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#1 Bill Martin

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 02:36 PM

DEATH~ WHAT A WONDERFUL WAY TO EXPLAIN IT!!!!!
A sick man turned to his doctor,
as he was preparing to leave the examination room and said,
'Doctor, I am afraid to die.
Tell me what lies on the other side.'

Very quietly, the doctor said, 'I don't know.'

'You don't know?
You, a Christian man, do not know what is on the other side?'

The doctor was holding the handle of the door;
on the other side came a sound of scratching and whining,
and as he opened the door,
a dog sprang into the room
and leaped on him with an eager show of gladness.

Turning to the patient, the doctor said,
'Did you notice my dog?
He's never been in this room before.
He didn't know what was inside.
He knew nothing except that his master was here,
and when the door opened, he sprang in without fear.
I know little of what is on the other side of death,
but I do know one thing...
I know my Master is there and that is enou gh.'
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#2 Carolyn

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 12:05 PM

Dear Bill Martin,

Is it enough? Having faith in the simple explanation of dying and going straight to Jesus or will it serve us better to have faith in the more complicated as it is explained on pp. 1229-30?

Faith sister,

Carolyn





DEATH~ WHAT A WONDERFUL WAY TO EXPLAIN IT!!!!!
A sick man turned to his doctor,
as he was preparing to leave the examination room and said,
'Doctor, I am afraid to die.
Tell me what lies on the other side.'

Very quietly, the doctor said, 'I don't know.'

'You don't know?
You, a Christian man, do not know what is on the other side?'

The doctor was holding the handle of the door;
on the other side came a sound of scratching and whining,
and as he opened the door,
a dog sprang into the room
and leaped on him with an eager show of gladness.

Turning to the patient, the doctor said,
'Did you notice my dog?
He's never been in this room before.
He didn't know what was inside.
He knew nothing except that his master was here,
and when the door opened, he sprang in without fear.
I know little of what is on the other side of death,
but I do know one thing...
I know my Master is there and that is enou gh.'


"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#3 Bill Martin

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 09:02 PM

Dear Carolyn,

The big problem with Book readers is that they know too much. I believe the Revelators purposely overloaded our systems with information that couldn't possibly be useful for, in some cases, a whole universe age. That is not to say such information is useless, it feeds wonder and awe and the projection, through imagination forward in time to a more exalted state of being. That we are told all about everything coming up for the next seven transitions is useful. It helps remove the uncertainty and fear and frees us to pursue the will of God and service to our fellows with the certainty of a guaranteed future.

The faith of those not blessed with epochal revelation, is often simple and touching and very appealing to someone pondering transcendental mysteries and absolutes and triodities. In the end, it is that simple faith which really makes you real, which adds value and meaning to experience, that makes a life fulfilling and worth living. We will long be dependent upon faith if we are to progress safely in this wonderful and friendly universe.


Love,


Bill Martin
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#4 Carolyn

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 10:20 AM

Dear Bill Martin,

In the simple faith of death with life after there are the hooks of fear, sadness, and guilt. The place of fire and brimestone has equal, if not more, presence in that plan. You either go to heaven or straight to hell. You have to accept that God let his son die so he could atone for our sins. You must accept the primitive result of those beliefs which were erroneously passed on as the religions about Jesus and not of Jesus. The enormity of the lack of love, mercy, and kindness that is the real resurrection can only bring sadness and questions. As I listen to Christians trying to resolve their incongruous beliefs, I realize more and more how much they need a Father who is love and a Creator who was a man.

Knowing the plan of ascention is so much more beautiful.

This isn't arrogant thinking nor intolerance, it is love for my brothers and sister everywhere.

Faith sister,

Carolyn



Dear Carolyn,

The big problem with Book readers is that they know too much. I believe the Revelators purposely overloaded our systems with information that couldn't possibly be useful for, in some cases, a whole universe age. That is not to say such information is useless, it feeds wonder and awe and the projection, through imagination forward in time to a more exalted state of being. That we are told all about everything coming up for the next seven transitions is useful. It helps remove the uncertainty and fear and frees us to pursue the will of God and service to our fellows with the certainty of a guaranteed future.

The faith of those not blessed with epochal revelation, is often simple and touching and very appealing to someone pondering transcendental mysteries and absolutes and triodities. In the end, it is that simple faith which really makes you real, which adds value and meaning to experience, that makes a life fulfilling and worth living. We will long be dependent upon faith if we are to progress safely in this wonderful and friendly universe.


Love,


Bill Martin


"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#5 Bill Martin

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 10:27 PM

Carolyn,


Fact: We die.

Truth: There is no death, only everlasting growth and service in our Father's family. Our privelege is to reveal these truths, these liberating, life changing realities, to our fellows trapped by dogmas and doctrines that enslave them. Our job is to get in there with these religions of authority and share our savor and leaven the truth these believers DO have that darkness and error will be crowded out of their minds by living truth.

Love,


Bill
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#6 Carolyn

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 12:50 PM

Dear Bill Martin,

Obviously you are a better personality than I. Sitting in a meeting where everyone is tuned in to the deary, demeaning, non-loving dogma of an institution, is a waste of my time. However, listening to my dear friends who all belong to one or the other of the cystalized cults always gives me the opportunity to add a bit of reality to some partial truth they might believe, without taking that from them, and leading them with baby steps.

I find the three deaths of Personality fascinating. p. 1229 "1. Spiritual (soul) death." Mortals still walking around but their Thought Adjusters have abandoned them. Perhaps could be "the walking dead?" p. 1230 "2. Intellectual (mind) death." The essential mind circuits have been destroyed in those dear mortals suffering from stroke, accident, or disease. And #3 is the "We die." of which you write below. "Physical (body and mind) death."

What is your finding and experience on any of these?

Faith sister,

Carolyn





Carolyn,


Fact: We die.

Truth: There is no death, only everlasting growth and service in our Father's family. Our privlege is to reveal these truths, these liberating, life changing realities, to our fellows trapped by dogmas and doctrines that enslave them. Our job is to get in there with these religions of authority and share our savor and leaven the truth these believers DO have that darkness and error will be crowded out of their minds by living truth.

Love,


Bill


"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 05:40 PM

Interesting thread...

#8 Bill Martin

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 05:57 PM

dear Carolyn,

i have lived the life and nothing is more creepy or downright hollow, than realizing the person talking to you has no soul. I believe I have encountered such empty- minded entities ( i use that word because i don't know what to call them) on more than one occasion. It seems , as a young U Book reader before my personality "formed" these zombies kept turning up in my life. Usually they were trying to kill me. Like a cartoon, I would look in place where their eyes were and saw little but darkness, like only plus signs where the eyes should be. (I don't care to showcase evil, but am fully ready to expand and reveal these experiences, should you care to know them.)

I have encountered pure iniquity ( and never had to go to war for it to find me) the kind of abject blackness that casts no shadow in the presence of light. God must have had some use for me, (i always think) for i should surely be dead but for that grace.

I do believe that the adjusters stay and endure the clammy and sickening presence of pure and unadulterated evil, even after the soul death of their subjects. (Please somebody correct me if I am in error)

P.1183 - 2 Thought Adjusters have no relaxation from the time of their bestowal until the day of their release to start for Divinington upon the natural death of their mortal subjects



There are three "deaths" but for the spirituallyreborn there is no sting.

Love,

Bill
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#9 nameless until fused

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 08:49 PM

I do believe that the adjusters stay and endure the clammy and sickening presence of pure and unadulterated evil, even after the soul death of their subjects. (Please somebody correct me if I am in error)

Love,

Bill



They do NOT stick around - page 1229 - "....thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. But this release of the Adjuster in no way affects the duties of the personal or group seraphim concerned with that Adjuster-abandoned individual...."

The seraphim continue their work. But it's interesting to note that even a person who reached the third circle and got assigned a personal seraphim could sincerely and completely choose to not survive while still here on Urantia. The vast majority of us will get the promised chance to make up our mind after we have a better set of "facts" on MORONtia World One (sorry Carolyn, couldn't resist ;) )

#10 Bill Martin

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 09:35 AM

Thanks N.U.F.,

That explains the "walking dead."

Bill
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#11 4evr

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 10:22 AM

Hi everyone...
P.1229...Spiritual death.... very interesting...
I wonder if we could elaborate on what might constitute this...
with examples...
Also seems to imply that one of these mortals might have a personalized seraphim.
...no room for repentance?
Would there be any corilation between this and the biblical statement ....help me here...
I cant remember chap/verse,but something about turning away after one has ...[been born againe maybe?]

thanks ...Reed

#12 Carolyn

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 12:44 PM

Dear Bill Martin, Reed, and 'nuf,

Bill did give an example of what he experienced as "spiritual/soul" death.

May I give my personal experiences as well. There should be no judgement placed by a mortal on another as that is the work of Diety, but we might conjecture about those mortals with whom we may have had such an experience. This IS shaky ground.

For the past 45 years there has been two mortals who reenter our lives to reap havoc with hatred, vengence, guile, and to do harm. Both communicate with each other by mail. Neither has spoken personally in over 26 years, but send representatives to work through others who might have the opportunity to carry this evil to us in their names. Because these two have chosen this as a way of life in all areas of their lives and have actually influenced so many to follow them, I would conjecture that these two mortals if not "spiritually/soul" dead must be in jeopardy of such. The look in the eyes of such mortals is an empty, dark one. IMO

There are documented in UB the criteria for repentance. It isn't acceptable after a certain period of time or circumstances?

Perhaps someone who knows the verse/# you seek can better answer that part of your post, Reed. Nice to read you again.

Faith sister,


Carolyn



Hi everyone...
P.1229...Spiritual death.... very interesting...
I wonder if we could elaborate on what might constitute this...
with examples...
Also seems to imply that one of these mortals might have a personalized seraphim.
...no room for repentance?
Would there be any corilation between this and the biblical statement ....help me here...
I cant remember chap/verse,but something about turning away after one has ...[been born againe maybe?]

thanks ...Reed


"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#13 nameless until fused

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Posted 27 August 2008 - 02:51 PM

Yikes - this is making a quick turn into a myriad of individual personal problems/encounters we think we have had with "walking dead"...

Let's slow down a bit - we'll get to everyone.

Big picture in UB - it is our choice and our choice alone - whether we want to continue to ascend through the universes. The whole galaxy of personalities responsible for justice bend over backwards to make sure a person has all the TRUE information needed to make a REAL choice. It is noted in the UB that people might not WANT to continue - who knows why? I speculate that the FACT that it's a billion year journey that is all about perfecting how to be of service to each other is NOT an attractive adventure to everyone. They could say, "no thanks".

So people here on Urantia COULD really grok that (especially if they had advanced to the point of having a personal seraphim) and they make the real decision of, "no thanks".

So the personal seraphim continue their work (different focus, they might be responsible for curtailing the damage an adjuster abandoned individual wrecks on other souls) but adjusters don't hang around to be tortured by unreality (walking dead).

I always find it helpful to read up in the UPapers how Jesus handled certain situations for inspiration in "worshipful problem solving". Jesus did note that the way he would handle a person with some kind of a soul and a person with no soul would be different. If you can't find this episode in the UPapers, let me know - I'll look it up....

Now all that being said - I was hoping to get into a conversation about ME ME ME ;) that is simply about funeral ceremonies and how to bring in "spiritual power" to the ceremony to help all the broken-hearted and grieving people. Anyone interested in starting a thread about having better funerals?

And, Carolyn, my professional enemies have always remained hidden from my eyes. I think they are scared of me ;) I would be if I were them. However, they ARE growing in power and the damage they are inflicting is greater...I'm divining from this thread that I am not alone in this observation about their ever increasing bold aggression....Idealists cannot allow themselves to be eliminated by walking dead....

The IDEA is that if you fill your life time/space with enough that is real (truth beauty goodness - aka cosmic love) what is "unreal" will have no place to set up shop. We have "courage" as a MIND attribute - it'll need to be accessed. And if you need a drama queen to fill some of the space with mirth - I CAN jump up on the table with something akin to Norma Rae holding up a "UNION" card - every time I pulled that kind of stunt in the past, I had the whole crowd with me....it would be a privilege and a whole lotta fun to help you shoo off "religionists of authority" hell bent on torturing the meek and pure of heart.

So anyone want to talk about better funerals? A lot depends on who died - was it a child, young adult, person in prime of life regarding responsibility for others, an old one - and how they died - accident of time, prolonged illness, sudden heart attack, murder, war, peaceful passing away in sleep....it's been non stop for me with all of the above and more since 1999....the "young" outweigh the "old" by far and that is not very "natural"....hence a social re-organization IS happening, unofficially....

For the time being, no fusion - but certainly we can bring in more of what is a fusion celebration on NORMAL planets into our remembrance ceremony (funeral) of the life that has moved on up...maybe...? I've made the suggestion a few times recently and found no resistance to the acceptance of having a celebration of the deceased's life where people can participate instead of being led in prayer by someone with "religious authority". I wish I could find the person that shared her "celebration" story with me as we "passed by" each other in NYC - she was standing in line for a cab fresh from attending her father's funeral....part of the charm of NYC - the conversations you can have with total strangers who spontaneously become your best friend for that moment in time when you collide into each other. Up until that conversation with the stanger, I thought all christian sects had the same kind of funeral - but I don't believe I ever even found out which "religion" she belonged to....anyway, seed was planted....a decade before I ever heard of the UB....there is a lot of spiritual power in how we collectively give "death" its dues....

Edited by nameless until fused, 27 August 2008 - 07:59 PM.


#14 StarStudent

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 05:21 PM

Very interesting thread here... and thought provoking too!
But setting aside all that I've read in the UB and other books too,
I KNOW from my own very real personal experiences that Death is
attributed to the body only. Much like when ya blow the motor
in your car, it's dead, the car ends up in the wrecking yard, and
you step into another car that transports you along your
journey or path in life... You are not your "body", you continue
onward after the death of the body is all...
As for personal experiences, I have many~many stories to share
about experiencing interactions with spiritual matters, The "Thought
Adjuster" as described in the UB is as true as True gets... and God
is a very real individual intelligence, for lack of better words to describe
Him...
I can really relate to what is written in the scriptures about the Kingdom
of God is within and Now... A person doesn't have to wait until they
die a physcial death to experience or interact with God.
There is some preparations that has to be before one can come
to the inner doorway of God's Kingdom though, such as cleaning up
our bodies, [stop abusing our bodies], and then becoming completely
subservent to God, to totally surrender all or cares and life to His Will.
This "Motive" to come to God's Kingdom or finding or communion with God,
has to be true and pure, as God knows our every thought and motive..
"Communion" or "Meditation" is the action of finding an interacting relationship
with God..
I think that the scripture: Seek God with all your mind, heart and being would
be right to describe the path to God. Also: I stand at the door and knock, whoever
hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to be with him.
And again: Be Still...and know that I am God.
[I'm sure there are many UB references to having an interacting relationship
with God too.]
At first, when you start this daily meditation, you will find it quite difficult
to focus, as every few minutes, you thoughts will want to jump to
different things, It's not that easy to shut your eyes, turn off your outer
senses of taste, smell, touch & etc. to go deeper within, as naturally
the mind is too use to being in the fast lane of the physical interaction
within the world... there is a veil between the Spiritual world and the Physical.
At first you might only be able to spend 15 min. trying to "focus" upon
communion with Our Father, but daily time spent is mandatory to preserve
the continuing path to finding a very real interaction with God too.
15 min. perhaps at first, but within a month your "Focus" will strengthen and
you will find an hour in meditation is almost too short, after a couple of months
you will be very close to finding the doorway deep within you... [You'll know it
when you come to that point] Once you've come to the doorway, there you'll
wait and simply surrender even your cares of life unto the Father, and your
Love will begin to grow, and it won't be long until the Father will make Himself
known unto to... After which, you'll never again have to have "Faith" that
God is real, as from your interaction with Him, your faith will become "Knowing".
As for the gifts of the spirit, they simply come with the interactions with God.
but should you fall away from your relationship with God, so too will your spiritual
gifts be removed.
It is good to become a part of universal prayer, of sending Love and Peace out into
the world, but only if you are also mindful that never should one attempt to increase
the tender balance of these effects within prayer. Though one might think that the world
needs more Love and Peace, the joining to this positive flow must not be disrupted
with mismanagement of ones gifts.
Again, I share this with you not from what I've read, but from personal experience.
God is everywhere, and within all of us, and truly are we all His children.

#15 Rick Warren

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 05:58 AM

God is everywhere, and within all of us, and truly are we all His children.


Welcome Star Student,

One small spiritual experience is worth a million words, eh?

Fruit, love and peace. Rick

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:31 PM

God is everywhere, and within all of us, and truly are we all His children.


Welcome Star Student,

One small spiritual experience is worth a million words, eh?

Fruit, love and peace. Rick






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