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Mother Mary and the Urantia Book


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#1 Howard509

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:13 PM

Though the Urantia Book states that Mary was not a virgin, that doesn't mean she isn't deserving of our veneration as the birth-giver of the Creator Son. Traditional Christian theology of both the East and West teaches that Mary was specifically chosen by God, just as Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc. were chosen, which raises the interesting question of why God chose her, what about her faith and character did God prefer over any other woman?

I believe that traditional Christian veneration of Mary fulfills a very basic human need for the divine feminine. In the Urantia Book, we learn of the divine feminine as the Mother Spirit. In the early 20th century, some Eastern Orthodox theologians speculated that when Jesus was conceived, not only was Mary purified of all sin, but she also became perfectly united with the Holy Spirit and is therefore the personification of the divine Sophia for humanity. Though not divine, she stands as superior to all human beings, and is our intercessor before her Son. While such a doctrine isn't specifically taught by the Urantia Book, I don't see it as contradicting the Urantia Book either.

As a side note, it is regrettable that the Wisdom or "Sophia" concept of the earliest Christian Trinitarians at Antioch (see emphasis, last quote) faded into the lost pages of early church history. This image of Sophia is in certain ways an accurate depiction of the local universe Mother Spirit concept of The Urantia Book. By the fourth century, Sophia was largely dropped in favor of the genderless Holy Spirit, or merged into the rising cult of Mary, the Theotokos ("God-bearer" or "Mother of God"). But there is great hope that she will be retrieved. As we noted previously, through the visionary theology of Vladimir Soloviev, a school of Orthodox "sophiology" arose in Russia in the nineteenth century to explore this ancient notion once again, and this revivified Sophia concept is, curiously, enjoying a renaissance both in Russia today and in the United States among eco-feminist thinkers and creation theologians. Is it possible that creative Orthodox theologians might someday revive the cultic basis for the veneration of the Mother Spirit and even the Infinite Mother Spirit?
http://urantia-book....ity_urantia.htm


Mary is not merely the instrument, but the direct positive condition of the Incarnation, its human aspect. Christ could not have been incarnate by some mechanical process, violating human nature. It was necessary for that nature itself to say for itself, by the mouth of the most pure human being: "Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it unto me according to Thy word."
http://en.wikipedia....)#Orthodox_view


Edited by Howard509, 11 March 2013 - 02:33 PM.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#2 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:12 PM

Hey Howard - You are right that both Joseph, Jesus' biological and natural human father, and Mary were specifically selected from among several candidates for Michael's final bestowal. There were multiple locations and multiple families considered. But there is significant contradiction in your presentation to the UB in two regards: first, christianity is but the more recent of many religious traditions of a "virgin" birth or otherwise miraculous conception of man-gods and super-humans throughout history. These fable and myths are but that. Second, no one, including any celestials and especially Mary are ever "intercessors" in any regard or manner related to Father, Son, or Spirit. Such intercession is another myth/fable and one devined by priests for their own power and perpetuation.

Now, having said that, Mary was selected. This is no small thing. As was Joseph. And neither would have been selected without the other. The choice was of a family unit within a culture of moral, social, and religious tradition of core family values and mental/emotional stabilities conducive to Jesus formative years as an individual religionist. Jesus was not born as Michael and knew not His legacy for twenty some years of normal, human progress in spirit and by mortal mind. It was critical that this "host" family be worthy of such an undertaking.

It is interesting that such a sexist church as the Roman christian church with such a sexist author as Paul would come to place Mary so high, and I agree that this does appeal to women (and should) and should give all men who believe women are inferior great pause. Too bad the Jesusonian view of total equality and partnership was not the institutional choice but Jesus was a radical in this and other regards and it was just too much for the church to accept. The Jewish and Roman and Mithraic cultures were male dominant and even the apostles did not readily understand or embrace Jesus point of view on this. Rick's OPAD recently began Part IV and there is described therein the selection process for this amazing family. Joseph believed Jesus was to be a spiritual uplifter and Mary clung to the Messiah concept of deliverer and they never reconciled these diverse positions completely. What a burden for any mother. Mary was a brilliant mother and deserves our respect and admiration. I wonder her delight upon awakening to be known throughout Nebadon as the human mother of the Master Son and creator of our local universe?

(1345.1) 122:1.2 Mary, the earth mother of Jesus, was a descendant of a long line of unique ancestors embracing many of the most remarkable women in the racial history of Urantia. Although Mary was an average woman of her day and generation, possessing a fairly normal temperament, she reckoned among her ancestors such well-known women as Annon, Tamar, Ruth, Bathsheba, Ansie, Cloa, Eve, Enta, and Ratta. No Jewish woman of that day had a more illustrious lineage of common progenitors or one extending back to more auspicious beginnings. Mary’s ancestry, like Joseph’s, was characterized by the predominance of strong but average individuals, relieved now and then by numerous outstanding personalities in the march of civilization and the progressive evolution of religion. Racially considered, it is hardly proper to regard Mary as a Jewess. In culture and belief she was a Jew, but in hereditary endowment she was more a composite of Syrian, Hittite, Phoenician, Greek, and Egyptian stocks, her racial inheritance being more general than that of Joseph.

(1345.2) 122:1.3 Of all couples living in Palestine at about the time of Michael’s projected bestowal, Joseph and Mary possessed the most ideal combination of widespread racial connections and superior average of personality endowments. It was the plan of Michael to appear on earth as an average man, that the common people might understand him and receive him; wherefore Gabriel selected just such persons as Joseph and Mary to become the bestowal parents.
Peace be upon you."

#3 Howard509

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:31 AM

How is having Mary as an intercessor, as someone who prays for us, no less advisable than asking a close friend or family member to pray for you? As the very birth-giver of the Son, she has a closer relationship to Jesus than any other human being.

Edited by Howard509, 12 March 2013 - 10:35 AM.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#4 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:14 PM

Intercession
Intercession is the act of interceding (intervening or mediating) between two parties


Roman Catholic Church doctrine supports intercessory prayer to saints. Intercessory prayer to saints also plays an important role in the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches. Also some Anglo-Catholics believe in saintly intercession. This practice is an application of the Catholic doctrine of the Communion of Saints, in which prayer to Mary is a prime part. It is understood that some of the early basis for this was the belief that martyrs passed immediately into the presence of God, and could obtain graces and blessings for others.

So, you think we should pray to someone other than Father? Truely? All who will may pray "for" me. But none stand between us and Father and no prayers should be directed to saints, priests, popes, or Mary.

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 12 March 2013 - 12:15 PM.

Peace be upon you."

#5 Howard509

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:21 PM

So, you think we should pray to someone other than Father? Truely? All who will may pray "for" me. But none stand between us and Father and no prayers should be directed to saints, priests, popes, or Mary.


I think that you are having a misconception about what the intercession of Mary means, which is understandable for someone living in a predominantly Protestant society.

First, we have to look at the original definition of the term "pray" -

from Old French preier, from Latin precārī to implore, from prex an entreaty; related to Old English fricgan, Old High German frāgēn to ask, Old Norse fregna to enquire]

late 13c., "ask earnestly, beg," also "pray to a god or saint," from O.Fr. preier (c.900), from L. precari "ask earnestly, beg," from *prex (plural preces, gen. precis) "prayer, request, entreaty," from PIE base *prek- "to ask, request, entreat" (cf. Skt. prasna-, Avestan frashna- "question;" O.C.S.
http://dictionary.re...browse/pray?s=t


People often confuse the word "pray" with "worship," whereas the original definition of "pray" is merely to make an earnest peitition. What is wrong with asking Mary to pray for us before her Son? How is that any different from asking a family member or close friend to pray for you? Have you ever asked any human person to pray for you? That is called intercessory prayer.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#6 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

Good questions and there is much written about prayer...and whom to pray to. Your ernest petition itself raises interesting questions. I'll research and be back, but for now:


(65.5) 5:3.3 Worship is for its own sake; prayer embodies a self- or creature-interest element; that is the great difference between worship and prayer. There is absolutely no self-request or other element of personal interest in true worship; we simply worship God for what we comprehend him to be. Worship asks nothing and expects nothing for the worshiper. We do not worship the Father because of anything we may derive from such veneration; we render such devotion and engage in such worship as a natural and spontaneous reaction to the recognition of the Father’s matchless personality and because of his lovable nature and adorable attributes.

(65.6) 5:3.4 The moment the element of self-interest intrudes upon worship, that instant devotion translates from worship to prayer and more appropriately should be directed to the person of the Eternal Son or the Creator Son. But in practical religious experience there exists no reason why prayer should not be addressed to God the Father as a part of true worship.

(66.1) 5:3.5 When you deal with the practical affairs of your daily life, you are in the hands of the spirit personalities having origin in the Third Source and Center; you are co-operating with the agencies of the Conjoint Actor. And so it is: You worship God; pray to, and commune with, the Son; and work out the details of your earthly sojourn in connection with the intelligences of the Infinite Spirit operating on your world and throughout your universe.
Peace be upon you."

#7 Howard509

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:38 PM

Again, how is asking Mary to pray for you any different from asking a family member or close friend to pray for you? Have you ever asked any human person to pray for you? That is called intercessory prayer.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#8 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

As the very birth-giver of the Son, she has a closer relationship to Jesus than any other human being.


Take another look: see Michael's Spirit of Truth? This makes you closer to Jesus than Mary was during her mortal life. Worth thinking about.

Also, this business about "intercessory prayer"... why would you want anyone to pray for you? Do you think Dad or Michael could ever forget about you, or fail to understand? They are in love with you, and literally with you, through thick and thin.

Nigel

#9 Howard509

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 02:34 AM

Also, this business about "intercessory prayer"... why would you want anyone to pray for you?


Do you literally never ask someone to pray for you? This unusual for a religious believer.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#10 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:16 AM

Howard - allow me to recommend Paper 91 on the history and higher levels of prayer. What you suggest is a form of primitivism and not an ideal at all. But, as you will find in the text, any and all forms of prayer are superior to not praying to be sure. But we are taught that there are more effective and less effective forms of prayer. We all say prayers on behalf of others and this is not the issue....it is our praying that is the issue....not others praying for us. To whom do we pray? For whom or for what? To what end? The true value of prayer lies in its power to transform the one who prays....not to gain favors or ease material burdens...but to feel Father and personally approach Him by His Son in Spirit toward the state of worship....and then communion, personal communion. This requires no intermediaries or intercessors....especially not saints or Mary or any other one time mortal, current morontial, angels, etc. Prayer is personal Creator and created, or it is not much at all. Truly.
Please read the paper and then let us continue discussing this important topic of our prayer life and how we might improve its outcomes as a transformative experience for the pilgrims of time to touch the robe of our Brother and know the blessings of Father within. Let us begin with the value and potential in our prayer life:


(996.5) 91:2.7 Prayer contributes greatly to the development of the religious sentiment of an evolving human mind. It is a mighty influence working to prevent isolation of personality.

(996.6) 91:2.8 Prayer represents one technique associated with the natural religions of racial evolution which also forms a part of the experiential values of the higher religions of ethical excellence, the religions of revelation.

(999.9) 91:6.6 Prayer has been an indispensable factor in the progress and preservation of religious civilization, and it still has mighty contributions to make to the further enhancement and spiritualization of society if those who pray will only do so in the light of scientific facts, philosophic wisdom, intellectual sincerity, and spiritual faith. Pray as Jesus taught his disciples — honestly, unselfishly, with fairness, and without doubting.

(1000.1) 91:6.7 But the efficacy of prayer in the personal spiritual experience of the one who prays is in no way dependent on such a worshiper’s intellectual understanding, philosophic acumen, social level, cultural status, or other mortal acquirements. The psychic and spiritual concomitants of the prayer of faith are immediate, personal, and experiential. There is no other technique whereby every man, regardless of all other mortal accomplishments, can so effectively and immediately approach the threshold of that realm wherein he can communicate with his Maker, where the creature contacts with the reality of the Creator, with the indwelling Thought Adjuster.



<a name="U91_3_0">

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 13 March 2013 - 07:17 AM.

Peace be upon you."

#11 Howard509

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 09:59 AM

The true value of prayer lies in its power to transform the one who prays....not to gain favors or ease material burdens


Have you ever asked a person to pray for your spiritual growth or that you will be able to do the right thing in a given situation? How is that any different from asking Mary to pray for you to do the same?

One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.

The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator...

God indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information; one is to look to God’s prophets instead. Thus one is not to hold a seance. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can discern the vast qualitative difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave, "Mom, please pray to Jesus for me; I’m having a real problem right now." The difference between the two is the difference between night and day. One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information; the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.
http://www.catholic....g-to-the-saints


If you believe that the Urantia Book was written to supplement and complement the historic Christian faith, not to supersede it, then I see no reason why we need to abandon the ancient practice of intercessory prayer.

Edited by Howard509, 13 March 2013 - 10:07 AM.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#12 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:15 AM

Simply because you are praying to an unnecesarry and ineffectual intermediary. Despite the official catholic doctrine, this is a primitive practice. And we are not here to learn about the still primitive practices of your church...but what the Revelation teaches us, especially in contrast and contradistinction to our current religious practices. Please pray how you will and to whom you wish. If you can't discern the difference between the Father within and His creator Son as the direction of your prayers rather than one time mortals, you have much text yet to read and learn from. There is always a superior way and all others. Praying to Mary or a saint would be one of those others. No one stands between the created and their Creator. No one. Ever. Never. A fairy tale of the priesthood.


(1001.8) 91:8.4 To some individuals prayer is the calm expression of gratitude; to others, a group expression of praise, social devotions; sometimes it is the imitation of another’s religion, while in true praying it is the sincere and trusting communication of the spiritual nature of the creature with the anywhere presence of the spirit of the Creator.

(1001.9) 91:8.5 Prayer may be a spontaneous expression of God-consciousness or a meaningless recitation of theologic formulas. It may be the ecstatic praise of a God-knowing soul or the slavish obeisance of a fear-ridden mortal. It is sometimes the pathetic expression of spiritual craving and sometimes the blatant shouting of pious phrases. Prayer may be joyous praise or a humble plea for forgiveness.

(2088.5) 196:0.10 Jesus brought to God, as a man of the realm, the greatest of all offerings: the consecration and dedication of his own will to the majestic service of doing the divine will. Jesus always and consistently interpreted religion wholly in terms of the Father’s will. When you study the career of the Master, as concerns prayer or any other feature of the religious life, look not so much for what he taught as for what he did. Jesus never prayed as a religious duty. To him prayer was a sincere expression of spiritual attitude, a declaration of soul loyalty, a recital of personal devotion, an expression of thanksgiving, an avoidance of emotional tension, a prevention of conflict, an exaltation of intellection, an ennoblement of desire, a vindication of moral decision, an enrichment of thought, an invigoration of higher inclinations, a consecration of impulse, a clarification of viewpoint, a declaration of faith, a transcendental surrender of will, a sublime assertion of confidence, a revelation of courage, the proclamation of discovery, a confession of supreme devotion, the validation of consecration, a technique for the adjustment of difficulties, and the mighty mobilization of the combined soul powers to withstand all human tendencies toward selfishness, evil, and sin. He lived just such a life of prayerful consecration to the doing of his Father’s will and ended his life triumphantly with just such a prayer. The secret of his unparalleled religious life was this consciousness of the presence of God; and he attained it by intelligent prayer and sincere worship — unbroken communion with God — and not by leadings, voices, visions, or extraordinary religious practices.
Peace be upon you."

#13 Howard509

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:17 AM

Simply because you are praying to an unnecesarry and ineffectual intermediary.


Again, is it unnecessary and ineffectual to ask a close friend or family member to pray for you? If you never ask a loved one for their prayers, that is very unusual for a religious believer. It gets a little silly when we talk in circles like this. One should just be able to accept that intercessory prayer is a normal practice and move on.

Edited by Howard509, 13 March 2013 - 10:19 AM.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#14 -Scott-

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:19 AM

Again, is it unnecessary and ineffectual to ask a close friend or family member to pray for you? If you never ask a loved one for their prayers, that is very unusual for a religious believer.


Mary has no special powers to hear you. She is on the mansion worlds worried about her own life. She is not being bombarded with voices ask for help from our planet, that would be unfair to her. She has no special abilities, she is just like me or you.
If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#15 Howard509

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 10:21 AM

Mary has no special powers to hear you. She is on the mansion worlds worried about her own life. She is not being bombarded with voices ask for help from our planet, that would be unfair to her. She has no special abilities, she is just like me or you.


How do you know that would be a sort of bombardment? Perhaps it would give her joy and honor to pray for us, just as your own mother should feel if you were to ask for her prayers.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#16 -Scott-

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:05 AM

How do you know that would be a sort of bombardment? Perhaps it would give her joy and honor to pray for us, just as your own mother should feel if you were to ask for her prayers.


People on the mansion worlds are not allowed to have communication with people from their former world so its not going to happen anyway. Also it's not healthy to give one human being special honour. Love of self is dangerous. No mortal should be lifted up above his fellows unless its Jesus. You will actually do more harm then good if you start honouring one person as special above the rest. That is what Lucifer did for himself.

Edited by -Scott-, 13 March 2013 - 11:05 AM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#17 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:33 AM

Intercessory prayers are not "normal" nor effective for any. Sorry. Praying for others is a fine practice and is hardly the same thing as praying TO someone TO pray or petition for you. Witchdoctor primitivisms. Unworthy. Period. You're the one going in circles by trying to equate praying for another and praying to another. Get your own religious practice straight as these are not the same thing. Do what you will but quit trying to claim the Revelation supports such nonsense. Have you read the paper I recommended yet. Please do. And let's discuss practices with efficacy shall we?
Peace be upon you."

#18 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:08 PM

Much of the Roman church (and I mean MUCH including holy days, priests, pulpits, and more) came by way of the Mithraic religion/cult. So did "intercession" as a continuation of this in-place primitivism. Before Mary was Mithrais.

(1082.4) 98:5.3 The Mithraic cult portrayed a militant god taking origin in a great rock, engaging in valiant exploits, and causing water to gush forth from a rock struck with his arrows. There was a flood from which one man escaped in a specially built boat and a last supper which Mithras celebrated with the sun-god before he ascended into the heavens. This sun-god, or Sol Invictus, was a degeneration of the Ahura-Mazda deity concept of Zoroastrianism. Mithras was conceived as the surviving champion of the sun-god in his struggle with the god of darkness. And in recognition of his slaying the mythical sacred bull, Mithras was made immortal, being exalted to the station of intercessor for the human race among the gods on high.

But the pope and priests were not quite satisfied with but one intercessor so they added many more in their "dark ages" of receeding even further back into their original panteistic primitivism of holy intercessors:

(2074.7) 195:4.1 The church, being an adjunct to society and the ally of politics, was doomed to share in the intellectual and spiritual decline of the so-called European “dark ages.” During this time, religion became more and more monasticized, asceticized, and legalized. In a spiritual sense, Christianity was hibernating. Throughout this period there existed, alongside this slumbering and secularized religion, a continuous stream of mysticism, a fantastic spiritual experience bordering on unreality and philosophically akin to pantheism.

(2074.8) 195:4.2 During these dark and despairing centuries, religion became virtually secondhanded again. The individual was almost lost before the overshadowing authority, tradition, and dictation of the church. A new spiritual menace arose in the creation of a galaxy of “saints” who were assumed to have special influence at the divine courts, and who, therefore, if effectively appealed to, would be able to intercede in man’s behalf before the Gods.


This is what you wish to promote? Here? I think not. But again, I'd be happy to redirect the focus here away from such paganist primitivism toward a more functional and superior form of prayer....direct to Father within and Michael as Brother/Creator. It is our personal relationship with Father that matters and no one and no thing stands between thee and He.

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 13 March 2013 - 12:11 PM.

Peace be upon you."

#19 -Scott-

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

You open yourself up to danger anytime you deify a mortal being. That's the danger Lucifer played with.
If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#20 Howard509

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:29 PM

People on the mansion worlds are not allowed to have communication with people from their former world so its not going to happen anyway. Also it's not healthy to give one human being special honour. Love of self is dangerous. No mortal should be lifted up above his fellows unless its Jesus. You will actually do more harm then good if you start honouring one person as special above the rest. That is what Lucifer did for himself.


Mary is honored because she humbled herself. She is not worthy of worship, but she is worthy of honor as the birth-giver of our Creator Son. If we are to honor our father and mother, why not honor Mother Mary? As far as whether Mary can hear our prayers, that's a mystery that will perhaps never be answered in this lifetime. We'd have to agree to disagree on that one.

As to whether we should pray for each other, it's a little silly to argue that we shouldn't. There's certainly no harm that can come from it, and it's been a common practice in the world's religions for thousands of years. I am sure that William Sadler, Meredith Sprunger, and other early members of the Urantia movement prayed for others, just as is normal and customary to do so.

You open yourself up to danger anytime you deify a mortal being. That's the danger Lucifer played with.


I am glad then that no one in this thread has attempted to deify her.

Edited by Howard509, 13 March 2013 - 01:30 PM.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin





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