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#21 nameless until fused

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 02:15 PM

[quote name='Carolyn' date='Sep 4 2008, 10:58 AM' post='5130']

So we may have come back to idea that the personality we honor should make known how they would like to celebrate. Then we follow through. In the event they do not leave instructions, we are obliged to remember who they were to us and stay true to a celebration of memory.

Sounds good to me...and a timely reminder for those of us who still think we're not going to be dead one day ;) I think I'll shoot an email to my brother...he's a good one to trust to NOT follow my wishes ;)

I am amazed at the funerals that are planned without any concern for the personality that departed. The promotion of church doctrine at a funeral is particularily offensive. Ritual and tradition overrides the individual personality. We end up leaving the event with no idea who we buried.

Agreed - one size does not fit all and the intrusion of "institutions" into the unique expression of PERSONALITY is always going to be an energy zapper...but that's what "institutions" depend on for their existence - the creating of confusion (letter of the "law" interpretation) at the exact moment in time where NORMAL people are physically, spiritually and financially involved in marshaling their spiritual resources to deal with the loss of a loved one. In the vernacular, the one-liner is "...kicking them when they're already down...".

Reminds of my husband's experience. He was asked to speak at a friend's funeral. He arrived at the event and upon reading the name and the time thought he was late. He walked in just in time to get to the front of the room and give the eulogy. As he left he met the family of his friend who was just arriving at another room. Wrong funeral; same name. He gathered his wits and simply went into the other funeral and gave the same eulogy.:P

Too many "Smith"s, eh? Funny - thanks for sharing! ;)

#22 Carolyn

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 06:04 PM

'nuf,

Each had a nickname; Bo. He did look into the casket and noted the man looked different. A mutual friend told him he had had cancer. OK...that would account for it... the mutual friend was headed to the correct funeral and was the one witness that knew the truth and has forever never let him forget it. Small town. ;)

You bring up another question: How much $$$$ is too much for remembering a loved one.

Mother picked the most expensive casket in the place for Dad and had herself buried in a cardboard box. Her funeral cost next to nothing because she only asked for a wedding cake. ;) I have no idea why, but we did it anyway.

... physically, spiritually and financially involved in marshaling their spiritual resources to deal with the loss of a loved one. In the vernacular, the one-liner is "...kicking them when they're already down...". [/color]


You are so right. When you walk into purchase "the package"; you feel that "nothing is too good for Mom" even when all the plans are made. My Mom made me call before she died and made certain it was done to the letter "her way." So I had to live with the comments from the family: "Really Mother, we can't believe you are burying Grandma in that box." I kept everyone at the cemetery until they lowered in the casket just to prove how shrewd she was. Here is the life lesson: First the phony grass was removed, the cardboard box lowered, and last, before the dirt was shoveled, the concrete lid was hoisted over and lowered on top. It took exactly 3 minutes. Poof...no more cardboard box or fancy expensive one either. ;) :P

How comforting to know that our Creator experienced the costs of funerals while he lived on Urantia. When the responsibilites fell to Jesus upon the accidental death of his father, Joseph, he was faced with many financial problems. In his eighteenth year one such problem came with the death of his little brother, Amos.
p. 1400 "For four years their [the Nazareth family] standard of living had steadily declined; year by year they felt the pinch of increasing poverty."... "James had not yet begun to earn much, and the expenses of a funeral on top of everything else staggered them."

How many times have funeral expenses seemed STAGGERING? :P

Faith sister,

Carolyn
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#23 nameless until fused

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 09:10 PM

[quote name='Carolyn' date='Sep 4 2008, 04:04 PM' post='5137']

You bring up another question: How much $$$$ is too much for remembering a loved one.

I did...? ;) My knee jerk reaction to the question is "it's none of your business how much someone wants to spend". But you might be talking about "fixed" costs - right? Since a funeral is a "party" for the most part - and the rules for proper disposal of the body is regulated by local ordinances - how much are the "laws" costing us these days...are they still "staggering"? That's probably the biggest cost Jesus had - paying off the Pharisees et al...or was it providing food and drink for the mourners? In many cultures, friends and not-immediate family members bring the food and flowers for the "party". Do we know which cost was staggering to Jesus and his family...? "Pharisee laws" or "party costs"...?

p. 1400 "For four years their [the Nazareth family] standard of living had steadily declined; year by year they felt the pinch of increasing poverty."... "James had not yet begun to earn much, and the expenses of a funeral on top of everything else staggered them."

While I was mulling over what to write in the email to my brother to get him to follow my wishes, my first thought was - "what do I care what happens to my body - I'm dead". So I guess it really is polite to consider the task we're leaving behind for others - disposing of a dead body (the final act of our earthly careers - dying). My parents took care of everything - casket selected, plot bought and paid for, even the tombstones are completed and already standing on the plot - just need the date of death to be chiseled in (both are still here in the flesh). Of course, the way they let me in on their plans was a bit spooky....they took me on a "walk" up to the cemetary behind the church after the All Souls Day mass on Nov 1 (day after Holloween) and showed me their plots and the standing tombstones with their name on them. So the complete surprise visual info was provided before I heard from them "what are they thinking?!"....and I guess all the day before Halloween stuff was still a fresh memory - I did keep my composure, however, because I trust my parents to behave sanely. I also fancy myself to be more of a Mary of Magdalene type - not the one who is going to run screaming from the empty tomb - I've never believed in ghosts ;).

The email to my brother gives this instruction - "just take the body deep into the desert and let the coyotes and birds of prey have a party....". I could almost feel his disappointment at my instructions - it's probably what he would have done if I hadn't asked him to do it. Now he'll do what I really want - my ashes in an urn and buried with my parents. I'm taking my parent's example and leaving some $$$ for it all. But the "party" friends and other family will want to have - no problem with $$$ as the majority come from the same culture as I do - where you bring the flowers, food and drink to the "party". I am also confident that each of them will remember me by telling the story of how I gave them one of the best rip-roaring belly laughs they ever had in their lives....and admit that they all hated the way I would make them re-think things ;)

Scheesh - all this time and thought and politiking about the details! Makes "fusion" with the TA, ala UB, seem more and more like the better idea for moving on from Urantia, don't it? A lot cheaper and no depending on others for your wishes being honored...you leave with your boots on...

By now, some people on this forum are probably hoping the chatter you and I are having on this thread dies off soon - LOL LOL LOL


#24 Carolyn

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 01:05 PM

Do we know which cost was staggering to Jesus and his family...? "Pharisee laws" or "party costs"...?[/color]

Scheesh - all this time and thought and politiking about the details! Makes "fusion" with the TA, ala UB, seem more and more like the better idea for moving on from Urantia, don't it? A lot cheaper and no depending on others for your wishes being honored...you leave with your boots on...

By now, some people on this forum are probably hoping the chatter you and I are having on this thread dies off soon - LOL LOL LOL[/color]


'nuf,

Since this isn't a private party I am asssuming no one wants to attend. Perhaps it is too "earthy" and the "digs" are too fun. Most likely it is a topic "beneath" their interests. Most mortals shy away from death, dying, and funerals. It is not a pleasant topic for some; the looking into the casket or the seeing of a grime Jesus forever hanging on the cross with his eyes piercing your heart. Maybe that is why we should prevent the "death" of this thread, it may encourage some to realize "dying" is not grime. It sure is inevitable.;) But how bad could getting rid of this carcass be? Mine is wearing out at the speed of light. ;) ;)

The staggering costs for the Nazareth family are not itemized. I found that the word was so bold and unique to their overall financial plight after the death of Joseph.

Webster's Dictionary: "v. 2. to overwhelm." Apparently these costs would be likened to "end of their rope."

But it may be "the everything else" part of that "staggering" that was most important. The "anxious and grieving mother" to whom Jesus said:"Mother-Mary, sorrow will not help us; we are all doing our best, and a mother's smile, perchance, might even inspire us to do better." p. 1400.

A good lesson for us all? When does our grieving and anxiety become a difficulty for all around us to endure? Jesus was basically telling his Mom "to get over it "and be the Mom she needed to be; be an adult and be brave. Difficult to do, but there are times when your grief must be held in check in order for others to conquer theirs.

My friend has such a problem with grief that she refuses to speak to the dying (even her father), attend any celebration for the deceased, or even talk about the issue. This is a commitment and a type of grieving that can last a lifetime and affects everyone. Her answer to this unique behavior is: "I am an actress and we feel more than others." She also gives red hair as her excuse for temperment. Can there be an opposite to this spectrum?

My Dad loved a good funeral and never missed one. He enjoyed sitting with the dying and giving comfort until the end. I think he was looking forward to the entire event. That smile at end told it all. No fear. :P

Is how we face death learned?

Faith sister,

Carolyn
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#25 nameless until fused

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 02:12 PM

[quote name='Carolyn' date='Sep 5 2008, 11:05 AM' post='5148']
'nuf,

Since this isn't a private party I am asssuming no one wants to attend. Perhaps it is too "earthy" and the "digs" are too fun. Most likely it is a topic "beneath" their interests. Most mortals shy away from death, dying, and funerals. It is not a pleasant topic for some; the looking into the casket or the seeing of a grime Jesus forever hanging on the cross with his eyes piercing your heart. Maybe that is why we should prevent the "death" of this thread, it may encourage some to realize "dying" is not grime. It sure is inevitable.;) But how bad could getting rid of this carcass be? Mine is wearing out at the speed of light. ;) ;)

"Grime" or "grim"? I think you meant "grim", although "grime" is a good description of how blood and sweat settle into natural fabrics...I'm not nutz, sometimes the attention to "detail" becomes nutz...back to an 18 year old Jesus who does not have full knowledge of his Creator Son identity - Page 1400 - "...His sturdy and practical optimism was truly contagious; all the children lived in an atmosphere of anticipation of better times and better things. And this hopeful courage contributed mightily to the development of strong and nobel characters, in spite of the depressiveness of their poverty...Jesus possessed the ability effectively to mobilize all his powers of mind, soul, and body on the task immediately in hand. He could concentrate his deep-thinking mind on the one problem which he wished to solve, and this, in connection with his untiring patience, enabled him serenely to endure the trials of a difficult mortal existence - to live as if he were "seeing Him who is invisible".....".

Personally, I've never been a big fan of "multi-tasking"....nice to know Jesus didn't do it, either.

I look at it this way - your soul grows as your body decays - obviously, they are on different tracks. So at some point, a soul is imprisoned in a vehicle that can no longer serve the soul. You figure out that it's okay to start to let go of the vehicle - give yourself a shot at having a "peaceful" death.


But it may be "the everything else" part of that "staggering" that was most important. The "anxious and grieving mother" to whom Jesus said:"Mother-Mary, sorrow will not help us; we are all doing our best, and a mother's smile, perchance, might even inspire us to do better." p. 1400.

I re-read the Paper - in context, it's referring to the financial burdens inflicted upon the family by that "fox" Herod when he ruled against Jesus in the case of Joseph's insurance money.

A good lesson for us all? When does our grieving and anxiety become a difficulty for all around us to endure? Jesus was basically telling his Mom "to get over it "and be the Mom she needed to be; be an adult and be brave. Difficult to do, but there are times when your grief must be held in check in order for others to conquer theirs.

I don't think Jesus's advice to Mary was comparable to "get over it"....more like "deal with it".... :P "Deal with it" is far different than get over it. "Get over it" does not marshall the personality to ACT in the situation. Besides, what aspect of God's personality is involved in "get over it"...? Nope, "get over it" is a delusional dismissal - "deal with it" is honoring the situation.

My friend has such a problem with grief that she refuses to speak to the dying (even her father), attend any celebration for the deceased, or even talk about the issue. This is a commitment and a type of grieving that can last a lifetime and affects everyone. Her answer to this unique behavior is: "I am an actress and we feel more than others." She also gives red hair as her excuse for temperment. Can there be an opposite to this spectrum?

She certainly sounds self-assertive about protecting her immaturity! Basically, drama queens are all around us (female version of EGO) and they don't help anyone with anything that is REAL....time will tell and her time will come - what expectations does she have about how she should be treated by others when she's the one doing the dying...? I hang back a lot during the "party" time - when the guests have gone home and gotten over it :P , I take over the long haul - keep the love light burning...


My Dad loved a good funeral and never missed one. He enjoyed sitting with the dying and giving comfort until the end. I think he was looking forward to the entire event. That smile at end told it all. No fear. :P

All my friends who were in the room with a loved one at the moment of death truly treasure the fact that they were there. None of them have the vocabulary to clearly state why they treasure the moment - but in "practice", you can see they fear death a lot less.


Is how we face death learned?

I think of it this way - how we face death is lived. Whether we learn something from how we live it is an individual experience. The common denominator is that we all die - so from that perspective, it will remain a "social" experience. Hence the potentially evil intrusion of "institution" to heap MORE burden than there need be...imagine the personality that participates in "kicking 'em when they're down" to garnish unearned wealth - yuck...now THAT's a grimey soul....

#26 Carolyn

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 02:01 PM

I think of it this way - how we face death is lived. Whether we learn something from how we live it is an individual experience. The common denominator is that we all die - so from that perspective, it will remain a "social" experience. Hence the potentially evil intrusion of "institution" to heap MORE burden than there need be...imagine the personality that participates in "kicking 'em when they're down" to garnish unearne wealth - yuck...now THAT's a grimey soul....


It is not nobel? or noble? to garnish any unearne? or unearned? wealth and so this mortal doing the kicking is indeed a grim soul.;) IMO If, in fact, he still has one.

"How we face death is lived." quote 'nuf

Question #1: Then is the "grief" of facing the death of a loved one also lived?

Webster's "grief (5th word up in this small edition from grim) ;) n. acute sorrow or anguish." "to grieve v 2. to lament;mourn."

Until anyone experiences (lives through the process of) acute sorrow or anquish can they both sympathize and empathize. No matter how many times I read the Upapers concerning the death of the Man-Jesus of Nazareth, I feel acute sorrow and anquish (n. Great physical or mental pain;torment.") which is only turned to joy when I read the Upapers that follow.

I feel the sorrow of every loved one's death that caused me anquish, (grief) and the joy after,(acceptance) only in ratio to my faith.

Question #2: Do you think that the experiences dealing with the death of others helps us to face our own death?

Faith sister,

Carolyn
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#27 nameless until fused

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:06 PM

It is not nobel? or noble? to garnish any unearne? or unearned? wealth and so this mortal doing the kicking is indeed a grim soul.;)

Thanks for the corrections - I so miss the wisdom that previous generations had when it came to "publishing" the written word - they had two people review the spelling ;)
I got some mirth from the spelling error in my copy of the UB - Pages 705, 707, 709 - the title of the Paper says "Dawn Races Od Early Man" - but after you read the Paper and say "od" out load - dawn races OD early man - well, considering we all pretty much have accepted a common agreed-to generalization of the "cave man" - who knows? Maybe some closet UB reader got his inspiration for the Geico Car Insurance commercial - "so easy even a cave man can do it" from that typo in the UB...?



Question #1: Then is the "grief" of facing the death of a loved one also lived?

I think I need you to expand on this because I am not understanding. Any emotion - like grief - that a person is having means they are "living" that emotion...no?

Webster's "grief (5th word up in this small edition from grim) :P n. acute sorrow or anguish." "to grieve v 2. to lament;mourn."

Until anyone experiences (lives through the process of) acute sorrow or anquish can they both sympathize and empathize. No matter how many times I read the Upapers concerning the death of the Man-Jesus of Nazareth, I feel acute sorrow and anquish (n. Great physical or mental pain;torment.") which is only turned to joy when I read the Upapers that follow.

Since I am using my imagination when contemplating what happened to Jesus - meaning I wasn't there when it was actually happening and I have never seen a movie about it - a whole range of emotion comes up. And a whole other range of emotions come along with the faith that Jesus is very much still alive and in charge ;)

I feel the sorrow of every loved one's death that caused me anquish, (grief) and the joy after,(acceptance) only in ratio to my faith.

I'm not one for hyper-analyzing what I "feel" - it's all just a part of a "whole" - so I don't know what the ratio is or even if there is one. Not being snide - I really mean just what I wrote - don't know what the ratio is.

Question #2: Do you think that the experiences dealing with the death of others helps us to face our own death?

Maybe. I think it's certain we'll get the chance to know whether it did or not after we go through the experience of dying. No matter what, the fear element is going to be present on some level. I think we can do a lot to help each other and ourselves have a peaceful death when death comes upon us slowly in increments of the natural decaying process. And we're back to how the person dies - shock accompanies grief when it's an accidental or violent death. Dying for a cause like Jesus and warriors do certainly makes everyone take another look at "death"....you need to learn how they lived to make any sense of how they chose to die.

What a world we live in - I have to think whether a lurker on this site is responsible for the recent flurry of inquiry by strangers into where the money is that I mentioned here in this thread that my parents spent in purchasing their plots and caskets ( so much for "sharing" religious experiences on websites).

Neither "grim" nor "grimey" is the word I have for the strangers sniffing around for unearned wealth - "stupid" comes to mind - the $$ has been spent already in the PURCHASE of those items.


Edited by nameless until fused, 07 September 2008 - 03:25 PM.


#28 Carolyn

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 03:43 PM

'nuf,

There is nothing more glaring the ex-English teacher than a typo except when it is her own. So I scanned, with teacher brain, the pages in UB the "od" instead of "of" and came up wanting? Do I have an updated version?

I have been thinking that maybe the UAI Forum should have spell-check capabiity for we who need it. I realize many use the other way of typing off the board and then paste their posts. That way they tidy up the wrongs.

Obviously you didn't see Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ." That experience was never to be forgotten. It rivaled "Braveheart" for gore, blood and misery. ...but Mel in Braveheart? ;) ;) ;)

As to Jesus still living (mortal existance?) or? I don't get that. I read his material body went "poof."

Why would anyone be so rude as to be concerned with "how much?" Most of us have paid too much and few have paid too little. Suffice to say without numbers. :P

Learning HOW to live. There's a challenge. :P

LOL,

Carolyn
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#29 nameless until fused

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 04:32 PM

[quote name='Carolyn' date='Sep 7 2008, 01:43 PM' post='5192']
'nuf,

There is nothing more glaring the ex-English teacher than a typo except when it is her own. So I scanned, with teacher brain, the pages in UB the "od" instead of "of" and came up wanting? Do I have an updated version?

You might have...my copy is "First Printing 1995 - Soft Cover". I could scan the error on those pages and upload the scan, attach it in a PM to you to prove I'm not delusional ;) :P

I have been thinking that maybe the UAI Forum should have spell-check capabiity for we who need it. I realize many use the other way of typing off the board and then paste their posts. That way they tidy up the wrongs.

A spell check doesn't pick up an error like "grime" or "grim" because they are both correct spellings. Spell check doesn't know which word you wanted to use...but another person can always wonder enough to check in with the authoring person...

Obviously you didn't see Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ."

Correct - I did not see it.

That experience was never to be forgotten.

I have a very discriminating palate - especially when there's a choice involved for what I put myself through that can't be forgotten. (ooops - snooty 'nuf is back - sorry)


It rivaled "Braveheart" for gore, blood and misery. ...but Mel in Braveheart? ;) ;) :P

I can't bring myself to seeing Mel in a movie after having had the personal experience of being stuck sitting behind him in a London to NYC flight a while back. He got on the flight without taking a shower to cleanse himself of the booze/smoke/puke smell he had clinging on him. I guess he's being true to himself and shares his love of GRIME in person as well as on the silver screen. :P



As to Jesus still living (mortal existance?) or? I don't get that. I read his material body went "poof."

Jesus is alive and well as Michael of Nebadon and in charge of Urantia. Yes, he definitely has a new "body" - but he's still the same Creator Son.


Why would anyone be so rude as to be concerned with "how much?"

Why the timing of people looking into it NOW...? At some point, the 187,000 paid contractors who did mercenary activities for the USA military the past 8 years need to realize that they got all the egg-laying chickens from the Hobbits and no one has any more for them...other people have to get paid for products and services in burying the dead. Or are we going "volunteer" with disposing of dead bodies...?



Learning HOW to live. There's a challenge. :P

I'm pretty much living defensively these days - it'd be stupid to do otherwise. Caesar's on a roll.... :P

Edited by nameless until fused, 07 September 2008 - 04:34 PM.


#30 Carolyn

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Posted 07 September 2008 - 05:03 PM

'nuf,

Rather fond of anything on a roll these days. Caesar salad would be better. ;)

I have 1990 10th printng hard copy of UB, 2005 third printing of soft and a 2008 soft...so shoot me the proof.

We will stick to the Upapers and deflect some of the incoming.

Funerals or death?

LOL,

Carolyn
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#31 nameless until fused

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:18 PM

I have 1990 10th printng hard copy of UB, 2005 third printing of soft and a 2008 soft...so shoot me the proof.


Hi Carolyn,

I was being tongue in cheek with the scan and email as proof - but now that you think I was serious - here's the thing....UF knows about that error in the printing I have. As the PUBLISHER of the book - they need to retain, by law, a copy of every edition that they put out. Funny how no one knows what responsibility PUBLISHERS have in the real world....

After the breach in security, so to speak, and the phone calls to find $$$ because of the story I shared about my parents pre-arranging things on this thread - I'm not "feeling" it when it comes to continuing to talk about REMEMBERING the DEAD.

Native Americans were "savages" with no $$$ and yet they evolved a culture where the love light stays on for the departed.

We'll see how modern man evolves regarding his own inevitable death....

As for Jesus - I'm still, even after reading the UB, seeing things from a simple minded perspective - religionists of authority, when allowed to run amok as a "power" in an "tribe" will always MANUFACTURE laws that rationalize wanton abuse of the MOST pure of heart.

I guess Jesus thought we'd "get it" - but of course on dark and confused Urantia - we don't still "get it".

So to modernize things - I have a pet peeve - a pet peeve that is every bit as great as what drives animal rights groups and anti-smoking campaigns, etc etc. It just happens to be the same one as Jesus had - the USE of religion for the most UNHOLY of activities by the most wicked of men - perpetual WAR.

Believe it or not, I am a community activist - or used to be before it became a cult activity - and I was on a Planning Board back in the late 1980s - we considered how to dispose of bodies in numbers that occurred in Europe during the flu pandemic that broke out after WWI...wonder if we all realize what a luxury we have in being able to remember our departed one and be completely FREE in how we do it...? Not often in history has the will of good men prevailed...

have a great day!

#32 Carolyn

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 03:30 PM

'nuf,

One should never change the Topic when her brain is in neutral.;)

Hi Carolyn,

...wonder if we all realize what a luxury we have in being able to remember our departed one and be completely FREE in how we do it...? Not often in history has the will of good men prevailed...


We are not in this country always free to choose where the materal body is put to rest. The laws which govern death have mulitplied with the population and often we find that those laws are limiting.

Recently I read in "Discovery" magazine about "green" cemeteries. There are folks who want to limit the use of the concrete box and just let nature do the work as it did in the times before the "box" rule.

My aunt left instructions to be cremated and her ashes scattered in the desert. In California it is against the law to scatter ashes without permission and never on public lands, waterways, or the ocean. We own some desert, so her ashes were scattered there. A friend had to sneek into the old family farm (now a State Park) in the middle of night to toss his Dad. In the dark he heard a "clunk" with the throw and returning the next day discovered a metal tag, that are now the law, brightly shining with all names, numbers etc. showing. Oops!

If "they" don't hamper your dreams one way, they will another.

LOL,

Carolyn
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#33 nameless until fused

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Posted 10 September 2008 - 05:18 PM

We are not in this country always free to choose where the materal body is put to rest. The laws which govern death have mulitplied with the population and often we find that those laws are limiting.

LOL,

Carolyn


Hi Carolyn,

Think of the "laws" as "suggestions" - that's what everyone is doing these days ;)

And as difficult as enforcing the "laws" are concerning the MATERIAL aspect - the dead body - it is IMPOSSIBLE to enforce a "law" telling us how to have a party remembering the spiritual aspect - the SOUL of the dead body...

As Dave Letterman once quipped, "...pointless behaviour and plenty of it"

...concocting "laws" to govern "remembrance" - no wonder why Jesus kept it simple - a "family" meal (AKA a "party")...

You can still do that YOUR way - no party police (well, let me clarify that - no police called to your party ;) ) That's for weddings - LOL

#34 Carolyn

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Posted 11 September 2008 - 03:51 PM

...concocting "laws" to govern "remembrance" - no wonder why Jesus kept it simple - a "family" meal (AKA a "party")...

You can still do that YOUR way - no party police (well, let me clarify that - no police called to your party ;) ) That's for weddings - LOL


'nuf,

With those parting thoughts ...It has been a very good party. Let's consider it ended. ;)

Time for a new thread.

LOL,

Carolyn
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#35 nameless until fused

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Posted 12 September 2008 - 11:50 AM

'nuf,

With those parting thoughts ...It has been a very good party. Let's consider it ended. ;)

Time for a new thread.

LOL,

Carolyn


The point I take away from this conversation - and proved yesterday as some people remembered Sept 11, 2001 7 years later - is that we are on our own to figure it out - how to remember.

#36 Carolyn

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:27 PM

The point I take away from this conversation - and proved yesterday as some people remembered Sept 11, 2001 7 years later - is that we are on our own to figure it out - how to remember.


An awakening of the worn out topic or thought to be worn out...with a new experience. How do we deal with suicide? My latest experience in life.

LOL,

Carolyn
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#37 nameless until fused

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 09:35 PM

An awakening of the worn out topic or thought to be worn out...with a new experience. How do we deal with suicide? My latest experience in life.

LOL,

Carolyn


I have no idea - seems the soul had their reason for needing to leave the Urantian stage by their own hand...nothing you can do now for the departed one....help those left behind....each individual is unique and will have their own take on things....and need unique comforting...

Edited by nameless until fused, 12 November 2008 - 09:35 PM.


#38 PHIL

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 12:15 PM

An awakening of the worn out topic or thought to be worn out...with a new experience. How do we deal with suicide? My latest experience in life.

LOL,

Carolyn

reply;

The Universe model presented by the UB as I perceive it

could be needed here;

EDUCATION,UNDERSTANDING AND LOVE.

http://www.suicide.o...stics.html#2005

http://www.suicide.o...stics.html#2005













An awakening of the worn out topic or thought to be worn out...with a new experience. How do we deal with suicide? My latest experience in life.

LOL,

Carolyn


Edited by PHIL, 13 November 2008 - 12:18 PM.


#39 Carolyn

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 03:57 PM

'nuf and Phil,

I wasn't looking for a solution to my personal experience on how to deal with suicide with scientific or psychological answers. I wanted to hear about the religious/spiritual information that may be nor not be found in UB.

Both Pilate and Judas committed suicide. It seems to me that it just HAPPENED. How is that addressed by the religion of Jesus. I know how various Christian Churches handle it.

The recent suicide of a mortal not of normal mind was my adult children's father and my ex-husband. He was diagnosed as clinical insane in 1973. Before that and after he chose to become violent, cruel, abusive, selfish, self-centered, and reclusive. None of us have seen him for over 20 years and he lives in this small town. He was a tortured soul who tortured others up to his death.
.
So is this an example of a mortal long devoid of his Adjuster? IYO

Just how long would any of you spend in forgivness for such a mortal? I stopped at his death. Zero remorse. My children, too.

So with one or two friends and no family he died alone with no funeral and none to mourn.

Phil,

All that education, plenty of understanding, and too much love was all used up with ingratitude.

LOL,

Carolyn
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#40 PHIL

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 04:34 PM

Phil,

All that education, plenty of understanding, and too much love was all used up with ingratitude.

LOL,

Carolyn

REPLY;

I HEAR YOU.

I have my niece[sisters daughter] and 2 of her children living with me now

hiding out from a similar type fellow as your ex husband but his insanity comes from

2 bottles of tequila a day.

He has physically and mentally abused not only my niece but started in on the children that's when she left[in the dead of the night].

I was speaking in general obviously your case doesn't fit general.

you asked;

So is this an example of a mortal long devoid of his Adjuster? IYO

reply;

By your description I would say Yes

As the UB explains he seems to be an example of 'Dead man Walking' in the Universe Survival sense.

I read the UB as saying suicide is not as it is portrayed in the bible.

P.434 - 5 It is not the mission of these angels to defeat or to delay justice but rather to insure that unerring justice is dealt out with generous mercy in fairness to all creatures. These seraphim often function on the local worlds, commonly appearing before the referee trios of the conciliating commissions--the courts for minor misunderstandings. Many who at one time served as justice guides in the lower realms later appear as Voices of Mercy in the higher spheres and on Salvington.

P.315 - 3 In the assignment of trusts the counsel of the Imports of Time is invaluable. Time is a vital factor in everything this side of Havona and Paradise. In the final judgment before the Ancients of Days, time is an element of evidence. The Imports of Time must always afford testimony to show that every defendant has had ample time for making decisions, achieving choice.

P.447 - 4 As to the chances of mortal survival, let it be made forever clear: All souls of every possible phase of mortal existence will survive provided they manifest willingness to co-operate with their indwelling Adjusters and exhibit a desire to find God and to attain divine perfection, even though these desires be but the first faint flickers of the primitive comprehension of that "true light which lights every man who comes into the world."

P.434 - 4 2. Justice Guides. These are the angels who present the summary of evidence concerning the eternal welfare of men and angels when such matters come up for adjudication in the tribunals of a system or a planet. They prepare the statements for all preliminary hearings involving mortal survival, statements which are subsequently carried with the records of such cases to the higher tribunals of the universe and the superuniverse. The defense of all cases of doubtful survival is prepared by these seraphim, who have a perfect understanding of all the details of every feature of every count in the indictments drawn by the administrators of universe justice.



P.314 - 1 1. The Significance of Origins. The ascendant Trinitized Sons of a superuniverse government are charged with the responsibility of dealing with all issues growing out of the origin of any individual, race, or world; and the significance of origin is the paramount question in all our plans for the cosmic advancement of the living creatures of the realm. All relationships and the application of ethics grow out of the fundamental facts of origin. Origin is the basis of the relational reaction of the Gods. Always does the Conjoint Actor "take note of the man, in what manner he was born."


I think these quotes are worth looking into what they are really saying.

And there most likely are many more; these are ones I sort of remembered and were easy to find.




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