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Did Jesus have a soul?


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#1 brooklyn_born

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:50 PM

Did Jesus have a soul?

#2 Bonita

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:04 PM

Of course.

#3 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:24 PM

The soul is a mortal's morontia mind is it not? And Jesus had TA and His soul content was quite extensive, even as a teen. At the time of His baptism, His soul and commitment was sufficient for fusion, whereby the soul becomes the mortal's morontia mind upon translation (if still mortal at the time). I would assume the soul content and spiritual experiences of the mind/soul are His still and always and were also received by the Supreme as are all such experiences by all creatures high and low.

A more complex question might be: Did Jesus' soul become morontia mind while He still walked among us? Or is there truly no difference in soul and morontia mind?

B)
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#4 brooklyn_born

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:32 PM

The soul is a mortal's morontia mind is it not? And Jesus had TA and His soul content was quite extensive, even as a teen. At the time of His baptism, His soul and commitment was sufficient for fusion, whereby the soul becomes the mortal's morontia mind upon translation (if still mortal at the time). I would assume the soul content and spiritual experiences of the mind/soul are His still and always and were also received by the Supreme as are all such experiences by all creatures high and low.

A more complex question might be: Did Jesus' soul become morontia mind while He still walked among us? Or is there truly no difference in soul and morontia mind?

B)

Perhaps that is what I wanted to ask :-)

#5 Bonita

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:02 PM

A more complex question might be: Did Jesus' soul become morontia mind while He still walked among us? Or is there truly no difference in soul and morontia mind? B)


Yes of course Jesus' soul and everyone else's soul becomes the morontia mind while walking the earth. It is possible to access the morontia mind; it's called soul-consciousness.

5:2.5 As the soul of joint mind and Adjuster creation becomes increasingly existent, there also evolves a new phase of soul consciousness which is capable of experiencing the presence, and of recognizing the spirit leadings and other supermaterial activities, of the Mystery Monitors.

#6 Bill Martin

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:11 PM

He came from Paradise into the time-space universe to replicate in time what He knows in Eternity. Although not pre-existential or post eternal, He will always be my first Father.
The part of the Master we call soul probably belongs to the Immanence of the Projected Incomplete. Who knows what will happen with this soul substance in the ages to come. Perhaps this essence of existential divinity will someday be personalized and play a role in the Supreme-Ultimate Transcendental levels of the "future." I know it is too good to "put on a shelf."




P.56 - §2 There is also an organic unity in the universes of time and space which seems to underlie the whole fabric of cosmic events. This living presence of the evolving Supreme Being, this Immanence of the Projected Incomplete, is inexplicably manifested ever and anon by what appears to be an amazingly fortuitous co-ordination of apparently unrelated universe happenings. This must be the function of Providence--the realm of the Supreme Being and the Conjoint Actor.

P.1291 - §10 It may be that on the upper limits of the finite, where time conjoins transcended time, there is some sort of blurring and blending of sequence. It may be that the Supreme is able to forecast his universe presence onto these supertime levels and then to a limited degree anticipate future evolution by reflecting this future forecast back to the created levels as the Immanence of the Projected Incomplete. Such phenomena may be observed wherever finite makes contact with superfinite, as in the experiences of human beings who are indwelt by Thought Adjusters that are veritable predictions of man's future universe attainments throughout all eternity."

Transcendentals are subinfinite and subabsolute but superfinite and supercreatural. Transcendentals eventuate as an integrating level correlating the supervalues of absolutes with the maximum values of finites. From the creature standpoint, that which is transcendental would appear to have eventuated as a consequence of the finite; from the eternity viewpoint, in anticipation of the finite; and there are those who have considered it as a "pre-echo" of the finite.
P.1159 - §7 That which is transcendental is not necessarily nondevelopmental, but it is superevolutional in the finite sense; neither is it nonexperiential, but it is superexperience as such is meaningful to creatures.
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#7 Bonita

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:27 PM

Quotes about Jesus' soul:

188:3.4 We are not able fully to explain just what happened to Jesus of Nazareth during this period of a day and a half when he was supposed to be resting in Joseph's new tomb. Apparently he died the same natural death on the cross as would any other mortal in the same circumstances. We heard him say, "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit." We do not fully understand the meaning of such a statement inasmuch as his Thought Adjuster had long since been personalized and so maintained an existence apart from Jesus' mortal being. The Master's Personalized Adjuster could in no sense be affected by his physical death on the cross. That which Jesus put in the Father's hands for the time being must have been the spirit counterpart of the Adjuster's early work in spiritizing the mortal mind so as to provide for the transfer of the transcript of the human experience to the mansion worlds. There must have been some spiritual reality in the experience of Jesus which was analogous to the spirit nature, or soul, of the faith-growing mortals of the spheres. But this is merely our opinion - we do not really know what Jesus commended to his Father.


188:3.8 3. The acquired spirit identity of the man of Nazareth which was built up during his lifetime in the flesh, first, by the direct efforts of his Thought Adjuster, and later, by his own perfect adjustment between the physical necessities and the spiritual requirements of the ideal mortal existence, as it was effected by his never-ceasing choice of the Father's will, must have been consigned to the custody of the Paradise Father. Whether or not this spirit reality returned to become a part of the resurrected personality, we do not know, but we believe it did. But there are those in the universe who hold that this soul-identity of Jesus now reposes in the "bosom of the Father," to be subsequently released for leadership of the Nebadon Corps of the Finality in their undisclosed destiny in connection with the uncreated universes of the unorganized realms of outer space.

#8 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:34 PM

So, Michael's TA and Michael and the Supreme - all have the experience in truth that a soul/morontia mind acquires by mortal mind in the flesh. Or so I understand the following:



(1179.2) 107:2.8 7. Personalized Adjusters, those who have served with the incarnated Paradise Sons, together with many who have achieved unusual distinction during the mortal indwelling, but whose subjects rejected survival. We have reasons for believing that such Adjusters are personalized on the recommendations of the Ancients of Days of the superuniverse of their assignment.

(1180.2) 107:3.9 The valor and wisdom exhibited by Thought Adjusters suggest that they have undergone a training of tremendous scope and range. Since they are not personalities, this training must be imparted in the educational institutions of Divinington. The unique Personalized Adjusters no doubt constitute the personnel of the Adjuster training schools of Divinington. And we do know that this central and supervising corps is presided over by the now Personalized Adjuster of the first Paradise Son of the Michael order to complete his sevenfold bestowal upon the races and peoples of his universe realms.


(1200.2) 109:6.2 As related to fusion candidates, if a Mystery Monitor is deserted by the mortal associate, if the human partner declines to pursue the ascending career, when released by natural death (or prior thereto), the Adjuster carries away everything of survival value which has evolved in the mind of that nonsurviving creature. If an Adjuster should repeatedly fail to attain fusion personality because of the nonsurvival of successive human subjects, and if this Monitor should subsequently be personalized, all the acquired experience of having indwelt and mastered all these mortal minds would become the actual possession of such a newly Personalized Adjuster, an endowment to be enjoyed and utilized throughout all future ages. A Personalized Adjuster of this order is a composite assembly of all the survival traits of all his former creature hosts.

(1200.3) 109:6.3 When Adjusters of long universe experience volunteer to indwell divine Sons on bestowal missions, they full well know that personality attainment can never be achieved through this service. But often does the Father of spirits grant personality to these volunteers and establish them as directors of their kind. These are the personalities honored with authority on Divinington. And their unique natures embody the mosaic humanity of their multiple experiences of mortal indwelling and also the spirit transcript of the human divinity of the Paradise bestowal Son of the terminal indwelling experience.

(1200.4) 109:6.4 The activities of Adjusters in your local universe are directed by the Personalized Adjuster of Michael of Nebadon, that very Monitor who guided him step by step when he lived his human life in the flesh of Joshua ben Joseph. Faithful to his trust was this extraordinary Adjuster, and wisely did this valiant Monitor direct the human nature, ever guiding the mortal mind of the Paradise Son in the choosing of the path of the Father’s perfect will. This Adjuster had previously served with Machiventa Melchizedek in the days of Abraham and had engaged in tremendous exploits both previous to this indwelling and between these bestowal experiences.

(1201.3) 109:7.2 Personalized Thought Adjusters are the untrammeled,unassigned, and sovereign stabilizers and compensators of the far-flung universe of universes. They combine the Creator and creature experience — existential and experiential. They are conjoint time and eternity beings. They associate the prepersonal and the personal in universe administration. *

(1201.4) 109:7.3 Personalized Adjusters are the all-wise and powerful executives of the Architects of the Master Universe. They are the personal agents of the full ministry of the Universal Father — personal, prepersonal, and superpersonal. They are the personal ministers of the extraordinary, the unusual, and the unexpected throughout all the realms of the transcendental absonite spheres of the domain of God the Ultimate, even to the levels of God the Absolute.

(1201.5) 109:7.4 They are the exclusive beings of the universes who embrace within their being all the known relationships of personality; they are omnipersonal — they are before personality, they are personality, and they are after personality. They minister the personality of the Universal Father as in the eternal past, the eternal present, and the eternal future.
Peace be upon you."

#9 Bonita

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:33 PM

Our Master Michael is the only personality in our universe to possess unlimited capacity to experience the reality of the Supreme and reveal him to us.

101:6.5 After his ascension Michael became master of the experience of Supremacy, the realization of the Supreme; and being the one person in Nebadon possessed of unlimited capacity to experience the reality of the Supreme, he forthwith attained to the status of the sovereignty of supremacy in and to his local universe.

33:2.4 . . . the creature-bestowal experiences of the Michaels qualify them to portray the experiential divinity of the Supreme Being.
This quote

As for the human soul, a relationship with the Supreme Being develops during progression through the psychic circles.

110:6.16 Perhaps these psychic circles of mortal progression would be better denominated cosmic levels — actual meaning grasps and value realizations of progressive approach to the morontia consciousness of initial relationship of the evolutionary soul with the emerging Supreme Being. And it is this very relationship that makes it forever impossible fully to explain the significance of the cosmic circles to the material mind. These circle attainments are only relatively related to God-consciousness. A seventh or sixth circler can be almost as truly God-knowing — sonship conscious — as a second or first circler, but such lower circle beings are far less conscious of experiential relation to the Supreme Being, universe citizenship. The attainment of these cosmic circles will become a part of the ascenders’ experience on the mansion worlds if they fail of such achievement before natural death.

#10 -Scott-

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:03 PM

Just want to add that our Morontia Body is our soul. Jesus resurrected in his soul body :). I think that should help clarify.
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#11 Bonita

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 09:30 AM

The morontia body is not the soul. It is the vehicle for the soul. The soul is the morontia mind. Remember that the seraphic destiny guardians are responsible for transporting the soul to the resurrection hall. The soul is the mind-matrix. The morontia body, however, is the work of the Morontia Power Supervisors (Paper 48 section 2) who create a morontia body from morontia energy.

47:3.3 The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians.

Three separate things are necessary for resurrection on the mansion worlds, a morontia body, the Adjuster and the soul:

112:5.18-20
1. The fabrication of a suitable form, a morontia energy pattern, in which the new survivor can make contact with nonspiritual reality, and within which the morontia variant of the cosmic mind can be encircuited.

2. The return of the Adjuster to the waiting morontia creature. The Adjuster is the eternal custodian of your ascending identity; your Monitor is the absolute assurance that you yourself and not another will occupy the morontia form created for your personality awakening. And the Adjuster will be present at your personality reassembly to take up once more the role of Paradise guide to your surviving self.

3. When these prerequisites of repersonalization have been assembled, the seraphic custodian of the potentialities of the slumbering immortal soul, with the assistance of numerous cosmic personalities, bestows this morontia entity upon and in the awaiting morontia mind-body form while committing this evolutionary child of the Supreme to eternal association with the waiting Adjuster. And this completes the repersonalization, reassembly of memory, insight, and consciousness - identity.

#12 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:00 AM

(481.2) 42:10.5 3. Evolving morontia minds — the expanding consciousness of evolving personalities in the local universe ascending careers. This is the bestowal of the local universe Mother Spirit in liaison with the Creator Son. This mind level connotes the organization of the morontia type of life vehicle, a synthesis of the material and the spiritual which is effected by the Morontia Power Supervisors of a local universe. Morontia mind functions differentially in response to the 570 levels of morontia life, disclosing increasing associative capacity with the cosmic mind on the higher levels of attainment. This is the evolutionary course of mortal creatures, but mind of a nonmorontia order is also bestowed by a Universe Son and a Universe Spirit upon the nonmorontia children of the local creations.


(483.9) 42:12.9 Mind is always creative. The mind endowment of an individual animal, mortal, morontian, spirit ascender, or finality attainer is always competent to produce a suitable and serviceable body for the living creature identity. But the presence phenomenon of a personality or the pattern of an identity, as such, is not a manifestation of energy, either physical, mindal, or spiritual. The personality form is the pattern aspect of a living being; it connotes the arrangement of energies, and this, plus life and motion, is the mechanism of creature existence.

(483.10) 42:12.10 Even spirit beings have form, and these spirit forms (patterns) are real. Even the highest type of spirit personalities have forms — personality presences in every sense analogous to Urantia mortal bodies. Nearly all beings encountered in the seven superuniverses are possessed of forms. But there are a few exceptions to this general rule: Thought Adjusters appear to be without form until after fusion with the surviving souls of their mortal associates. Solitary Messengers, Inspired Trinity Spirits, Personal Aids of the Infinite Spirit, Gravity Messengers, Transcendental Recorders, and certain others are also without discoverable form. But these are typical of the exceptional few; the great majority have bona fide personality forms, forms which are individually characteristic, and which are recognizable and personally distinguishable.

(483.11) 42:12.11 The liaison of the cosmic mind and the ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits evolve a suitable physical tabernacle for the evolving human being. Likewise does the morontia mind individualize the morontia form for all mortal survivors. As the mortal body is personal and characteristic for every human being, so will the morontia form be highly individual and adequately characteristic of the creative mind which dominates it. No two morontia forms are any more alike than any two human bodies. The Morontia Power Supervisors sponsor, and the attending seraphim provide, the undifferentiated morontia material wherewith the morontia life can begin to work. And after the morontia life it will be found that spirit forms are equally diverse, personal, and characteristic of their respective spirit-mind indwellers.

(483.12) 42:12.12 On a material world you think of a body as having a spirit, but we regard the spirit as having a body. The material eyes are truly the windows of the spirit-born soul. The spirit is the architect, the mind is the builder, the body is the material building.
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#13 -Scott-

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:52 AM

Yes he had a morontia body and would have had needed a morontia mind (soul) to live in that body. I mispoke.

Edited by -Scott-, 13 February 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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#14 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 05:16 PM

Michael skipped the 570 different morontial body forms of ever greater spiritization of form. There's a quote somewhere about the soul or morontia mind have much to do with our morontia physical form or look (not body or material type) as we retain individualization and personal identification in some way. But we will have bodies for a long time to come while Michael assumed his form upon leaving the mortal shell behind.


(542.1) 48:1.4 The early morontia life in the local systems is very much like that of your present material world, becoming less physical and more truly morontial on the constellation study worlds. And as you advance to the Salvington spheres, you increasingly attain spiritual levels.

(542.2) 48:1.5 The Morontia Power Supervisors are able to effect a union of material and of spiritual energies, thereby organizing a morontia form of materialization which is receptive to the superimposition of a controlling spirit. When you traverse the morontia life of Nebadon, these same patient and skillful Morontia Power Supervisors will successively provide you with 570 morontia bodies, each one a phase of your progressive transformation. From the time of leaving the material worlds until you are constituted a first-stage spirit on Salvington, you will undergo just 570 separate and ascending morontia changes. Eight of these occur in the system, seventy-one in the constellation, and 491 during the sojourn on the spheres of Salvington.

(542.3) 48:1.6 In the days of the mortal flesh the divine spirit indwells you, almost as a thing apart — in reality an invasion of man by the bestowed spirit of the Universal Father. But in the morontia life the spirit will become a real part of your personality, and as you successively pass through the 570 progressive transformations, you ascend from the material to the spiritual estate of creature life.

What's our form in the super universe adventure? As we are not yet pure spirit I don't think.
Peace be upon you."




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