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A Look Into Other Religious Material


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#41 jessemilio

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 02:29 PM

Bonita

Putting aside, The intent which I tried to mean, was not that I or any body would close the Bible and never read it again. on the contrary I possess probably 14 or more translations of the Bible and I refer to them almost daily. My intent was simply to suggest that once you become a UB reader the primary book you read is the UB. The beauty of being able to hear ones TA is to comprehend deeper instites into the purpose or reasoning of some of these threads. Bonita, Jesus had no Bible to put aside. It was the only sacred writings at the time. Now consider if Jesus was walking the earth in these century, Which book do you think he would pick up and quote?

In brotherly love........Jess

#42 Bonita

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 04:22 PM

Jess,

Bonita, Jesus had no Bible to put aside. It was the only sacred writings at the time. Now consider if Jesus was walking the earth in these century, Which book do you think he would pick up and quote?


Let me see if I understand what you are saying. You are saying that there were no other sacred writings at the time of Jesus other than the Hebrew Bible, therefore Jesus had no reason to put it aside because there was nothing else to read? If you stop to think for a moment, you will realize that this cannot be true. Jesus traveled to Alexandria where he read all the scripture of the world's religions at that time. In fact, he and Ganid spent a great deal of time and money organizing a thorough synopsis of the world's scriptures.

Jesus also studied other religious material as a young man, reading many apocalyptic books including the Book of Enoch. (p1390:3 126:3.8) The scrolls discovered recently at Qumran included most of the religious books available at the time of Jesus. I'm sure he read or was aware of all of them.

Jesus had access to his divine mind after his baptism and could be his own source of divine truth. He was and is TRUTH, yet he continued to quote scripture rather than put it aside in exchange for his own elevated source of truth. I don't think Jesus had any inclination to put the Hebrew scriptures aside even if they were, as you say, the only source of truth at the time.

If Jesus walked the earth today . . .? He does walk the earth today, but what sacred book would he pick up and quote if we could see and hear him? I would have to think the Psalms would be high on the list.

p1060:4 96:7.4 And when thus regarded, this group of Psalms constitutes the most valuable and helpful assortment of devotional sentiments ever assembled by man up to the times of the twentieth century. The worshipful spirit of this collection of hymns transcends that of all other sacred books of the world.


Would Jesus quote TUB? Probably. But, he also would quote truth found in every and any wise saying, regardless of whether or not it appeared in a sacred book or a secular book, from a learned person or a common person. Once you get a taste for truth you find it everywhere, even in the Book of Mormon.

Jess, your TA may tell you to stay away from this topic and from scriptures, but my TA has never given me that ultimatum, not even hinted at such a thing. In fact, by serendipity, a dear friend just recently gave me a copy of the Book of Mormon for my library. And so I read it, just like I have with hundreds of other spiritual and religious books. I think Jesus would have a fine library like this, or at least would give me his blessing to own and use one. Jesus liked libraries and he liked to read. He wouldn't tell me to put anything aside unless it was harmful to my soul. The Book of Mormon is not harmful to my soul, especially when I read with the Spirit of Truth (Jesus).

So Jess, you said that "being able to hear your TA gives you deeper insights into the purpose and reasoning of some of these threads". A deeper insight might reveal that it doesn't matter if Tim was trying to justify his Mormon beliefs by using TUB. A deeper insight might unveil the truth that revelation is comprehensible according to one's capacity to receive it. If Tim needs to hold onto his beliefs in order to study revelation and be uplifted by it, a person of superior insight resulting from contact with an Adjuster would respect Tim's needs and and be non-judgmental as to how Tim's Adjuster is working in his mind to enlighten it. Just sayin'

#43 Bill Martin

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 04:46 PM

I would appreciate this thread being used by readers to report here and quote sublime quotes from other religious writings, much as we have our "favorite quotes from the Urantia Book." as long as they are "short and sweet."

It would be especially rewarding to me to read something enlightening ,or uplifting, from the Book of Mormon and the Koran. Any ecumenical cross-fertilization from the Urantia Book to evolutionary religion begins with Urantia Book students familiarity with other religions. In my Gospel of the Kingdom work, in Maya, it is not so important to know someone's beliefs to share the simple Good News with them although it helps and i am learning. In depth discussion of doctrines, dogma and deeper ideas requires much more preparation and a more than cursory knowledge of another's religious doctrines.

To be familiar with the very best in another's religion enables the Urantia Book student to choose those "nuggets" to expand upon. Posting them here with any ancilliary material from the book, or without, will faciliatate understanding and promote calm and peaceful dialogue.


Thank You

Bill Martin
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#44 jessemilio

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 06:37 PM

Bonita

My dear sister my TA tells me you just want to be argumentive. Any further discussion serves no purpose.

Jess

#45 Guest_Rob_*

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 07:46 PM

Back to the Urantia Book for study.

On the Decapolis tour Jesus admonishes John on the subject of the strange preacher:

Jesus went over to Gamala to visit John and those who worked with him at that place. That evening, after the session of questions and answers, John said to Jesus: "Master, yesterday I went over to Ashtaroth to see a man who was teaching in your name and even claiming to be able to cast out devils. Now this fellow had never been with us, neither does he follow after us; therefore I forbade him to do such things." Then said Jesus: "Forbid him not. Do you not perceive that this gospel of the kingdom shall presently be proclaimed in all the world? How can you expect that all who will believe the gospel shall be subject to your direction? Rejoice that already our teaching has begun to manifest itself beyond the bounds of our personal influence. Do you not see, John, that those who profess to do great works in my name must eventually support our cause? They certainly will not be quick to speak evil of me. My son, in matters of this sort it would be better for you to reckon that he who is not against us is for us. In the generations to come many who are not wholly worthy will do many strange things in my name, but I will not forbid them. I tell you that, even when a cup of cold water is given to a thirsty soul, the Father's messengers shall ever make record of such a service of love.

This instruction greatly perplexed John. Had he not heard the Master say, "He who is not with me is against me"? And he did not perceive that in this case Jesus was referring to man's personal relation to the spiritual teachings of the kingdom, while in the other case reference was made to the outward and far-flung social relations of believers regarding the questions of administrative control and the jurisdiction of one group of believers over the work of other groups which would eventually compose the forthcoming world-wide brotherhood.
(1765)



There is a distinction between an individual's relation to the spiritual teachings of the kingdom and "the outward and far-flung social relations of believers regarding the questions of administrative control and the jurisdiction of one group of believers over the work of other groups which would eventually compose the forthcoming world-wide brotherhood."

We are part of the far-flung social group of believers in the spiritual teachings of the kingdom, as derived from the UB. And there is plenty to talk about. One thing we do not talk about is work of the various groups of believers who have organized under the articles of their particular administrative precepts, resolutions, mandates and so on. Naturally, the UAI forum in a certain sense favors UAI. After all, UAI made this website possible. And the focus here IS on the UB, and not other religious material.

In my opinion the study of other religious material is a personal pursuit, not one for the forum, except as it pertains to a topic under discussion on the forum.

Meredith



Thank you Meredith for a clear and gracious response that focuses on the core point; “the focus here IS on the UB, and not other religious material.” In fact, I think she has so eloquently made the point it bears repeating and have therefore included it above.

I have a Buddhist friend that I introduced the Urantia Book to about five years ago. He is dear friend of our family, and we have had many dinners in which we discussed religion, and in which he discussed how he was trying to harmonize the Urantia Book’s teachings with is prior religious beliefs. For example, he strongly believes in reincarnation and the Urantia Book clearly repudiates reincarnation as it has traditionally been understood in Hinduism and Buddhism. I am frank with him regarding the differences, but I never insist he believe the Urantia Book. I allow him his own unique interpretations of the material, share my honest differences if he asks or it is germane to the discussion, and we even joke about these differences.

But that is over dinner in a personal setting, not a Internet Discussion Forum with a specific mission and purpose that is clearly defined in the rules and policies that everyone agrees to when they join.

It is one thing to share uplifting quotations from the different world scriptures, such as:

Faith is the origin of the Way,
And the mother of all merit.
It causes all the roots of goodness to grow;
It extinguishes all doubts.
It reveals the Peerless Way,
And makes it grow.


The world is filled with hungry souls who famish in the very presence of the bread of life; men die searching for the very God who lives within them. Men seek for the treasures of the kingdom with yearning hearts and weary feet when they are all within the immediate grasp of living faith. Faith is to religion what sails are to a ship; it is an addition of power, not an added burden of life. There is but one struggle for those who enter the kingdom, and that is to fight the good fight of faith. The believer has only one battle, and that is against doubt--unbelief. (1766.4)


But it would be very much another thing if my friend came to this forum and insisted on telling those hereon that the Urantia Book validats the Buddhist claim that Maitraya is was the incarnation of Christ. This is an intellectual belief assertion, not a sharing of similar insight-values. One is welcomed, the other is, as Meredidith so graciously put it, not the focus of this forum.

Similarly, there is nothing wrong with my friend trying to harmonize his prior religious beliefs with the teachings of the Urantia Book, even if that requires him to for now believe that the UB is wrong or incomplete. I would never insist he do otherwise in a personal encounter. But what is appropriate in one context is not necessarily so in another. Just I would not go into a Mosque or Buddhist temple and insist those who gather to discuss the Qur'an or Sutras be subjected to my harmonization of those teachings with my understanding of the UB, I would not expect them to do so in this forum, the focus of which is the UB.

If I were to insist that I be able to do so within the context of the Mosque or Temple, I would be proseltyzing, not sharing common religious values.

Edited by Rob, 31 May 2009 - 07:48 PM.


#46 Bonita

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 08:16 PM

But what is appropriate in one context is not necessarily so in another. Just I would not go into a Mosque or Buddhist temple and insist those who gather to discuss the Qur'an or Sutras be subjected to my harmonization of those teachings with my understanding of the UB, I would not expect them to do so in this forum, the focus of which is the UB.


You know Rob, you have a legitimate point here. If you consider this forum to be the same as a Mosque or a Buddhist temple and if you consider TUB to be a religion, then you are absolutely right. I just didn't realize that this forum is a sacred space, a place of worship or house of God. I didn't realize that TUB had become a religion in its own right. My bad. Please accept my apologies for attempting to desecrate.

#47 Guest_Rob_*

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 09:44 PM

You know Rob, you have a legitimate point here. If you consider this forum to be the same as a Mosque or a Buddhist temple and if you consider TUB to be a religion, then you are absolutely right. I just didn't realize that this forum is a sacred space, a place of worship or house of God. I didn't realize that TUB had become a religion in its own right. My bad. Please accept my apologies for attempting to desecrate.


You do seem to have a desire to miss the point and want to argue don't you Bonita.

Proseltizing other religious beliefs (intellectual frameworks) on this forum dedicated to the discussion of the UB is simply not its purpose.

The mission and goals of this forum are clear, and Meredith expressed it eloquently, I think.

The harmonization of any one individual's intellectual belief framework, Mormon, Buddhist, or otherwise is a worthy effort, but is not the goal and mission of this forum, as the obvious and simple statements below make clear.

There is a difference between sharing uplifting spiritual insights, common faith-sights and uplifting truth from the various world's scriptures, and attempting to compare, harmonizie, or otherwise philosophically or intellectually integrate them for one's own understanding.

That simple point was the core of Meredith's statement I think, and a wise and insightful one too.

The core issue has absolutely nothing to do with the Urantia Book being a religion, which is red herring and straw man argument, but everything to do with the original intent and purpose of the UAI and this forum, which is meant to serve the mission and goals of the UAI.

If you have a personal problem with the mission and goals of the UAI, or the rules of this forum, which is hear to serve the mission and goals of the UAI, that is another issue altogether than the one being raised in this thread and so eloquently and truthfully addressed by Meredith.

And sarcasm and passive aggressive ad hominem are unbecoming of your otherwise fragrant and wonderful communications on this forum.

PURPOSE

The Urantia Book Forum was created for study, discussion and dissemination of the teachings of The Urantia Book, and to foster contact between readers. The Forum is also intended to be an information resource for UAI activities and projects. Some Forum categories are open to the public, and some are open only to members of Urantia Association International (UAI). UAI member-subscribers wanting access to the private section of the Urantia Book Forum should contact the forum moderator or admin (see above). Please include your real full name and association membership.

Forum moderators affirm the obvious need to maintain the utmost in responsible, on-topic, and cordial communication among subscribers for the mutual benefit of all. We sincerely hope that all that transpires on the Urantia Book Forum will clearly relate to and be reflective of the overall caliber and tone of The Urantia Book.


RULES

1. Civility. Dialogue is expected to be civil and respectful. Profanity is not permitted. Since we are communicating with diverse people of different cultural backgrounds, civility can be subjective and a common standard for civility may be difficult to define. However, if each forum member acts as a son or daughter of God, he/she will not present a problem to the forum moderators.

2. Personal attacks. Attacks upon the character, personality, heritage, beliefs, motives, or actions of any persons are unacceptable.

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4. Disallowed Material. Posting of material unrelated to the PURPOSE of Forum is not permitted. Humorous anecdotes (in good taste) and poetry are allowed. Petitions for donations to a group or a person not in immediate danger and/or advertising of products are not permitted.

5. Material not in The Urantia Book. Material not found in The Urantia Book, but relevant to the topic under consideration, may be quoted. Human authorship is assumed and referencing should include the published source where the quote may be found in context.

Posting of any content which implies direct or explicit communication with celestials or former mortals; or, which presumes to contain exact knowledge about the survival potential or the post-mortal status of specific individuals; or, which presents specific factual information concerning extra-terrestrial or spiritual realms which cannot be referenced in The Urantia Book, is not allowed.

Presenting examples of such activities and materials is permitted exclusively for the purposes of example pursuant to discussion of the effect that such materials, expressions and/or associated individuals, groups and organizations may have on matters related to the Fifth Epochal Revelation.

6. Proselytizing. Personal experiences and information from sources other than The Urantia Book may be presented, provided they are presented in the spirit of study and not with the intent--explicit OR implicit--to convert list members to a particular practice or belief system. This prohibition includes church type sermons and channeled experiences.

7. Ditto Posts. There is a 50 message per day limit on each list. Short posts that echo sentiments of agreement/kudos without adding substance thereto are discouraged. Forum members are asked to consider a private acknowledgement to a fellow member. Brief posts that clarify or add ideas and information to a previous post are encouraged!

8. Long posts. It is recommended, as a courtesy to others, that forum members endeavor to constrain the length of their posts to one or two thousand words (less than 13 K-bytes) in deference to those who would like to know the points being made but are limited by time, equipment, or inclination. Warnings will not be issued for posts exceeding the recommended courtesy limit.

9. Re-posting. Posting for non-members or suspended members is not allowed.


Edited by Rob, 01 June 2009 - 03:53 PM.


#48 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 10:56 PM

It's a good discussion Ladies and Gents,

But I can feel a little heat. If we could chill a bit with this one, and try again:

...you are skillfully to put the leaven of new truth in the midst of the old beliefs. Let the Spirit of Truth do his own work....


I think it is possible to continue the discussion without irritations, if we put into words the lights of our better natures. We can start afresh, but not without letting go of what annoys us about what was said, what was meant or not meant, and what we wished we had said in response to previous posts on the subject.

As Rick says, we could chill a bit with this one, and try again.

When the apostles were all afroth, didn't Jesus send them out fishing or out to the hills?

Meredith

#49 joer

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 02:36 AM

Dear Joer, I can not recall that i ever erased anything that was posted here. I agreed with that action when others posted vile, personal attacks or when malicious prevarication made its way onto these pages.

In my life I have always seemed to learn more from an honest examination of my mis-steps, from a sincere examination of my mistakes. It would seem best to leave these "bumps in the road" to perfection for: humor, when we look back from a more exalted state of spiritual growth, and historicity, to leave no doubt whatsoever for the future that we were just like they are-that we had "feet of clay."
(After all everything we do and think is recorded.)

Every human right is associated with a social duty; group privilege is an insurance mechanism which unfailingly demands the full payment of the exacting premiums of group service. And group rights, as well as those of the individual, must be protected...(906-4)

P.316 - §5 The universal economy is based on intake and output; throughout the eternal career you will never encounter monotony of inaction or stagnation of personality. Progress is made possible by inherent motion, advancement grows out of the divine capacity for action, and achievement is the child of imaginative adventure. But inherent in this capacity for achievement is the responsibility of ethics, the necessity for recognizing that the world and the universe are filled with a multitude of differing types of beings. All of this magnificent creation, including yourself, was not made just for you. This is not an egocentric universe. The Gods have decreed, "It is more blessed to give than to receive," and said your Master Son, "He who would be greatest among you let him be server of all."


Thank You JOER for your essential kindness and for being who you are.


Love,


Bill Martin


Thank You my brother Bill. I'm blessed by your Love, brother. <_<

Your kindness and forgiveness are both moving and didactic in it's expression.

Thank You for your magnanimous expression of LOVE my brother. May God continue to bless this site with the loving and willing personalities here that freely offer their knowledgeable sharing of the cotent of the most important book I've ever learned from in my life... The Urantia Book. :D

Jessica your experience of the sandstorm makes perfect sense to me. We individually find affirmation of God in so many ways that are personally important to us. Paradise Pilgrim is relocating here. He was looking at a town on the River called Guerneville. He said no way he was going to live in that town with a Red Neck attitude. He heard lots of gunshots fired off in the hills behind the town and was upset by it. I asked if he would like me to take him shooting my grandparents and dads old firearms on some BLM land close by. He was surprised I had some. I don't think he's ever fired a firearm. I'll see tomorrow if he want's to go. :) For those who have never experienced a sandstorm, may be surprised and awed by the experience. :D

Jess I'm inclined to agree with Bonita's perspective. Jesus taught us not to condemn the Scriptures, but to lift up that which was GOOD in the Bible. IMHO. :)

4. THE TALK WITH NATHANIEL - P.1767
P.1767 - §3 And then went Jesus over to Abila, where Nathaniel and his associates labored. Nathaniel was much bothered by some of Jesus' pronouncements which seemed to detract from the authority of the recognized Hebrew scriptures. Accordingly, on this night, after the usual period of questions and answers, Nathaniel took Jesus away from the others and asked: "Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings--the best as I view it--and I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the Scriptures?" When Jesus heard the question of his bewildered apostle, he answered:

P.1767 - §4 "Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom.

P.1767 - §5 "These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the times in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time.

P.1767 - §6 "Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.

P.1768 - §1 "Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies--men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers.

P.1768 - §2 "The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.

P.1768 - §3 "The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records.

P.1768 - §4 "Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.

P.1768 - §5 "But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scriptures is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see.

P.1769 - §1 "But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations."

P.1769 - §2 Nathaniel was enlightened, and shocked, by the Master's pronouncement. He long pondered this talk in the depths of his soul, but he told no man concerning this conference until after Jesus' ascension; and even then he feared to impart the full story of the Master's instruction.

What’s right with the Bible? And Jesus tells us that too:

5. THE POSITIVE NATURE OF JESUS' RELIGION - P.1769
P.1769 - §3 At Philadelphia, where James was working, Jesus taught the disciples about the positive nature of the gospel of the kingdom. When, in the course of his remarks, he intimated that some parts of the Scripture were more truth-containing than others and admonished his hearers to feed their souls upon the best of the spiritual food, James interrupted the Master, asking: "Would you be good enough, Master, to suggest to us how we may choose the better passages from the Scriptures for our personal edification?" And Jesus replied: "Yes, James, when you read the Scriptures look for those eternally true and divinely beautiful teachings, such as:

P.1769 - §4 "Create in me a clean heart, O Lord.

P.1769 - §5 "The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

P.1769 - §6 "You should love your neighbor as yourself.

P.1769 - §7 "For I, the Lord your God, will hold your right hand, saying, fear not; I will help you.

P.1769 - §8 "Neither shall the nations learn war any more."

P.1769 - §9 And this is illustrative of the way Jesus, day by day, appropriated the cream of the Hebrew scriptures for the instruction of his followers and for inclusion in the teachings of the new gospel of the kingdom. Other religions had suggested the thought of the nearness of God to man, but Jesus made the care of God for man like the solicitude of a loving father for the welfare of his dependent children and then made this teaching the cornerstone of his religion. And thus did the doctrine of the fatherhood of God make imperative the practice of the brotherhood of man. The worship of God and the service of man became the sum and substance of his religion. Jesus took the best of the Jewish religion and translated it to a worthy setting in the new teachings of the gospel of the kingdom.

Edited by joer, 01 June 2009 - 02:39 AM.

The more we discover how much we are Loved by God, the more we want to do God's Will.

#50 Bonita

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 07:49 AM

So, would anybody here besides Bill like to know what the Book of Mormon has to say about our beloved Spirit of Truth? I think you will find none of it upsetting. In fact, it is only through this Spirit that any kind of unity will be found among the various religions of the world.

It will take hours of work for me to do this because I would also like to search for TUB quotes that are similar. I don't want to waste precious time if it is only going to start a war. Finding similarities between TUB and other scripture should not be considered antithetical to the forum rules.

Much of TUB was written using pre-existing superlative evolutionary human thoughts patterns, which is not surprising since revelation must include teachings not too far removed from the thoughts of the age. To think that the truths taught in TUB never showed up prior to its publication goes against what the text itself says. It is possible to find TUB teachings outside of the text wherever there are dedicated religionists thinking and living their lives devoted to God, in the past, present and the future. To think otherwise raises the danger of fetishism, in my opinion.

I certainly do understand some people's concerns over orthodoxy and despite being considered argumentative, sarcastic and aggressive, I do respect the conviction of members of this forum to conform to a set creed. If the articles of faith here at the UAI forum forbid foreign religious material from being presented even with the intention of enlightening readers to a potential for spirit unity within the brotherhood of man, then I will most humbly oblige to that dogma. I did not come here to cleanse the temple but I admit that I would like to open minds and hearts to the value of the "Samaritans" and to find those "God-knowing mortals of the past" whose thoughts and knowledge the revelators deemed worthy.

p17:1 0:12.11 Successive planetary revelations of divine truth invariably embrace the highest existing concepts of spiritual values as a part of the new and enhanced co-ordination of planetary knowledge. Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.



#51 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 08:42 AM

It surprises some Christians to learn that Jesus is considered by many followers
of Islam to be the one who will return to judge this world. Those who surrender
to Islam simply -- and quite rightly -- take issue with the tendency of Christians
to confuse Jesus-the-revelation with his absolute source and center.

Reducing ignorance and prejudice sounds good to me. I'd also like very much
to learn about how Michael's Spirit of Truth is moving among the 5.5 billion
souls who never learned the dogmas about Michael's mortal life.

Nigel

#52 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 10:49 AM

So, would anybody here besides Bill like to know what the Book of Mormon has to say about our beloved Spirit of Truth? I think you will find none of it upsetting. In fact, it is only through this Spirit that any kind of unity will be found among the various religions of the world.

It will take hours of work for me to do this because I would also like to search for TUB quotes that are similar. I don't want to waste precious time if it is only going to start a war. Finding similarities between TUB and other scripture should not be considered antithetical to the forum rules.

Much of TUB was written using pre-existing superlative evolutionary human thoughts patterns, which is not surprising since revelation must include teachings not too far removed from the thoughts of the age. To think that the truths taught in TUB never showed up prior to its publication goes against what the text itself says. It is possible to find TUB teachings outside of the text wherever there are dedicated religionists thinking and living their lives devoted to God, in the past, present and the future. To think otherwise raises the danger of fetishism, in my opinion.

I certainly do understand some people's concerns over orthodoxy and despite being considered argumentative, sarcastic and aggressive, I do respect the conviction of members of this forum to conform to a set creed. If the articles of faith here at the UAI forum forbid foreign religious material from being presented even with the intention of enlightening readers to a potential for spirit unity within the brotherhood of man, then I will most humbly oblige to that dogma. I did not come here to cleanse the temple but I admit that I would like to open minds and hearts to the value of the "Samaritans" and to find those "God-knowing mortals of the past" whose thoughts and knowledge the revelators deemed worthy.


Hi Bonita, Bill, et al,

The UAI forum is not a comparative religions study forum. It is not the purpose of this forum to study the materials, texts and books of religions. In fact The Urantia Book is a book, not a religion. The moderators and administrator are not suggesting that you not study other religious materials, nor are we suggesting that you not make comparisons between the UB and other materials. The study other other materials and texts is a worthy pursuit and a personal one, as regards this forum. For some it may be a lifelong pursuit. Making religious comparisons is somewhat like comparing apples to oranges. Some degree of preference is involved. This forum is creatd for the study of the UB. And God knows, there is plenty to talk about.

From the many stories I have heard over the years about how people found the UB, I can see a pattern. The underlying expression of many, many readers can be summed up by the words: "This is the book I have been searching for!" I infer that those who have found the UB have, in fact, studied many other books, text and materials in search of more. Searching is a good thing. Making comparisons is also good. Because we have so much to talk about with the UB, the forum limits discussions to the book and to the exclusion of discussing other materials, texts and books, except as referrenced in a discussion context. Some people may not like this limitation. But the creators of the UAI forum have made this limitation.

The UAI forum is a worldwide community on the Internet. Our focus is the study of The Urantia Book and its teachings. Perhaps this may not be to the liking of some of the visitors to our website. Perhaps a different website will offer comparative religious studies.

In all of my quest for final answers, I am nourished by continuing to study this particular book: The Urantia Book.

Meredith

#53 Bill Martin

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 11:24 AM

QUOTE (Bonita @ Jun 1 2009, 05:49 AM)

I certainly do understand some people's concerns over orthodoxy and despite being considered argumentative, sarcastic and aggressive, I do respect the conviction of members of this forum to conform to a set creed. If the articles of faith here at the UAI forum forbid foreign religious material from being presented even with the intention of enlightening readers to a potential for spirit unity within the brotherhood of man, then I will most humbly oblige to that dogma

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I think you are being disingenuous here Bonita, unfair in the manner you characterize the UAI Forum like we were some religious sect on top of Mount Olympus, instead of a group of religionists with common goals. You know your own real intent as does the Father. Safeguard your soul with sincerity and forgive us our faults as we move forward in the Kingdom in search of His will.

Falsehood is not a matter of narration technique but something premeditated as a perversion of truth...
The shadow of a hair's turning, premeditated for an untrue purpose, the slightest twisting or perversion of that which is principle--these constitute falseness. (555)



Love,


Bill
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#54 Guest_U-rantian_*

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:12 PM

Hi there

Multiculturalism is a failure.
Interfaith another FAILURE.
Not even the Urantia Papers are being studied fully and properly much less understood completely because it is massive, to to go and try to coordinate with other old teachings will become in another distraction.

I agree with Meredith, if you want to keep the quality of this forum then you keep only studying the Urantia Papers, you have more than enough with it.

U-rantian

#55 Bill Martin

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:13 PM

http://www.flickr.co...@N02/3585464775[/url]
PHOTO OF ME IN FRONT OF EXQUISITE STATUE REPRESENTING JESUS

When I visited the Morman Temple complex in April I enjoyed many conversations with the Temple workers, from the greeters at the gate, to the sweet girls in the Tabernacle. I found them all willing to speak at great length about God and His love but also quite determined to steer the conversation to membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They are a missionary enterprise, from top to bottom. The religion does produce highly moral and law-abiding citizens. They get results. My impression was they are "true believers."


Bill Martin
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#56 Bonita

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:22 PM

Bill,

I am not being disingenuous. Disingenuous means insincere, dishonest and untruthful. I have said exactly what I mean and have not been untruthful at all. I have given you a sincere, honest and truthful opinion of what I think this forum is. I know you don't like my opinion, but it is an honest one even so.

What is a creed? It is a set of beliefs that determine action. The UAI has a set of beliefs which determines its actions. There is no disingenuousness involved in pointing that out, no dishonesty or hair turning.

What is dogma? It is a set of principles determined to be inviolate laid down by an authority. There is no disingenuousness on my part in pointing out that the UAI has a set of such principles. There are no shadows of a hair's turning here, just hair raising frustration.

We are indeed a group of religionists with common goals, but we are not necessarily in agreement on how to go about accomplishing those goals. Our unity is in spirit, not in creeds and dogmas. But since I have never been able to submit to UAI dogma, I guess I really don't belong here. I don't have a problem with that. The universe is a big place; there's plenty of room for all of us. I don't need to be here so I will most joyfully move on.

And, I forgive you for accusing me of being dishonest and deceitfully corrupting the truth, for premeditating a perversion of truth! Wow! Let God be the judge of that.

#57 Bill Martin

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:44 PM

Dear Bonita

I believe you are being unfair to all of us, UAI and non UAI, to characterize this forum using the words you did. I don't really think you believe this is some sort of sacred church-like organization. There is no hierarchy here, no creeds necessary for membership other than a love of truth and respect for the rights of others.

This is a place reserved for the study of the Urantia Book and I think maybe that is what troubles you. It will continue to be preserved as a sanctuary, not sacred, certainly not religious, but a dedicated site preserved for the study of the greatest truths mortal humans have ever heard. Not the tinkling cymbals and sounding brass of true believers bombast or the channeler's seductive siren's song of lies. Just the plain unvarnished writings of spirits, near-humans and once- humans now ascended who love us and want to help us grow.

I think the world needs to have at least one place like that, like this place is becoming.


If you really want to take your "ball of light" and run away somewhere else, fine. WE enjoy hearing a you talk about your relationship with your Adjuster and admire your knowledge of the Urantia Book and speaking for myself, love and admire you very much.

The fact is, you will find out Bonita, as soon as you translate and matriculate in the morontia scheme, you will be paired up to work with somebody just like Rob Reno, if not him, to learn to cooperate and work effectively with someone diametrically opposite from you or one with whom you shared antipathy on Urantia.

The work of eternity begins here and now as if you were actually a morontia ascender. I know you both and love you both and what I just said seems true to me.


Your eternal friend

Bill Martin
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#58 Guest_U-rantian_*

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 06:51 PM

Hi there

Here lies our problem as a group, there is no cohesion because our partial growth, many will leave to do their bit ALONE(like many Jesus' apostles did) rather than compromise (like Peter and Paul did) to do something.

We are indeed a group of religionists with common goals, but we are not necessarily in agreement on how to go about accomplishing those goals. Our unity is in spirit, not in creeds and dogmas. But since I have never been able to submit to UAI dogma, I guess I really don't belong here. I don't have a problem with that. The universe is a big place; there's plenty of room for all of us. I don't need to be here so I will most joyfully move on.


There are not common goals as such, the urantia book readers are sort of lost, everyone pulling in their own direction, everyone thinking that is the best way to do things, probably it is for the individual but I can assure you that it is not for the group.

Unity in spirit? I doubt it, only when the spirit(adjusters) leads and people follow is that the unity appears, we talk to much about the spiritual things but the urantia book readers are not living it. P.1726 - §2 "Let me emphatically state this eternal truth: If you, by truth co-ordination, learn to exemplify in your lives this beautiful wholeness of righteousness, your fellow men will then seek after you that they may gain what you have so acquired. The measure wherewith truth seekers are drawn to you represents the measure of your truth endowment, your righteousness. The extent to which you have to go with your message to the people is, in a way, the measure of your failure to live the whole or righteous life, the truth-co-ordinated life."

Even long time, solitary and quiet Urantia book readers when they come eventually decide to leave because we don't have much to offer, we are not attractive to them, much less to those who don't know the Urantia Book, our reality as a group is very difficult. Probably is better just ignore that reality as many do and pretend that all is fine while talking about love and the like.

Disproportioned idealism is preventing us from actually doing something for us and others.

U-rantian

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 07:22 PM

Hi there

I certainly do understand some people's concerns over orthodoxy and despite being considered argumentative, sarcastic and aggressive, I do respect the conviction of members of this forum to conform to a set creed. If the articles of faith here at the UAI forum forbid foreign religious material from being presented even with the intention of enlightening readers to a potential for spirit unity within the brotherhood of man, then I will most humbly oblige to that dogma. I did not come here to cleanse the temple but I admit that I would like to open minds and hearts to the value of the "Samaritans" and to find those "God-knowing mortals of the past" whose thoughts and knowledge the revelators deemed worthy.

What is wrong if we aim to consolidate? This forum could become flooded with other set of creeds if it is allowed, in that case it is not best to have a set of creeds out of the Urantia Papers?
P.1127 - §1 If science, philosophy, or sociology dares to become dogmatic in contending with the prophets of true religion, then should God-knowing men reply to such unwarranted dogmatism with that more farseeing dogmatism of the certainty of personal spiritual experience, "I know what I have experienced because I am a son of I AM." If the personal experience of a faither is to be challenged by dogma, then this faith-born son of the experiencible Father may reply with that unchallengeable dogma, the statement of his actual sonship with the Universal Father.
I am not afraid to accept and be part of this dogma, actual sonship with the Universal Father, that is my north and that is what I follow.

In this time when books are published by the hour with some new novelty we should be grateful that there is the Urantia Papers to rely on, is that loyalty to the recognition of the value of the revelation that we are protecting.

When we study the Urantia Papers and live the teachings then we grow religiously and spiritually that some day may lead us to actual contact with the thought adjusters from whom we finally will get what we need. Jesus eventually came to rely wholly in his adjuster, living the religion of revelation, in the same way when there is a fluid contact with the adjuster you may not need the Urantia Papers at tha point, but at this time it is the Urantia Papers which really lead you to the Thought Adjuster not other books. We need a nucleous of loyal readers to grow around with, those who are crystal clear about the Urantia Papers.

There is no such thing as the brotherhood of man right now, it is just a potential and there is not such thing as spiritual unity either not even in the urantia book readers, spiritual unity is an achievement and the price for it hasn't been paid yet.

All are spiritually young, with much to learn yet.

U-rantian

#60 jessemilio

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 08:31 PM

U-rantian

Amen Brother

Jess




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