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#1 Alina

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:21 PM

Hi to all! :)

Something that struck me is the word self-assertion of Paper 16.
It is, at least a term rarely used Spanish language
What does it mean exactly?
Anyone know more about this concept? of course I am not referring to a maximum degree, as the end reached by Lucifer.
Could we fall into the void, without even realizing it?It seems to me that to know ourselves, (lower part of yo "egocentrism") to get degrees higher would be like " separate the tares (defects, errors) of the wheat (truth) "
Our Spirit Thought Adjuster can not guide us if our hearts and minds are not "reasonably" harmonized,that is, within our current possibilities.

Looking dictionaries I found some definitions but, I think that fail to give us a clear and profound meaning.

____________

Dictionary of Spanish © 2005 Espasa Calpe:
assertion
f. Action and effect of state (secure).
Proposition which states or gives anything for certain.
----
assertion
feminine noun
1. assertion of state action or Dio certainly give your

assertion the student.
2. assertion speech, words that affirm or take for

Your assertion true something surprised us
___________


Some paragraphs of "self-assertion" from the UB:

(602.5) 53:2.2 There were no peculiar or special conditions in the system of Satania which suggested or favored rebellion. It is our belief that the idea took origin and form in Lucifer’s mind, and that he might have instigated such a rebellion no matter where he might have been stationed. Lucifer first announced his plans to Satan, but it required several months to corrupt the mind of his able and brilliant associate. However, when once converted to the rebel theories, he became a bold and earnest advocate of “self-assertion and liberty.”

602.6) 53:2.3 No one ever suggested rebellion to Lucifer. The idea of self-assertion in opposition to the will of Michael and to the plans of the Universal Father, as they are represented in Michael, had its origin in his own mind...

(607.3) 53:7.2 Throughout this period Caligastia was advocating the cause of Lucifer on Urantia. The
Melchizedeks ably opposed the apostate Planetary Prince, but the sophistries of unbridled liberty and the delusions of self-assertion had every opportunity for deceiving the primitive peoples of a young and undeveloped world.


606.8) 53:6.5 “Having been automatically thrown out of the constellation circuits by the secession of Lucifer, we were dependent on the loyalty of our intelligence corps, who forwarded calls for help to Edentia from the near-by system of Rantulia; and we found that the kingdom of order, the
intellect of loyalty, and the spirit of truth were inherently triumphant over rebellion, self-assertion, and so-called personal liberty;...


---
Well, I do not know if anyone knows a little more deeply about the meaning of this word.at least in Spanish, there are differences that I have no clear.
It has to do with pride, with the exaggerated self-esteem?



Thanks,
Greetings... :)

Alina
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#2 -Scott-

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:53 PM

Alina: Could we fall into the void, without even realizing it?It seems to me that to know ourselves, (lower part of yo "egocentrism") to get degrees higher would be like " separate the tares (defects, errors) of the wheat (truth) "
Our Spirit Thought Adjuster can not guide us if our hearts and minds are not "reasonably" harmonized,that is, within our current possibilities.


Hey Alina, the path to Lucifer is open to all of us as well. We live on a sin stricken world (55:5.1) Mortal creatures living on a sin-stricken, evil-dominated, self-seeking, isolated world, such as Urantia So clearly there is a lot of sinning going on and on our planet we have the added benefit of having thought adjusters and the spirit of truth so we can really grab a hold of these same sophistries that lucifer did.

I believe the authors give an example here in the paragraph below of just what they mean by self-assertion. It would seem that self-assertion in Lucifers case was really as simple as asserting his so called "liberty", but here is my take on this: Lucifer wanted to make a confederation, which is what will happen when we are in light and life (all systems will be equal and together in one confederation) right now we have federations and a heirarchy. He wanted all the benefits of light and life right now, he also believed that all beings are equal, and even all universes equal. He didn't believe in a hierarchy. He wanted every being to stand on equal footing and he wanted mortals to be allowed to forgo the evolutionary experience. Really he was like a fat kid in a candy store wanting all the treats at this very instant with no effort required. When all the Universes are settled in life and light, we will basically be at the point at which Lucifer craved. He really foolishly believed that his mind was just as divine as any of the other universe rulers haha, he thought that all beings could self-govern and be equal. This is why so many spiritual beings were attracted to his sophistry is because he took a truth such as what will happen at light and life and sought to "liberate" everyone to that point in an instant, and he even foolishly believed that his mind and other spiritual beings had innate divinity, he even thought beings like the ancient of days were his equal. The Ancient of Days in the u.b is described as the most powerful finite beings, they even over ride Michael in terms of authority, the fact that Lucifer actually thought he was equal to one of these beings just shows how delusional he was.

That is just part of it though, obviously there is much more...

(53:4.2)Self-assertion was the battle cry of the Lucifer rebellion. One of his chief arguments was that, if self-government was good and right for the Melchizedeks and other groups, it was equally good for all orders of intelligence. He was bold and persistent in the advocacy of the "equality of mind" and "the brotherhood of intelligence." He maintained that all government should be limited to the local planets and their voluntary confederation into the local systems. All other supervision he disallowed. He promised the Planetary Princes that they should rule the worlds as supreme executives. He denounced the location of legislative activities on the constellation headquarters and the conduct of judicial affairs on the universe capital. He contended that all these functions of government should be concentrated on the system capitals and proceeded to set up his own legislative assembly and organized his own tribunals under the jurisdiction of Satan. And he directed that the princes on the apostate worlds do the same.


So the question is how is self-assertion sin? or "delibrate disloyalty to deity". The fact is that evolution is the right of every being in our universe. Obstacles are there because of the divine overcontrol of God, and in our universe God the sevenfold. Lucifer sought to take away the exciting adventure of evolving through experience. We see this on our world all the time, this is why we live on a sin stricken world. Liberty is one of the most dangerous things in the hands of an impatient and immature person. There are many countries who are evolving through the tribal state it would be a sin to attempt to take away their evolutional experience of evolving past this. This would be an attempt to "short-circuit" time and it would be "false-liberty".

54:1.3.Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled.
True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity,
and divine obligations.


54:1.2.True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress.
False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space.
Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity.


The author mentions false liberty as the error of time and the evil of space. Evolution is creativity in time, Lucifer sought to short-circuit time for all beings therefore he was committing maximum disloyalty. Time and space is there for a reason, its through time and space that we connect to Deity. That is why if we attempt to short-circuit it we are being disloyal.

(54:2.3) Lucifer's folly was the attempt to do the nondoable, to short-circuit time in an experiential universe. Lucifer's crime was the attempted creative disenfranchisement of every personality in Satania, the unrecognized abridgment of the creature's personal participation—freewill participation—in the long evolutionary struggle to attain the status of light and life both individually and collectively. In so doing this onetime Sovereign of your system set the temporal purpose of his own will directly athwart the eternal purpose of God's will as it is revealed in the bestowal of free will upon all personal creatures. The Lucifer rebellion thus threatened the maximum possible infringement of the freewill choice of the ascenders and servers of the system of Satania—a threat forevermore to deprive every one of these beings of the thrilling experience of contributing something personal and unique to the slowly erecting monument to experiential wisdom which will sometime exist as the perfected system of Satania. Thus does the Lucifer manifesto, masquerading in the habiliments of liberty, stand forth in the clear light of reason as a monumental threat to consummate the theft of personal liberty and to do it on a scale that has been approached only twice in all the history of Nebadon.

Here are a couple more quotes regarding this topic.

118:7.4.Sin in time-conditioned space clearly proves the temporal liberty—even license—of the finite will.
Sin depicts immaturity dazzled by the freedom of the relatively sovereign will of personality while failing to perceive
the supreme obligations and duties of cosmic citizenship.


54:1.5.Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness.
Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination.
Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the
forerunner of abject bondage.

Edited by -Scott-, 10 April 2013 - 04:20 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#3 Alina

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:43 PM

Thanks Scott, This clarification is fine. in my opinion, for translators and correctors of UB. because language españosl says "autoaserción" when it should say "autoafirmación".
The word assertion is not used by us. In Spanish says "autoaserción y libertad"
I think it would be better "autoafirmación y libertad."
But it is just an opinion regarding the translation.
Maybe if you do not know Spanish, do not get me much. :huh:

But,Yes I agree, the error of Lucifer was wanting to hasten the evolution, the time and believing in freedom false. It is impossible for everyone to have the same intelligence, It is not the same as "equal opportunities" Other thing was the utopia of the freedom, many people still pursue by not having the true meaning of freedom.

The True and False Freedom.

(613.3) 54:1.1 Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.


:) But, Love always triumphs:


(618.4) 54:6.1 Whatever the difficulties evolutionary mortals may encounter in their efforts to understand the Lucifer rebellion, it should be clear to all reflective thinkers that the technique of dealing with the rebels is a vindication of divine love. The loving mercy extended to the rebels does seem to have involved many innocent beings in trials and tribulations, but all these distraught personalities may securely depend upon the all-wise Judges to adjudicate their destinies in mercy as well as justice.

(618.5) 54:6.2 In all their dealings with intelligent beings, both the Creator Son and his Paradise Father are love dominated. It is impossible to comprehend many phases of the attitude of the universe rulers toward rebels and rebellion — sin and sinners — unless it be remembered that. God as a Father takes precedence over all other phases of Deity manifestation in all the dealings of divinity with humanity. It should also be recalled that the Paradise Creator Sons are all mercy motivated.



Thank you!

Alina
***

#4 -Scott-

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:56 PM

@Alina in South America there is an example of people trying to take away all the experiential roadbumps away from other people, perhaps you are familiar with Liberation Theology?
If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#5 menno

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:02 PM

Hi Alina;

I have always had the belief that there is a connection or a pattern between what Lucifer promoted and carried out; and how cancer starts within the human body.

Example: in a perfectly normal body there are somewhere around 66 trillion cells working in harmony and unified with a common goal ...the well being of the "Whole" and then one day...one cell gets the idea to do "his own thing" the heck with the whole body.. and then some cells around this "rebel cell" say: "look at Joe. He is doing his own thing and the heck with the others. Let's do what he is doing"

And so it goes from there.

Now comes the interesting part. In a normal healthy body, with a healthy mind (not affected by various types of stress) The "Command and Control" part of the subconscious mind becomes aware of the rebellious cells and sends out the order to isolate that part of the body. No food delivered to that area.. No waste products picked up.

This fact has been discovered by medical researchers who have performed autopsies on people who have lived a long life and died of old age. They discovered these small encapsulated areas in various parts of the body and have surmised that this is what had happened.

Just something that I thought would fit in with your thread topic here.

Menno

#6 Alina

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:07 PM

@Alina in South America there is an example of people trying to take away all the experiential roadbumps away from other people, perhaps you are familiar with Liberation Theology?


Scott, please explain to me, do not know what is Liberation Theology? :o

#7 -Scott-

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:14 PM

Scott, please explain to me, do not know what is Liberation Theology? :o


It is a movement that started in South America that seeks to Liberate people from all forms of "perceived injustice" whether it be social inequality/ bad social conditions, financial inequality/conditions, political inequality etc. Its really a similar sort of idea that Lucifer had, Lucifer wanted to "liberate" all the men and angels from perceived inequality, and he also wanted to liberate beings from going through the experiential process of overcoming their trials and tribulations. The similarities between the ideas of Liberation Theology and the Lucifer Rebellion is really interesting IMO. The advocates of Liberation Theology want to take away all the stimulating challenges that "perceived victims" face. Obviously it doesn't include all of Lucifer's ideas but I think its fascinating the ones that are there.

The exact quote from wikipedia on Liberation Theology is that it seeks "liberation from unjust economic, political, or social conditions". The thing is that those "conditions" are part of the evolutionary indispensables that where put into plan by Deity, and are meant to be there so that we can experientially overcome them in time. Our angelic care-takers could intervene and make our world paradise and liberate us from all our challenges but that would be sin, that is one of the ideas that Lucifer put forward. This Liberation Theology like Lucifer completely ignore time. Its very a very inviting notion to want to be liberated RIGHT NOW, and not await the natural experiential flow of truth through time.

Edited by -Scott-, 10 April 2013 - 06:47 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#8 Alina

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:12 PM

Hi!

I do not know if have exact relationship with Lucifer, because we have Free Will to make positive changes in ourselves but errors always present inheritance, often...

We know that everything has to be earned and is a problem in countries like ours that still people who want that "everything will come from above." :rolleyes:
How to make them understand that we will never be all equal, that equality is impossible?
It would be utopia, false freedom ... mental inertia, often inherited, others acquired from various causes...
It is a problem, dear Scott. The people, not all of course, has to grow up and take off the legacy of its
socio-political heritage. By this I mean fanaticism that often, too, do not let reason. But something is changing in the way people think.

In that. Menno says is like, ideas encyst in the course of generations if nothing is done by the real progress.

And I repeat something I like "Equal opportunity" but this would, in addition to the education theme, etc ... etc... is a string.


Greetings,

Alina
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#9 -Scott-

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:46 PM

I think one of the benefits of the u.b is that we know we can be patient, and live as patient persons. If people knew that civilization evolves in due time I am sure that would help stop some of the desire for dramatic false liberation. They could realize that all the gifts they desire will come to them when the time is right. Jesus said "my time has not yet come" or something to that effect, he was the perfect example of a human who was in harmony with the Supreme.

Of course our spiritual consciousness in and of itself is not aware of time it takes a cosmic approach to be able to perceive the flow of truth in time. A person who just thinks with ideals will want change now and right now.

Edited by -Scott-, 10 April 2013 - 07:52 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#10 Alina

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:37 PM

I totally agree with you!
The UB helps a lot, a lot to understand what was almost incomprehensible and also injustice! and we drove to the speculation and conjecture which too often left us more confused than before. As if it were not open out of ignorance.



Here a interesting quote:


(1779.6) 160:4.14 Success may generate courage and promote confidence, but wisdom comes only from the experiences of adjustment to the results of one’s failures. Men who prefer optimistic illusions to reality can never become wise. Only those who face facts and adjust them to ideals can achieve wisdom. Wisdom embraces both the fact and the ideal and therefore saves its devotees from both of those barren extremes of philosophy — the man whose idealism excludes facts and the materialist who is devoid of spiritual outlook. Those timid souls who can only keep up the struggle of life by the aid of continuous false illusions of success are doomed to suffer failure and experience defeat as they ultimately awaken from the dream world of their own imaginations



#11 Bonita

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:48 AM

Self-assertion means doing one's own will instead of God's will; loyalty to the self rather than to God.

#12 Alina

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:01 AM

Self-assertion means doing one's own will instead of God's will; loyalty to the self rather than to God.


Only in relation to God or also in behavior with other people?

Thanks

Alina
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#13 Bonita

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 10:01 AM

Only in relation to God or also in behavior with other people?


If you're relating to God, then by definition, you are relating to other people. Jesus' gospel is the kingdom of God and the brotherhood of man. They go together like hot dogs and mustard, or gin and tonic, or whatever floats your boat. :D

If you're truly relating to God, then you're generally inclined to relate to other people according to your relationship with God. That would mean that you do not promote the desires of your own will, but instead will that God's will be done, a will which you recognize as better for everyone than your own self-centered will.


p1119:7 102:2.2 One of the characteristic peculiarities of genuine religious assurance is that, notwithstanding the absoluteness of its affirmations and the stanchness of its attitude, the spirit of its expression is so poised and tempered that it never conveys the slightest impression of self-assertion or egoistic exaltation.

#14 Alina

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:28 PM

If you're relating to God, then by definition, you are relating to other people. Jesus' gospel is the kingdom of God and the brotherhood of man. They go together like hot dogs and mustard, or gin and tonic, or whatever floats your boat. :D

If you're truly relating to God, then you're generally inclined to relate to other people according to your relationship with God. That would mean that you do not promote the desires of your own will, but instead will that God's will be done, a will which you recognize as better for everyone than your own self-centered will.


p1119:7 102:2.2 One of the characteristic peculiarities of genuine religious assurance is that, notwithstanding the absoluteness of its affirmations and the stanchness of its attitude, the spirit of its expression is so poised and tempered that it never conveys the slightest impression of self-assertion or egoistic exaltation.




Hi Bonita! :)

Thus the lack of the transcendent, of the genuine values ​​produces selfish man. Apparently and according to UB. binds with prejudice, too. So is taking other deficiencies.

In these times, is much needed the resurgence of faith, of personal religion, because,definitely is all that lifts us above the pettiness, and make us feel and experience the true brotherhood among men.



(1774.5) 160:1.13 Prejudice blinds the soul to the recognition of truth, and prejudice can be removed only by the sincere devotion of the soul to the adoration of a cause that is all-embracing and all-inclusive of one’s fellow men. Prejudice is inseparably linked to selfishness. Prejudice can be eliminated only by the abandonment of self-seeking and by substituting therefor the quest of the satisfaction of the service of a cause that is not only greater than self, but one that is even greater than all humanity — the search for God, the attainment of divinity. The evidence of maturity of personality consists in the transformation of human desire so that it constantly seeks for the realization of those values which are highest and most divinely real.

(1774.6) 160:1.14 In a continually changing world, in the midst of an evolving social order, it is impossible to maintain settled and established goals of destiny. Stability of personality can be experienced only by those who have discovered and embraced the living God as the eternal goal of infinite attainment. And thus to transfer one’s goal from time to eternity, from earth to Paradise, from the human to the divine, requires that man shall become regenerated, converted, be born again; that he shall become the re-created child of the divine spirit; that he shall gain entrance into the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. All philosophies and religions which fall short of these ideals are immature. The philosophy which I teach, linked with the gospel which you preach, represents the new religion of maturity, the ideal of all future generations. And this is true because our ideal is final, infallible, eternal, universal, absolute, and infinite.


Greetings,

Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 11 April 2013 - 01:02 PM.


#15 Carolyn

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 01:31 PM

Dear Alina,

My simple answer to your question:
Self-assertion is 1) Total selfishness; me, me ,me, (Judas Iscariot)
2) Marxism,
3) Socialism,
4) Communism.
All "kill God."

In humility,

Carolyn
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#16 Bonita

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:12 PM

(1774.5) 160:1.13 Prejudice can be eliminated only by the abandonment of self-seeking and by substituting therefor the quest of the satisfaction of the service of a cause that is not only greater than self, but one that is even greater than all humanity — the search for God, the attainment of divinity.

The service of a cause is not meant to mean the socio-ethical-political causes we read about in the papers and see on the news. The cause they're talking about is the search for values, for spirit, for religion. Religion comes first and then ethics follow.

170:3.8 But Jesus did not put ethics in the place of religion. He taught religion as a cause and ethics as a result.

#17 Alina

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:17 PM

Hello Carolyn and Bonita!

Dear Carolyn, along with what you say, sometimes among humans, beyond politics, things happen in their daily relationships, family, friendship, because some always think they own the truth and this is "imposed" to the other , or try to enforce their ideas, either way, there are no limits,when the ego wants to "eat". :D So the moral values are important to good relations. Starting from the family, then extends to society and so... and where there is no moral, less can be no ethics, seems that ethics is a disused word.
As wrote Bonita, is the effect of the lack of genuine spirituality, this is because of many errors.
170:3.8 But Jesus did not put ethics in the place of religion. He taught religion as a cause and ethics as a result.

Modern society, it seems that the most important is the competition for everything. all to feel superior. Materialism, not the material, has a big part in all of this imbalance, too.
And so you can not advance in the religious, collectively, by of course you can individually.
Competition is good, when used for real growth, then you can help others, but when it is to feed the ego without another important objective, is disastrous.

(909.6) 81:6.25 The greatest twentieth-century influences contributing to the furtherance of civilization and the advancement of culture are the marked increase in world travel and the unparalleled improvements in methods of communication. But the improvement in education has not kept pace with the expanding social structure; neither has the modern appreciation of ethics developed in correspondence with growth along more purely intellectual and scientific lines. And modern civilization is at a standstill in spiritual development and the safeguarding of the home institution.


Love...

Alina
***

Edited by Alina, 11 April 2013 - 04:42 PM.


#18 Alina

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:21 PM

Hi again! :)


In my previous post I wrote about the competition, without goal or purpose important.
Now I was reading and just found this quote!


The Evolution of Competition

(805.1) 71:5.1 Competition is essential to social progress, but competition, unregulated, breeds violence. In current society, competition is slowly displacing war in that it determines the individual’s place in industry, as well as decreeing the survival of the industries themselves. (Murder and war differ in their status before the mores, murder having been outlawed since the early days of society, while war has never yet been outlawed by mankind as a whole.)


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#19 Carolyn

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:30 PM

Dear Bonita and Alina,

How informative to read your posts. Thank you.

"[The service of a cause is not meant to mean the socio-ethical-political causes we read about in the papers and see on the news. The cause they're talking about is the search for values, for spirit, for religion. Religion comes first and then ethics follow.

170:3.8 But Jesus did not put ethics in the place of religion. He taught religion as a cause and ethics as a result.]

Sometimes using another view to see a point can be helpful. There are visitors reading the posts here with little personal experience of reading TUB. I think that to refer to philosophies, more universal, might help them to then seek to know more; a nudge?
I agree with your thoughts and of course appreciate your quote. I enjoy reading all your posts.

Dear Alina,

Much love in your post. Thank you. Your different viewpoint is so valuable to the forum as is Bonita's viewpoint. The female view is nice to read at times.

Faith sister,

Carolyn
"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."

#20 Carolyn

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:46 PM

Dear Alina,

Wars have always been hard on the individual. For women war is terrible. This has been so since civilizations has come into being.
Unfortunately, there will always be mortals, who like Lucifer, want to rule with a heavy hand. We defeat one and another appears. The battle against tyranny is perhaps endless until TUB finds its way into more hearts. We fight a different kind of war. We carry the message of the Father of Love. Love removes hate and hate is the father of war. Dictators are selfish and egotistical. They rise up from deformed ideas of "liberty." Every generation has its rulers who want to "hurry" the process of governing with policies that eventually always lead to wars. Whether to take land form others, push their religious beliefs, or just to be powerful over others, evil dictates their purposes. Love is not. I love the 5th Epochal Revelation, TUB, because it teaches us that we are each and everyone known and loved. We are special and no matter who says not, we KNOW what we KNOW.

Faith sister,

Carolyn

Edited by Carolyn, 11 April 2013 - 07:47 PM.

"Knowledge is possessed only by sharing; it is safeguarded by wisdom and socialized by love."




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