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Jesus' Spirit of Truth


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#21 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 02:52 PM

There's no such thing as a miserably long Bonita post. I'll read your exposes. A UB reader friend once expressed the opinion that the Spirit of Truth is the recognition of truth. He said it was this sense of knowing that helped him recognize the UB was true. But this guy also thinks a lot of other questionable information is true, questionable messages from questionable sources that the Spirit of Truth says to my soul is definitely NOT true. He can say the same about me. Why would the Spirit of Truth tell us two different things? Obviously our ability to recognize truth is not infallible. Also, how many times have I believed something only to find out later that I had been misinformed? But I was so sure at the time. If the Spirit of Truth is there so we won’t be helpless victims to lies and misinformation and false teachers, why do I still fall for lies? I will say that the period of deception in my life seems to be short-lived. I get deceived, but I come out of it. I also learn important lessons from being deceived. I can’t find the page where the creative spirit orders that nothing be done to hide the rebellion because she wanted the loyal creatures to be sophistry-proof. But I found this quote about being sophistry-proof: “Gabriel was personally present throughout all these disloyal proceedings and only announced that he would, in due time, speak for Michael, and that all beings would be left free and unmolested in their choice; that the 'government of the Sons for the Father desired only that loyalty and devotion which was voluntary, wholehearted, and sophistry-proof (605).'"
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#22 Bonita

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Posted 01 May 2009 - 08:36 AM

Hi Jessica,

Thank you for your kind words.

Your friend said that the Spirit of Truth is the recognition of truth. The Spirit of Truth is actually more than that; he is the conviction of truth. In order to be convinced of truth, you must comprehend its true meaning and value on a spirit level. The mere recognition of truth on a material level will change in meaning because it is relative to the material level. Truth is living and growing and it does that best within a personal relationship with the Spirit of Truth who is a person, the mind and personality of Jesus within you.

p1949:3 180:5.1 The new helper which Jesus promised to send into the hearts of believers, to pour out upon all flesh, is the Spirit of Truth. This divine endowment is not the letter or law of truth, neither is it to function as the form or expression of truth. The new teacher is the conviction of truth, the consciousness and assurance of true meanings on real spirit levels.

p2063:6 194:3.8 This new teacher will be forever unfolding to the truth-seeking believer that which was so divinely folded up in the person and nature of the Son of Man.

So many people believe that because the word "spirit" is in Spirit of Truth it is an energy field which draws the mind to truth like a gravity force. Although that may be conceptually accurate, it is not how it works in practice. The conviction of truth is acquired through a dynamic interpersonal relationship with God.

p1949:4 180:5.2 Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality. Truth exists only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God.

The Spirit of Truth is not just a force field, he is a person as well. How else can he be called a Teacher? a Comforter?

p377:10 34:4.2 This bestowed Comforter is the spiritual force which ever draws all truth seekers towards him who is the personification of truth in the local universe. This spirit is an inherent endowment of the Creator Son, emerging from his divine nature just as the master circuits of the grand universe are derived from the personality presences of the Paradise Deities.

p1960:1 181:2.20 In the meantime, become as a little child in the kingdom of the spirit and permit me, as the spirit of the new teacher, to lead you forward in the spiritual kingdom. And in this way will I be able to do much for you which I was not able to accomplish when I sojourned with you as a mortal of the realm. And always remember, Philip, he who has seen me has seen the Father. ”

Oftentimes, when we succumb to non-truth it is from a lack of experiential wisdom or spiritual insight. Truth conviction is a growth phenomenon and requires that the individual function on supermaterial levels of consciousness. I only know of one way to do that and that is prayer and worship, an attempt to actually commune with the Spirit of Truth, which is the spirit of both the Father and the Son. The Spirit of Truth is bestowed in accordance with an individual's love of truth and spiritual capacity. To experience a greater effectiveness of the Spirit of Truth requires an increase in the love for truth and the growth of capacity for receptivity, which I believe is accomplished through prayerful communion.

p1949:5 180:5.3 Truth is a spiritual reality value experienced only by spirit-endowed beings who function upon supermaterial levels of universe consciousness, and who, after the realization of truth, permit its spirit of activation to live and reign within their souls.

p2063:4 194:3.6 This new teacher was bestowed upon mankind, and every soul received him in accordance with the love for truth and the capacity to grasp and comprehend spiritual realities.

The fact that our ability to recognize truth is not infallible is precisely why the Spirit of Truth is called the "New Teacher". The new teacher enlightens the soul with a personal revelation of truth. Enlightenment does not always come in one great blast; it usually is an evolutionary process of which you must be a willing partner.

p1948:3 180:4.2 In just a few hours the world will see me no more; but you will continue to know me in your hearts even until I send you this new teacher, the Spirit of Truth. As I have lived with you in person, then shall I live in you; I shall be one with your personal experience in the spirit kingdom.

p1949:1 180:4.5 This new teacher is the Spirit of Truth who will live with each one of you, in your hearts, and so will all the children of light be made one and be drawn toward one another. And in this very manner will my Father and I be able to live in the souls of each one of you and also in the hearts of all other men who love us and make that love real in their experiences by loving one another, even as I am now loving you.

p1949:3 180:5.1 And this new teacher is the spirit of living and growing truth, expanding, unfolding, and adaptative truth.

p1954:1 181:1.4 I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, but all men will not choose to receive this new teacher as the guide and counselor of the soul. But as many as do receive him shall be enlightened, cleansed, and comforted. And this Spirit of Truth will become in them a well of living water springing up into eternal life.


And, we can count on Jesus or Michael, as the Spirit of Truth, to accompany us throughout our local universe career and possibly beyond.

p1961:3 181:2.24 Fear not; that which you now fail to comprehend, the new teacher, when he has come, will reveal to you throughout the remainder of your life on earth and on through your training in the eternal ages. ”



#23 Rick Warren

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 05:38 AM

...I can’t find the page where the creative spirit orders that nothing be done to hide the rebellion because she wanted the loyal creatures to be sophistry-proof.


Is this it Midsoniter woman?

And there is compensation for these trials, delays, and disappointments which invariably accompany the sin of rebellion. Of the many valuable repercussions of the Lucifer rebellion which might be named, I will only call attention to the enhanced careers of those mortal ascenders, the Jerusem citizens, who, by withstanding the sophistries of sin, placed themselves in line for becoming future Mighty Messengers, fellows of my own order. Every being who stood the test of that evil episode thereby immediately advanced his administrative status and enhanced his spiritual worth.P.619 - §2

#24 Rick Warren

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 06:32 AM




Hi Bonita, Forum Friends,

Thanks much for your post on feelings/emotions, human and divine, Bonita, because I too have been confused on this subject. What role should feelings play in material and spiritual life? We are told that the soul is the part of us that feels. God our Father created the potential for feeling, does the creator of emotion not feel?

You suggest emotions and feelings are somehow different. Not sure I can agree on this as the authors do seem to use them interchangeably at times. And maybe that's good because it keeps us from attempts at crystallization of revealed truths.

You also suggest that feelings evolve. This resonates with my sense of the SoT (albeit imperfect). Surely feelings/emotions must be unified with the rest of the components of being. And if our thinking can be uplifted and matured, why not feelings also? Does our emotive capability and feeling capacity evolve as spirit growth occurs?

In the Discourse on Religion, Jesus is paraphrased as saying?

...The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling. p.1732

Emotion begins in infancy, we cried when hunger arose. Hunger for food is a feeling, but the adult can hunger for truth, righteousness and the way to Paradise. Feelings do develop, expand and become beautiful alongside right thinking, wise acting and worshipful devotion, no?

...Jesus knows about the thoughts and feelings, the urges and impulses, of the evolutionary and ascendant mortals of the realms, from birth to death. He has lived the human life from the beginnings of physical, intellectual, and spiritual selfhood up through infancy, childhood, youth, and adulthood--even to the human experience of death. p.1425

As for the maturation of emotion, Jesus said:

"...The issues of life and death are being set before you--the sinful pleasures of time against the righteous realities of eternity. Even now you should begin to find deliverance from the bondage of fear and doubt as you enter upon the living of the new life of faith and hope. And when the feelings of service for your fellow men arise within your soul, do not stifle them; when the emotions of love for your neighbor well up within your heart, give expression to such urges of affection in intelligent ministry to the real needs of your fellows." p.1745

Much love, Rick


#25 Bonita

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 03:58 PM

Hello Rick,

In my previous post I wrote: "So, what of feelings that do not come to us through the physical body? Do they result in a different type of emotional reaction or attitude?"

With this statement, I was referring to spiritual feelings which elicit a different type of emotional reaction in us. I still stand that emotion is a reaction to a stimulus (feeling) and is based upon a variety of factors, such as heredity, environment, culture, health, education, and ego development as examples.

Spiritual feelings, I believe, occur in the soul, and the emotional reaction to those feelings are determined primarily by the degree of personality unification and identification with higher spirit values. A divinely watered soul has a spiritually fragrant emotional attitude.

We all know of individuals whose personalities are not perfectly balanced who have had bizarre and peculiar emotional reactions to spiritual feelings or experiences. There are those who misinterpret spiritual feelings with mystical phantasms of mythical proportion. Then, there are those who react with trancelike fixation on the awe and wonder of it all. And still, others who become crazed crusaders and world saviors, misled by powerful emotions as a result of spiritual feelings.

But when the personality gains self-control, human feelings and emotions give way to the divine feelings of the soul, always growing toward a spiritually mature emotional reaction, the expression of the highest interpretation of the Golden Rule, to love others as God loves us. Learning to actually live this rule requires self-mastery which would include mastery over one's human emotions and the willingness to express divine emotions as the spirit so inspires the soul to feel.

p1673:2  149:4.2 Anger is a material manifestation which represents, in a general way, the measure of the failure of the spiritual nature to gain control of the combined intellectual and physical natures. Anger indicates your lack of tolerant brotherly love plus your lack of self-respect and self-control.

p381:3 34:6.9 In every mortal there exists a dual nature: the inheritance of animal tendencies and the high urge of spirit endowment. During the short life you live on Urantia, these two diverse and opposing urges can seldom be fully reconciled; they can hardly be harmonized and unified; but throughout your lifetime the combined Spirit ever ministers to assist you in subjecting the flesh more and more to the leading of the Spirit. Even though you must live your material life through, even though you cannot escape the body and its necessities, nonetheless, in purpose and ideals you are empowered increasingly to subject the animal nature to the mastery of the Spirit. There truly exists within you a conspiracy of spiritual forces, a confederation of divine powers, whose exclusive purpose is to effect your final deliverance from material bondage and finite handicaps.

p381:7 34:6.13 The consciousness of the spirit domination of a human life is presently attended by an increasing exhibition of the characteristics of the Spirit in the life reactions of such a spirit-led mortal, "for the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance."

#26 Rick Warren

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 05:02 AM

Dear Bonita, Forumites,

Very much grateful for your deep ruminations on this Bonita. If you are saying soul maturation means refining and spiritualizing every aspect of being, feelings included, we can agree. But I admit to still having trouble seeing any differences between emotion and feeling, only a difference in the quality of either/both as time passes, as maturity does its work. Emotions/feelings add a dimension to life that can be had no other way, and they seem to get richer as I grow in spirit understanding and accumulate experience in real values.

Feelings appear to be a universal endowment of all personal beings, Father included. God must be the originator and highest possible expression of sentience. Indeed, Father rules by feeling:

...in all his vast family relationship with the creatures of time the God of universes is governed by divine sentiment.... p.59

It may very well be that feeling, from human infancy to Divine Finality, is simply a maturation process, that human to divine sentience represents a spectrum or range of possible feeling, rather than polar opposites or antagonistic concepts...

Good cheer, Rick

Edited by Rick Warren, 04 May 2009 - 04:44 AM.


#27 Bonita

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 09:44 AM

Dear Rick,

I think we do somewhat agree on feeling and emotion. I am attempting to show a way to separate the two very similar and confused words that are almost always used as synonyms, even in TUB; but, historically they have different origins. I do, however, respect your rejection of my hypothesis.

Etymology of the word emotion:
1579, "a (physical) moving, stirring, agitation," from M.Fr. emotion, from O.Fr. emouvoir "stir up," from L. emovere "move out, remove, agitate," from ex- "out" + movere "to move" (see move). Sense of "strong feeling" is first recorded 1660; extended to "any feeling" 1808. Emote is a 1917 back-formation. Emotional "liable to emotion" is from 1857.

Etymology of the word feeling:
O.E. felan "to touch," from Gmc. *folijanan (cf. Du. voelen, Ger. fühlen "to feel," O.N. falma "to grope"), from PIE base *(s)pol-/*(s)pal- "to strike softly" (cf. Gk. psallein "to pluck (the harp)," L. palpare "to touch softly, stroke," palpitare "to move quickly"). The sense in O.E. was "to perceive through senses which are not referred to any special organ." Sense of "be conscious of a sensation or emotion" developed by c.1290; that of "to have sympathy or compassion" is from 1605; feeling (n.) "emotion" is first recorded 1369; feelings "tender or sensitive side of one's nature" is 1771. Noun sense of "sexual grope" is from 1932; from verbal phrase to feel (someone) up (1930).


TUB indicates that God does not communicate with us by our feelings and gives little regard to our emotions, meaning human feelings and emotions. He does commune with us using divine feelings and gives preference to our divine emotions.

A divine sentiment is a divine attitude (emotion). God rules by sentiment, his divinely tender opinion, a cognitive truth. God does not rule by sentimentality, an excessive and maudlin tenderness, something the Christian Church has been confused about throughout the centuries.

The fact that God is sentient simply means that he is consciously aware, responsive and reactive. Our sentience is a function of mind, the thinking, perceiving, and feeling mechanism of the human organism. Our minds perceive (feel) and react with a mental attitude (emotion). Because there are so many levels of mind, there must be many levels of feeling and emotion. Feeling and emotion on the superconscious level of mind must be divine.

But, I think there is danger in humanizing God by attributing to him our human feelings and emotions. God's sentience and sentiment are not like our own.

p53:3 3:6.5 It is a great blunder to humanize God, except in the concept of the indwelling Thought Adjuster, but even that is not so stupid as completely to mechanize the idea of the First Great Source and Center.

p53:4 3:6.6 Does the Paradise Father suffer? I do not know. The Creator Sons most certainly can and sometimes do, even as do mortals. The Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit suffer in a modified sense. I think the Universal Father does, but I cannot understand how; perhaps through the personality circuit or through the individuality of the Thought Adjusters and other bestowals of his eternal nature. He has said of the mortal races, "In all your afflictions I am afflicted." He unquestionably experiences a fatherly and sympathetic understanding; he may truly suffer, but I do not comprehend the nature thereof.


Our ability to feel or perceive God's presence is an experience on the superconscious level of mind and our reaction to that feeling or perception is the emotion of "love in return". When we react to the feeling of the Father's love with "love in return", we expand our ability to feel and perceive more. We grow. If we remain only on the feeling and receiving end of this love and do not react with an emotion, we are not living and growing. True religion is not a passive feeling, it is a dynamic and living experience. True love is not just a feeling, it must be an active emotion in order to be alive.

p50:4 3:4.6 Mortal man cannot possibly know the infinitude of the heavenly Father. Finite mind cannot think through such an absolute truth or fact. But this same finite human being can actually feel—literally experience—the full and undiminished impact of such an infinite Father's LOVE. Such a love can be truly experienced, albeit while quality of experience is unlimited, quantity of such an experience is strictly limited by the human capacity for spiritual receptivity and by the associated capacity to love the Father in return.


But in truth, TUB tells us that there is no sufficient word for spiritual feelings or emotions. They prefer to use the word "God-consciousness" which implies a function of the higher mind.

p1130:5 103:1.6 The realization of the recognition of spiritual values is an experience which is superideational. There is no word in any human language which can be employed to designate this "sense," "feeling," "intuition," or "experience" which we have elected to call God-consciousness. The spirit of God that dwells in man is not personal—the Adjuster is prepersonal—but this Monitor presents a value, exudes a flavor of divinity, which is personal in the highest and infinite sense. If God were not at least personal, he could not be conscious, and if not conscious, then would he be infrahuman.



But feeling must be an important issue, or there wouldn't be a whole school with one hundred divisions on the mansion worlds just to study it.

p551:1 48:5.6 In the schools of the morontia life these teachers engage in individual, group, class, and mass teaching. On the mansion worlds such schools are organized in three general groups of one hundred divisions each: the schools of thinking, the schools of feeling, and the schools of doing.



#28 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 11:16 AM

But feeling must be an important issue, or there wouldn't be a
whole school with one hundred divisions on the mansion worlds
just to study it.


We all seem to know what someone means when they describe some
experience or feeling as ... "too deep for words". Words often "fail us".
We are often "lost for words". Except for people like Shakespeare.
Their value to us all is that -- sometimes -- they can find the words.

Does having a dozen different words for snow allow Eskimos to share
more deeply their experience of snow? Would having sharper and clearer
words for "feelings" allow us to share more deeply our experience of
these feelings? What about Love and Truth? If the revelators can
enhance our understanding of Love and Truth, would we be better
able to share our experiences of them?


For me, part of the package we call the fifth epochal revelation is a new,
enlarged vocabulary, not of mere words, but of feel-able concepts.
An enlarged conceptual vocabulary, a bigger frame in which to think.

Thanks to the work of that Orvonton Revelatory Commission,
its like Bonita's mansion world class is now available locally :unsure:

Nigel

#29 Jose Alberto Wonsover

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 01:51 PM

Hi Nigel, Bonita, Rick and friends

Yesterday precisly I observed and put in the other topic a wonderful quote:

After all, it is what one believes rather than what one knows that determines conduct and dominates personal performances. Purely factual knowledge exerts very little influence upon the average man unless it becomes emotionally activated. But the activation of religion is superemotional, unifying the entire human experience on transcendent levels through contact with, and release of, spiritual energies in the mortal life. page 1090

Always think the dictionary is a great tool. I like to look for all this new words. And I couldn't find a precise definition in any dictionary about superemotional. Maybe we remained too short with definitions. And I tried to use the logic. Is more than a simple emotion or even feeling?. I think it is more, the word "super" give us the idea that is more, much more, of high grade. Certainly it is new meanings and profoundly deep experience to us. And thought is "too deep for words".

I think is like the quote that Bonita remembers us:

p1130:5 103:1.6 The realization of the recognition of spiritual values is an experience which is superideational. There is no word in any human language which can be employed to designate this "sense," "feeling," "intuition," or "experience" which we have elected to call God-consciousness. The spirit of God that dwells in man is not personal—the Adjuster is prepersonal—but this Monitor presents a value, exudes a flavor of divinity, which is personal in the highest and infinite sense. If God were not at least personal, he could not be conscious, and if not conscious, then would he be infrahuman.

Definitively a very interesting topic to study.

Jose Alberto



We all seem to know what someone means when they describe some
experience or feeling as ... "too deep for words". Words often "fail us".
We are often "lost for words". Except for people like Shakespeare.
Their value to us all is that -- sometimes -- they can find the words.


For me, part of the package we call the fifth epochal revelation is a new,
enlarged vocabulary, not of mere words, but of feel-able concepts.
An enlarged conceptual vocabulary, a bigger frame in which to think.

Thanks to the work of that Orvonton Revelatory Commission,
its like Bonita's mansion world class is now available locally :unsure:
Nigel


Edited by Jose Alberto Wonsover, 04 May 2009 - 11:14 AM.


#30 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:11 PM

No, Rick, I found the quote. I think that the Spirit of truth is the conviction of truth that we need to make us sophistry-proof against false teachings.

“The Divine Minister of Salvington issued as her third independent proclamation a mandate directing that nothing be done to half cure, cowardly suppress, or otherwise hide the hideous visage of rebels and rebellion (617).”

“The angelic hosts were directed to work for full disclosure and unlimited opportunity for sin-expression as the quickest technique of achieving the perfect and final cure of the plague of evil and sin (618).”

I agree with Bonita in that there is a big difference in experience between sensation and emotion. Feelings could be either sensation or emotion. I can feel the wind against me, but that is not an emotion. I feel the hot sun, but that is not emotion. The Spirit of Truth sometimes resembled sensation like when the apostles felt it in the upper chamber. I have a lot of mental sensations that do not fit in the category of emotion, but I’m told that’s typical for women.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#31 Rick Warren

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 05:46 AM

Worthy input all!

There are so many revealed concepts involved here regarding feeling, emotion, sentiment, sentience, superideational, superemotional, God-consciousness, and others. Enlarged vocabulary indeed Nigel!

Jessica, I tend to believe that feeling hot, cold and wet are mere material sensations, as opposed to what the soul feels, love, spirit joy, happiness. But your example does elucidate what Bonita's been suggesting. One can feel the breeze, but emotion is a reaction to that feeling. Your term 'mental sensation' and what the genders might each feel is yet another twig on this many branched topic.

The etymology of feeling and emotion is worthy of consideration, no doubt the authors spent much time studying English roots. Feeling has roots in touch, while emotion is related to being moved.

It may also be worth while to consider how our thoughts are related to this, because sometimes I am confused about the lines between thinking, feeling and emoting. Do thoughts precipitate feelings, or the other way around, or both?

At one point the Revelators tell us it's our thoughts that lead the way.

...The divine spirit makes contact with mortal man, not by feelings or emotions, but in the realm of the highest and most spiritualized thinking. It is your thoughts, not your feelings, that lead you Godward.... p1104

And then there is advice like this:

...Religion has to do with feeling, acting, and living, not merely with thinking. Thinking is more closely related to the material life and should be in the main, but not altogether, dominated by reason and the facts of science and, in its nonmaterial reaches toward the spirit realms, by truth.... p1141

Maybe feeling/thinking/emoting are three sides of the same coin :unsure:

Lotsa love feeling, Rick

#32 Bonita

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:42 AM

I agree that the responses in this thread are outstanding contributions to the discussion, provoking much thought. In pondering Jose's post, it occured to me that the revelators use the prefix "super" superabundantly. There must be a reason for this and I have to think that it has something to do with the paucity of language for describing a higher level of reality than we are accustomed to dealing with. Also, "super" implies there are other levels of reality. I have to assume that there will always be a new "super" level to reach for, regardless of how far we progress in our ascendant careers.

I also have to assume that the "super" level here on the material plane of Urantia is the morontia level, a level we have limited experience with and no adequate language to describe. This is a new level of feelings, emotions, sensations, attitudes, thoughts, creative ideas and experiences. It's no wonder that our ancestors used poetic language and mythical ideas to describe the indescribable. I think this is the great appeal of TUB, it introduces some new language to help us demystify this new reality that many of us our experiencing on a daily basis. I'm sure the revelation has arrived at a time in history when more and more religionists are beginning to live in the morontia level of reality and are desperate to find an adequate way to express and share the experience. At one time it was something only for aesthetics and clergy. More and more, the average, simple man and woman is discovering a powerful spiritual gravity drawing them to desire a closer relationship with "something" they cannot describe using evolutionary religious symbols and language.

Rick writes:

It may also be worth while to consider how our thoughts are related to this, because sometimes I am confused about the lines between thinking, feeling and emoting. Do thoughts precipitate feelings, or the other way around, or both?


This is a great subtopic. It requires establishing some vocabulary though. TUB tells us that mind is of divine origin, but our human minds do not yet have divine dignity, again suggesting levels of growth. It defines mind as "the thinking, perceiving, and feeling mechanism of the human organism. The total conscious and unconscious experience. The intelligence associated with the emotional life reaching upward through worship and wisdom to the spirit level."

Now I find it interesting that they chose the words "perceiving" and "feeling" together as though they are two separate ideas. This may be an instance where the words "feeling" and "emotion" are interchanged, or it means that once we sense or perceive something, we attach meaning or feeling to it. But then they say that mind is intelligence associated with the emotional life, suggesting that emotion is the "living" part of sensing and feeling, yet still involving thought. (E-motion, or exo (outer) motion, seems to fit here.) So, mind is the place where thinking, perceiving and feeling occur and our lives are where emotions are expressed as our faith attitude.

From the definition, it's hard to determine if thoughts precipitate feelings or vice versa, since it sounds like each is its own mechanism all within the confines of the mind which itself has many levels, conscious and unconscious. The unconscious being the subconscious and superconscious. Feelings and thoughts can emerge from any of these levels and be conscious or unconscious. For example, unconscious feelings can influence thought, such as in some psychological disorders. Likewise, unconscious thoughts can influence feelings such as urges, premonitions and intuitions. I think this is why TUB emphasizes the need for balance and unity between the mind and the mortal life of the personality; to live too much in either tips the scales.

p1228:2 112:2.3 Parts of the self may function in numerous ways—thinking, feeling, wishing—but only the co-ordinated attributes of the whole personality are focused in intelligent action; and all of these powers are associated with the spiritual endowment of the mortal mind when a human being sincerely and unselfishly loves another being, human or divine.


TUB also tells us that conscious prayer enables us to reach both to the subconscious and superconscious (unconscious) for answers. Prayer is sublime thinking, and I have to presume sublime feeling as well. But, is sublime thinking and sublime feeling true religion? TUB tells us that intellectual logic or reason and feelings are not an essential part of religious experience, but sublime thinking, or religious reflection, leading to spiritual insight might be. Feelings and emotions occur depending upon our inherited tendencies and our degree of self-control or self-mastery. Spiritual insight occurs depending upon our effort to think and reflect sublimely and religiously. Spiritual insight is the gift of "knowing" Deity, rather than "feeling" Deity, but I believe we probably begin with feeling and intellect as we start out on the road from self-consciousness to God-consciousness, and finally to God-knowing.

p1110:12 101:5.6 Feeling and emotion are invariable concomitants of religion, but they are not religion. Religion may be the feeling of experience, but it is hardly the experience of feeling. Neither logic (rationalization) nor emotion (feeling) is essentially a part of religious experience, although both may variously be associated with the exercise of faith in the furtherance of spiritual insight into reality, all according to the status and temperamental tendency of the individual mind.

p1104:3 101:0.3 The feeling of religious assurance is more than an emotional feeling. The assurance of religion transcends the reason of the mind, even the logic of philosophy. Religion is faith, trust, and assurance.

p1105:1 101:1.4 Religion lives and prospers, then, not by sight and feeling, but rather by faith and insight. It consists not in the discovery of new facts or in the finding of a unique experience, but rather in the discovery of new and spiritual meanings in facts already well known to mankind. The highest religious experience is not dependent on prior acts of belief, tradition, and authority; neither is religion the offspring of sublime feelings and purely mystical emotions. It is, rather, a profoundly deep and actual experience of spiritual communion with the spirit influences resident within the human mind, and as far as such an experience is definable in terms of psychology, it is simply the experience of experiencing the reality of believing in God as the reality of such a purely personal experience.

p1142:2 103:9.11 Faith leads to knowing God, not merely to a mystical feeling of the divine presence. Faith must not be overmuch influenced by its emotional consequences. True religion is an experience of believing and knowing as well as a satisfaction of feeling.


The crux of the issue about feeling, and I think why we are so convinced that feeling is an essential part of the religious experience, is hinted at in the following quote. I believe that what we feel spiritually is the divine presence within us, the feeling that an "other-than-me" is occupying the same space, which absolutely defies natural physics. That is why sharing the inner life or "inner space" with God is the same as doing his will. That is why Jesus told us we should increasingly be able to feel the presence of God within us. And with the experience of this "presence", we are reaching the "super" levels of mind and learning a new level of "sense" of presence, a new way of being which must be morontia reality, hence difficult to describe with mere intellect and far too deep for words.

p1122:8 102:3.12 But it is the indwelling Thought Adjuster that attaches the feeling of reality to man's spiritual insight into the cosmos.

p24:6 1:2.5 Those who know God have experienced the fact of his presence; such God-knowing mortals hold in their personal experience the only positive proof of the existence of the living God which one human being can offer to another. The existence of God is utterly beyond all possibility of demonstration except for the contact between the God-consciousness of the human mind and the God-presence of the Thought Adjuster that indwells the mortal intellect and is bestowed upon man as the free gift of the Universal Father.



#33 Jose Alberto Wonsover

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 01:10 PM

Worthy input all!

There are so many revealed concepts involved here regarding feeling, emotion, sentiment, sentience, superideational, superemotional, God-consciousness, and others. Enlarged vocabulary indeed Nigel!


Hi Rick, Nigel, Jessica, Bonita and forum friends

We can look this interesting quote:

The enlarging cosmic conceptions of an advancing spirit personality are due to augmentations of both depth of insight and scope of consciousness. And as personality passes on, upward and inward, to the transcendental levels of Deity-likeness, the time-space concept will increasingly approximate the timeless and spaceless concepts of the Absolutes. Relatively, and in accordance with transcendental attainment, these concepts of the absolute level are to be envisioned by the children of ultimate destiny.1439:6

Some years ago I believed that personality passen on upward only in the discovery of new meanings and the search of God. But certainly thanks to revelation gives us the possibility "to expand cosmic consciousness and enhance spiritual perception" as the foreword said.

upward and inward

I think this is very important. My question is how to approach that?. And I found this quote:

Concerning mind, emotions, and cosmic insight, this achievement of the first psychic circle is the nearest possible approach of material mind and spirit Adjuster in human experience. page 1210:10

But I have a little question: Are this new and spiritual meanings the same to everybody? or Are there some differences perhaps because every personality is unique?

Kind regards!

Jose Alberto

#34 Bonita

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 02:30 PM

Jose asks:

But I have a little question: Are this new and spiritual meanings the same to everybody? or Are there some differences perhaps because every personality is unique?


I'll take a wild stab at answering that. My first inclination is to think that there are multiple levels of meanings and values and there are multiple levels within each psychic circle. That would mean that individuals can be functioning on different levels of experience concerning meanings and values. Meanings and values are always expanding and growing and are dependent upon relationships. Since each person's relationships are different, meanings and values will also be different. Also, truth is relevant and the Spirit of Truth functions within us to individualize truth. Likewise, the growth of the Supreme depends on each individual's living experience which is irreplaceable. Therefore, I would say spiritual meanings are personally unique experientially but perhaps ultimately identical existentially.


p1096:8 100:3.3 In the contemplation of values you must distinguish between that which is value and that which has value. You must recognize the relation between pleasurable activities and their meaningful integration and enhanced realization on ever progressively higher and higher levels of human experience.

p1097:1 100:3.4 Meaning is something which experience adds to value; it is the appreciative consciousness of values. An isolated and purely selfish pleasure may connote a virtual devaluation of meanings, a meaningless enjoyment bordering on relative evil. Values are experiential when realities are meaningful and mentally associated, when such relationships are recognized and appreciated by mind.

p1097:2 100:3.5 Values can never be static; reality signifies change, growth. Change without growth, expansion of meaning and exaltation of value, is valueless—is potential evil. The greater the quality of cosmic adaptation, the more of meaning any experience possesses. Values are not conceptual illusions; they are real, but always they depend on the fact of relationships. Values are always both actual and potential—not what was, but what is and is to be.

p1097:3 100:3.6 The association of actuals and potentials equals growth, the experiential realization of values. But growth is not mere progress. Progress is always meaningful, but it is relatively valueless without growth. The supreme value of human life consists in growth of values, progress in meanings, and realization of the cosmic interrelatedness of both of these experiences. And such an experience is the equivalent of God-consciousness. Such a mortal, while not supernatural, is truly becoming superhuman; an immortal soul is evolving.

#35 Rick Warren

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 06:58 AM

Jose asks: But I have a little question: Are this new and spiritual meanings the same to everybody? or Are there some differences perhaps because every personality is unique?




Thanks for the insightFULL posts Everyone,

It seems quite likely that values levels are differenct for each person, endlessly evolving creatures that we are. And as Bonita suggested, all may become equal, values-wise, in ultimacy.

This thread started out as an examination of two revealed concepts around the Spirit of Truth, besides truth:


  • The Comforter.
  • The director of loving contact beween humans.


We've discussed the comfort aspect with much illumination, from feeling/emotion to values known and lived. Do you also have a sense of the presense or activity of the SoT in affectionate association with Earthly siblings? Sometimes I think it is just that old familiar family warmth, one of simple love. Other times I wonder if human love and divine love are the same. Is love always love, no matter who it's directed toward or received from? And is all 'loving contact' fostered by the Spirit of Truth?

...And so must we clearly recognize that neither the golden rule nor the teaching of nonresistance can ever be properly understood as dogmas or precepts. They can only be comprehended by living them, by realizing their meanings in the living interpretation of the Spirit of Truth, who directs the loving contact of one human being with another.... P.1950 - §6


Evidently love has degrees of selflessness:

...Spirituality becomes at once the indicator of one's nearness to God and the measure of one's usefulness to fellow beings. Spirituality enhances the ability to discover beauty in things, recognize truth in meanings, and discover goodness in values. Spiritual development is determined by capacity therefor and is directly proportional to the elimination of the selfish qualities of love.... P.1096 - §1



Rick

#36 Bonita

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 07:45 AM

Rick and All,

Since this is a thread about the Spirit of Truth, I think it is fitting to keep the topic of LOVE in line with the general theme. However, LOVE is such a huge topic in and of itself, wouldn't it be best to start a new thread in the Religion Section to avoid wandering off topic? Just a thought, but I'd hate to interrupt the flow here because I'm enjoying it so much.


Keeping in line with the thread theme, I think it is important to point out that God is love and the Son is mercy. The Spirit of Truth, being derived from the Father and Son, must therefore be both love and mercy. The mercy ministry of love has always been intriguing to me because it includes forgiveness. When contemplating the fact that our majestic and mighty Father, the First Source and Center, the Alpha and Omega, humbles himself to indwell an animal mind and become a servant to the human will, I spontaneously weep in reverence to the ultimate beauty of it all.

What mercy is this that can withstand a creature with so much potential for evil? What level of compassion and tolerance is this that makes God willing to work tirelessly for an eternity to share his love? It's unfathomable and almost unbelievable to me. I have no right not to love this God in return. I have no right not to cherish every moment of existence with him, for him and in him.

#37 Rick Warren

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:32 AM

Dear Bonita, Forum Friends All,

Since loving contact is directed by the SoT, and since there are no time limits or deadlines, this thread is should do nicely for further disscussion of love, Bonita. Pease do express more on this tender subject.

Your tears of appreciation for Great One's endless mercy are beautiful and moving, thank you for including us.

Fraternally, Rick

PS. We might never finish pondering and spreading Father's eternal love, but at some point hope we can discuss yet another seemingly unrelated aspect of the Spirit of Truth: "idealistic beauty".



...The spirit which my Father and I shall send into the world is not only the Spirit of Truth but also the spirit of idealistic beauty.... p1732

#38 Bonita

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 03:18 PM

Rick and All,

The topic of love is absolutely HUGE. There are so many different ways to approach it that it boggles the mind. Since we are discussing the Spirit of Truth in this thread, perhaps we should contemplate how he teaches us love.

p1950:5 180:5.10 Love, unselfishness, must undergo a constant and living readaptative interpretation of relationships in accordance with the leading of the Spirit of Truth. Love must thereby grasp the ever-changing and enlarging concepts of the highest cosmic good of the individual who is loved. And then love goes on to strike this same attitude concerning all other individuals who could possibly be influenced by the growing and living relationship of one spirit-led mortal's love for other citizens of the universe. And this entire living adaptation of love must be effected in the light of both the environment of present evil and the eternal goal of the perfection of divine destiny.


We could spend days on this one quote alone.

First, it tells us that love is unselfishness. The quality of unselfishness is described as self-forgetfulness, the disinterested labor for the welfare of one's earthly fellows, particularly worthy beings in need and in distress.

Next, it tells us that love is a living relationship. Jesus told us that love is the greatest relationship in the universe and truth is the greatest pronouncement of that relationship.

Furthermore, love seeks for the highest cosmic good "of" the individual loved. It does not say "for". The word "of" indicates a relationship whereas "for" means in support or in behalf of. Love progressively grasps, or understands, the goodness of the relationship with the person loved, human or divine.

Then, the lover "strikes", meaning achieves and establishes, the same attitude toward all other persons influenced by the relationship. This is how the divine virus of love is spread by the Spirit of Truth, who is the vector.

Finally, this virus of love spreads regardless of the presence of good or evil. In fact, we know that love conquers all evil, rehabilitates (teaches) it, then releases the relationship to freely spread more virus.

We learn of loving relationships by having one with the Spirit of Truth. Jesus taught us that he will live in our hearts and teach us to love one another as he loves us. Before we can love others like Jesus loves us, we must experience that love for ourselves by having a relationship with him. Where is the evidence of this living love within us?

Jesus told us that such a divine relationship will enable us to love one another with a "new and startling affection", just as he loves us; that we will serve one another with a "new and amazing devotion", just as he serves us. And, seeing this startling affection and amazing devotion, others will follow after the living Spirit of Truth whom they see in our lives.

647:04 The bestowal Spirit of Truth which invests the human minds of Urantia is unerringly responsive to truth--the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are co-ordinated in the eternal ascent Godward.

p39:7 2:5.8 After all, I think we all, including the mortals of the realms, love the Universal Father and all other beings, divine or human, because we discern that these personalities truly love us. The experience of loving is very much a direct response to the experience of being loved.

#39 Rick Warren

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 06:05 AM

A good beginning Bonita,

One of the most astonishing revelations (for me) is that creature love must evolve. I learned from revelation and observation that everything evolves except the divine. And if you consider the Supreme Being divine, it evolves too! The Supreme is the maximization and consummation of the evolution of love, no?

The evolution of love, individually and collectively, is entirely dependent on effort--your ability and willingness to expand the limits of love. Stagnant love, like static truth, is a dying love. Individual love must evolve, expand and progress for a juggernaut of love to overtake the planet and propel it into light and life.

The ancient adage, "love makes the world go round", might be literally true if you consider it is Father's unstinting bestowal of love that causes the Universe to function. God so loved the universal family that He upholds creation forever. That must be the Ultimate in Love.

The local disseminators of love are our three-fold, stepped-down, divinity representatives, the Adjusters, the Spirit of Truth and the Divine Mother of Nebadon. That the Paradise Gods would offer us these gifts in a form we can grasp and use is in itself genuine and touching love from the highest source to the lowest creature.

The evolution of personal love on Urantia is constantly opposed by lingering anger, old hatreds, open hostilities, secret animosities, simmering wars, race tensions, justice denied, fairness ignored, random disasters, cataclysmic failures, entrenched evil, stalwart apathy, petty bickering, material clamoring, baseless suspicions, heathen rage, intentional pain, selfish carelessness, staggering ignorance and a plethora of associated problems wrought by two administrative defaults and human intransigence.

But love will win out over all difficulty and opposition. That is so true and beautiful as to elicit tears, even now, even as Urantia struggles under manifold pressures of over-population, spirit blindness, unequal resource allocation, secularism, corruption and yet other vexations, retardations and exploitations.

How can mere love ascend in such a climate? Because it is the more real. Why doesn't love take the world over if it so powerful and effective? Because hatred appears easier in the short run. Because love requires cosmic effort, and because people haven't been educated as to meanings, potentials and applications of such effort. In short, we (collectively) are ignorant of divine ways of dealing with evolving circumstances, as well as slovenly.

...Man tends to crystallize science, formulate philosophy, and dogmatize truth because he is mentally lazy in adjusting to the progressive struggles of living, while he is also terribly afraid of the unknown. Natural man is slow to initiate changes in his habits of thinking and in his techniques of living.... p1459


Thank God for revelation that accelerates love. One person at a time, Urantia is learning to love, and this happens because one person gives real love to another. It's organic and irresistible, even to stubborn, dark and unrelenting evil.

Lucky me, I know terrestrial love from being born into a good family. And I know divine love from finding and enacting revelation. I experience love more each week when I baby-sit the grandkids. Today is my day with them. Unspoiled children naturally exude nascent love that grows in an environment of affectionate understanding and appropriate teaching. Not all families are good, loving and solicitous of their off-spring. Families will evolve toward the ideal, they must for Urantia to reach higher and higher levels of the recognition of Father's sublime affection and to establish the brotherhood of all humanity.

Father could have founded Universe progress on something other than love, but He did not. That by itself elicits a profound gratitude, when I can remember it in the rush and insanity of living on a partially enlightened world.

A Dios, Rick

#40 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 07 May 2009 - 08:34 PM

Rick is right about creature love having to evolve. I realize now why love is in so many of the Ten Commandments. Because it doesn’t always come natural for evolutionary mortals. We are commanded to love God because it doesn’t come natural. We are commanded to love our neighbors because it doesn’t come natural. And we are commanded to honor thy parents because God knows our earth parents have a lot of flaws and the last thing some of us want to do is honor them. :unsure: If these things came natural, there would be no need to put them in the commandments. If earth parents were perfect, there would be no need for the commandment to honor them. I mistakenly thought that love was a feeling of enchantment, but love is actually not a feeling. Love is an action. The UB says that I can love people by doing good things for them. I don't have to feel anything. I don’t have to feel enchanted by a person to do good things for them.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."




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