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#21 Carolyn

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:50 PM

Disregard this duplicate mistake...Carolyn

Edited by Carolyn, 11 April 2013 - 08:00 PM.

"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#22 Alina

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:23 PM

Thank you Dear Carolina!

It is very true what you say!
Women are more pacifist, more sensitive, and we have suffered much the consequences of war.
It is true, as the Revelations says, at other times have been utility or benefit, but it seems to me that it is time to turn progressive, because the time is changing and very fast.
Nor war today would be as before, is a great, tremendous risk, worldwide.



(804.1) 71:4.1 Economics, society, and government must evolve if they are to remain. Static conditions on an evolutionary world are indicative of decay; only those institutions which move forward with the evolutionary stream persist.


(804.2) 71:4.2 The progressive program of an expanding civilization embraces:


1. Preservation of individual liberties.


2. Protection of the home.


3. Promotion of economic security.


4. Prevention of disease.

5. Compulsory education.

6. Compulsory employment.

7. Profitable utilization of leisure.


8. Care of the unfortunate.


9. Race improvement.


10. Promotion of science and art.


11. Promotion of philosophy — wisdom.


12. Augmentation of cosmic insight — spirituality.


(804.15) 71:4.15 And this progress in the arts of civilization leads directly to the realization of the highest human and divine goals of mortal endeavor — the social achievement of the brotherhood of man and the personal status of God-consciousness, which becomes revealed in the supreme desire of every individual to do the will of the Father in heaven.

(804.16) 71:4.16 The appearance of genuine brotherhood signifies that a social order has arrived in which all men delight in bearing one another’s burdens; they actually desire to practice the golden rule. But such an ideal society cannot be realized when either the weak or the wicked lie in wait to take unfair and unholy advantage of those who are chiefly actuated by devotion to the service of truth, beauty, and goodness. In such a situation only one course is practical: The “golden rulers” may establish a progressive society in which they live according to their ideals while maintaining an adequate defense against their benighted fellows who might seek either to exploit their pacific predilections or to destroy their advancing civilization.



LOVE

Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 11 April 2013 - 08:36 PM.


#23 -Scott-

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 01:18 AM

Dear Alina,

Wars have always been hard on the individual. For women war is terrible. This has been so since civilizations has come into being.
Unfortunately, there will always be mortals, who like Lucifer, want to rule with a heavy hand. We defeat one and another appears. The battle against tyranny is perhaps endless until TUB finds its way into more hearts. We fight a different kind of war. We carry the message of the Father of Love. Love removes hate and hate is the father of war. Dictators are selfish and egotistical. They rise up from deformed ideas of "liberty." Every generation has its rulers who want to "hurry" the process of governing with policies that eventually always lead to wars. Whether to take land form others, push their religious beliefs, or just to be powerful over others, evil dictates their purposes. Love is not. I love the 5th Epochal Revelation, TUB, because it teaches us that we are each and everyone known and loved. We are special and no matter who says not, we KNOW what we KNOW.

Faith sister,

Carolyn


Physical war, slavery and communism actually as confusing as it is to our ideals and spiritual consciousness, really has nothing to do with the lucifer rebellion. In fact war, slavery and communism are indispensable to advancing civilization. They are necessary experiential roadblocks put there for us to overcome. It would "false liberty" to actually go to other tribal nations and try and "Liberate" them from their freedom to overcome these indispensables. As confusing as it is, barbaric countries have the right to war, dictatorship and slavery because they need to learn to overcome that stuff on their own. We can't short circuit time and force our own more advanced way of life on them. Its really not our battle to police the world, in fact it would be a sin to try and liberate these barbaric
Nations from these indispensables. The irony is that we would be falling for a sophistry of the lucifer rebellion if we thought our job was to liberate all these other nations from their evolutional challenges that were put in place by deity. We should not attempt to short curcuit their evolution. That is the alure of sophistry, from a purely spiritual idealistic stand point it seems so tempting. Obviously we can still use war as a means of defence against these barbaric nations though.

- (69:9.2) Primitive communism did not especially level men down, nor did it exalt mediocrity, but it did put a premium on inactivity and idleness, and it did stifle industry and destroy ambition. Communism was indispensable scaffolding in the growth of primitive society, but it gave way to the evolution of a higher social order because it ran counter to four strong human proclivities:

45 - (69:8.6) Slavery was an indispensable link in the chain of human civilization. It was the bridge over which society passed from chaos and indolence to order and civilized activities; it compelled backward and lazy peoples to work and thus provide wealth and leisure for the social advancement of their superiors.

(70:2.9)War has served many valuable purposes in the past, it has been an indispensable scaffolding in the building of civilization, but it is rapidly becoming culturally bankruptóincapable of producing dividends of social gain in any way commensurate with the terrible losses attendant upon its invocation.

- (70:2.9)War has had a certain evolutionary and selective value, but like slavery, it must sometime be abandoned as civilization slowly advances.

Edited by -Scott-, 12 April 2013 - 01:41 AM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#24 Alina

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:24 AM

Hi Scott!
It seems to me that the lack of the necessary percentage of violet blood is one of the causes,
Although, it was enough for us to continue being here. :D I dread to think what would have happened if this extraordinary event had not occurred. right?
Of course. if impatience, had not led to fall victim to the trap of Caligastia, by Cano, the evolution of Urantia would have developed, as in other normal planets .
Eva was impatient, but anyway, I would like to meet her someday! :D
The mission was very difficult, I do not blame her for this controversial .for some, and partial failure, who knows? I do not know, but maybe the events had to develop so. I am very grateful to Adam and Eve who came to our planet with a mission so gigantic as beautiful.
For me, is logical thinking that is the reason of so much violence, because if more spiritual racial strains have been more Urantia would have evolved without so much violence, among other things, but mine is conjecture... :)

(871.7) 78:4.1 The Andite races were the primary blends of the pure-line violet race and the Nodites plus the evolutionary peoples. In general, Andites should be thought of as having a far greater percentage of Adamic blood than the modern races. In the main, the term Andite is used to designate those peoples whose racial inheritance was from one-eighth to one-sixth violet. Modern Urantians, even the northern white races, contain much less than this percentage of the blood of Adam.

(872.3) 78:4.5 The purer strains of the violet race had retained the Adamic tradition of peace-seeking, which explains why the earlier race movements had been more in the nature of peaceful migrations. But as the Adamites united with the Nodite stocks, who were by this time a belligerent race, their Andite descendants became, for their day and age, the most skillful and sagacious militarists ever to live on Urantia. Thenceforth the movements of the Mesopotamians grew increasingly military in character and became more akin to actual conquests.

(872.4) 78:4.6 These Andites were adventurous; they had roving dispositions. An increase of either Sangik or Andonite stock tended to stabilize them. But even so, their later descendants never stopped until they had circumnavigated the globe and discovered the last remote continent.



Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 12 April 2013 - 12:45 PM.


#25 -Scott-

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 01:35 PM

@Alina Yea the impatience of Eve definitely hurt and it would seem that impatience greatly influenced Lucifer as well. Patience is definitely the key I think to at least having a good and safe foundation. I think from our purely spiritual viewpoint we see something ideal and we want it now and we can tend to forget about time.

54:4.4.Most of the liberties which Lucifer sought he already had; others he was to receive in the future. All these precious endowments were lost by giving way to impatience and yielding to a desire to possess what one craves now and to possess it in defiance of all obligation to respect the rights and liberties of all other beings composing the universe of universes. Ethical obligations are innate, divine, and universal.


What is also interesting to me at least is that the Divine Minister (Local Mother Spirit) made it as easy and even provided "unlimited opportunity" for sin expression as a means of curing it. Luckily or unluckily in our society there is ample opportunity for sin expression hahah. At least we have that part accomplished.



[left]54:5.11.10. The Divine Minister of Salvington issued as her third independent proclamation a mandate directing that nothing be done to half cure, cowardly suppress, or otherwise hide the hideous visage of rebels and rebellion. The angelic hosts were directed to work for full disclosure and unlimited opportunity for sin-expression as the quickest technique of achieving the perfect and final cure of the plague of evil and sin.


Edited by -Scott-, 12 April 2013 - 01:36 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#26 Alina

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:47 PM

Anyway always the cause is the rebellion!

But it is true the opportunities are limitless, we can choose. But to choose also requires
to know and have faith.
It's a bit complicated because minds often fall into a vicious circle, in which it becomes almost impossible remove of there. In my opinion, it could be because the person unwittingly, is blocking the thinking and feeling; can be, among other things, the impatience, as you say.

This is the conflict of Urantians, not to be within "normal worlds"
With the bestowal of Jesus much has been recovered!


(382.3) 34:7.3 The mortals of a normal world do not experience constant warfare between their physical and spiritual natures. They are confronted with the necessity of climbing up from the animal levels of existence to the higher planes of spiritual living, but this ascent is more like undergoing an educational training when compared with the intense conflicts of Urantia mortals in this realm of the divergent material and spiritual natures.

(382.4) 34:7.4 The Urantia peoples are suffering the consequences of a double deprivation of help in this task of progressive planetary spiritual attainment. The Caligastia upheaval precipitated world-wide confusion and robbed all subsequent generations of the moral assistance which a well-ordered society would have provided. But even more disastrous was the Adamic default in that it deprived the races of that superior type of physical nature which would have been more consonant with spiritual aspirations.

(382.5) 34:7.5 Urantia mortals are compelled to undergo such marked struggling between the spirit and the flesh because their remote ancestors were not more fully Adamized by the Edenic bestowal. It was the divine plan that the mortal races of Urantia should have had physical natures more naturally spirit responsive.

(382.6) 34:7.6 Notwithstanding this double disaster to man’s nature and his environment, present-day mortals would experience less of this apparent warfare between the flesh and the spirit if they would enter the spirit kingdom, wherein the faith sons of God enjoy comparative deliverance from the slave-bondage of the flesh in the enlightened and liberating service of wholehearted devotion to doing the will of the Father in heaven. Jesus showed mankind the new way of mortal living whereby human beings may very largely escape the dire consequences of the Caligastic rebellion and most effectively compensate for the deprivations resulting from the Adamic default. “The spirit of the life of Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of animal living and the temptations of evil and sin.” “This is the victory that overcomes the flesh, even your faith.”


Alina
***

#27 Bonita

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:37 AM

But let's not forget that there is the phenomenon of spirit-gravity, an attraction of spiritualized personalities one to the other. Evil has its own gravity which is isolating (56:10.14). Spirit gravity is far more potent than evil gravity. Kindred spirits are capable of overcoming evil in all of its forms, particularly if they stick together. After all, cosmic socialization is the highest form of personality unification. No need to fear.


p82:5 7:1.6 Spirit-gravity pull and response thereto operate not only on the universe as a whole but also even between individuals and groups of individuals. There is a spiritual cohesiveness among the spiritual and spiritized personalities of any world, race, nation, or believing group of individuals. There is a direct attractiveness of a spirit nature between spiritually minded persons of like tastes and longings. The term kindred spirits is not wholly a figure of speech.

56:10.14 Every impulse of every electron, thought, or spirit is an acting unit in the whole universe. Only sin is isolated and evil gravity resisting on the mental and spiritual levels. The universe is a whole; no thing or being exists or lives in isolation. Self-realization is potentially evil if it is antisocial. It is literally true: “No man lives by himself.” Cosmic socialization constitutes the highest form of personality unification. Said Jesus: “He who would be greatest among you, let him become server of all.”

#28 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:01 AM

Bonita, to clarify - I think the quote does not say "evil gravity" but that evil is gravity resisting....a drag or weight interfering with the force of spirit gravity. And I agree with all that evil includes the mind poisens...anxiety, fear, impatience, and prejudice are all similar in their resistance to the pull of the spirit.
Peace be upon you."

#29 Alina

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:25 AM

Hi all! True Bradly, thanks! :)


Yes, good is stronger than evil. Always,
Meanwhile we are on Urantia, learning to identify and experience, recognize where is the truth and where the error.
The gravity spiritual, attraction updrafts are pulling towards higher levels. The Eternal Son is there, but the choice is ours.
No, there's no need to fear, because we know that like attracts like.


Bonita, I love this quote!

56:10.14 Every impulse of every electron, thought, or spirit is an acting unit in the whole universe. Only sin is isolated and evil gravity resisting on the mental and spiritual levels. The universe is a whole; no thing or being exists or lives in isolation. Self-realization is potentially evil if it is antisocial. It is literally true: “No man lives by himself.” Cosmic socialization constitutes the highest form of personality unification. Said Jesus: “He who would be greatest among you, let him become server of all.”

Thought, as the electron and spirit act in the whole universe!
But is the origin and nature of our thoughts and feelings, those attract or repel determining the fate of each of us.


(150.3) 13:4.4 Physical authority, presence, and function are unvarying in all the universes, small or great. The differing factor in spiritual presence, or reaction, is the fluctuating differential in its recognition and reception by will creatures. Whereas the spiritual presence of absolute and existential Deity is in no manner whatever influenced by attitudes of loyalty or disloyalty on the part of created beings, at the same time it is true that the functioning presence of subabsolute and experiential Deity is definitely and directly influenced by the decisions, choices, and will-attitudes of such finite creature beings — by the loyalty and devotion of the individual being, planet, system, constellation, or universe. But this spiritual presence of divinity is not whimsical nor arbitrary; its experiential variance is inherent in the freewill endowment of personal creatures.


(150.4) 13:4.5 The determiner of the differential of spiritual presence exists in your own hearts and minds and consists in the manner of your own choosing, in the decisions of your minds, and in the determination of your own wills. This differential is inherent in the freewill reactions of intelligent personal beings, beings whom the Universal Father has ordained shall exercise this liberty of choosing. And the Deities are ever true to the ebb and flow of their spirits in meeting and satisfying the conditions and demands of this differential of creature choice, now bestowing more of their presence in response to a sincere desire for the same and again withdrawing themselves from the scene as their creatures decide adversely in the exercise of their divinely bestowed freedom of choice. And thus does the spirit of divinity become humbly obedient to the choosing of the creatures of the realms.



Greetings,

Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 13 April 2013 - 10:59 AM.


#30 Bonita

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 01:26 PM

Bonita, to clarify - I think the quote does not say "evil gravity" but that evil is gravity resisting....a drag or weight interfering with the force of spirit gravity. And I agree with all that evil includes the mind poisens...anxiety, fear, impatience, and prejudice are all similar in their resistance to the pull of the spirit.


Yeah, I agree. Evil resists spirit gravity, but I see it as having it's own self-isolating gravity, sort of a self-imploding type of gravity. Perhaps I'm using artistic license though.


". . . within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”(53:9.8)

#31 Alina

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 03:46 PM

Yes, that's true Bonita!

This is related to a previous post, when a human being is in an unfavorable position and falls victim to a vicious circle, unable to see anything but their wrong beliefs. Scott mentioned to impatience, but for example, there is also fanaticism among other things.
It is a real problem, but difficult to solve when someone attempts to rescue that person of where he/she are.
It is clear in the quotes what I mean:

(1220.10) 111:4.11 This is the problem: If freewill man is endowed with the powers of creativity in the inner man, then must we recognize that freewill creativity embraces the potential of freewill destructivity. And when creativity is turned to destructivity, you are face to face with the devastation of evil and sin — oppression, war, and destruction. Evil is a partiality of creativity which tends toward disintegration and eventual destruction. All conflict is evil in that it inhibits the creative function of the inner life — it is a species of civil war in the personality.

(1221.1) 111:4.12 Inner creativity contributes to ennoblement of character through personality integration and selfhood unification. It is forever true: The past is unchangeable; only the future can be changed by the ministry of the present creativity of the inner self.

Alina
***

#32 -Scott-

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:55 PM

I think there is a correlation between this paragraph and error, evil, sin and iniquity.

1 - (118:7.7) Subpersonal living things indicate mind activating energy-matter, first as physical controllers, and then as adjutant mind-spirits. Personality endowment comes from the Father and imparts unique prerogatives of choice to the living system. But if personality has the prerogative of exercising volitional choice of reality identification, and if this is a true and free choice, then must evolving personality also have the possible choice of becoming self-confusing, self-disrupting, and self-destroying. The possibility of cosmic self-destruction cannot be avoided if the evolving personality is to be truly free in the exercise of finite will.

I take this as: error (self-confusing), evil (self-disrupting) sin (self-destroying) and Iniquity (self-destruction).

So on one hand in regards to error and evil. Error is both (self-confusing) and (the error of time) and with evil there is the evil of space and the fact that its self-disrupting.

54:1.2.True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress.
False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space.
Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity


Just trying to make sense of how we could perhaps visualize just what the error of time and the evil of space would look like, the u.b describes time as succession of instants or moments (118:3.1)for time is a succession of instants while space is a system of associated points.

"The error of time" seems to suggests to me IMO that if truth is flowing through time that if it were to be mixed or (confused) with falsehood that this would be error, even the word confuse is related to a pouring together. IMO If we were then to try and give that error form in our minds we would probably end up with (self-disruption) which is the creation of space or the (evil of space). Dis is literally related to breaking apart or creating space. Than IMO if we were to take that evil even further and deliberate on it and than choose it after deliberation we begin to purpose that evil, than we would be committing sin or "self-destroying" IMO. Deliberate is related to weighing, in this case it probably relates to choosing to purpose good or purpose that evil disrupting form in our mind. IMO with committing sin it would involve the adjuster literally tearing down our soul as we choose destruction. Finally when there is nothing left of the soul we have self-destruction/iniquity, a empty vessel where the soul used to be.

Edited by -Scott-, 13 April 2013 - 06:33 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#33 Alina

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:40 PM

Yes Scott, when there is nothing ... nothing .... :wub:
It is the great paradox, as the UB says.
The duality we always going to find in space-time, but for me, I insist that the issue is decide
to do the Will of the Father, but this requires having some attitudes and skills as the quote says. Courage to transcend to ourselves, this would neutralize the situation between the two opposite poles; the overvalue our self-awareness and and learn to see the reality of who we are? and where we are going?
Thus, I think, that we have the possibility of removing the con-fusion that as you say, is to fusion with the conflict of dual loyalty, no?

Is this what you mean?

(1221.8) 111:6.1 Many of the temporal troubles of mortal man grow out of his twofold relation to the cosmos. Man is a part of nature — he exists in nature — and yet he is able to transcend nature. Man is finite, but he is indwelt by a spark of infinity. Such a dual situation not only provides the potential for evil but also engenders many social and moral situations fraught with much uncertainty and not a little anxiety.

(1222.1) 111:6.2 The courage required to effect the conquest of nature and to transcend one’s self is a courage that might succumb to the temptations of self-pride. The mortal who can transcend self might yield to the temptation to deify his own self-consciousness. The mortal dilemma consists in the double fact that man is in bondage to nature while at the same time he possesses a unique liberty — freedom of spiritual choice and action. On material levels man finds himself subservient to nature, while on spiritual levels he is triumphant over nature and over all things temporal and finite. Such a paradox is inseparable from temptation, potential evil, decisional errors, and when self becomes proud and arrogant, sin may evolve.

(1222.2) 111:6.3 The problem of sin is not self-existent in the finite world. The fact of finiteness is not evil or sinful. The finite world was made by an infinite Creator — it is the handiwork of his divine Sons — and therefore it must be good. It is the misuse, distortion, and perversion of the finite that gives origin to evil and sin.



Greetings!

Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 13 April 2013 - 09:30 PM.


#34 -Scott-

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 12:02 AM

@Alina those are great quotes especially for this topic. They definitely deal with this.

The authors suggest that we can misuse, distort and perverse the finite. Not all evil and sin is the classical physical act of evil that is often portrayed in movies. The authors are suggesting IMO that the distortion of reality is where we can begin to develop evil. The type of sin that Lucifer was committing IMO was way above the level of typical forms of evil and sin that we are used to thinking about as a world. The urantia book states that evolution is creativity in time.
-

(105:6.5) 4. The divinity response to the imperfection inherent in the time lag of evolution is disclosed in the compensating presence of God the Sevenfold, by whose activities that which is perfecting is integrated with both the perfect and the perfected. This time lag is inseparable from evolution, which is creativity in time.

The recognition of the time element of finite reality is paramount to our safety IMO, recognizing how reality relates to time will to keep us safe from sin IMO. I think some first time readers may look at this quote below and think well what is the real danger in being both a perfecting creature of time and having this spiritual consciousness that can set us free.

(1222.1) 111:6.2 The courage required to effect the conquest of nature and to transcend one’s self is a courage that might succumb to the temptations of self-pride. The mortal dilemma consists in the double fact that man is in bondage to nature while at the same time he possesses a unique liberty — freedom of spiritual choice and action. On material levels man finds himself subservient to nature, while on spiritual levels he is triumphant over nature and over all things temporal and finite. Such a paradox is inseparable from temptation, potential evil, decisional errors, and when self becomes proud and arrogant, sin may evolve.

The major dilemma IMO of having these two perspectives of the spiritual and material is that spiritual consciousness by itself has no recognition of time. Its fundamentally idealistic and when it see's some ideal it desires it right now. Our material consciousness is fundamentally aware of time, IMO its up to us to weave the two viewpoints together so that we have a true relationship to reality. An atheist will never be in peril of falling for some of the sophistries of the Lucifer rebellion because he/she has never used his/her spiritual consciousness. A lot of these sophistries that could result in our death await peoples recognition as they become more spiritual in their thinking. Its when we start becoming more spiritually aware that some of these nasty sophistries of the rebellion can potentially be acted on IMO. If we are attempting to get rid of the time element from reality by way of idealistic thinking, or attempting to rid someone else's relationship to time because our own ideals compel us to, we are acting disloyal to our relationship to Deity IMO. At first our impatience and desire to short circuit time may be just "disloyalty to deity" and we are not really fully aware of what we are doing, but at some point we will really slip up and be face to face with a decision in which we make a deliberate choice to be disloyal to deity by deliberately purposing that evil in our minds.

What I mean by confuse though is that I picture sort of a flow of truth which is liquid mixed/confused with another liquid (falsehood) and this liquid flows through time because we are creatures of time and space. And then as that mixture of both truth and falsehood is given form in our minds we create literal space in our minds or literal disruption/ a breaking apart in our consciousness. Then finally as we purpose that evil and deliberate on it we weigh it against truth and choose to disrupt our relationship to finite reality on purpose, at which point we are sinning. The u.b seems to indicate that one of the quickest ways to sin is through the real nasty sophistry brought to our world called false liberty. With false liberty it does not necessarily have to be that we are overly in love with our self. It can be much simpler than that, it can just start with pure impatience. A spiritually aware person can become impatient and want liberty right now. At that point that person has to catch themselves and be really careful that they don't try and liberate their self or others from the over-control of Deity by trying to short circuit time.

- (54:1.4) Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships

The others usually don't call anything suicidal. They seem to be suggesting IMO literal suicide or self-destruction. All someone has to be barren of is some of these attributes of material justice, intellctual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty and spiritual values to come suicide through false liberty.

54:1.2.True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress.
False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space.
Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity


A human being can just as easily attempt to short-circuit time for their self or others, we don't have to be a high spiritual being to commit this sophistry.

54:2.3.Lucifer's folly was the attempt to do the nondoable, to short-circuit time in an experiential universe

Of coarse at the same time we don't want to go to slow.

- (39:4.12) These seraphim teach the fruitfulness of patience: That stagnation is certain death, but that overrapid growth is equally suicidal; that as a drop of water from a higher level falls to a lower and, flowing onward, passes ever downward through a succession of short falls, so ever upward is progress in the morontia and spirit worlds—and just as slowly and by just such gradual stages.

These are just some of the ideas I have regarding this topic, a lot of my understanding of this situation has come via study groups on tuesday afternoons from this show (symmetryofsoul.org). There is a archive on their website and they have a lot of shows dedicated to talking about the rebellion and this topic. So no I haven't made all these connections on my own in case anyone is wondering lol. But I am using my own words to describe how I feel about this.

Edited by -Scott-, 14 April 2013 - 12:14 AM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#35 Alina

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 12:36 PM

Thanks Scott, it's okay to write your insights about what is said in the study groups, Tuesdays.
well you do me a favor because I miss a little, when I hear talking very fast, because of language :unsure: pronunciation .It's great what you said!

We sample, you can further study, and this, in my opinion, help to apply to our desire to be better, to grow and progress.I understand, we always consider the sins, the error, we might call common, but it is going further when we explore deeper areas and we deep into other levels of consciousness
I think because it is precisely the level of our consciousness.
Things are not as simple as they seem, many times.
What you're saying is that being spiritual, we can also make errors. I agree that we will not be here "totally spiritual "and we must be careful not to produce, a mixture "watery" and then drag other situations internal conflicts for which are not yet mentally prepared, it would a short-circuit with disastrous consequences.
How important it is to have this point in mind!

Now remember the point of morontia mota says:
" Inherent capacities cannot be exceeded; a pint can never hold a quart. The spirit concept cannot be mechanically forced into the material memory mold.48:7.5 3"

It can not be forced or in us, because that would use violence against ourselves! and obviously, on the others persons.There is much to discover here.Because, too often, the mistake of giving other thing we know is we want one product of personal brilliance, to show others how much we know! and actually that's no good.
If anything we have, of course it is to share, but with the sincere hope that it will be useful to someone, and there is no danger of forcing, because if not the time, the words go long or are as a blank paper, when we write. is different to be together with someone, and we insist... insist ... :D for convince of our ideas. Error :)
It's like spreading of UB.

(556.8) 48:7.8 6. To enjoy privilege without abuse, to have liberty without license, to possess power and steadfastly refuse to use it for self-aggrandizement — these are the marks of high civilization.

We, in the space-time we have the possibility to reach an "intermediate" level reaching cosmic ment, but everything is progressive.
Whoever gets there, must have passed far enough to have a fairly broad view of the difference between reality and "Reality", for possible unify later.

(104.5) 9:6.7 The greater the spirit-energy divergence, the greater the observable function of mind; the lesser the diversity of energy and spirit, the lesser the observable function of mind. Apparently, the maximum function of the cosmic mind is in the time universes of space. Here mind seems to function in a mid-zone between energy and spirit, but this is not true of the higher levels of mind; on Paradise, energy and spirit are essentially one.

(1285.3) 117:4.14 God’s gifts — his bestowal of reality — are not divorcements from himself; he does not alienate creation from himself, but he has set up tensions in the creations circling Paradise. God first loves man and confers upon him the potential of immortality — eternal reality. And as man loves God, so does man become eternal in actuality. And here is mystery: The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. The more man withdraws from God, the more nearly he approaches nonreality — cessation of existence. When man consecrates his will to the doing of the Father’s will, when man gives God all that he has, then does God make that man more than he is.


Alina
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#36 -Scott-

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

It can not be forced or in us, because that would use violence against ourselves! and obviously, on the others persons.There is much to discover here.Because, too often, the mistake of giving other thing we know is we want one product of personal brilliance, to show others how much we know! and actually that's no good.
If anything we have, of course it is to share, but with the sincere hope that it will be useful to someone, and there is no danger of forcing, because if not the time, the words go long or are as a blank paper, when we write. is different to be together with someone, and we insist... insist ... :D for convince of our ideas. Error :)
It's like spreading of UB.


Yeap I agree no one should be forced to believe in anything. No doubt the desire to sound smart can hurt us, thats why I admit that a lot of my understandings come from study sessions and I am not responsible for picking out all these connections in the u.b :). Apparently there was a message given to the original contact group to form study groups as well.
If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#37 Alina

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 03:55 PM

Yes Scott, I understand very well! what to intellectualize the teachings I said it in genral, I was not referring to you :)

Really does not matter because f it's yours, better, but it's always your own interpretation that counts, even if you agree with what you hear in the study groups, it's like yours! no?
Of course groups are important, because we know about the socialization and the dangers of always studying alone.
After all, the forum is like a study group, too. but lack the personal touch, which is important.
Also is good study in solitude, thinking, meditating.
Like when Jesus went to the mountains to talk to your Father in heaven.
Wouu ... :o I do not like giving advice, but I do not know, is that I want to share with you my own experience, and this will not be the same as yours. or maybe we have something in common.
While, certainly we have in common our identification with the teachings of the Fifth Revelation. And that's saying a lot.

(1774.3) 160:1.11 I am deeply impressed with the custom of Jesus in going apart by himself to engage in these seasons of solitary survey of the problems of living; to seek for new stores of wisdom and energy for meeting the manifold demands of social service; to quicken and deepen the supreme purpose of living by actually subjecting the total personality to the consciousness of contacting with divinity; to grasp for possession of new and better methods of adjusting oneself to the ever-changing situations of living existence; to effect those vital reconstructions and readjustments of one’s personal attitudes which are so essential to enhanced insight into everything worth while and real; and to do all of this with an eye single to the glory of God — to breathe in sincerity your Master’s favorite prayer, “Not my will, but yours, be done.”


Greetings!

Alina
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#38 -Scott-

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:22 PM

I find coming on here and going on study groups helps me because I am more interested in what others think. I don't form my viewpoints based just on what I think, I feel that others opinions are just as valid as mine. I think there is a trap that we can fall into where we may read the u.b and think to ourself well all that matters is "how I feel about this". I don't feel like creating my own authority over the u.b so I try and keep myself as open as possible to seeing the u.b from other viewpoints as much as possible, and if someone else has made a creative thought that matches up with the u.b I will take that truth wherever it may come from, I don't feel like this is a bad thing. If the universe IS, than whatever truth exists pertaining to the universe is not just true to someone else but all people IMO. If someone provides some insight into error,evil and sin that matches up with the urantia book I won't ignore it because "its not my truth" or because I didn't discover it. I think that is silly/selfish even a act of "self-assertion" to think that way.

Edited by -Scott-, 14 April 2013 - 11:00 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#39 Rick Warren

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:42 AM

I find coming on here and going on study groups helps me because I am more interested in what others think. I don't form my viewpoints based just on what I think, I feel that others opinions are just as valid as mine. I think there is a trap that we can fall into where we may read the u.b and think to ourself well all that matters is "how I feel about this". I don't feel like creating my own authority over the u.b so I try and keep myself as open as possible to seeing the u.b from other viewpoints as much as possible, and if someone else has made a creative thought that matches up with the u.b I will take that truth wherever it may come from, I don't feel like this is a bad thing. If the universe IS, than whatever truth exists pertaining to the universe is not just true to someone else but all people IMO. If someone provides some insight into error,evil and sin that matches up with the urantia book I won't ignore it because "its not my truth" or because I didn't discover it. I think that is silly/selfish even a act of "self-assertion" to think that way.


Good to hear such clear-headed thinking Scott. Sure hope you will join the crew on the new site, this one is winding down a bit more each day. http://urantia-uai.org/

#40 Alina

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:53 AM

Yes!


Dear Scott, you are saying the same as me, but with other words! :)
Of course, the opinion of others is valid, always! is a help.
But, we also have our own, those who are born of our understanding, with the help of our Thought Adjuster Spirit.

Greetings!

Alina
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