have begun with the following quotes:

And whoso receives such a little one receives me. (P.1761 - §2)

But whosoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea. (P.1761 - §2)


I’m very much impressed by a certain harshness from this most gentle of men. There should be a reason for this warning.
Thinking about such a reason, I arrived at an assumption that children have much greater value and importance than we usually think.

And from that point I came to a hypothesis that they can actually change this world during one generation.

It can be argued that such a change would be revolutionary, not evolutionary. But if revolution is something imposed on the system, such a change would not feel like a revolutionary one. Rather it would seem that a bad practice is finally abolished and substituted with a good one, like quitting smoking on a national scale (US) hardly seems like an imposition (although smokers might disagree...).

What do you think, folks?

#5 Bonita

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:34 AM

Children do best in an atmosphere of respect with fair rules, consistent enforcement of the rules and sincere interest in their personalities. We should raise our children the way Jesus raised his family. Socialization within the family comes first.

I think you should start a Family School. Teach people how to have healthy families first.

#6 melody

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 03:17 PM

I would like *in* on this exploration, please.

I am Susan MeyersMelody, mother of 4, stepmom of 3, grandmama of 5 already ~ including 3 little girls all born this Spring and Summer, oh my.
Also, I've devoted nearly 30 years to the fascinating work/play of nurturing, teaching and being taught by preschoolers - preAdjustered ones I call them.

I'll do my best to read all related posts and to comment and contribute when I've something worthwhile to offer.

fondly,
Susan


#7 Bill Martin

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Posted 10 September 2009 - 09:08 PM

Melody and Michael,

I am thrilled to have your input here. Welcome. The Urantia Book has so much to teach us about soul nutrition and family culture. Jesus example of "his time not coming" until all the boys had jobs (His patient love of Jude) and all the girls were situated speaks volumes. This was Jesus revealing Man to God.

We need much more Urantia Book oriented and life-experience related discussion here. The family has suffered so terribly over the decades of my life with all the countervailing strains of the ever rapidly increasing pace of life. The basic human institution through which civilization is maintained and fostered is under attack on nearly every front.

The unhealthy focus on self-gratifcation, the "ME" obsession and the missing emphasis on an "atmosphere of respect with fair rules, consistent enforcement of the rules," as Bonita points out, I believe threaten the very fabric of our society.
942-3 And this overindulgence, this widely spread pleasure mania, now constitutes the greatest threat that has ever been leveled at the social evolutionary institution of family life, the home.


888-2 The amazing stability and persistence of Chinese culture is a consequence of the paramount position accorded the family, for civilization is directly dependent on the effective functioning of the family; and in China the family attained a social importance, even a religious significance, approached by few other people.



Anyway,

NICE to have your contributions.


Bill Martin
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#8 Bonita

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 10:50 AM

We need much more Urantia Book oriented and life-experience related discussion here. The family has suffered so terribly over the decades of my life with all the countervailing strains of the ever rapidly increasing pace of life. The basic human institution through which civilization is maintained and fostered is under attack on nearly every front.

The unhealthy focus on self-gratifcation, the "ME" obsession and the missing emphasis on an "atmosphere of respect with fair rules, consistent enforcement of the rules," as Bonita points out, I believe threaten the very fabric of our society.
942-3 And this overindulgence, this widely spread pleasure mania, now constitutes the greatest threat that has ever been leveled at the social evolutionary institution of family life, the home.


Hey Bill,

How much of this phenomenon do you accredit to the "causes" of the 70's? The bra-burning, mind-tripping, free-sex liberation movement done in the name of world peace? I think it's our generation which has destroyed the family with no-fault, free love. I'm wondering, if TUB had been written in the 70's instead of the 30's, maybe the revelators would have put in a statement about indiscriminate love like they did about indiscriminate kindness.

p1580:8 140:8.13 He made it clear that indiscriminate kindness may be blamed for many social evils.



#9 Michael

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 12:11 PM

Dear friends,

It’s great to see this topic gaining momentum. Interestingly, when I published the same ideas on Live Journal, I got zero response.

Melody, thanks for joining in. You seem to have abundant experience with 2 generations of kids. And what a great term – the preAdjustered!

Bill, you have quoted the stability of the Chinese culture. I have always admired this great civilization of the Orient. Goes without saying, one of the reasons for such admiration is the value of the family – and the family values.

Getting back to the quotes in my previous post, I’d love to have your input of the Master’s words, especially on the second quote:

But whosoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea. (P.1761 - §2)

Do we practice it consciously? If yes, how?
Do we do unconsciously? If yes, how?


Michael

#10 Bonita

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 01:41 PM

I think it would be wise to read the entire quote in context. The meaning of the quote takes on a more profound meaning which goes far beyond just the treatment of children.

158:8.1 Entering Capernaum at twilight, they went by unfrequented thoroughfares directly to the home of Simon Peter for their evening meal. While David Zebedee made ready to take them across the lake, they lingered at Simon's house, and Jesus, looking up at Peter and the other apostles, asked: "As you walked along together this afternoon, what was it that you talked about so earnestly among yourselves?" The apostles held their peace because many of them had continued the discussion begun at Mount Hermon as to what positions they were to have in the coming kingdom; who should be the greatest, and so on. Jesus, knowing what it was that occupied their thoughts that day, beckoned to one of Peter's little ones and, setting the child down among them, said: "Verily, verily, I say to you, except you turn about and become more like this child, you will make little progress in the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever shall humble himself and become as this little one, the same shall become greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso receives such a little one receives me. And they who receive me receive also Him who sent me. If you would be first in the kingdom, seek to minister these good truths to your brethren in the flesh. But whosoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea. If the things you do with your hands, or the things you see with your eyes give offense in the progress of the kingdom, sacrifice these cherished idols, for it is better to enter the kingdom minus many of the beloved things of life rather than to cling to these idols and find yourself shut out of the kingdom. But most of all, see that you despise not one of these little ones, for their angels do always behold the faces of the heavenly hosts."



#11 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:06 PM

Hey Bill,

How much of this phenomenon do you accredit to the "causes" of the 70's? The bra-burning, mind-tripping, free-sex liberation movement done in the name of world peace? I think it's our generation which has destroyed the family with no-fault, free love. I'm wondering, if TUB had been written in the 70's instead of the 30's, maybe the revelators would have put in a statement about indiscriminate love like they did about indiscriminate kindness.


I think that this is the reason why children like me were attacked for fitting our stereotype. I did everything feminists hate. I played with dolls. I wore dresses. I was quiet and shy. I hated sports. I was bad at math. And I was constantly besieged with insults from feminist society that kept telling me I was brainwashed for acting that way. Now I hear they are drugging little boys with Ritilin because they fit their stereotype of aggressive and sporty.

In regards to banning red meat for children: No. I tried vegetarianism about 10 years ago or so and I almost died. Even though I was eating protein, beans, lentils and such with every meal and taking B12, it just wasn’t enough. I lost all feeling in my legs and could barely walk. I had to start eating meat again. I say ban the steroids and garbage, but I need meat. I’ve heard that vegan babies die too. But I’m all for organic meat and I never eat junk food myself. I do all shopping at Whole Foods practically. I agree that feeding children junk food should be illegal. There are plenty of healthy treats out there.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#12 Bill Martin

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 04:54 PM

HEY MW!

I want everybody to know, as Moderator Rick Warren mentioned earlier, that notions of personal health and nutrition are just that-personal. If you can substantiate ANY personal belief by reference to the Urantia Papers, we will allow it. This is a Forum for the study of the Urantia Book . That said, I am posting the Master's statements that I know on this subject.


P.1404 - §5 On this visit occurred one of those periodic outbreaks of rebellion against tradition--the expression of resentment for those ceremonial practices which Jesus deemed misrepresentative of his Father in heaven. Not knowing Jesus was coming, Lazarus had arranged to celebrate the Passover with friends in an adjoining village down the Jericho road. Jesus now proposed that they celebrate the feast where they were, at Lazarus's house. "But," said Lazarus, "we have no paschal lamb." And then Jesus entered upon a prolonged and convincing dissertation to the effect that the Father in heaven was not truly concerned with such childlike and meaningless rituals. After solemn and fervent prayer they rose, and Jesus said: "Let the childlike and darkened minds of my people serve their God as Moses directed; it is better that they do, but let us who have seen the light of life no longer approach our Father by the darkness of death. Let us be free in the knowledge of the truth of our Father's eternal love."
P.1404 - §6 That evening about twilight these four sat down and partook of the first Passover feast ever to be celebrated by devout Jews without the paschal lamb. The unleavened bread and the wine had been made ready for this Passover, and these emblems, which Jesus termed "the bread of life" and "the water of life," he served to his companions, and they ate in solemn conformity with the teachings just imparted. It was his custom to engage in this sacramental ritual whenever he paid subsequent visits to Bethany. When he returned home, he told all this to his mother. She was shocked at first but came gradually to see his viewpoint; nevertheless, she was greatly relieved when Jesus assured her that he did not intend to introduce this new idea of the Passover in their family. At home with the children he continued, year by year, to eat the Passover "according to the law of Moses
."

I believe this shows Jesus was opposed to the sacrifice. He felt God was opposed to the spectacle of this needless slaugter as supposedly pleasing in the eyes of the Lord and established the "bloodless Passover" first with his friend Lazarus and later with the Apostles and others. With his family he continued having the Paschal lamb.

The whole ritual was an improvement, admittedly, over the sacrifice of a first-born son, but Jesus instituted what would later become the "remembrance supper" which urantia book readers practice to this day as is found on page 1941.



Jesus' was disgusted with the meaningless rituals of the religions of authority for he knew that contrary to bringing worshippers closer to God, the practice of the ritual became the meaning and the object of the ritual (the lamb) often supplanted the communion with the Creator. This obsession with "THE BLOOD" continues in many churches today.

Not long ago, I took communion in my Mom's church. When our turn came, the helper gave me the "host" and said "Body of Christ." I quite naturally said, "Bread of Life." The helper immediatly repeated "Body of Christ." I reached out through my eyes and smiled lovingly at her soul. When i was given the "wine," the helper said "Blood of Christ." My immediate reply was "Water of life." The wine helper quickly reaffirmed-"Blood of Christ." All I could do was smile...

1404-6 (The unleavened bread and the wine had been made ready for this Passover, and these emblems, which Jesus termed "the bread of life" and "the water of life," he served to his companions, and they ate in solemn conformity with the teachings just imparted.)




.1713 - §0 "Are you also hard of understanding? Know you not that every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted shall be rooted up? Turn now your attention to those who would know the truth. You cannot compel men to love the truth. Many of these teachers are blind guides. And you know that, if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the pit. But hearken while I tell you the truth concerning those things which morally defile and spiritually contaminate men. I declare it is not that which enters the body by the mouth or gains access to the mind through the eyes and ears, that defiles the man. Man is only defiled by that evil which may originate within the heart, and which finds expression in the words and deeds of such unholy persons. Do you not know it is from the heart that there come forth evil thoughts, wicked projects of murder, theft, and adulteries, together with jealousy, pride, anger, revenge, railings, and false witness? And it is just such things that defile men, and not that they eat bread with ceremonially unclean hands."


Being somewhat rotund, this gives me some relief as I strive mightily keep a clean mind!
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#13 Bill Martin

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 05:39 PM

QUOTE (Bonita @ Sep 11 2009, 10:50 AM)
Hey Bill,

How much of this phenomenon do you accredit to the "causes" of the 70's? The bra-burning, mind-tripping, free-sex liberation movement done in the name of world peace? I think it's our generation which has destroyed the family with no-fault, free love. I'm wondering, if TUB had been written in the 70's instead of the 30's, maybe the revelators would have put in a statement about indiscriminate love like they did about indiscriminate kindness.
********************************************************************************
*********************


Dear Bonita,

I was right in the midst of all that cultural revolution. Before it started, as a young high schooler,I was spending alot of my free time working in a settlement house on Chicago's west side. At thirteen, I marched down State street with MLK. In my late teens and early twenties, and later, the substantial efforts of my Father, with my help, were intrumental in breaking the color barrier for minorities getting into the high-paying unionized construction jobs in the Midwest. Periodically since, all through my working liife, i was excoriated by the rascist majority in my union.

All during those early years, each time i went on a "mind-tripping," as you called them, I was searching for God, for reality and meaning. Yes there was much "free" (is anything free?) love, freedom, liberation, rebellion and revolution. Yet I always seemed to come "back to center." I continued reading and reading the Urantia Book and attending First Urantia Society study groups every Sunday, when I could.

My Dad ,God love him, was a "ramblin man" and no good role model-certainly not a "family man" and most of the Reality about life and my growth as a parent came from reading the FER and learning from my mistakes.

I did some bad things in my life, even after reading the Urantia Book a couple of times.

The generation of my age-"baby boomers" were all about "ME." Self-gratification, do whatever you like "as long as you don't hurt anybody." But it seems somebody always gets hurt when you "do whatever you want." I learned self is something I needed to subdue, it just got in the way of my communion with my creator.

I appreciate the experiences i have had in my life, good and bad. I take something good from them all and transmute them
through my soul which somehow filters out what has survival value. Now, i seek more light and God's will. I am glad i survived the life I have had. I wish I was as good a parent in my twenties as i have become. My family is growing in love and understanding for eachother as we age and we are now living together and helping my Mother have a nice "graduation."

Life is demanding, people are what count
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#14 Bonita

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Posted 11 September 2009 - 09:56 PM

I believe this shows Jesus was opposed to the sacrifice. He felt God was opposed to the spectacle of this needless slaugter as supposedly pleasing in the eyes of the Lord and established the "bloodless Passover" first with his friend Lazarus and later with the Apostles and others. With his family he continued having the Paschal lamb.


I'm not sure you are implying this or not, but the fact that Jesus was opposed to sacrifice has nothing at all to do with eating meat, bloody or not. We know he ate fish and dairy products as well as meat. Jesus was twenty before he instituted the first bloodless Passover in all of Jewry (127:6.7). Even John the Baptist ate mutton (135.3.1).

TUB explains that we all began as meat eaters. Adam and Eve introduced vegetarianism, but within a few generations, their offspring ate a mixed diet. I think that whether or not we should eat meat entirely depends upon our racial inheritance. MW, I guess you and I have some primitive stock in us. I failed vegetarianism too, getting very thin with scads of cavities and bruises.

52.3.8 Primitive man is for the most part carnivorous; the Material Sons and Daughters do not eat meat, but their offspring within a few generations usually gravitate to the omnivorous level, although whole groups of their descendants sometimes remain nonflesh eaters. This double origin of the post-Adamic races explains how such blended human stocks exhibit anatomic vestiges belonging to both the herbivorous and carnivorous animal groups.



#15 Michael

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 03:38 AM

Bonita,

We have somewhat deviated from the actual topic, Raising Children on Urantia.

I would love to articulate my dietary arguments in a personal email. If you agree, I will send you a personal message.

Michael

#16 melody

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 03:50 AM

Getting back to the quotes in my previous post, I’d love to have your input of the Master’s words, especially on the second quote:

But whosoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea. (P.1761 - §2)

Do we practice it consciously? If yes, how?
Do we do unconsciously? If yes, how?


Michael


G'mornin', Michael, all:

I will admit to feeling pain for self and others when reading and rereading this quote, in full context or otherwise. Fast forwarding through guilt and shame (as I believe it is best to use these emotions primarily as a springboard toward more creative actions) for the times I may have caused one of Our Father's children to stumble I become better at consciously choosing to encourage each one's next step, even tho only a baby step at times, along our path toward perfection.

Perhaps it is our intention, focused by ample time in prayer and especially worship, that is conscious thereby allowing our resultant loving actions to be given freely, one could say "unconsciously", to those in our charge.

Yes, I've had more experience than most with the young child. Mostly this means I've had more opportunity to screw up and therefore, through God's Grace, to learn from my shortcomings. Also, I feel tremendous responsibility to share what I've learned with young families faced with the, oftentimes near numbing, challenges of striving and thriving in this time and space.

The nurture of young children in our culture is so often in the hands of ones other than the parents. Two year olds are in a ratio of 11 to 1 in a typical day care setting. The ramifications of this are mind boggling, sometimes heart wrenching, at close range. Who knows, perhaps the seeming downside of our unemployment woes may be a blessing in disguise to "force" the responsibilities of parenting back to those with whom it belongs? How to reach and influence these young families in an even broader way than as we pass by (tho this has extreme value, I am experientially sure) is a wonderful challenge we can, mayhaps must, offer our time, expertise and wisdom to even long after our nests are technically empty.

Thanks all for nourishing food for thought (vegetarian and otherwise),
susan

Edited by melody, 12 September 2009 - 10:24 AM.


#17 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 09:46 AM

Hello Friends,

Here is some more food for thought from the UB and Bible:


"The kingdom of God is not meat and drink but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit." And throughout every trial and in the presence of every hardship, spirit-born souls are sustained by that hope which transcends all fear because the love of God is shed abroad in all hearts by the presence of the divine Spirit. (383)


Jesus is the bread of life and the water thereof and much more.

What do any of you suppose parents would do to a child to cause it to stumble? Stumble in what sense? Spiritually stumble? Morally stumble? This is a very strong statement: "But whosoever causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hanged about his neck and he were cast into the sea. "(P.1761 - §2) I do not know.

Cheers,
Meredith

#18 Bonita

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 09:59 AM

Bonita,

We have somewhat deviated from the actual topic, Raising Children on Urantia.

I would love to articulate my dietary arguments in a personal email. If you agree, I will send you a personal message.


Michael, I'm sorry.

I was responding to your post about red meat:

- Proper nourishment: ban on soft drinks (artificial chemicals), colas (acidity), concentrated sugars (sugar attack), fast foods (saturated fat), red meet (hormones, antibiotics, other toxins). Vegetarian/see food diet as a health issue, a moral issue, and a spiritual issue.


By your statement, you have made diet a moral and spiritual issue. I am disagreeing with you and using UB quotes to back up my opinion. Red meat is essential for some people's diet and I think it is immoral to suggest that people who eat red meat are immoral or unspiritual.

I think you should drop that issue from your education agenda because it is misinformation based on TUB. It would be better for you to put a millstone around your neck and jump into the sea then to let any of the little ones stumble with misinformation.

By making food a moral and spiritual issue you are doing the same thing the Sadducees did with their strict interpretation of the Jewish food laws, making the eating of certain foods a sin against God. Or, like the pope who made it a sin to eat meat on Friday because the fishing trade in Italy was failing at the time. We know this is all nonsense. Jesus knew it was nonsense and said so.

153.3.5 Jesus then directed his remarks to all present. He said: “But hearken to me all of you. It is not that which enters into the mouth that spiritually defiles the man, but rather that which proceeds out of the mouth and from the heart.”


People today who try to make the eating of certain foods a sin are committing the same error. All they are doing is producing guilt which cripples the spirit. It is okay to teach about how food is obtained, processed and packaged; how food should be handled and stored; how food is metabolized in the body; how to prepare food in a safe way; how to grow your own food; food requirements of the body; and, the effects on the body of food chemicals, (including drugs and alcohol). But then, allow children (and adults) the freedom of choice based upon their education. Do not teach children that they are immoral or unspiritual for eating what they finally choose. That's just plain wrong.

(Besides, by prohibition you are only encouraging a black market for sugar and bloody meat. We've been here before and still haven't learned how it works. Lead by example not by coercion. Banning food is sententious.)

Listen Michael, you made this issue part of your presentation and asked for comments. I have given them. If my ideas are different than yours, then that only makes for a heartier discussion, no? And, please do not PM me about enforcing food laws because it is the moral thing to do. TUB teaches us that our "highest moral ideals are not necessarily synonymous with the will of God." (p1133:03)

#19 Bill Martin

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 10:49 AM

Dear everybody,

The quote about "causing the little one's to stumble" may be about other things, but it is most assuredly about child abuse, sexual and otherwise.

Bill Martin
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#20 Bonita

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 11:18 AM

Dear everybody,

The quote about "causing the little one's to stumble" may be about other things, but it is most assuredly about child abuse, sexual and otherwise.

Bill Martin


Yes, and we are all children in God's eyes. Abuse of another person, of any kind, body, mind or spirit, is reprehensible.




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