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Grandfanda assention


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#1 Nelson G

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:05 AM

I would love to see a discussion about Grandfanda, the significance of his assention, events that were triggered or new beings that may have come into existence as a result, help/ministery he may have had or did not have that we have.
Did he do it with much less spiritual assistance/ministry or about the same that is available now.
Was his origin the first Superuniverse?
What does his success mean to you?
What should his success mean to all of us?
Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#2 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:38 AM

(270.3) 24:6.5 On the Paradise records of Havona, in the section denominated “Graduate Guides,” there appears this initial entry:


(270.4) 24:6.6 “And Malvorian, the first of this order, did greet and instruct the pilgrim discoverer of Havona and did conduct him from the outer circuits of initial experience, step by step and circuit by circuit, until he stood in the very presence of the Source and Destiny of all personality, subsequently crossing the threshold of eternity to Paradise.”


(270.5) 24:6.7 At that far-distant time I was attached to the service of the Ancients of Days on Uversa, and we all rejoiced in the assurance that, eventually, pilgrims from our superuniverse would reach Havona. For ages we had been taught that the evolutionary creatures of space would attain Paradise, and the thrill of all time swept through the heavenly courts when the first pilgrim actually arrived.

(270.6) 24:6.8 The name of this pilgrim discoverer of Havona is Grandfanda, and he hailed from planet 341 of system 84 in constellation 62 of local universe 1,131 situated in superuniverse number one. His arrival was the signal for the establishment of the broadcast service of the universe of universes. Theretofore only the broadcasts of the superuniverses and the local universes had been in operation, but the announcement of the arrival of Grandfanda at the portals of Havona signalized the inauguration of the “space reports of glory,” so named because the initial universe broadcast reported the Havona arrival of the first of the evolutionary beings to attain entrance upon the goal of ascendant existence.

(270.7) 24:6.9 Graduate Guides never leave the Havona worlds; they are dedicated to the service of the graduate pilgrims of time and space. And you will sometime meet these noble beings face to face if you do not reject the certain and all-perfected plan designed to effect your survival and ascension.


In some cultures elders are respectfully called "Grandfather/Grandmother". What a trail blazer, what a jubilee!!! :rolleyes:

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 13 February 2013 - 11:39 AM.

Peace be upon you."

#3 Nelson G

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:48 PM

I am facinated that the eternal and unchanging Paradise and Centeral Universe responds to events that originate in the Finite Creation with new things and beings.
That which is changeless also changes - or so it appears.
Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#4 Rick Warren

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:29 AM

What a fascinating fellow creature. Can we even begin to imagine what it was like as he blazed the Havona trail and finally landed at God's abode?! What was his journey like?? No doubt he received lots of attention as he finally strode the halls of Havona, being the first one from time/space, then pushed on to Paradise to receive the first divine embrace for an ascender.

As Brother Bradly noted, he was from #1 superuniverse:


...The name of this pilgrim discoverer of Havona is Grandfanda, and he hailed from planet 341 of system 84 in constellation 62 of local universe 1,131 situated in superuniverse number one.... P.270 - 6



#5 Nelson G

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:19 PM

Well, he could have hailed from planet 1 of system 1 in constellation 1 of local universe 1 situated in superuniverse 1 - is there something to be learned from this as well?
To me he is the model trailblazer, possibly even a finite pattern for accepting God's most adventurous challenge - and Grandfanda likely induced many ministerial adaptations because of his personal way of doing things, that remain in existance today - I visualize Grandfanda as figuring it out on his lonsome to some degree more than those that make the journey after him.
Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#6 Nelson G

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:42 AM

Still thinking about this remarkable person and his journey, i am imagining how he may have slept during the trip through the inner circuit of Havona and on to Paradise, being introduced to eternity and the residing place of the First Source and Center of all things - God the Father, the original person - and to date, Grandfanda remains unaware of the Supreme.
In fact, not one ascender/finaliter to date is aware of the Supreme.
It is interesting to consider that this scenario will not always be the case.
As Urantia is not settled in light and life it is safe enough to assume that Nebadon is not as well. There may be other local universes or systems that are but it is also safe enough to assume that Orvonton is not either.
There may be one or more super universes that are settled in light and life but not all.
At some time in the future, this will all change and when the grand universe is settled in light and life, subsequent ascenders will have the advantage of knowing the Supreme as they begin the ascension career. Also, there will be nothing in finite creation that remains to be experienced.
Finding God the Father and eternity prior to finding the Supreme is the obvious plan - at least for some of us finite beings - and my imagination is facinated by the implications.
I am imagining weather or not Grandfanda and others who share his success still contribute to the growth of the Supreme?
Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#7 -Scott-

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:06 AM

Still thinking about this remarkable person and his journey, i am imagining how he may have slept during the trip through the inner circuit of Havona and on to Paradise, being introduced to eternity and the residing place of the First Source and Center of all things - God the Father, the original person - and to date, Grandfanda remains unaware of the Supreme.
In fact, not one ascender/finaliter to date is aware of the Supreme.
It is interesting to consider that this scenario will not always be the case.
As Urantia is not settled in light and life it is safe enough to assume that Nebadon is not as well. There may be other local universes or systems that are but it is also safe enough to assume that Orvonton is not either.
There may be one or more super universes that are settled in light and life but not all.
At some time in the future, this will all change and when the grand universe is settled in light and life, subsequent ascenders will have the advantage of knowing the Supreme as they begin the ascension career. Also, there will be nothing in finite creation that remains to be experienced.
Finding God the Father and eternity prior to finding the Supreme is the obvious plan - at least for some of us finite beings - and my imagination is facinated by the implications.
I am imagining weather or not Grandfanda and others who share his success still contribute to the growth of the Supreme?


The Supreme is has been here since the beginning of creation. He would have been just as aware of the Supreme as the ascending beings of today. The Supreme Being is the organism he would not have been aware of as a finite being. But on his arrival on Havona the Supreme Being would have really began to get a sense of this being. The Supreme Being is present on Havona, so he would have really gotten a good idea of this being on Havona. Also I bolded the part about the spiritual nature of the Supreme unifying with the power of the Almight. That is exaclty what the Supreme Being is, its the personal nature of the Supreme and the Creation (Power/Almighty) synthesizing together. In Havona creation (power) is already completed so that power-personality synthesis is already done in Havona. Havona is the pattern Universe of our Universe.

161.10) 14:6.23 4. The Supreme Being — the evolutionary unification of experiential Deity. The Havona creation is the eternal and perfect proof of the spiritual reality of the Supreme Being. This perfect creation is a revelation of the perfect and symmetrical spirit nature of God the Supreme before the beginnings of the power-personality synthesis of the finite reflections of the Paradise Deities in the experiential universes of time and space.
(161.11) 14:6.24 In Havona the power potentials of the Almighty are unified with the spiritual nature of the Supreme. This central creation is an exemplification of the future-eternal unity of the Supreme.
(161.12) 14:6.25 Havona is a perfect pattern of the universality potential of the Supreme. This universe is a finished portrayal of the future perfection of the Supreme and is suggestive of the potential of the Ultimate.
(162.1) 14:6.26 Havona exhibits finality of spirit values existing as living will creatures of supreme and perfect self-control; mind existing as ultimately equivalent to spirit; reality and unity of intelligence with an unlimited potential.

Also on our trip from a Superuniverse to Havona we won't be sleeping, we will be just as dead as we will when we die from this world. We won't be dreaming or anything there will be no consciousness at all. We will literally be unplugged, and than plugged back in. We leave our old body and old mind behind and travel in the same way that we will travel when we die in this life. Though the trip to Havona is going to be insanely long. A transport seraphim only goes 3 times the speed of light, and it has to at least clear the radius of the Superuniverse. The radius of the Superuniverse is at least half the distance of the Milky Way galaxy and than we will have to get to those dark energy tubes and pass through them and than we will finally get to Havona. It could end up being a 100,000 year trip :blink: hard to say exactly how far away Havona is from the center of the Milky Way, but it will be a long long ride.

Edited by -Scott-, 14 March 2013 - 11:14 AM.

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#8 Nelson G

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:34 AM

Seems to me that on Havona it is all pattern and potential.
The Supreme is not complete, how could anyone know him?
Are you suggesting that someone knows the end from the begining?

And the trip from inner Havona to Paradise should also be a lenghty dead sleeper?
In either case, this happens prior to the completion of the Supreme, right? At least for now.

Edited by Nelson G, 14 March 2013 - 11:55 AM.

Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#9 -Scott-

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

Seems to me that on Havona it is all pattern and potential.
The Supreme is not complete, how could anyone know him?
Are you suggesting that someone knows the end from the begining?


The Supreme Being is not complete in the finite. The Supreme is the individuality/personality of the Supreme Being, the Supreme is a real personality/personalization of God (God the Mother). That personality is complete IMO. The Power aspect of the Supreme Being is not complete in the finite universe. Yet in Havona that Power aspect is complete and the power has united with personality on the Absonite level and it is power-personality synthesizing now on the finite level.

Time is kind of a wierd thing IMO, especially on the Absonite level. On the Absonite level there is something called Transcendentals.

1162.5) 106:0.5 3. Transcendentals. This superfinite level (antecedently) follows finite progression. It implies the prefinite genesis of finite beginnings and the postfinite significance of all apparent finite endings or destinies. Much of Paradise-Havona appears to be on the transcendental order.

There is such a thing as "antecedent following". It takes some serious thinking to get this stuff IMO. I have as many questions as any one else about this stuff. The way I think about this is that time can move backwards as well as forwards in some way. You can have a transcendental from the future that is antecedent to the the present IMO. Its wierd. But perhaps the best way to think about is through this illustration.

(0:3.16). No thing is new to God, and no cosmic event ever comes as a surprise; he inhabits the circle of eternity

So if eternity is a circle and god inhabits that entire circle, perhaps some aspects of god can move in the other direction of eternity.


(1261.5) 115:3.1 The absolute cosmos is conceptually without limit; to define the extent and nature of this primal reality is to place qualifications upon infinity and to attenuate the pure concept of eternity. The idea of the infinite-eternal, the eternal-infinite, is unqualified in extent and absolute in fact. There is no language in the past, present, or future of Urantia adequate to express the reality of infinity or the infinity of reality. Man, a finite creature in an infinite cosmos, must content himself with distorted reflections and attenuated conceptions of that limitless, boundless, never-beginning, never-ending existence the comprehension of which is really beyond his ability.

So there is infinite-eternal and eternal-infinite. IMO this is hinting at eternity from two different directions. One moving in the linear fashion that we would think of, and the other moving in the opposite direction.

Edited by -Scott-, 14 March 2013 - 12:03 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#10 -Scott-

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:11 PM

Just though I would add this quote as an example of what I mean. The Supreme is a transcendental-condition eternal, or a future eternal. The Supreme is also a personality. The Supreme Being does not need to be completed on the finite level in order for the individuality of the whole/Supreme to be experienced IMO.

(13.3) 0:9.5 God the Supreme and God the Ultimate, now evolving in the experiential universes, are not existential — not past eternals, only future eternals, time-space-conditioned and transcendental-conditioned eternals. They are Deities of supreme, ultimate, and possibly supreme-ultimate endowments, but they have experienced historic universe origins. They will never have an end, but they do have personality beginnings. They are indeed actualizations of eternal and infinite Deity potentials, but they themselves are neither unqualifiedly eternal nor infinite.

Edited by -Scott-, 17 March 2013 - 01:12 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#11 Alina

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:15 PM

Seems to me that on Havona it is all pattern and potential.
The Supreme is not complete, how could anyone know him?
Are you suggesting that someone knows the end from the begining?

And the trip from inner Havona to Paradise should also be a lenghty dead sleeper?
In either case, this happens prior to the completion of the Supreme, right? At least for now.



Hello Nelson, Scott!

It seems to me that these quotes can also be used:


(1278.4) 117:0.4 The parts and individuals of the grand universe evolve as a reflection of the total evolution of the Supreme, while in turn the Supreme is the synthetic cumulative total of all grand universe evolution. From the mortal viewpoint both are evolutionary and experiential reciprocals.


(1279.3) 117:1.5 In the Supreme Being, Creator and creature are united in one Deity whose will is expressive of one divine personality. And this will of the Supreme is something more than the will of either creature or Creator, even as the sovereign will of the Master Son of Nebadon is now something more than a combination of the will of divinity and humanity. The union of Paradise perfection and time-space experience yields a new meaning value on deity levels of reality.


Greetings,

Alina
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#12 -Scott-

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:26 PM

Good quotes Alina, we can know the individuality of the Supreme because the Supreme is a person. Though We will not actually meet this personality face to face until the completion of the finite universe. We can experience that "individuality of the whole" from the Supreme.

(1264.1) 115:4.2 The source of the Supreme is in the Paradise Trinity — eternal, actual, and undivided Deity. The Supreme is first of all a spirit person, and this spirit person stems from the Trinity.

This spirit person is what is synthesizing with the (Power), to form the Supreme Being. That individuality of the whole is always in play. Though there seems to be some prerequisite to actually experiencing the harmony of this spirit person.

1260.1) 115:0.1 WITH God the Father, sonship is the great relationship. With God the Supreme, achievement is the prerequisite to status — one must do something as well as be something.

(1284.2) 117:4.6 And so, as we strive for self-expression, the Supreme is striving in us, and with us, for deity expression. As we find the Father, so has the Supreme again found the Paradise Creator of all things. As we master the problems of self-realization, so is the God of experience achieving almighty supremacy in the universes of time and space.
(1284.3) 117:4.7 Mankind does not ascend effortlessly in the universe, neither does the Supreme evolve without purposeful and intelligent action. Creatures do not attain perfection by mere passivity, nor can the spirit of Supremacy factualize the power of the Almighty without unceasing service ministry to the finite creation.
(1284.4) 117:4.8 The temporal relation of man to the Supreme is the foundation for cosmic morality, the universal sensitivity to, and acceptance of, duty. This is a morality which transcends the temporal sense of relative right and wrong; it is a morality directly predicated on the self-conscious creature’s appreciation of experiential obligation to experiential Deity. Mortal man and all other finite creatures are created out of the living potential of energy, mind, and spirit existent in the Supreme. It is upon the Supreme that the Adjuster-mortal ascender draws for the creation of the immortal and divine character of a finaliter. It is out of the very reality of the Supreme that the Adjuster, with the consent of the human will, weaves the patterns of the eternal nature of an ascending son of God.

Interesting that that this relation to the Supreme is directly related to morality, which also happens to be related to the 2nd cosmic intuition (morale discrimination) and (philosophy). I find this line also interesting. it is a morality directly predicated on the self-conscious creature’s appreciation of experiential obligation to experiential Deity. Man I wonder how many human beings are actually experiencing a morality predicted on the self-conscious appreciation of experiential deity. I bet it would be "sad to record" that few mortals are.

Edited by -Scott-, 17 March 2013 - 04:29 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#13 Alina

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:35 PM

Posted Image

http://urantia.invis...t/page__st__440
#460

#14 Nelson G

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:08 PM

When I think about being unaware of the Supreme I refer to this finite God of experience who is not yet complete. The exhaustion of all possible experience within the Grand universe has not happened, there is no experiental Trinity, many ascenders have and will continue to become Finaliters before this happens. Grandfanda is proof of this.

But when I think about statements like this:

1278.4) 117:0.4 The parts and individuals of the grand universe evolve as a reflection of the total evolution of the Supreme, while in turn the Supreme is the synthetic cumulative total of all grand universe evolution. From the mortal viewpoint both are evolutionary and experiential reciprocals.

What does it mean to evolve as a reflection of the total evolution of the Supreme?

Reciprocals as in shared, mutually corresponding, or opposites?

I must admit that I get a bit confused.
Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#15 -Scott-

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:24 AM

What does it mean to evolve as a reflection of the total evolution of the Supreme?

The Supreme has a couple of facets. There is the Almighty facet and the individuality facet. The individuality facet of the Supreme comes from above, its engaging finite reality but its origin is transcendent of the finite or even the absonite, she is God the Mother and she has a "totality attitude" This totality attitude is being reflected by the cosmos and the individuals within that cosmos, we are literally connected to each through in a cosmic system through the individuality of the whole. This Mother is engaging the "parts and individuals of the grand universe" as she does she is synthesizing or having a "synthetic" relationship to the Grand Universe which is the Almighty facet. The Almighty grows as a result. I think this paragraph is also a preface for the rest of the paper, so its probably not meant to be understood right off the bat.
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#16 Bonita

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:39 AM

When I think about being unaware of the Supreme I refer to this finite God of experience who is not yet complete. The exhaustion of all possible experience within the Grand universe has not happened, there is no experiental Trinity, many ascenders have and will continue to become Finaliters before this happens. Grandfanda is proof of this.

But when I think about statements like this:

1278.4) 117:0.4 The parts and individuals of the grand universe evolve as a reflection of the total evolution of the Supreme, while in turn the Supreme is the synthetic cumulative total of all grand universe evolution. From the mortal viewpoint both are evolutionary and experiential reciprocals.

What does it mean to evolve as a reflection of the total evolution of the Supreme?

Reciprocals as in shared, mutually corresponding, or opposites?

I must admit that I get a bit confused.


God the Supreme is the manifestation of the total will of God (117:0.1). We know that the will of God is not always discernible in one individual life, nor is it always completely manifested on one world, one local universe or even one superuniverse. But as we evolve toward manifesting the will of God individually, we benefit also from the totality of the experiential creation and the efforts of others who manifest the will of God. When an individual attunes to God's will by his/her personality's power of choice, not only is that single individual advancing, but by that single individual's power-personality synthesis, so is the totality of the Supreme advancing. It is reciprocal in that the act is ours but the consequences are God's; one affects the other.

117:0.3 When an evolving mind becomes attuned to the circuits of cosmic mind, when an evolving universe becomes stabilized after the pattern of the central universe, when an advancing spirit contacts the united ministry of the Master Spirits, when an ascending mortal personality finally attunes to the divine leading of the indwelling Adjuster, then has the actuality of the Supreme become real by one more degree in the universes; then has the divinity of Supremacy advanced one more step toward cosmic realization.


Every choice we make has the potential of contributing to the evolution of the Supreme by our personality's power to transform potentials into actuals. We creatures are an essential and integral part of the power-personality synthesis of the Supreme.

p1286:4 117:5.6 The progressing personality leaves a trail of actualized reality as it passes through the ascending levels of the universes. Be they mind, spirit, or energy, the growing creations of time and space are modified by the progression of personality through their domains. When man acts, the Supreme reacts, and this transaction constitutes the fact of progression.

#17 -Scott-

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:47 AM

If anyone is curious, Chris Halvorson has an amazing study synopsis of each one of the Supreme papers http://www.perfectinghorizons.org/AudioFiles/Part%20III-L%20Experiential%20Deity.htm. I have just started listening to them but so far they have really helped me. I also have permission from him to post material from his website on this forum, so hopefully this does not get taken down.

Edited by -Scott-, 18 March 2013 - 10:48 AM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#18 Alina

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:20 PM

Hi to all!

In my words, we evolve and contribute to the evolution of the Supreme, while the evolution of the Supreme helps us in our own evolution.
There is a quote that I can not encounter, which says the percentage that is minimal, infradecimal, which is what the Supreme lost, or rather, not win when the mortal rejects survival.
(If any of you remember where is , please be copied here?)


(1281.4) 117:3.2 The Supreme is the divine channel through which flows the creative infinity of the triodities that crystallizes into the galactic panorama of space, against which takes place the magnificent personality drama of time: the spirit conquest of energy-matter through the mediation of mind.


(1281.5) 117:3.3 Said Jesus: “I am the living way,” and so he is the living way from the material level of self-consciousness to the spiritual level of God-consciousness. And even as he is this living way of ascension from the self to God, so is the Supreme the living way from finite consciousness to transcendence of consciousness, even to the insight of absonity.

(1281.6) 117:3.4 Your Creator Son can actually be such a living channel from humanity to divinity since he has personally experienced the fullness of the traversal of this universe path of progression, from the true humanity of Joshua ben Joseph, the Son of Man, to the Paradise divinity of Michael of Nebadon, the Son of the infinite God. Similarly can the Supreme Being function as the universe approach to the transcendence of finite limitations, for he is the actual embodiment and personal epitome of all creature evolution, progression, and spiritualization. Even the grand universe experiences of the descending personalities from Paradise are that part of his experience which is complemental to his summation of the ascending experiences of the pilgrims of time.


Alina
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Edited by Alina, 18 March 2013 - 12:22 PM.


#19 Bonita

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:41 PM

117:4.2 Throughout the grand universe the Supreme struggles for expression. His divine evolution is in measure predicated on the wisdom-action of every personality in existence. When a human being chooses eternal survival, he is cocreating destiny; and in the life of this ascending mortal the finite God finds an increased measure of personality self-realization and an enlargement of experiential sovereignty. But if a creature rejects the eternal career, that part of the Supreme which was dependent on this creature’s choice experiences inescapable delay, a deprivation which must be compensated by substitutional or collateral experience; as for the personality of the nonsurvivor, it is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the Deity of the Supreme.

#20 Alina

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

Thanks Bonita, but it is not I seek, the one I have in mind is the word infradecimal or similar.
The most probable, as often happens, is that it is within the pages of another Paper.

But keep looking! Not the first time through with that quote, hides, :) I had copied and kept apart long ago, but not now find it! :rolleyes:




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