Jump to content


Photo

The Concept of God


  • Please log in to reply
73 replies to this topic

#41 -Scott-

-Scott-

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,023 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Camping, Hiking, Soccer, Movies, Games,

Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:24 PM

I think there many passages in the urantia book that we can use to tell us if we are experiencing something. 1100.3) 100:6.1 6. Marks of Religious Living Is one of those sections in the u.b that we can use to see if we are actually experiencing a religious life.

1100.7) 100:6.5 But true religion is a living love, a life of service. The religionist’s detachment from much that is purely temporal and trivial never leads to social isolation, and it should not destroy the sense of humor. Genuine religion takes nothing away from human existence, but it does add new meanings to all of life; it generates new types of enthusiasm, zeal, and courage. It may even engender the spirit of the crusader, which is more than dangerous if not controlled by spiritual insight and loyal devotion to the commonplace social obligations of human loyalties.

(1101.4) 100:6.9 The characteristic difference between evolved and revealed religion is a new quality of divine wisdom which is added to purely experiential human wisdom. But it is experience in and with the human religions that develops the capacity for subsequent reception of increased bestowals of divine wisdom and cosmic insight.

(1101.1) 100:6.6 One of the most amazing earmarks of religious living is that dynamic and sublime peace, that peace which passes all human understanding, that cosmic poise which betokens the absence of all doubt and turmoil. Such levels of spiritual stability are immune to disappointment. Such religionists are like the Apostle Paul, who said: “I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else shall be able to separate us from the love of God.”


Here is a couple more good paragraphs we could use as litmus tests to see if we are actually really living a religious life.

1930.5) 178:1.8 You should be made all the better citizens of the secular government as a result of becoming enlightened sons of the kingdom; so should the rulers of earthly governments become all the better rulers in civil affairs as a result of believing this gospel of the heavenly kingdom. The attitude of unselfish service of man and intelligent worship of God should make all kingdom believers better world citizens, while the attitude of honest citizenship and sincere devotion to one’s temporal duty should help to make such a citizen the more easily reached by the spirit call to sonship in the heavenly kingdom.

(1931.4) 178:1.13 When a kingdom believer is called upon to serve the civil government, let him render such service as a temporal citizen of such a government, albeit such a believer should display in his civil service all of the ordinary traits of citizenship as these have been enhanced by the spiritual enlightenment of the ennobling association of the mind of mortal man with the indwelling spirit of the eternal God. If the unbeliever can qualify as a superior civil servant, you should seriously question whether the roots of truth in your heart have not died from the lack of the living waters of combined spiritual communion and social service. The consciousness of sonship with God should quicken the entire life service of every man, woman, and child who has become the possessor of such a mighty stimulus to all the inherent powers of a human personality.


I love that last quote, its essentially saying if there are unbelievers that are superior civil servants than us we should question our status. IMO that speaks directly to urantia book readers and those believers who are questioning just where they stand. IMO the trap many u.b readers fall into is that they read the u.b a bunch of times and think that they are experiencing all the realities that the u.b is conveying, when in fact when the u.b talks about religion they are talking about something most human beings have never experienced in their life (urantia book readers included).

Edited by -Scott-, 10 March 2013 - 02:24 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#42 Absonite

Absonite

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

Seems like far to much focus here on what other people are not really doing, not really experiencing, not really attaining, etc... with regard to love and religion, -Scott-

The people I actually know offline who read the UB (as well as those who do not read the UB, but pursue other spiritual pathways) are working hard at walking their talk as much as they talk their walk.

#43 -Scott-

-Scott-

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,023 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Camping, Hiking, Soccer, Movies, Games,

Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:04 PM

Seems like far to much focus here on what other people are not really doing, not really experiencing, not really attaining, etc... with regard to love and religion, -Scott-

The people I actually know offline who read the UB (as well as those who do not read the UB, but pursue other spiritual pathways) are working hard at walking their talk as much as they talk their walk.


Well its important to recognize where the majority of human beings fit according to the u.b. If we put our blinders on and assume that everyone who reads the u.b and everyone who prays to god is actually a loving and spiritual person we will be completely blind to cosmic reality. IMO its just as important as the other concepts in the u.b, especially in regards to religion and love. The quotes I threw out are not meant to be personal attacks. Also just because someone is not experiencing love or true religion, its not like there is anything wrong with them, we are all in the same boat we are all still good people. IMO its important to know just what "walking the walk is" before we assume the people we know are "walking the walk". The u.b is fairly clear on this IMO.

If you know people who experience this sort of peace (1101.1) 100:6.6 One of the most amazing earmarks of religious living is that dynamic and sublime peace, that peace which passes all human understanding, that cosmic poise which betokens the absence of all doubt and turmoil. Such levels of spiritual stability are immune to disappointment. And if people you know experience a love that results from spirit insight than I am really happy for you and I wish I could find people like that. I am not throwing these quotes out to attack people, there is nothing wrong with being a tadpole.

But for the majority or religionists there are so few genuine second milers who really love and really life but thats not a slight against humanity its just a fact, but its an important fact to recognize IMO.

(2084.5) 195:10.5 In winning souls for the Master, it is not the first mile of compulsion, duty, or convention that will transform man and his world, but rather the second mile of free service and liberty-loving devotion that betokens the Jesusonian reaching forth to grasp his brother in love and sweep him on under spiritual guidance toward the higher and divine goal of mortal existence. Christianity even now willingly goes the first mile, but mankind languishes and stumbles along in moral darkness because there are so few genuine second-milers — so few professed followers of Jesus who really live and love as he taught his disciples to live and love and serve.

Edited by -Scott-, 10 March 2013 - 04:28 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#44 Absonite

Absonite

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:27 PM

I've found that focusing on where the majority of people ostensibly are, or what they supposedly do, doesn't add any motivation for me to continue improving my process and progress.

But then, the line that once was popular to proclaim about "starving children in Africa" also never motivated me to be grateful, appreciate, etc... food, either.

#45 -Scott-

-Scott-

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,023 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Camping, Hiking, Soccer, Movies, Games,

Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:38 PM

I've found that focusing on where the majority of people ostensibly are, or what they supposedly do, doesn't add any motivation for me to continue improving my process and progress.

But then, the line that once was popular to proclaim about "starving children in Africa" also never motivated me to be grateful, appreciate, etc... food, either.


Well the u.b seems to think its important to tell us where people ostensibly are so I think it maybe important. It may help with understanding people which is key to actually loving them. Also there is a good chance that these quotes are speaking to us, not just everyone else. IMO these are some of the most illuminating quotes about humanity that are in the book.

Edited by -Scott-, 10 March 2013 - 04:38 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#46 Absonite

Absonite

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 10 March 2013 - 05:23 PM

I have no doubt that those quotes are speaking directly to you, -Scott- given that they seem to be talking about issues involving people you have in your experience.

If you find them illuminating and useful for relating with them - then so be it.

To each, their own!





#47 -Scott-

-Scott-

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,023 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Camping, Hiking, Soccer, Movies, Games,

Posted 10 March 2013 - 05:27 PM

If you find them illuminating and useful for relating with them - then so be it.

To each, their own!


Yes I find them illumating and helpful, others may not, to each their own. Some people just find the Jesus Papers illuminating and others only find the science in the u.b illuminating, there are lots of viewpoints here and all are welcome.




I have no doubt that those quotes are speaking directly to you, -Scott- given that they seem to be talking about issues involving people you have in your experience.


Yeap I haven't met many second milers in my life nor am I a second miler so the quote about becoming a second miler I think will come in handy for me. I have not met or even heard of many human beings who experience a sublime "peace that passes all human understanding". An unshakable peace that not even death can shake. Most people I know do not posses that cosmic poise with betokens the absence of all doubt and turmoil.

1101.1) 100:6.6 One of the most amazing earmarks of religious living is that dynamic and sublime peace, that peace which passes all human understanding, that cosmic poise which betokens the absence of all doubt and turmoil. Such levels of spiritual stability are immune to disappointment. Such religionists are like the Apostle Paul, who said: “I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else shall be able to separate us from the love of God.”

If someone is experiencing a religious living than they will experience this type of peace and there is no exceptions. I would love to meet just one human being who experiences this sublime peace. I hope I do at some point in my life.

Edited by -Scott-, 10 March 2013 - 07:01 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#48 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:20 AM

Scott - We have no way to truly measure, objectively, the reality of godliness among humanity. But I find too many religionists still motivated by fear and hope than by the confidence of faith. As you suggest, many "first" milers show the "flickering" of a candle in the wind....anxious about material outcomes and uncertain about spiritual ones as well but those faith children too discover love and the TB &G and their sincerity is rewarded. But I would not take too lightly the number and power of those second milers described...for they are not advertising or standing on corners praying loudly seeking the attention of this world. Perhaps the left hand knows not what the right hand is doing? It may be difficult to discern those fruits of the vine in other corners of the vineyard? Be that as it may, it is our personal path of progress that we are in charge of....and nothing more.

The whole will be uplifted by the progress of each far more than the other way around. Does our world progress....and it is progressing....without the spirit upliftment of the each? Or isn't the whole the result of the aggregation of progress within the whole? I have sublime peace. My life is joyful. And I friend, am no one special nor rare I am certain. Again, you display a uniform generosity within your pessimism of humanity's progress. But I always have worn rose colored glasses. Optimism can be no less blind than pessimism as blind confidence is hardly the same thing as true faith. A confusing issue for which we have no true method of measure. But we are given the inevitabilities of that which is in the hands of the Most Highs and can only change that which lies between our own ears. I find it helps though to truly seek the goodness right in front of our face and feet. From todler to toothless, life brings opportunity every day to see and discern the inner light of every mortal ....... and most will not disappoint so much if engaged - light to light. Find the light in others and feed the flicker therein. And waste little time or concern with those where there is no light. Enjoying the topic.
Peace be upon you."

#49 Alina

Alina

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UNIVERSO
  • Interests:*

Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:13 AM

For me it is also well, FanofVan! because,
Recognize God as our Father, it is obvious that we feel their children.
We are son of God!
But, what I observe is that the similarity with He we win trying to seem more to Him, doing his Will, which becomes ours as well when we realize that we are indeed their children!
"This choosing does not so much consist in the negation of creature will — “Not my will but yours be done” — as it consists in the creature’s positive affirmation: “It is my will that your will be done.”111:5.6

And one day we will be ONE with our Father.


(448.2) 40:6.3 All evolutionary worlds of mortal habitation harbor these faith sons of God, sons of grace and mercy, mortal beings belonging to the divine family and accordingly called the sons of God. Urantia mortals are entitled to regard themselves as being the sons of God because:

(448.3) 40:6.4 1. You are sons of spiritual promise, faith sons; you have accepted the status of sonship. You believe in the reality of your sonship, and thus does your sonship with God become eternally real.

(448.4) 40:6.5 2. A Creator Son of God became one of you; he is your elder brother in fact; and if in spirit you become truly related brothers of Christ, the victorious Michael, then in spirit must you also be sons of that Father which you have in common — even the Universal Father of all.

(448.5) 40:6.6 3. You are sons because the spirit of a Son has been poured out upon you, has been freely and certainly bestowed upon all Urantia races. This spirit ever draws you toward the divine Son, who is its source, and toward the Paradise Father, who is the source of that divine Son.

(448.6) 40:6.7 4. Of his divine free-willness, the Universal Father has given you your creature personalities. You have been endowed with a measure of that divine spontaneity of freewill action which God shares with all who may become his sons.

(448.7) 40:6.8 5. There dwells within you a fragment of the Universal Father, and you are thus directly related to the divine Father of all the Sons of God.


***

(454.2) 40:10.13 Thus, in the final analysis, it would be hardly proper to use the words “greater” or “lesser” in contrasting the destinies of the ascending orders of sonship. Every such son of God shares the fatherhood of God, and God loves each of his creature sons alike; he is no more a respecter of ascendant destinies than is he of the creatures who may attain such destinies. The Father loves each of his sons, and that affection is not less than true, holy, divine, unlimited, eternal, and unique — a love bestowed upon this son and upon that son, individually, personally, and exclusively. And such a love utterly eclipses all other facts. Sonship is the supreme relationship of the creature to the Creator.

(454.3) 40:10.14 As mortals you can now recognize your place in the family of divine sonship and begin to sense the obligation to avail yourselves of the advantages so freely provided in and by the Paradise plan for mortal survival, which plan has been so enhanced and illuminated by the life experience of a bestowal Son. Every facility and all power have been provided forinsuring your ultimate attainment of the Paradise goal of divine perfection.


Greetings all! :)

Alina
***

#50 -Scott-

-Scott-

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,023 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Camping, Hiking, Soccer, Movies, Games,

Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:57 AM

Optimism can be no less blind than pessimism as blind confidence is hardly the same thing as true faith

I am still optimistic, that something amazing awaits most human beings around the corner called religion and love :) and that Jesus' Spirit of Truth is here to lead us up to love. Also I believe that most normal minded human beings will be given a second chance on the mansion worlds, regardless of how much love they have felt or not.

But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking. (192.6) 16:6.10 That 3rd cosmic intuition is spirit insight. IMO in order to love or experience religion we need to cultivate that 3rd cosmic inuition. Clearly it is making the authors of the urantia book sad that so few are. I think this quote is one of the most illuminating quotes in the urantia book about where humanity is right now.

Spirit insight allows us to love, this is the spiritual level of leving. IMO this is what Jesus meant when he said he came here to take us up to love, he came as a spiritual uplifter to mankind. So that we could attain the spiritual level of thinking.

1651.3) 147:4.9 “6. The spiritual level. And then last, but greatest of all, we attain the level of spirit insight and spiritual interpretation which impels us to recognize in this rule of life the divine command to treat all men as we conceive God would treat them. That is the universe ideal of human relationships. And this is your attitude toward all such problems when your supreme desire is ever to do the Father’s will. I would, therefore, that you should do to all men that which you know I would do to them in like circumstances.”

.2) 16:9.6 Jesus not only revealed God to man, but he also made a new revelation of man to himself and to other men. In the life of Jesus you see man at his best. Man thus becomes so beautifully real because Jesus had so much of God in his life, and the realization (recognition) of God is inalienable and constitutive in all men.

(196.3) 16:9.7 Unselfishness, aside from parental instinct, is not altogether natural; other persons are not naturally loved or socially served. It requires the enlightenment of reason, morality, and the urge of religion, God-knowingness, to generate an unselfish and altruistic social order. Man’s own personality awareness, self-consciousness, is also directly dependent on this very fact of innate other-awareness, this innate ability to recognize and grasp the reality of other personality, ranging from the human to the divine

Reason-1st cosmic intuition, Morality-2nd cosmic intuition, Religion-3rd cosmic intuition and the only way to generate an unselfish and altruistic social order is through the "urge of religion". Yet it is sad to record few human beings are even cultivating that 3rd cosmic intuition which allows them to experience religion. "Jesus: now from reverence I would lead you up, through recognition, realization, and appreciation, to love." Realization is experienced through that 1st cosmic intuition IMO, appreciation through that second cosmic intuition and love through the 3rd cosmic intuition.

Edited by -Scott-, 11 March 2013 - 11:14 AM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#51 Alina

Alina

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UNIVERSO
  • Interests:*

Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:55 AM

Scott, :)

Yes, is very sad.
For me, materialism (whether of the kind that is) though unintended, has had the effect of putting people of spirituality, of true religion. And with that many have forgotten God. If we add to this that established religions remained planted, instead of helping people grow in their spiritual evolution, the outlook is not cheerful, certainly. By contrast, some have become or are declared atheists ...

Not that anyone believes in God. in a way, but I have been relegated to a lower level within the priorities of its existence. The results are plain to see, and nobody seems to me that it could deny, unless the materialist, of course.


(1123.4) 102:4.4 The element of error present in human religious experience is directly proportional to the content of materialism which contaminates the spiritual concept of the Universal Father. Man’s prespirit progression in the universe consists in the experience of divesting himself of these erroneous ideas of the nature of God and of the reality of pure and true spirit. Deity is more than spirit, but the spiritual approach is the only one possible to ascending man.

(1125.4) 102:6.9 The facts of evolution must not be arrayed against the truth of the reality of the certainty of the spiritual experience of the religious living of the God-knowing mortal. Intelligent men should cease to reason like children and should attempt to use the consistent logic of adulthood, logic which tolerates the concept of truth alongside the observation of fact. Scientific materialism has gone bankrupt when it persists, in the face of each recurring universe phenomenon, in refunding its current objections by referring what is admittedly higher back into that which is admittedly lower. Consistency demands the recognition of the activities of a purposive Creator.

(1125.5) 102:6.10 Organic evolution is a fact; purposive or progressive evolution is a truth which makes consistent the otherwise contradictory phenomena of the ever-ascending achievements of evolution. The higher any scientist progresses in his chosen science, the more will he abandon the theories of materialistic fact in favor of the cosmic truth of the dominance of the Supreme Mind. Materialism cheapens human life; the gospel of Jesus tremendously enhances and supernally exalts every mortal. Mortal existence must be visualized as consisting in the intriguing and fascinating experience of the realization of the reality of the meeting of the human upreach and the divine and saving downreach.


Edited by Alina, 11 March 2013 - 11:57 AM.


#52 Alina

Alina

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UNIVERSO
  • Interests:*

Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:00 AM

Conceptualize God?

Despite the title of this topic and human ideas, can not really formulate concepts about Universal Father because it is much more... than that.
Perhaps some of you thought when I started the topic, but in the meantime some of that exists in our mind, that is, wanting to conceptualize God, it is impossible, but it is a way among many others, to start talking about our Father, from the low point of our perception and discernment.
(should have written this by starting the topic!) because:


(50.4) 3:4.6 Mortal man cannot possibly know the infinitude of the heavenly Father. Finite mind cannot think through such an absolute truth or fact. But this same finite human being can actually feel — literally experience — the full and undiminished impact of such an infinite Father’s LOVE. Such a love can be truly experienced, albeit while quality of experience is unlimited, quantity of such an experience is strictly limited by the human capacity for spiritual receptivity and by the associated capacity to love the Father in return.


I am struck by one quote that says that God is "the noblest work of man." :o
Wouuu ... We believe too big, but it is; another paragraph also says that the man made God in his image and likeness (non-text) also is ridiculous but also true, sometimes this idea which comes from far in the time, it is quite common, although amazing,


(23.4) 1:2.1 God is primal reality in the spirit world; God is the source of truth in the mind spheres; God overshadows all throughout the material realms. To all created intelligences God is a personality, and to the universe of universes he is the First Source and Center of eternal reality. God is neither manlike nor machinelike. The First Father is universal spirit, eternal truth, infinite reality, and father personality.

(23.5) 1:2.2 The eternal God is infinitely more than reality idealized or the universe personalized. God is not simply the supreme desire of man, the mortal quest objectified. Neither is God merely a concept, the power-potential of righteousness. The Universal Father is not a synonym for nature, neither is he natural law personified. God is a transcendent reality, not merely man’s traditional concept of supreme values. God is not a psychological focalization of spiritual meanings, neither is he “the noblest work of man.” God may be any or all of these concepts in the minds of men, but he is more. He is a saving person and a loving Father to all who enjoy spiritual peace on earth, and who crave to experience personality survival in death.

(24.1) 1:2.3 The actuality of the existence of God is demonstrated in human experience by the indwelling of the divine presence, the spirit Monitor sent from Paradise to live in the mortal mind of man and there to assist in evolving the immortal soul of eternal survival. The presence of this divine Adjuster in the human mind is disclosed by three experiential phenomena:


1.The intellectual capacity for knowing God — God-consciousness.

2. The spiritual urge to find God — God-seeking.

3. The personality craving to be like God — the wholehearted desire to do the Father’s will.



(24.5) 1:2.7 The existence of God can never be proved by scientific experiment or by the pure reason of logical deduction. God can be realized only in the realms of human experience; nevertheless, the true concept of the reality of God is reasonable to logic, plausible to philosophy, essential to religion, and indispensable to any hope of personality survival.

(24.6) 1:2.8 Those who know God have experienced the fact of his presence; such God-knowing mortals hold in their personal experience the only positive proof of the existence of the living God which one human being can offer to another. The existence of God is utterly beyond all possibility of demonstration except for the contact between the God-consciousness of the human mind and the God-presence of the Thought Adjuster that indwells the mortal intellect and is bestowed upon man as the free gift of the Universal Father.


*******

#53 Absonite

Absonite

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:40 AM

I truly do not get what you mean by the word concept.

Can you explain it without baiting-and-switching the the conversation to talking about comprehension. i.e. don't use the word comprehend at all to explain what you mean by concept - because comprehension and conceptualization (the process of forming concepts) are not merely two different words for referencing the same meaning.

What exactly do you mean by the word concept - such that conceptualizing (forming a concept) supposedly cannot be done with regard to God?

Edited by Absonite, 12 March 2013 - 09:43 AM.


#54 Alina

Alina

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UNIVERSO
  • Interests:*

Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:06 AM

I truly do not get what you mean by the word concept.

Can you explain it without baiting-and-switching the the conversation to talking about comprehension. i.e. don't use the word comprehend at all to explain what you mean by concept - because comprehension and conceptualization (the process of forming concepts) are not merely two different words for referencing the same meaning.

What exactly do you mean by the word concept - such that conceptualizing (forming a concept) supposedly cannot be done with regard to God?



To form a concept or concepts of, and especially to interpret in a conceptual way:
"Efforts to Conceptualize the history and structure of the universe were already running into trouble because . . . the universe was not as uniform as had been assumed" (John Noble Wilford).

***

#55 Absonite

Absonite

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 12:27 PM

Let me put it this way:

The UB seems to me to offer concepts. So saying that one cannot form concepts about God seems to me to negate the essential purpose of what the UB offers. In fact, if one cannot form concepts about God, then what's the point of the UB?

#56 Alina

Alina

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,393 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:UNIVERSO
  • Interests:*

Posted 12 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

Absonite, The answer is my today post #52 ... but please read and think...
God is more, much more than a simple, merely human concept! This does not mean that we do not use "concepts" to try to understand, but will always be too partial ... more, even when it comes to God.

I do not know why you want write to me if UB. is full of concepts ... or you do not know ...

Foreword



Acknowledgment

(16.8) 0:12.11 In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.

(17.1) 0:12.12 Successive planetary revelations of divine truth invariably embrace the highest existing concepts of spiritual values as a part of the new and enhanced co-ordination of planetary knowledge. Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.

(17.2) 0:12.13 We are fully cognizant of the difficulties of our assignment; we recognize the impossibility of fully translating the language of the concepts of divinity and eternity into the symbols of the language of the finite concepts of the mortal mind. But we know that there dwells within the human mind a fragment of God, and that there sojourns with the human soul the Spirit of Truth; and we further know that these spirit forces conspire to enable material man to grasp the reality of spiritual values and to comprehend the philosophy of universe meanings. But even more certainly we know that these spirits of the Divine Presence are able to assist man in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience — God-consciousness.



#57 Absonite

Absonite

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:37 PM

Whatever is conceptualized is always more than the concept.
The concept is just a symbol - a mental representation - for whatever is symbolized.

Sure, God can be conceptualized.
And, sure, God is more than a concept.

Just as a meal is more than what's written on the menu, or a territory is more than what's iconographed on a map.

But that doesn't mean for one minute that menus cannot be written, maps cannot be made, and concepts about God cannot be formulated.

Edited by Absonite, 12 March 2013 - 05:43 PM.


#58 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 06:57 PM

Absonite...if I may suggest, I doubt there is much disagreement between your view and Alina's, except vernacular. Alina is daring in her caring in her contributions here as a second language and it helps to focus on her relevant and descriptive quotes she always provides to help us contextualize her thoughts and words. Next, it would amaze you, perhaps, if you would try reconstructing or rearanging verbs, nouns, adjectives, etc. and see how meanings can be inflected or misconstrued. I think her chosen text speaks certainly enough and does not deny everyones' ability to conceive the Father...albeit inadequately, incompletely, falsely, etc. but not as He is. Just my take on this. I can assure you Alina has an ever growing concept of Father and shares it here freely.

B)
Peace be upon you."

#59 Absonite

Absonite

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:33 PM

I see.

#60 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 13 March 2013 - 07:00 AM

I hope you do. For I meant no criticism and I really enjoy your perspectives and am enriched by your posts here on many topics (including this one). Your depth of knowledge and patient presentations are of great value and you tackle complexities that wither my mind to muteness. And yet my concepts grow and conceptualizations multiply thereby. My support of Alina is no lack of support for you, your opinions in this particular, or your voice. Should have said so above. My apologies. There is a bridge at every divide and I am certain of the soundness of this one. Peace Brother.
Peace be upon you."




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users