22 replies to this topic

[Howard509]

(1583.1) ^140:8.27 The three apostles were shocked this afternoon when they realized that their Master’s religion made no provision for spiritual self-examination. All religions before and after the times of Jesus, even Christianity, carefully provide for conscientious self-examination. But not so with the religion of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus’ philosophy of life is without religious introspection. The carpenter’s son never taught character building; he taught character growth, declaring that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.

What does it mean that Jesus made no provision for spiritual self-examination? How do we repent of our sins unless we examine our thoughts and behaviors to confess them before God?

[Absonite]

Very carefully notice that the quote clearly equates spiritual self-examination with contientious religious introspection done for building character - and building is contrasted with growing.


Building happens from the outside in. Building results fom putting constituents together to form a structure, like using blocks of Lego. Character building occurs from the outside in.

Growing happens from the inside out. Growing results from nourishing to encourage progress, like caring for a planted seed. Character growth occurs from the inside out.


It's no accident that the seed is said to be mustard. Immediately one familiar with the mustard seed teaching knows that it is about faith. So faith is how one nourishes character growth. Faith occurs with specific regard to following the Fragment's guidance. Since the Fragment is within, then character growth happens starting on the inside and proceeds to express to the outside via relationships with others.

The point here focuses on trying to clarify the difference between striving all alone - and working with the Fagment as pilot.

The epic mistake not to make is concluding that having faith means that it's ok to shut the mind off and sit around sustaining an air-headed attitude - pretending to be prancing around with cute kittens, fluffy bunnies, baby chicks, etc... in a pollyannishly perfect world. Just as a farmer does more than merely throw seeds onto the ground then lolligag around until harvest, one would be wise to till the soil, water the seed, weed the garden, and keep crows away from the crop. And there are indeed a variety of tools that assist farmers with caring for the environment of that growing mustard seed.

And remember: the bottom line is partnership with the Fragment - not doing it all alone.

Edited by Absonite, 19 March 2013 - 04:20 AM.

[Bonita]

Jesus' philosophy of life without religious introspection does not preclude the necessity to correct one's own wrong doing, but it does teach a greater method, one of self-forgetfulness.

p1094:07 Growth is also predicated on the discovery of selfhood accompanied by self-criticism--conscience, for conscience is really the criticism of oneself by one's own value-habits, personal ideals.

p1459:5 132:3.5 But truth can never become man's possession without the exercise of faith. This is true because man's thoughts, wisdom, ethics, and ideals will never rise higher than his faith, his sublime hope. And all such true faith is predicated on profound reflection, sincere self-criticism, and uncompromising moral consciousness. Faith is the inspiration of the spiritized creative imagination.

Spiritual growth depends on moral consciousness and moral consciousness is accompanied by human moral conscience, the initial step. But the moral conscience is only superanimal, or subspiritual. It is the human psyche's understanding of morality. TUB exhorts us to strive for a higher spiritual understanding. The Adjuster is not the conscience, yet without its exposure to ideals, we cannot begin to strive for true spiritual insight into reality.

p1207:07 Do not confuse and confound the mission and influence of the Adjuster with what is commonly called conscience; they are not directly related. Conscience is a human and purely psychic reaction. It is not to be despised, but it is hardly the voice of God to the soul, which indeed the Adjuster's would be if such a voice could be heard. Conscience, rightly, admonishes you to do right; but the Adjuster, in addition, endeavors to tell you what truly is right; that is, when and as you are able to perceive the Monitor's leading.

p1005:02 Conscience, untaught by experience and unaided by reason, never has been, and never can be, a safe and unerring guide to human conduct. Conscience is not a divine voice speaking to the human soul. It is merely the sum total of the moral and ethical content of the mores of any current stage of existence; it simply represents the humanly conceived ideal of reaction in any given set of circumstances.

One's conscience, the consciousness of wrongdoing, should lead to a desire for improvement. What Jesus was against was penance, the feeling of guilt and the need to purify, cleanse and wash away sin by extraordinary measures. He does desire contriteness of heart in order to avoid conceit, but not self-punishment, self-denial or any other form of appeasement for guilt.

p1583:01 The carpenter's son never taught character building; he taught character growth, declaring that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.

What Jesus prefers is that all feelings of guilt be abolished by the love of doing God's will. This is what leads to spiritual growth; and, since all growth is unconscious, Jesus teaches self-forgetfulness.

p1736:04 My disciples must not only cease to do evil but learn to do well; you must not only be cleansed from all conscious sin, but you must refuse to harbor even the feelings of guilt. If you confess your sins, they are forgiven; therefore must you maintain a conscience void of offense.

p1609:03 At one of the evening conferences, Andrew asked Jesus: "Master, are we to practice self-denial as John taught us, or are we to strive for the self-control of your teaching? Wherein does your teaching differ from that of John?" Jesus answered: "John indeed taught you the way of righteousness in accordance with the light and laws of his fathers, and that was the religion of self-examination and self-denial. But I come with a new message of self-forgetfulness and self-control. I show to you the way of life as revealed to me by my Father in heaven."

[Howard509]

I am glad we all taking seriously the need to grow in Christ from a life of sin to being perfect, just as the Father is perfect. This is a process that begins here and now.

[Bonita]

What do you mean by a life of sin? I, for one, am not a sinner. I am, however, deeply familiar with evil. Gratefully, TUB explains the difference between evil and sin.

148:4.3-4 Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father's will.
Sin is the conscious, knowing, and deliberate transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Sin is the measure of unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed.

None of us can escape from the lessons of evil, but we are all fully capable of avoiding sin. Sin must be a conscious choice and you must also be capable of understanding the fact that your choice is disloyal to God's will. Many of us, myself included, are guilty of evil, but it does not rise to the level of sin until knowingly embraced.

A life of sin is not a life at all. Well-intentioned religionists have often used the term sin inappropriately and I think it is time to talk seriously about avoiding its usage when it comes to the religious life. Only God knows our true intentions; only God knows if we are willfully and deliberately disloyal or merely acting out of ignorance and confusion.

89:10.2 Sin must be redefined as deliberate disloyalty to Deity. There are degrees of disloyalty: the partial loyalty of indecision; the divided loyalty of confliction; the dying loyalty of indifference; and the death of loyalty exhibited in devotion to godless ideals.

[Bradly aka/fanofVan]

Yes Bonita....this goes to Howard's other post about the Revelation being somehow a supplement or compliment to the bible and christianity.....and it is certainly not those. Too many religionists truly like and embrace the old "sin and redemption" song and dance. The original sin concept makes us all guilty and subject to sacrificial redemptions....perfecting is hardly considered at all. Just sin and redeem, sin and redeem for we are taught one cannot get salvation or to heaven by "works". It's crazy. "I don't deserve salvation and cannot earn it, so what's the point?". Salvation itself, like sin, is misunderstood by many or most. Indeed, the UB teaches we are, by nature, righteous and must learn egoism and materialism and the pleasures of sin to the loss of happiness....a poor substitute, no? People need to know we are here to error in experience to discern the superior way and further, that inattention to our intentions is disasterous. Spirit realization is a progressive experience or it is not experienced in any great measure or effect. Like Bonita, I have sinned but do not now. But error? That's job #1!! The challenge is to replace old errors with new truths realized and activated and move on to the next errors to come. Our velocity of decisions and actions and response and adjustments should increase if we error well enough, no?

(1576.3) ^140:6.3 “I demand of you a righteousness that shall exceed the righteousness of those who seek to obtain the Father’s favor by almsgiving, prayer, and fasting. If you would enter the kingdom, you must have a righteousness that consists in love, mercy, and truth — the sincere desire to do the will of my Father in heaven.”

(1576.4) ^140:6.4 Then said Simon Peter: “Master, if you have a new commandment, we would hear it. Reveal the new way to us.” Jesus answered Peter: “You have heard it said by those who teach the law: ‘You shall not kill; that whosoever kills shall be subject to judgment.’ But I look beyond the act to uncover the motive. I declare to you that every one who is angry with his brother is in danger of condemnation. He who nurses hatred in his heart and plans vengeance in his mind stands in danger of judgment. You must judge your fellows by their deeds; the Father in heaven judges by the intent.

(1576.5) ^140:6.5 “You have heard the teachers of the law say, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that every man who looks upon a woman with intent to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. You can only judge men by their acts, but my Father looks into the hearts of his children and in mercy adjudges them in accordance with their intents and real desires.”

(1233.5) ^112:5.9 This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all. But it does signify that all will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.

[Bradly aka/fanofVan]

Ahhhh.....the intersections of "coincidence"....from the Foundation home page today:



Urantia Book Teachings


“You can only judge men by their acts, but my Father looks into the hearts of his children and in mercy adjudges them in accordance with their intents and real desires.”

Jesus, The Urantia Book, (1576.5) 140:6.5

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 19 March 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[Bradly aka/fanofVan]

Golly, more intersections....from Alina's post yesterday on the Grandfanda topic: Alina posted:

"Yes, the choice is ours, between these cosmic tensions we must find the balance needed to learn to know how to choose, between truth and error."

(1300.6) ^118:7.2 Even the supreme correlation of all past, present, and future choice does not invalidate the authenticity of such choosings. It rather indicates the foreordained trend of the cosmos and suggests foreknowledge of those volitional beings who may, or may not, elect to become contributory parts of the experiential actualization of all reality.

(1300.7) ^118:7.3 Error in finite choosing is time bound and time limited. It can exist only in time and within the evolving presence of the Supreme Being. Such mistaken choosing is time possible and indicates (besides the incompleteness of the Supreme) that certain range of choice with which immature creatures must be endowed in order to enjoy universe progression by making freewill contact with reality.

(1301.1) ^118:7.4 Sin in time-conditioned space clearly proves the temporal liberty — even license — of the finite will. Sin depicts immaturity dazzled by the freedom of the relatively sovereign will of personality while failing to perceive the supreme obligations and duties of cosmic citizenship.

[Bradly aka/fanofVan]

Urantia Book Teachings


"Do not become discouraged by the discovery that you are human. Human nature may tend toward evil, but it is not inherently sinful."

Jesus, The Urantia Book, (1739.3) 156:5.8



OK!!...getting spooky now. The third intersect in 20 minutes, also on the home page:

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 19 March 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[-Scott-]

(1583.1) ^140:8.27 The three apostles were shocked this afternoon when they realized that their Master’s religion made no provision for spiritual self-examination. All religions before and after the times of Jesus, even Christianity, carefully provide for conscientious self-examination. But not so with the religion of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus’ philosophy of life is without religious introspection. The carpenter’s son never taught character building; he taught character growth, declaring that the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. But Jesus said nothing which would proscribe self-analysis as a prevention of conceited egotism.

Your spiritual consciousness alone is going to want to serve that self. Instead of focusing its attention on God. In essence you will be using it to serve your self. Your spiritual consciousness will be like "hey my self is way down there let me just keep my attention on it instead of god", instead of focusing on God and allowing god to reach down and minister to that self. Those spiritual ministries will grow you if you provide that bridge to them. If you allow your faith to turn into trust and you trust God, he will grow you. "seek the higher and the lesser will be found". If you reach up for God, all of your being (including your self) will follow you up.

Of coarse that does not mean you don't have other avenues to approach the self. You still have a moral consciousness that you can use assuming you have began to utilize that 2nd cosmic intuition.

Edited by -Scott-, 19 March 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Bonita]

I found this little essay I wrote years ago. Maybe it has relevance here.

We really can't know our own spiritual progress. The habit of self-examination and evaluation, as an attempt to determine progress, is not always productive because it centers attention on self-criticism rather than self-realization. The idea is to take attention away from the self, to forget the self. On the other hand, self-analysis in relation to how we interact with others can be useful in avoiding egotism and social friction. But this is different than spiritual self-examination which is a self-evaluation of one's own "rightness" and "wrongness" in the eyes of God. If we can't judge other peoples' "rightness" or "wrongness", then how can we judge our own?

If we are always attempting to examine ourselves, then I say that we are wasting valuable spiritual energy in a fruitless pursuit. A truly self-less individual will not concern himself with this. If we are honestly attempting to live according to the leadings of the Spirit within, why should it matter how much fruit or how large and juicy the fruit produced? It is about the intention to strive to grow fruit; that is all God sees and cares about. Leave the rest up to God because he is the husbandman.

1945:04 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman."

p1946:4 180:2.6 And when the Father's hand of discipline is laid upon the vine, it is done in love, in order that the branches may bear much fruit. And a wise husbandman cuts away only the dead and fruitless branches.

Likewise, a chart of accomplishments is very "Old Testament". God does not sit on his throne with a tally sheet adding up columns of plusses and minuses on our behalf. The spiritual road is not a straight climb up, nor is it a check list where we can cross off each task as it's completed. We don't have to win spiritual favors, there are no award packages, merit prizes or bonuses granted for doing our homework or putting in extra hours. In fact, we can assume that we're making progress if our life's decisions keep getting harder and harder while the peace within becomes greater and greater.

We are all human and we all succumb to self criticism. The problem is that the criticism is not always wise or directed properly. If we are busy looking at ourselves and criticizing ourselves, then we are not looking at God. It is there with him that we find our real and true selves, the child of the Father, and he never criticizes, NEVER. He may chastise and correct, but never, never makes us feel inadequate or lacking in any way, because the truth is that we are not lacking. God has given us everything we need, we just have to realize it.

48:7.6 4. Few mortals ever dare to draw anything like the sum of personality credits established by the combined ministries of nature and grace. The majority of impoverished souls are truly rich, but they refuse to believe it.

[Bradly aka/fanofVan]

Thanks Sister. In my navel staring days, it occured to me how little I was actually doing and how focused I was on me and in hiding me from doing or interacting with others and their/my fears and hypocracies and prejudice. I was judgemental of others.... and of myself. They were unworthy. I was unworthy. Now I reflect and contrast my responses to every situation and encounter with and by the light of His Way. The wwjd came to help me (what would Jesus DO...not think - it's not wwjt !!). As I came to do less introspection and trust my intentions, intuitions, and caring about righteousness, I learned (am learning) to release the burden of outcome and strategies and to seek, within the moment, what to DO to bring light to the situation and help others know peace and release the grip of fear and anxiety. Too much judgement. We are not to judge ourselves either. Discernment, learning, choosing better by error, thinking to find meanings and values in everyday intersections to change our RESPONSE, both internally and externally to that which we find before us. This is a maturation result of doing more than thinking and thinking more than judging and doing all of that with less self and a prayerful life speaking to and listening to Father within. We must remove ourself from the center of our universe before we can move the seat of our identity from material to spiritual. Or so I have come to believe.

[Bonita]

And also think of the amazing truth that we have living within us a God so willing and eager to share himself that the mere flicker of a loving thought is sanctified and spiritualized; his Spirit gravity is so powerful and perfect so as to capture a faithful thought as miniscule as a mustard seed.

[Howard509]

Of course, until we attain perfect in eternity, we will sin from time to time. Any act committed in selfishness is sin. There are also sins of commission, in which we don't do the good to which we are called to do. What matters is the progress in our life.

Edited by Howard509, 19 March 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[Bradly aka/fanofVan]

I do not presume to speak of any others' choices Howard....or their motives. You mean biblical sinning? Any act against the commandments sinning? But that is so shallow a measure my brother. Jesus said sin lies in one's heart BEFORE any word or deed. But evil, or error, is an incorrect or unfruitful intention, or an immature and unfruitful act but with a pure heart/intention. So, no, not all sin or must sin....this is for those who know the better way and choose the inferior way, usually for self gain of one sort or another.

I am intriqued by the nonact or omission (you mistakenly called "commision" but I understand what you mean) or not doing "the good to which we are called to do". I rarely know what to do....and then, not do it. And procrastination is evil to be sure. But patience is not. Non-intereference can be the "right" thing to do in some cases as well....all problems are not mine to solve (thank the Lord for everybody's sake). Confusion regarding strategies or tactics remains even with a pure heart of good intent. I found it actually paralysing once upon a time....so concerned to not do the wrong thing, I couldn't choose the right thing. So omission may occur IF it is self serving in mind but not, in my mind, when discretion may be the more valorous response.

But you touch upon a profound teaching in the Revelation....a positive response to others' sin and evil rather than any form of passivity. Jesus was seldom passive. And yet he warned of casting pearls before swine (I know you know that one) and when Ganid was confused by Jesus' lack of care, concern, and ministry outreach to the beggar, there is another lesson. We are told to not be over sympathetic to those who lie in the bed of their own making, that such can even lead to a self indulgence of pity. This is also part of maturity I think....not how to feel and approach all others and all situations, not to choose the better way, but rather, to discern how to add positive impact or when to just let things go for another soul or another day or Father's ministers to deal with a particular situation. Sometimes, by omission, we at least do not make things worse I feel. But I agree that cowardice or selfishness or laziness are poor intentions and have no righteousness attached so we must learn to discern much in our evil....or the error of our immature and inexperienced ways.

God does not forgive evil. He ignores it. God does not forgive sin. He forgives the sinner. Sin does not exist anymore than does evil or they do not exist except in the limited realms in which they originate....that is the mind from which they spring. The individual mind and Father relationship therein suffer by both our errors and our intentional sin and not by any punishment by Father but by His divine laws. Sin is its own punishment. Evil is unpunished except by the consequences it brings to learn the better way thereby which punishments cease immediately upon so choosing better. And in this way I agree, "what matters is the progress in our life." as you say above. As to the original topic, it is taught that soul progress is a function of two things: the quantity of choices in one's life and the quality of choices made combine to measure or determine our progress. And while self awareness may require some self evaluation, such a focus remains on the ME and does not necesarrily increase either the quantity or the quality of choosing. It is by choosing and discovering the error within each choice that we truly learn to choose more wisely. The experiential element is critical I think. And we must be aware of far more than ourself and focused on that which is not self or important to self to grow. Our duty is to the experiential reality of the Supreme and the soul....that reality is within the encounters and relationships of our mind with that which is outside our mind and not inside....meanings and values are discovered in the truth, beauty, and goodness of others that we can witness, engage, and contribute thereto. Or so I believe.

[Bonita]

Selfishness can be considered sin only if the person being selfish fully understands God's will and deliberately chooses to be disloyal. There are many acts which appear to be selfish which may not be at all selfish when viewed from God's perspective. Many people connect selfishness with the ego, but yet the Adjuster does not disregard the needs of the ego when judging our motives. It is remarkable to me that God loves us so much that he considers the needs of our egos and our self-respect.

103:2.7 The Thought Adjuster does not disregard the personality values of the egoistic motive but does operate to place a slight preference upon the altruistic impulse as leading to the goal of human happiness and to the joys of the kingdom of heaven.

I really don't believe we are capable of judging other people's motives when it comes to selfishness. The self has rights as well as other's. This is the source of the moral conscience, the seed bed of spiritual growth, weighing the needs of the self against the needs of others. If what TUB says is true, then the Adjuster considers both and urges a slight preferences for the needs of others, without sacrificing entirely the needs of the self. Everyone must be cared for and God is not insensitive to that.

p1134:02 The self has rights as well as one's neighbors. Neither has exclusive claims upon the attention and service of the individual. Failure to resolve this problem gives origin to the earliest type of human guilt feelings.

[Alina]

No provision for spiritual self-examination?

I think it is not necessary, if this refers to ancient beliefs. It's best to live life as best you can, morals,
ethics derived from religious and spiritual experience, for me the best proof that consciousness can exist. If we pay attention, day by day, minute by minute ... What better examination of conscience, to live as well as possible and take advantage of our successes and our mistakes and act accordingly?
Of course, this is more difficult, requires effort as wrote Bonita Grandfanda topic.

I was thinking about the value of experience.
I can I watch?
-Yes, I can see my growth, my awareness of the progress or static, also from the error.
Then he asked me;
Should I remove all memory of my previous experiences to grow?
- No, no way, because all of them, good and evil, right andwrong, have formed the basis for what I am today.
This serves in my mental file for me to grow?
- Definitely, Yes!
All experience is valuable, because they are the steps by which we ascends, the important fact is to realize and acknowledge to separate the good from the bad, not as criticism, but to enhance future experiences. I think that only destroys the unwanted, ie what is useless, which lacks the value, which is too shallow.
How will I grow if I delete my experiences and I do not take it as part of learning in this planet decimal?
The answer is very simple:
-If it did, there is no growth, only a continued ... start again from 0.
The Supreme walking with us, together we can grow for growth of everything, but if we stop, or walk back, we lose everything.
When a new experience in life, should in my opinion, always have a connection, a door to the past, to be able to open it, from time to time to see if I'm really making progress.
Everyone is the architect of itself, each is a pioneer in life, because we are learning...
But of course, as Jesus said "...would not destroy the door but rather would seek for the key wherewith to unlock it.”
For me, this means that we try very gently and discretion when evaluating our past, present and future.For me, this is a good examination.

(1778.2) 160:3.4 My philosophy tells me that there are times when I must fight, if need be, for the defense of my concept of righteousness, but I doubt not that the Master, with a more mature type of personality, would easily and gracefully gain an equal victory by his superior and winsome technique of tact and tolerance. All too often, when we battle for the right, it turns out that both the victor and the vanquished have sustained defeat. I heard the Master say only yesterday that the “wise man, when seeking entrance through the locked door, would not destroy the door but rather would seek for the key where with to unlock it.” Too often we engage in a fight merely to convince ourselves that we are not afraid.

Greetings to all!

Alina
***

[-Scott-]

IMO perhaps one of the most direct ways we will experience the Supreme in this life is through the "individuality of the whole". IMO this is a cosmic harmony that when experienced will allow us to be "kindred minds" with other human beings who are experiencing that similar cosmic harmony within their being. IMO this is "individuality of the whole" is also "totality attitude". IMO this universal harmony is also a cosmic frame in which to view reality.

Edited by -Scott-, 19 March 2013 - 06:34 PM.

[Howard509]

^{(1454.1) 131:10.4} “The Father in heaven will not suffer a single child on earth to perish if that child has a desire to find the Father and truly longs to be like him. Our Father even loves the wicked and is always kind to the ungrateful. If more human beings could only know about the goodness of God, they would certainly be led to repent of their evil ways and forsake all known sin. All good things come down from the Father of light, in whom there is no variableness neither shadow of changing. The spirit of the true God is in man’s heart. He intends that all men should be brothers. When men begin to feel after God, that is evidence that God has found them, and that they are in quest of knowledge about him. We live in God and God dwells in us.

How do we repent of our evil ways and forsake all known sin unless we examine ourselves as to what our sins are?

[-Scott-]

How do we repent of our evil ways and forsake all known sin unless we examine ourselves as to what our sins are?

You can use your morale consciousness, instead of using your spirit insight. The authors use the term " spiritual self-examination" as what not to do. yet in the same paragraph they say its okay for "self-analysis". One approach is to look at something through purely a spiritual lense and the other is to take use that morale consciousness. That moral consciousness will take into consideration facts as well as spirit insight. Its literally that midway intuition. If you are looking at something purely from a spiritual perspective you won't be looking at the whole picture. The universe is not just spiritual, nor are we.

Edited by -Scott-, 19 March 2013 - 10:24 PM.