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#1 Rick Warren

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 06:12 AM

Forum Friends,

Sooner or later every enduring student/teacher must address APPARENT inconsistencies in the text because new students will always come to seasoned readers with their questions. What will you say to these new and sincere readers, as well as debunkers and detractors, when they ask about these seeming contradictions?

Over the years, I have seen several brought out by readers. Only yesterday did Jessica mention one about Nalda's morality. Below are two more cases that appear to contradict, one on worshipping goodness, and one on Jesus declaring God as king.

...One believes truth, admires beauty, and reverences goodness, but does not worship them; such an attitude of saving faith is centered on God alone, who is all of these personified and infinitely more.... P.1114 - §5

...Mortal man must, through the recognition of truth, the appreciation of beauty, and the worship of goodness, evolve the recognition of a God of love and then progress through ascending deity levels to the comprehension of the Supreme.... p641

...We find God through the leadings of spiritual insight, but we approach this insight of the soul through the love of the beautiful, the pursuit of truth, loyalty to duty, and the worship of divine goodness.... P.2076 - §5


***

"...I declare that the kingdom of heaven is the realization and acknowledgment of God's rule within the hearts of men. True, there is a King in this kingdom, and that King is my Father and your Father. We are indeed his loyal subjects, but far transcending that fact is the transforming truth that we are his sons..." p1588

...For these and other reasons, the Master thought best to designate the spiritual brotherhood of man as the kingdom of heaven and the spirit head of this brotherhood as the Father in heaven. Never did Jesus refer to his Father as a king. In his intimate talks with the apostles he always referred to himself as the Son of Man and as their elder brother. He depicted all his followers as servants of mankind and messengers of the gospel of the kingdom.... p1855

...Jesus never called the Father a king, and he very much regretted that the Jewish hope for a restored kingdom and John's proclamation of a coming kingdom made it necessary for him to denominate his proposed spiritual brotherhood the kingdom of heaven. With the one exception—the declaration that " God is spirit "—Jesus never referred to Deity in any manner other than in terms descriptive of his own personal relationship with the First Source and Center of Paradise....
p1856

***

In my opinion it is crucial for reader/believers not to gloss over anything resembling a contradiction or inconsistency. And it is also monumentally important that the revelation not be presented as absolute truth. Not because I say so, but that the authors declare it so:

Truth cannot be defined with words, only by living....P.1459 - §2

Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality. Truth exists only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God. You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. When you undertake the human formulation of divine truth, it speedily dies. The post-mortem salvage of imprisoned truth, even at best, can eventuate only in the realization of a peculiar form of intellectualized glorified wisdom. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind.P.1949 - §4


It is a mistake to call the Urantia Book a 'truth book'. It is instead a book of celestially indited revealed facts frozen in ink for all time in 1955. Yet it is truly the greatest book ever written and will eventually lead humanity to God, if humanity will be led (and I believe it will). Much depends on how wisely this revelation is handled and propagated by reader/believers like us. Declaring the revelation absolute and perfect truth will not serve it well, and the authors said so on more than one occasion.

If the angels inherently know the number of the hairs on your head, I believe the authors were completely aware of every bit of the content and implication of every word in the book. And they left in apparent inconsistencies and contradictions to confound literalists and book-thumpers who would make a fetish out of a time/space revelation that must needs be imperfect due to conceptual poverty, revelatory constraints and language limitations.

Your comments, questions and contradictions/explanations are most welcome.

Much love, Rick

#2 Bonita

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:59 AM

Well, let's dissect this piece by piece.

Taking a look at the issue of worshipping divine goodness, the first quote is taken from the opening paragraph on the difference between faith and belief:

p1114:5 101:8.1 Belief has attained the level of faith when it motivates life and shapes the mode of living. The acceptance of a teaching as true is not faith; that is mere belief. Neither is certainty nor conviction faith. A state of mind attains to faith levels only when it actually dominates the mode of living. Faith is a living attribute of genuine personal religious experience. One believes truth, admires beauty, and reverences goodness, but does not worship them; such an attitude of saving faith is centered on God alone, who is all of these personified and infinitely more.


Taking the comment in context reveals that truth, beauty and goodness at the level of belief may result in admiration and reverence; but, when belief is elevated to faith experience, it reveals a person who can be worshipped, God himself.

The next quote is essentially saying the same thing using the words "worship" instead of "reverence", "recognition" instead of "believe", "appreciation" instead of "admire". Humans evolve from this level of comprehension of the individual manifestations of love to eventually a higher faith experience of God himself and the Supreme. Just like moving from belief to faith, this quote is describing a growth in spiritual capacity.

p641:4 56:6.3 The material-minded creatures of the evolutionary worlds of the seven superuniverses can comprehend Deity unity only as it is evolving in this power-personality synthesis of the Supreme Being. On any level of existence God cannot exceed the conceptual capacity of the beings who live on such a level. Mortal man must, through the recognition of truth, the appreciation of beauty, and the worship of goodness, evolve the recognition of a God of love and then progress through ascending deity levels to the comprehension of the Supreme. Deity, having been thus grasped as unified in power, can then be personalized in spirit to creature understanding and attainment.


Again, the last quote is describing the same exact process of progressing from experience with truth, beauty and goodness, an experience "of" God, to the actual experience "with" God, which is God consciousness or spiritual insight.

p2076:5 195:5.14 In religion, Jesus advocated and followed the method of experience, even as modern science pursues the technique of experiment. We find God through the leadings of spiritual insight, but we approach this insight of the soul through the love of the beautiful, the pursuit of truth, loyalty to duty, and the worship of divine goodness. But of all these values, love is the true guide to real insight.


So, the qualifiers for truth are: belief, recognition and pursuit; for beauty are: admire, appreciate and love; for goodness are: reverence and worship.

The word "worship" is being used here to mean honor and treasure. True worship is communion, the intimate and personal relationship of the Creator with his creature. This is the level we progress to through our capacity to comprehend truth, beauty and goodness which are manifestations of God's love. You can't have an intimate relationship with goodness unless it is personified, and that's precisely the growth of the concept of worship the revelators are attempting to describe in all three of those quotes.

I don't see any meaningful contradictions at all. Literalists will stumble over this however, bringing it down to the dead levels of rational logic, practical reason and uninspired intellect rather than allow it to waft up into the sublime level of supermind where spirit transcends and transforms our simple human understanding into new meanings and values of more real consequence.

#3 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 13 May 2009 - 05:55 PM

“And being a woman of lax morals, she was minded openly to become flirtatious (1613).”

“She was not an immoral woman wholly by choice (1613)."

"The apostles never ceased to be shocked by Jesus' willingness to talk with women, women of questionable character, even immoral women (1614)."

I'm taking these statements to mean that I shouldn't live with a man who is not my husband because when Nalda did it they called her immoral. But then I read this statement:

"It was very difficult for Jesus to teach his apostles that womenn, even so-called immoral women, have souls that can choose God as their father...(1614)"

So then I think maybe it is okay to live with a man who is not my husband because Nalda was only so-called immoral. But they didn't use the term "so-called" when they were talking about Nalda.

I can't explain the contradiction about the worship of goodness. But Jesus was not really calling his father a king. He was just trying to get away from the kingdom idea by saying God is the king of the kingdom figuratively. He was trying to transcend the king idea by telling us that we are not just subjects of a king, but sons. He never said God was a king.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#4 Bonita

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Posted 14 May 2009 - 02:36 PM

TUB uses the words "so called immoral" for a reason and that is because human morality is relative; it changes as the culture changes. Usually our understanding of morality is only relatively true as it is so often tied to conscience. Also, Jesus taught that true morality is determined by motive.

p1260:3 115:1.2 Conceptual frames of the universe are only relatively true; they are serviceable scaffolding which must eventually give way before the expansions of enlarging cosmic comprehension. The understandings of truth, beauty, and goodness, morality, ethics, duty, love, divinity, origin, existence, purpose, destiny, time, space, even Deity, are only relatively true.

p1005:2 92:2.6 Religion has at one time or another sanctioned all sorts of contrary and inconsistent behavior, has at some time approved of practically all that is now regarded as immoral or sinful. Conscience, untaught by experience and unaided by reason, never has been, and never can be, a safe and unerring guide to human conduct. Conscience is not a divine voice speaking to the human soul. It is merely the sum total of the moral and ethical content of the mores of any current stage of existence; it simply represents the humanly conceived ideal of reaction in any given set of circumstances.

p1585:3 140:10.5 While eating supper, Jesus had the talk with Matthew in which he explained that the morality of any act is determined by the individual's motive.

p2096:1 196:3.22 Morality is the essential pre-existent soil of personal God-consciousness, the personal realization of the Adjuster's inner presence, but such morality is not the source of religious experience and the resultant spiritual insight. The moral nature is superanimal but subspiritual. Morality is equivalent to the recognition of duty, the realization of the existence of right and wrong. The moral zone intervenes between the animal and the human types of mind as morontia functions between the material and the spiritual spheres of personality attainment.

p2096:1 196:3.22 Morality is the essential pre-existent soil of personal God-consciousness, the personal realization of the Adjuster's inner presence, but such morality is not the source of religious experience and the resultant spiritual insight. The moral nature is superanimal but subspiritual. Morality is equivalent to the recognition of duty, the realization of the existence of right and wrong. The moral zone intervenes between the animal and the human types of mind as morontia functions between the material and the spiritual spheres of personality attainment.



#5 Bonita

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Posted 15 May 2009 - 01:42 PM

Forum Friends,
"...I declare that the kingdom of heaven is the realization and acknowledgment of God's rule within the hearts of men. True, there is a King in this kingdom, and that King is my Father and your Father. We are indeed his loyal subjects, but far transcending that fact is the transforming truth that we are his sons..." p1588

...For these and other reasons, the Master thought best to designate the spiritual brotherhood of man as the kingdom of heaven and the spirit head of this brotherhood as the Father in heaven. Never did Jesus refer to his Father as a king. In his intimate talks with the apostles he always referred to himself as the Son of Man and as their elder brother. He depicted all his followers as servants of mankind and messengers of the gospel of the kingdom.... p1855

...Jesus never called the Father a king, and he very much regretted that the Jewish hope for a restored kingdom and John's proclamation of a coming kingdom made it necessary for him to denominate his proposed spiritual brotherhood the kingdom of heaven. With the one exception—the declaration that " God is spirit "—Jesus never referred to Deity in any manner other than in terms descriptive of his own personal relationship with the First Source and Center of Paradise....
p1856


I don't see a contradiction in the above quotes. There are several concepts addressed here. God as King and God as Father, God the King of kings and God a King.

Jesus labored to upstep the Jewish concept of God as King to God as Father and to reveal his kingly qualities as loving affection rather than stern judgment. Jesus admits that God reigns in the kingdom of heaven but as a Father. Therefore, the statement that he never referred to the Father as King is true because the Father notion is in contrast to the Old Testament Jewish notion of God as King. The statement "and that King is my Father" was meant to teach the difference between the two concepts of God: one evolutionary, the other revelatory; one having to do with earthly things, the other with heavenly things; one ruling a nation, the other ruling within the heart; one reigning over men, the other reigning over the entire universe; one imposing laws, the other liberating from laws. With that statement, Jesus was attempting to elevate the idea of kingship as a teaching technique. You have to read these quotes in complete context.

p1588:4 141:2.1 The night before they left Pella, Jesus gave the apostles some further instruction with regard to the new kingdom. Said the Master: "You have been taught to look for the coming of the kingdom of God, and now I come announcing that this long-looked-for kingdom is near at hand, even that it is already here and in our midst. In every kingdom there must be a king seated upon his throne and decreeing the laws of the realm. And so have you developed a concept of the kingdom of heaven as a glorified rule of the Jewish people over all the peoples of the earth with Messiah sitting on David's throne and from this place of miraculous power promulgating the laws of all the world. But, my children, you see not with the eye of faith, and you hear not with the understanding of the spirit. I declare that the kingdom of heaven is the realization and acknowledgment of God's rule within the hearts of men. True, there is a King in this kingdom, and that King is my Father and your Father. We are indeed his loyal subjects, but far transcending that fact is the transforming truth that we are his sons. In my life this truth is to become manifest to all. Our Father also sits upon a throne, but not one made with hands. The throne of the Infinite is the eternal dwelling place of the Father in the heaven of heavens; he fills all things and proclaims his laws to universes upon universes. And the Father also rules within the hearts of his children on earth by the spirit which he has sent to live within the souls of mortal men.

p1588:5 141:2.2 "When you are the subjects of this kingdom, you indeed are made to hear the law of the Universe Ruler; but when, because of the gospel of the kingdom which I have come to declare, you faith-discover yourselves as sons, you henceforth look not upon yourselves as law-subject creatures of an all-powerful king but as privileged sons of a loving and divine Father. Verily, verily, I say to you, when the Father's will is your law, you are hardly in the kingdom. But when the Father's will becomes truly your will, then are you in very truth in the kingdom because the kingdom has thereby become an established experience in you. When God's will is your law, you are noble slave subjects; but when you believe in this new gospel of divine sonship, my Father's will becomes your will, and you are elevated to the high position of the free children of God, liberated sons of the kingdom."



#6 Rick Warren

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 06:26 AM

Forum Friends,

Do you see conflict between these two quotes?


...On the mansion worlds the resurrected mortal survivors resume their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death. When you go from Urantia to the first mansion world, you will notice considerable change, but if you had come from a more normal and progressive sphere of time, you would hardly notice the difference except for the fact that you were in possession of a different body; the tabernacle of flesh and blood has been left behind on the world of nativity. P.532 - §7

...And when you thus awaken on the mansion worlds of Jerusem, you will be so changed, the spiritual transformation will be so great that, were it not for your Thought Adjuster and the destiny guardian, who so fully connect up your new life in the new worlds with your old life in the first world, you would at first have difficulty in connecting the new morontia consciousness with the reviving memory of your previous identity. Notwithstanding the continuity of personal selfhood, much of the mortal life would at first seem to be a vague and hazy dream. But time will clarify many mortal associations. P.1235 - §3


Comments invited, Rick

#7 Bonita

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 07:55 AM

Rick,

There is no contradiction. When reading the first paragraph, focus in on the phrase:

BUT if you had come from a more normal and progressive sphere of time, you would hardly notice the difference



On normal and progressive spheres, probably ones further along in the process of light and life, folks would be living enlightened morontial lives while mortal and even perhaps progress past the fist mansion world after death. The second paragraph is talking about the poor backward, rebellion influenced mortals presently reading the text, us. The first paragraph agrees, however, that we slow pokes will see considerable change.

The paragraph before your second one explains:
112:5.20 The fact of repersonalization consists in the seizure of the encircuited morontia phase of the newly segregated cosmic mind by the awakening human self.

If there has been little of the morontia phase in the mind, there's little to be seized and little to identify with once awakened. We will notice considerable change from our adjutant, non-morontial minds but if we had come from a normal progressive planet, we would have considerable functioning morontial mind (soul), and not notice such a massive change. I'm sure there are enlightened persons alive today, those who have made their circles, those who function on morontial levels here on earth, who will hardly notice the difference in their minds' function after death.

#8 Bill Martin

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 12:31 PM

The first paragraph is written by Brilliant Evening Star (s) and the second is given to us by a Solitary Messenger. Brilliant Evening Stars are the personal corps of Gabriel and the Messengers are similarly the personal corps of the Conjoint Actor.

I find the two paragraphs remarkably similar.

As Bonita relates, the more experience the resurrecting personality has had interacting with the Nebadon Cosmic Mind variant of the Orvonton Cosmic Mind, the less "jolting" will be the dissimilarities encountered on re-awakening. The more your soul has been permitted by the controlling mind giving permission for the soul to assume directive powers, the more smoothly will go the translation.

Wouildn't it be nice to wake up in a lovely resurrection hall with thousands and thousands of people like you, take ten days off to catch up with old friends and family, then go off to language school?
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#9 Bonita

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 02:43 PM

Bill,

I'm just wondering what the significance of pointing out the two authors is. Authorship is not something I regularly pay attention to because I've never understood why one author was chosen over another (except perhaps Part IV). Enlighten me.

Edited by Bonita, 12 July 2009 - 02:43 PM.


#10 Bill Martin

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 11:25 PM

You will recall Rick was mentioning possible inconsistencies or contradictions. I was pointing this out to remind us that the Papers are a symphonically orchestrated arrangement of personalities given assignments to reveal truth, enhance cosmic consciousness and improve spiritual discerment among the more interested and enlightened souls of Man.

All of these Revelators approach perfection in their work, most of the apparent mistakes in the book appear to be human ( at least to my circumscribed viewpoint.)

Given a close reading, differences in the minds and personalities of , say, a Solitary Messenger and a Universal Censor, are readily apparent. A Divine Couselor is the Chief and all the way down to Secondary Midwayers, (our elder cousins) the seperate and distinct flavors of spirit and personality lend ultimate credibility to a master work.

I have heard the anecdote that Dr. Sadler reserved judgement on the authenticity? veracity? reality of the Urantia papers until he read the paper "The Twelve Apostles" which provide a psychological precis of the mind and personalities of the men who first followed the Master.

I see different personalities repeating very similar themes in slightly dissimilar ways. I believe the paths of their illumination are coherent, stable and highly organized. Not contradictory.


Bill
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#11 Rick Warren

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 07:06 AM

Sooo, you're both saying in essence: How much you immediately recall from this life in the flesh depends on how enlightened (circle advanced) you are at death, yes?

Therefore, we might assume, people who fuse off Urantia don't 'die', so they must be fully cognizant thru out the process?

TB&G2al, rw

#12 Bonita

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 09:00 AM

Therefore, we might assume, people who fuse off Urantia don't 'die', so they must be fully cognizant thru out the process?


I'm guessing that such individuals are so in tune with with their Adjusters when they fuse that their minds are nearly melded together. When an individual makes the first circle, Adjusters become self-acting and can go wherever and do whatever they like. A fusion would mean that the mortal soul and Adjuster mind are united so both would go wherever the Adjuster goes by Adjuster transit. The Adjuster never loses consciousness so I doubt the fused personality would either.

I'm just wondering how massively cool it would be to be sitting at worship one second and the next second standing directly in front of Michael and able to see him in all his glory. It would be stunning! No wonder you need 40 days to let it all sink in.


49:6.18 5. Mortals of the primary modified order of ascension. These mortals belong to the Adjuster-fused type of evolutionary life, but they are most often representative of the final phases of human development on an evolving world. These glorified beings are exempt from passing through the portals of death; they are submitted to Son seizure; they are translated from among the living and appear immediately in the presence of the Sovereign Son on the headquarters of the local universe.
49:6.19 These are the mortals who fuse with their Adjusters during mortal life, and such Adjuster-fused personalities traverse space freely before being clothed with morontia forms. These fused souls go by direct Adjuster transit to the resurrection halls of the higher morontia spheres, where they receive their initial morontia investiture just as do all other mortals arriving from the evolutionary worlds.



#13 Rick Warren

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:18 AM

40 Salvington days hopefully.


Chronology is reckoned, computed, and rectified by a special group of beings on Salvington. The standard day of Nebadon is equal to eighteen days and six hours of Urantia time, plus two and one-half minutes...P.372 - §2


That equals 730 Urantian days, two years.

Edited by Rick Warren, 15 July 2009 - 06:21 AM.


#14 Bill Martin

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:45 AM

If you will remember that God is the source of pure energy and of pure spirit, it will not be so difficult to perceive that his fragments would be both. It is a fact that the Adjusters traverse space over the instantaneous and universal gravity circuits of the Paradise Isle.
P.1182 - §7 That the Mystery Monitors are thus associated with the material circuits of the universe of universes is indeed puzzling. But it remains a fact that they flash throughout the entire grand universe over the material-gravity circuits. It is entirely possible that they may even penetrate the outer space levels; they certainly could follow the gravity presence of Paradise into these regions,
P.1183 - §0 and though my order of personality can traverse the mind circuits of the Conjoint Actor also beyond the confines of the grand universe, we have never been sure of detecting the presence of Adjusters in the uncharted regions of outer space.
P.1183 - §1 And yet, while the Adjusters utilize the material-gravity circuits, they are not subject thereto as is material creation. The Adjusters are fragments of the ancestor of gravity, not the consequentials of gravity; they have segmentized on a universe level of existence which is hypothetically antecedent to gravity appearance.




P.159 - §1 During your sojourn in Havona as a pilgrim of ascent, you will be allowed to visit freely among the worlds of the circuit of your assignment. You will also be permitted to go back to the planets of those circuits you have previously traversed. And all this is possible to those who sojourn on the circles of Havona without the necessity of being ensupernaphimed. The pilgrims of time are able to equip themselves to traverse "achieved" space but must depend on the ordained technique to negotiate "unachieved" space; a pilgrim cannot leave Havona nor go forward beyond his assigned circuit without the aid of a transport supernaphim.


P.544 - §1 3. Planetary Custodians. Each morontia world, from the mansion spheres up to the universe headquarters, is in the custody--as regards morontia affairs--of seventy guardians. They constitute the local planetary council of supreme morontia authority. This council grants material for morontia forms to all ascending creatures who land on the spheres and authorizes those changes in creature form which make it possible for an ascender to proceed to the succeeding sphere. After the mansion worlds have been traversed, you will translate from one phase of morontia life to another without having to surrender consciousness. Unconsciousness attends only the earlier metamorphoses and the later transitions from one universe to another and from Havona to Paradise.



DO YOU TRAVERSE SPACE FREELY AFTER FUSION?


P.324 - §3 These beings are the mobile subordinates of the Supreme Power Centers. The physical controllers are endowed with capabilities of individuality metamorphosis of such a nature that they can engage in a remarkable variety of autotransport, being able to traverse local space at velocities approaching the flight of Solitary Messengers. But like all other space traversers they require the assistance of both their fellows and certain other types of beings in overcoming the action of gravity and the resistance of inertia in departing from a material sphere.
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#15 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:16 PM

Sooo, you're both saying in essence: How much you immediately recall from this life in the flesh depends on how enlightened (circle advanced) you are at death, yes?


Hi Rick, all,

In the Paper on Personality Survival I found this:

And when you thus awaken on the mansion worlds of Jerusem, you will be so changed, the spiritual transformation will be so great that, were it not for your Thought Adjuster and the destiny guardian, who so fully connect up your new life in the new worlds with your old life in the first world, you would at first have difficulty in connecting the new morontia consciousness with the reviving memory of your previous identity. Notwithstanding the continuity of personal selfhood, much of the mortal life would at first seem to be a vague and hazy dream. But time will clarify many mortal associations.

The Thought Adjuster will recall and rehearse for you only those memories and experiences which are a part of, and essential to, your universe career. If the Adjuster has been a partner in the evolution of aught in the human mind, then will these worth-while experiences survive in the eternal consciousness of the Adjuster. But much of your past life and its memories, having neither spiritual meaning nor morontia value, will perish with the material brain; much of material experience will pass away as onetime scaffolding which, having bridged you over to the morontia level, no longer serves a purpose in the universe. But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.
(1235)


Intriguing, is it not?

Meredith

#16 Bill Martin

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:53 PM

If your mind is centered on God all the time and you are doing His will all the time, then just about everything you do or think will be real and have survival value. Unfortunately, due to the inconstancy of human existence, we have moments of clarity with direct connection to the illumination of God's will and a good idea of the path we should be on and longer periods of discontinuity with the uncertainties and difficulties that result from being out of touch, lost, without a clue as to how we got where we are, (at least this is my experience.)

For a true child of the Most High, for a morontia ascender, the translation from here to Mansonia 1 should not be too abrupt, thrilling, YES, strange, I think not.
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#17 Rick Warren

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 06:43 AM

Hi Rick, all,

In the Paper on Personality Survival I found this:

And when you thus awaken on the mansion worlds of Jerusem, you will be so changed, the spiritual transformation will be so great that, were it not for your Thought Adjuster and the destiny guardian, who so fully connect up your new life in the new worlds with your old life in the first world, you would at first have difficulty in connecting the new morontia consciousness with the reviving memory of your previous identity. Notwithstanding the continuity of personal selfhood, much of the mortal life would at first seem to be a vague and hazy dream. But time will clarify many mortal associations.

The Thought Adjuster will recall and rehearse for you only those memories and experiences which are a part of, and essential to, your universe career. If the Adjuster has been a partner in the evolution of aught in the human mind, then will these worth-while experiences survive in the eternal consciousness of the Adjuster. But much of your past life and its memories, having neither spiritual meaning nor morontia value, will perish with the material brain; much of material experience will pass away as onetime scaffolding which, having bridged you over to the morontia level, no longer serves a purpose in the universe. But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.
(1235)


Intriguing, is it not?

Meredith



Yes Meredith!

It appears the only things of enduring value to our Gods are values, living in their children. The rest is apparatus for achieving, growing and sustaining these divine, personal, living values.


...Thus build up for yourself and in yourself reserve galleries of beauty, goodness, and artistic grandeur. p.1779




Rick

Edited by Rick Warren, 16 July 2009 - 06:44 AM.


#18 Bonita

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 07:56 AM

If your mind is centered on God all the time and you are doing His will all the time, then just about everything you do or think will be real and have survival value.


This is what Jesus meant when he said:

p1945:04 If you will maintain this living spiritual connection with me, you will bear abundant fruit. If you abide in me and my words live in you, you will be able to commune freely with me, and then can my living spirit so infuse you that you may ask whatsoever my spirit wills and do all this with the assurance that the Father will grant us our petition.


If your life is a perpetual prayer, in constant communion with him, it becomes filled with truth, beauty and goodness. It's not that life becomes a utopian dream where every desire is fulfilled, that is Disney. Life is still rich and full of challenges, but one's attitude changes and one's ability to see truth, beauty and goodness, or its potential, even in the unlovely, is enhanced dramatically. And the power to overcome defeat, doubt, disappointment and disillusionment is immediately available and on tap at all times.

Unfortunately, due to the inconstancy of human existence, we have moments of clarity with direct connection to the illumination of God's will and a good idea of the path we should be on and longer periods of discontinuity with the uncertainties and difficulties that result from being out of touch, lost, without a clue as to how we got where we are, (at least this is my experience.)


And this reminds me of yet another quote:

p1739 Do not become discouraged by the discovery that you are human. Human nature may tend toward evil, but it is not inherently sinful. Be not downcast by your failure wholly to forget some of your regrettable experiences. The mistakes which you fail to forget in time will be forgotten in eternity. Lighten your burdens of soul by speedily acquiring a long-distance view of your destiny, a universe expansion of your career.


Being out of touch is merely momentary disloyalty to your single-most best friend; it's allowing your mind to be distracted and go off course chasing self-interest like an untrained puppy. Perpetual prayer keeps your mind on a heavenly leash, but it is a lax and loving one.

p2065:8 194:3.20 Prayer does not move the divine heart to liberality of bestowal, but it does so often dig out larger and deeper channels wherein the divine bestowals may flow to the hearts and souls of those who thus remember to maintain unbroken communion with their Maker through sincere prayer and true worship.



#19 menno

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 12:33 PM

Regarding Apparent Contradictions in the UB: This may have been discussed a while back, before I joined in but bear with me as I bring this point up and see what answer ideas are out there in reponse,

Part I ends on page 354 with the last sentence ending with "...in the year A.D. 1934."
Part II ends on page 648 with the last sentence ending with "...in the year 1934 of Urantia time."
Part III ends on page 1319 with the last sentence ending with "...in the year A.D. 1935 of Urantia time."
Part IV ends on page 2097 with No Date

Notice the inconsistent ways of stating the years. re the first 3 Parts . first A.D. and year but no refernce to Urantia time...then secondly no A.D. year with a refernce to Urantia time...then thirdly A.D. year and Urantia time.
Then Part IV No date at all
When one considers the fact that Dr. William Sadler had from around 1940 up to the time of the first printing in 1955 to clarify the dates noted above and deal with the final completion date at the end. point: if it was important to put dates in..then why not be consistent with this.

Aside from these dates there is an interesting fact though: The UB begins with the first sentence containing Father and God in it and the very last sentence on page 2097 also contains God and Father.

You'll notice that I don't use the quotations feature. The reason being that I believe that getting too wrapped up in the details can take away ones focus from the essence of Truth, Beauty and Goodness. It is like studying Law and Rule of Law..like our present system is doing and yet completely missing the point of finding Justice . So it is with delving really deep into the exact wording of the UB material. Sometimes it is wise to step back and have an overview as to just what the core essence is that is being conveyed to us humans.
What is more important: having more and more people read the UB or is it perhaps better to become more and more connected with our Divine Thought Adjusters and then allow them to guide our thoughts, feelings and actions as we interact with our fellow man . In my 38 years of UB exposure, I have discovered that many people simply do not resonate with the UB. Does that mean that they are somehow disenfranchised from getting united with their own TA. NO it does not. It simply means that their minds and hearts are focused to find The Father in a different fashion.
My wife of 45 years does not resonate with the UB. Never has...probably never will. Am I afraid that she is not evolving and expanding spiritually and getting closer to The Father. No Way. In a lot of ways she is more aware and advanced than I am. We compliment each other as two differnt halves of a whole.
Anyways back to the subject of apparent contradictions; yes, the UB has it's full share of them. The skeptics have found their share of them. Does that destroy the validityof the essence of the UB material ? No. It just shows that one should not get 100% wrapped up with the details.

#20 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 12:56 PM

Hi menno,

Thanks for your thoughts. One way we might see the Urantia papers serving this world is: as a "frame of reference", a framework of concepts appropriate for our time. For those of us discovering our Father and our selves, such a "universe frame" provides a vocabulary of concept sufficient to allow us to share insights and experiences that were once considered "too deep for words".

Sometimes it is wise to step back and have an overview as to just what the core essence is that is being conveyed to us humans.

Indeed!
Nigel




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