78 replies to this topic

[Bonita]

TUB tells us that "Christianity contains enough of Jesus' teachings to immortalize it". (195:10.18) I have found plenty of Jesus' teachings in the Eastern tradition and desire to offer a few of my insights with the intent to simply broaden our understanding of the religions of Urantia and to share what is true, good and beautiful within them.


You can achieve the unity of the service of God even while you render such service in accordance with the technique of your own original endowments of mind, body, and soul. p1591:7 141:5.2

You are justified by faith and fellowshipped by grace, not by fear and the self-denial of the flesh, albeit the Father's children who have been born of the spirit are ever and always masters of the self and all that pertains to the desires of the flesh. When you know that you are saved by faith, you have real peace with God. And all who follow in the way of this heavenly peace are destined to be sanctified to the eternal service of the ever-advancing sons of the eternal God. Henceforth, it is not a duty but rather your exalted privilege to cleanse yourselves from all evils of mind and body while you seek for perfection in the love of God. 1610:01

"If, then, my children, you are born of the spirit, you are forever delivered from the self-conscious bondage of a life of self-denial and watchcare over the desires of the flesh, and you are translated into the joyous kingdom of the spirit, whence you spontaneously show forth the fruits of the spirit in your daily lives; and the fruits of the spirit are the essence of the highest type of enjoyable and ennobling self-control, even the heights of terrestrial mortal attainment--true self-mastery." 1610:03

But most valuable of all, your potential of real achievement is the spirit which lives within you, and which will stimulate and inspire your mind to control itself and activate the body if you will release it from the fetters of fear and thus enable your spiritual nature to begin your deliverance from the evils of inaction by the power-presence of living faith. p1437:3 130:6.3

Edited by Bonita, 08 July 2009 - 08:35 AM.

[nameless until fused]

Adelfo,

Are you referring to the corruptive influence of the Pauline Doctrine - so to speak - that continues to tormet Roman Catholics?

I'm not sure that Greek and Russian Orthodox Christian sects are also not polluted - I am eager to learn more so please carry on!

The atonement doctrine could also be creating even more mischief than Pauline doctrines in attitudes towards the "body" than we have allowed ourselves to consider so far and, granted - I do not hang out on religious sites or in churches - but I have not heard of any "scholarly" study that considers what impact belief in the atonement doctrine has on the health and happiness of a "body"....seems to still be an untouchable "sacred cow" - the atonement doctrine...

[Jen]

Thank you for opening this thread adelfo. I look foward to learning more.

You say, "The Church Fathers have fostered fear of carnal sin and have perpetuated the practice of viewing the body as the evil temptress always at odds with the soul." Who are the "Church Fathers" you refer too? I understand there was a great diversity of views within the early Christian church, so I am not sure exactly which "Church Fathers" you are talking about.

Edited by Jen, 28 August 2008 - 11:52 PM.

[Bonita]

From them you will learn to let pressure develop stability and certainty; to be faithful and earnest and, withal, cheerful; to accept challenges without complaint and to face difficulties and uncertainties without fear. They will ask: If you fail, will you rise indomitably to try anew? If you succeed, will you maintain a well-balanced poise—a stabilized and spiritualized attitude—throughout every effort in the long struggle to break the fetters of material inertia, to attain the freedom of spirit existence? 48:6.24

The forgiveness of sin by Deity is the renewal of loyalty relations following a period of the human consciousness of the lapse of such relations as the consequence of conscious rebellion. The forgiveness does not have to be sought, only received as the consciousness of re-establishment of loyalty relations between the creature and the Creator. And all the loyal sons of God are happy, service-loving, and ever-progressive in the Paradise ascent. 985:01

Edited by Bonita, 08 July 2009 - 08:36 AM.

[nameless until fused]

Just wanted to share something that to me indicates how the KEY themes that are being upstepped by revelation are pretty much present in every Paper - I went to PAGE 48 instead of PAPER 48 - here's what was on PAGE 48 - which is yet another quote you could be using, Adelfo, as you build your case for "orthodox" christian sects like Greek and Russian:

"Thus it is that your detached, sectional, finite, gross, and highly materialistic viewpoint and the limitations inherent in the nature of your being constitute such a handicap that you are unable to see, comprehend, or know the wisdom and kindness of many of the divine acts which to you seem fraught with such crushing cruelty, and which seem to be characterized by such utter indifference to the comfort and welfare, to the planetary happiness and personal prosperity, of your fellow creatures. It is because of the limits of human vision, it is because of your circumscribed understanding and finite comprehension, that you misunderstand the motives, and pervert the purposes, of God. But many things occur on the evolutionary worlds which are not the personal doings of the Universal Father."

So, hopefully, we'll know it when we see it

Just a teensy little thought to float above and around this very interesting study - "give to God what is God's."

[Bonita]

188:4.9 All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one`s fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer`s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one`s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.

Edited by Bonita, 08 July 2009 - 08:38 AM.

[Bonita]

146:3.2 You should never forget that intolerance is the mask covering up the entertainment of secret doubts as to the trueness of one`s belief. No man is at any time disturbed by his neighbor`s attitude when he has perfect confidence in the truth of that which he wholeheartedly believes. Courage is the confidence of thoroughgoing honesty about those things which one professes to believe. Sincere men are unafraid of the critical examination of their true convictions and noble ideals.

Edited by Bonita, 08 July 2009 - 08:42 AM.

[Bill Urantia]

Adelfo,

As this is a presentation of the Eastern Orthodox traditions, it would be appropriate to indicate when you are posting your own conclusions.

As for the sentence you have in quotations. Those words are not quoted from any one specific source. It is a conclusion I arrived at after reading the Philokalia and various scholars' interpretations of the text.

This will avoid confusion in the minds of those viewing this thread. Also some snippets from the sources which caused you to form this opinion might be of help to those of us who might wish to form our own conclusions.

Bill,
Faith son

[Bonita]

89:10.2 sin must be redefined as deliberate disloyalty to Deity. There are degrees of disloyalty: the partial loyalty of indecision; the divided loyalty of confliction; the dying loyalty of indifference; and the death of loyalty exhibited in devotion to godless ideals.

Edited by Bonita, 08 July 2009 - 08:51 AM.

[Bill Urantia]

Adelfo,

As long as you do not surrender yourself willingly to the enemy, your patient endurance, combined with self-reproach, will suffice for your salvation.

I think there is much truth in the above statement. I believe it implies faith, which leads to salvation.

And, thank you for the clarification.

He who repents rightly does not imagine that it is his own effort that cancels his former sins; but through this effort he makes his peace with God.

And himself, the peace beyond understanding.

Bill,
Faith son

[Bonita]

89:10.2 Sin must be redefined as deliberate disloyalty to Deity. There are degrees of disloyalty: the partial loyalty of indecision; the divided loyalty of confliction; the dying loyalty of indifference; and the death of loyalty exhibited in devotion to godless ideals.

89:10.3 The sense or feeling of guilt is the consciousness of the violation of the mores; it is not necessarily sin. There is no real sin in the absence of conscious disloyalty to Deity.

89:10.4 The possibility of the recognition of the sense of guilt is a badge of transcendent distinction for mankind. It does not mark man as mean but rather sets him apart as a creature of potential greatness and ever-ascending glory. Such a sense of unworthiness is the initial stimulus that should lead quickly and surely to those faith conquests which translate the mortal mind to the superb levels of moral nobility, cosmic insight, and spiritual living; thus are all the meanings of human existence changed from the temporal to the eternal, and all values are elevated from the human to the divine.

89:10.5 The confession of sin is a manful repudiation of disloyalty, but it in no wise mitigates the time-space consequences of such disloyalty. But confession—sincere recognition of the nature of sin—is essential to religious growth and spiritual progress.

89:10.6 The forgivenessof sin by Deity is the renewal of loyalty relations following a period of the human consciousness of the lapse of such relations as the consequence of conscious rebellion. The forgiveness does not have to be sought, only received as the consciousness of re-establishment of loyalty relations between the creature and the Creator. And all the loyal sons of God are happy, service-loving, and ever-progressive in the Paradise ascent.

Edited by Bonita, 08 July 2009 - 08:54 AM.

[Bill Martin]

I would observe that it is impressive that the Eastern Orthodoxy recieved as much of the truth of the Master's teachings as they did from the decent through time of the Pauline Doctrines about what Jesus taught. Comparing what we know now, from study of the Papers and comparing to what Eastern scholars of the time believed is interesting. What i would like to know is if the Eastern tradition is closer to Jesus' teachings than the Roman branch of Christianity, or if such a comparison is possible.

[nameless until fused]

What i would like to know is if the Eastern tradition is closer to Jesus' teachings than the Roman branch of Christianity, or if such a comparison is possible.

I don't think it is possible to piece together enough "scholarly" works to make such a comparison because, at best, you would really only have the writings and opinions of a few individuals and not of the whole.

When religion is driven underground - like Russian Orthodox in the USSR - it became a "living faith" so right then and there that makes it more like the religion OF Jesus.

And we'll never know how they "lived" their religion during the underground years. We do know how they died with their boots on while living it (or so one could speculate that they had their boots on ).

[nameless until fused]

Thanks for the quote NUF. It's all about perspective, isn't it? One of the beauties of the growth of spiritual insight and revelation, personal and generational, is the ability to gain a cosmic perspective in which the cosmos is discovered to be friendly and good. I remember the first time I read in the UB that the atonement doctrine is basically selfish. It took me a while to put that in proper perspective and see it from a cosmic viewpoint rather than a human one.

I think that the "selfishness" that attached itself to a ritual happened over time with the atonement doctrine. Page 716 - First Human Family - "....Very early the Andonic peoples formed the habit of refraining from eating the flesh of the animal of tribal veneration. Presently, in order more suitably to impress the minds of their youths, they evolved a ceremony of reverence which was carried out about the body of one of those venerated animals; and still later on, this primitive performance developed into the more elaborate sacrificial ceremonies of their descendants. And this is the origin of sacrifices as a part of worship. This idea was elaborated by Moses in the Hebrew ritual and was preserved, in principle, by the Apostle Paul as the doctrine of atonement for sin by "shedding of blood".

As Spock would say, "Fascinating."

It is fascinating how the UPapers present Andon and Fonta - Page 717 - "...And this is the recital of the most heroic and fascinating chapter in all the history of Urantia, the story of the evolution, life struggles, death, and eternal survival of the unique parents of all mankind."

Just speculating, but we'll probably need our MORONtia time to catch up on who the heroes (from a cosmic viewpoint) were who lived among us since The Urantia Book arrived in 1934 since, just like the atonement doctrine, nothing has changed since Andon and Fonta in regards to who's story gets told...and how much of it remains "true".

Edited by nameless until fused, 31 August 2008 - 03:45 PM.