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A Look Into Other Religious Material


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#121 Bonita

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 08:53 AM

The world is filled with hungry souls who famish in the very presence of the bread of life; men die searching for the very God who lives within them. 1766:04

#122 Bill Martin

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 02:09 PM

P.1819 - §2 "You who would be the undershepherds of my Father's flocks must not only be worthy leaders, but you must also feed the flock with good food; you are not true shepherds unless you lead your flocks into green pastures and beside still waters."
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#123 Guest_Broweman_*

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 04:40 PM

Michael had an omniscient God's-eye understanding of Urantia. He knew the collective receptivity capacity of the different groups as studied and presented to him by his Bright and Morning Star plus the Elder Brother's mission statement and advice. He knew all beforehand and chose to go with the "bare-bones" simple concept of the Gospel of the Kingdom. We are all children of ONE FATHER.

Yet even this simple-to-grasp concept was washed aside in the emotional flood-tide occasioned by his resurrection and left to lie dormant for thousands of years. Yet this very simple idea has the power to bring unity to all religions. We are told that this gospel will one day rule this world;

The Fifth Epochal Revelation makes few concessions to the synthetic human viewpoint, instead starting at the center and source of all reality and proceeding outward from the Paradise Area and the Central Shining to the myriad evolutionary universes of time and space.

We conjecture here about this or that fact, corellations from one religion or belief system to statements in the papers, and sometimes the simple truths elude our sight like will-o-the-wisps. Love IS the desire to do good to others and all women are my sisters and all men are my brothers. My treatment and relationship to them should begin with this love and build from that reality. This is the simplicity of the Master's message that can only be had by the living, this is the sustenance that feeds the soul growth and unifies the personality to be like God because God is LOVE.

A lifetime of diligent study of the Urantia Book should prepare you to treat with all sorts of strange philosophies and isms, all the while on the lookout for that grain of truth in an other's thoughts and words that can be amplified upon and expanded to crowd out the shadow, all the while filling up the space separating you with the light of love.

Ultimately we are transformed and uplifted by service to our fellows. Giving makes you greater.

The greatest gift I know of to give is the truth that God is a loving Father and as his children we can through simple faith become more and more like Him.


This is THE TRUTH that will bring some order to this confused corner of a magnificent and loving universe.


Well said Bill,
I wish I could write like you, Benet, and many others. Thanks for re-enlighting us (me) to the simple truth of the master's gospel.

David Tadpole

#124 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 05:34 PM

Bill, you are right about the concept of personal responsibility. Those people should have had the self-esteem to stand up for themselves and say they had to get out. Sometimes fainting can happen unexpectedly, but most of the time people know they are feeling faint ahead of time. I’ve been in wonderful steam rooms too at some really nice spas. The steam opens your pores and does sweat out toxins.

A steam room is not the same thing as sitting next to a campfire covered with tarp. It’s an outdoor campfire covered with tarp where a lot of people sit inside. Water is pored over the hot stones in the fire and needless to say, it gets much hotter than the steam room at a spa.

And the idea of purging demons is just magic and superstition. It belongs under Sin, Sacrifice, and Atonement.

Bonita is right about there being so many hungry souls out there searching desperately for the truth. It’s sad that people have to die searching.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#125 rock

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 03:25 PM

So we sit in there for a while until it got so hot and steamy that I felt like I was going to die. I told my mom we should leave now because it was literally too hot to bear. I wanted to leave quietly without saying anything because I’m a shy one. But my mom is the opposite. She yelled out, “We want to LEAVE!” I was so embarrassed. They got out of our way and let us leave. I don’t know how those people could have withstood that kind of heat.

I have some personal experience about a Finnish sauna. I think that +120°C is very close to optimal, because there is not much need to throw water on the rocks, so the absolute humidity of air stays low and air is easy to breath.

#126 Old Soul

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 10:53 AM

One note, the founder of the Mormon Church claimed to of have seen God, you should know by now "No man Sees God and lives."

In brotherly love ...Jess


169.4.2 Jesus never gave his apostles a systematic lesson concerning the personality and attributes of the Father in heaven. He never asked men to believe in his Father; he took it for granted they did. Jesus never belittled himself by offering arguments in proof of the reality of the Father. His teaching regarding the Father all centered in the declaration that he and the Father are one; that he who has seen the Son has seen the Father; that the Father, like the Son, knows all things; that only the Son really knows the Father, and he to whom the Son will reveal him; that he who knows the Son knows also the Father; and that the Father sent him into the world to reveal their combined natures and to show forth their conjoint work. He never made other pronouncements about his Father except to the woman of Samaria at Jacob’s well, when he declared, “God is spirit.”

6.2.2 The Eternal Son is the eternal Word of God. He is wholly like the Father; in fact, the Eternal Son is God the Father personally manifest to the universe of universes. And thus it was and is and forever will be true of the Eternal Son and of all the co-ordinate Creator Sons: “He who has seen the Son has seen the Father.”


Is it possible that this Mormon Founder saw Michael?
5:1.8 The Father desires all his creatures to be in personal communion with him.

#127 Bonita

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:53 PM

I think jessemilio was referring to this quote:

1.5.5 Mortal man simply cannot see God until he achieves completed spirit transformation and actually attains Paradise.



But it is possible to see God with "spiritual eyes" that I referred to in the thread "Near Death Experiences". All that is necessary is a spiritualized mind, a pure heart and true spiritual insight. I don't think it is possible for any of us to be sure whether Joseph Smith had any of these or not. We're supposed to judge by the fruits and only knowing him second hand and seeing the fruits of his labors second hand, we can probably never be sure.

1.5.5 But it is not necessary to see God with the eyes of the flesh in order to discern him by the faith-vision of the spiritualized mind.

140.3.6 “Happy are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

140.5.13 To see God — by faith — means to acquire true spiritual insight.



Did he see Michael? I guess it's possible. A lot of religious leaders have seen visions and TUB tells us that some of them were legitimate. Paul claimed to have seen Jesus and TUB tells us that the Damascus road incident was real.

100.5.3 It should be made clear that professions of loyalty to the supreme ideals — the psychic, emotional, and spiritual awareness of God-consciousness — may be a natural and gradual growth or may sometimes be experienced at certain junctures, as in a crisis. The Apostle Paul experienced just such a sudden and spectacular conversion that eventful day on the Damascus road. Gautama Siddhartha had a similar experience the night he sat alone and sought to penetrate the mystery of final truth. Many others have had like experiences, and many true believers have progressed in the spirit without sudden conversion.

196.2.1 The Apostle Paul later on transformed this new gospel into Christianity, a religion embodying his own theologic views and portraying his own personal experience with the Jesus of the Damascus road.



#128 Rick Warren

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 05:26 PM

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Not sure if I actually see Father when I do manage a deep worship, but one of the most fascinating events in the Jesus incarnation, was when the Father spoke out loud, at the baptism. God can be heard by the mortal, apparently.

For me, the littilest creature, God is simply too big to actually encompass visually. I'm going to have to be sooooooo much bigger to come face to face with just the personality part of God, much less all his endless aspects. So, every time I "see" God, he's different...duh.

I can't help thinking of seeing Him as the orginal person. But that has its own limits--everything does. God is wide open.


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#129 Bonita

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 09:17 PM

For me, the littilest creature, God is simply too big to actually encompass visually. I'm going to have to be sooooooo much bigger to come face to face with just the personality part of God, much less all his endless aspects.


But God lives inside of you, the littlest creature. Bigness or littleness has nothing to do with it. I think it's about being humble which is littleness of ego control. And the personality part of God we know as Jesus, the Spirit of Truth. He's there for you. Then you have the personality circuit. Opportunities abound.

#130 Rick Warren

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 03:33 AM

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Yes, yes, but only a fragment of God lives inside, Bonita. This you know, and if you think of bigness and littleness as spiritual capacity, it has everything to do with actually seeing Father. Some day, presumably, we ascenders will have the capacity for perfection of vision, but not today. Today we have to depend on other senses.


P.25 - §2 Said the seer of old: "Lo, he goes by me, and I see him not; he passes on also, but I perceive him not." We may constantly observe the works of God, we may be highly conscious of the material evidences of his majestic conduct, but rarely may we gaze upon the visible manifestation of his divinity, not even to behold the presence of his delegated spirit of human indwelling.

P.25 - §3 The Universal Father is not invisible because he is hiding himself away from the lowly creatures of materialistic handicaps and limited spiritual endowments. The situation rather is: "You cannot see my face, for no mortal can see me and live." No material man could behold the spirit God and preserve his mortal existence. The glory and the spiritual brilliance of the divine personality presence is impossible of approach by the lower groups of spirit beings or by any order of material personalities. The spiritual luminosity of the Father's personal presence is a "light which no mortal man can approach; which no material creature has seen or can see." But it is not necessary to see God with the eyes of the flesh in order to discern him by the faith-vision of the spiritualized mind.

P.27 - §3 Do not permit the magnitude of God, his infinity, either to obscure or eclipse his personality. "He who planned the ear, shall he not hear? He who formed the eye, shall he not see?" The Universal Father is the acme of divine personality; he is the origin and destiny of personality throughout all creation. God is both infinite and personal; he is an infinite personality. The Father is truly a personality, notwithstanding that the infinity of his person places him forever beyond the full comprehension of material and finite beings.

P.28 - §1 Even though material mortals cannot see the person of God, they should rejoice in the assurance that he is a person; by faith accept the truth which portrays that the Universal Father so loved the world as to provide for the eternal spiritual progression of its lowly inhabitants; that he "delights in his children." God is lacking in none of those superhuman and divine attributes which constitute a perfect, eternal, loving, and infinite Creator personality.



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#131 Bonita

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 08:05 AM

Yes, yes, but only a fragment of God lives inside, Bonita. This you know, and if you think of bigness and littleness as spiritual capacity, it has everything to do with actually seeing Father. Some day, presumably, we ascenders will have the capacity for perfection of vision, but not today. Today we have to depend on other senses.


Rick,

Far be it from me to allow you to deny yourself the pleasure of knowing, feeling, sensing and spiritually seeing your God. If you don't think it's possible, then it certainly will not happen. If you want to wait for perfection of vision before you see God, it is your choice. But PERFECT vision will not be just magically granted to you, it evolves. Allow me to inspire you to begin evolving today.

The Thought Adjuster is our personality potential and he is a fragment of God's full potential given to us to experience now and through eternity. The Adjuster will show us all of God when the time is ripe to bring each potential to reality. This continues even after we fuse and well into eternity. What is amazing is that all we have to do is cooperate and have faith. But it begins here and now, not at some future time. When it comes to evolving personalities, potential always trumps what is actual. Either we allow that potential to become reality, or we don't. But if we do, we will be able to see with spiritual eyes. TUB tells us this happens, and I'm here to testify that TUB speaks the truth.

102:5.1 And in the time universes, potential is always supreme over the actual. In the evolving cosmos the potential is what is to be, and what is to be is the unfolding of the purposive mandates of Deity.

0.3.12 7. The potential personality of an evolutionary moral being or of any other moral being is centered in the personality of the Universal Father.

109.5.2 It is sometimes possible to have the mind illuminated, to hear the divine voice that continually speaks within you, so that you may become partially conscious of the wisdom, truth, goodness, and beauty of the potential personality constantly indwelling you.



I'm not here to argue this point or to try to convince you of its truth or validity. My only purpose is to be an overflowing source of inspiration.

195.9.8 Descriptive words of things beautiful cannot thrill like the sight thereof, neither can creedal words inspire men’s souls like the experience of knowing the presence of God.

195.10.1 Jesus’ disciples should be more than conquerors, even overflowing sources of inspiration and enhanced living to all men. Religion is only an exalted humanism until it is made divine by the discovery of the reality of the presence of God in personal experience.



It's all about allowing the mind to be spiritualized. That is what the Adjuster does. The real you is not the thoughts in your head or the ideas derived from the senses of the body. The real you is the one watching and adjusting all the thoughts and ideas in your head with spiritual eyes. Get to know that person. It's called spiritual insight. When you allow the real you to view the world, all things are new because they are seen through the lens of the soul with a filter of truth, beauty and goodness. If you practice this type of vision, you will see God with all of your evolving spiritual senses and you won't have to wait until some time in eternity. Trust me.

p1104:6 101:1.3 The divine spirit makes contact with mortal man, not by feelings or emotions, but in the realm of the highest and most spiritualized thinking. It is your thoughts, not your feelings, that lead you Godward. The divine nature may be perceived only with the eyes of the mind. But the mind that really discerns God, hears the indwelling Adjuster, is the pure mind. "Without holiness no man may see the Lord." All such inner and spiritual communion is termed spiritual insight. Such religious experiences result from the impress made upon the mind of man by the combined operations of the Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth as they function amid and upon the ideas, ideals, insights, and spirit strivings of the evolving sons of God.

110.7.6 The chief difficulty you experience in contacting with your Adjusters consists in this very inherent material nature. So few mortals are real thinkers; you do not spiritually develop and discipline your minds to the point of favorable liaison with the divine Adjusters.

111.7.2 You could be so comforted and inspired, so enthralled and intrigued, if you would only allow the Adjuster constantly to bring forth the pictures of the real motive, the final aim, and the eternal purpose of all this difficult, uphill struggle with the commonplace problems of your present material world.

111.7.3 Why do you not encourage the heavenly helper to cheer you with the clear vision of the eternal outlook of universal life as you gaze in perplexity at the problems of the passing hour? Why do you refuse to be enlightened and inspired by the universe viewpoint while you toil amidst the handicaps of time and flounder in the maze of uncertainties which beset your mortal life journey? Why not allow the Adjuster to spiritualize your thinking, even though your feet must tread the material paths of earthly endeavor?

132.3.5 But truth can never become man’s possession without the exercise of faith. This is true because man’s thoughts, wisdom, ethics, and ideals will never rise higher than his faith, his sublime hope. And all such true faith is predicated on profound reflection, sincere self-criticism, and uncompromising moral consciousness. Faith is the inspiration of the spiritized creative imagination.



#132 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 09:07 AM

I think jessemilio was referring to this quote:

Did he see Michael? I guess it's possible. A lot of religious leaders have seen visions and TUB tells us that some of them were legitimate. Paul claimed to have seen Jesus and TUB tells us that the Damascus road incident was real.

100.5.3 It should be made clear that professions of loyalty to the supreme ideals — the psychic, emotional, and spiritual awareness of God-consciousness — may be a natural and gradual growth or may sometimes be experienced at certain junctures, as in a crisis. The Apostle Paul experienced just such a sudden and spectacular conversion that eventful day on the Damascus road. Gautama Siddhartha had a similar experience the night he sat alone and sought to penetrate the mystery of final truth. Many others have had like experiences, and many true believers have progressed in the spirit without sudden conversion.

196.2.1 The Apostle Paul later on transformed this new gospel into Christianity, a religion embodying his own theologic views and portraying his own personal experience with the Jesus of the Damascus road.




I don't believe Joseph Smith saw anyone even though it's possible. I believe he found buried tablets and translated them into English. The buried tablets were probably written in Hebrew because the people who wrote them sailed to America from Israel. You don't have to see God in order to translate Hebrew to English. You don't have to see God to find ancient buried tablets. Any farmer digging around could have found them. These Israelites were trying to escape the carnage going on in Jerusalem. It took them three years to reach the Atlantic coast and build boats. The tablets contained a recital of a visit by Jesus to America that sounds eerily similar to the Urantia Book description of a morontia appearance as it happened just after his crucifixion. The idea of a morontia Jesus appearance in America isn't far fetched at all. He made so many appearances to so many people who didn't even know him in the flesh. Jesus said that he would also visit other lost sheep from the House of Israel. I can't blame Joseph Smith for getting excited about his find. It might have messed with his head.

2 Nephi 29:3 says, “…A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.”

2 Nephi 29:8 says,“Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? …I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.”

2 Nephi 29:12 says, “For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.”

Edited by Midsoniter woman, 08 July 2010 - 09:07 AM.

"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#133 Rick Warren

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 10:18 AM

Rick,

Far be it from me to allow you to deny yourself the pleasure of knowing, feeling, sensing and spiritually seeing your God. If you don't think it's possible, then it certainly will not happen....


Oh, it's possible. I know for the same reasons as you. But can there ever be uniformity of spiritual experience in such discretely, uniquely personal, creatures as humble and largely ignorant humans like you and me? Maybe I have it wrong by not locking into one concept, one vision of Father. But I don't see it that way because I believe He is beyond and above conceptualizing or experiencing in fullness, until the day we meet. Then repletion awaits...

Even Paradise attainers have to have help finding and dicerning the person of God. That doesn't preclude my "seeing" an image that reflects my understanding of this omni-present being of ultimate and absolute love and reality. And I think he likes it when sneak up and try to tackle-hug him.


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#134 Bonita

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 11:06 AM

Maybe I have it wrong by not locking into one concept, one vision of Father.


Who said anything about locking one's vision of the Father into one concept? Either you experience his presence within you or you don't. But you can conceptualize that experience any way you like. It's called spiritual freedom and religious liberty.

179.5.4 He did not wish to destroy the individual’s concept of divine communion by establishing a precise form; neither did he desire to limit the believer’s spiritual imagination by formally cramping it. He rather sought to set man’s reborn soul free upon the joyous wings of a new and living spiritual liberty.



#135 Rick Warren

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 04:12 PM

...He rather sought to set man’s reborn soul free upon the joyous wings of a new and living spiritual liberty....


Exactly!



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#136 Bill Martin

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:31 PM

P.1127 - §4 Of God, the most inescapable of all presences, the most real of all facts, the most living of all truths, the most loving of all friends, and the most divine of all values, we have the right to be the most certain of all universe experiences.


Keeping God at the center of your being, reminding yourself to remember and make Him a part of your life, is the greatest hope of receiving personal revelation, of having your personal fragment of the Father, influence or "adjust" your thinking.
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power




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