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#1 admin

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 02:28 PM

I am starting this topic to give everyone a place to air out why another member should be removed from the forum. If you find someone you cannot stand or agree with and that you feel should be banned from this forum, here is the place to do it. Give your reasons for this person's removal. Having this out in the open gives the person to be removed a chance to defend himself or herself.

The forum staff has received many removal requests. We are understaffed, we are all volunteers with jobs and with other projects. The most time-consuming part of maintaining the forum from my perspective is dealing with removal requests. The staff decides after many discussions whether to approve someone's request. Most of my time is spent dealing with members who complain about other members. 'Live and let live' does not seem to work here for too long. Soon someone comes along who knows everything, who is always right, and who cannot tolerate ambiguity.

You are free not to read or respond to posts by someone you consider an idiot. Many may agree with you, but is the majority always right? The forum staff tries to come to a fair decision. The question is did we do the right thing? With your insight and with your help, perhaps we can make better decisions. I am hoping the forum does not become too narrow that it only includes people who think a certain way.

Thank you all.
admin

#2 Joe DiMaggio

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 03:54 PM

Well OK since you asked . . .

I can only assume that this topic's initiation results from my complaints about robert from Australia and my requests that he be permanently removed from the forum. Fair enough.

I take this position for the following reasons in order of importance:

  • He as already been suspended twice for exhibiting the exact type of behavior he has exhibited in the past 24 hours. How many strikes does he get?
  • His argumentative, aggressive, insensitive tone in these posts discourages other members from contributing. We do not come here to argue about blatantly obvious concepts in the Urantia Book.
  • His repetetive, lengthy, poorly written, logically unattractive, and factually inaccurate posts clutter the forum with nonsense and hostility despite numerous attempts by other members to call attention to this fact and offer suggestions for improvement.
  • Other members have voiced similar observations and concerns.
Please note that my position is based soley on his exhibited behavior. I am not casting any dispersions on him as a person.

Regards,
Joe DiMaggio

#3 Bill Martin

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 01:22 PM

Dear Admin,


This is brilliant. Let the gladiators sally forth while we, in the cheap seats, exercise our thumbs.

Problem Solving/Entertainment


Bill
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#4 PHIL

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 02:33 PM

Hi Joe;

you wrote;

There was this guy, you see, who lived during the early part of the twentieth century who, in my opinion, was very much attuned to his Adjuster and who also knew Dr. Sadler. He even devoted a few pages to him in one of his books which has become one of the most read books ever written. That guy is Dale Carnegie and he suggested many things to help us deal with each other effectively and to communicate our ideas effectively--in 1936.

* Don't criticize, condemn, or complain.
* Give honest, sincere appreciation.
* Arouse in the other person an eager want.
* Be a good listener, encourage others to talk about themselves.
* Become genuinely interested in other people.
* Make the other person feel important--and do it sincerely.
* The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.
* Show respect for the other person's opinion. Never say "You're wrong".
* If you are wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.
* Begin in a friendly way.
* Try to honestly see things in the other person's point of view.
* Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires.
* Appeal to nobler motives.

You have yet to follow any of these why put expectations on Robert or anyone else?

reply;

I have went back and read your last 20 or so post.

90 percent are complaining self righteous disdain for Robert's post and Robert
and when you wrote;

'Please note that my position is based solely on his exhibited behavior. I am not casting any dispersions on him as a person.'

You insulted the intelligence everyone who has read your post.

You also complained[edited]

"His argumentative, aggressive, insensitive tone"

sounds like your reply's to Robert TO ME.

The rest of your post are either self righteous preaching
against your brothers[and Urantia] and their worthiness as in the parable "Pharisee and the Sinner"

or pure obvious fluff and lack of any Cosmic thinking.

But that is how I see your post just as you see Robert's post differently than me.

There may be others on this list that need to hear what you have to say so who am I to
request you be stopped? ;)

You can dish it but can you take it. ;)

I say your behavior is as bad as Robert's by your own standards.

But hey I wouldn't want you banned you have a right to be you
your actions,words or behaviors can't hurt me or any on this list in any way
if we are true faith sons.

I didn't want to write this because I hate pointing out the obvious :P
or being anything other than kind to my fellows.

[Plus I know I may face the wrath of 'The Teacher'] ;)

But I'm not perfect[yet]


PHIL






Well OK since you asked . . .

I can only assume that this topic's initiation results from my complaints about robert from Australia and my requests that he be permanently removed from the forum. Fair enough.

I take this position for the following reasons in order of importance:

  • He as already been suspended twice for exhibiting the exact type of behavior he has exhibited in the past 24 hours. How many strikes does he get?
  • His argumentative, aggressive, insensitive tone in these posts discourages other members from contributing. We do not come here to argue about blatantly obvious concepts in the Urantia Book.
  • His repetetive, lengthy, poorly written, logically unattractive, and factually inaccurate posts clutter the forum with nonsense and hostility despite numerous attempts by other members to call attention to this fact and offer suggestions for improvement.
  • Other members have voiced similar observations and concerns.
Please note that my position is based soley on his exhibited behavior. I am not casting any dispersions on him as a person.

Regards,
Joe DiMaggio



#5 Joe DiMaggio

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 03:40 PM

I have followed those principles. Re-read my posts.

The posts I made during the Rob Davis incident were purposely confrontational and agressive and directed soley at Mr. Davis to draw him out as a Teaching Mission charlatan. I purposely put aside those principles during that thread.

The Dale Carnegie principles were presented to robert in order to give him some ideas on how to more effectively communicate his points. His posts are written at a level comparable to a young high-school student, are poorly researched, misquote and take out of context passages from the Urantia Book and serve no intellectual value whatsoever. I am tired of him polluting otherwise interesting threads with hostility and argumentiveness and I want something done about it.

robert has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to play well with others and he should be banned from this forum for his behavior. It is as simple as that. I will not argue this point any further.
I have stated my position and I am not alone in this opinion.

You, however, seem to be the only member who believes that robert's behavior on this forum is acceptable. I have said all I am going to say on this matter.

Thank you for respecting my position.

#6 PHIL

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 04:17 PM

Hi Joe;

you wrote;

have followed those points. Re-read my posts.

robert has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to play well with others and he should be banned from this forum for his behavior. It is as simple as that. I will not argue this point. I have stated my position and I am not alone in my opinion.


reply;

I did read your post and have no desire to re read
the tragedy is your unawareness.

of course you won't argue the point you have no point.

I guess Robert and Me should apologize for playing in your own personal sandbox. ;)

Yes I know Robert should be banned is your position.

Be careful what you ask for Robert has a lot to give[I have read him on other list]

and he is willing to engage.

There are very few posters[active members] here for such a well run forum.

If you read Carolyn's last post and some recent by Bill and U-rantian and Jose's Art

I would like as many as possible to be exposed to those type post whether or not
they play well by my or your self imposed rules or even this forums rules.

Being in AA/NA one with your exclusive attitude can literally kill someone[or many if it keeps them away]
Thats why I take this maybe to seriously.

I know this is not the case with Robert he is a secure Faith Son
but the newbies you want to save from Robert I say they may need to saved from you![and some of your play well mates]

I'm sure you find that absurd but I have seen it and experienced it and it is REAL.[In AA and Church]

As I said it is the unawareness or the refusal to go deeper than the surface.



UB groups could learn a great deal from the 12 traditions of AA.

You need not reply but If you do I will give you the last word on this subject

and may we meet in another subject in which we agree and can be positive.


PHIL









I have followed those points. Re-read my posts.

robert has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to play well with others and he should be banned from this forum for his behavior. It is as simple as that. I will not argue this point. I have stated my position and I am not alone in my opinion.



#7 Joe DiMaggio

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 04:45 PM

Thank you, PHIL, for allowing us to disagree. I respect your position and it is not wrong that our positions differ.

We will surely meet in a topic where we can provide a mutual enlightenment that pertains to the Urantia text. I look forward to it.

Joe

#8 Bill Urantia

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 08:03 PM

Admin,

I agree with Joe. Robert's posts make no sense to me and lead to off topic discussions. I asked him politely to try and communicate to no avail. There are some persons who are able to make a point without the use of capital letters or periods, Robert is not one of them.

Bill,
Faith son
Read the Urantia Papers. Read them again.

#9 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 11:53 AM

I agree with Admin in creating this space for members to air out why another member should be removed. "Remove forum member?" as a topic is subject to the same rules as the rest of the forum.

It must be a feather in robert's cap to be getting so much attention here in the forum. Maybe that's what he gets off on. The attention. I have no idea what motivates him.

His posts are not attractive to me. I feel neither nourished or uplifted by them. Rather, they drag me down.

But I am not going to take that mental trip with him. You can go there or not go there. It's your choice.

It is conceivable the moderators will need to step in once again to take an action regarding this subscriber.

Meredith

Admin,

I agree with Joe. Robert's posts make no sense to me and lead to off topic discussions. I asked him politely to try and communicate to no avail. There are some persons who are able to make a point without the use of capital letters or periods, Robert is not one of them.

Bill,
Faith son



#10 Guest_Seraphic_Park_*

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 04:18 PM

Lord have mercy people I think this is a horrible idea. Talk about airing your dirty laundry in public.

Staff: We realize that you folks have jobs and all and that this is a sideline to you. Thank you very much for taking this darn Urantia Book thing so seriously. :(

If any of you (staff), just don't have the "time" to deal with this board.....then perhaps you should consider stepping down and recruiting others who are interested in serving and who do have the time.

Sincerely,

SP

#11 Carolyn

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 01:52 PM

Seraphc Park,

Quote from your post newbie: "this darn Urantia Book thing"?

Are you a reader of TUB? Are you a student of UB? Have you read what Jesus' has to say about anything in our beloved celestial guide for the religion of personal experience?

1. "Darn" is a cute word to cover a not so nice word.

2. "thing" is not only desrespectful to a work so precious to all of us who study it, but it is indicative of a person who has not read UB from cover to cover. I may be wrong. You may be a real newbie in search of answers. In that case; watch what you post.

3. Read the forum rules at the top of this page an follow them. That is the main issue of this thread; someone may have stepped over the line of the rules.

4. There is little room here for "surfers of the internet" looking for? We are very serious. The possible removal of a member is there to protect the sacredness of The Urantia Book.

Love to all,

Carolyn
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#12 Bill Urantia

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 05:16 PM

Carolyn,

This is not the inquisition. At least Seraphic park can write a sentence.

The possible removal of a member is there to protect the sacredness of The Urantia Book.


Sounds like robertspeak to me.

Is robert some kind of a project for you people?

I suggest you ask robert the questions you pose for Seraphic park.

Meanwhile I vote to suspend him indefinately.

Bill,
Faith son
Read the Urantia Papers. Read them again.

#13 admin

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 02:10 AM

It happened sooner than I thought.
Robert violated the forum's rule 1 and 2 in his last post:
http://www.urantia-u...h...

After reading it I suspended his account immediately and asked the moderators for another vote.
The latest count tells me he is not coming back.

Peace
admin

I agree with Admin in creating this space for members to air out why another member should be removed. "Remove forum member?" as a topic is subject to the same rules as the rest of the forum.

It must be a feather in robert's cap to be getting so much attention here in the forum. Maybe that's what he gets off on. The attention. I have no idea what motivates him.

His posts are not attractive to me. I feel neither nourished or uplifted by them. Rather, they drag me down.
But I am not going to take that mental trip with him. You can go there or not go there. It's your choice.

It is conceivable the moderators will need to step in once again to take an action regarding this subscriber.

Meredith



#14 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:30 AM

You might enjoy reading what Jesus said on forgiveness from page 1762:

"1. THE SERMON ON FORGIVENESS

"One evening at Hippos, in answer to a disciple's question, Jesus taught the lesson on forgiveness. Said the Master:

"'If a kindhearted man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, does he not immediately leave the ninety and nine and go out in search of the one that has gone astray? And if he is a good shepherd, will he not keep up his quest for the lost sheep until he finds it? And then, when the shepherd has found his lost sheep, he lays it over his shoulder and, going home rejoicing, calls to his friends and neighbors, `Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.' I declare that there is more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety and nine righteous persons who need no repentance. Even so, it is not the will of my Father in heaven that one of these little ones should go astray, much less that they should perish. In your religion God may receive repentant sinners; in the gospel of the kingdom the Father goes forth to find them even before they have seriously thought of repentance.

"'The Father in heaven loves his children, and therefore should you learn to love one another; the Father in heaven forgives you your sins; therefore should you learn to forgive one another. If your brother sins against you, go to him and with tact and patience show him his fault. And do all this between you and him alone. If he will listen to you, then have you won your brother. But if your brother will not hear you, if he persists in the error of his way, go again to him, taking with you one or two mutual friends that you may thus have two or even three witnesses to confirm your testimony and establish the fact that you have dealt justly and mercifully with your offending brother. Now if he refuses to hear your brethren, you may tell the whole story to the congregation, and then, if he refuses to hear the brotherhood, let them take such action as they deem wise; let such an unruly member become an outcast from the kingdom. While you cannot pretend to sit in judgment on the souls of your fellows, and while you may not forgive sins or otherwise presume to usurp the prerogatives of the supervisors of the heavenly hosts, at the same time, it has been committed to your hands that you should maintain temporal order in the kingdom on earth. While you may not meddle with the divine decrees concerning eternal life, you shall determine the issues of conduct as they concern the temporal welfare of the brotherhood on earth. And so, in all these matters connected with the discipline of the brotherhood, whatsoever you shall decree on earth shall be recognized in heaven. Although you cannot determine the eternal fate of the individual, you may legislate regarding the conduct of the group, for, where two or three of you agree concerning any of these things and ask of me, it shall be done for you if your petition is not inconsistent with the will of my Father in heaven. And all this is ever true, for, where two or three believers are gathered together, there am I in the midst of them.'"

And you can go to the book and read the rest of the sermon.

Meredith

It happened sooner than I thought.
Robert violated the forum's rule 1 and 2 in his last post:
http://www.urantia-u...h...

After reading it I suspended his account immediately and asked the moderators for another vote.
The latest count tells me he is not coming back.

Peace
admin



#15 Guest_Seraphic_Park_*

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 09:15 AM

Hi 2 Believe,

As to my comment you quoted, I was being humorous.

I take the UB extremely seriously and I think all UB discussion boards like this should also. So I therefore found the staff member's comment regarding their wanting to take shortcuts in the overseeing of the site incredulously.


One of the main problems I witness on UB boards is problems maintaining credibility and integrity. These stand in no need of being established as the UB has this credibility and integrity itself. But a on-going much less long-running site must work to maintain these factors.

On every board that I've ever seen troublemakers find their way in and insist on behaving in some way or another that violates the rules and causes a disruption. Allowing these persons this type of license has nothing to do with mercy, it is in fact the antithesis of mercy. There simply must be the secular rule of law in an evolving and progressing society to protect the law abiding group from the out of control individual.

Even God has rules of conduct for His creature children and Lucifer & company were not allowed to prosecute their wrongdoing forever.


On this board, I think it would provide and promote MORE harmony and provide a better looking appearance if all (rule breaking) argumentation were kept off the board. It is ALL UGLY. If a post needs to be edited or deleted for poor content........then staff should just do it and then contact the offending member by PM and let them know what they are doing wrong and ask them not to do it again.....all privately. This way the board always LOOKS GOOD. No fussing on the boards. Just a suggestion....but it's a good suggestion :( and it will work.

#16 Carolyn

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 02:07 PM

Seraphic_Park,

I owe you an apology and do it with love as my intent.

I agree with you. I should have taken my comments off the Forum floor.

I usually have when topics that concern things that visitors would find in contradiction to why we are here on The Urantia Book Forum.

It is wise that we all read your last post and learn from it.

Have a lovely day on Urantia,

2-believe
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#17 Guest_Seraphic_Park_*

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 02:12 PM

Enchante' 2 Believe :(

#18 Meredith Van Woert

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Posted 13 January 2008 - 02:28 PM

I am of the opinion the moderators take the book and this board seriously.

Maybe people who come here, but who do not post, appreciate the way the moderators handle difficult situations. With this new topic, "Remove forum member?" all of us can see what, if anything, bothers people. I don't expect to see much activity here. I notice that some people start out edgy in the beginning, but then soften later when they really see this forum is actually about the book and it's teachings.

The topic affords an avenue of transparency to the public, so the public can see some of the pros and cons of a difficult situation. But we're not lawyers and this isn't a court of law. We do hope that difficult people will self-correct. It is possible that people are not aware of how the posts they write sound to other people. And I think it is brave for a non-English speaker to contribute his/her thoughts to this forum.

I am also of the opinion that the fact of the human interaction which takes place on this board has meaning and value. The human interaction takes place publicly via Internet correspondence - people talking to individuals for the whole world to see. A history begins when one person posts. It evolves. There might be disagreement or agreement. People might be very touched or uplifted, or challenged. The topic might go off in a different direction. It might loose steam and stop for a period. Later, others might take it or something else up again. To me the process is fascinating, especially in light of the teachings of the Urantia Book!

In my opinion the UB forum is a place to apply the teachings. And this is what has meaning and value to me. I appreciate your comments, Seraphic Park. We're getting to know each other too.

Meredith

Hi 2 Believe,

As to my comment you quoted, I was being humorous.

I take the UB extremely seriously and I think all UB discussion boards like this should also. So I therefore found the staff member's comment regarding their wanting to take shortcuts in the overseeing of the site incredulously.


One of the main problems I witness on UB boards is problems maintaining credibility and integrity. These stand in no need of being established as the UB has this credibility and integrity itself. But a on-going much less long-running site must work to maintain these factors.

On every board that I've ever seen troublemakers find their way in and insist on behaving in some way or another that violates the rules and causes a disruption. Allowing these persons this type of license has nothing to do with mercy, it is in fact the antithesis of mercy. There simply must be the secular rule of law in an evolving and progressing society to protect the law abiding group from the out of control individual.

Even God has rules of conduct for His creature children and Lucifer & company were not allowed to prosecute their wrongdoing forever.


On this board, I think it would provide and promote MORE harmony and provide a better looking appearance if all (rule breaking) argumentation were kept off the board. It is ALL UGLY. If a post needs to be edited or deleted for poor content........then staff should just do it and then contact the offending member by PM and let them know what they are doing wrong and ask them not to do it again.....all privately. This way the board always LOOKS GOOD. No fussing on the boards. Just a suggestion....but it's a good suggestion :( and it will work.



#19 Guest_mod2_*

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 04:07 PM

Dear Faithful,

When the Lananondek rebellion was just beginning to get a head of steam 2200 centuries ago, undecideds were able to go from one venue to another, on Jerusem, to listen to Gabriel or to listen to Lucifer and so were accorded freedom to exercise their will and make their choice. What we are doing here is similar and worth continuing. It is only used after the moderators have discussed it privately amongst themselves and are preparing to take action. We also make our ballot in private. Everything else is and should be transparent and open.

We make every effort to conduct our business according to Urantia Book principles, the highest guidance available. I think I can speak for all the moderators and administrators by saying we have no wish to "settle" for anything less than the best we can provide.

#20 PHIL

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 08:58 AM

"the prejudice and arrogance of false teachers and untrue shepherds who are like whited sepulchres which, while outwardly they appear beautiful, are inwardly full of dead men's bones and all manner of spiritual uncleanness."

"Even so do you who knowingly reject the counsel of God appear outwardly to men as holy and righteous, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and iniquity."

"Woe upon all those who despise the revelation of the Father while they seek the chief seats in the synagogue and crave flattering salutations in the market places!"

"Woe upon you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You would shut the doors of the kingdom of heaven against sincere men because they happen to be unlearned in the ways of your teaching."

"Woe upon you who dissimulate when you take an oath! You are tricksters since you teach that a man may swear by the temple and break his oath, but that whoso swears by the gold in the temple must remain bound. You are all fools and blind. You are not even consistent in your dishonesty, for which is the greater, the gold or the temple which has supposedly sanctified the gold? You also teach that, if a man swears by the altar, it is nothing; but that, if one swears by the gift that is upon the altar, then shall he be held as a debtor. Again are you blind to the truth, for which is the greater, the gift or the altar which sanctifies the gift? How can you justify such hypocrisy and dishonesty in the sight of the God of heaven?"

P.1908 - 2 "Woe upon you, scribes, Pharisees, and hypocrites! for you are scrupulous to cleanse the outside of the cup and the platter, but within there remains the filth of extortion, excesses, and deception. You are spiritually blind. Do you not recognize how much better it would be first to cleanse the inside of the cup, and then that which spills over would of itself cleanse the outside? You wicked reprobates! you make the outward performances of your religion to conform with the letter of your interpretation of Moses' law while your souls are steeped in iniquity and filled with murder.

Jesus/Michael wouldn't last a week on this forum if He replied to post I have seen.

I have found your IGNORE feature works fine.

PHIL









Dear Faithful,

When the Lananondek rebellion was just beginning to get a head of steam 2200 centuries ago, undecideds were able to go from one venue to another, on Jerusem, to listen to Gabriel or to listen to Lucifer and so were accorded freedom to exercise their will and make their choice. What we are doing here is similar and worth continuing. It is only used after the moderators have discussed it privately amongst themselves and are preparing to take action. We also make our ballot in private. Everything else is and should be transparent and open.

We make every effort to conduct our business according to Urantia Book principles, the highest guidance available. I think I can speak for all the moderators and administrators by saying we have no wish to "settle" for anything less than the best we can provide.






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