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#1 Rick Warren

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 05:53 AM

...Jesus fully understood how difficult it is for men to break with their past. He knew how human beings are swayed by the preacher's eloquence, and how the conscience responds to emotional appeal as the mind does to logic and reason, but he also knew how far more difficult it is to persuade men to disown the past.... P.1722 - §4

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#2 Bill Martin

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 07:16 AM

Dear Rick,

Can you tell me what that means? to "disown the past?"

Bill Martin
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#3 Carolyn

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 10:59 AM

Dear Bill Martin,

I know you were asking Rick but I wanted to answer from my experience.

To disown means "To repudiate" according to Webster's dictionary. Repudiate means "To reject he validity of" according to the same. having been born in a specific church I was a member by ancestral mandate. As an adult I chose to believe in the validity of that church until I began to experience the fact that some of the beliefs were inconsistant with truth. As I began to read outside material, which was forbidden, I found that over time I had discovered for myself that there was very little validity in that particular religious teaching. I then asked to have my name removed from the membership. I had "disowned" my membership and disowned a very false religion as well. I had "disowned the past."

So I think that to "disown" is to begin to search for truth in another place than where you were in the God-conscious search for truth, beauty, and goodness. Where would I find what I just wrote. It was never in the immature religious dogmas of any church I studied over the years. It is found in The Urantia Book.
In order to find The Urantia Book you must first disown (reject the validity of) all other attempts to find religious truth in a church and by faith begin the long study of "the religion of personal experience."

"The hope of modern Christianity is that it should cease to sponsor the social systems and industrial policies of the Western civilization while it humbly bows itself before the cross it so valiantly extols, there to learn anew from Jesus of Nazareth the greatest truths mortal man can ever hear_the living gospel of the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man." p. 2086

One will never find the "greatest truths" without reading with faith, from beginning to end, The Urantia Book; the Fifth Epochal Revelation. It is true that you cannot "play on both teams at one time." Your mind will not let the mortal you do that.

I know you know this already, but I thought it timely to reiterate.

Your faith sister,

Carolyn

Dear Rick,

Can you tell me what that means? to "disown the past?"

Bill Martin


"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#4 Rick Warren

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 04:33 AM

Thanks Carolyn,

For the technical answer, well defined. Bill, the personal answer, in computer terms, means deleting the old useless damaging programs and installing the new. In common religious terms, it probably means being born again.

Jesus knew it's so hard because we installed these programs with emotional cement and, know it or not, consider them crucial to survival. When they are threatened, fear strengthens and guards them. Usually I have to blast the past out of its assumed proprietary entrenchment one chunk at a time, you find this so too?

We seem to be designed so instant change is all but impossible. Maybe that's good when one considers what devastation might be wrought were we able to dismiss or install our programs willy-nilly, replace them with the sentiment du jour...

Oh the tribulations, rw

#5 Rita Schaad

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 08:09 AM

Thanks Carolyn,

For the technical answer, well defined. Bill, the personal answer, in computer terms, means deleting the old useless damaging programs and installing the new. In common religious terms, it probably means being born again.

Jesus knew it's so hard because we installed these programs with emotional cement and, know it or not, consider them crucial to survival. When they are threatened, fear strengthens and guards them. Usually I have to blast the past out of its assumed proprietary entrenchment one chunk at a time, you find this so too?

We seem to be designed so instant change is all but impossible. Maybe that's good when one considers what devastation might be wrought were we able to dismiss or install our programs willy-nilly, replace them with the sentiment du jour...

Oh the tribulations, rw



#6 Rita Schaad

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 08:35 AM

Dear Carolyn, Bill and Rick

just want to pick up on Ricks 'deletion of programs'..... yes, luckily change for us is taking more time than we would like.

turning over a page and starting new is the task that we are facing when considering our eternal adventure, it's those challenges and decision/choices that the revelators urge us to do in order to lead us onward.
But - the past is a very important sequence and stepping stone in this process and as much as we need to leave the old behind, we better make sure - before we do - that we leave in an orderly manner, have our desk tidied up, done all the chores......
When reading about the psychic circles I understand that we can not advance unless all the requirements are fulfilled - whatever they might be. That is why I find it so important to live in the present, do the little things well and when the time is ripe, the transition will be smooth.

Jesus knew all this form his own experience as well -how many time did he get tempting offers but waited until his time had come.
Well, I'm a complete attachment junky and it takes me ages to act out the inner promptings - but I'm soo not in a hurry. Seeing the life at a snails pace is infinitely rewarding! I'm sure Jesus would agree....

Rita

#7 Carolyn

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:04 PM

Dear Rita, and all,

I understand the snails pace. It would seem that the slow crawl in decisions made in the technical answer to which Rick referred took but a mere 55 years. We do have time but how much in mortality before we "miss the boat?"

Time is interesting: "...Too slow for those who wait;...too fast for those who?...but for those who LOVE, time is not."

As I grow older, time is rushing and a sense of losing time is beckoning. Time with TUB is much more intense.

Your faith sister,

Carolyn
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#8 Rita Schaad

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 04:36 AM

Dear Carolyn
I agree about the speed of the passing time - a couple of friends wondered as well today - how come the years go quicker each time round.
But you know what I've started doing - rather than getting upset of not to be able to manage all the things worth doing in precious earth time I'll make mental notes in 'my Mansion world Diary' and very much hope that I'll have the chance to catch up on missed experiences and thrills of similar kinds - that sort of eases the 'loss factor'.
Let's savour every minute and be as effective and purposeful as possible.

be of good cheer - Rita

#9 Carolyn

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 01:14 PM

Dear Bill Martin, rick, Rita, and all,

Adding more of the quote helps to understand it.

p. 1722 “Mary and Jesus’ brothers though that Jesus did not understand them, that he had lost interest in them, little realizing that it was they who failed to understand Jesus. Jesus fully understood how difficult it is for men to break with their past. He knew how human beings are swayed by the preacher’s eloquence, and how the conscience responds to emotional appeal as the mind does to logic and reason, but he also knew how far more difficult it is to persuade men to disown the past.
It is forever true that all who may think they are misunderstood or not appreciated have in Jesus a sympathizing friend and an understanding counselor. He had warned his apostles that a man’s foes may be they of his own household, but he hardly realized how near this prediction would come to apply to his own experience. Jesus did not forsake his earth family to do his Father’s work__ they forsook him.”


Carolyn
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#10 Bill Martin

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:38 AM

Dear God Children,

CAROLYN


I see how releasing the hold of religions of authority can liberate the soul. Early on, at age sixteen, i was searching earnestly for the truth. i was a practitioner of Kriya Yoga and all things esoteric, thinking that the "secret" could be found and set me "free." I honestly was searching for reality
in all i did thinking that if I could just find a guru, they would "lead me into all truth." I never did find that person. What i did was come into possesion of a book which told me that there lives within me the "purest spirit reality in the known universe" that will lead me into all truth. I had found my guru, living within patiently waiting.

RITA


You are wise to remind us not to discard the valuable and meaninful from the teachings of the past. This especially applies to truth.

P.1109 - §2 Because your world is generally ignorant of origins, even of physical origins, it has appeared to be wise from time to time to provide instruction in cosmology. And always has this made trouble for the future. The laws of revelation hamper us greatly by their proscription of the impartation of unearned or premature knowledge. Any cosmology presented as a part of revealed religion is destined to be outgrown in a very short time. Accordingly, future students of such a revelation are tempted to discard any element of genuine religious truth it may contain because they discover errors on the face of the associated cosmologies therein presented.




AND speaking of the very real change in the rate of time as years pass by more and more quickly, we are reminded this is naturally and normally part of maturity. Your "time units" are getting longer:


P.1295 - §6 Patience is exercised by those mortals whose time units are short; true maturity transcends patience by a forbearance born of real understanding.


P.1295 - §7 To become mature is to live more intensely in the present, at the same time escaping from the limitations of the present. The plans of maturity, founded on past experience, are coming into being in the present in such manner as to enhance the values of the future.
P.1295 - §8 The time unit of immaturity concentrates meaning-value into the present moment in such a way as to divorce the present of its true relationship to the
P.1296 - §0 not-present--the past-future. The time unit of maturity is proportioned so to reveal the co-ordinate relationship of past-present-future that the self begins to gain insight into the wholeness of events, begins to view the landscape of time from the panoramic perspective of broadened horizons, begins perhaps to suspect the nonbeginning, nonending eternal continuum, the fragments of which are called time.



I am in a transition phase in my own life as regards the passive and active applications of time. "My time has come" I guess i can say and managing time without having to grind out a living present certain real challenges. One foremost presents adjusting the external time constraint to the internal guide of living. Consciously matching my attention to the real rate of change. In the real terms of my new life as a sailor on S/V SageofSalem, it means slowing my life down to the pace of the wind and weather. Just as in life, change occurs suddenly, and then it is appropriate to use time dilation (expanding the time consciousness by a relaxed focus of awareness to change perception), in effect slowing down time, as you did as a child playing on a sunny and eternal summer evening when you forgot everything except what you were doing and your Mom never called you in because it was dark.

This speeding up of time is what happens. As ascenders attain milestones on their path to Paradise and look back and compare their time units with those of the nativity sphere, a steady progression is evident. One we all remember is on Uversa " a day is a thousand years" back here on Urantia. To the first stage spirits, newly embraced by Michael and graduated from Salvington, the affairs of Urantia may seem distant and remote from the scope of reality they enjoy in the minor sector adventures. To them "up there" we may seem like teeming microbes in a petri dish "down here."

But we are faithful microbes with a supernal destiny.



RICK

You reflect, "Usually I have to blast the past out of its assumed proprietary entrenchment one chunk at a time, you find this so too?"


My presumption, at times, especially early on in my experience with revelation, was to assume that EVERYTHING I KNOW IS WRONG. This was in reaction to my immature mind being presented 2200 pages of plain unvarnished Truth. I could not digest it all at once Thinking to take a "Tabula Rasa" and sweep away millions of years of hardwired evolution by an exercise of willfull action,I tried rewriting my being out of whole cloth. But after decades of living, when older and wiser (more experienced at least) I realized i didn't have every right answer and i wasn't "ten foot tall and bulletproof"and that life is really a garden and only those values grown in patience and nurtured in wisdom endure to become a lasting part of the eternal soul. In it's irrepressible struggle to reach light, a dandelion weed breaks through a concrete sidewalk, even a seed sown on bad ground will yield fruit when nourished with love and sustained by the water of life. Surely this was true in my life.


Carpe Deum
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#11 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 10:05 AM

Speaking of the past, got me to thinking about the real, history of Urantia. The subject comes up in study group from time to time. And when it does, we recall reading about the panoramic "video" (or whatever you want to call it) on Jerusem where someday we can view the real history of Urantia.

Page 528: "8. THE JERUSEM TRIANGLES

"The purely local and routine affairs of Jerusem are directed from the one hundred triangles. These units are clustered around the ten marvelous structures domiciling the local administration of Jerusem. The triangles are surrounded by the panoramic depiction of the system headquarters history. At present there is an erasure of over two standard miles in this circular story. This sector will be restored upon the readmission of Satania into the constellation family. Every provision for this event has been made by the decrees of Michael, but the tribunal of the Ancients of Days has not yet finished the adjudication of the affairs of the Lucifer rebellion. Satania may not come back into the full fellowship of Norlatiadek so long as it harbors archrebels, high created beings who have fallen from light into darkness."

Looks like we'll have to wait until the adjudication is finished to get the parts that have been erased. And since Urantia is a planet involved in rebellion. . . . more will be revealed to us on the Mansion Worlds.

Have a nice day.

Meredith

#12 Rita Schaad

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 08:06 AM

Dear Carolynand all

- this is really helpful to have the whole quote - how different the view becomes. Just to show that we always need to see sayings in the context and situation they were uttered.
Certain phrases jump out especially - like - that we have in Jesus a sympathizing friend and an understanding counselor. WOW - we're not alone ever again. And also,what an example to repeat in our own lives with others.

Anyway - what the whole story has reveald for me now is the family-cultura that pervaides so strongly with individuals. To conform is to secure to a certain extent the home-comfort, the peaceful agreement with the fold - no friction, no tension.
But that kind of thing is holding us back from the unique choices we have to make when following our inner voice, the leading of tour very own Thought Adjuster.
Such choices never are as difficult as when we cross the long adhered to rules of the tribe.

Maybe to 'disown the past' means that we are taking the step of 'dying a death of transformation' , leaving the old skin behind, be reborn into the spirit of a new pattern, become helpless as a babe - solely depending on the truth we discern within.

That is, as Jesus understood so well, very difficult and painfull for us humans, since all our striving reaches for security and familiarity and not for uncertainty in faith and utter stepping out into no-man's land.

Makes me truly think how lonley 'the Frontier' can be at times.

Rita

#13 Bill Martin

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 10:31 AM

dear Rita,

i was looking in the book and thinking about your post and I looked up Jesus, forsake and family thinking in reference to you saying how we "have a friend in Jesus and will never be alone and how Jesus so carefully and skillfully revealed the Father at the same time as he was such a good Hebrew and how he avoided contravening the mores of his culture and as i went to reference the book look what popped up...


P.1722 - §5 It is forever true that all who may think they are misunderstood or not appreciated have in Jesus a sympathizing friend and an understanding counselor. He had warned his apostles that a man's foes may be they of his own household, but he had hardly realized how near this prediction would come to apply to his own experience. Jesus did not forsake his earth family to do his Father's work--they forsook him. Later on, after the Master's death and resurrection, when James became connected with the early Christian movement, he suffered immeasurably
P.1723 - §0 as a result of his failure to enjoy this earlier association with Jesus and his disciples.


isn't that amazing when you were just speaking about whole quotes and contexts?


Your earthly revelation brother


Bill
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#14 Carolyn

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 12:15 PM

Dear Bill, Rita, and rick,

Just one short sentence sent us back to the book and to our own experiences so we could learn more. I too was reading in sequence at the time I read this paragraph and it was the topic of discussion. I don't think that is a coincidence, Bill. Do you?

From this paper and in particular from this paragraph was an answer to why 2-believe had been disowned by former friends, many in our family, and a church. There we found a solace in the experience of Jesus and a message that we too can survive and move on to the cosmic realizations and realities. We do feel less alone. All of this "disowning" only freed us.

The opposite intent of those who disown, shun, and use other similar types of punishment is thwarted by the teachings and experience of Jesus of Nazareth.

We no longer have to fear such reprisals for reading TUB. Once again, I repeat, we are free.

p. 2091 "Jesus never argued about the fatherhood of God or the brotherhood of men; he was a living illustration of the one and a profound demonstration of the other."

p. 2088 "The Master's entire life was consistently conditioned by this living faith, this sublime religious experience."



Your faith sister,

Carolyn
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#15 Rita Schaad

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 08:47 AM

Dear fellow readers
it is a pleasure to share 'Jesus Thots' with you

May there be many blessings at this Easter Holiday -time for all of you and your Families.

love Rita

#16 Rick Warren

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 04:50 AM

To the Swiss family Schaad,

To all downunder (and upover), hoping/prayng/wishing for expansion of Michael's transcendent love on the occasion of the celebration of his human graduation and morontia revivification. May his spirit grace and fraternal affection envelop the whole Urantia family and lift us one bit closer everyday, up to that satisfying divine light the Gods would have us see, be and live.

Good Friday, good Easter my siblings.

#17 Carolyn

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Posted 23 March 2008 - 10:14 AM

Dear all,

p. 2017 "Jesus lived and died for a whole universe, not just for the races of this one world. While the mortals of the realms had salvation even before Jesus lived and died on Urantia, it is nevertheless a fact that his bestowal on this world greatly illuminated the way of salvation; his death did much to make forever plain the certainty of mortal survival after death in the flesh.
Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer, or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of the worlds of the universe of Nebadon."


"All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one's fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer's chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to LOVE and, therefore, serve one's fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men."

Happy Easter.

Your faith sister,

Carolyn
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#18 Rick Warren

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 03:01 PM

.



...When Jesus talked about "the living God," he referred to a personal Deity--the Father in heaven. The concept of the personality of Deity facilitates fellowship; it favors intelligent worship; it promotes refreshing trustfulness. Interactions can be had between nonpersonal things, but not fellowship. The fellowship relation of father and son, as between God and man, cannot be enjoyed unless both are persons. Only personalities can commune with each other, albeit this personal communion may be greatly facilitated by the presence of just such an impersonal entity as the Thought Adjuster.... P.31 - §1

~JesusThots~






.

#19 Rick Warren

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:04 AM

.



...Having settled his policy concerning all personalities of all classes of his created intelligences, so far as this could be determined in view of the inherent potential of his new status of divinity, Jesus now turned his thoughts toward himself. What would he, now the fully self-conscious creator of all things and beings existent in this universe, do with these creator prerogatives in the recurring life situations which would immediately confront him when he returned to Galilee to resume his work among men? In fact, already, and right where he was in these lonely hills, had this problem forcibly presented itself in the matter of obtaining food. By the third day of his solitary meditations the human body grew hungry. Should he go in quest of food as any ordinary man would, or should he merely exercise his normal creative powers and produce suitable bodily nourishment ready at hand? And this great decision of the Master has been portrayed to you as a temptation--as a challenge by supposed enemies that he "command that these stones become loaves of bread...." P.1517 - §3



#20 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 09:20 AM

P.1874 - §4 Jesus spread good cheer everywhere he went. He was full of grace and truth. His associates never ceased to wonder at the gracious words that proceeded out of his mouth. You can cultivate gracefulness, but graciousness is the aroma of friendliness which emanates from a love-saturated soul.






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