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Self-Assertion and Liberty


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#61 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:05 PM

Phil, you're such a silly goose deleting yourself. :P Regarding your sexy kick butt movies, Phil, repeat after me, “Fighting is not sexy. Fighting is not sexy. Fighting is not sexy.” Don’t fall for the plot to make people think that fighting is sexy. The problem is Hollywood and television conspiring with Luciferian liberty to make fighting APPEAR sexy. I’ve never seen a sexy fight in real life.

Nameless, both my mother and I served in the military as well as my Dad and brothers. I don’t feel put down by any Urantia Book quotes. They make me feel all warm and snuggly. :P

Jesus teaching about the refusal to defend oneself doesn’t apply to the military as a whole. We’re all agreed that personal fighting is self-assertion, but what about carrying a personal handgun? Would a gun on a (civilian) woman go against the non-defense teaching? I don’t know. We could do a whole new topic thread about Jesus’ self defense teachings.

I agree with Nameless on something. Women who compete for men only make men arrogant. When men get arrogant they stop showering. Have you ever noticed that? Why do men stop showering when they feel arrogant? Then they become stinky, worthless retards making movies like Benjamin Button. I hate that Angie and Jen thing the tabloids force down our throats every day. I would have said you could have him already.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#62 PHIL

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 02:02 PM

Hi Jessica;

As to deleting my post it was mostly tongue and cheek and a member found it offensive.[not my intent]


you wrote;

"Jesus teaching about the refusal to defend oneself doesn’t apply to the military as a whole. We’re all agreed that personal fighting is self-assertion, but what about carrying a personal handgun? Would a gun on a (civilian) woman go against the non-defense teaching? I don’t know. We could do a whole new topic thread about Jesus’ self defense teachings."

Reply;

I have been on a forum were this was debated and it got testy.

It was based around a quote on page 804 and another on 1608

that seemed contradictory [and a coincidence that the number doubled exactly.]

I could go on in length but its off topic.

There was a movie THE MISSION were a passive and self assertive approach

was made at self defense with same conclusion every one was killed.

Made the UB point of passive is purly negative and evil for evil self assertive is positive but unrightious
and only good can overcome evil.

With good overcoming evil the results are instant in the spiritual world but not so clear or noticed in our world[material]

Jesus could have defended himself with legions of Angles at his disposal but he chose not to.

But we are not Jesus and the UB admonishes us on that fact.

I found this article and man[Desmond Doss] to seem to be what is right and maximum courage in material reality of War.[imo]


http://www.homeofher...files_doss.html



page 804;

But such an ideal society cannot be realized when either the weak or the wicked lie in wait to take unfair and unholy advantage of those who are chiefly actuated by devotion to the service of truth, beauty, and goodness. In such a situation only one course is practical: The "golden rulers" may establish a progressive society in which they live according to their ideals while maintaining an adequate defense against their benighted fellows who might seek either to exploit their pacific predilections or to destroy their advancing civilization.

page 1608;

"Today, the unbelievers may taunt you with preaching a gospel of nonresistance and with living lives of nonviolence, but you are the first volunteers of a long line of sincere believers in the gospel of this kingdom who will astonish all mankind by their heroic devotion to these teachings.

No armies of the world have ever displayed more courage and bravery than will be portrayed by you and your loyal successors who shall go forth to all the world proclaiming the good news--the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of men. The courage of the flesh is the lowest form of bravery.

Mind bravery is a higher type of human courage, but the highest and supreme is uncompromising loyalty to the enlightened convictions of profound spiritual realities. And such courage constitutes the heroism of the God-knowing man. And you are all God-knowing men; you are in very truth the personal associates of the Son of Man."












Phil, you're such a silly goose deleting yourself. :P Regarding your sexy kick butt movies, Phil, repeat after me, “Fighting is not sexy. Fighting is not sexy. Fighting is not sexy.” Don’t fall for the plot to make people think that fighting is sexy. The problem is Hollywood and television conspiring with Luciferian liberty to make fighting APPEAR sexy. I’ve never seen a sexy fight in real life.

Nameless, both my mother and I served in the military as well as my Dad and brothers. I don’t feel put down by any Urantia Book quotes. They make me feel all warm and snuggly. :P

Jesus teaching about the refusal to defend oneself doesn’t apply to the military as a whole. We’re all agreed that personal fighting is self-assertion, but what about carrying a personal handgun? Would a gun on a (civilian) woman go against the non-defense teaching? I don’t know. We could do a whole new topic thread about Jesus’ self defense teachings.

I agree with Nameless on something. Women who compete for men only make men arrogant. When men get arrogant they stop showering. Have you ever noticed that? Why do men stop showering when they feel arrogant? Then they become stinky, worthless retards making movies like Benjamin Button. I hate that Angie and Jen thing the tabloids force down our throats every day. I would have said you could have him already.



#63 nameless until fused

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 02:20 PM

Don’t fall for the plot to make people think that fighting is sexy. The problem is Hollywood and television conspiring with Luciferian liberty to make fighting APPEAR sexy. I’ve never seen a sexy fight in real life.

Page 603 - 3. The Lucifer Manifesto - I have to respectfully disagree with you, Jessica, about how Lucifer's Manifesto continues to manifest itself. A notation in my observation book was made by a 12 year old 'nuf - "...they appear to like to fight....". Think Roman gladiators....

Nameless, both my mother and I served in the military as well as my Dad and brothers. I don’t feel put down by any Urantia Book quotes. They make me feel all warm and snuggly. :P

Jesus teaching about the refusal to defend oneself doesn’t apply to the military as a whole. We’re all agreed that personal fighting is self-assertion, but what about carrying a personal handgun? Would a gun on a (civilian) woman go against the non-defense teaching? I don’t know. We could do a whole new topic thread about Jesus’ self defense teachings.

Yes we could. And it would inevitably get back to personal force and collective force (military/militia). Both are a part of any civilization. The civilization (big picture) defines the parameters. There is nothing confusing about Jesus not being the one to lift his hand if you remember that he was a Creator Son and had to comply with the rules of his engagement with his creatures during his bestowal mission here on earth. Creator Sons, as their name implies, are creators. Execution of justice is with the Ancients of Days (a "group"). The sections of big cities in USA that are gang controlled are basically war zones. Yes, the people stuck in the war zone have the right to defend themselves - personally - and in a "power" like USA, it's hard to explain why "government" is incompetant in protecting the INDIVIDUAL against force and fraud.
So far, I have only had ONE experience in a public place where there was no "common" man around to handle the aggressive dude in the restaurant. So I had to be my own man. I am satisfied with how I handled the situation, but the only reason I could handle it as well as I did was because of the confidence I had in my mano-et-mano training. That self-confidence in standing up to the bully, no doubt, made him think twice about why I wasn't afraid of him....for the rest of the day, my female traveling companion and I discussed the whole scene - she went from thinking I was "aggressive", to thinking I was a genius in handling HIS aggression, to finally cracking up the 10th time I said - "...he is LUCKY that I did not kick his a--"....she agreed that I showed mercy :P All in all, a lot of thought triggered from that encounter with REAL aggression - I got "homesick" for the "home" state that I was far away from....like I said before, I grew up counting on the fact that the other men ("strangers") in the restaurant would have ganged up on the bully in my defense without me needing to lift a finger to protect myself....they would NOT have beaten him up to a pulp, but would have done what I ended up doing by myself in a land far far away :P I learned from men, who cared about me, how to deal with "aggression" in men - common sense told them that being who I was, a risk-taking adventurer at heart :P , coupled with a HOT temper when it comes to injustice, I'd need to know how to "fight". Thanks to the bros and boyfriends of my "youth"....I will defintely tell them in person next time I see them how I did NOT have to kick his a--....and then the conversation will get VERY funny - we're all "sarcastic" - and no doubt, men being men, a physical training session will be included....there's only 2 bros left who I have not successfully thrown to the ground - one is in Special Ops in Afghanistan and the other - well, let's not go there - something about "private service" :P I prefer a taser, myself....


I agree with Nameless on something. Women who compete for men only make men arrogant. When men get arrogant they stop showering. Have you ever noticed that? Why do men stop showering when they feel arrogant? Then they become stinky, worthless retards making movies like Benjamin Button. I hate that Angie and Jen thing the tabloids force down our throats every day. I would have said you could have him already.


That's the other standing "sarcastic" one liner in my home state - "...you want him...? go ahead, take him..." :P Regional humor in USA is tricky - the further west you go, the less likely you'll encounter women who have cultivated that act/attitude as a way to help men from becoming delusional about being sons of god....and when you hit lalaland (California), humor is RARE in the upper crust female social circles....and chivalry among "common" men - even rarer....so yes, Hollywood is more foreign of a "culture" than the Mek tribe....and let's not get started on parts of the South....a BIG and tough job for a "government" even under the best of circumstances - "protecting" the INDIVIDUAL in a place as big and diverse as the US of A....thanks to all for their continued "service" to the ideals of the Constitution.



#64 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 03:43 PM

“Lucifer’s Manifesto Continues to Manifest Itself.” Or it could just be the world’s natural evil tendencies. Both my mother and I instantly turned back into cupcakes the moment we finished our contract. Poof! Instant cupcake. Nameless, since you are the one who likes to fight mano et mano, I’ll just carry you around with me and use you as my "masculine function".

Phil, I never realized that before, but it does say that doing nothing is the same as doing something negative. I did forget that part. But I tried Jesus’ teaching in the military once. This self-assertive private tried to order me to do her job for her. I outranked her. She ordered me to take out just one of the trash bags. She was assigned to the trash duty, which was about ten bags. She wasn’t asking me nicely for help. She was ordering me as if she was a Captain over me. I could have legally written her up. I remembered Jesus saying that if a man commands you to carry his pack a mile then carry it two miles just to challenge him. So I looked at her like she was crazy. Then I took out all the trash bags for her instead of just one. She was so shocked and standing there with her jaw hanging open. Her eyeballs popped out. She never tried to order me around again. I don’t know how it worked, but it must have worked.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#65 nameless until fused

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 06:20 PM

“Lucifer’s Manifesto Continues to Manifest Itself.” Or it could just be the world’s natural evil tendencies.

I thought I said that - that men liking to fight is NOT how the Manifesto lives on....?

Nameless, since you are the one who likes to fight mano et mano, I’ll just carry you around with me and use you as my "masculine function".

Whoa, whoa - where did I say that I "like" to fight....? :P

The training in self defense that I received was done without anyone actually needing to get into a fight to prove their proficiency of technique - even when indulging in horse play with the boys in the family, no one was hurt. Surprised to be flat on their back staring down a stiletto heal at their neck - yes, but it was all fun and games. They were drunk and I was not :-)) I sincerely hope I never actually have to fight - so far, so good. But knowing that there are MEN far far far superior to me in strength and technique means I've got to be clever and have a "tool" in my toolbox for THAT kind of threat. Like I said, having a lightening bolt coiled up in a box that is available at my command is a sexy weapon :P Beats prostituting out my daughter to get some "powerful" man to do my dirty work of revenge for me (Herodias and John the Baptist story) or to count on a "hero" being around when some religious zealot (sheesh, they're EVERYWHERE anymore, aren't they?!) wants to bring down "god's" vengence on my head. I'm NOT guilty of hurting anyone on this planet. Never used a wagging tongue to ruin someone's reputation, never used personal financial or medical records in my care to figure out a scam to stuff $$$ in my own pocket, never prostituted ANY of my talents for egotistical POWER, and never kicked anyone's a-- :P Everytime I had those easy CHOICES, I chose a different path...."this is the way"...

Certainly you can agree that MEN still hold more cards when it comes to ordering a sane society? The MEN decided that it was important for us college girls to know some basics about mano et mano defense. MEN who want to keep women UNEDUCATED in basic self defense are not doing the ladies any favors, quite the contrary. Collective wisdom over centuries and millenia of raids by degenerate tribes has not been lost on anyone. Having a level playing field is an important ingredient in both individual and collective "safety" against tyranny and brutality. If you outlaw gun ownership for the staight arrow citizens, the criminals will be the only ones who will have guns...not sure why this conversation about guns keeps going around in circles....thinking strategically, it must mean that someone has delusions of grandeur about how the wild wild west is going to be "conquered"....no woman is THAT "talented", alone....but get a bunch of Rockettes kicking it up - then you've got something :P

Everyone having a sacred cow in their religion, so to speak, that someone else can step on basically means that this whole planet is covered with the droppings and there's no where SAFE to step without stepping in it. THAT is not MY US of A - is it yours?

Chinese New Year is this Sunday - great time to go to your favorite local restaurant and celebrate with them - they are pretty worried about the balance betweeen normal blue eyes and crazy blue eyes...hard to tell us apart when things are happening regarding "manifestos", isn't it? :P



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Posted 24 May 2011 - 09:43 AM

sure it's pervasive, man is very close to lucifer's doctrine, pretty much unconsciously. it's a natural tendency for a young race, not so much a deliberate action. there's a line in the book that jesus didn't see men so much as evil, just in error, not knowing.

"Noticing Luciferian self-assertion and liberty doctrine today."

Posted Image

The rebel plans for self-assertion and liberty: Everything is about how to assert yourself now a days. Shyness is labeled a disorder. They’ll give you medication if you don’t assert yourself. Meekness is attacked and treated like a disease. Good manners are thought of as oppression. Every urge and impulse should be expressed, otherwise you’re not asserting yourself. If it feels good, do it. Why not do it in the road? “…unbridled liberty (607) “License masquerading in the garments of liberty (613)…” Having a knowledge of one’s strengths and weaknesses is considered “self-limiting.” There must be no limits on anything. Everyone can do everything they want. “He was a bold and persistent in the advocacy of the “equality of mind (604).” Twisting the concept of equality to mean that everyone should do everything the same may have come from Lucifer. “…good and right for Melchizedeks and other groups, it was equally good for all orders of intelligence (604).” Self control is for the oppressed. Eventually, all things will be permitted. Urantia will be a worldwide Amsterdam coffee shop in the red light district.

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#67 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:24 PM

sure it's pervasive, man is very close to lucifer's doctrine, pretty much unconsciously. it's a natural tendency for a young race, not so much a deliberate action. there's a line in the book that jesus didn't see men so much as evil, just in error, not knowing.

"Noticing Luciferian self-assertion and liberty doctrine today."




Hi, Rich. I don't mean to ignore responses to my posts, but I threw my neck out and have been bed-ridden for a few months. It hurts to type on the computer right now. But thanks for your input in my thread. I agree that some urges are simply natural. But there are twisted concepts of freedom and equality out there that require propaganda to convince meek mannered citizens to "boldly claim their rights."
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 08:54 PM

so propaganda in a helpful sense. i think it would be hard to get anyone, including meek mannered citizens, to do much. i agree that there are horribly twisted concepts of freedom and equality out there. i'd go political but i'll assume i'm not allowed.

Hi, Rich. I don't mean to ignore responses to my posts, but I threw my neck out and have been bed-ridden for a few months. It hurts to type on the computer right now. But thanks for your input in my thread. I agree that some urges are simply natural. But there are twisted concepts of freedom and equality out there that require propaganda to convince meek mannered citizens to "boldly claim their rights."



#69 Bonita

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 08:55 PM

. . . there's a line in the book that jesus didn't see men so much as evil, just in error, not knowing.


Here's the quote:

196:2.9 Jesus led men to feel at home in the world; he delivered them from the slavery of taboo and taught them that the world was not fundamentally evil. He did not long to escape from his earthly life; he mastered a technique of acceptably doing the Father’s will while in the flesh. He attained an idealistic religious life in the very midst of a realistic world. Jesus did not share Paul’s pessimistic view of humankind. The Master looked upon men as the sons of God and foresaw a magnificent and eternal future for those who chose survival. He was not a moral skeptic; he viewed man positively, not negatively. He saw most men as weak rather than wicked, more distraught than depraved. But no matter what their status, they were all God’s children and his brethren.



Hey Jessica, good to hear from you. I'm sorry to hear about your injury. Hope you mend real soon.

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 03:12 PM

self control was the attribute that intelligent beings see as jesus' greatest. (1609.2) 143:2.1 The Master was a perfected specimen of human self-control.

from this reality of perfect self-control all of jesus' other great attributes were funneled.

Self control is for the oppressed. Eventually, all things will be permitted. Urantia will be a worldwide Amsterdam coffee shop in the red light district.



#71 Midsoniter woman

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 09:27 PM

self control was the attribute that intelligent beings see as jesus' greatest. (1609.2) 143:2.1 The Master was a perfected specimen of human self-control.

from this reality of perfect self-control all of jesus' other great attributes were funneled.





Yes, it's so true that many propaganda machines out there try to make self-control out to be an opressive bad thing when in reality a man who has self-control is greater than a man who rules a city so to speak.
"If woman aspires literally to enjoy all of man's rights, then sooner or later, pitiless and emotionless competition will certainly replace that chivalry and special consideration which many women now enjoy, and which they have so recently won from men (Urantia Book, 938)."

#72 -Scott-

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 10:35 PM

IMO the hugest problem is secularism. Now we live in a world where we are tolerating and sponsoring....

science without idealism, politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without restraint, knowledge without character, power without conscience, and industry without morality.


(2086.5) 195:10.19 If Christianity could only grasp more of Jesus’ teachings, it could do so much more in helping modern man to solve his new and increasingly complex problems.

(2086.6) 195:10.20 Christianity suffers under a great handicap because it has become identified in the minds of all the world as a part of the social system, the industrial life, and the moral standards of Western civilization; and thus has Christianity unwittingly seemed to sponsor a society which staggers under the guilt of tolerating science without idealism, politics without principles, wealth without work, pleasure without restraint, knowledge without character, power without conscience, and industry without morality.

(2086.7) 195:10.21 The hope of modern Christianity is that it should cease to sponsor the social systems and industrial policies of Western civilization while it humbly bows itself before the cross it so valiantly extols, there to learn anew from Jesus of Nazareth the greatest truths mortal man can ever hear — the living gospel of the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.


I like Bonita's quote though Jesus did not view men as wicked but weak. ;) that quote has been rattling around in my brain for months.

Edited by boomshuka, 29 May 2011 - 10:36 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom




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