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7 Dimensions of Universe

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#1 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:37 PM

Hello all,

Today I was reading a part in chapter 130 On the way to Rome, and a quote from here had me thinking about Universe Dimensions (By dimensions I don't mean on size).

Here is the quote which caught my attention:

(130:7.6) There are seven different conceptions of space as it is conditioned by time. Space is measured by time, not time by space. The confusion of the scientist grows out of failure to recognize the reality of space. Space is not merely an intellectual concept of the variation in relatedness of universe objects. Space is not empty, and the only thing man knows which can even partially transcend space is mind. Mind can function independently of the concept of the space-relatedness of material objects. Space is relatively and comparatively finite to all beings of creature status. The nearer consciousness approaches the awareness of seven cosmic dimensions, the more does the concept of potential space approach ultimacy. But the space potential is truly ultimate only on the absolute level.

130:7.7.It must be apparent that universal reality has an expanding and always relative meaning on the ascending and perfecting levels of the cosmos. Ultimately, surviving mortals achieve identity in a seven-dimensional universe.

So, here is revealed that Universe has 7 cosmic Dimensions.
Could this Dimensions be connected to ones that Humans identified:
1. Length
2. Highth
3. Deepness
4. Time

If yes, then we have 3 more to uncover.

On the list I would defintly put
5. Spiritual Gravity - Gravity that pulls us in spin toward Paradise .

And this leaves 2 more (or 3 if I missed the 5th one) :)

Feel free to comment and reveal to me your thoughts

Edited by Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk, 06 March 2013 - 01:37 PM.

Peace be upon you

#2 Nelson G

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:46 PM

My thoughts are that length, height, depth, time and space are related and easy enough to observe. This could be the limit of what we will ever know about dimensions within our universe - which is the Grand Universe and therefore exists within the Supreme. Possibly the concept of zero, inseperable from the mathamatics living within it is analogous to the concept of space, inseperable from the material objects living within it - all of which move through time. For me, space and zero have no meaning separate from objects and math. But this is a concept - it is not possible to separate numbers and objects from zero and space - at least I do not believe it is. We observe material objects in the outer space levels but this is outside of the Grand Universe and out there is the future - possibly we will find the other dimensions out there, where the Ultimate will unfold. This raises the question for me - can we even begin to conceptualize the Ultimate?

Edited by Nelson G, 06 March 2013 - 04:49 PM.

Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#3 Alina

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:12 PM

Hi Pike, Nelson, all...

Pike; Could this be what you mean?



(1226.13) 112:1.9 The type of personality bestowed upon Urantia mortals has a potentiality of seven dimensions of self-expression or person-realization. These dimensional phenomena are realizable as three on the finite level, three on the absonite level, and one on the absolute level. On subabsolute levels this seventh or totality dimension is experiencible as the fact of personality. This supreme dimension is an associable absolute and, while not infinite, is dimensionally potential for subinfinite penetration of the absolute.



Alina
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Edited by Alina, 06 March 2013 - 05:12 PM.


#4 Louis aka loucol

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:20 PM

Hi All:

IMHO, since time and space are inseparable, then...

time-height
time-length
time-breadth
Space respiration

2 plus 2 plus 2 plus 1 = 7

The zero dimension of spaceless, timeless, Paradise is the source of the seven above. What do you think? :)

Regards, Louis
His Will Be Done

#5 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 07:04 AM

Hi Pike, Nelson, all...

Pike; Could this be what you mean?

(1226.13) 112:1.9 The type of personality bestowed upon Urantia mortals has a potentiality of seven dimensions of self-expression or person-realization. These dimensional phenomena are realizable as three on the finite level, three on the absonite level, and one on the absolute level. On subabsolute levels this seventh or totality dimension is experiencible as the fact of personality. This supreme dimension is an associable absolute and, while not infinite, is dimensionally potential for subinfinite penetration of the absolute.

Alina
***


Hi Alina,

I wanted to post this quote in my original post also, but I was destracted by something and forgot. :)

It has sense:

three on the finite level
length, height, depth

three on the absonite level
time, spiritual gravity, ???

and one on the absolute level
Paradise



I also agree with Nelson. I also beleive that it is almost imposible for Human mind to comprehend some things.
But we can allways try. Right?
People without dreams are People without vision.

Hrvoje

Edited by Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk, 07 March 2013 - 07:05 AM.

Peace be upon you

#6 Absonite

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:30 AM

Dimension is one of those words that has become ultra popular in modern talk about spirituality - and used to the point that the simple meaning for it has been all but proverbially thrown out the window.

Dimension simply means measurement.

That's it.
That's all.

Contrary to popular perspective: a dimension is not some sort of place where we somehow can go.

A dimension also is not inherently physical - however, physicality can indeed be dimensionalized according to various systems for measuring. This point is crucial to comprehend because a tendency when discussing dimensions is automatically to assume that some sort of physical phenomena necessarily is being addressed, and then confusion results when the term is applied to non-physicality.
.
When one does not recognize the terms length, depth, and breadth as analogies that reference measurements for relations of quality - rather than referencing relations of quantity - the simple point is missed.



Louis and Pike - you guys seem to me to be missing the point. To some degree, you're still considering dimensions essentially as a kind of measurement of physical phenomena, as evidenced by how you talk about one of the three finite dimensions as height, when the UB clearly talks about the second of the three finite dimensions as depth (not height). You seem to be automatically thinking that the UB is discussing the classical system for measuring what science commonly calls "space" - according to length, height, and width.

And I can see how easy it is to make this mistake (in fact: I have done it myself from time to time), because the UB does throw in the term "Vertical" in front of "depth" - which can cause one to jump to the conclusion that it is the same as height - when the clear meaning for it really doesn't have anything to do with height at all. If anything, "Vertical" is more of a directional indicator. Since we're all familiar with how the UB equates "higher" with "inner" - then "vertical" can be simply equated as "internal" - and that makes sense when considering that inward progress results with one going deeper.



When length is discerned as analogous for meaning; when depth is discerned as analogous for value; and when breadth is discerned as analogous for insight - as the UB clearly explains at 112:1.10 - then one does not become stuck and confused from focusing on the analogues and trying to make them square with measurements for physical phenomena.

Edited by Absonite, 07 March 2013 - 08:38 AM.


#7 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:52 AM

I agree Absonite,

I did consider Dimesnion from physical point of view.
for defining position in space.
And as Nelson wrotte it is hard for mortal mind to comprehend true meanning of Universe.

When I thougth about this topic I considered that Paradise has phyisical coordinates and considerd this problem from material point of view because I want to settle this Universe "navigation" issue in my mind. :)

Thanks on your thougths
Peace be upon you

#8 Absonite

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:05 AM

Ok - as long as you are aware that when the UB presents the 7 dimensions, it's not talking about length, height, and width relevant to physical measurements - instead (for the finite three) it's analogously discussing meaning (length), value (depth), and insight (breadth) - then it's all right.

The warning I'm giving here is not to confuse the analogue for the topic.

Edited by Absonite, 07 March 2013 - 09:56 AM.


#9 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:01 AM

Remark taken :)
Peace be upon you

#10 -Scott-

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:02 AM

There is the 7 dimensions of personality. But Havona is also 7 dimensional. Two different sets of "dimensions". I don't think we as humans will ever know what Havona looks like. It would be like that book called flatland IMO. Essentially it would be like taking a 2 dimensional stick being and trying to explain what 3 dimensional reality is. Even though all he can see is lines.
If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#11 Alina

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:03 AM

Hi Alina,
three on the absonite level
time, spiritual gravity, ???

Hrvoje


Hi Pike, all! :)
I Agree Scott!

§ 1. new factors appearing on the absonite level

Post-finite Creatures. These are the personalities, perfect and perfected, who have participated in the growth of the Supreme and, in association with him, escape previous limitations to begin the new adventure toward the goal of creature existence on new levels of Ultimate reality. These beings will specifically include the mortal finaliters as well as their finaliter-associates of the six non-mortal finaliter corps, and many non-finaliter colleagues. All of these beings will be serving in the outer space universes, and will, at the same time, be engaged in the absonite quest for God the Father – the attempt to find God as Ultimate.

Here complete information:

http://www.urantia.o...esis#chapter_vi


Alina
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Edited by Alina, 07 March 2013 - 10:05 AM.


#12 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:25 AM

There is the 7 dimensions of personality. But Havona is also 7 dimensional. Two different sets of "dimensions". I don't think we as humans will ever know what Havona looks like. It would be like that book called flatland IMO. Essentially it would be like taking a 2 dimensional stick being and trying to explain what 3 dimensional reality is. Even though all he can see is lines.


Or trying to explain God'ss Love to someone who thinks he is the center of the Universe.

(1440.4) 130:8.4 At last they reached Naples and felt they were not far from their destination, Rome. Gonod had much business to transact in Naples, and aside from the time Jesus was required as interpreter, he and Ganid spent their leisure visiting and exploring the city. Ganid was becoming adept at sighting those who appeared to be in need. They found much poverty in this city and distributed many alms. But Ganid never understood the meaning of Jesus’ words when, after he had given a coin to a street beggar, he refused to pause and speak comfortingly to the man. Said Jesus: “Why waste words upon one who cannot perceive the meaning of what you say? The spirit of the Father cannot teach and save one who has no capacity for sonship.” What Jesus meant was that the man was not of normal mind; that he lacked the ability to respond to spirit leading.
Peace be upon you

#13 Absonite

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 07:17 PM

To try and run in a parallel vein to what the UB does, keeping it simple - but not using analogues:

If the first three Dimensions are:

1. Meaning
2. Value
3. Insight

Then I posit that the next three Dimensions are:

4. Beauty
5. Truth
6. Goodness

And the final Dimension therefore would be:

7. Love

Edited by Absonite, 07 March 2013 - 07:18 PM.


#14 -Scott-

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 07:55 PM

IMO we are functioning as personal beings when we are experiencing the fullness of the 3 highest levels of meaning which are anagalous with some other triads, though I wouldn't call these other traids dimensions. IMO when we are utilizing all of these facets we are whole-hearted beings. Since everyone else has their list out I thought I would throw a list out that I have had help compiling from study sessions on Tuesday. Though this list doesn't really have much to do with dimensions IMO.

1.Logical Level/Brotherly Love Level-16:6.6 Causation -Beauty- science-1st cosmic intuition (logic acumen)- Social-judgment — ethical choice- realization-(195.3) The mathematical or logical recognition of the uniformity of physical causation.
2. Moral Level-16:6.7 Duty-Truth-philosophy- 2nd cosmic intuition (morale discrimination)- Self-judgment — moral choice-appreciation-195.4- The reasoned recognition of the obligation of moral conduct.
3. Spiritual Level-16:6. Worship-Goodness-religion-love-3rd cosmic intuition (spirit worship)- God-judgment — religious choice-love-The faith-grasp of the fellowship worship of Deity, associated with the loving service of humanity.

(195.6) 16:8.19 The full function of such a personality endowment is the beginning realization of Deity kinship. Such a selfhood, indwelt by a prepersonal fragment of God the Father, is in truth and in fact a spiritual son of God. Such a creature not only discloses capacity for the reception of the gift of the divine presence but also exhibits reactive response to the personality-gravity circuit of the Paradise Father of all personalities.

(1651.1) 147:4.7 “4. The level of brotherly love. Still higher is discovered the level of unselfish devotion to the welfare of one’s fellows. On this higher plane of wholehearted social service growing out of the consciousness of the fatherhood of God and the consequent recognition of the brotherhood of man, there is discovered a new and far more beautiful interpretation of this basic rule of life.
(1651.2) 147:4.8 “5. The moral level. And then when you attain true philosophic levels of interpretation, when you have real insight into the rightness and wrongness of things, when you perceive the eternal fitness of human relationships, you will begin to view such a problem of interpretation as you would imagine a high-minded, idealistic, wise, and impartial third person would so view and interpret such an injunction as applied to your personal problems of adjustment to your life situations.
(1651.3) 147:4.9 “6. The spiritual level. And then last, but greatest of all, we attain the level of spirit insight and spiritual interpretation which impels us to recognize in this rule of life the divine command to treat all men as we conceive God would treat them. That is the universe ideal of human relationships. And this is your attitude toward all such problems when your supreme desire is ever to do the Father’s will. I would, therefore, that you should do to all men that which you know I would do to them in like circumstances.”

(1675.4) 149:6.3 “The ‘fear of the Lord’ has had different meanings in the successive ages, coming up from fear, through anguish and dread, to awe and reverence. And now from reverence I would lead you up, through recognition, realization, and appreciation, to love. When man recognizes only the works of God, he is led to fear the Supreme; but when man begins to understand and experience the personality and character of the living God, he is led increasingly to love such a good and perfect, universal and eternal Father. And it is just this changing of the relation of man to God that constitutes the mission of the Son of Man on earth.

I just bolded all the parts where I took information from. I just posted the triads of the 3 highest universe levels of meaning and combined those with the three cosmic intuitions. Then I added a few other triads that probably seemed a bit confusing. Anyways sorry for going off topic. I honestly have no idea what 7 dimensional reality would be like.

Edited by -Scott-, 08 March 2013 - 01:13 AM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#15 Pike aka Hrvoje Pajk

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:21 AM

If i head a little more time i would now search for right emoticon to express my joy!
Thank you all for helping me grow.
Peace be upon you

#16 Nelson G

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

Interesting:
The question comes to mind: Are dimensions creations? Certainly things that have dimensions are.
Are Truth, Beauty and Goodness creations?
Seems to me they are realities that are discovered - if I can make the distinction.
Their manifestations however, how we bring them into being, give them dimesnions, making them are our creations.
Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#17 Alina

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:17 PM

Hi Nelson, all! :)

It seems to me that these quotes (below) tell us enough. Of Discourse Jesus on Time and Space.
The perception of the physical and mental realities for me depends on the individual. Therefore, there are spatial-temporal dimensions also mental and spiritual dimensions.
The three, material-mental-spiritual are personal perceptions o insights; levels of consciousness.

Yes, also the Truth, Beauty and Goodness have different levels of perception. :)





(1439.4) 130:7.6 There are seven different conceptions of space as it is conditioned by time. Space is measured by time, not time by space. The confusion of the scientist grows out of failure to recognize the reality of space. Space is not merely an intellectual concept of the variation in relatedness of universe objects. Space is not empty, and the only thing man knows which can even partially transcend space is mind. Mind can function independently of the concept of the space-relatedness of material objects. Space is relatively and comparatively finite to all beings of creature status. The nearer consciousness approaches the awareness of seven cosmic dimensions, the more does the concept of potential space approach ultimacy. But the space potential is truly ultimate only on the absolute level.

(1439.5) 130:7.7 It must be apparent that universal reality has an expanding and always relative meaning on the ascending and perfecting levels of the cosmos. Ultimately, surviving mortals achieve identity in a seven-dimensional universe.

(1439.6) 130:7.8 The time-space concept of a mind of material origin is destined to undergo successive enlargements as the conscious and conceiving personality ascends the levels of the universes. When man attains the mind intervening between the material and the spiritual planes of existence, his ideas of time-space will be enormously expanded both as to quality of perception and quantity of experience. The enlarging cosmic conceptions of an advancing spirit personality are due to augmentations of both depth of insight and scope of consciousness. And as personality passes on, upward and inward, to the transcendental levels of Deity-likeness, the time-space concept will increasingly approximate the timeless and spaceless concepts of the Absolutes. Relatively, and in accordance with transcendental attainment, these concepts of the absolute level are to be envisioned by the children of ultimate destiny.


Edited by Alina, 08 March 2013 - 03:37 PM.


#18 Nigel Nunn

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:54 PM

And then there is the interesting question of what happens when you move superuniverse space at single velocity with respect to its (absolutely ultimate) background?

"Space is measured by time, not time by space." (1439.4, 130:7.6)

Local "rates of flow of time". An interesting way to measure local spaces?

Nigel

#19 Alina

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:30 PM

Hello Nigel!
If I understood correctly, you mean this? :)

(1439.2) 130:7.4 Time is the stream of flowing temporal events perceived by creature consciousness. Time is a name given to the succession-arrangement whereby events are recognized and segregated. The universe of space is a time-related phenomenon as it is viewed from any interior position outside of the fixed abode of Paradise. The motion of time is only revealed in relation to something which does not move in space as a time phenomenon. In the universe of universes Paradise and its Deities transcend both time and space. On the inhabited worlds, human personality (indwelt and oriented by the Paradise Father’s spirit) is the only physically related reality which can transcend the material sequence of temporal events.

(1439.3) 130:7.5 Animals do not sense time as does man, and even to man, because of his sectional and circumscribed view, time appears as a succession of events; but as man ascends, as he progresses inward, the enlarging view of this event procession is such that it is discerned more and more in its wholeness. That which formerly appeared as a succession of events then will be viewed as a whole and perfectly related cycle; in this way will circular simultaneity increasingly displace the onetime consciousness of the linear sequence of events.

(1439.4) 130:7.6 There are seven different conceptions of space as it is conditioned by time. Space is measured by time, not time by space. The confusion of the scientist grows out of failure to recognize the reality of space. Space is not merely an intellectual concept of the variation in relatedness of universe objects. Space is not empty, and the only thing man knows which can even partially transcend space is mind. Mind can function independently of the concept of the space-relatedness of material objects. Space is relatively and comparatively finite to all beings of creature status. The nearer consciousness approaches the awareness of seven cosmic dimensions, the more does the concept of potential space approach ultimacy. But the space potential is truly ultimate only on the absolute level.

(1439.5) 130:7.7 It must be apparent that universal reality has an expanding and always relative meaning on the ascending and perfecting levels of the cosmos. Ultimately, surviving mortals achieve identity in a seven-dimensional universe.

(1439.6) 130:7.8 The time-space concept of a mind of material origin is destined to undergo successive enlargements as the conscious and conceiving personality ascends the levels of the universes. When man attains the mind intervening between the material and the spiritual planes of existence, his ideas of time-space will be enormously expanded both as to quality of perception and quantity of experience. The enlarging cosmic conceptions of an advancing spirit personality are due to augmentations of both depth of insight and scope of consciousness. And as personality passes on, upward and inward, to the transcendental levels of Deity-likeness, the time-space concept will increasingly approximate the timeless and spaceless concepts of the Absolutes. Relatively, and in accordance with transcendental attainment, these concepts of the absolute level are to be envisioned by the children of ultimate destiny.

Edited by Alina, 08 March 2013 - 04:40 PM.


#20 Nelson G

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 05:08 PM

That which formerly appeared as a succession of events then will be viewed as a whole and perfectly related cycle; in this way will circular simultaneity increasingly displace the onetime consciousness of the linear sequence of events.

Possibly within this concept or picture of destiny lies at least one other dimension?? While material objects with their three dimensions move through the 4th dimension of time, the mind of an expanding conciousness observes this phenomena as a whole and perfectly related cycle - a 5th dimension: an advanced form of observation.
Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.




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