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Urantia Book miracles?


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#1 Howard509

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:44 AM

I am wondering if there were any miraculous occurrences associated with the origins of the Urantia Book. I've read, for example, that questions would be written on a piece of paper and left in a drawer and that the papers would materialize as answers. Are there more stories like this?

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#2 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:45 AM

Thanks for asking for the "miraculous" rather than any miracles....as there are no miracles, ever. Now the miraculous is different, eh? It is the appearence to the beholder and there is much that we might consider such. A miracle is contrary to universe laws and everything that ever has happened or ever will happen by Father or His ministering spirits on His behalf are done so within God's laws and patterns and personality, eh? I've heard stories of the origin of text which might easily be considered miraculous by mortals, but were not really.
Peace be upon you."

#3 Howard509

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:35 PM

What are the stories?

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#4 Bonita

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:44 PM

Thanks for asking for the "miraculous" rather than any miracles....as there are no miracles, ever.


Do you mean in the absence of an incarnated Creator Son on earth? If so, then perhaps you are right. But Jesus did actually perform many miracles or supermaterial acts.

149:2.7 When the Creator himself was on earth, incarnated in the likeness of mortal flesh, it was inevitable that some extraordinary things should happen. But you should never approach Jesus through these so-called miraculous occurrences. Learn to approach the miracle through Jesus, but do not make the mistake of approaching Jesus through the miracle. And this admonition is warranted, notwithstanding that Jesus of Nazareth is the only founder of a religion who performed supermaterial acts on earth.

Even the authors of TUB admit that the incarnation of a Creator Son is a miracle.

120:4.5 Urantia mortals have varying concepts of the miraculous, but to us who live as citizens of the local universe there are few miracles, and of these by far the most intriguing are the incarnational bestowals of the Paradise Sons. The appearance in and on your world, by apparently natural processes, of a divine Son, we regard as a miracle - the operation of universal laws beyond our understanding. Jesus of Nazareth was a miraculous person.

#5 Howard509

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

Did anything happen with the origin of the Urantia Book that natural science cannot explain?

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


#6 Bonita

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:13 PM

Have no idea . . . wasn't there . . . and don't care. But to your point, conversations with invisible beings can't be explained by current science. And for that matter, the morontia level of reality cannot be detected by current science. One way to detect the existence of something invisible is by the effect it has on the visible. We have the visible book which some believe is enough evidence of the invisible. Then again, some don't.

115:6.7 Human beings have learned that the motion of the invisible may sometimes be discerned by observing its effects on the visible; and we in the universes have long since learned to detect the movements and trends of Supremacy by observing the repercussions of such evolutions in the personalities and patterns of the grand universe.

#7 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

Morontial, supermaterial, or spirit are not miracles and the only definition given of miracle is " - the operation of universal laws beyond our understanding." which is really the definition of miraculous, not miracle. Anything within God's law is no miracle and I recall none by Jesus despite His surprise and the Lazarus affair, these only are beyond explanaition or understanding but certainly NOT outside of law and pattern....mostly outside of time and space or within but not limited by them. Michael was hardly the first miracle of mortal incarnation or birth of a Creator Son so that was no miracle either, merely miraculous in the eyes of the beholder. What's a miracle? I mean to a nonmortal as we ascribe miracles to much we do not understand, eh?

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 31 December 2012 - 04:34 PM.

Peace be upon you."

#8 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 06:14 PM

To me everything is a miracle but to Father, nothing is, eh? To all inbetween He and me, it's a matter of experience only...much is miraculous, indeed whatever cannot be explained, like a seed becoming tree or flower turning to fruit or the colors in the desert at sunset or the chuckle of a child. The more wonderous the world, the more we are seeing it. But our Revelation is clear about the error of and those who seek signs, wonders, and miracles as any evidence of truth or reality. It is not worthy or not truly. And to any who are not present for such, it's perpetuation is but rumors for the ears of those who need it not. IMO. B)

Edited by Bradly aka/fanofVan, 01 January 2013 - 08:44 AM.

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#9 Nelson G

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:06 PM

Larry Mullins with Dr Sprunger wrote an unauthorized history of the papers.
To elaborate just a little bit: I read the book and still do not understand much about their information in regard to their description of process and the authors in my opinion did good research.
The most meaningful part of the book to me in this regard was a list of the references within the Urantia Book where - as Dr Saddler explained - everything that you want to know about the process is in TUB.
Reading those references was much more satisfactory than the account of the authors.
Hardly seems miraculous to me but if someone wants to see it that way - makes no difference imho. It changes nothing about the book.

Edited by Nelson G, 01 January 2013 - 10:09 PM.

Life often gives us our greatest gifts brilliantly disguised as our worst nightmares.

#10 Bonita

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 08:08 AM

Morontial, supermaterial, or spirit are not miracles and the only definition given of miracle is " - the operation of universal laws beyond our understanding." which is really the definition of miraculous, not miracle. Anything within God's law is no miracle and I recall none by Jesus despite His surprise and the Lazarus affair, these only are beyond explanaition or understanding but certainly NOT outside of law and pattern....mostly outside of time and space or within but not limited by them. Michael was hardly the first miracle of mortal incarnation or birth of a Creator Son so that was no miracle either, merely miraculous in the eyes of the beholder. What's a miracle? I mean to a nonmortal as we ascribe miracles to much we do not understand, eh?


By all means, I don't intend to start an argument about this because you are correct in that what we perceive as a miracle is merely something we don't understand. But TUB does label some of Jesus' supermaterial acts as miracles. And of course they would be miraculous too.

148:7.4 This is the first case of a miracle to be wrought by Jesus in response to the challenge of his enemies.

152:2.10 And this is the first and only nature miracle which Jesus performed as a result of his conscious preplanning.


164:3.11 This is one of the strangest of all the Master's miracles.

164:3.15 3. But Jesus had a third reason for resorting to these material means in connection with this unique transaction: This was a miracle wrought purely in obedience to his own choosing, and thereby he desired to teach his followers of that day and all subsequent ages to refrain from despising or neglecting material means in the healing of the sick.


So, any supermaterial act performed in connection to the production of the Urantia Book could be conceived as both miraculous and a miracle, if you are miracle-minded, even though somewhere there is a universe law that explains it all which none of us can understood at the current time. Some of us are happy to accept the idea of a miracle or the miraculous, others think it silly and illogical. I can understand both. One leans more toward faith, the other toward science. It all has to get balanced out somehow through philosophy, and my philosophy is that it doesn't matter how the book came about; but it does matters that it's here and how it's interpreted.

I often wondered what would have happened if the book was never released to the Commission and instead, a copy of the manuscript was found buried in a jar in the dessert or in a box in some dusty attic somewhere meant to be discovered 100 or more years later. No one would know the history behind it and everyone would be left to speculate. Scholars would read it and come up with a bunch of theories but no one would have a clue about supernatural this or supermaterial that. Would it change anything about what was written in it? No. People would still study, analyze, criticize and wonder about it. Only difference would be that it would have stayed in the hands of a few scholars and would have taken ages to get out to us regular folk. So given that, I'll take the miracle/miraculous explanation for now until I discover the universe law behind it sometime in the future.

#11 Bradly aka/fanofVan

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:11 AM

Yes Sister....my definitions are subject to dispute!! :ph34r: For while I do not believe in miracles, I am filled with wonder at the miraculous. I believe though that too many look high and low for miracles while blindly missing the wonder of our world and our life. Too many feel they are outside the Kingdom and look for it without the vision to behold It all around them. But we live IN Father's Kingdom now, physically at least, and if we but had the eyes to see and the ears to hear, ALL would be wonderous and miraculous. When I delivered my daughter in our home in 73, I can testify to witnessing a miracle....one that has occured billions of times right here if only the once for me.

I don't at all consider myself agnostic or scientific in this view but, rather, that I put no limits on God and it is the limits of all others that make Father's work appear to be miraculous to them and to us. Any who think Father rules His Kingdom by "miracles" rather than by purposeful process and laws of universe order often then seem to think that work and time are easily forsaken in lieu of "miracles" to come! Like some believe salvation comes by blood sacrifice.....an easy escape from the fetters of sin and indolence. But these are fallacies. We must learn to act as if in the Kingdom now and trust Father to operate His miracle of all creation in His way and time.

So when I say there are not miracles, it is within the context that it is ALL a miracle....which is greatest or least? The one-eyed seeker looks for miracles while those with two eyes see nothing but miracles. So it's all miracle or none IMO. But we know that law, order, pattern, and purpose deliver all such from Father's mind and are His expression of love to all children. Please do not confuse my position with humanistic material attachment as I find the material no less miraculous than the spirit....even if science may attempt their impoverished explanaitions of the miracles which surround us daily. B)
Peace be upon you."

#12 MB Melody

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:24 AM

Howard,

As for the speculated “so-called miraculous” aspects associated with the origins of the Urantia Papers, I have only mild curiousity. I suppose these hearsay evidences can become a temporary intellectual/emotional distraction or even a major stumbling block for integrated understanding of the teachings therein.

My guess is that the revelators were required (“rigorously limited by the instructions of our superiors” 101:4.2) to interact in unusual ways with the contact commission and extended group (the Forum) as a practical matter, in order to formulate and choose specific content appropriate for human evolutionary development. The questions posed by Forumites surely must have provided the revelators with valuable feedback enabling them to fine tune their presentations.

While working to minimize distracting fixation on the “miraculous”, it must have been necessary to test and confirm the relative evolutionary benefits of alternative wordings in order to “portray teachings which are not too far removed from the thought and reactions of the age in which they are presented. (92:4.1)”.

I imagine the revelators could have materialized the FER and left the papers in a clay jar in a cave, or some similar scenario, but it doesn’t seem to me that such a procedure would have been as advantageously “in touch with evolution” as the method they used with the sleeping subject and Forum.

Other than these considerations, the supposed miraculous apocrypha of origins are irrelevant, imo.

In good spirit,
MM

Edited by MB Melody, 01 January 2013 - 01:21 PM.


#13 Howard509

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

Now that I've thought more about it, I see that requiring miracles for the origin of the Urantia Papers would make them less credible as a revelation. I've long believed that the papers were spoken through the sleeping subject by his Thought Adjuster. The Bible says that in the end times, people will prophecize and dream dreams, and so it's fitting that the papers would come about through such a process.

Edited by Howard509, 15 January 2013 - 07:42 PM.

We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin





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