Jump to content


Photo

Is the Urantia Book holy?


  • Please log in to reply
55 replies to this topic

#21 Absonite

Absonite

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 344 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Studying the cosmotheosophy (the cosmology, theology, and philosophy) taught by the Urantia Book.

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:12 PM

I think it would be very wise to E-Prime all this talk about evil.

#22 -Scott-

-Scott-

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,023 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Camping, Hiking, Soccer, Movies, Games,

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:23 PM

I agree with Bonita on this. Evil is just immaturity, a lack of insight, mistaken,incomplete. In which case we have it in spades.

(2088.5) 196:0.10 Jesus brought to God, as a man of the realm, the greatest of all ..... He was not a moral skeptic; he viewed man positively, not negatively. He saw most men as weak rather than wicked, more distraught than depraved


Edited by -Scott-, 20 January 2013 - 12:24 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#23 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

I think it would be very wise to E-Prime all this talk about evil.


Meaning leave out the "be's"?

#24 Rick Warren

Rick Warren

    Rick Warren

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 9,923 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

I agree with Bonita on this. Evil is just immaturity, a lack of insight, mistaken,incomplete. In which case we have it in spades.


I don't believe people are evil. Most people are fundamentally good, tho they may and will do evil, and worse. To say people are evil is to say they are unreal, isn't it? We have a Fragment of Reality, and a soul, both are real.

#25 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

Enter the word...."wicked"...a term of volitional intent to me...a sinful or iniquitous mind...far beyond error/evil.
Peace be upon you."

#26 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:01 PM

If without holiness, men will not see God, what is holiness, how do we attain it, and what relationship does the Urantia Book have to holiness? It might seem like I am just being a bother and I am sorry for that but holiness must be pretty darn important if we cannot see God without it.


Howard, without experience with evil you wouldn't recognize holiness, which is why I'm talking about it. We progress as we learn to discern the difference and make choices accordingly. You can't be holy without a soul. You can't have a soul unless you make choices. What are the choices? Choices between evil and other-than-evil. The book doesn't give you any opportunity for choices unless you think reading or not reading is a supreme choice contributing to soul growth. It's pretty darn basic. No magic words, no mysterious knowledge to figure out, no supernatural phenomena occur from reading a book. No, that's not the way. You have to live sincerely, stay honest and trusting, have faith in God's goodness and make choices . . . . lots and lots and lots of them because many of them will be wrong.

118:6.6 In the mortal life, paths of differential conduct are continually opening and closing, and during the times when choice is possible the human personality is constantly deciding between these many courses of action. Temporal volition is linked to time, and it must await the passing of time to find opportunity for expression. Spiritual volition has begun to taste liberation from the fetters of time, having achieved partial escape from time sequence, and that is because spiritual volition is self-identifying with the will of God.

39:4.14 The keys of the kingdom of heaven are: sincerity, more sincerity, and more sincerity. All men have these keys. Men use them - advance in spirit status - by decisions, by more decisions, and by more decisions. The highest moral choice is the choice of the highest possible value, and always - in any sphere, in all of them - this is to choose to do the will of God. If man thus chooses, he is great, though he be the humblest citizen of Jerusem or even the least of mortals on Urantia.

There already is a thread somewhere on righteousness. Don't remember where or what's in it though.

#27 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:01 PM

Friend Howard - I think the group think has well spoken on the issue of holy and sacred. The Revelation is "sacred"....to me, as a text of revealed truth to all...but is the book a "sacred book"? would have to remain - no. What is sacred is the discovery of truth, beauty, and goodness....whatever their source.....and to be changed by our experience of those. Love is sacred and truth and beauty and goodness - all. It is the becoming that is sacred and not the path upon which we progressively become...one with Father.
Peace be upon you."

#28 -Scott-

-Scott-

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,023 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Camping, Hiking, Soccer, Movies, Games,

Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

I don't believe people are evil.


Yea I wouldn't think people are the personification of evil. When Jesus says he views men as weak and distraught. Weak and distraught Imo is evil. Not that we are doing anything bad though.

Edited by -Scott-, 20 January 2013 - 01:06 PM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#29 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:31 PM

I don't believe people are evil. Most people are fundamentally good, tho they may and will do evil, and worse. To say people are evil is to say they are unreal, isn't it? We have a Fragment of Reality, and a soul, both are real.


Yes, that's why I said to remember that we are dual nature beings. The personality chooses which nature to identify with. That's the evolution of dominance. And according to those choices we either move from imperfection to perfection, from evil to godlikeness, or we go back to the finite dust from which we came.


34:6.9 In every mortal there exists a dual nature: the inheritance of animal tendencies and the high urge of spirit endowment. During the short life you live on Urantia, these two diverse and opposing urges can seldom be fully reconciled; they can hardly be harmonized and unified; but throughout your lifetime the combined Spirit ever ministers to assist you in subjecting the flesh more and more to the leading of the Spirit. Even though you must live your material life through, even though you cannot escape the body and its necessities, nonetheless, in purpose and ideals you are empowered increasingly to subject the animal nature to the mastery of the Spirit. There truly exists within you a conspiracy of spiritual forces, a confederation of divine powers, whose exclusive purpose is to effect your final deliverance from material bondage and finite handicaps.

#30 Bradly aka/fanofVan

Bradly aka/fanofVan

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midwest USA
  • Interests:Gardening, sustainable agriculture/micro-farming, history, philosophy, behavioral psych, economics (quit laughing), the blues, learning from children.

Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:48 PM

Friend Howard, allow me to elaborate....the Urantia Book was not a sacred text to me when first it found me. But with every truth and change in mind over the years and readings and changes in choosing by expanding intent, discernment between superior and inferior, and act according to the truths discovered, the book has "become" sacred "to me". By this standard nothing is sacred according to any others but only becomes sacred for the one inspired and changed by that theycome to hold as sacred....and yet it remains true that it is the transcendence that is sacred and not the device or vehicle for the transcendence.

The relative value of the Revelation is extraordinary when it comes to truth, beauty, and goodness. But of what value has it except for the transcendence opportunities it provides to the pilgrim who reads it and comes to believe, over time, one confirmed truth after another?

While the Revelation is held sacred by me, it is also paradoxical to me as I also view it as simple truth....a textbook of knowledge widely available throughout the universes of time and space, a mere primer on the totality yet to be revealed by further text books and "professors" of truth, beauty, and goodness in the ages to come. It is just a text book Howard, until it becomes something far more. I hope you come to find a sacred experience by this and many other means and examples of His truth, beauty, and goodness. The sacred is all around us all the time if we but discern it.
Peace be upon you."

#31 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:20 PM

Let's be clear about one thing. Jesus said that scriptures are sacred only because they are a record of the highest hopes, thoughts and acts of men striving to find God and be like him. TUB is not written by striving humans. It is not a record of man's highest aspirations and struggles, although it contains some stories about those men and women, it is not written by those men and women bleeding out their hearts and sharing them with the world.

159:4.4 Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.

What we consider to be sacred changes. At one time it was considered sacred to have sex in the temple as a form of worship. Even holiness is evolutionary. True righteousness is the natural spirit-born fruit of living in the presence of God. It has nothing at all to do with scriptures, books, relics, temples, rituals, following religious laws or other types of religious practices. That which is sacred, holy and righteous has to do with men and women living according to their highest and truest convictions, always striving for even higher meanings and values.

155:3.5 One of the great lessons of this sojourn at Caesarea had to do with the origin of religious traditions, with the grave danger of allowing a sense of sacredness to become attached to nonsacred things, common ideas, or everyday events. From one conference they emerged with the teaching that true religion was man's heartfelt loyalty to his highest and truest convictions.

#32 Jose Alberto Wonsover

Jose Alberto Wonsover

    Poster

  • Moderators
  • PipPip
  • 859 posts

Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

No, but they say we are imperfect, immature and ignorant which is the same thing. They also say that evil is inherent in the natural order of this world, which we are part of. But you forget that we are of a dual nature. Not all of our nature is imperfect. We're both.

2:2.7 Human limitations, potential evil, are not a part of the divine nature, but mortal experience with evil and all man’s relations thereto are most certainly a part of God’s ever-expanding self-realization in the children of time — creatures of moral responsibility who have been created or evolved by every Creator Son going out from Paradise.

Every single one of us has limitations, we're all unfinished, which makes all of us potentially evil.



When I have the opportunity to make a painting, or take a beautiful picture I always think of the possibility of beauty (I call perfection) over whether or not I "imperfect." If I stay with this idea of ​​imperfection even anything I can do, for more simple will be, would have many errors, It would really ugly and it would be anything but pleasant.

The idea is always from the base of the positive ... Positive! ... As Life itself as well!

Posted Image


There is beauty in the actuality… We are sons and daughters of God!

The Beauty is inside us… “God within us” as the Bible says... As Jesus says!. It’s a wonderful and eternal reality.

My question is... Is potential more than Actuality?. Or why sometimes we focus only in a potential more than Actuality?

I thought everything is important. Not only potentiality, but also do not forget.... Actuality.

Posted Image

#33 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

Let's be clear about one thing. Jesus said that scriptures are sacred only because they are a record of the highest hopes, thoughts and acts of men striving to find God and be like him. TUB is not written by striving humans. It is not a record of man's highest aspirations and struggles, although it contains some stories about those men and women, it is not written by those men and women bleeding out their hearts and sharing them with the world.


What is the difference of who wrote it if the contents are about a people striving for holiness and about how to attain holiness?

That which is sacred, holy and righteous has to do with men and women living according to their highest and truest convictions, always striving for even higher meanings and values.


Is the Urantia Book a better guide for that than just any random book in the new age section of a bookstore?

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#34 Bill Martin

Bill Martin

    Poster

  • Moderators
  • PipPip
  • 941 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rio Dulce, Izabal, Guatemala
  • Interests:destiny interception, kindred spirits, Sailing my ketch, cooking, reading ( a book a day, if possible), helping fellow sojurners on the path of righteousness.I am most interested in building strong relationships with fellow kingdom builders knowing that we will be serving together, off and on, through time and into eternity.

Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:50 PM

ONLY GOD IS HOLY
Slowly but surely the Power of Love is overcoming the Love of Power

#35 Howard509

Howard509

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 352 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

ONLY GOD IS HOLY

(1104.6) 101:1.3 The divine spirit makes contact with mortal man, not by feelings or emotions, but in the realm of the highest and most spiritualized thinking. It is your thoughts, not your feelings, that lead you Godward. The divine nature may be perceived only with the eyes of the mind. But the mind that really discerns God, hears the indwelling Adjuster, is the pure mind. “Without holiness no man may see the Lord.” All such inner and spiritual communion is termed spiritual insight. Such religious experiences result from the impress made upon the mind of man by the combined operations of the Adjuster and the Spirit of Truth as they function amid and upon the ideas, ideals, insights, and spirit strivings of the evolving sons of God.

If without holiness, men will not see God, what is holiness, how do we attain it, and what relationship does the Urantia Book have to holiness?


We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#36 -Scott-

-Scott-

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,023 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Camping, Hiking, Soccer, Movies, Games,

Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:36 PM

The Holy Spirit will help is with that holy stuff.
If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom

#37 Nigel Nunn

Nigel Nunn

    Poster

  • Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 1,118 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:08 AM

With regard to what's considered holy and sacred, another factor is the difference between the motivations aroused by the adjutant of worship and the choices grasped by a growing soul.

Look at a crowd, frenzied by their shared feeling that their [insert sacred thing here] has been [insert offense taken here]. Sure, such mutual righteous indignation may be great glue for cultural bonding, but it is hardly lovely. Let alone spiritual.

Nigel

#38 Coop

Coop

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 251 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh PA

Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:21 AM






“Chanting is no more holy than listening to the murmur of a stream,

counting prayer beads no more scared than simply breathing,

religious robes no more spiritual than work clothes.”

Lao Tzu

Edited by Coop, 21 January 2013 - 07:31 AM.


#39 Bonita

Bonita

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,523 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:USA

Posted 21 January 2013 - 07:21 AM

Is the Urantia Book a better guide for that than just any random book in the new age section of a bookstore?


The guide is God who writes in the book of your heart.

#40 -Scott-

-Scott-

    Poster

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1,023 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Camping, Hiking, Soccer, Movies, Games,

Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:06 AM

Is the Urantia Book a better guide for that than just any random book in the new age section of a bookstore?


lol look at the author and think which one probably has a better idea of god? There is even an author in the u.b that has actually stood in the presence of the Universal Father....He may know a thing or two.....Than again what would a guy like that have on Deepak Chopra? LOL

Edited by -Scott-, 21 January 2013 - 11:50 AM.

If one man craves freedom -- liberty -- he must remember that all other men long for the same freedom




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users